• Re: Interview Question (your Sunday ruined part 2)

    From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Oct 20 19:32:45 2024
    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my
    own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is
    the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 20 17:18:28 2024
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my
    own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is
    the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to jeroen@nospam.please on Sun Oct 20 11:46:50 2024
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my
    own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is
    the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Oct 20 14:59:18 2024
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my
    own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is >>> the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pimpom@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Mon Oct 21 00:39:32 2024
    On 20-10-2024 10:48 pm, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my
    own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is
    the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    R followed by a number is often used to designate values below 1. So,
    many interviewees will interpret the schematic as 0.8Ω in parallel with
    Rx. No way you can get 218 Ω between points A and B - unless you accept
    a negative resistance, in which case Rx is about -0.80295 Ω. :-)

    Jest havin' fun. Or is that really what you want to mess their heads with?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to invalid@invalid.invalid on Sun Oct 20 12:12:22 2024
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my >>>> own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is >>>> the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Sun Oct 20 11:27:47 2024
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 17:18:28 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my
    own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is
    the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    Are they allowed to use a calculator?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Oct 20 19:16:13 2024
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message >>news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions
    he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one >>>>> of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram,
    what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pimpom@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Mon Oct 21 01:18:29 2024
    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions >>>>>> he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one >>>>>> of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram,
    what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal values
    after the unit name, especially when space is limited as in a packed
    schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k *and* there's no
    chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise values like 6n8

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to Edward Rawde on Sun Oct 20 21:07:26 2024
    On 20/10/2024 7:59 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my >>>> own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is >>>> the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33



    LT Spice will happily accept 2k47 for 2470 ohms - you can even use
    0meg33 if you want for 330k in the old Soviet way

    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 20 14:22:15 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 00:39:32 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 20-10-2024 10:48 pm, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my
    own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is
    the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    R followed by a number is often used to designate values below 1. So,
    many interviewees will interpret the schematic as 0.8? in parallel with
    Rx. No way you can get 218 ? between points A and B - unless you accept
    a negative resistance, in which case Rx is about -0.80295 ?. :-)

    Jest havin' fun. Or is that really what you want to mess their heads with?

    The first thing a good intervuee should ask is "what the hell does
    R330 mean?"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 20 14:17:37 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions >>>>>>> he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one >>>>>>> of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, >>>>>>> what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal values >after the unit name, especially when space is limited as in a packed >schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k *and* there's no
    chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Oct 20 19:41:56 2024
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions >>>>>>>> he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one >>>>>>>> of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, >>>>>>>> what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal values >>after the unit name, especially when space is limited as in a packed >>schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k *and* there's no >>chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american decimal points.

    Schematic connect dots are however much bigger, as you can see from LTSpice schematics.
    I'd estimate at least ten times bigger in area. Otherwise you may not have a connection at all.


    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to piglet on Sun Oct 20 19:34:29 2024
    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:vf3ntu$i9cd$1@dont-email.me...
    On 20/10/2024 7:59 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he >>>>> likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my >>>>> own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is >>>>> the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33



    LT Spice will happily accept 2k47 for 2470 ohms - you can even use 0meg33 if you want for 330k in the old Soviet way

    The reason I try to avoid it outside locations where it's not questioned is because there's always someone who will ask what does
    2k7 mean? :)


    piglet


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to invalid@invalid.invalid on Sun Oct 20 16:45:11 2024
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:34:29 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:vf3ntu$i9cd$1@dont-email.me...
    On 20/10/2024 7:59 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he >>>>>> likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my >>>>>> own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is
    the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33



    LT Spice will happily accept 2k47 for 2470 ohms - you can even use 0meg33 if you want for 330k in the old Soviet way

    The reason I try to avoid it outside locations where it's not questioned is because there's always someone who will ask what does
    2k7 mean? :)


    piglet



    The other legacy of unreliable dots (I suppose they used to fall off
    drawings 50 years ago) is people who refuse to make a clean 4-way
    connection with one dot. They insist on using two 3-ways, two dots
    with a clumsy offset.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Oct 21 01:59:03 2024
    On 10/20/24 23:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions >>>>>>>> he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one >>>>>>>> of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, >>>>>>>> what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal values
    after the unit name, especially when space is limited as in a packed
    schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k *and* there's no
    chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?

    no but € is behind the number not in front of it like $ ;)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Oct 20 21:30:48 2024
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:kusahjhmpbnnc6scpk5354cn9qdsifje6r@4ax.com...
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 00:39:32 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 20-10-2024 10:48 pm, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my
    own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is >>> the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    R followed by a number is often used to designate values below 1. So,
    many interviewees will interpret the schematic as 0.8? in parallel with
    Rx. No way you can get 218 ? between points A and B - unless you accept
    a negative resistance, in which case Rx is about -0.80295 ?. :-)

    Jest havin' fun. Or is that really what you want to mess their heads with?

    The first thing a good intervuee should ask is "what the hell does
    R330 mean?"

    It means x is either between 1 and 46 or between 48 and 229.
    331 or greater is also possible but only allowed if other parts of the circuit have already taken everything below 330.
    Next question please.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Oct 20 21:22:26 2024
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:u75bhjt3qfd74uv8bhabnr96eih9ni15rh@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:34:29 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:vf3ntu$i9cd$1@dont-email.me...
    On 20/10/2024 7:59 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he >>>>>>> likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my >>>>>>> own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is
    the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33



    LT Spice will happily accept 2k47 for 2470 ohms - you can even use 0meg33 if you want for 330k in the old Soviet way

    The reason I try to avoid it outside locations where it's not questioned is because there's always someone who will ask what does
    2k7 mean? :)


    piglet



    The other legacy of unreliable dots (I suppose they used to fall off
    drawings 50 years ago) is people who refuse to make a clean 4-way
    connection with one dot.

    Some people call them blobs and even with a blob I've had a four-way connection misinterpreted as a crossover.

    They insist on using two 3-ways, two dots with a clumsy offset.

    It's harder to misunderstand, but no doubt some people can.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Doom on Mon Oct 21 06:09:21 2024
    On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Oct 2024 17:18:28 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in <vf3e14$g5ng$6@dont-email.me>:

    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of my
    own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, what is
    the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    No idea, that involves maaz
    As to a maaz
    question for an interview:
    When is 19 + 7 2?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to JL@gct.com on Mon Oct 21 06:10:02 2024
    ?On a sunny day (Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:17:37 -0700) it happened john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote in <risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions >>>>>>>> he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one >>>>>>>> of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, >>>>>>>> what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal values >>after the unit name, especially when space is limited as in a packed >>schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k *and* there's no >>chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better
    ---====-----
    2k2

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Oct 21 10:26:13 2024
    On 20/10/2024 19:46, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?


    It's a mistake. 330R would be common though, especially if you don't
    have an upper case omega.

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I like it. I guess it's what you're used to.

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pimpom@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Oct 21 16:32:10 2024
    On 21-10-2024 11:40 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:


    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better
    ---====-----
    2k2

    I agree about the resistor symbol, although I've gotten into the habit
    of using the Euro-style rectangle.

    I've created some dozens of component symbols for my CAD program. Here
    are those for resistors:
    https://imgur.com/1SH0jEA

    For PCB layout, I've been using my own footprints exclusively for a long
    time. Here are a few samples out of literally hundreds: https://imgur.com/PbwB9n4

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Edward Rawde on Mon Oct 21 11:57:33 2024
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking
    ones: the French ones look like commas.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Pimpom@invalid.invalid on Mon Oct 21 11:30:49 2024
    On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Oct 2024 16:32:10 +0530) it happened Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid> wrote in <TwqRO.16993$Uk1.11775@fx15.ams1>:

    On 21-10-2024 11:40 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:


    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better
    ---====-----
    2k2

    I agree about the resistor symbol, although I've gotten into the habit
    of using the Euro-style rectangle.

    I've created some dozens of component symbols for my CAD program. Here
    are those for resistors:
    https://imgur.com/1SH0jEA

    Yea, well I am converted to the European rectangles..


    For PCB layout, I've been using my own footprints exclusively for a long >time. Here are a few samples out of literally hundreds: >https://imgur.com/PbwB9n4

    Nice, even a polarity indicator for the LED
    I take it the extrusion corresponds to the long wire ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Pimpom on Mon Oct 21 13:16:27 2024
    Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 11:40 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:


    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better
    ---====-----
    2k2

    I agree about the resistor symbol, although I've gotten into the habit
    of using the Euro-style rectangle.

    I've created some dozens of component symbols for my CAD program.

    I've created my own library for Claris Works, which I use for all my
    circuit diagrams. I prefer wiggly resistors and no four-way junctions,
    but I take a mix & match approach to the various standards.

    My resistors are the old British standard.
    My electrolytic capacitors are the pre-war German standerd (with my own home-made symbol for non-polar types). The two-rectangles British
    Standard is counter-intuitive nonsense and a nightmare to draw and
    shade in.
    Resistor marking is 4k7 but, below 1k, I put in the omega symbol to
    avoid confusion.
    Capacitor marking is similar: 2u2f, 1n5f etc.
    Crossovers are indicated by a gapped line; four-way junctions are
    *never* used (the ends of the lines can be staggered at 45-degrees if necessary).

    The one symbol I have never been sure about is a battery. Apparently
    there were two different standards, one where the longer line
    represented the positive and the other where it represented the
    negative. I always indicate the polarity and the voltage alongside the
    symbol.
    e.g.
    http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/other/DualImpedanceAmplifier.gif

    I've noever had anyone complain they can't understand a drawing like
    that.

    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Mon Oct 21 12:41:17 2024
    On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Oct 2024 13:16:27 +0100) it happened liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in <1r1s41t.22p0ujldhpieN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 11:40 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:


    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better
    ---====-----
    2k2

    I agree about the resistor symbol, although I've gotten into the habit
    of using the Euro-style rectangle.

    I've created some dozens of component symbols for my CAD program.

    I've created my own library for Claris Works, which I use for all my
    circuit diagrams. I prefer wiggly resistors and no four-way junctions,
    but I take a mix & match approach to the various standards.

    My resistors are the old British standard.
    My electrolytic capacitors are the pre-war German standerd (with my own >home-made symbol for non-polar types). The two-rectangles British
    Standard is counter-intuitive nonsense and a nightmare to draw and
    shade in.
    Resistor marking is 4k7 but, below 1k, I put in the omega symbol to
    avoid confusion.
    Capacitor marking is similar: 2u2f, 1n5f etc.
    Crossovers are indicated by a gapped line; four-way junctions are
    *never* used (the ends of the lines can be staggered at 45-degrees if >necessary).

