• Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 3 14:46:46 2024
    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away
    and get something usable.

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  • From Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Oct 4 09:28:47 2024
    On 03-10-2024 23:46, john larkin wrote:
    Extech EX410A

    I have good experience with the Uni-T products.

    This one has close to same specs as a Keysigth one:

    https://www.amazon.com/UT117C-High-Precision-True-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B0C7HFSVKV

    at a third of the price...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to klauskvik@hotmail.com on Fri Oct 4 07:46:32 2024
    On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 09:28:47 +0200, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On 03-10-2024 23:46, john larkin wrote:
    Extech EX410A

    I have good experience with the Uni-T products.

    This one has close to same specs as a Keysigth one:

    https://www.amazon.com/UT117C-High-Precision-True-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B0C7HFSVKV

    at a third of the price...

    Looks nice, currently unavailable.

    Flukes are good, except for the insane pricing. And the insane
    difficulty of replacing batteries or fuses.

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  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Oct 4 17:55:08 2024
    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 07:46:32 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 09:28:47 +0200, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund ><klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On 03-10-2024 23:46, john larkin wrote:
    Extech EX410A

    I have good experience with the Uni-T products.

    This one has close to same specs as a Keysigth one:
    https://www.amazon.com/UT117C-High-Precision-True-Digital-Multimeter/dp/B0C7HFSVKV

    at a third of the price...

    Looks nice, currently unavailable.

    Flukes are good, except for the insane pricing. And the insane
    difficulty of replacing batteries or fuses.

    +1 on the Unit-T meters. I use a Megger for HV stuff as I don't trust
    Unit-T for anything potentially high energy, but in terms of accuracy
    for board level electronics use, they're really very good.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 4 16:07:24 2024
    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away
    and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    EX410:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex410a/>

    I have two Extech EX470 DMM's:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex470a>
    Presumably, the auto power off function is similar.

    I've had both DMM's for over 10 years and use them often. I've had no difficulties except with various 9V batteries. I got tired of
    replacing them. Over the last 5 or so years, I've experimented with
    two types of rechargeable Li-Ion 9V batteries.

    The ones without an internal battery charger had self-discharge
    problems:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/304501384792>
    They work, but I wouldn't recommend them.

    The batteries I'm using now, which have a built in charger, are
    better:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/386563315011>

    If your complaint about the auto power off feature involves some
    leakage current when the auto power off feature has turned off, these
    batteries might help.

    I just measured the battery drains in my Extech EX470.
    Time to power off: 30 mins
    Operating battery current: 5.4 ma
    Power off after timeout: 0.02 ma
    Power off using rotary switch: <0.01 ma

    I also have a Uni-T UT210E. <https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut210-series/>
    I bought it for automotive use because of the "clamp on" DC Ammeter
    feature. 3 DC scales (2, 20, 100 Amps DC) using a hall effect device.
    It's sensitive to nearby metal objects at <1A DC. Switching from
    between AC and DC is not logical. When switching ranges, it also
    switches from DC -> AC. When using the hall effect ammeter, resetting
    to zero has to be done fairly often. It uses two AAA alkaline cells.
    NiMH will barely work due to low voltage. Li-Ion AAA are available
    but I haven't tried any (yet):
    <https://www.xtar.cc/aa-aaa-battery.html> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/364640309348>
    Otherwise, I like Uni-T.

    Also, some hacking is possible: <https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-look-at-the-uni-t-ut210e/>




    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jeffl@cruzio.com on Sat Oct 5 06:45:27 2024
    On a sunny day (Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <7so0gjtispsfqvv9klhq9vlsgfpqd1vs2m@4ax.com>:

    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away
    and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    EX410:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex410a/>

    I have two Extech EX470 DMM's:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex470a>
    Presumably, the auto power off function is similar.

    I've had both DMM's for over 10 years and use them often. I've had no >difficulties except with various 9V batteries. I got tired of
    replacing them. Over the last 5 or so years, I've experimented with
    two types of rechargeable Li-Ion 9V batteries.

    The ones without an internal battery charger had self-discharge
    problems:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/304501384792>
    They work, but I wouldn't recommend them.

    The batteries I'm using now, which have a built in charger, are
    better:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/386563315011>

    Interesting, did not know that existed.

    OTOH my multimeter lasts years on a 9V battery from the supermarket here.. meter switches off automatically, but I switch it of by hand almost always. means it is never left on for more than 24 hours..
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/chinese_multimeter_img_3159.jpg

    I use this too sometimes:
    https://www.conrad.nl/nl/p/voltcraft-vc-320-stroomtang-digitaal-cat-ii-600-v-cat-iii-300-v-weergave-counts-2000-1307543.html

    Have a Voltcraft soldering station too, now for > 20 years, is OK.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/soldering_iron_LCD_display_IMG_5456.JPG
    never a problem...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 5 06:35:12 2024
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 06:45:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann ><jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <7so0gjtispsfqvv9klhq9vlsgfpqd1vs2m@4ax.com>:

    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away
    and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    EX410:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex410a/>

    I have two Extech EX470 DMM's:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex470a>
    Presumably, the auto power off function is similar.

    I've had both DMM's for over 10 years and use them often. I've had no >>difficulties except with various 9V batteries. I got tired of
    replacing them. Over the last 5 or so years, I've experimented with
    two types of rechargeable Li-Ion 9V batteries.

    The ones without an internal battery charger had self-discharge
    problems:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/304501384792>
    They work, but I wouldn't recommend them.

    The batteries I'm using now, which have a built in charger, are
    better:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/386563315011>

    Interesting, did not know that existed.

    Eventually, there will be batteries and cells available in every
    combination of size and chemistry. Whether all combinations are
    usable, practical or economical, is a different problem. I didn't
    know Li-Ion AAA cells existed until after I searched for them. One
    day, they magically appeared on eBay and Amazon.

    Incidentally, you might find these web pages of interest:
    "Low current discharge of batteries" <https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteriesLowCurrentDischarge%20UK.html#9V,_Panasonic_Pro_Power>
    <https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteriesLowCurrentDischarge2%20UK.html>
    Most of the battery related forums emphasize high current
    applications, such as EV's, power tools, drones, flashlights, LED
    lighting, etc, while low current devices, such as multimeters,
    component testers, ESR meters, TDR's, etc seem to be neglected.

    I think LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) is a better solution for test equipment and TV remote controls. With a nominal 3.2V voltage, a
    single AA or AAA cell should substitute well for the usual two AA or
    AAA cells in series arrangement:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/387366292333>
    I'm trying to resist ordering some cells and creating yet another
    project that I can't finish.

    OTOH my multimeter lasts years on a 9V battery from the supermarket here.. >meter switches off automatically, but I switch it of by hand almost always. >means it is never left on for more than 24 hours..
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/chinese_multimeter_img_3159.jpg

    My main goal is to eliminate non-rechargeable batteries from my life, especially alkaline cells, which tend to leak and corrode terminals,
    wires and PCB's: <https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg>

    I use this too sometimes:
    https://www.conrad.nl/nl/p/voltcraft-vc-320-stroomtang-digitaal-cat-ii-600-v-cat-iii-300-v-weergave-counts-2000-1307543.html

    Have a Voltcraft soldering station too, now for > 20 years, is OK.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/soldering_iron_LCD_display_IMG_5456.JPG
    never a problem...

    I have a box full of Weller WTCP series (TC202 base) very used
    soldering stations along with a collection of half burned out tips. <https://www.google.com/search?q=weller+wtcpt&udm=2>
    I repaired what I could and produced about 15 working soldering
    stations from the parts. I sold most of these, but still have and use
    about 4 of them. I've had them since early college, which makes them
    about 55 years old.


    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 5 07:52:25 2024
    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away
    and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    It shuts off in the middle of a measurement, and you have to rotate
    the very klunky range knob all the way back to OFF and then all the
    way back to where it was.

    It's OK for one-time measurements I guess, but terrible for bench
    experiments.

    Extech was planning to introduce some thermal imagers, so FLIR bought
    them to stop it. That's all FLIR really cares about.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jeffl@cruzio.com on Sat Oct 5 14:37:55 2024
    On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Oct 2024 06:35:12 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <bdd2gj50jheq0r2uv7c9qfvidc12bg91g4@4ax.com>:

    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 06:45:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann >><jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <7so0gjtispsfqvv9klhq9vlsgfpqd1vs2m@4ax.com>:

    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>>wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away >>>>and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    EX410:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex410a/>

    I have two Extech EX470 DMM's:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex470a>
    Presumably, the auto power off function is similar.

