• Re: Motor cleaning

    From Don Y@21:1/5 to bitrex on Sat Oct 5 09:45:04 2024
    On 10/5/2024 9:31 AM, bitrex wrote:
    sci.electronics.repair seems dead so I'll ask here:

    Is there a solvent that's OK to dunk the whole rotor and stator of an e.g. Lionel universal motor in to clean it up? Like say fill a bag with the solvent
    and parts and then toss it in an ultrasonic bath. Would something like anhydrous isopropyl be appropriate?

    The disintegration of a nearby carbon-zinc battery has made this assembly a sooty mess. 8-(

    /Purple Power/ is my go-to cleaner for carburetors, etc.
    (which often have things like plastic floats, rubber O-rings,
    etc.) Not sure of how it might react with the varnishes
    used as insulation...

    Alcohol is probably OK

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  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 5 12:31:55 2024
    sci.electronics.repair seems dead so I'll ask here:

    Is there a solvent that's OK to dunk the whole rotor and stator of an
    e.g. Lionel universal motor in to clean it up? Like say fill a bag with
    the solvent and parts and then toss it in an ultrasonic bath. Would
    something like anhydrous isopropyl be appropriate?

    The disintegration of a nearby carbon-zinc battery has made this
    assembly a sooty mess. 8-(

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bp@www.zefox.net@21:1/5 to bitrex on Sat Oct 5 22:04:28 2024
    bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
    sci.electronics.repair seems dead so I'll ask here:

    Is there a solvent that's OK to dunk the whole rotor and stator of an
    e.g. Lionel universal motor in to clean it up? Like say fill a bag with
    the solvent and parts and then toss it in an ultrasonic bath. Would
    something like anhydrous isopropyl be appropriate?

    The disintegration of a nearby carbon-zinc battery has made this
    assembly a sooty mess. 8-(

    Battery leakage implies at least some corrosion, so hydrocarbon solvent alone seems unlikely to help by itself. I've used heated Pine-Sol Original to clean carbs at full strength, but it's fairly aggressive toward brass, which comes out pink. Zinc plating is removed in a few hours, die cast carb bodies came
    out undamaged. Best find a sacrificial motor to experiment with first.

    Stoddard solvent didn't hurt electric motors in typewriters and adding machines. The office equipment shop I worked in as a kid used a dishwaher-
    like contraption filled with Stoddard solvent and a cleaner called Lix
    that didn't hurt the motors, softened the rubber rollers and readily
    washed out the eraser rubber and WD-40 residue that gummed up typewriters.

    Metals came out shiny, painted surfaces didn't seem to suffer much, if at
    all. We weren't dealing with corrosion.

    The only reference to Lix I could find was this: https://www.xnumber.com/xnumber/cmisc_lix.htm
    The thread dates from 1997, so I don't hold out a lot of hope.
    The thread claims motors had to be taken out, but we never did
    it and I never saw one damaged out of a hundred or so machines.

    Good luck,

    bob prohaska

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to bitrex on Sat Oct 5 16:29:34 2024
    On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 12:31:55 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    sci.electronics.repair seems dead so I'll ask here:

    Is there a solvent that's OK to dunk the whole rotor and stator of an
    e.g. Lionel universal motor in to clean it up? Like say fill a bag with
    the solvent and parts and then toss it in an ultrasonic bath. Would
    something like anhydrous isopropyl be appropriate?

    The disintegration of a nearby carbon-zinc battery has made this
    assembly a sooty mess. 8-(

    Ultrasonic cleaners work through cavitation, which uses the energy
    from imploding bubbles to break up dirt and your sooty mess. What
    want is soap and *HOT* water. I use Dawn Ultra or Dawn Platinum
    dishwashing soap in my 3 liter ultrasonic bath tub. I sometimes use
    solvents, but only if I'm certain there are no plastic, rubber or
    painted parts involved.

    I've also seen a few too many underpowered ultrasonic cleaners. Do
    the aluminum foil test before blundering forward:
    "How to Test an Ultrasonic Cleaner" <https://blog.sra-solder.com/knowledge-base/how-to-test-an-ultrasonic-cleaner> If the test foil looks like it was hit by a shotgun blast, it's
    working. Another method uses frosted glass and a pencil. I haven't
    tried this, but it does look interesting:
    "Tips on Checking the Performance of your Ultrasonic Cleaner" <https://iultrasonic.com/blog/tips-on-checking-the-performance-of-your-ultrasonic-cleaner/>

    Good luck.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 5 16:37:19 2024
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 16:29:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:
    (...)

