Removal of Russian coders spurs debate about Linux kernel’s politicsrequirements' are not just a US thing.
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/10/russian-coders-removed-from-linux-maintainers-list-due-to-sanction-concerns/
Torwalds brain going the same way as ByeThen's?
quote:
There followed a number of messages questioning the legitimacy, suddenness, potentially US-forced, and non-reviewed nature of the commit, along with broader questions about the separation of open source code from international politics.
Linux creator Linus Torvalds entered the thread with, "Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about." He wrote: "It's entirely clear why the change was done" and noted that "Russian troll factories" will not revert it and that "the 'various compliance
"As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. I'm Finnish.
Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history knowledge too," Torvalds wrote before signing off.
Torvalds later wrote that he would not go into the details that kernel maintainers "were told by lawyers," and would not "start discussing legal issues with random internet people," which he suspected "are paid actors and/or have been riled up by them."
end quote
US Linux?
Betler write your own OS
Use an old Linux version, very old?
...
Multi-tasker is not that hard... did one, many have.
Get rid of all the bloat.
Got it! Ask AI to write one free of politics.
Ooops, AI invaded too..
OK, back to smoke signals for commienukatione
On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 04:12:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
Software seems to degenerate into language wars.
On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 04:12:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
Removal of Russian coders spurs debate about Linux kernel’s politics
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/10/russian-coders-removed-from-linux-maintainers-list-due-to-sanction-concerns/
Torwalds brain going the same way as ByeThen's?
quote:
There followed a number of messages questioning the legitimacy, suddenness, potentially US-forced, and non-reviewed nature of
the commit, along with broader questions about the separation of open source code from international politics.
Linux creator Linus Torvalds entered the thread with, "Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about." He wrote: "It's entirely
clear why the change was done" and noted that "Russian troll factories" will not revert it and that "the 'various compliance
requirements' are not just a US thing.
"As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains. >> I'm Finnish.
Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history
knowledge too," Torvalds wrote before signing off.
Torvalds later wrote that he would not go into the details that kernel maintainers "were told by lawyers," and would not
"start discussing legal issues with random internet people," which he suspected "are paid actors and/or have been riled up by them."
end quote
US Linux?
Betler write your own OS
Use an old Linux version, very old?
For embedded stuff, go bare metal.
...
Multi-tasker is not that hard... did one, many have.
Get rid of all the bloat.
Got it! Ask AI to write one free of politics.
Ooops, AI invaded too..
OK, back to smoke signals for commienukatione
Software seems to degenerate into language wars.
On 26/10/2024 3:01 am, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 04:12:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
<snip>
Software seems to degenerate into language wars.
Software is a much larger area than the languages used to write it.
The problem with the Russian contributions to Linux is that there's been
a least one back door slipped into Linux by a contributor, and nobody
wants any more to get in.
And to some extend it also protects Russian contributors from being the target
of being forced to add "bad things"
missed for over 15 years. Finally, we used KLEE to crosscheckpurportedly identical BUSYBOX and COREUTILS utilities, finding
On a sunny day (Fri, 25 Oct 2024 09:01:40 -0700) it happened john larkin ><JL@gct.com> wrote in <d3gnhj1v9pt3aea029c1q1lotbm7pemrv2@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 04:12:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
Removal of Russian coders spurs debate about Linux kernel’s politics
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/10/russian-coders-removed-from-linux-maintainers-list-due-to-sanction-concerns/
Torwalds brain going the same way as ByeThen's?
quote:
There followed a number of messages questioning the legitimacy, suddenness, potentially US-forced, and non-reviewed nature of
the commit, along with broader questions about the separation of open source code from international politics.
Linux creator Linus Torvalds entered the thread with, "Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about." He wrote: "It's entirely
clear why the change was done" and noted that "Russian troll factories" will not revert it and that "the 'various compliance
requirements' are not just a US thing.
"As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains.
I'm Finnish.
Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history
knowledge too," Torvalds wrote before signing off.
