On 10/19/2024 11:58 AM, john larkin wrote:
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
What does "working after high school" mean? Some people with no college
have to drive Uber, some people get "jobs" with their Daddy's firm and
never really work a day in their lives.
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 12:31:39 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 10/19/2024 11:58 AM, john larkin wrote:
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
What does "working after high school" mean? Some people with no college
have to drive Uber, some people get "jobs" with their Daddy's firm and
never really work a day in their lives.
Some become electricians, plumbers, auto technicians, truck drivers,
fire fighters. You know, useful stuff.
There are some great 2-year courses too, like process control,
hospitality, various industrial and medical techs.
I wonder how many people with degrees in film-making or music theory
or sociology ever get good jobs in their field.
On 10/19/2024 9:50 AM, bitrex wrote:
It acts like there's some nice low-risk generic "baseline job" you can
get with just a high school degree in the US, there isn't.
Waiting tables? Fast food counter-person? Here, they are: landscapers, swimming pool cleaners, etc. Your total "investment" is the means of transportation you use to get to the gigs.
You can do about one of three things (unless work for your Daddy is an
option): go into the trades,
Tradesmen tend to have trouble as they age and their bodies can't
keep up with the demands of their trade. So, you have to aspire
(and work) to become a "Master" so you can have "Apprentices"
in your later years *or* stash a lot of your earnings (after
union dues) and hope to retire early. Nothing sadder than some
carpenter, roofer, automechanic, etc. doubled over with back
problems from advanced age.
It acts like there's some nice low-risk generic "baseline job" you can get with
just a high school degree in the US, there isn't.
You can do about one of three things (unless work for your Daddy is an option):
go into the trades,
try to start your own business and probably fail, or get a
low-paid job in the service industry about which every right-winger will tell you "just get a better job!" if you complain.
Or some combination.
On 10/19/2024 9:50 AM, bitrex wrote:
It acts like there's some nice low-risk generic "baseline job" you can get with
just a high school degree in the US, there isn't.
Waiting tables? Fast food counter-person? Here, they are: landscapers, >swimming pool cleaners, etc. Your total "investment" is the means of >transportation you use to get to the gigs.
You can do about one of three things (unless work for your Daddy is an option):
go into the trades,
Tradesmen tend to have trouble as they age and their bodies can't
keep up with the demands of their trade. So, you have to aspire
(and work) to become a "Master" so you can have "Apprentices"
in your later years *or* stash a lot of your earnings (after
union dues) and hope to retire early. Nothing sadder than some
carpenter, roofer, automechanic, etc. doubled over with back
problems from advanced age.
try to start your own business and probably fail, or get a
It takes a particular mindset and level of discipline to
"have no boss". And, in order to remain viable, a keen eye
on the trends in your particular market.
low-paid job in the service industry about which every right-winger will tell
you "just get a better job!" if you complain.
All of the "low end" jobs effectively pay the same. A job
may be "better" in some sense (working conditions, hours,
job description) but rarely a significant enough boost in
income to move you into a higher socioeconomic class.
Or some combination.
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 12:31:39 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 10/19/2024 11:58 AM, john larkin wrote:
What does "working after high school" mean? Some people with no college >>have to drive Uber, some people get "jobs" with their Daddy's firm and >>never really work a day in their lives.
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/ Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
Some become electricians, plumbers, auto technicians, truck drivers,
fire fighters. You know, useful stuff.
There are some great 2-year courses too, like process control,
hospitality, various industrial and medical techs.
I wonder how many people with degrees in film-making or music theory or sociology ever get good jobs in their field.
On 10/19/2024 12:49 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 12:31:39 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 10/19/2024 11:58 AM, john larkin wrote:
What does "working after high school" mean? Some people with no
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/ Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
college have to drive Uber, some people get "jobs" with their Daddy's
firm and never really work a day in their lives.
Some become electricians, plumbers, auto technicians, truck drivers,
fire fighters. You know, useful stuff.
Yeah there's a reason the trucking industry is always short people the
job pays well but it takes a certain mentality of person to really do
well at it, washout is high, lots of people think "I can do this, fun
life out on the road, big adventure" and end up realizing it just means
lots of time away from home, eating fast food and seeing the same
scenery over and over.
Not everyone's cut out to be a "real man", even many real men who adopt
the persona. Driving a spotless $75,000 Jeep around that says "Trail
Boss" on it while flying a desk is easier work if you can get it.
There are some great 2-year courses too, like process control,
hospitality, various industrial and medical techs.
That's not "working after high school", lol
I wonder how many people with degrees in film-making or music theory or
sociology ever get good jobs in their field.