    I've had both DMM's for over 10 years and use them often. I've had no >>>difficulties except with various 9V batteries. I got tired of
    replacing them. Over the last 5 or so years, I've experimented with
    two types of rechargeable Li-Ion 9V batteries.

    The ones without an internal battery charger had self-discharge
    problems:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/304501384792>
    They work, but I wouldn't recommend them.

    The batteries I'm using now, which have a built in charger, are
    better:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/386563315011>

    Interesting, did not know that existed.

    Eventually, there will be batteries and cells available in every
    combination of size and chemistry. Whether all combinations are
    usable, practical or economical, is a different problem. I didn't
    know Li-Ion AAA cells existed until after I searched for them. One
    day, they magically appeared on eBay and Amazon.

    Incidentally, you might find these web pages of interest:
    "Low current discharge of batteries" ><https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteriesLowCurrentDischarge%20UK.html#9V,_Panasonic_Pro_Power>
    <https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteriesLowCurrentDischarge2%20UK.html>
    Most of the battery related forums emphasize high current
    applications, such as EV's, power tools, drones, flashlights, LED
    lighting, etc, while low current devices, such as multimeters,
    component testers, ESR meters, TDR's, etc seem to be neglected.

    I think LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) is a better solution for test >equipment and TV remote controls. With a nominal 3.2V voltage, a
    single AA or AAA cell should substitute well for the usual two AA or
    AAA cells in series arrangement:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/387366292333>
    I'm trying to resist ordering some cells and creating yet another
    project that I can't finish.

    OTOH my multimeter lasts years on a 9V battery from the supermarket here.. >>meter switches off automatically, but I switch it of by hand almost always. >>means it is never left on for more than 24 hours..
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/chinese_multimeter_img_3159.jpg

    My main goal is to eliminate non-rechargeable batteries from my life, >especially alkaline cells, which tend to leak and corrode terminals,
    wires and PCB's: ><https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg>

    I use this too sometimes:
    https://www.conrad.nl/nl/p/voltcraft-vc-320-stroomtang-digitaal-cat-ii-600-v-cat-iii-300-v-weergave-counts-2000-1307543.html

    Have a Voltcraft soldering station too, now for > 20 years, is OK.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/soldering_iron_LCD_display_IMG_5456.JPG
    never a problem...

    I have a box full of Weller WTCP series (TC202 base) very used
    soldering stations along with a collection of half burned out tips. ><https://www.google.com/search?q=weller+wtcpt&udm=2>
    I repaired what I could and produced about 15 working soldering
    stations from the parts. I sold most of these, but still have and use
    about 4 of them. I've had them since early college, which makes them
    about 55 years old.

    I remember the Wellers from work, had one for years at home too.
    As to rechargable AAA and AA I use 'Eneloop' batteries,
    self discharge is almost zero, nice in a small flashlight (always light even if not used in ages)
    in TV remotes, even in my gamma spectrometer.

    I have some AA lifepo4 and a 250 Ah big 12V lifepo4 pack with a 2 kW 50 Hz DC/ AC converter
    that can power my fridge or even a cooking plate or a microwave if needed.
    https://panteltje.online/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG Flexible solar cells I can lay out in the garden... and a charger for the battery pack.
    I do use a lipo in my weather station, one 3V lipo + a short (Ohm) AAA battery to replace 2 1.5 V batteries, same in one remote.
    The weather station runs a few month on that before it needs a re-charge.
    The remote I do not remember having recharged in a few years...
    And have several lipo 2 and 3 cell models for my drones:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/3cell_40C_ebay_lipo_IMG_6682.JPG

    And ofcourse many of these in different projects:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/SWR_bridge_wired_IMG_5013.JPG
    https://panteltje.online/pub/SWR_bridge_on_dummy_load_IMG_5046.JPG

    As a kid I started with 4.5 V batteries...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to klauskvik@hotmail.com on Sat Oct 5 12:10:01 2024
    On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 21:04:03 +0200, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On 05-10-2024 15:35, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 06:45:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann
    <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <7so0gjtispsfqvv9klhq9vlsgfpqd1vs2m@4ax.com>: >>>
    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away >>>>> and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    EX410:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex410a/>

    I have two Extech EX470 DMM's:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex470a>
    Presumably, the auto power off function is similar.

    I've had both DMM's for over 10 years and use them often. I've had no >>>> difficulties except with various 9V batteries. I got tired of
    replacing them. Over the last 5 or so years, I've experimented with
    two types of rechargeable Li-Ion 9V batteries.

    The ones without an internal battery charger had self-discharge
    problems:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/304501384792>
    They work, but I wouldn't recommend them.

    The batteries I'm using now, which have a built in charger, are
    better:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/386563315011>

    Interesting, did not know that existed.

    Eventually, there will be batteries and cells available in every
    combination of size and chemistry. Whether all combinations are
    usable, practical or economical, is a different problem. I didn't
    know Li-Ion AAA cells existed until after I searched for them. One
    day, they magically appeared on eBay and Amazon.

    Incidentally, you might find these web pages of interest:
    "Low current discharge of batteries"
    <https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteriesLowCurrentDischarge%20UK.html#9V,_Panasonic_Pro_Power>
    <https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteriesLowCurrentDischarge2%20UK.html>
    Most of the battery related forums emphasize high current
    applications, such as EV's, power tools, drones, flashlights, LED
    lighting, etc, while low current devices, such as multimeters,
    component testers, ESR meters, TDR's, etc seem to be neglected.

    I think LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) is a better solution for test
    equipment and TV remote controls. With a nominal 3.2V voltage, a
    single AA or AAA cell should substitute well for the usual two AA or
    AAA cells in series arrangement:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/387366292333>
    I'm trying to resist ordering some cells and creating yet another
    project that I can't finish.

    OTOH my multimeter lasts years on a 9V battery from the supermarket here.. >>> meter switches off automatically, but I switch it of by hand almost always. >>> means it is never left on for more than 24 hours..
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/chinese_multimeter_img_3159.jpg

    My main goal is to eliminate non-rechargeable batteries from my life,
    especially alkaline cells, which tend to leak and corrode terminals,
    wires and PCB's:
    <https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg>

    I use this too sometimes:
    https://www.conrad.nl/nl/p/voltcraft-vc-320-stroomtang-digitaal-cat-ii-600-v-cat-iii-300-v-weergave-counts-2000-1307543.html

    Have a Voltcraft soldering station too, now for > 20 years, is OK.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/soldering_iron_LCD_display_IMG_5456.JPG
    never a problem...

    I have a box full of Weller WTCP series (TC202 base) very used
    soldering stations along with a collection of half burned out tips.
    <https://www.google.com/search?q=weller+wtcpt&udm=2>
    I repaired what I could and produced about 15 working soldering
    stations from the parts. I sold most of these, but still have and use
    about 4 of them. I've had them since early college, which makes them
    about 55 years old.


    I still have my first soldering iron, a Weller WECP-20 (so it's 40 years >old). Use it as much as the Thermaltronics professional station. Comes
    in handy when I need something with more heat capacity.

    Also have a Weller WMRP. Heats up in 3 seconds:

    https://www.conradelektronik.dk/da/p/weller-wmrp-set-loddekolber-40-w-inkl-opbevaring-588538.html

    The Metcals are fabulous.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Sat Oct 5 21:04:03 2024
    On 05-10-2024 15:35, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 06:45:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann >> <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <7so0gjtispsfqvv9klhq9vlsgfpqd1vs2m@4ax.com>:

    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away
    and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    EX410:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex410a/>

    I have two Extech EX470 DMM's:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex470a>
    Presumably, the auto power off function is similar.

    I've had both DMM's for over 10 years and use them often. I've had no
    difficulties except with various 9V batteries. I got tired of
    replacing them. Over the last 5 or so years, I've experimented with
    two types of rechargeable Li-Ion 9V batteries.

    The ones without an internal battery charger had self-discharge
    problems:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/304501384792>
    They work, but I wouldn't recommend them.

    The batteries I'm using now, which have a built in charger, are
    better:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/386563315011>

    Interesting, did not know that existed.