    The one symbol I have never been sure about is a battery. Apparently
    there were two different standards, one where the longer line
    represented the positive and the other where it represented the
    negative. I always indicate the polarity and the voltage alongside the >symbol.
    e.g.
    http://www.poppyrecords.co.uk/other/DualImpedanceAmplifier.gif

    I've noever had anyone complain they can't understand a drawing like
    that.

    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/raspberry_pi_dvb-s_transmitter/Raspberry_Pi_DVB-S_transmitter_circuit_diagram_IMG_3961.JPG
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/scope_tv/diagram.jpg
    whatever goes :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Del Rosso@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Mon Oct 21 09:15:38 2024
    Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions he
    likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one of
    my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram,
    what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    They should use that for interviews at Siemens corporation.


    --
    Defund the Thought Police

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Del Rosso@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Oct 21 09:27:00 2024
    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors..... --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better
    ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.


    --
    Defund the Thought Police

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-dom on Mon Oct 21 14:24:47 2024
    On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400) it happened "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote in <vf5kss$v68q$2@dont-email.me>:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better
    ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Looks better in big diagrams? (debatable I know)
    Easier to draw by hand?
    Takes less space?


    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    That is no argument, so were petrol powered cars..


    A rectangle could be anything.

    Except in a drawn circuit with an R1234 type identifier
    or some value next to it like 9k1.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Mon Oct 21 08:44:47 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:57:33 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message >news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american
    decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking
    ones: the French ones look like commas.

    Do French engineers use the same convention on their schematics?

    I can't recall ever seeing a French schematic, actually.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 21 08:51:33 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:59:03 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk>
    wrote:

    On 10/20/24 23:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions >>>>>>>>> he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one >>>>>>>>> of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, >>>>>>>>> what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal values >>> after the unit name, especially when space is limited as in a packed
    schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k *and* there's no
    chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?

    no but € is behind the number not in front of it like $ ;)


    But if it's priced in cents, the cents symbol goes last.

    We follow SI rules in engineering, but in everyday life the quirky old
    stuff is sort of fun. We measure distances in blocks or football
    fields and fluid volume in olympic-size swimming pools, or sometimes
    acre-feet.

    4k7 is not an SI unit of measure.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Oct 21 17:24:35 2024
    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:57:33 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message >news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't >> > do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american >> decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking >ones: the French ones look like commas.

    Do French engineers use the same convention on their schematics?

    I don't know, but the comma is in everyday use as a decimal point.

    I can't recall ever seeing a French schematic, actually.

    I can - and it was dreadful ! It was of a laboratory R.F. signal
    generator and they had put the earthing point in the centre with the
    various sections of the circuit radiating like the spokes of a wheel
    around it. The HT line ran around the outside.

    I don't think they do it like that nowadays.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pimpom@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Oct 21 22:09:20 2024
    On 21-10-2024 05:00 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Oct 2024 16:32:10 +0530) it happened Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid> wrote in <TwqRO.16993$Uk1.11775@fx15.ams1>:


    For PCB layout, I've been using my own footprints exclusively for a long
    time. Here are a few samples out of literally hundreds:
    https://imgur.com/PbwB9n4

    Nice, even a polarity indicator for the LED
    I take it the extrusion corresponds to the long wire ;-)

    Yep. The pad is even marked A, the other K; too small to be seen in the
    static image. I have several other footprints for LEDs in different
    sizes and orientations.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Oct 21 17:24:36 2024
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400) it happened "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote in <vf5kss$v68q$2@dont-email.me>:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better
    ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Looks better in big diagrams? (debatable I know)
    Easier to draw by hand?
    Takes less space?


    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    That is no argument, so were petrol powered cars..


    A rectangle could be anything.

    Except in a drawn circuit with an R1234 type identifier
    or some value next to it like 9k1.

    But you then have to read the identifier before you know what the
    component is. The whole point of a symbol is that it is symbolic, so
    you can scan over a circuit and see the general outlay without having to
    read what every component is.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to Clive Arthur on Mon Oct 21 12:45:13 2024
    "Clive Arthur" <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote in message news:vf56no$sn03$1@dont-email.me...
    On 20/10/2024 19:46, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?


    It's a mistake. 330R would be common though, especially if you don't have an upper case omega.

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I like it. I guess it's what you're used to.

    I never thought anything of it, and liked it, until I first went to the USA and someone asked what my strange resistor values meant.
    Since things are becoming more global I try to avoid it now.

    I don't like rectangles for resistors, that looks awful, and don't get me started on IEC logic symbols.


    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Oct 21 17:55:10 2024
    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:59:03 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk>
    wrote:

    On 10/20/24 23:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions >>>>>>>>> he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose one
    of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, >>>>>>>>> what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal values >>> after the unit name, especially when space is limited as in a packed
    schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k *and* there's no >>> chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?

    no but € is behind the number not in front of it like $ ;)


    But if it's priced in cents, the cents symbol goes last.

    We follow SI rules in engineering, but in everyday life the quirky old
    stuff is sort of fun. We measure distances in blocks or football
    fields and fluid volume in olympic-size swimming pools, or sometimes acre-feet.

    4k7 is not an SI unit of measure.

    ...or even measurement?

    I once heard the BBC's ' Environment Analyst' describe air pressure in
    Degrees Centigrade.



    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pimpom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Oct 21 22:29:37 2024
    On 21-10-2024 09:21 pm, john larkin wrote:

    We follow SI rules in engineering, but in everyday life the quirky old
    stuff is sort of fun. We measure distances in blocks or football
    fields and fluid volume in olympic-size swimming pools, or sometimes acre-feet.


    You use your states as units too. I wonder how many Americans actually
    know how big "half the size of Oregon" is. :)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Reinhard Zwirner@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Mon Oct 21 19:22:36 2024
    Liz Tuddenham schrieb:

    [...]
    But you then have to read the identifier before you know what the
    component is. The whole point of a symbol is that it is symbolic, so
    you can scan over a circuit and see the general outlay without having to
    read what every component is.

    That's just sort of "used to" ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Oct 21 18:55:24 2024
    On 21/10/2024 16:44, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:57:33 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't >>>> do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american >>> decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking
    ones: the French ones look like commas.

    Do French engineers use the same convention on their schematics?

    I can't recall ever seeing a French schematic, actually.

    Not a schematic, but many years (ok, decades) ago I was working in
    France and was surprised when a programmer interpreted a comma in my
    code as a decimal point. It was Forth code, and the comma in fact
    represented a double (32 bit) number. Lots of confusion. Kesker-say,
    nespar, un petit d'un petit s'étonne aux Halles and so on.

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to Clive Arthur on Mon Oct 21 14:26:23 2024
    "Clive Arthur" <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote in message news:vf64id$11p69$1@dont-email.me...
    On 21/10/2024 16:44, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:57:33 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't >>>>> do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american >>>> decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking
    ones: the French ones look like commas.

    Do French engineers use the same convention on their schematics?

    I can't recall ever seeing a French schematic, actually.

    Not a schematic, but many years (ok, decades) ago I was working in France and was surprised when a programmer interpreted a comma
    in my code as a decimal point. It was Forth code, and the comma in fact represented a double (32 bit) number. Lots of confusion.
    Kesker-say, nespar, un petit d'un petit s'étonne aux Halles and so on.

    Ah Mots d'Heures: Gousses, Rames.
    I forget when I first came across that.


    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Mon Oct 21 12:27:13 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:24:35 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:57:33 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't >> >> > do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american >> >> decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking
    ones: the French ones look like commas.

    Do French engineers use the same convention on their schematics?

    I don't know, but the comma is in everyday use as a decimal point.

    I can't recall ever seeing a French schematic, actually.

    I can - and it was dreadful ! It was of a laboratory R.F. signal
    generator and they had put the earthing point in the centre with the
    various sections of the circuit radiating like the spokes of a wheel
    around it. The HT line ran around the outside.

    I don't think they do it like that nowadays.

    There are people, even gigabuck organizations, who are obsessed with single-point grounding.

    That gets crazy fast.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Oct 21 15:31:45 2024
    "john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:jgadhjl2uj77q3gdls2tfjrdu5qe8j9vgp@4ax.com...
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:24:35 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:57:33 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't >>> >> > do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american >>> >> decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking
    ones: the French ones look like commas.

    Do French engineers use the same convention on their schematics?

    I don't know, but the comma is in everyday use as a decimal point.

    I can't recall ever seeing a French schematic, actually.

    I can - and it was dreadful ! It was of a laboratory R.F. signal
    generator and they had put the earthing point in the centre with the >>various sections of the circuit radiating like the spokes of a wheel
    around it. The HT line ran around the outside.

    I don't think they do it like that nowadays.

    There are people, even gigabuck organizations, who are obsessed with single-point grounding.

    Decoupling capacitors such as 0.1uF everywhere can also be an obsession.
    Remove them from many (not all) circuits with no change in performance.


    That gets crazy fast.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Pimpom on Mon Oct 21 19:48:15 2024
    Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    On 21-10-2024 09:21 pm, john larkin wrote:

    We follow SI rules in engineering, but in everyday life the quirky old
    stuff is sort of fun. We measure distances in blocks or football
    fields and fluid volume in olympic-size swimming pools, or sometimes
    acre-feet.


    You use your states as units too. I wonder how many Americans actually
    know how big "half the size of Oregon" is. :)


    Bigger than a bread box, for sure. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 21 13:17:56 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 22:29:37 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 09:21 pm, john larkin wrote:

    We follow SI rules in engineering, but in everyday life the quirky old
    stuff is sort of fun. We measure distances in blocks or football
    fields and fluid volume in olympic-size swimming pools, or sometimes
    acre-feet.


    You use your states as units too. I wonder how many Americans actually
    know how big "half the size of Oregon" is. :)

    A pizza is a unit of area, but they tend to not be constants.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Tue Oct 22 10:50:32 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 18:55:24 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/10/2024 16:44, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:57:33 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't >>>>> do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american >>>> decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking
    ones: the French ones look like commas.

    Do French engineers use the same convention on their schematics?

    I can't recall ever seeing a French schematic, actually.