Torvalds later wrote that he would not go into the details that kernel maintainers "were told by lawyers," and would not
"start discussing legal issues with random internet people," which he suspected "are paid actors and/or have been riled up by them."
end quote
US Linux?
Betler write your own OS
Use an old Linux version, very old?
For embedded stuff, go bare metal.
Yep, that is what I do with Microchip PICs
...
Multi-tasker is not that hard... did one, many have.
Get rid of all the bloat.
Got it! Ask AI to write one free of politics.
Ooops, AI invaded too..
OK, back to smoke signals for commienukatione
Software seems to degenerate into language wars.
Way too many languages.. the evil started with Cplushplush.
C is cool, asm is cool too.
The rest? Sometimes I thing as there is less hardware knowledge by programmers >each of those tries to re-invent the wheel but without in depth knowledge, >resulting an a bunch of silly 'languages', that will change in every new release.
That will never be secure...
And why all that code? US got to the moon and back with less power than a Raspberry PI version 1
On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 05:55:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 25 Oct 2024 09:01:40 -0700) it happened john larkin >><JL@gct.com> wrote in <d3gnhj1v9pt3aea029c1q1lotbm7pemrv2@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 04:12:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
Removal of Russian coders spurs debate about Linux kernel’s politics
< https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/10/russian-coders-removed-from-linux-maintainers-list-due-to-sanction-concerns/>
Torwalds brain going the same way as ByeThen's?
quote:
There followed a number of messages questioning the legitimacy, suddenness, potentially US-forced, and non-reviewed nature of
the commit, along with broader questions about the separation of open source code from international politics.
Linux creator Linus Torvalds entered the thread with, "Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about." He wrote: "It's entirely
clear why the change was done" and noted that "Russian troll factories" will not revert it and that "the 'various compliance
requirements' are not just a US thing.
"As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains.
I'm Finnish.
Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history
knowledge too," Torvalds wrote before signing off.
Torvalds later wrote that he would not go into the details that kernel maintainers "were told by lawyers," and would not
"start discussing legal issues with random internet people," which he suspected "are paid actors and/or have been riled up by them."
end quote
US Linux?
Betler write your own OS
Use an old Linux version, very old?
For embedded stuff, go bare metal.
Yep, that is what I do with Microchip PICs
...
Multi-tasker is not that hard... did one, many have.
Get rid of all the bloat.
Got it! Ask AI to write one free of politics.
Ooops, AI invaded too..
OK, back to smoke signals for commienukatione
Software seems to degenerate into language wars.
Way too many languages.. the evil started with Cplushplush.
There's a web site somewhere that lists the known programming
languages and variants. I think there are about 3000.
Here is your weekend assignment:
<https://builtin.com/software-engineering-perspectives/new-programming-languages>
C is cool, asm is cool too.
The rest? Sometimes I thing as there is less hardware knowledge by programmers
each of those tries to re-invent the wheel but without in depth knowledge, >>resulting an a bunch of silly 'languages', that will change in every new release.
That will never be secure...
And why all that code? US got to the moon and back with less power than a Raspberry PI version 1
A Pi Pico has hundreds of times more compute power. Maybe thousands.
For $7.50.
It's 9000 languages. This was discussed on SED in February 2023. My
posting on the subject is "Re: dead programming languages" posted on
23 February 2023. This is the posting that went into ecosystems and
other practicalities.
On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 05:55:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
C is cool, asm is cool too.
The rest? Sometimes I thing as there is less hardware knowledge by programmers
each of those tries to re-invent the wheel but without in depth knowledge, >>resulting an a bunch of silly 'languages', that will change in every new release.
That will never be secure...
And why all that code? US got to the moon and back with less power than a Raspberry PI version 1
A Pi Pico has hundreds of times more compute power. Maybe thousands.
For $7.50.
Pi Pico is more powerful than the onboard computer. But there were
also mainframes in ground support center. Pico can perform more integer instructions per second than those mainframes, but has less memory.
And mainframes had fast mass storage (drums and a disk farm).