    Eventually, there will be batteries and cells available in every
    combination of size and chemistry. Whether all combinations are
    usable, practical or economical, is a different problem. I didn't
    know Li-Ion AAA cells existed until after I searched for them. One
    day, they magically appeared on eBay and Amazon.

    Incidentally, you might find these web pages of interest:
    "Low current discharge of batteries" <https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteriesLowCurrentDischarge%20UK.html#9V,_Panasonic_Pro_Power>
    <https://lygte-info.dk/info/BatteriesLowCurrentDischarge2%20UK.html>
    Most of the battery related forums emphasize high current
    applications, such as EV's, power tools, drones, flashlights, LED
    lighting, etc, while low current devices, such as multimeters,
    component testers, ESR meters, TDR's, etc seem to be neglected.

    I think LiFePO4 (lithium iron phosphate) is a better solution for test equipment and TV remote controls. With a nominal 3.2V voltage, a
    single AA or AAA cell should substitute well for the usual two AA or
    AAA cells in series arrangement:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/387366292333>
    I'm trying to resist ordering some cells and creating yet another
    project that I can't finish.

    OTOH my multimeter lasts years on a 9V battery from the supermarket here.. >> meter switches off automatically, but I switch it of by hand almost always. >> means it is never left on for more than 24 hours..
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/chinese_multimeter_img_3159.jpg

    My main goal is to eliminate non-rechargeable batteries from my life, especially alkaline cells, which tend to leak and corrode terminals,
    wires and PCB's: <https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/Kirkland-AAA-leak.jpg>

    I use this too sometimes:
    https://www.conrad.nl/nl/p/voltcraft-vc-320-stroomtang-digitaal-cat-ii-600-v-cat-iii-300-v-weergave-counts-2000-1307543.html

    Have a Voltcraft soldering station too, now for > 20 years, is OK.
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/soldering_iron_LCD_display_IMG_5456.JPG
    never a problem...

    I have a box full of Weller WTCP series (TC202 base) very used
    soldering stations along with a collection of half burned out tips. <https://www.google.com/search?q=weller+wtcpt&udm=2>
    I repaired what I could and produced about 15 working soldering
    stations from the parts. I sold most of these, but still have and use
    about 4 of them. I've had them since early college, which makes them
    about 55 years old.


    I still have my first soldering iron, a Weller WECP-20 (so it's 40 years
    old). Use it as much as the Thermaltronics professional station. Comes
    in handy when I need something with more heat capacity.

    Also have a Weller WMRP. Heats up in 3 seconds:

    https://www.conradelektronik.dk/da/p/weller-wmrp-set-loddekolber-40-w-inkl-opbevaring-588538.html

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to klauskvik@hotmail.com on Sat Oct 5 13:45:45 2024
    On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 21:04:03 +0200, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

    I still have my first soldering iron, a Weller WECP-20 (so it's 40 years >old). Use it as much as the Thermaltronics professional station. Comes
    in handy when I need something with more heat capacity.

    Also have a Weller WMRP. Heats up in 3 seconds: >https://www.conradelektronik.dk/da/p/weller-wmrp-set-loddekolber-40-w-inkl-opbevaring-588538.html

    Nice. A fine tip would be nice but I do fine soldering with a hot air
    gun or a copper wire wrapped around the soldering tip (with plenty of
    flux). <https://www.instructables.com/Making-a-fine-tip-for-your-solding-iron-for-SMD-so/>
    My traveling kit has a TS101 style soldering iron which I don't use
    very often. Something like this: <https://www.amazon.com/TOOLSAGE-Kit-Programmable-TS101B-B2/dp/B0C39SPZXH>
    It replaced one of these 12V soldering irons: <https://www.amazon.com/Weller-TCP12P-Controlled-Output-Field-Soldering/dp/B000ICCZ4Y>

    We live in different worlds. I do mostly repairs these days. I have
    two ancient Weller WTCP soldering stations, three vacuum pump
    desoldering stations, and I have no idea how many non-motorized
    "solder pump" vacuum desoldering contraptions. Soldering is easier
    than desoldering.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

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  • From Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Sat Oct 5 23:34:04 2024
    On 05-10-2024 22:45, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sat, 5 Oct 2024 21:04:03 +0200, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

    I still have my first soldering iron, a Weller WECP-20 (so it's 40 years
    old). Use it as much as the Thermaltronics professional station. Comes
    in handy when I need something with more heat capacity.

    Also have a Weller WMRP. Heats up in 3 seconds:
    https://www.conradelektronik.dk/da/p/weller-wmrp-set-loddekolber-40-w-inkl-opbevaring-588538.html

    Nice. A fine tip would be nice but I do fine soldering with a hot air
    gun or a copper wire wrapped around the soldering tip (with plenty of
    flux). <https://www.instructables.com/Making-a-fine-tip-for-your-solding-iron-for-SMD-so/>
    My traveling kit has a TS101 style soldering iron which I don't use
    very often. Something like this: <https://www.amazon.com/TOOLSAGE-Kit-Programmable-TS101B-B2/dp/B0C39SPZXH>

    I have the TS100 iron, older version of ther TS101. Uses it when I am at clients that have few tools. Even some of the big firms I work for have
    very limited tool selection

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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Oct 5 15:15:24 2024
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 07:52:25 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> >>wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away
    and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    It shuts off in the middle of a measurement, and you have to rotate
    the very klunky range knob all the way back to OFF and then all the
    way back to where it was.

    It's OK for one-time measurements I guess, but terrible for bench >experiments.

    I agree. That's a serious problem.

    Some of the Extech meters have a way to disable auto power off. It's
    usually disarmed by holding down one of the buttons while turning on
    the meter. I couldn't find anything like that for the EX410A. I'll
    look again when I'm more awake.

    However, my Uni-T UT-210E does have a way to disable auto power off.
    From the user docs at: <https://meters.uni-trend.com/download/ut210e-user-manual/?wpdmdl=7228>

    - Automatic power-off: when measuring, if the rotary button has not
    pulled out in 15 minutes, the instrument will automatically power off
    to save energy. In automatic power-off mode, turn rotary button to OFF
    and restart the machine, or click any key to wake the instrument.

    - Turn off automatic power-off function: press and hold SELECT key,
    then power-on start, you will heard 5 buzzing which means automatic
    power-off function is cancelled. Turn off and restart the machine,
    automatic power-off function will be recovered.

    - The buzzer will send out 5 warnings 1 minute before automatic power
    off. A long buzz will be heard before power off When automatic power
    off function is canceled, you will hear 5 continuous warnings in every
    15 minutes.

    I just tested it and found that it works as described. Maybe a meter
    made by Uni-T might be less stupid. The manual doesn't mention that
    every time you turn the meter off, auto power off is re-enabled. You
    need to remember to hold down the SELECT button every time you turn it
    on. For bench use, I don't see this as much of a problem. For my
    use, which involves turning it on/off many times, it's still a
    problem.

    I mentioned that the UT-210E is hackable. See: <https://github.com/bdlow/UT210E?tab=readme-ov-file#modify-the-auto-off-and-backlight-times>
    The programming looks easy, but providing the adapter needed to
    program the DM24C02A EEPROM seems rather messy. For an 8 pin SOIC
    package, I would desolder the device and do the editing in an external programmer. Whether this is worthy of the time and effort involved is
    your decision.

    Extech was planning to introduce some thermal imagers, so FLIR bought
    them to stop it. That's all FLIR really cares about.

    I didn't know that. FLIR bought Extech in Oct, 2007. After 17 years
    and once FLIR owns the IP (intellectual property), I would have
    expected FLIR to sell off Extech in parts and pieces: <https://www.flir.com/about/about-flir/about-extech/>
    "In 2007, Extech was acquired by Teledyne FLIR, a global leader in
    innovative infrared thermal imaging solutions."
    Well maybe. FLIR did sell off Extech Data System, which made portable
    printers in 2009. Looks to me that FLIR had too much cash on hand and
    needed to buy something quickly:
    "FLIR Systems Reports Record Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2007
    Financial Results" <https://www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2008/02/07/1049954/0/en/FLIR-Systems-Reports-Record-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-2007-Financial-Results.html>
    "Cash provided by operations during the quarter was a record $55
    million. Cash used during the quarter included $40 million for the
    acquisition of Extech Instruments..."
    $50 million cash for Extech seems to me to have been a bargain
    purchase.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Sun Oct 6 01:43:44 2024
    On 06-10-2024 00:15, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 07:52:25 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away
    and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    It shuts off in the middle of a measurement, and you have to rotate
    the very klunky range knob all the way back to OFF and then all the
    way back to where it was.