    One more thought. If the motor uses ball or roller bearing, and
    you've given the bearings a solvent bath, you will probably need to
    repack them with grease. If they're sealed bearing, you'll soon need
    to replace them. Please don't ask me how I know about this.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to bp@www.zefox.net on Sat Oct 5 20:28:41 2024
    On 10/5/2024 6:04 PM, bp@www.zefox.net wrote:
    bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
    sci.electronics.repair seems dead so I'll ask here:

    Is there a solvent that's OK to dunk the whole rotor and stator of an
    e.g. Lionel universal motor in to clean it up? Like say fill a bag with
    the solvent and parts and then toss it in an ultrasonic bath. Would
    something like anhydrous isopropyl be appropriate?

    The disintegration of a nearby carbon-zinc battery has made this
    assembly a sooty mess. 8-(

    Battery leakage implies at least some corrosion, so hydrocarbon solvent alone seems unlikely to help by itself. I've used heated Pine-Sol Original to clean carbs at full strength, but it's fairly aggressive toward brass, which comes out pink. Zinc plating is removed in a few hours, die cast carb bodies came out undamaged. Best find a sacrificial motor to experiment with first.

    Stoddard solvent didn't hurt electric motors in typewriters and adding machines. The office equipment shop I worked in as a kid used a dishwaher- like contraption filled with Stoddard solvent and a cleaner called Lix
    that didn't hurt the motors, softened the rubber rollers and readily
    washed out the eraser rubber and WD-40 residue that gummed up typewriters.

    Metals came out shiny, painted surfaces didn't seem to suffer much, if at all. We weren't dealing with corrosion.

    The only reference to Lix I could find was this: https://www.xnumber.com/xnumber/cmisc_lix.htm
    The thread dates from 1997, so I don't hold out a lot of hope.
    The thread claims motors had to be taken out, but we never did
    it and I never saw one damaged out of a hundred or so machines.

    Good luck,

    bob prohaska


    Thanks for the suggestions, the good news is the small amount of serious corrosion seemed to miss the important bits and largely end up on the
    internal frame of the choo-choo where it's not so visible, and
    evapo-rust has done a pretty good job of removing the worst of it.

    The rest of the guts of the locomotive seem undamaged except for a thin
    coating of carbon soot on everything.

    The battery is for the horn circuit and it even says on the bottom to
    remove when not in use, sheesh!

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  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Sat Oct 5 20:31:24 2024
    On 10/5/2024 7:29 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 12:31:55 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    sci.electronics.repair seems dead so I'll ask here:

    Is there a solvent that's OK to dunk the whole rotor and stator of an
    e.g. Lionel universal motor in to clean it up? Like say fill a bag with
    the solvent and parts and then toss it in an ultrasonic bath. Would
    something like anhydrous isopropyl be appropriate?

    The disintegration of a nearby carbon-zinc battery has made this
    assembly a sooty mess. 8-(

    Ultrasonic cleaners work through cavitation, which uses the energy
    from imploding bubbles to break up dirt and your sooty mess. What
    want is soap and *HOT* water. I use Dawn Ultra or Dawn Platinum
    dishwashing soap in my 3 liter ultrasonic bath tub. I sometimes use solvents, but only if I'm certain there are no plastic, rubber or
    painted parts involved.

    I've also seen a few too many underpowered ultrasonic cleaners. Do
    the aluminum foil test before blundering forward:
    "How to Test an Ultrasonic Cleaner" <https://blog.sra-solder.com/knowledge-base/how-to-test-an-ultrasonic-cleaner>
    If the test foil looks like it was hit by a shotgun blast, it's
    working. Another method uses frosted glass and a pencil. I haven't
    tried this, but it does look interesting:
    "Tips on Checking the Performance of your Ultrasonic Cleaner" <https://iultrasonic.com/blog/tips-on-checking-the-performance-of-your-ultrasonic-cleaner/>

    Good luck.



    Thanks, I picked up a surplus Branson 1200 similar to this one:

    <https://americanlaboratorytrading.com/lab-equipment-products/branson-1200-ultrasonic-cleaner-7863>

    The heater seems on the fritz but I had heard of the ultrasound test and
    it shotguns foil very well after a few minutes in the bath. I figure the
    heater is probably an easier fix but I haven't had time to peek inside.

    I put some of the non-electrical parts inside a ziplock baggie filled
    with Simple Green and then submerged that in the water bath and that
    seemed to work great with the purely mechanical bits and it cleaned them
    up real well, but I had concerns about putting the rotor and stator in
    the same way.

    So long as I let them dry out thoroughly maybe not so bad? I'll probably
    want to pull the carbon "brushes" on the commutator first, though.

    For re-lubing gears I use "Red & Tacky" from Autozone, for toy parts one
    $10 tube of the stuff should probably be good for a long time

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  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to bitrex on Sun Oct 6 00:45:04 2024
    On 2024-10-05, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
    sci.electronics.repair seems dead so I'll ask here:

    Is there a solvent that's OK to dunk the whole rotor and stator of an
    e.g. Lionel universal motor in to clean it up?