Raspberry PI version 1 has more memory and SD-card has more bandwidth
than several mainframe disks. OTOH I would avoid SD-card in mission
critical operations, so probably two Raspberries (two for reliablilty,
ground support mainframes also run in redundant configuration) with
external USB SSD discs...
On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 05:55:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 25 Oct 2024 09:01:40 -0700) it happened john larkin >><JL@gct.com> wrote in <d3gnhj1v9pt3aea029c1q1lotbm7pemrv2@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 04:12:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
Removal of Russian coders spurs debate about Linux kernel’s politics
https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2024/10/russian-coders-removed-from-linux-maintainers-list-due-to-sanction-concerns/
Torwalds brain going the same way as ByeThen's?
quote:
There followed a number of messages questioning the legitimacy, suddenness, potentially US-forced, and non-reviewed nature
of
the commit, along with broader questions about the separation of open source code from international politics.
Linux creator Linus Torvalds entered the thread with, "Ok, lots of Russian trolls out and about." He wrote: "It's entirely
clear why the change was done" and noted that "Russian troll factories" will not revert it and that "the 'various
compliance
requirements' are not just a US thing.
"As to sending me a revert patch - please use whatever mush you call brains.
I'm Finnish.
Did you think I'd be *supporting* Russian aggression? Apparently it's not just lack of real news, it's lack of history
knowledge too," Torvalds wrote before signing off.
Torvalds later wrote that he would not go into the details that kernel maintainers "were told by lawyers," and would not
"start discussing legal issues with random internet people," which he suspected "are paid actors and/or have been riled up
by them."
end quote
US Linux?
Betler write your own OS
Use an old Linux version, very old?
For embedded stuff, go bare metal.
Yep, that is what I do with Microchip PICs
...
Multi-tasker is not that hard... did one, many have.
Get rid of all the bloat.
Got it! Ask AI to write one free of politics.
Ooops, AI invaded too..
OK, back to smoke signals for commienukatione
Software seems to degenerate into language wars.
Way too many languages.. the evil started with Cplushplush.
There's a web site somewhere that lists the known programming
languages and variants. I think there are about 3000.
Here is your weekend assignment:
https://builtin.com/software-engineering-perspectives/new-programming-languages
C is cool, asm is cool too.
The rest? Sometimes I thing as there is less hardware knowledge by programmers
each of those tries to re-invent the wheel but without in depth knowledge, >>resulting an a bunch of silly 'languages', that will change in every new release.
That will never be secure...
And why all that code? US got to the moon and back with less power than a Raspberry PI version 1
A Pi Pico has hundreds of times more compute power. Maybe thousands.
For $7.50.
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 05:55:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
C is cool, asm is cool too.
The rest? Sometimes I thing as there is less hardware knowledge by programmers
each of those tries to re-invent the wheel but without in depth knowledge, >>>resulting an a bunch of silly 'languages', that will change in every new release.
That will never be secure...
And why all that code? US got to the moon and back with less power than a Raspberry PI version 1
A Pi Pico has hundreds of times more compute power. Maybe thousands.
For $7.50.
Pi Pico is more powerful than the onboard computer. But there were
also mainframes in ground support center. Pico can perform more integer >instructions per second than those mainframes, but has less memory.
And mainframes had fast mass storage (drums and a disk farm).
Raspberry PI version 1 has more memory and SD-card has more bandwidth
than several mainframe disks. OTOH I would avoid SD-card in mission
critical operations, so probably two Raspberries (two for reliablilty,
ground support mainframes also run in redundant configuration) with
external USB SSD discs...
On 10/26/2024 3:58 PM, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
Pi Pico is more powerful than the onboard computer. But there were
also mainframes in ground support center. Pico can perform more integer
instructions per second than those mainframes, but has less memory.
And mainframes had fast mass storage (drums and a disk farm).
Raspberry PI version 1 has more memory and SD-card has more bandwidth
than several mainframe disks. OTOH I would avoid SD-card in mission
critical operations, so probably two Raspberries (two for reliablilty,
ground support mainframes also run in redundant configuration) with
external USB SSD discs...