    It's OK for one-time measurements I guess, but terrible for bench
    experiments.

    I agree. That's a serious problem.

    Some of the Extech meters have a way to disable auto power off. It's
    usually disarmed by holding down one of the buttons while turning on
    the meter. I couldn't find anything like that for the EX410A. I'll
    look again when I'm more awake.

    However, my Uni-T UT-210E does have a way to disable auto power off.
    From the user docs at: <https://meters.uni-trend.com/download/ut210e-user-manual/?wpdmdl=7228>

    - Automatic power-off: when measuring, if the rotary button has not
    pulled out in 15 minutes, the instrument will automatically power off
    to save energy. In automatic power-off mode, turn rotary button to OFF
    and restart the machine, or click any key to wake the instrument.

    - Turn off automatic power-off function: press and hold SELECT key,
    then power-on start, you will heard 5 buzzing which means automatic
    power-off function is cancelled. Turn off and restart the machine,
    automatic power-off function will be recovered.

    - The buzzer will send out 5 warnings 1 minute before automatic power
    off. A long buzz will be heard before power off When automatic power
    off function is canceled, you will hear 5 continuous warnings in every
    15 minutes.

    I just tested it and found that it works as described. Maybe a meter
    made by Uni-T might be less stupid. The manual doesn't mention that
    every time you turn the meter off, auto power off is re-enabled. You
    need to remember to hold down the SELECT button every time you turn it
    on. For bench use, I don't see this as much of a problem. For my
    use, which involves turning it on/off many times, it's still a
    problem.

    I mentioned that the UT-210E is hackable. See: <https://github.com/bdlow/UT210E?tab=readme-ov-file#modify-the-auto-off-and-backlight-times>
    The programming looks easy, but providing the adapter needed to
    program the DM24C02A EEPROM seems rather messy. For an 8 pin SOIC
    package, I would desolder the device and do the editing in an external programmer. Whether this is worthy of the time and effort involved is
    your decision.

    Extech was planning to introduce some thermal imagers, so FLIR bought
    them to stop it. That's all FLIR really cares about.

    I didn't know that. FLIR bought Extech in Oct, 2007. After 17 years
    and once FLIR owns the IP (intellectual property), I would have
    expected FLIR to sell off Extech in parts and pieces: <https://www.flir.com/about/about-flir/about-extech/>
    "In 2007, Extech was acquired by Teledyne FLIR, a global leader in
    innovative infrared thermal imaging solutions."
    Well maybe. FLIR did sell off Extech Data System, which made portable printers in 2009. Looks to me that FLIR had too much cash on hand and
    needed to buy something quickly:
    "FLIR Systems Reports Record Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2007
    Financial Results" <https://www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2008/02/07/1049954/0/en/FLIR-Systems-Reports-Record-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-2007-Financial-Results.html>
    "Cash provided by operations during the quarter was a record $55
    million. Cash used during the quarter included $40 million for the acquisition of Extech Instruments..."
    $50 million cash for Extech seems to me to have been a bargain
    purchase.

    For IR measurements for handheld, I use Seek Thermal:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GX8XTG5/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

    And for table top:

    https://www.dyt-ir.com/dytspectrumowl-ca-60-rd-grade-thermal-analyzer-with-macro-lens-product/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 5 17:30:03 2024
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 14:37:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:
    (chomp)
    I remember the Wellers from work, had one for years at home too.

    I remember and like the reassuring clicking sound of the "magnastat"
    contacts. If I don't hear the clicking, I know something is seriously
    wrong (such as the contacts welded together).

    As to rechargable AAA and AA I use 'Eneloop' batteries,
    self discharge is almost zero, nice in a small flashlight (always light even if not used in ages)
    in TV remotes, even in my gamma spectrometer.

    NiMH generally work well in devices that will tolerate low voltages.
    Eneloop cells start out at about 1.5V and expected to work down to
    1.2V. Most of the meters and gadgets fail at 1.3V and below. My
    guess(tm) is that the meter starts to complain that it wants a charge
    when about 40% of the capacity is still left in the battery. Most of
    the equipment I've seen is designed to use alkaline cells which has a
    higher voltage range.

    There are also consistence problems and matching issues with NiMH: <https://eneloop101.com/batteries/eneloop-test-results/>

    Fun with shorting alakline batteries: <https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>

    I have some AA lifepo4 and a 250 Ah big 12V lifepo4 pack with a 2 kW 50 Hz DC/ AC converter
    that can power my fridge or even a cooking plate or a microwave if needed.
    https://panteltje.online/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG
    Flexible solar cells I can lay out in the garden... and a charger for the battery pack.

    I have a gasoline generator for running my two refrigerators. I tried
    using batteries and an inverter, but they couldn't tolerate the
    required peak surge current of the refrigerators. Generators are also
    useful for drying my gloves.
    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/WDezqtWsXkfubmdJ8>
    I have two LiFePO4 batteries: <https://www.bioennopower.com/products/12v-20ah-lfp-battery>
    I plan to use them in running my networking and media (TV) equipment,
    which I'm slowly converting to run on 12V DC power. I live in the
    deep dark forest, where solar power is not practical. I do have a 160
    watt panel that works for a few hours during summer and doesn't work
    at all during winter.

    I do use a lipo in my weather station, one 3V lipo + a short (Ohm) AAA battery >to replace 2 1.5 V batteries, same in one remote.

    Ok, that works. My problem with do-it-thyself battery power systems
    is they usually are missing the BMS (battery management system). A
    BMS is mandatory for Lithium-Anything system.

    The weather station runs a few month on that before it needs a re-charge.

    I solved that problem a few years ago by convincing a neighbor to buy
    a "no moving parts" weather station for about $300. <https://tempestwx.com/station/76665/grid> <https://shop.tempest.earth/products/tempest>
    I get to play with it and he gets to deal with maintenance issues.

    The remote I do not remember having recharged in a few years...

    I have a bad habit called "YouTube". Google allows free streaming on
    YouTube, but adds an overdose of commercials. The commercials are
    tolerable because Google allows me to skip forward with the touch of a
    button on the remote control. Unfortunately, my remote is by Roku,
    which is not very well constructed, and with the upcoming election,
    the number of commercial interruptions have grown substantially. I
    haven't counted, but I would guess(tm) that I need to push the same
    remote button 100 times per day. The average life of my remote
    control buttons is about 3 months. A remote doesn't last long enough
    for me to worry about charging. I stuff in whatever AAA alkaline
    cells I can find and use the remote until it dies. <https://www.roku.com/products/accessories>

    And have several lipo 2 and 3 cell models for my drones:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/3cell_40C_ebay_lipo_IMG_6682.JPG

    I have 2 drones. I haven't flown either drone for about 6 years.
    Flying a drone in the trees is a really bad idea. Also, the county
    government and FCC have various restrictions that make legal drone
    flying without a commercial license almost impossible. For
    entertainment I've become rather adept at indoor drone flying. I
    can't find any photos. Remind me to take some photos if you're
    interested.

    And ofcourse many of these in different projects:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/SWR_bridge_wired_IMG_5013.JPG https://panteltje.online/pub/SWR_bridge_on_dummy_load_IMG_5046.JPG

    I'll pretend to be polite and not say anything about the wiring.

    As a kid I started with 4.5 V batteries...

    I'm still a kid.
    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jeffl@cruzio.com on Sun Oct 6 06:04:58 2024
    On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Oct 2024 17:30:03 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <ugj3gjp918lmu1b7fipb2vqe4a2kucgf5q@4ax.com>:

    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 14:37:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:
    (chomp)
    I remember the Wellers from work, had one for years at home too.

    I remember and like the reassuring clicking sound of the "magnastat" >contacts. If I don't hear the clicking, I know something is seriously
    wrong (such as the contacts welded together).

    As to rechargable AAA and AA I use 'Eneloop' batteries,
    self discharge is almost zero, nice in a small flashlight (always light even if not used in ages)
    in TV remotes, even in my gamma spectrometer.