I knew a guy in college who like drawing superheros ever since he was a child, even at 17 he was very good at it, 4 years of art school made him exceptional, got a job with one of the big-name companies right out of school. Another friend is on her second novel and they sell pretty good.
So it does happen, but talent is hard to teach. It's certainly easier
than ever with YT and Amazon and social media to get exposure.
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 08:58:06 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
Thanks. Graphics are nice, but I like to see where the numbers come
from and are the numbers current? Looks good so far:
"Which College Degrees Have The Best Return On Investment?" ><https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/which-college-degrees-have-best-return-investment>
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
On 10/19/2024 2:18 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 10/19/2024 9:50 AM, bitrex wrote:
It acts like there's some nice low-risk generic "baseline job" you can get >>> with just a high school degree in the US, there isn't.
Waiting tables? Fast food counter-person? Here, they are: landscapers, >> swimming pool cleaners, etc. Your total "investment" is the means of
transportation you use to get to the gigs.
Old "joke" is that waiting tables is what the US has instead of a first-world healthcare and social support system.
Part of why it's described in the popular imagination as the worst thing that could happen to you, rather than another type of hospitality-trade someone might voluntarily want to be a part of.
MA has a ballot question to raise the minimum wage of restaurant workers, should be interesting. All the big money restaurant lobby groups are against it
which is ample reason for me to vote for it; it's crazy that there's one particular industry that thinks it's so special that it shouldn't have to do what every other business does aka pay their employees.
You can do about one of three things (unless work for your Daddy is an
option): go into the trades,
Tradesmen tend to have trouble as they age and their bodies can't
keep up with the demands of their trade. So, you have to aspire
(and work) to become a "Master" so you can have "Apprentices"
in your later years *or* stash a lot of your earnings (after
union dues) and hope to retire early. Nothing sadder than some
carpenter, roofer, automechanic, etc. doubled over with back
problems from advanced age.
I have a relative in a unionized trade (engine repair for a large logistics company) management actually tends to be relatively supportive of older employees and the healthcare benefits are rather good by US standards.
But lot of the day-to-day stress doesn't come from the top it comes from younger co-workers and management tends to turn a blind eye for that, they prefer to let infighting and hazing do the work for them, eventually older employees get sick of the abuse and depart of their own accord.
The non-unionized trades like e.g. the railroad industry tend to have more overbearing managements, as one employee in that field quipped to me "There's no industry that will offer you more of the world for signing on, and then spend more of their time trying to fire you once you're in."
MA has a ballot question to raise the minimum wage of restaurant workers, should be interesting. All the big money restaurant lobby groups are against it
which is ample reason for me to vote for it; it's crazy that there's one particular industry that thinks it's so special that it shouldn't have to do what every other business does aka pay their employees.
Thanks. Graphics are nice, but I like to see where the numbers come
from and are the numbers current? Looks good so far:
On 10/19/2024 11:45 AM, bitrex wrote:
MA has a ballot question to raise the minimum wage of restaurant
workers, should be interesting. All the big money restaurant lobby
groups are against it which is ample reason for me to vote for it;
it's crazy that there's one particular industry that thinks it's so
special that it shouldn't have to do what every other business does
aka pay their employees.
A more amusing solution would be to set up a web site where you PUBLISH
the rates paid to employees at various shops and invite customers to
boycott those that don't pay well. "Why should you have to tip
heavier to compensate for their employer's sleaze?"
One of the local hospitals takes up an annual collection AMONG OTHER EMPLOYEES for the "underpaid employees". So, you are acknowledging that they are underpaid. And, expecting the rest of the employees to
make up for your cheapness? Really?? Wouldn't it be simpler to
just pay them more?!
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 16:28:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 08:58:06 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
Thanks. Graphics are nice, but I like to see where the numbers come
from and are the numbers current? Looks good so far:
"Which College Degrees Have The Best Return On Investment?" >><https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/which-college-degrees-have-best-return-investment>
The Wall Street Journal now published an annual survey of colleges,
rating then on how long it takes for the added earnings to pay for the
cost of the schooling received. Turns out that there are some good
deals ... and some really bad deals.
Joe Gwinn
Bankrupt Steward Health Care originated in Massachusetts, their web site stopped acknowledging they had any properties in MA well before the deal was closed.
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Steward_Health_Care>
<https://www.enterprisenews.com/story/news/local/2024/08/16/brockton-massachusetts-good-samaritan-medical-center-sale-announced-stewart-bankruptcy/74828700007/>
Hilarious that Good Samaritan used to be the most profitable hospital in the state and got "A" grades under Steward, the place was a dump.