How long do you think any of that would RELIABLY operate in a supraterrestrial environment?
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/26/2024 3:58 PM, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
Pi Pico is more powerful than the onboard computer. But there were
also mainframes in ground support center. Pico can perform more integer >>> instructions per second than those mainframes, but has less memory.
And mainframes had fast mass storage (drums and a disk farm).
Raspberry PI version 1 has more memory and SD-card has more bandwidth
than several mainframe disks. OTOH I would avoid SD-card in mission
critical operations, so probably two Raspberries (two for reliablilty,
ground support mainframes also run in redundant configuration) with
external USB SSD discs...
How long do you think any of that would RELIABLY operate in a
supraterrestrial environment?
I do not know. Standard commercial MCU-s are used in many small
experimental low-orbit statelites, and seem to work, so they may
be enough. Certainly before lanching people into space one needs
to spend time to test and select stuff that will work well there.
On a sunny day (Sat, 26 Oct 2024 22:58:49 -0000 (UTC)) it happened antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) wrote in <vfjs77$2ao$1@paganini.bofh.team>:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 05:55:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
C is cool, asm is cool too.
The rest? Sometimes I thing as there is less hardware knowledge by >>>>programmers each of those tries to re-invent the wheel but without in >>>>depth knowledge,
resulting an a bunch of silly 'languages', that will change in every >>>>new release.
That will never be secure...
And why all that code? US got to the moon and back with less power
than a Raspberry PI version 1
A Pi Pico has hundreds of times more compute power. Maybe thousands.
For $7.50.
Pi Pico is more powerful than the onboard computer. But there were also >>mainframes in ground support center. Pico can perform more integer >>instructions per second than those mainframes, but has less memory.
And mainframes had fast mass storage (drums and a disk farm).
Raspberry PI version 1 has more memory and SD-card has more bandwidth
than several mainframe disks. OTOH I would avoid SD-card in mission >>critical operations, so probably two Raspberries (two for reliablilty, >>ground support mainframes also run in redundant configuration) with >>external USB SSD discs...
I have 2 Pi4 Raspberries, one with 4 GB RAM and one with 8 GB RAM,
each with a 4 TB Toshiba harddisk.
SDcard for the OS to boot from, on one raspi normally that Toshiba
sleeps on the other it runs 24/7 recording 6 security cams, that one has
a cooling fan.
There is Sitecom USB hub in between on each raspi, much more is
connected to those raspberries, for example RTL_SDR sticks for receiving
RF stuff, use as spectrum analyzer,
receives outside weather station, can receive stereo FM, AM, SSB.
anything from about 20 MHz to 1.6 GHz,
an audio USB stick (mike), GPS (on the raspi serial port), Huawei 4G USB stick for internet access IR camera on the GPIO, air pressure and
magnetic compass on the GPIO, more...
Been running fine for years, all on a UPS.
Have a few more older raspoberries, one also running 24/7 as server for
some stuff.
I do make backups from the SDcards to harddisk at times.
I seem to have stopped backing up to optical media as my 1000 disk box
was full,
and the PC with disk burner is mostly off these days.
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/26/2024 3:58 PM, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
Pi Pico is more powerful than the onboard computer. But there were
also mainframes in ground support center. Pico can perform more integer >>> instructions per second than those mainframes, but has less memory.
And mainframes had fast mass storage (drums and a disk farm).
Raspberry PI version 1 has more memory and SD-card has more bandwidth
than several mainframe disks. OTOH I would avoid SD-card in mission
critical operations, so probably two Raspberries (two for reliablilty,
ground support mainframes also run in redundant configuration) with
external USB SSD discs...
How long do you think any of that would RELIABLY operate in a
supraterrestrial environment?
I do not know. Standard commercial MCU-s are used in many small
experimental low-orbit statelites, and seem to work, so they may
be enough. Certainly before lanching people into space one needs
to spend time to test and select stuff that will work well there.