    NiMH generally work well in devices that will tolerate low voltages.
    Eneloop cells start out at about 1.5V and expected to work down to
    1.2V. Most of the meters and gadgets fail at 1.3V and below. My
    guess(tm) is that the meter starts to complain that it wants a charge
    when about 40% of the capacity is still left in the battery. Most of
    the equipment I've seen is designed to use alkaline cells which has a
    higher voltage range.

    There are also consistence problems and matching issues with NiMH: ><https://eneloop101.com/batteries/eneloop-test-results/>

    Wow, some test site.
    Eneloop looks good, oldest onces I have are AAA from 2010 ...
    still going fine, some in remotes, one in an inside/outside temperature meter

    I have a DCF radio-clock with eneloop too.




    Fun with shorting alakline batteries: ><https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>

    I gave up on Duracell long ago, when the AA rechargebles I bought for a lot of money
    did not keepd their charge even for a few days!
    I still have those, repeated test once .. some result.. crap.


    I have some AA lifepo4 and a 250 Ah big 12V lifepo4 pack with a 2 kW 50 Hz DC/ AC converter
    that can power my fridge or even a cooking plate or a microwave if needed.
    https://panteltje.online/pub/250_Ah_12V_to_230V_sinewave_IXXIMG_0796.JPG >>Flexible solar cells I can lay out in the garden... and a charger for the battery pack.

    I have a gasoline generator for running my two refrigerators. I tried
    using batteries and an inverter, but they couldn't tolerate the
    required peak surge current of the refrigerators. Generators are also
    useful for drying my gloves.
    <https://photos.app.goo.gl/WDezqtWsXkfubmdJ8>

    Yes, that is nice

    No generator here, but I am considering buying something like this:
    https://tesup.com/uk/tesup-vertical-wind-turbines-for-homes
    there is more wind than sun here :-)


    I have two LiFePO4 batteries: ><https://www.bioennopower.com/products/12v-20ah-lfp-battery>

    That is very expensive,
    I payed $872.14 for my 12 V Lifepo4 250 Ah battery pack from Aliexpress.


    I plan to use them in running my networking and media (TV) equipment,
    which I'm slowly converting to run on 12V DC power. I live in the
    deep dark forest, where solar power is not practical. I do have a 160
    watt panel that works for a few hours during summer and doesn't work
    at all during winter.

    Well, I am more lucky with a huge garden where the wind can blow,
    A wind generator on the roof would produce a LOT of power here,
    but might blow away in the next storm, we just had one.
    But in the garden, why not?
    Can you not mount something on top of an old tree?


    I do use a lipo in my weather station, one 3V lipo + a short (Ohm) AAA battery
    to replace 2 1.5 V batteries, same in one remote.

    Ok, that works. My problem with do-it-thyself battery power systems
    is they usually are missing the BMS (battery management system). A
    BMS is mandatory for Lithium-Anything system.

    The weather station runs a few month on that before it needs a re-charge.

    I solved that problem a few years ago by convincing a neighbor to buy
    a "no moving parts" weather station for about $300. ><https://tempestwx.com/station/76665/grid> ><https://shop.tempest.earth/products/tempest>
    I get to play with it and he gets to deal with maintenance issues.


    Better than mine, mine only does temperature and humidity, sends data via RF to an in-house receiver.
    I also log it to a file, receive it with an RTL-SDR stick connected to a Raspberry Pi.
    I have been experimenting with wind speed - and direction sensors based on temperature differences:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/wind_pic_thermal_udp/
    and by using ultrasonics:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/wind_speed_by_differential_2_ebay_distance_meters_IMG_4891.JPG
    these are 2 dolar ultrasonic distance meters from ebay..


    The remote I do not remember having recharged in a few years...

    I have a bad habit called "YouTube". Google allows free streaming on >YouTube, but adds an overdose of commercials. The commercials are
    tolerable because Google allows me to skip forward with the touch of a
    button on the remote control. Unfortunately, my remote is by Roku,
    which is not very well constructed, and with the upcoming election,
    the number of commercial interruptions have grown substantially. I
    haven't counted, but I would guess(tm) that I need to push the same
    remote button 100 times per day. The average life of my remote
    control buttons is about 3 months. A remote doesn't last long enough
    for me to worry about charging. I stuff in whatever AAA alkaline
    cells I can find and use the remote until it dies. ><https://www.roku.com/products/accessories>

    Interesting thing, just bought a new Samsung TV a few month ago,
    its remote works on RF, not IR, and it has a solar cell and a build in fixed rechargable battery....
    The remote works even from an other room, no need to point it at the TV either, very small,
    very few buttons... controls menus on the screen.
    https://www.samsung.com/levant/tvs/smart-tv/one-remote/
    seems it can learn IR commands too? have not tried that.


    And have several lipo 2 and 3 cell models for my drones:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/3cell_40C_ebay_lipo_IMG_6682.JPG

    I have 2 drones. I haven't flown either drone for about 6 years.
    Flying a drone in the trees is a really bad idea. Also, the county >government and FCC have various restrictions that make legal drone
    flying without a commercial license almost impossible. For
    entertainment I've become rather adept at indoor drone flying. I
    can't find any photos. Remind me to take some photos if you're
    interested.

    Well, I did some testing writing quadcopter code, these days useful for bombing I guess:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/quadcopter/index.html
    but now I am close to a mil airport, and drone flying is forbidden here...
    I have a bigger delta wing drone too:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/axion_laser_arrow_in_open_box_IMG_3799.GIF


    And ofcourse many of these in different projects:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/SWR_bridge_wired_IMG_5013.JPG
    https://panteltje.online/pub/SWR_bridge_on_dummy_load_IMG_5046.JPG

    I'll pretend to be polite and not say anything about the wiring.

    Ah, how 'bout this then?
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/z80/sound_card_bottom.jpg


    As a kid I started with 4.5 V batteries...

    I'm still a kid.

    Sure, almost 80 here ...

    I am still running around, biking, writing code and soldering with 60/40.
    lead bad?
    ;-)
    Inhaled resin smoke all my life,

    BTW that Voltcraft soldering iron has adjustable preset temperatures,
    so no special tips needed like a Weller.
    Also I >never use a wet sponge< on the tips,
    I clean tips with a piece of kleenex or even toilet paper, or rub it against the lead..
    Using wet sponges kills your soldering tips, it is a sales trick.
    I have tips that still look fine after 24 years.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Oct 6 15:53:09 2024
    On 06-10-2024 08:04, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Oct 2024 17:30:03 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <ugj3gjp918lmu1b7fipb2vqe4a2kucgf5q@4ax.com>:

    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 14:37:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:
    (chomp)
    I remember the Wellers from work, had one for years at home too.

    I remember and like the reassuring clicking sound of the "magnastat"
    contacts. If I don't hear the clicking, I know something is seriously
    wrong (such as the contacts welded together).

    As to rechargable AAA and AA I use 'Eneloop' batteries,
    self discharge is almost zero, nice in a small flashlight (always light even if not used in ages)
    in TV remotes, even in my gamma spectrometer.

    NiMH generally work well in devices that will tolerate low voltages.
    Eneloop cells start out at about 1.5V and expected to work down to
    1.2V. Most of the meters and gadgets fail at 1.3V and below. My
    guess(tm) is that the meter starts to complain that it wants a charge
    when about 40% of the capacity is still left in the battery. Most of
    the equipment I've seen is designed to use alkaline cells which has a
    higher voltage range.

    There are also consistence problems and matching issues with NiMH:
    <https://eneloop101.com/batteries/eneloop-test-results/>

    Wow, some test site.

    This guy from Denmark has done a lot of testing, also on USB adapters:

    https://lygte-info.dk/review/batteries2012/Yucel%20Y12-6L%206V%2012Ah%20UK.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 6 07:28:19 2024
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 17:30:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 14:37:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:
    (chomp)
    I remember the Wellers from work, had one for years at home too.

    I remember and like the reassuring clicking sound of the "magnastat" >contacts. If I don't hear the clicking, I know something is seriously
    wrong (such as the contacts welded together).


    I think they used a Curie effect magetic path to switch the heater
    contacts. Metcal uses Curie effect without the contacts.