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 13:02:55 -0400, bitrex wrote:
On 10/19/2024 12:49 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 12:31:39 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 10/19/2024 11:58 AM, john larkin wrote:
I wonder how many people with degrees in film-making or music theory or
sociology ever get good jobs in their field.
I knew a guy in college who like drawing superheros ever since he was a
child, even at 17 he was very good at it, 4 years of art school made him
exceptional, got a job with one of the big-name companies right out of
school. Another friend is on her second novel and they sell pretty good.
So it does happen, but talent is hard to teach. It's certainly easier
than ever with YT and Amazon and social media to get exposure.
That field - like so many others - is ripe for redundancy due to AI.
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 20:04:53 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 16:28:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 08:58:06 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
Thanks. Graphics are nice, but I like to see where the numbers come
from and are the numbers current? Looks good so far:
"Which College Degrees Have The Best Return On Investment?" >>><https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/which-college-degrees-have-best-return-investment>
The Wall Street Journal now published an annual survey of colleges,
rating then on how long it takes for the added earnings to pay for the
cost of the schooling received. Turns out that there are some good
deals ... and some really bad deals.
Joe Gwinn
Thanks. Looks like WSJ is ranking colleges by more metrics than just
the return on investment of a college education: ><https://www.wsj.com/news/collection/college-rankings-2024-4007c39b> ><https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/news/wall-street-journals-2025-best-colleges-in-america/>
I graduated from California State Polytechnic University Pomona, which
is #21 on the list: ><https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/news/wall-street-journals-2025-best-colleges-in-america/2/>
However, judging a return on investment was a problem for me. I
graduated in June 1971, just after the end of the space race and in
time for the collapse of the aerospace sector. I ended up fixing
2-way radios and odd jobs for a few years until the industry
recovered.
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 22:14:47 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 20:04:53 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 16:28:21 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> >>>wrote:
On Sat, 19 Oct 2024 08:58:06 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
Thanks. Graphics are nice, but I like to see where the numbers come >>>>from and are the numbers current? Looks good so far:
"Which College Degrees Have The Best Return On Investment?" >>>><https://www.zerohedge.com/personal-finance/which-college-degrees-have-best-return-investment>
The Wall Street Journal now published an annual survey of colleges, >>>rating then on how long it takes for the added earnings to pay for the >>>cost of the schooling received. Turns out that there are some good
deals ... and some really bad deals.
Joe Gwinn
Thanks. Looks like WSJ is ranking colleges by more metrics than just
the return on investment of a college education: >><https://www.wsj.com/news/collection/college-rankings-2024-4007c39b> >><https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/news/wall-street-journals-2025-best-colleges-in-america/>
I graduated from California State Polytechnic University Pomona, which
is #21 on the list: >><https://poetsandquantsforundergrads.com/news/wall-street-journals-2025-best-colleges-in-america/2/>
However, judging a return on investment was a problem for me. I
graduated in June 1971, just after the end of the space race and in
time for the collapse of the aerospace sector. I ended up fixing
2-way radios and odd jobs for a few years until the industry
recovered.
A recession will definitely affect cost recovery time, and the best
one can do is to use the same time period for the comparisons, thus >mitigating the major effects of recession, but not the secondary
effects due to differential effect on the various kinds of industry.
Joe Gwinn
All of the "low end" jobs effectively pay the same. A job
may be "better" in some sense (working conditions, hours,
job description) but rarely a significant enough boost in
income to move you into a higher socioeconomic class.
Or some combination.
How about a plumber at $150 an hour?
On 10/19/2024 3:02 PM, john larkin wrote:
All of the "low end" jobs effectively pay the same. A job
may be "better" in some sense (working conditions, hours,
job description) but rarely a significant enough boost in
income to move you into a higher socioeconomic class.
Or some combination.
How about a plumber at $150 an hour?
Trump seems to have taken up flipping burgers. Reminds me of Hillary
Clinton pulling beers:
<https://www.reddit.com/r/pics/comments/1g859s3/trump_working_at_mcdonalds_today>
Looking forward to it being his full-time job.
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
john larkin wrote:
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
Lifetime ROI? Does not make sense.
If an EE degree gives you $571k over a lifetime, then it's an extra $15k
per year.
john larkin wrote:
https://cms.zerohedge.com/s3/files/inline-images/Which_Degrees_Are_Worth_the_Most.jpg?itok=WW54ovtk
Lifetime ROI? Does not make sense.
If an EE degree gives you $571k over a lifetime, then it's an extra $15k
per year.
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