• Russia's Potemkin power

    From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Sun Nov 3 17:26:49 2024
    <https://mwi.westpoint.edu/russias-potemkin-army/>

    First Vlad begs covid test kits from Trump (gee, makes
    you wonder how good the russian vaccine was if they
    can't even TEST for the disease!)

    Then, goes, hat in hand, to China for help. "Here,
    Vlad, come sit on my lap...". Then, to NKorea.

    It must be humiliating to have turned his country
    into a second (third?) world power in such a short time!

    One wonders when China will start eyeing their neighbor
    to the north with the idea of acquiring some additional
    *chinese* real estate (using Russia's argument re: Ukraine
    as justification)?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Nov 3 17:39:16 2024
    On 11/3/2024 5:26 PM, Don Y wrote:
    <https://mwi.westpoint.edu/russias-potemkin-army/>

    First Vlad begs covid test kits from Trump (gee, makes
    you wonder how good the russian vaccine was if they
    can't even TEST for the disease!)

    Then, goes, hat in hand, to China for help.  "Here,
    Vlad, come sit on my lap...".  Then, to NKorea.

    And, let's not forget Iran!

    It must be humiliating to have turned his country
    into a second (third?) world power in such a short time!

    One wonders when China will start eyeing their neighbor
    to the north with the idea of acquiring some additional
    *chinese* real estate (using Russia's argument re: Ukraine
    as justification)?


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 4 00:51:32 2024
    On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:39:16 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 11/3/2024 5:26 PM, Don Y wrote:
    <https://mwi.westpoint.edu/russias-potemkin-army/>

    First Vlad begs covid test kits from Trump (gee, makes
    you wonder how good the russian vaccine was if they
    can't even TEST for the disease!)

    Then, goes, hat in hand, to China for help.  "Here,
    Vlad, come sit on my lap...".  Then, to NKorea.

    And, let's not forget Iran!

    And let's also not forget that Russia isn't fighting Ukraine alone,
    but all the countries who've supplied arms and training to Zelensky.
    IOW, an undeclared war with NATO effectively. I'd say that makes
    seeking a bit of external assistance entirely justifiiable!


    It must be humiliating to have turned his country
    into a second (third?) world power in such a short time!

    One wonders when China will start eyeing their neighbor
    to the north with the idea of acquiring some additional
    *chinese* real estate (using Russia's argument re: Ukraine
    as justification)?



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Mon Nov 4 14:53:16 2024
    On 4/11/2024 11:51 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:39:16 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 11/3/2024 5:26 PM, Don Y wrote:
    <https://mwi.westpoint.edu/russias-potemkin-army/>

    First Vlad begs covid test kits from Trump (gee, makes
    you wonder how good the russian vaccine was if they
    can't even TEST for the disease!)

    Then, goes, hat in hand, to China for help.  "Here,
    Vlad, come sit on my lap...".  Then, to NKorea.

    And, let's not forget Iran!

    And let's also not forget that Russia isn't fighting Ukraine alone,
    but all the countries who've supplied arms and training to Zelensky.
    IOW, an undeclared war with NATO effectively. I'd say that makes
    seeking a bit of external assistance entirely justifiiable!

    You would, but you are a gullible twit. More perceptive observers note
    that Russia invaded Ukraine, and NATO is merely supporting the Ukrainian efforts to repel that invasion.

    We all know why Russia invaded the Ukraine - the country was being run
    well enough by Zelensky and his ministers to highlight how corrupt and incompetent Putin's regime is.

    The best is the enemy of the good - though Putin's Russian regime
    doesn't even make it to mediocre.

    It must be humiliating to have turned his country
    into a second (third?) world power in such a short time!

    And humiliated people do lash out.

    One wonders when China will start eyeing their neighbor
    to the north with the idea of acquiring some additional
    *chinese* real estate (using Russia's argument re: Ukraine
    as justification)?

    Who would want the bits of Russia immediately adjacent to China?

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From wmartin@21:1/5 to Bill Sloman on Mon Nov 4 09:49:35 2024
    On 11/3/24 19:53, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 4/11/2024 11:51 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:39:16 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 11/3/2024 5:26 PM, Don Y wrote:
    <https://mwi.westpoint.edu/russias-potemkin-army/>

    First Vlad begs covid test kits from Trump (gee, makes
    you wonder how good the russian vaccine was if they
    can't even TEST for the disease!)

    Then, goes, hat in hand, to China for help.  "Here,
    Vlad, come sit on my lap...".  Then, to NKorea.

    And, let's not forget Iran!

    And let's also not forget that Russia isn't fighting Ukraine alone,
    but all the countries who've supplied arms and training to Zelensky.
    IOW, an undeclared war with NATO effectively. I'd say that makes
    seeking a bit of external assistance entirely justifiiable!

    You would, but you are a gullible twit. More perceptive observers note
    that Russia invaded Ukraine, and NATO is merely supporting the Ukrainian efforts to repel that invasion.