    Seems to me that a thermocouple and a heater would work as well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From legg@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 6 12:49:13 2024
    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away
    and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    EX410:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex410a/>

    I have two Extech EX470 DMM's:
    <https://www.flir.com/products/ex470a>
    Presumably, the auto power off function is similar.

    I've had both DMM's for over 10 years and use them often. I've had no >difficulties except with various 9V batteries. I got tired of
    replacing them. Over the last 5 or so years, I've experimented with
    two types of rechargeable Li-Ion 9V batteries.

    The ones without an internal battery charger had self-discharge
    problems:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/304501384792>
    They work, but I wouldn't recommend them.

    The batteries I'm using now, which have a built in charger, are
    better:
    <https://www.ebay.com/itm/386563315011>

    If your complaint about the auto power off feature involves some
    leakage current when the auto power off feature has turned off, these >batteries might help.

    I just measured the battery drains in my Extech EX470.
    Time to power off: 30 mins
    Operating battery current: 5.4 ma
    Power off after timeout: 0.02 ma
    Power off using rotary switch: <0.01 ma

    I also have a Uni-T UT210E. ><https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut210-series/>
    I bought it for automotive use because of the "clamp on" DC Ammeter
    feature. 3 DC scales (2, 20, 100 Amps DC) using a hall effect device.
    It's sensitive to nearby metal objects at <1A DC. Switching from
    between AC and DC is not logical. When switching ranges, it also
    switches from DC -> AC. When using the hall effect ammeter, resetting
    to zero has to be done fairly often. It uses two AAA alkaline cells.
    NiMH will barely work due to low voltage. Li-Ion AAA are available
    but I haven't tried any (yet):
    <https://www.xtar.cc/aa-aaa-battery.html> ><https://www.ebay.com/itm/364640309348>
    Otherwise, I like Uni-T.

    Also, some hacking is possible: ><https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-look-at-the-uni-t-ut210e/>

    These are the ones that give a warning beep, but there's
    nothing you can do to prevent it from turning itself off,
    after the warning?

    Hillarious.

    I've got it permanently attached to a thermocouple. Turn
    it on to measure once, then screw it. Next time . . .

    Wouldn't use it for anything running on a bench test.

    Could you imagine four of these things beeping at you
    in the middle of a crucial measurement cycle?

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 6 10:56:14 2024
    On Sun, 06 Oct 2024 06:04:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Oct 2024 17:30:03 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann ><jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <ugj3gjp918lmu1b7fipb2vqe4a2kucgf5q@4ax.com>: >>There are also consistence problems and matching issues with NiMH: >><https://eneloop101.com/batteries/eneloop-test-results/>

    Wow, some test site.

    Yes. I find the best web sites when I'm looking for something else.

    Eneloop looks good, oldest onces I have are AAA from 2010 ...
    still going fine, some in remotes, one in an inside/outside temperature meter >I have a DCF radio-clock with eneloop too.

    Will your DCF radio clock operate at 1.2VDC (or less) at the radios
    "normal" current drain? Actually, yours probably uses two cell in
    series, so that should be 2.4VDC. The better NiMH cells provide 1.2V
    with a very light load: <https://eneloop101.com/wp-content/uploads/eneloop-sanyo-white-1900-mah-cell-2007-2017-10-year-battery_-capacity-test.png>
    Disabling the receiver for most of the day and only operating it for a
    few minutes when propagation is good (after midnight), isn't
    sufficient. The battery voltage might be higher than 1.2V when the
    receiver is off, but as soon as the receiver comes on, and the current
    drain increases, the voltage will drop below 1.2V. I forgot how much
    lower. I did some polarization testing with an Oregon Scientific Time
    Machine using WWVB. It ran on two AAA cells. Alkaline and
    carbon-zinc worked well, but NiMH lost considerable sensitivity as the
    battery aged:
    <https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/WWVB%20test/> <https://www.ebay.com/itm/387144016757>
    I just found the device. If I get ambitious or bored, I'll put the
    clock on a variable voltage power supply and see how it handles low
    battery voltages.

    Fun with shorting alakline batteries: >><https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>

    I gave up on Duracell long ago, when the AA rechargebles I bought for a lot of money
    did not keepd their charge even for a few days!
    I still have those, repeated test once .. some result.. crap.

    The photos are not of a common Duracell leaking electrolyte, but
    rather of a premium Duracell exploding inside its metal case. There's
    a small chance that this 9V battery was a counterfeit, but it's too
    late to check.

    No generator here, but I am considering buying something like this:
    https://tesup.com/uk/tesup-vertical-wind-turbines-for-homes
    there is more wind than sun here :-)

    Ummm... A tiny desktop vertical rotating turbine is not likely to
    produce 10 Kw of power. The unspecified size solar panel might
    produce 10 Kw, but a small desktop device will only deliver a few
    watts at best.

    I've had some experience with vertical turbine generators. In a
    strong wind, they can't be feathered and will usually rip the base out
    of the roof or whatever it's mounted on. They also make far too much
    noise. When ground mounted, the part of the vertical turbine blades
    near the ground don't contribute much power.

    I suggest you do some reading before you waste your money: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical-axis_wind_turbine>

    I have two LiFePO4 batteries: >><https://www.bioennopower.com/products/12v-20ah-lfp-battery>

    That is very expensive,
    I payed $872.14 for my 12 V Lifepo4 250 Ah battery pack from Aliexpress.

    I didn't pay anywhere near full price for the two batteries. I don't
    want to explain how I obtained the batteries but I will assure you
    that I didn't steal them.

    Well, I am more lucky with a huge garden where the wind can blow,
    A wind generator on the roof would produce a LOT of power here,
    but might blow away in the next storm, we just had one.
    But in the garden, why not?
    Can you not mount something on top of an old tree?

    Again, you can't easily feather a vertical wind turbine. There's no
    easy way to point the vertical turbine blades perpendicular to the
    wind. The only way to slow down the rotation is with some form of
    brake, which essentially converts the wind energy into heat. Imagine
    your turbine dissipating 10 Kw of heat continuously.

    I solved that problem a few years ago by convincing a neighbor to buy
    a "no moving parts" weather station for about $300. >><https://tempestwx.com/station/76665/grid> >><https://shop.tempest.earth/products/tempest>
    I get to play with it and he gets to deal with maintenance issues.

    Better than mine, mine only does temperature and humidity, sends data via RF to an in-house receiver.
    I also log it to a file, receive it with an RTL-SDR stick connected to a Raspberry Pi.
    I have been experimenting with wind speed - and direction sensors based on temperature differences:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/wind_pic_thermal_udp/
    and by using ultrasonics:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/wind_speed_by_differential_2_ebay_distance_meters_IMG_4891.JPG
    these are 2 dolar ultrasonic distance meters from ebay..

    That's roughly the way the Tempest weather station works. I suggest
    you look at the available data sheet, feature list, and software
    before you reinvent the device. Communications is via Wi-Fi: <https://shop.tempest.earth/products/hub> <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lks6lIb5gGM>

    See "Technical Questions" near middle of FAQ: <https://tempest.earth/frequently-asked-questions/>
    How does the ultrasonic anemometer work?
    The ultra-sonic anemometer is composed of 4 transducers housed in the
    top of the device. The Tempest measures wind speed and direction based
    on the time of flight of ultrasonic pulses between pairs of
    transducers. This allows for a high degree of accuracy especially in
    variable wind conditions. An ultrasonic sensor is very good at
    detecting light winds and has an advantage over mechanical sensors
    which require momentum to rotate their bearings. Tempest’s ultrasonic anemometer has an upper detection limit of 100mph (~160 kmph). Any
    wind speeds above this threshold may be outside of accuracy
    specifications.

    Well, I did some testing writing quadcopter code, these days useful for bombing I guess:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/quadcopter/index.html

    Sorry, but exploding drones have been replaced by exploding pagers.

    I'll pretend to be polite and not say anything about the wiring.

    Ah, how 'bout this then?
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/z80/sound_card_bottom.jpg

    The wiring is (barely) tolerable. However, whatever animal droppings
    you used for flux is beyond disgusting. I suggest baptizing your
    wiring maze in some alcohol, which should remove the brown goo and
    make your masterpiece presentable.

    As a kid I started with 4.5 V batteries...

    I'm still a kid.

    Sure, almost 80 here ...