On 10/26/2024 2:19 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
It's 9000 languages. This was discussed on SED in February 2023. My
posting on the subject is "Re: dead programming languages" posted on
23 February 2023. This is the posting that went into ecosystems and
other practicalities.
Most languages just change the syntax of operations.
OTOH, many introduce (or, promote to first-class notions)
techniques and mechanisms that are tedious to implement
in other languages.
E.g., support for concurrency has to be added to most
languages; there are no notions of having other processes
running alongside "yours"; thus, no mechanisms for exchanging
information with them, no mechanisms to ensure competing
accesses to data are atomic, etc.
Imagine using C (or any other programming language) to
*interact* with a relational database... how many errors
would a user likely make by failing to address the issues
that SQL hides?
On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 14:45:07 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/26/2024 2:19 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
It's 9000 languages. This was discussed on SED in February 2023. My
posting on the subject is "Re: dead programming languages" posted on
23 February 2023. This is the posting that went into ecosystems and
other practicalities.
Most languages just change the syntax of operations.
OTOH, many introduce (or, promote to first-class notions)
techniques and mechanisms that are tedious to implement
in other languages.
In evolution, all's fair, even if it isn't squishy critters that are evolving.
E.g., support for concurrency has to be added to most
languages; there are no notions of having other processes
running alongside "yours"; thus, no mechanisms for exchanging
information with them, no mechanisms to ensure competing
accesses to data are atomic, etc.
Concurrency is far older than any computer language save assembly.
Hardware did concurrency before that.
In the old days, we did multiprocessing, with multiple processors
sharing a backplane with multiple processors.
In advanced cases, there would also be a memory board on one of the
backplane slots, where data used by all could be retained - the
blackboard model was common.
Later, threads were invented, this being concurrent threads of control
within the same process and thus address space. Etc.
And realtime operating systems were basically clouds of independent
but interacting finite state machines. As was the hardware being
controlled. The mapping between hardware and software FSMs needed to
be clean, or things got pretty awkward.
In none of these cases were the computer languages expected to have
any critical role in handling and implementing concurrency.
Which is good because they were not very good at concurrency.
To summarize, the software folk had no idea how hardware actually
worked, and the hardware folk didn't speak software.
Imagine using C (or any other programming language) to
*interact* with a relational database... how many errors
would a user likely make by failing to address the issues
that SQL hides?
Databases are a swamp of their own, and are far too slow and
unreliable for embedded realtime.
It's very common to use
N-dimensional hash tables for storage and access of random data. Hash
table lookup is a O[1] (constant-time ) operation that does not
degrade as data accumulates.
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 12:08:29 -0000 (UTC), antispam@fricas.org (Waldek >Hebisch) wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/26/2024 3:58 PM, Waldek Hebisch wrote:
Pi Pico is more powerful than the onboard computer. But there were
also mainframes in ground support center. Pico can perform more integer >>>> instructions per second than those mainframes, but has less memory.
And mainframes had fast mass storage (drums and a disk farm).
Raspberry PI version 1 has more memory and SD-card has more bandwidth
than several mainframe disks. OTOH I would avoid SD-card in mission
critical operations, so probably two Raspberries (two for reliablilty, >>>> ground support mainframes also run in redundant configuration) with
external USB SSD discs...
How long do you think any of that would RELIABLY operate in a
supraterrestrial environment?
I do not know. Standard commercial MCU-s are used in many small >>experimental low-orbit statelites, and seem to work, so they may
be enough. Certainly before lanching people into space one needs
to spend time to test and select stuff that will work well there.
Cubesats only last a few years, so commercial parts are often OK.
I have a friend in the small sat business. I'll ask him.
People last a lot shorter time in orbit than uPs.
On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 09:03:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 26 Oct 2024 22:58:49 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) wrote in
<vfjs77$2ao$1@paganini.bofh.team>:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 05:55:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
C is cool, asm is cool too.