    Not a schematic, but many years (ok, decades) ago I was working in
    France and was surprised when a programmer interpreted a comma in my
    code as a decimal point. It was Forth code, and the comma in fact >represented a double (32 bit) number. Lots of confusion. Kesker-say, >nespar, un petit d'un petit s'étonne aux Halles and so on.

    Good point. Do the French use the same compilers as we do? The
    comma/decimal point thing could get tricky. On web pages too.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to invalid@invalid.invalid on Tue Oct 22 10:48:01 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 15:31:45 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:jgadhjl2uj77q3gdls2tfjrdu5qe8j9vgp@4ax.com...
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:24:35 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:57:33 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american
    decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking >>>> >ones: the French ones look like commas.

    Do French engineers use the same convention on their schematics?

    I don't know, but the comma is in everyday use as a decimal point.

    I can't recall ever seeing a French schematic, actually.

    I can - and it was dreadful ! It was of a laboratory R.F. signal >>>generator and they had put the earthing point in the centre with the >>>various sections of the circuit radiating like the spokes of a wheel >>>around it. The HT line ran around the outside.

    I don't think they do it like that nowadays.

    There are people, even gigabuck organizations, who are obsessed with
    single-point grounding.

    Decoupling capacitors such as 0.1uF everywhere can also be an obsession. >Remove them from many (not all) circuits with no change in performance.


    I knew one guy that claimed that bypass caps weren't necessary on
    multilayer boards. His stuff worked.

    Most electronics is way over-bypassed. Every data sheet assumes that
    their part is the center of the universe and deserves a string of
    stepped-value bypass caps on every supply.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Tue Oct 22 10:55:56 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:24:36 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400) it happened "Tom Del Rosso" >> <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote in
    <vf5kss$v68q$2@dont-email.me>:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better
    ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Looks better in big diagrams? (debatable I know)
    Easier to draw by hand?
    Takes less space?


    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    That is no argument, so were petrol powered cars..


    A rectangle could be anything.

    Except in a drawn circuit with an R1234 type identifier
    or some value next to it like 9k1.

    But you then have to read the identifier before you know what the
    component is. The whole point of a symbol is that it is symbolic, so
    you can scan over a circuit and see the general outlay without having to
    read what every component is.

    The wiggle thing is more obviously a resistor on a whiteboard.

    More fun to draw too.

    I had a medical event that, for some bizarre reason, wrecked the look
    of my hand-drawn schematics. It was awful. It fixed itself in a month
    or two.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jl@glen--canyon.com on Wed Oct 23 04:22:16 2024
    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Oct 2024 10:48:01 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <b2pfhjl4hbd1013mp1bkamudjm948jl7qb@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 15:31:45 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:jgadhjl2uj77q3gdls2tfjrdu5qe8j9vgp@4ax.com...
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:24:35 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:57:33 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the >>>>> >> > floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american
    decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking >>>>> >ones: the French ones look like commas.

    Do French engineers use the same convention on their schematics?

    I don't know, but the comma is in everyday use as a decimal point.

    I can't recall ever seeing a French schematic, actually.

    I can - and it was dreadful ! It was of a laboratory R.F. signal >>>>generator and they had put the earthing point in the centre with the >>>>various sections of the circuit radiating like the spokes of a wheel >>>>around it. The HT line ran around the outside.

    I don't think they do it like that nowadays.

    There are people, even gigabuck organizations, who are obsessed with
    single-point grounding.

    Decoupling capacitors such as 0.1uF everywhere can also be an obsession. >>Remove them from many (not all) circuits with no change in performance.


    I knew one guy that claimed that bypass caps weren't necessary on
    multilayer boards. His stuff worked.

    Most electronics is way over-bypassed. Every data sheet assumes that
    their part is the center of the universe and deserves a string of >stepped-value bypass caps on every supply.

    I have also read about a case where they left out some bypass caps
    and then those boards caused big troubles.
    https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/630354/what-may-happen-if-i-leave-out-bypass-capacitors
    Be very careful, it may work once (leaving them out),
    but your products may fail..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 23 08:18:27 2024
    On Wed, 23 Oct 2024 04:22:16 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 22 Oct 2024 10:48:01 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <b2pfhjl4hbd1013mp1bkamudjm948jl7qb@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 15:31:45 -0400, "Edward Rawde" >><invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:jgadhjl2uj77q3gdls2tfjrdu5qe8j9vgp@4ax.com...
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:24:35 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 11:57:33 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid >>>>>> (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:risahjpn2kfue87dqm6t2461a966ncv9in@4ax.com...

    [...] > >
    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the >>>>>> >> > floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots don't
    do that.

    I wasn't aware that there was a difference between European and american
    decimal points.

    There is a difference between English-speking ones and French-speaking >>>>>> >ones: the French ones look like commas.

    Do French engineers use the same convention on their schematics?

    I don't know, but the comma is in everyday use as a decimal point.

    I can't recall ever seeing a French schematic, actually.

    I can - and it was dreadful ! It was of a laboratory R.F. signal >>>>>generator and they had put the earthing point in the centre with the >>>>>various sections of the circuit radiating like the spokes of a wheel >>>>>around it. The HT line ran around the outside.

    I don't think they do it like that nowadays.

    There are people, even gigabuck organizations, who are obsessed with
    single-point grounding.

    Decoupling capacitors such as 0.1uF everywhere can also be an obsession. >>>Remove them from many (not all) circuits with no change in performance.


    I knew one guy that claimed that bypass caps weren't necessary on >>multilayer boards. His stuff worked.

    Most electronics is way over-bypassed. Every data sheet assumes that
    their part is the center of the universe and deserves a string of >>stepped-value bypass caps on every supply.

    I have also read about a case where they left out some bypass caps
    and then those boards caused big troubles.
    https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/630354/what-may-happen-if-i-leave-out-bypass-capacitors
    Be very careful, it may work once (leaving them out),
    but your products may fail..

    Some fast parts, like CPUs and FPGAs, have substantial internal bypass
    caps. I've measured as much as 1 uF on the core power of an FPGA, and
    numbers like 100n on aux supplies. It seemed to be on-chip,
    monolithic.

    I wonder if DRAMs chips typically have internal bypass caps. Somebody
    here could measure a few.

    It's worth measuring a chip, to help plan bypassing. Some ugly Intel
    CPU may need sheer joules of chunky caps for wakeup power surges.

    I've done TDR experiments on multilayer boards. A proper power pour
    looks like a perfect cap, and adding more caps, anywhere on the pour,
    just makes it look like a bigger perfect cap.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Platt@21:1/5 to alien@comet.invalid on Wed Oct 23 15:40:49 2024
    In article <vf9tlo$190gj$1@solani.org>,
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    I have also read about a case where they left out some bypass caps
    and then those boards caused big troubles.
    https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/630354/what-may-happen-if-i-leave-out-bypass-capacitors
    Be very careful, it may work once (leaving them out),
    but your products may fail..

    I had that problem, years ago, with an Ethernet card made by Boca. It
    used one of the AMD "Lance" (PCNet) Ethernet chips, which was normally
    a really stellar performer. Boca cheaped out and eliminated several
    of what AMD said were important bypass caps, including the "critically important" bypass near the chip's PHY power pins.

    The card ended up being pattern-sensitive - packets with certain
    data patterns apparently caused some sort of resonant ground-
    or power-bounce in the PHY circuit, resulting in bit errors and frame-check-sequence-mismatch packet drops. TCP streams
    which tried to receive packets with those byte patterns would
    just freeze up forever.

    Boca failed to fix the card I sent back to them... their
    blue-wire kluge didn't work.

    I've never bought another Boca product.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Sat Oct 26 13:34:44 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:55:10 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:59:03 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 23:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary
    questions he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd
    like to propose one of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this
    diagram, what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal
    values after the unit name, especially when space is limited as in
    a packed schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k
    *and* there's no chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise
    values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots
    don't do that.

    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?

    no but € is behind the number not in front of it like $ ;)


    But if it's priced in cents, the cents symbol goes last.

    We follow SI rules in engineering, but in everyday life the quirky old
    stuff is sort of fun. We measure distances in blocks or football fields
    and fluid volume in olympic-size swimming pools, or sometimes
    acre-feet.

    4k7 is not an SI unit of measure.

    ...or even measurement?

    I once heard the BBC's ' Environment Analyst' describe air pressure in Degrees Centigrade.

    That's what happens in organisations like the BBC where capability in a
    given field comes a poor second to racial and gender recruiting quotas.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to Tom Del Rosso on Sat Oct 26 13:48:00 2024
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it
    represented a cocktail sausage.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Oct 26 13:54:04 2024
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 16:45:11 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:34:29 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>news:vf3ntu$i9cd$1@dont-email.me...
    On 20/10/2024 7:59 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions >>>>>>> he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose >>>>>>> one of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, >>>>>>> what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33



    LT Spice will happily accept 2k47 for 2470 ohms - you can even use
    0meg33 if you want for 330k in the old Soviet way

    The reason I try to avoid it outside locations where it's not questioned
    is because there's always someone who will ask what does 2k7 mean? :)


    piglet



    The other legacy of unreliable dots (I suppose they used to fall off
    drawings 50 years ago) is people who refuse to make a clean 4-way
    connection with one dot. They insist on using two 3-ways, two dots with
    a clumsy offset.

    The British and American dots have always been fine. The German ones used
    to be very reliable, too - until they pooled their symbols with countries
    like Ireland, Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Oct 27 01:58:30 2024
    On 27/10/2024 12:48 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it
    represented a cocktail sausage.

    But you also think that atmospheric CO2 levels haven't risen since 1890's.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Oct 27 01:55:38 2024
    On 27/10/2024 12:34 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:55:10 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:59:03 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 23:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:

    <snip>

    I once heard the BBC's ' Environment Analyst' describe air pressure in
    Degrees Centigrade.

    That's what happens in organisations like the BBC where capability in a
    given field comes a poor second to racial and gender recruiting quotas.

    Twaddle. The English have never regarded literacy in science as any kind
    of cultural necessity.

    They wouldn't recruit the anybody with explicit scientific training
    because they had had that training - scientists are on tap, not on top.