    It depends what the winding warnish is.

    Like say fill a bag with
    the solvent and parts and then toss it in an ultrasonic bath. Would
    something like anhydrous isopropyl be appropriate?

    You know that ultrasonic works by micro-cavitation so you're exposing
    your motor to micro-doses of superheated solvent, right?

    The disintegration of a nearby carbon-zinc battery has made this
    assembly a sooty mess. 8-(

    I'm guessing you actually mean manganese dioxide and not soot. so
    you're trying to clean the chemical spill?

    water is probably a good start,

    --
    Jasen.
    🇺🇦 Слава Україні

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  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sat Oct 5 20:32:40 2024
    On 10/5/2024 12:45 PM, Don Y wrote:
    On 10/5/2024 9:31 AM, bitrex wrote:
    sci.electronics.repair seems dead so I'll ask here:

    Is there a solvent that's OK to dunk the whole rotor and stator of an
    e.g. Lionel universal motor in to clean it up? Like say fill a bag
    with the solvent and parts and then toss it in an ultrasonic bath.
    Would something like anhydrous isopropyl be appropriate?

    The disintegration of a nearby carbon-zinc battery has made this
    assembly a sooty mess. 8-(

    /Purple Power/ is my go-to cleaner for carburetors, etc.
    (which often have things like plastic floats, rubber O-rings,
    etc.)  Not sure of how it might react with the varnishes
    used as insulation...

    Alcohol is probably OK



    Thanks for getting back, yeah, the varnish/enamel on the windings
    concerns me a bit so I don't want to use anything too aggressive.

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  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to bitrex on Sun Oct 6 02:46:11 2024
    On 2024-10-06, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    Thanks for the suggestions, the good news is the small amount of serious corrosion seemed to miss the important bits and largely end up on the internal frame of the choo-choo where it's not so visible, and
    evapo-rust has done a pretty good job of removing the worst of it.

    Ok. evaporust is aqueous citric acid and a chelating agent, that will have dealt
    to the ammoinium chloride spill, and the resulting corrosion.

    The rest of the guts of the locomotive seem undamaged except for a thin coating of carbon soot on everything.

    If it's graphite it is not doing any harm, wipe it off or leave it,
    but I suspect it may actually be manganese dioxide... which I think is
    fairly harmless.

    Engine de-greaser is kerosene in a spray pack. that should be safe.
    brake cleaner is a more voltatile solvent but ptobably fine too.
    there will be somethign from electro-lube also.

    The battery is for the horn circuit and it even says on the bottom to
    remove when not in use, sheesh!

    Replace with rectifier and super capacitor? they may be a kit
    available already.

    --
    Jasen.
    🇺🇦 Слава Україні

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From ehsjr@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Sun Oct 6 18:21:19 2024
    On 10/5/2024 7:29 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 12:31:55 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    sci.electronics.repair seems dead so I'll ask here:

    Is there a solvent that's OK to dunk the whole rotor and stator of an
    e.g. Lionel universal motor in to clean it up? Like say fill a bag with
    the solvent and parts and then toss it in an ultrasonic bath. Would
    something like anhydrous isopropyl be appropriate?

    The disintegration of a nearby carbon-zinc battery has made this
    assembly a sooty mess. 8-(

    Ultrasonic cleaners work through cavitation, which uses the energy
    from imploding bubbles to break up dirt and your sooty mess. What
    want is soap and *HOT* water. I use Dawn Ultra or Dawn Platinum
    dishwashing soap in my 3 liter ultrasonic bath tub. I sometimes use solvents, but only if I'm certain there are no plastic, rubber or
    painted parts involved.

    I've also seen a few too many underpowered ultrasonic cleaners. Do
    the aluminum foil test before blundering forward:
    "How to Test an Ultrasonic Cleaner" <https://blog.sra-solder.com/knowledge-base/how-to-test-an-ultrasonic-cleaner>
    If the test foil looks like it was hit by a shotgun blast, it's
    working. Another method uses frosted glass and a pencil. I haven't
    tried this, but it does look interesting:
    "Tips on Checking the Performance of your Ultrasonic Cleaner" <https://iultrasonic.com/blog/tips-on-checking-the-performance-of-your-ultrasonic-cleaner/>

    Good luck.

    Thanks for those links!
    Ed

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  • From wmartin@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Sat Oct 12 14:05:14 2024
    On 10/5/24 16:37, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 16:29:34 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:
    (...)

    One more thought. If the motor uses ball or roller bearing, and
    you've given the bearings a solvent bath, you will probably need to
    repack them with grease. If they're sealed bearing, you'll soon need
    to replace them. Please don't ask me how I know about this.


    Footnote: If it has bearings, do NOT put it in a strong ultrasonic bath.
    You may end up with welded together bearings...I've had it happen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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