    We all know why Russia invaded the Ukraine - the country was being run
    well enough by Zelensky and his ministers to highlight how corrupt and incompetent Putin's regime is.

    The best is the enemy of the good - though Putin's Russian regime
    doesn't even make it to mediocre.

    It must be humiliating to have turned his country
    into a second (third?) world power in such a short time!

    And humiliated people do lash out.

    One wonders when China will start eyeing their neighbor
    to the north with the idea of acquiring some additional
    *chinese* real estate (using Russia's argument re: Ukraine
    as justification)?

    Who would want the bits of Russia immediately adjacent to China?

    Depends on what's in the ground, just like in Eastern Ukraine (Lithium,
    in that case). Putin doesn't give a damn if the next door neighbor makes
    him look bad, he wants the Lithium for when the world finally stops
    buying his oil.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to wmartin on Mon Nov 4 11:38:26 2024
    On Mon, 4 Nov 2024 09:49:35 -0800, wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> wrote:

    On 11/3/24 19:53, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 4/11/2024 11:51 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:39:16 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 11/3/2024 5:26 PM, Don Y wrote:
    <https://mwi.westpoint.edu/russias-potemkin-army/>

    First Vlad begs covid test kits from Trump (gee, makes
    you wonder how good the russian vaccine was if they
    can't even TEST for the disease!)

    Then, goes, hat in hand, to China for help.  "Here,
    Vlad, come sit on my lap...".  Then, to NKorea.

    And, let's not forget Iran!

    And let's also not forget that Russia isn't fighting Ukraine alone,
    but all the countries who've supplied arms and training to Zelensky.
    IOW, an undeclared war with NATO effectively. I'd say that makes
    seeking a bit of external assistance entirely justifiiable!

    You would, but you are a gullible twit. More perceptive observers note
    that Russia invaded Ukraine, and NATO is merely supporting the Ukrainian
    efforts to repel that invasion.

    We all know why Russia invaded the Ukraine - the country was being run
    well enough by Zelensky and his ministers to highlight how corrupt and
    incompetent Putin's regime is.

    The best is the enemy of the good - though Putin's Russian regime
    doesn't even make it to mediocre.

    It must be humiliating to have turned his country
    into a second (third?) world power in such a short time!

    And humiliated people do lash out.

    One wonders when China will start eyeing their neighbor
    to the north with the idea of acquiring some additional
    *chinese* real estate (using Russia's argument re: Ukraine
    as justification)?

    Who would want the bits of Russia immediately adjacent to China?

    Depends on what's in the ground, just like in Eastern Ukraine (Lithium,
    in that case). Putin doesn't give a damn if the next door neighbor makes
    him look bad, he wants the Lithium for when the world finally stops
    buying his oil.

    He really wants the Russian Empire back and he wants to be czar. He
    hates "the west."

    Like in Cuba, the dictators are happy, even eager, to push out the troublemakers, the thinkers, and leave a loyal, patriotic, poor,
    stupid population.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to wmartin on Mon Nov 4 18:30:08 2024
    On 11/4/2024 10:49 AM, wmartin wrote:
    Depends on what's in the ground, just like in Eastern Ukraine (Lithium, in that
    case). Putin doesn't give a damn if the next door neighbor makes him look bad,
    he wants the Lithium for when the world finally stops buying his oil.

    "Land" has other intangible value -- even if it just acts as a buffer
    between you and your neighbor. Look how annoyed Texans are when you
    point out that Alaska is *bigger*!

    In Vlad's case, he is whining about the diminished state of "Russia"
    after the dissolution of the USSR. The fact that all those satellite
    states chose to RID themselves of the soviet state is an insult to his personal/state pride. The fact that some would *embrace* The West,
    doubly so!

    It is telling that he has to use "convicts" and "foreign mercenaries"
    to wage his war. Along with having to beg and borrow for equipment
    and technology (doesn't speak well of your capabilities when you
    go, hat in hand, looking for MATERIAL help from others). Apparently
    russian citizens don't believe in the motherland enough to put THEIR
    lives on the line...

    [I have only 3 data points on russian life. The first, a friend who spent
    a few years, there, in various cities. I asked her of her impression of "Russia", thinking she would make some comments on the culture, etc.
    She turned up her nose and said, "everything is run down". "Were you
    staying in small 'villages' or 'historic buildings' where such a
    state could possibly be justified?" "No. Even new construction
    looked run down..."

    Some months ago, another friend came back from a short visit and
    I posed the same question and brought up the comment from my
    other friend. "Yeah, that's probably a good way to describe it.
    I was going to say 'scuzzy'..."

    A few *days* ago, I spoke with a couple who are dual citizens;
    "Why are you living here and not in Russia? You presumably had a
    good position, there, and your spouse always talks favorably of it..."
    "Big difference in standard of living. Even with our positions,
    we could never afford a home and possessions like we easily
    acquired, here."]