    You own bizarre ideas about global warming are all too representative of
    the UK attitude. You know very little about the subject, but still think
    that you can read the literature and form your own opinion, which you
    imagine to be quite as valid as the opinions of people who know quite a
    bit more.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Sat Oct 26 08:12:39 2024
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:34:44 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:55:10 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:59:03 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 23:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary
    questions he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd
    like to propose one of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this
    diagram, what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal
    values after the unit name, especially when space is limited as in
    a packed schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k
    *and* there's no chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise
    values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots
    don't do that.

    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?

    no but ? is behind the number not in front of it like $ ;)


    But if it's priced in cents, the cents symbol goes last.

    We follow SI rules in engineering, but in everyday life the quirky old
    stuff is sort of fun. We measure distances in blocks or football fields
    and fluid volume in olympic-size swimming pools, or sometimes
    acre-feet.

    4k7 is not an SI unit of measure.

    ...or even measurement?

    I once heard the BBC's ' Environment Analyst' describe air pressure in
    Degrees Centigrade.

    That's what happens in organisations like the BBC where capability in a
    given field comes a poor second to racial and gender recruiting quotas.

    What can you expect from a country that has a House of Twits?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Sat Oct 26 08:16:19 2024
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it
    represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the
    lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Sat Oct 26 08:22:11 2024
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:54:04 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 16:45:11 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:34:29 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>>news:vf3ntu$i9cd$1@dont-email.me...
    On 20/10/2024 7:59 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions >>>>>>>> he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose >>>>>>>> one of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, >>>>>>>> what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33



    LT Spice will happily accept 2k47 for 2470 ohms - you can even use
    0meg33 if you want for 330k in the old Soviet way

    The reason I try to avoid it outside locations where it's not questioned >>>is because there's always someone who will ask what does 2k7 mean? :)


    piglet



    The other legacy of unreliable dots (I suppose they used to fall off
    drawings 50 years ago) is people who refuse to make a clean 4-way
    connection with one dot. They insist on using two 3-ways, two dots with
    a clumsy offset.

    The British and American dots have always been fine. The German ones used
    to be very reliable, too - until they pooled their symbols with countries >like Ireland, Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal.

    Does good food go with bad electronics?

    I guess not. Russia has bad food and bad electronics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sat Oct 26 18:00:00 2024
    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:55:10 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:59:03 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 23:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary
    questions he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd
    like to propose one of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this
    diagram, what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal
    values after the unit name, especially when space is limited as in
    a packed schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k
    *and* there's no chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise
    values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots
    don't do that.

    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?

    no but € is behind the number not in front of it like $ ;)


    But if it's priced in cents, the cents symbol goes last.

    We follow SI rules in engineering, but in everyday life the quirky old
    stuff is sort of fun. We measure distances in blocks or football fields
    and fluid volume in olympic-size swimming pools, or sometimes
    acre-feet.

    4k7 is not an SI unit of measure.

    ...or even measurement?

    I once heard the BBC's ' Environment Analyst' describe air pressure in Degrees Centigrade.

    That's what happens in organisations like the BBC where capability in a
    given field comes a poor second to racial and gender recruiting quotas.

    A degree in journalism seems to be the only qualification you need to be
    a BBC 'expert'. If you have a Scottish accent or have connections with
    Africa, that guarantees you will be selected.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Oct 26 21:41:34 2024
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:12:39 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:34:44 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:55:10 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:59:03 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk>
    wrote:

    On 10/20/24 23:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom
    <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary
    questions he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd
    like to propose one of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this
    diagram, what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal
    values after the unit name, especially when space is limited as
    in a packed schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k
    *and* there's no chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise
    values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the
    floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots
    don't do that.

    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?

    no but ? is behind the number not in front of it like $ ;)


    But if it's priced in cents, the cents symbol goes last.

    We follow SI rules in engineering, but in everyday life the quirky
    old stuff is sort of fun. We measure distances in blocks or football
    fields and fluid volume in olympic-size swimming pools, or sometimes
    acre-feet.

    4k7 is not an SI unit of measure.

    ...or even measurement?

    I once heard the BBC's ' Environment Analyst' describe air pressure in
    Degrees Centigrade.

    That's what happens in organisations like the BBC where capability in a >>given field comes a poor second to racial and gender recruiting quotas.

    What can you expect from a country that has a House of Twits?

    Well, they have one now, but it was not always thus.
    The original House of Lords (as constituted for around 700 years) was a genuinely respectable institution. Those who were elevated to the peerage
    were required to submit to the doctrine of Noblesse oblige and so to put
    the interests of the lower orders above their own. Sadly, that's all gone
    by the wayside over the last 150 years or so and now there is but a cohort
    of grifters who have taken over this once noble House. Sad but true.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Oct 26 21:47:43 2024
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:16:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it >>represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    I did wonder what they were for, but lacked the confidence to ask about
    them. Thanks, John.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Sat Oct 26 15:24:02 2024
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:47:43 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:16:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it >>>represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the
    lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    I did wonder what they were for, but lacked the confidence to ask about
    them. Thanks, John.

    I just got a pack of this

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DKLAJ6

    With the right pencil, it does great line work and photographs well.
    Erases nicely too.

    It doesn't have a grid, but it's translucent so I lay it on top of a
    sheet of blue-grid paler and I can follow the lines when I draw.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Oct 27 15:12:51 2024
    On 27/10/2024 8:41 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:12:39 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:34:44 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 17:55:10 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:59:03 +0200, Lasse Langwadt <llc@fonz.dk>
    wrote:

    On 10/20/24 23:17, john larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 01:18:29 +0530, Pimpom
    <Pimpom@invalid.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 21-10-2024 12:46 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 12:12:22 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 14:59:18 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary >>>>>>>>>>>>>> questions he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd >>>>>>>>>>>>>> like to propose one of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> diagram, what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33


    Unless you believe in physics/SI notation.

    So is R330 the reference designator?

    Sorry, foreign notation. It's 330 ohms and 47 ohms.

    Thought so.
    Personally, I sometimes use the European style of placing decimal >>>>>>>> values after the unit name, especially when space is limited as >>>>>>>> in a packed schematic. 4k7 takes up slightly less space than 4.7k >>>>>>>> *and* there's no chance of missing the decimal point. Likewise >>>>>>>> values like 6n8

    Maybe european decimal points slide off drawings and fall on the >>>>>>> floor. Robust American decimal points and schematic connect dots >>>>>>> don't do that.

    How are things priced in a grocery store? Is the 'euros' symbol
    straddled by numbers on both sides?

    no but ? is behind the number not in front of it like $ ;)


    But if it's priced in cents, the cents symbol goes last.

    We follow SI rules in engineering, but in everyday life the quirky
    old stuff is sort of fun. We measure distances in blocks or football >>>>> fields and fluid volume in olympic-size swimming pools, or sometimes >>>>> acre-feet.

    4k7 is not an SI unit of measure.

    ...or even measurement?

    I once heard the BBC's ' Environment Analyst' describe air pressure in >>>> Degrees Centigrade.

    That's what happens in organisations like the BBC where capability in a
    given field comes a poor second to racial and gender recruiting quotas.

    What can you expect from a country that has a House of Twits?

    Well, they have one now, but it was not always thus.
    The original House of Lords (as constituted for around 700 years) was a genuinely respectable institution. Those who were elevated to the peerage were required to submit to the doctrine of Noblesse oblige and so to put
    the interests of the lower orders above their own. Sadly, that's all gone
    by the wayside over the last 150 years or so and now there is but a cohort
    of grifters who have taken over this once noble House. Sad but true.

    Sad if it were true. In reality the House of Lords is now dominated by
    life peers, who get promoted after a life-time devoted to exhibiting exceptional competence. There have been scandals about people buying
    their peerage, but people with that kind of money and power are less
    interested in becoming life peers than they were in getting a heritable
    honour. If Boris Johnson hasn't been caught trying to sell one, there
    clearly isn't the market there used to be.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Oct 27 15:27:15 2024
    On 27/10/2024 9:24 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:47:43 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:16:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it
    represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the
    lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    I did wonder what they were for, but lacked the confidence to ask about
    them. Thanks, John.

    I just got a pack of this

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DKLAJ6

    With the right pencil, it does great line work and photographs well.
    Erases nicely too.

    It doesn't have a grid, but it's translucent so I lay it on top of a
    sheet of blue-grid paler and I can follow the lines when I draw.

    So somebody has made a grade of paper that works as well as the Mylar
    drafting film that I used back in the days when we still drew circuit
    diagram with pencils on a drawing board.

    It's kind of tedious to simulate that kind of schematic, and you get transcription errors.

    I got very fond of finding my drop-offs by simulating the circuit after
    I'd made changes.

    And getting the computer to pull out the parts list, made making up a
    bill of material a lot less tedious and a lot less error-prone.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Oct 27 15:34:21 2024
    On 27/10/2024 2:22 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:54:04 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 16:45:11 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:34:29 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:vf3ntu$i9cd$1@dont-email.me...
    On 20/10/2024 7:59 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message
    news:2rjahj1m5itht9k5nlh5p9q11onumbbb5s@4ax.com...
    On Sun, 20 Oct 2024 19:32:45 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 10/20/24 19:18, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    John Larkin has from time to time posted some elementary questions >>>>>>>>> he likes to torture his job applicants with. I'd like to propose >>>>>>>>> one of my own.

    If I'm measuring 218 ohms between points A and B in this diagram, >>>>>>>>> what is the value of Rx?

    https://disk.yandex.com/i/hxjWx0tDUCzxiA

    517 Ohms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Does R330 mean 0.33 ohms?

    I hate that sort of notation, like 2k47.

    I keep having difficulty not using it in LTSpice.

    0.33 ohms would be 0R33



    LT Spice will happily accept 2k47 for 2470 ohms - you can even use
    0meg33 if you want for 330k in the old Soviet way

    The reason I try to avoid it outside locations where it's not questioned >>>> is because there's always someone who will ask what does 2k7 mean? :)


    piglet



    The other legacy of unreliable dots (I suppose they used to fall off
    drawings 50 years ago) is people who refuse to make a clean 4-way
    connection with one dot. They insist on using two 3-ways, two dots with
    a clumsy offset.

    The British and American dots have always been fine. The German ones used
    to be very reliable, too - until they pooled their symbols with countries
    like Ireland, Italy, Spain, Greece and Portugal.

    Does good food go with bad electronics?

    I guess not. Russia has bad food and bad electronics.

    France has great food, as I got to find out when Cambridge Instruments
    bought Thompson-CSF's shaped-beam electron beam microfabricator, whose electronics were dire.