The rest? Sometimes I thing as there is less hardware knowledge by >>>>>programmers each of those tries to re-invent the wheel but without in >>>>>depth knowledge,
resulting an a bunch of silly 'languages', that will change in every >>>>>new release.
That will never be secure...
And why all that code? US got to the moon and back with less power >>>>>than a Raspberry PI version 1
A Pi Pico has hundreds of times more compute power. Maybe thousands.
For $7.50.
Pi Pico is more powerful than the onboard computer. But there were also >>>mainframes in ground support center. Pico can perform more integer >>>instructions per second than those mainframes, but has less memory.
And mainframes had fast mass storage (drums and a disk farm).
Raspberry PI version 1 has more memory and SD-card has more bandwidth >>>than several mainframe disks. OTOH I would avoid SD-card in mission >>>critical operations, so probably two Raspberries (two for reliablilty, >>>ground support mainframes also run in redundant configuration) with >>>external USB SSD discs...
I have 2 Pi4 Raspberries, one with 4 GB RAM and one with 8 GB RAM,
each with a 4 TB Toshiba harddisk.
SDcard for the OS to boot from, on one raspi normally that Toshiba
sleeps on the other it runs 24/7 recording 6 security cams, that one has
a cooling fan.
There is Sitecom USB hub in between on each raspi, much more is
connected to those raspberries, for example RTL_SDR sticks for receiving
RF stuff, use as spectrum analyzer,
receives outside weather station, can receive stereo FM, AM, SSB.
anything from about 20 MHz to 1.6 GHz,
an audio USB stick (mike), GPS (on the raspi serial port), Huawei 4G USB
stick for internet access IR camera on the GPIO, air pressure and
magnetic compass on the GPIO, more...
Been running fine for years, all on a UPS.
Have a few more older raspoberries, one also running 24/7 as server for
some stuff.
I do make backups from the SDcards to harddisk at times.
I seem to have stopped backing up to optical media as my 1000 disk box
was full,
and the PC with disk burner is mostly off these days.
So it's fair to say you're no technophobe, Jan?
On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 17:34:05 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in <vfltic$hdku$2@dont-email.me>:
On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 09:03:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 26 Oct 2024 22:58:49 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
antispam@fricas.org (Waldek Hebisch) wrote in
<vfjs77$2ao$1@paganini.bofh.team>:
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 05:55:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
C is cool, asm is cool too.
The rest? Sometimes I thing as there is less hardware knowledge by >>>>>> programmers each of those tries to re-invent the wheel but without in >>>>>> depth knowledge,
resulting an a bunch of silly 'languages', that will change in every >>>>>> new release.
That will never be secure...
And why all that code? US got to the moon and back with less power >>>>>> than a Raspberry PI version 1
A Pi Pico has hundreds of times more compute power. Maybe thousands. >>>>> For $7.50.
Pi Pico is more powerful than the onboard computer. But there were also >>>> mainframes in ground support center. Pico can perform more integer
instructions per second than those mainframes, but has less memory.
And mainframes had fast mass storage (drums and a disk farm).
Raspberry PI version 1 has more memory and SD-card has more bandwidth
than several mainframe disks. OTOH I would avoid SD-card in mission
critical operations, so probably two Raspberries (two for reliablilty, >>>> ground support mainframes also run in redundant configuration) with
external USB SSD discs...
I have 2 Pi4 Raspberries, one with 4 GB RAM and one with 8 GB RAM,
each with a 4 TB Toshiba harddisk.
SDcard for the OS to boot from, on one raspi normally that Toshiba
sleeps on the other it runs 24/7 recording 6 security cams, that one has >>> a cooling fan.
There is Sitecom USB hub in between on each raspi, much more is
connected to those raspberries, for example RTL_SDR sticks for receiving >>> RF stuff, use as spectrum analyzer,
receives outside weather station, can receive stereo FM, AM, SSB.
anything from about 20 MHz to 1.6 GHz,
an audio USB stick (mike), GPS (on the raspi serial port), Huawei 4G USB >>> stick for internet access IR camera on the GPIO, air pressure and
magnetic compass on the GPIO, more...
