• OT: ARM makes too much noise in my view.

    From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 24 04:36:03 2024
    Report: Arm cancels Qualcomm’s architecture license, endangering its chip business
    Dispute goes back to Qualcomm's acquisition of Nuvia in 2021:
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/report-arm-cancels-qualcomms-architecture-license-endangering-its-chip-business/

    Better use Intel x86?
    Any other ?

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  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 24 07:21:15 2024
    On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 04:36:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Report: Arm cancels Qualcomm’s architecture license, endangering its chip business
    Dispute goes back to Qualcomm's acquisition of Nuvia in 2021:
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/report-arm-cancels-qualcomms-architecture-license-endangering-its-chip-business/

    Better use Intel x86?
    Any other ?

    ARM is being stupid and greedy. And advertising it.

    The new RPi chip has both ARM and RISC-V cores, two of each. There's a
    message there: an ISA isn't worth much, and ARM is being stupid and
    greedy.

    x86 is a clumsy dinosaur. The future is many-core RISC.

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  • From Uwe Bonnes@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Oct 25 22:09:17 2024
    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 24 Oct 2024 04:36:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Report: Arm cancels Qualcommâ??s architecture license, endangering its chip business
    Dispute goes back to Qualcomm's acquisition of Nuvia in 2021:
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/report-arm-cancels-qualcomms-architecture-license-endangering-its-chip-business/

    Better use Intel x86?
    Any other ?

    ARM is being stupid and greedy. And advertising it.

    The new RPi chip has both ARM and RISC-V cores, two of each. There's a message there: an ISA isn't worth much, and ARM is being stupid and
    greedy.

    x86 is a clumsy dinosaur. The future is many-core RISC.



    Arm has an enourmous debug infrastucture. Each risc implemenation
    nearly cook there own soup. A core without debug infrastructure is
    less attractive...

    --
    Uwe Bonnes bon@elektron.ikp.physik.tu-darmstadt.de

    Institut fuer Kernphysik Schlossgartenstrasse 9 64289 Darmstadt
    --------- Tel. 06151 1623569 ------- Fax. 06151 1623305 ---------

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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Uwe Bonnes on Fri Oct 25 15:52:45 2024
    On 10/25/2024 3:09 PM, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
    Arm has an enourmous debug infrastucture. Each risc implemenation
    nearly cook there own soup. A core without debug infrastructure is
    less attractive...

    They also have a boatload of predesigned/debugged IP to offer
    to their licensees. And, a broad base of developers and fabs
    already experienced, there.

    The trend is pretty obvious -- MCUs are moving more and more
    towards the market that was previously the domain of CISC CPUs.
    The needs of the ever-shortening (per unit-feature) development
    cycle make it clear that the processor has to do more for the
    developer. Witness the number of "memory protection" schemes
    that keep popping up. The more fine-grained they are (i.e.,
    don't just protect TEXT vs DATA but, rather, *me* from *you*!),
    the more advantageous to the developer.

    [Think PoLP, KISS, encapsulation, information hiding, etc.
    Even if you are the sole developer, being able to protect
    one task from the actions of another is a HUGE reduction
    in debug time: "Hmmm, why this bus error? What the hell is
    X trying to do in Y's domain??" Trust me, it is *so* much
    easier to get a finished piece of code when it is the ONLY
    thing you have to worry about!]

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  • From boB@21:1/5 to blockedofcourse@foo.invalid on Sat Oct 26 20:37:41 2024
    On Fri, 25 Oct 2024 15:52:45 -0700, Don Y
    <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    On 10/25/2024 3:09 PM, Uwe Bonnes wrote:
    Arm has an enourmous debug infrastucture. Each risc implemenation
    nearly cook there own soup. A core without debug infrastructure is
    less attractive...

    They also have a boatload of predesigned/debugged IP to offer
    to their licensees. And, a broad base of developers and fabs
    already experienced, there.

    The trend is pretty obvious -- MCUs are moving more and more
    towards the market that was previously the domain of CISC CPUs.
    The needs of the ever-shortening (per unit-feature) development
    cycle make it clear that the processor has to do more for the
    developer. Witness the number of "memory protection" schemes
    that keep popping up. The more fine-grained they are (i.e.,
    don't just protect TEXT vs DATA but, rather, *me* from *you*!),
    the more advantageous to the developer.

    [Think PoLP, KISS, encapsulation, information hiding, etc.
    Even if you are the sole developer, being able to protect
    one task from the actions of another is a HUGE reduction
    in debug time: "Hmmm, why this bus error? What the hell is
    X trying to do in Y's domain??" Trust me, it is *so* much
    easier to get a finished piece of code when it is the ONLY
    thing you have to worry about!]



    I love the ARM cores ! Especially the ST implementations and
    peripherals.

    As for noise, at least ST has a spread spectrum option for
    its PLLs if you wnt to enable those.

    boB

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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to boB on Sat Oct 26 21:15:18 2024
    On 10/26/2024 8:37 PM, boB wrote:
    I love the ARM cores ! Especially the ST implementations and
    peripherals.

    ARM is like the 8052 -- lots of offerings from a variety of
    vendors. So, you can find the features, price, support
    that you want if you shop around. You're not "stuck"
    with some proprietary device and toolchain.

    I've been successfully developing without "specific" hardware
    so I can defer selecting a particular device to allow for
    price-performance points to evolve (in my favor). Pick
    another processor family and you'd likely be locked in -- or out!

    As for noise, at least ST has a spread spectrum option for
    its PLLs if you wnt to enable those.

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  • From chrisq@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Oct 27 15:07:19 2024
    On 10/24/24 05:36, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Report: Arm cancels Qualcomm’s architecture license, endangering its chip business
    Dispute goes back to Qualcomm's acquisition of Nuvia in 2021:
    https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2024/10/report-arm-cancels-qualcomms-architecture-license-endangering-its-chip-business/

    Better use Intel x86?
    Any other ?

    Apparently, Qualcomm have abused the terms of their license, so
    what should Arm do ?. They have tried to get a resolution via
    negotiation, but Qualcomm are playing hard ball. Let the
    courts decide.

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