    So much for russia as a first world power... (not even SUPER power)

    Also note how quickly putin is to hint at using nuclear weapons.
    That suggests he KNOWS his conventional forces aren't up to the task
    (as Ukraine seems to be proving)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Tue Nov 5 12:46:17 2024
    On 5/11/2024 6:38 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 4 Nov 2024 09:49:35 -0800, wmartin <wwm@wwmartin.net> wrote:

    On 11/3/24 19:53, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 4/11/2024 11:51 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 3 Nov 2024 17:39:16 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> >>>> wrote:

    On 11/3/2024 5:26 PM, Don Y wrote:
    <https://mwi.westpoint.edu/russias-potemkin-army/>

    First Vlad begs covid test kits from Trump (gee, makes
    you wonder how good the russian vaccine was if they
    can't even TEST for the disease!)

    Then, goes, hat in hand, to China for help.  "Here,
    Vlad, come sit on my lap...".  Then, to NKorea.

    And, let's not forget Iran!

    And let's also not forget that Russia isn't fighting Ukraine alone,
    but all the countries who've supplied arms and training to Zelensky.
    IOW, an undeclared war with NATO effectively. I'd say that makes
    seeking a bit of external assistance entirely justifiiable!

    You would, but you are a gullible twit. More perceptive observers note
    that Russia invaded Ukraine, and NATO is merely supporting the Ukrainian >>> efforts to repel that invasion.

    We all know why Russia invaded the Ukraine - the country was being run
    well enough by Zelensky and his ministers to highlight how corrupt and
    incompetent Putin's regime is.

    The best is the enemy of the good - though Putin's Russian regime
    doesn't even make it to mediocre.

    It must be humiliating to have turned his country
    into a second (third?) world power in such a short time!

    And humiliated people do lash out.

    One wonders when China will start eyeing their neighbor
    to the north with the idea of acquiring some additional
    *chinese* real estate (using Russia's argument re: Ukraine
    as justification)?

    Who would want the bits of Russia immediately adjacent to China?

    Depends on what's in the ground, just like in Eastern Ukraine (Lithium,
    in that case). Putin doesn't give a damn if the next door neighbor makes
    him look bad, he wants the Lithium for when the world finally stops
    buying his oil.

    He really wants the Russian Empire back and he wants to be czar. He
    hates "the west."

    Like in Cuba, the dictators are happy, even eager, to push out the troublemakers, the thinkers, and leave a loyal, patriotic, poor,
    stupid population.

    Trump seems to have the same game plan for the US.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Nov 4 18:25:37 2024
    On Mon, 4 Nov 2024 18:30:08 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 11/4/2024 10:49 AM, wmartin wrote:
    Depends on what's in the ground, just like in Eastern Ukraine (Lithium, in that
    case). Putin doesn't give a damn if the next door neighbor makes him look bad,
    he wants the Lithium for when the world finally stops buying his oil.

    "Land" has other intangible value -- even if it just acts as a buffer
    between you and your neighbor. Look how annoyed Texans are when you
    point out that Alaska is *bigger*!

    In Vlad's case, he is whining about the diminished state of "Russia"
    after the dissolution of the USSR. The fact that all those satellite
    states chose to RID themselves of the soviet state is an insult to his >personal/state pride. The fact that some would *embrace* The West,
    doubly so!

    It is telling that he has to use "convicts" and "foreign mercenaries"
    to wage his war. Along with having to beg and borrow for equipment
    and technology (doesn't speak well of your capabilities when you
    go, hat in hand, looking for MATERIAL help from others). Apparently
    russian citizens don't believe in the motherland enough to put THEIR
    lives on the line...

    [I have only 3 data points on russian life. The first, a friend who spent
    a few years, there, in various cities. I asked her of her impression of >"Russia", thinking she would make some comments on the culture, etc.
    She turned up her nose and said, "everything is run down". "Were you
    staying in small 'villages' or 'historic buildings' where such a
    state could possibly be justified?" "No. Even new construction
    looked run down..."

    Some months ago, another friend came back from a short visit and
    I posed the same question and brought up the comment from my
    other friend. "Yeah, that's probably a good way to describe it.
    I was going to say 'scuzzy'..."

    A few *days* ago, I spoke with a couple who are dual citizens;
    "Why are you living here and not in Russia? You presumably had a
    good position, there, and your spouse always talks favorably of it..."
    "Big difference in standard of living. Even with our positions,
    we could never afford a home and possessions like we easily
    acquired, here."]

    So much for russia as a first world power... (not even SUPER power)

    Also note how quickly putin is to hint at using nuclear weapons.
    That suggests he KNOWS his conventional forces aren't up to the task
    (as Ukraine seems to be proving)

    Let's hope the military officers have been stealing parts of their
    nukes, as they have been stealing everything else.

    I worked in the USSR for a while, in a facility that was still under construction. People stole everything... "it doesn't belong to
    anybody."

    Other people just played cards all day in the basement.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)