    We were sold it as a pre-production prototype, and it turned out to be a
    proof of principle machine.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Oct 27 07:41:45 2024
    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    [...]
    The original House of Lords (as constituted for around 700 years) was a genuinely respectable institution. Those who were elevated to the peerage were required to submit to the doctrine of Noblesse oblige and so to put
    the interests of the lower orders above their own. Sadly, that's all gone
    by the wayside over the last 150 years or so and now there is but a cohort
    of grifters who have taken over this once noble House. Sad but true.

    At least one 'bought' her peerage by publishing a 'scientific' paper
    full of lies and fake statistics to support the then government's
    persecution of trangender people. The British Medical Association is investigating it - I hope they strip her of her medical degree which she
    has prostituted for her own personal greed.

    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to fdBill Sloman on Sun Oct 27 07:53:07 2024
    fdBill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    [...]
    So somebody has made a grade of paper that works as well as the Mylar drafting film that I used back in the days when we still drew circuit
    diagram with pencils on a drawing board.

    I wonder if anyone else has experienced the 'Looking Glass' phenomenon
    which I used to get?

    I often had to lay out a printed circuit board on translucent paper and
    work from either side. After working for a few days on the mirror-image
    side, with all the text reversed, I found it became so natural that
    returning to the right-way-around World was very difficult. That
    transition was far more difficult than adapting to the
    looking-glass-World had been in the first place.

    I attribute it to being left-handed (and have also noticed that I dream left-right reversed).


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Oct 27 09:11:37 2024
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 15:24:02 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:47:43 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:16:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it >>>>represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the
    lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    I did wonder what they were for, but lacked the confidence to ask about >>them. Thanks, John.

    I just got a pack of this

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DKLAJ6

    With the right pencil, it does great line work and photographs well.
    Erases nicely too.

    It doesn't have a grid, but it's translucent so I lay it on top of a
    sheet of blue-grid paler and I can follow the lines when I draw.

    And these are a positive boon for those of us tired of trying to find
    European dots that have fallen on the floor:

    https://tinyurl.com/2972vu7c

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Sun Oct 27 10:37:19 2024
    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 09:11:37 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 15:24:02 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:47:43 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:16:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it >>>>>represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the
    lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    I did wonder what they were for, but lacked the confidence to ask about >>>them. Thanks, John.

    I just got a pack of this

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DKLAJ6

    With the right pencil, it does great line work and photographs well.
    Erases nicely too.

    It doesn't have a grid, but it's translucent so I lay it on top of a
    sheet of blue-grid paler and I can follow the lines when I draw.

    And these are a positive boon for those of us tired of trying to find >European dots that have fallen on the floor:

    https://tinyurl.com/2972vu7c

    I sometimes draw a schemetic by taping parts pictures to a sheet of
    D-size vellum and drawing in the rest. I photograph that and give it
    to one of my guys to enter into PADS Logic and eventually do a PCB
    layout.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dxxtokrqe2cvcw6ldf5kd/B943_Sh_11.jpg?rlkey=asfyswunc5jbni5sugg3ix6f4&raw=1

    That's scads faster than doing the CAD entry myself. More moving
    around, less sitting and clicking.

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Oct 27 18:04:45 2024
    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 09:11:37 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 15:24:02 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:47:43 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:16:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it >>>>>>represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the
    lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    I did wonder what they were for, but lacked the confidence to ask
    about them. Thanks, John.

    I just got a pack of this

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DKLAJ6

    With the right pencil, it does great line work and photographs well.
    Erases nicely too.

    It doesn't have a grid, but it's translucent so I lay it on top of a
    sheet of blue-grid paler and I can follow the lines when I draw.

    And these are a positive boon for those of us tired of trying to find >>European dots that have fallen on the floor:

    https://tinyurl.com/2972vu7c

    I sometimes draw a schemetic by taping parts pictures to a sheet of
    D-size vellum and drawing in the rest. I photograph that and give it to
    one of my guys to enter into PADS Logic and eventually do a PCB layout.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dxxtokrqe2cvcw6ldf5kd/B943_Sh_11.jpg?
    rlkey=asfyswunc5jbni5sugg3ix6f4&raw=1

    That's scads faster than doing the CAD entry myself. More moving around,
    less sitting and clicking.

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    That physical exercise and fresh air probably will give a bit of a brain
    boost to get the old grey cells firing at full efficiency. To turbocharge
    that effect, give the guys plenty of strong coffee and donuts before they
    go out. Works for me!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Sun Oct 27 11:26:43 2024
    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 18:04:45 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 09:11:37 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 15:24:02 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:47:43 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:16:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it >>>>>>>represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the >>>>>> lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    I did wonder what they were for, but lacked the confidence to ask >>>>>about them. Thanks, John.

    I just got a pack of this

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DKLAJ6

    With the right pencil, it does great line work and photographs well.
    Erases nicely too.

    It doesn't have a grid, but it's translucent so I lay it on top of a
    sheet of blue-grid paler and I can follow the lines when I draw.

    And these are a positive boon for those of us tired of trying to find >>>European dots that have fallen on the floor:

    https://tinyurl.com/2972vu7c

    I sometimes draw a schemetic by taping parts pictures to a sheet of
    D-size vellum and drawing in the rest. I photograph that and give it to
    one of my guys to enter into PADS Logic and eventually do a PCB layout.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dxxtokrqe2cvcw6ldf5kd/B943_Sh_11.jpg? >rlkey=asfyswunc5jbni5sugg3ix6f4&raw=1

    That's scads faster than doing the CAD entry myself. More moving around,
    less sitting and clicking.

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    That physical exercise and fresh air probably will give a bit of a brain >boost to get the old grey cells firing at full efficiency. To turbocharge >that effect, give the guys plenty of strong coffee and donuts before they
    go out. Works for me!

    We'll supply any arguably legal stimulants.

    Some people get ideas while they sleep and some get ideas while they
    walk. Some people don't get ideas.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Oct 27 19:01:10 2024
    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 09:11:37 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 15:24:02 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:47:43 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:16:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it >>>>>>> represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the >>>>>> lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    I did wonder what they were for, but lacked the confidence to ask
    about them. Thanks, John.

    I just got a pack of this

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DKLAJ6

    With the right pencil, it does great line work and photographs well.
    Erases nicely too.

    It doesn't have a grid, but it's translucent so I lay it on top of a
    sheet of blue-grid paler and I can follow the lines when I draw.

    And these are a positive boon for those of us tired of trying to find
    European dots that have fallen on the floor:

    https://tinyurl.com/2972vu7c

    I sometimes draw a schemetic by taping parts pictures to a sheet of
    D-size vellum and drawing in the rest. I photograph that and give it to
    one of my guys to enter into PADS Logic and eventually do a PCB layout.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/dxxtokrqe2cvcw6ldf5kd/B943_Sh_11.jpg?
    rlkey=asfyswunc5jbni5sugg3ix6f4&raw=1

    That's scads faster than doing the CAD entry myself. More moving around,
    less sitting and clicking.

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    That physical exercise and fresh air probably will give a bit of a brain boost to get the old grey cells firing at full efficiency. To turbocharge that effect, give the guys plenty of strong coffee and donuts before they
    go out. Works for me!


    And half a beer per hundred pounds of lean body mass, to hit the Ballmer
    peak. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to JL@gct.com on Mon Oct 28 06:06:38 2024
    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Mon Oct 28 21:07:55 2024
    On 27/10/2024 6:53 pm, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    fdBill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    [...]
    So somebody has made a grade of paper that works as well as the Mylar
    drafting film that I used back in the days when we still drew circuit
    diagram with pencils on a drawing board.

    I wonder if anyone else has experienced the 'Looking Glass' phenomenon
    which I used to get?

    I often had to lay out a printed circuit board on translucent paper and
    work from either side. After working for a few days on the mirror-image side, with all the text reversed, I found it became so natural that
    returning to the right-way-around World was very difficult. That
    transition was far more difficult than adapting to the
    looking-glass-World had been in the first place.

    I attribute it to being left-handed (and have also noticed that I dream left-right reversed).

    I'm left-handed myself and have never had that particular problem, nor
    do I dream dream left-right reversed.

    Left-handers typically don't have the standard distribution of language processing in the brain, and one of my wife colleagues who was
    interested in that wouldn't test left-handed subjects. Of course a few
    of the right-handers she did test did have the sort of random
    distribution of function that most left-handers have because if you
    don't really care which had you use, you are just as likely to end up
    using the right hand rather than the left.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Mon Oct 28 08:09:21 2024
    On Sun, 27 Oct 2024 07:53:07 +0000, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
    (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:

    fdBill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    [...]
    So somebody has made a grade of paper that works as well as the Mylar
    drafting film that I used back in the days when we still drew circuit
    diagram with pencils on a drawing board.

    I wonder if anyone else has experienced the 'Looking Glass' phenomenon
    which I used to get?

    I often had to lay out a printed circuit board on translucent paper and
    work from either side. After working for a few days on the mirror-image >side, with all the text reversed, I found it became so natural that
    returning to the right-way-around World was very difficult. That
    transition was far more difficult than adapting to the
    looking-glass-World had been in the first place.

    We used to design on a sheet of frosty mylar with colored pencils to
    show the layers.

    The real layout was done with stick-on black stuff on a stack of clear
    mylar, one padmaster and one sheet for each layer of traces. The
    mylars were ultimately stacked and processed to film, which we sent
    top the PCB houses and demanded back.

    There was a guy in sillicon valley, Lorry Ray, who was a genius at
    making the film from our mylars.

    Resoution was terrible. It was borderline possible to get two traces
    between the pads of a DIP package.

    All that was horribly slow and expensive.

    I still have a couple of mylar stacks around to show to the kids.


    I attribute it to being left-handed (and have also noticed that I dream >left-right reversed).

    When I was younger, I could easily read and write backwards.

    I see a lot of photos on the web, in news reports and such, that are
    obviously left-right flipped.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 28 08:17:36 2024
    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:06:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin ><JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    We'd have to drive to a beach (ocean or Bay or Gate are about equal
    distances) and that would be a nuisance with parking and such. And the
    graphic resolution of sand is mediocre.

    No whiteboard forces more mental visualization. We can bail on the
    hike and go back to the office and whiteboard, max delay about 20
    minutes.

    Architectural and management concepts work in a hike, circuit design
    not so well.