Been running fine for years, all on a UPS.
Have a few more older raspoberries, one also running 24/7 as server for
some stuff.
I do make backups from the SDcards to harddisk at times.
I seem to have stopped backing up to optical media as my 1000 disk box
was full,
and the PC with disk burner is mostly off these days.
So it's fair to say you're no technophobe, Jan?
;-) Does not everybody have stuff like that these days?
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 05:55:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
C is cool, asm is cool too.
The rest? Sometimes I thing as there is less hardware knowledge by programmers
each of those tries to re-invent the wheel but without in depth knowledge, >>>resulting an a bunch of silly 'languages', that will change in every new release.
That will never be secure...
And why all that code? US got to the moon and back with less power than a Raspberry PI version 1
A Pi Pico has hundreds of times more compute power. Maybe thousands.
For $7.50.
Pi Pico is more powerful than the onboard computer. But there were
also mainframes in ground support center. Pico can perform more integer instructions per second than those mainframes, but has less memory.
And mainframes had fast mass storage (drums and a disk farm).
Raspberry PI version 1 has more memory and SD-card has more bandwidth
than several mainframe disks. OTOH I would avoid SD-card in mission
critical operations, so probably two Raspberries (two for reliablilty,
ground support mainframes also run in redundant configuration) with
external USB SSD discs...
On 10/26/2024 6:18 AM, Lasse Langwadt wrote:
And to some extend it also protects Russian contributors from being
the target of being forced to add "bad things"
The problem with FOSS is the naive belief that "lots of eyes"
looking at the code *will* discover errors, bugs, etc. This
is just wishful thinking.
From "KLEE: Unassisted and Automatic Generation of High-Coverage
Tests for Complex Systems Programs":
"We also used KLEE as a bug finding tool, applying it to 452
applications (over 430K total lines of code), where it found
56 serious bugs, including three in COREUTILS that had been
missed for over 15 years. Finally, we used KLEE to crosscheckpurportedly identical BUSYBOX and COREUTILS utilities, finding
functional correctness errors and a myriad of inconsistencies."
So, folks have been looking at that code for "15 years" and still
didn't notice the bugs?
The failure is in thinking that someone ELSE will have found the bugs
and taken action on correcting them.
A "bad actor's" actions are, thus, largely innoculated from discovery.
And, as there is no easy way of tracking down who/what may have
already incorporated them, no easy way to "recall" those defective products. (closed source would have such a provision as the owner
of the source will likely know which products contain which bits
of code)
On 10/26/24 20:15, Don Y wrote:
On 10/26/2024 6:18 AM, Lasse Langwadt wrote:
And to some extend it also protects Russian contributors from being the
target of being forced to add "bad things"
The problem with FOSS is the naive belief that "lots of eyes"
looking at the code *will* discover errors, bugs, etc. This
is just wishful thinking.
From "KLEE: Unassisted and Automatic Generation of High-Coverage
Tests for Complex Systems Programs":
"We also used KLEE as a bug finding tool, applying it to 452
applications (over 430K total lines of code), where it found
56 serious bugs, including three in COREUTILS that had been
missed for over 15 years. Finally, we used KLEE to crosscheckpurportedly identical BUSYBOX and COREUTILS utilities, finding
functional correctness errors and a myriad of inconsistencies." >>
So, folks have been looking at that code for "15 years" and still
didn't notice the bugs?
The failure is in thinking that someone ELSE will have found the bugs
and taken action on correcting them.
A "bad actor's" actions are, thus, largely innoculated from discovery.
And, as there is no easy way of tracking down who/what may have
already incorporated them, no easy way to "recall" those defective
products. (closed source would have such a provision as the owner
of the source will likely know which products contain which bits
of code)
have you seen some of the closed source code that has tried to go open source?
it usually fails because no one remembers what code was outright stolen, what was taken from open source and in violation of licenses, and what was bought from 3rd party with no right release, under NDA or violating patents
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