    I'm 76 and holding. <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/jeffl-wolf.gif>

    I am still running around, biking, writing code and soldering with 60/40. >lead bad?
    ;-)
    Inhaled resin smoke all my life,

    I've given up running and cycling and downsized to walking and hiking. <https://www.strava.com/athletes/103870441> <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/5bikes.JPG>
    I don't write code. Many years ago, I had to choose between a career
    in hardware or software. I chose hardware because it was less likely
    to be automated into insignificance. So far, I think I made the right
    choice.

    I still use 63/37 tin-lead solder, but have forced myself to tolerate
    using ROHS dross. I have separate soldering and desoldering stations
    on my bench, one for each blend. There's are two small fans blowing
    the fumes towards the wall behind my bench, which has slowly changed
    from white to brown. I make my own rosin flux from pine tree sap and
    isopropyl alcohol. It's very organic, substitutes nicely for incense
    and might even be healthy.

    BTW that Voltcraft soldering iron has adjustable preset temperatures,
    so no special tips needed like a Weller.
    Also I >never use a wet sponge< on the tips,
    I clean tips with a piece of kleenex or even toilet paper, or rub it against the lead..
    Using wet sponges kills your soldering tips, it is a sales trick.
    I have tips that still look fine after 24 years.

    I didn't know that. I use cellulose sponges and water for tip
    cleaning. I also use some brass "wool" tip cleaners. For the big
    irons, I use a sal ammoniac (ammonium chloride) block. When I bought
    the box of Weller soldering station parts many years ago, it came with
    about 50 dirty Weller tips. I soon determined that the company that
    provided me with these irons had a policy of not cleaning tips. When
    a tip became dirty with burned flux, it was replaced with a new tip.
    After some experimenting, I managed to clean almost all the tips, some
    of which I still use today.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sun Oct 6 11:17:42 2024
    On Sun, 06 Oct 2024 07:28:19 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 17:30:03 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 14:37:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
    (chomp)
    I remember the Wellers from work, had one for years at home too.

    I remember and like the reassuring clicking sound of the "magnastat" >>contacts. If I don't hear the clicking, I know something is seriously >>wrong (such as the contacts welded together).


    I think they used a Curie effect magetic path to switch the heater
    contacts.

    Yes, that's how they work. <https://codeandlife.com/2012/03/06/weller-magnastat-autopsy-and-repair/>

    Metcal uses Curie effect without the contacts.

    I don't know much about Metcal except that some model soldering irons
    use RF heating.

    Seems to me that a thermocouple and a heater would work as well.

    It would in the 21st century. The Weller "magnastat" patent was first
    patented in 1960: <https://patentimages.storage.googleapis.com/c1/64/21/caa2840db8db26/US3662152.pdf>
    The soldering stations electronics consisted of a 115V to 24V
    transformer, a fuse, a switch, and a light. No complicated
    temperature controller needed or easily available in 1960's. Later,
    they replaced the marginally reliable contacts with proper
    electronics, but kept the Curie Effect tip.

    I believe that the largest advance in soldering technology was the
    hollow tip, which allowed locating the temperature sensor very close
    to the tip. We would not have tiny soldering tips, fast warm up time
    and accurate temperature control, without the hollow tip.

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jeffl@cruzio.com on Mon Oct 7 07:25:27 2024
    On a sunny day (Sun, 06 Oct 2024 10:56:14 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <cmd5gj12l7q8bqflsd6lcj9t6mr4feipnu@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 06 Oct 2024 06:04:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 05 Oct 2024 17:30:03 -0700) it happened Jeff Liebermann >><jeffl@cruzio.com> wrote in <ugj3gjp918lmu1b7fipb2vqe4a2kucgf5q@4ax.com>: >>>There are also consistence problems and matching issues with NiMH: >>><https://eneloop101.com/batteries/eneloop-test-results/>

    Wow, some test site.

    Yes. I find the best web sites when I'm looking for something else.

    Eneloop looks good, oldest onces I have are AAA from 2010 ...
    still going fine, some in remotes, one in an inside/outside temperature meter >>I have a DCF radio-clock with eneloop too.

    Will your DCF radio clock operate at 1.2VDC (or less) at the radios
    "normal" current drain? Actually, yours probably uses two cell in
    series, so that should be 2.4VDC.

    Nope, one big AA, using an Eneloop
    Top left one:
    https://www.google.com/search?q=xiron+radio-controlled+-+DCF&client=firefox-b-e&sca_esv=7190e4524bdedbd5&tbm=isch

    Runs for years on the eneloop
    In use now for 20 years? displays room temperature too.



    The better NiMH cells provide 1.2V
    with a very light load: ><https://eneloop101.com/wp-content/uploads/eneloop-sanyo-white-1900-mah-cell-2007-2017-10-year-battery_-capacity-test.png>
    Disabling the receiver for most of the day and only operating it for a
    few minutes when propagation is good (after midnight), isn't
    sufficient. The battery voltage might be higher than 1.2V when the
    receiver is off, but as soon as the receiver comes on, and the current
    drain increases, the voltage will drop below 1.2V. I forgot how much
    lower. I did some polarization testing with an Oregon Scientific Time >Machine using WWVB. It ran on two AAA cells. Alkaline and
    carbon-zinc worked well, but NiMH lost considerable sensitivity as the >battery aged:
    <https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/WWVB%20test/> ><https://www.ebay.com/itm/387144016757>

    Looks antiue, has that ferrite antenna rod separate..

    I actually am waering a Casio waveceptor radio watch...
    That one uses a 3 V cell, just replaced that cell a while back,
    should last 2 years.
    https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/casio-wave-ceptor-wv-58r-1aef-herenhorloge-43-mmmm-zwart/9300000047976469/
    Used the ooportunity to buy some watchmaker tools, I come fro ma watchmaker family,
    my uncle had a jewel and watch repair shop.



    I just found the device. If I get ambitious or bored, I'll put the
    clock on a variable voltage power supply and see how it handles low
    battery voltages.



    Fun with shorting alakline batteries: >>><https://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/Duracell/index.html>

    I gave up on Duracell long ago, when the AA rechargebles I bought for a lot of money
    did not keepd their charge even for a few days!
    I still have those, repeated test once .. some result.. crap.

    The photos are not of a common Duracell leaking electrolyte, but
    rather of a premium Duracell exploding inside its metal case. There's
    a small chance that this 9V battery was a counterfeit, but it's too
    late to check.

    No generator here, but I am considering buying something like this:
    https://tesup.com/uk/tesup-vertical-wind-turbines-for-homes
    there is more wind than sun here :-)

    Ummm... A tiny desktop vertical rotating turbine is not likely to
    produce 10 Kw of power. The unspecified size solar panel might
    produce 10 Kw, but a small desktop device will only deliver a few
    watts at best.

    I've had some experience with vertical turbine generators. In a
    strong wind, they can't be feathered and will usually rip the base out
    of the roof or whatever it's mounted on. They also make far too much
    noise. When ground mounted, the part of the vertical turbine blades
    near the ground don't contribute much power.

    I suggest you do some reading before you waste your money: ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vertical-axis_wind_turbine>

    Nice link, I will study that and look up some of that stuff.
    One idea I have is to use it on a catamaran boat with electric drive.
    Testing on land would give some idea ...
    Same for my flexible solar panels...




    I have two LiFePO4 batteries: >>><https://www.bioennopower.com/products/12v-20ah-lfp-battery>

    That is very expensive,
    I payed $872.14 for my 12 V Lifepo4 250 Ah battery pack from Aliexpress.

    I didn't pay anywhere near full price for the two batteries. I don't
    want to explain how I obtained the batteries but I will assure you
    that I didn't steal them.

    Well, I am more lucky with a huge garden where the wind can blow,
    A wind generator on the roof would produce a LOT of power here,
    but might blow away in the next storm, we just had one.
    But in the garden, why not?
    Can you not mount something on top of an old tree?

    Again, you can't easily feather a vertical wind turbine. There's no
    easy way to point the vertical turbine blades perpendicular to the
    wind. The only way to slow down the rotation is with some form of
    brake, which essentially converts the wind energy into heat. Imagine
    your turbine dissipating 10 Kw of heat continuously.

    When used to charge a battery pack, just lock it fixed when the battery is full?
    Or pull a hull across it?? Dynamically if needed?
    Seem no real problem to me.