    Percolating ideas is an interesting process. There must be books on
    the subject. The physical situation seems to matter.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to JL@gct.com on Mon Oct 28 16:18:52 2024
    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:17:36 -0700) it happened john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote in <jaavhjd47r91dcva8mjffo6f7q7ehgk855@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:06:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin >><JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    We'd have to drive to a beach (ocean or Bay or Gate are about equal >distances) and that would be a nuisance with parking and such. And the >graphic resolution of sand is mediocre.

    No whiteboard forces more mental visualization. We can bail on the
    hike and go back to the office and whiteboard, max delay about 20
    minutes.

    Architectural and management concepts work in a hike, circuit design
    not so well.

    Percolating ideas is an interesting process. There must be books on
    the subject. The physical situation seems to matter.

    Nature is very inventive, plants, animals,
    maybe spending some time there helps?
    There are simple drawing programs for on your smartphone or laptop
    that can be usd to show somebody more complex things wherever you are,
    even via the internet (My laptop has a Huawei 4G stick, is on 4G)
    I do need a working mouse however..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Oct 28 14:14:09 2024
    On 2024-10-26 18:24, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:47:43 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:16:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it
    represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the
    lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    I did wonder what they were for, but lacked the confidence to ask about
    them. Thanks, John.

    I just got a pack of this

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DKLAJ6

    With the right pencil, it does great line work and photographs well.
    Erases nicely too.

    It doesn't have a grid, but it's translucent so I lay it on top of a
    sheet of blue-grid paler and I can follow the lines when I draw.


    I use Clearprint too, the stuff with the fadeout blue grid. It's
    printed on the back, which is just right.

    I got mine from a stationary store that was going out of business, and
    I'll probably have some to leave to my heirs. (Heathen designers'
    funerals often include grave goods consisting of Staedtler lead holders, electric erasers, and so on.) ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Oct 28 11:25:51 2024
    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 16:18:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:17:36 -0700) it happened john larkin ><JL@gct.com> wrote in <jaavhjd47r91dcva8mjffo6f7q7ehgk855@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:06:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    We'd have to drive to a beach (ocean or Bay or Gate are about equal >>distances) and that would be a nuisance with parking and such. And the >>graphic resolution of sand is mediocre.

    No whiteboard forces more mental visualization. We can bail on the
    hike and go back to the office and whiteboard, max delay about 20
    minutes.

    Architectural and management concepts work in a hike, circuit design
    not so well.

    Percolating ideas is an interesting process. There must be books on
    the subject. The physical situation seems to matter.

    Nature is very inventive, plants, animals,
    maybe spending some time there helps?
    There are simple drawing programs for on your smartphone or laptop
    that can be usd to show somebody more complex things wherever you are,
    even via the internet (My laptop has a Huawei 4G stick, is on 4G)
    I do need a working mouse however..

    Thinking while hiking avoids the Eyeball Effect, the fact that most
    people change their behavior as a function of how many eyeballs are
    aimed at them. Actors and musicians and politicians have extreme
    eyeball sensitivity, get high from big audiences. Most autistic people
    have little or none.

    Eyeball Effect distorts clear thinking. Hiking with people, you seldom
    see their eyeballs.

    I've noticed that animals, cats and dogs and birds, are sensitive to
    eyeball effect too. It's probably a component of their threat
    evaluation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From wmartin@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Oct 28 11:13:50 2024
    On 10/28/24 09:18, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:17:36 -0700) it happened john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote in <jaavhjd47r91dcva8mjffo6f7q7ehgk855@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:06:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin >>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    We'd have to drive to a beach (ocean or Bay or Gate are about equal
    distances) and that would be a nuisance with parking and such. And the
    graphic resolution of sand is mediocre.

    No whiteboard forces more mental visualization. We can bail on the
    hike and go back to the office and whiteboard, max delay about 20
    minutes.

    Architectural and management concepts work in a hike, circuit design
    not so well.

    Percolating ideas is an interesting process. There must be books on
    the subject. The physical situation seems to matter.

    Nature is very inventive, plants, animals,
    maybe spending some time there helps?
    There are simple drawing programs for on your smartphone or laptop
    that can be usd to show somebody more complex things wherever you are,
    even via the internet (My laptop has a Huawei 4G stick, is on 4G)
    I do need a working mouse however..

    Nature is very good at "pleasing patterns" too. I sat next to a man on a
    long flight once, he had this huge collection of nature pictures, mostly
    trees and bushes, that he was browsing through...selecting patterns for
    wrought iron fencing to manufacture! Clever idea.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Oct 28 19:23:42 2024
    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    [...]
    When I was younger, I could easily read and write backwards.

    Yes, but did you find it easy to slip into and much more difficult to
    come out of ? That is what I found was happening to me.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jl@glen--canyon.com on Tue Oct 29 06:28:56 2024
    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:25:51 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <galvhjds4u1rtuu8515mb1o769qhibga15@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 16:18:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:17:36 -0700) it happened john larkin >><JL@gct.com> wrote in <jaavhjd47r91dcva8mjffo6f7q7ehgk855@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:06:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>>so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>>seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>>wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    We'd have to drive to a beach (ocean or Bay or Gate are about equal >>>distances) and that would be a nuisance with parking and such. And the >>>graphic resolution of sand is mediocre.

    No whiteboard forces more mental visualization. We can bail on the
    hike and go back to the office and whiteboard, max delay about 20 >>>minutes.

    Architectural and management concepts work in a hike, circuit design
    not so well.

    Percolating ideas is an interesting process. There must be books on
    the subject. The physical situation seems to matter.

    Nature is very inventive, plants, animals,
    maybe spending some time there helps?
    There are simple drawing programs for on your smartphone or laptop
    that can be usd to show somebody more complex things wherever you are,
    even via the internet (My laptop has a Huawei 4G stick, is on 4G)
    I do need a working mouse however..

    Thinking while hiking avoids the Eyeball Effect, the fact that most
    people change their behavior as a function of how many eyeballs are
    aimed at them. Actors and musicians and politicians have extreme
    eyeball sensitivity, get high from big audiences. Most autistic people
    have little or none.

    Eyeball Effect distorts clear thinking. Hiking with people, you seldom
    see their eyeballs.

    I've noticed that animals, cats and dogs and birds, are sensitive to
    eyeball effect too. It's probably a component of their threat
    evaluation.

    Every evening I put out some food for the birds here, mostly crows.
    Last night I checked and the neighbor's cat was eating it...
    It did not even care when I tapped against the window ... was hungry likely. The crows know me, they greet me .. crows are very smart.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Oct 29 21:00:58 2024
    On 29/10/2024 5:28 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:25:51 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <galvhjds4u1rtuu8515mb1o769qhibga15@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 16:18:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:17:36 -0700) it happened john larkin >>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <jaavhjd47r91dcva8mjffo6f7q7ehgk855@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:06:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>>> so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>>> seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>>> wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    We'd have to drive to a beach (ocean or Bay or Gate are about equal
    distances) and that would be a nuisance with parking and such. And the >>>> graphic resolution of sand is mediocre.

    No whiteboard forces more mental visualization. We can bail on the
    hike and go back to the office and whiteboard, max delay about 20
    minutes.

    Architectural and management concepts work in a hike, circuit design
    not so well.

    Percolating ideas is an interesting process. There must be books on
    the subject. The physical situation seems to matter.

    Nature is very inventive, plants, animals,
    maybe spending some time there helps?
    There are simple drawing programs for on your smartphone or laptop
    that can be usd to show somebody more complex things wherever you are,
    even via the internet (My laptop has a Huawei 4G stick, is on 4G)
    I do need a working mouse however..

    Thinking while hiking avoids the Eyeball Effect, the fact that most
    people change their behavior as a function of how many eyeballs are
    aimed at them. Actors and musicians and politicians have extreme
    eyeball sensitivity, get high from big audiences. Most autistic people
    have little or none.

    Eyeball Effect distorts clear thinking. Hiking with people, you seldom
    see their eyeballs.

    I've noticed that animals, cats and dogs and birds, are sensitive to
    eyeball effect too. It's probably a component of their threat
    evaluation.

    Every evening I put out some food for the birds here, mostly crows.
    Last night I checked and the neighbor's cat was eating it...
    It did not even care when I tapped against the window ... was hungry likely. The crows know me, they greet me .. crows are very smart.

    But not al that choosy.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Oct 29 11:20:23 2024
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:25:51 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <galvhjds4u1rtuu8515mb1o769qhibga15@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 16:18:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:17:36 -0700) it happened john larkin >><JL@gct.com> wrote in <jaavhjd47r91dcva8mjffo6f7q7ehgk855@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:06:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>>so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>>seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>>wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    We'd have to drive to a beach (ocean or Bay or Gate are about equal >>>distances) and that would be a nuisance with parking and such. And the >>>graphic resolution of sand is mediocre.

    No whiteboard forces more mental visualization. We can bail on the
    hike and go back to the office and whiteboard, max delay about 20 >>>minutes.

    Architectural and management concepts work in a hike, circuit design >>>not so well.

    Percolating ideas is an interesting process. There must be books on
    the subject. The physical situation seems to matter.

    Nature is very inventive, plants, animals,
    maybe spending some time there helps?
    There are simple drawing programs for on your smartphone or laptop
    that can be usd to show somebody more complex things wherever you are, >>even via the internet (My laptop has a Huawei 4G stick, is on 4G)
    I do need a working mouse however..

    Thinking while hiking avoids the Eyeball Effect, the fact that most
    people change their behavior as a function of how many eyeballs are
    aimed at them. Actors and musicians and politicians have extreme
    eyeball sensitivity, get high from big audiences. Most autistic people
    have little or none.

    Eyeball Effect distorts clear thinking. Hiking with people, you seldom
    see their eyeballs.

    I've noticed that animals, cats and dogs and birds, are sensitive to >eyeball effect too. It's probably a component of their threat
    evaluation.

    Every evening I put out some food for the birds here, mostly crows.
    Last night I checked and the neighbor's cat was eating it...
    It did not even care when I tapped against the window ... was hungry likely. The crows know me, they greet me .. crows are very smart.

    You haven't put up a cart wheel on a pole for the storks? Perhaps you
    could make one that doubled as a 'halo' aerial, which increased its
    bandwidth during the nesting season when the presence of the storks
    lowered the 'Q'.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Tue Oct 29 13:36:20 2024
    On a sunny day (Tue, 29 Oct 2024 11:20:23 +0000) it happened liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in <1r26s69.1msxveepc5pj4N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:25:51 -0700) it happened john larkin
    <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <galvhjds4u1rtuu8515mb1o769qhibga15@4ax.com>: >>
    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 16:18:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:17:36 -0700) it happened john larkin >> >><JL@gct.com> wrote in <jaavhjd47r91dcva8mjffo6f7q7ehgk855@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:06:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin >> >>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >> >>>>>so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >> >>>>>seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >> >>>>>wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    We'd have to drive to a beach (ocean or Bay or Gate are about equal
    distances) and that would be a nuisance with parking and such. And the
    graphic resolution of sand is mediocre.

    No whiteboard forces more mental visualization. We can bail on the
    hike and go back to the office and whiteboard, max delay about 20
    minutes.

    Architectural and management concepts work in a hike, circuit design
    not so well.

    Percolating ideas is an interesting process. There must be books on
    the subject. The physical situation seems to matter.

    Nature is very inventive, plants, animals,
    maybe spending some time there helps?
    There are simple drawing programs for on your smartphone or laptop
    that can be usd to show somebody more complex things wherever you are,
    even via the internet (My laptop has a Huawei 4G stick, is on 4G)
    I do need a working mouse however..

    Thinking while hiking avoids the Eyeball Effect, the fact that most
    people change their behavior as a function of how many eyeballs are
    aimed at them. Actors and musicians and politicians have extreme
    eyeball sensitivity, get high from big audiences. Most autistic people
    have little or none.

    Eyeball Effect distorts clear thinking. Hiking with people, you seldom
    see their eyeballs.

    I've noticed that animals, cats and dogs and birds, are sensitive to
    eyeball effect too. It's probably a component of their threat
    evaluation.

    Every evening I put out some food for the birds here, mostly crows.
    Last night I checked and the neighbor's cat was eating it...
    It did not even care when I tapped against the window ... was hungry likely. >> The crows know me, they greet me .. crows are very smart.

    You haven't put up a cart wheel on a pole for the storks? Perhaps you
    could make one that doubled as a 'halo' aerial, which increased its
    bandwidth during the nesting season when the presence of the storks
    lowered the 'Q'.

    I did consider something like that, on the roof for example.

    Cats are very smart too, they somehow get on a lower roof, then make noises in front of my bedroom,,
    They first jump on a garbage container and from there on the roof, clime to the top of that,
    from there they can, if they want, get to the main house roof.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/garden_IXIMG_0763.JPG

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Oct 29 14:50:22 2024
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    I did consider something like that, on the roof for example.

    Cats are very smart too, they somehow get on a lower roof, then make
    noises in front of my bedroom,, They first jump on a garbage container and from there on the roof, clime to the top of that, from there they can, if they want, get to the main house roof. https://panteltje.nl/pub/garden_IXIMG_0763.JPG

    Leave the lids of the containers open and see what happens. You may
    have to rescue some protesting cats but they might think twice about
    using that route in the future.

    I see you also have a ricketty wooden garden shed. Mine is my main
    electronics workshop (being small, it is easy to heat in Winter). The
    bigger stuff, like the lathe, lives in a spare downstairs room.




    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Tue Oct 29 07:52:54 2024
    On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 06:28:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:25:51 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <galvhjds4u1rtuu8515mb1o769qhibga15@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 16:18:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:17:36 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <jaavhjd47r91dcva8mjffo6f7q7ehgk855@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:06:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>>>so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>>>seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>>>wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    We'd have to drive to a beach (ocean or Bay or Gate are about equal >>>>distances) and that would be a nuisance with parking and such. And the >>>>graphic resolution of sand is mediocre.

    No whiteboard forces more mental visualization. We can bail on the
    hike and go back to the office and whiteboard, max delay about 20 >>>>minutes.

    Architectural and management concepts work in a hike, circuit design >>>>not so well.

    Percolating ideas is an interesting process. There must be books on
    the subject. The physical situation seems to matter.

    Nature is very inventive, plants, animals,
    maybe spending some time there helps?
    There are simple drawing programs for on your smartphone or laptop
    that can be usd to show somebody more complex things wherever you are, >>>even via the internet (My laptop has a Huawei 4G stick, is on 4G)
    I do need a working mouse however..

    Thinking while hiking avoids the Eyeball Effect, the fact that most
    people change their behavior as a function of how many eyeballs are
    aimed at them. Actors and musicians and politicians have extreme
    eyeball sensitivity, get high from big audiences. Most autistic people
    have little or none.

    Eyeball Effect distorts clear thinking. Hiking with people, you seldom
    see their eyeballs.

    I've noticed that animals, cats and dogs and birds, are sensitive to >>eyeball effect too. It's probably a component of their threat
    evaluation.

    Every evening I put out some food for the birds here, mostly crows.
    Last night I checked and the neighbor's cat was eating it...
    It did not even care when I tapped against the window ... was hungry likely. >The crows know me, they greet me .. crows are very smart.


    The local bluejays will eat out of my hand, but the crows and ravens
    won't.

    We have giant red-tailed hawks that hover around. The crows gang up on
    them and drive them away.

    Given some Fritos on the deck, the jays will chase away the crows.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to JL@gct.com on Wed Oct 30 06:25:15 2024
    On a sunny day (Tue, 29 Oct 2024 07:52:54 -0700) it happened john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote in <jdt1ij51pf3s7ofd5utndc821jusao4j3m@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 29 Oct 2024 06:28:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 11:25:51 -0700) it happened john larkin >><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <galvhjds4u1rtuu8515mb1o769qhibga15@4ax.com>: >>
    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 16:18:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 28 Oct 2024 08:17:36 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <jaavhjd47r91dcva8mjffo6f7q7ehgk855@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 06:06:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 27 Oct 2024 10:37:19 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <3gtshjh0v2s0ahia7d9lcfnp0nj6a13nga@4ax.com>: >>>>>>
    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>>>>so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>>>>seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>>>>wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    Go to the beach and draw in the sand?

    We'd have to drive to a beach (ocean or Bay or Gate are about equal >>>>>distances) and that would be a nuisance with parking and such. And the >>>>>graphic resolution of sand is mediocre.

    No whiteboard forces more mental visualization. We can bail on the >>>>>hike and go back to the office and whiteboard, max delay about 20 >>>>>minutes.

    Architectural and management concepts work in a hike, circuit design >>>>>not so well.

    Percolating ideas is an interesting process. There must be books on >>>>>the subject. The physical situation seems to matter.

    Nature is very inventive, plants, animals,
    maybe spending some time there helps?
    There are simple drawing programs for on your smartphone or laptop
    that can be usd to show somebody more complex things wherever you are, >>>>even via the internet (My laptop has a Huawei 4G stick, is on 4G)
    I do need a working mouse however..

    Thinking while hiking avoids the Eyeball Effect, the fact that most >>>people change their behavior as a function of how many eyeballs are
    aimed at them. Actors and musicians and politicians have extreme
    eyeball sensitivity, get high from big audiences. Most autistic people >>>have little or none.

    Eyeball Effect distorts clear thinking. Hiking with people, you seldom >>>see their eyeballs.

    I've noticed that animals, cats and dogs and birds, are sensitive to >>>eyeball effect too. It's probably a component of their threat
    evaluation.

    Every evening I put out some food for the birds here, mostly crows.
    Last night I checked and the neighbor's cat was eating it...
    It did not even care when I tapped against the window ... was hungry likely. >>The crows know me, they greet me .. crows are very smart.


    The local bluejays will eat out of my hand, but the crows and ravens
    won't.

    We have giant red-tailed hawks that hover around. The crows gang up on
    them and drive them away.

    Given some Fritos on the deck, the jays will chase away the crows.

    We have Magies
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magpie
    they do fight for food with the crows, but are a minority...
    There are doves, but I chased those away as those shit on the windows..
    you can hear them in summer all the time.
    Many other birds here too..
    Now big bird swarms are in the air, I noticed yesterday when biking,
    all travelling south for warmer areas.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Oct 30 06:16:01 2024
    On a sunny day (Tue, 29 Oct 2024 14:50:22 +0000) it happened liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in <1r272da.pgehnd11iwlz7N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    I did consider something like that, on the roof for example.

    Cats are very smart too, they somehow get on a lower roof, then make
    noises in front of my bedroom,, They first jump on a garbage container and >> from there on the roof, clime to the top of that, from there they can, if
    they want, get to the main house roof.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/garden_IXIMG_0763.JPG

    Leave the lids of the containers open and see what happens.

    That is not such a good idea, one has things like banana peels, other fruit and garden throw-aways
    and thousands of insects will then gather around and in it...
    Those then will also try to explore indoors if you even open a door or window for a few minutes.
    I use a bottle filled with a bit of apple juice covered with some foil wih small holes in it to
    trap insects like that, mostly in summer.
    Maybe other lifeforms will goi for the containers too, rats? I have seen a rabbit in the garden!
    Chicken!

    I do not want cats dead, those are OK..


    You may
    have to rescue some protesting cats but they might think twice about
    using that route in the future.


    I see you also have a ricketty wooden garden shed. Mine is my main >electronics workshop (being small, it is easy to heat in Winter). The
    bigger stuff, like the lathe, lives in a spare downstairs room.

    I keep my bike and a electric grass mower and some tables and chairs I can put out on the grass there..
    I have converted an upstairs room here into a soldering and electronics assembly spot,
    the lower building next to the containers houses the washing machine, some other stuff, like flexible solar panels
    that I can put pout on the grass, or on a boat, big boxes with electronics... what not.

    In the back of the garden grow grapes :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Oct 30 10:32:43 2024
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:


    There are doves, but I chased those away as those shit on the windows..
    you can hear them in summer all the time.

    There is a waste pipe running diagonally just below my kitchen
    ventilator. Most years a pair of pigeons decide to perch on it do their
    mating rituals. It gets very noisy in the kitchen.

    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Oct 30 10:22:29 2024
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 29 Oct 2024 14:50:22 +0000) it happened liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in <1r272da.pgehnd11iwlz7N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
    [Halo aerial disguised as a storks' nest]

    I did consider something like that, on the roof for example.

    If you connected it to a really powerful transmitter, you could have
    roast stork at Easter.

    Cats are very smart too, they somehow get on a lower roof, then make
    noises in front of my bedroom,, They first jump on a garbage container and >> from there on the roof, clime to the top of that, from there they can, if >> they want, get to the main house roof.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/garden_IXIMG_0763.JPG

    Leave the lids of the containers open and see what happens.

    That is not such a good idea,[...]
    I do not want cats dead, those are OK..

    Prop up a piece of wood or metal sheeting at a steep angle on the lids,
    so that cats slide off. If they get up behind it, they still won't be
    able to jump onto the roof. You might be woken by the sound of the
    sheeting hitting the ground after it has been pushed off the bins by a
    cat.

    [...]
    I have converted an upstairs room here into a soldering and
    electronics assembly spot,

    Very sensible, especially in Winter.

    [...]
    In the back of the garden grow grapes :-)

    Hooray for Global Warming!


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Wed Oct 30 11:28:44 2024
    On a sunny day (Wed, 30 Oct 2024 10:22:29 +0000) it happened liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in <1r28gf2.1y2qvzesjw5cN%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 29 Oct 2024 14:50:22 +0000) it happened
    liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote in
    <1r272da.pgehnd11iwlz7N%liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid>:

    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
    [Halo aerial disguised as a storks' nest]

    I did consider something like that, on the roof for example.

    If you connected it to a really powerful transmitter, you could have
    roast stork at Easter.

    Cats are very smart too, they somehow get on a lower roof, then make
    noises in front of my bedroom,, They first jump on a garbage container and
    from there on the roof, clime to the top of that, from there they can, if >> >> they want, get to the main house roof.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/garden_IXIMG_0763.JPG

    Leave the lids of the containers open and see what happens.

    That is not such a good idea,[...]
    I do not want cats dead, those are OK..

    Prop up a piece of wood or metal sheeting at a steep angle on the lids,
    so that cats slide off. If they get up behind it, they still won't be
    able to jump onto the roof. You might be woken by the sound of the
    sheeting hitting the ground after it has been pushed off the bins by a
    cat.

    [...]
    I have converted an upstairs room here into a soldering and
    electronics assembly spot,

    Very sensible, especially in Winter.

    [...]
    In the back of the garden grow grapes :-)

    Hooray for Global Warming!

    Yes I like the warming, close to the sea / beaches here.
    Grapes: it is dark red grapes, had some from the garden, the last ones now, some birds like those too.
    Yesterday bought some green ones from Albert Heijn (big supermarket here)
    To my amazement today in the news:
    Albert Hijn recalls packed red pitless grapes as those contain to much Ethefon:
    https://www.rtl.nl/nieuws/binnenland/artikel/5477818/rode-druiven-gevaarlijke-stof-albert-heijn

    So, there but for fortune ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Tom Del Rosso@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Nov 16 02:09:35 2024
    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others
    speak.


    --
    Defund the Thought Police

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-dom on Sat Nov 16 07:48:02 2024
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others >speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and
    one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.

    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for
    a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Nov 16 16:35:41 2024
    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others
    speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and
    one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.

    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for
    a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?



    The Byrds, silly.

    (It’s from Ecclesiastes, traditionally attributed to King Solomon. )

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Nov 16 20:45:09 2024
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 07:48:02 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" ><fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others >>speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and
    one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.

    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for
    a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?

    God. About Trump.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sat Nov 16 20:34:20 2024
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 16:35:41 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
    <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others
    speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and
    one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.

    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for
    a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?



    The Byrds, silly.

    (It’s from Ecclesiastes, traditionally attributed to King Solomon. )

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Off to (Christian) Church tomorrow, I assume, Phil?
    I am!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sat Nov 16 20:56:25 2024
    Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 16:35:41 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
    <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>> so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>> seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>> wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others >>>> speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and
    one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.

    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for
    a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?



    The Byrds, silly.

    (ItÂ’s from Ecclesiastes, traditionally attributed to King Solomon. )



    Off to (Christian) Church tomorrow, I assume, Phil?
    I am!


    Virgin Mary Antiochian Orthodox Church, 236 Grandview Ave, Yonkers NY. A beautiful place—y’all come!

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs



    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics,
    Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ehsjr@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Sat Nov 16 16:28:55 2024
    On 11/16/2024 11:35 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
    <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others
    speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and
    one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.

    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for
    a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?



    The Byrds, silly.

    You're revealing my age.
    Ed

    (It’s from Ecclesiastes, traditionally attributed to King Solomon. )

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 16 14:11:33 2024
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 20:45:09 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 07:48:02 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" >><fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room,
    so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That
    seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just
    wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others >>>speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and
    one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.
    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for
    a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?

    God. About Trump.

    What the world needs, now and then, is a little creative destruction.

    Or a lot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Nov 16 22:50:32 2024
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 14:11:33 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 20:45:09 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 07:48:02 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" >>><fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>> so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>> seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>> wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others >>>>speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and
    one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.
    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for
    a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?

    God. About Trump.

    What the world needs, now and then, is a little creative destruction.

    Or a lot.

    The history of human existence swings from one extreme to the other.
    It seems we have to slam into those rails either side of equilibrium
    before we come back to where we were supposed to be in the first
    place. We are currenly at the extreme boundary of Leftist thought with
    only one direction to follow going forward...
    Rejoice! Sanity has returned. :-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sat Nov 16 16:15:21 2024
    On Mon, 28 Oct 2024 14:14:09 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    On 2024-10-26 18:24, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 21:47:43 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 08:16:19 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sat, 26 Oct 2024 13:48:00 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Mon, 21 Oct 2024 09:27:24 -0400, Tom Del Rosso wrote:

    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    And the old zig-zag symbols the US uses for resistors.....
    --\/\/\/\/\--------

    better ---====-----
    2k2

    What's the point of that?

    Wasn't the zigzag used everywhere for 100 years?

    A rectangle could be anything.

    It's a connector pin on our schematics.


    I fully agree, Tom. If I saw that thing I'd immediately assume it
    represented a cocktail sausage.

    Edible schematics. Sounds good to me. The little rectangles on the
    lower-right can hold the dippy sauces and toothpicks.

    I did wonder what they were for, but lacked the confidence to ask about
    them. Thanks, John.

    I just got a pack of this

    https://www.amazon.com/dp/B001DKLAJ6

    With the right pencil, it does great line work and photographs well.
    Erases nicely too.

    It doesn't have a grid, but it's translucent so I lay it on top of a
    sheet of blue-grid paler and I can follow the lines when I draw.


    I use Clearprint too, the stuff with the fadeout blue grid. It's
    printed on the back, which is just right.

    I got mine from a stationary store that was going out of business, and
    I'll probably have some to leave to my heirs. (Heathen designers'
    funerals often include grave goods consisting of Staedtler lead holders, >electric erasers, and so on.) ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Genuine, vintage, no longer made Boston electric pencil sharpeners are
    much valued these days.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sat Nov 16 16:11:26 2024
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 22:50:32 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 14:11:33 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 20:45:09 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 07:48:02 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" >>>><fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>>> so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>>> seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>>> wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others >>>>>speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and >>>>one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.
    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for
    a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?

    God. About Trump.

    What the world needs, now and then, is a little creative destruction.

    Or a lot.

    The history of human existence swings from one extreme to the other.
    It seems we have to slam into those rails either side of equilibrium
    before we come back to where we were supposed to be in the first
    place. We are currenly at the extreme boundary of Leftist thought with
    only one direction to follow going forward...
    Rejoice! Sanity has returned. :-)

    Two human drives are the need to blend into the tribe, and the need to
    be a player in the latest fashions. The combination seems to be
    unstable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Nov 17 13:35:17 2024
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 16:11:26 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 22:50:32 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 14:11:33 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 20:45:09 +0000, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 07:48:02 -0800, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso" >>>>><fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>>>> so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>>>> seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>>>> wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others >>>>>>speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and >>>>>one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.
    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:
    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for >>>>>a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?

    God. About Trump.

    What the world needs, now and then, is a little creative destruction.

    Or a lot.

    The history of human existence swings from one extreme to the other.
    It seems we have to slam into those rails either side of equilibrium
    before we come back to where we were supposed to be in the first
    place. We are currenly at the extreme boundary of Leftist thought with
    only one direction to follow going forward...
    Rejoice! Sanity has returned. :-)

    Two human drives are the need to blend into the tribe, and the need to
    be a player in the latest fashions. The combination seems to be
    unstable.

    Life - like electronic design - is full of trade-offs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Mon Nov 18 11:51:22 2024
    On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Nov 2024 20:56:25 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in <vhb0tp$70du$1@dont-email.me>:

    Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 16:35:41 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 16 Nov 2024 02:09:35 -0500, "Tom Del Rosso"
    <fizzbintuesday@that-google-mail-domain.com> wrote:

    john larkin wrote:

    In our new office/design center we don't have a real conference room, >>>>>> so we go on group hikes around the Bernal Cut or in Glen Canyon. That >>>>>> seems to really work, getting physical outdoors with the crew. I just >>>>>> wish that more trees had whiteboards.

    You need 2 interns. One to hold the board and one to draw as the others >>>>> speak.


    Great idea. I like to draw myself, so one can be the whiteboard, and
    one can carry the markers and the eraser stuff. And a jug of coffee.

    https://www.topnotchsigns.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2019/02/Wearable-Printed.jpg

    This time of year, interns are cheap.

    Here is one of our several conference rooms:

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4s4cz13r8i4d6x1kb5r4a/Conference_Room.jpg?rlkey=dmcjg76js62hswuaf73g8stkw&dl=0

    With winter approaching, lots of cold rain, we can stop inventing for
    a few months and just make things work.

    "There is a time for every purpose under heaven."

    Who said that?



    The Byrds, silly.

    (ItÂ’s from Ecclesiastes, traditionally attributed to King Solomon. )



    Off to (Christian) Church tomorrow, I assume, Phil?
    I am!


    Virgin Mary Antiochian Orthodox Church, 236 Grandview Ave, Yonkers NY. A >beautiful place—y’all come!

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Last time I was in a church was when I was staying for a while with the Jesus people in Portland Oregon and we
    went to a black church there, was around 1976 to 1978 or there about.
    Was actually a special experience.

    Long before all those race revolts started in Portland.
    After that went south again to LA and then... further south..

    Have you ever seen that movie 'the blues brothers' ?
    how did I come to associate it with that?
    Did he see the light before they went to pay the ...

    And the Simon and Garfunkel song
    Hey hey hello Misses Robyourson
    chease is what you will love even more.
    Don't be a whore

    or whatever

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)