    I solved that problem a few years ago by convincing a neighbor to buy
    a "no moving parts" weather station for about $300. >>><https://tempestwx.com/station/76665/grid> >>><https://shop.tempest.earth/products/tempest>
    I get to play with it and he gets to deal with maintenance issues.

    Better than mine, mine only does temperature and humidity, sends data via RF to an in-house receiver.
    I also log it to a file, receive it with an RTL-SDR stick connected to a Raspberry Pi.
    I have been experimenting with wind speed - and direction sensors based on temperature differences:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/wind_pic_thermal_udp/
    and by using ultrasonics:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/wind_speed_by_differential_2_ebay_distance_meters_IMG_4891.JPG
    these are 2 dolar ultrasonic distance meters from ebay..

    That's roughly the way the Tempest weather station works. I suggest
    you look at the available data sheet, feature list, and software
    before you reinvent the device. Communications is via Wi-Fi: ><https://shop.tempest.earth/products/hub>

    That link fails, with 'page does not exists'

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lks6lIb5gGM>

    See "Technical Questions" near middle of FAQ: ><https://tempest.earth/frequently-asked-questions/>
    How does the ultrasonic anemometer work?
    The ultra-sonic anemometer is composed of 4 transducers housed in the
    top of the device. The Tempest measures wind speed and direction based
    on the time of flight of ultrasonic pulses between pairs of
    transducers. This allows for a high degree of accuracy especially in
    variable wind conditions. An ultrasonic sensor is very good at
    detecting light winds and has an advantage over mechanical sensors
    which require momentum to rotate their bearings. Tempest’s ultrasonic >anemometer has an upper detection limit of 100mph (~160 kmph). Any
    wind speeds above this threshold may be outside of accuracy
    specifications.


    Yes, sure, but it is fun to make your own for <10 dollars.
    https://www.ebay.nl/itm/185960647108
    the input is a trigger pulse,
    the output is a pulse, arriving later if more distance.
    Unsolder the RX unit and put it at the other side,
    then the time between trigger and pulse changes with the wind strength in that direction
    That was 1 dollar
    Now use a second one TX and RX on opposite side,
    trigger from the same source,
    If no wind then the RX pulses arrive at the same time.
    any temperature and air pressure and what not cancels.
    When wind blows you can xor the RX pulses .. or use a micro.
    that makes 2 dollars
    Now do the same for north-southy if the first one was east-west
    That makes 4 dollars.
    And add a Microchip PIC micro for 3 dollars plus some parts...
    Lots of fun to experiment
    I do also have a hand held wind strength meter for on a boat.

    There are many fun ultrasonic experiments, this used old ultrasonic transducers from very old TV remotes:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/acoustic_wind_speed_phase_only_test_setup_IMG_4887.JPG
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/listening_to_ultrasonics_IMG_5145.JPG

    Time of flight test in wind tunnel:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/44kHz_radar_time_of_flight_test_in_wind_tunnel_IMG_4105.JPG



    Well, I did some testing writing quadcopter code, these days useful for bombing I guess:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/quadcopter/index.html

    Sorry, but exploding drones have been replaced by exploding pagers.

    No, drones are in, Seems Netherlands is going to help YouCrane with drones (was in the news today here)
    There used to ba a guy that posted here that was working for drones for the mil.
    He mysteriously stopped posting after I did that drone experiment...
    I may still have some postings from him saved.



    I'll pretend to be polite and not say anything about the wiring.

    Ah, how 'bout this then?
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/z80/sound_card_bottom.jpg

    The wiring is (barely) tolerable. However, whatever animal droppings
    you used for flux is beyond disgusting. I suggest baptizing your
    wiring maze in some alcohol, which should remove the brown goo and
    make your masterpiece presentable.

    As a kid I started with 4.5 V batteries...

    I'm still a kid.

    Sure, almost 80 here ...

    I'm 76 and holding. ><http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/jeffl/jeffl-wolf.gif>

    Yea same hare:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/live/index.html



    I am still running around, biking, writing code and soldering with 60/40. >>lead bad?
    ;-)
    Inhaled resin smoke all my life,

    I've given up running and cycling and downsized to walking and hiking. ><https://www.strava.com/athletes/103870441>


    As a kid my parent had me subscribed to some walking club
    Got many medals for walks I completed...

    Was fun, mostly for the places we went,..
    Then when I got hold of a bike I went far away...

    <http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/pics/bicycles/5bikes.JPG>

    WOW, I only got once, and its old, but OK for shopping (supermarket is in a nearby vllage a few miles from here).


    I don't write code. Many years ago, I had to choose between a career
    in hardware or software. I chose hardware because it was less likely
    to be automated into insignificance. So far, I think I made the right >choice.

    Well, in the seventoes I bought a Sinclair ZX80, started playing with it
    then bought the book 'computer interface techniques'
    https://archive.org/details/MicroprocessorInterfacingTechniques_3rd_ed
    and things took of from tehre...
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/z80/index.html
    wrote my own CP/M clone and designed hardware
    Before you knew the ZX80 had a floppy drive and all sorts of stuff:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/z80/system14/diagrams/index.html
    I already had met Unix when working at the local accelerator,
    so when I got hold of a Linux distro in 1998 it was Linux from then on.
    At work later I was designing stuff on PCI cards for in the IBM PC.. more stuff.
    You canot do much without software these days, using a simple i2c chip will aready need it.


    I still use 63/37 tin-lead solder, but have forced myself to tolerate
    using ROHS dross. I have separate soldering and desoldering stations
    on my bench, one for each blend. There's are two small fans blowing
    the fumes towards the wall behind my bench, which has slowly changed
    from white to brown. I make my own rosin flux from pine tree sap and >isopropyl alcohol. It's very organic, substitutes nicely for incense
    and might even be healthy.

    Neat :-)
    Yes I have a small fan that I sometimes use too, but smoke gets everywhere..



    BTW that Voltcraft soldering iron has adjustable preset temperatures,
    so no special tips needed like a Weller.
    Also I >never use a wet sponge< on the tips,
    I clean tips with a piece of kleenex or even toilet paper, or rub it against the lead..
    Using wet sponges kills your soldering tips, it is a sales trick.
    I have tips that still look fine after 24 years.

    I didn't know that. I use cellulose sponges and water for tip
    cleaning. I also use some brass "wool" tip cleaners. For the big
    irons, I use a sal ammoniac (ammonium chloride) block. When I bought
    the box of Weller soldering station parts many years ago, it came with
    about 50 dirty Weller tips. I soon determined that the company that
    provided me with these irons had a policy of not cleaning tips. When
    a tip became dirty with burned flux, it was replaced with a new tip.
    After some experimenting, I managed to clean almost all the tips, some
    of which I still use today.

    Good!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Martin Rid@21:1/5 to Jeff Liebermann on Tue Oct 8 19:14:04 2024
    Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com> Wrote in message:r
    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>wrote:>Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy>>The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away>and get something usable.What don't you like about the auto power off
    feature in the EX410A?EX410:<https://www.flir.com/products/ex410a/>I have two Extech EX470 DMM's:<https://www.flir.com/products/ex470a>Presumably, the auto power off function is similar.I've had both DMM's for over 10 years and use them often. I've had
    nodifficulties except with various 9V batteries. I got tired ofreplacing them. Over the last 5 or so years, I've experimented withtwo types of rechargeable Li-Ion 9V batteries. The ones without an internal battery charger had self-dischargeproblems:<
    https://www.ebay.com/itm/304501384792>They work, but I wouldn't recommend them.The batteries I'm using now, which have a built in charger, arebetter:<https://www.ebay.com/itm/386563315011>If your complaint about the auto power off feature involves
    someleakage current when the auto power off feature has turned off, thesebatteries might help. I just measured the battery drains in my Extech EX470. Time to power off: 30 mins Operating battery current: 5.4 ma Power off after timeout: 0.02 ma
    Power off using rotary switch: <0.01 maI also have a Uni-T UT210E. <https://meters.uni-trend.com/product/ut210-series/>I bought it for automotive use because of the "clamp on" DC Ammeterfeature. 3 DC scales (2, 20, 100 Amps DC) using a hall effect
    device.It's sensitive to nearby metal objects at <1A DC. Switching frombetween AC and DC is not logical. When switching ranges, it alsoswitches from DC -> AC. When using the hall effect ammeter, resettingto zero has to be done fairly often. It uses
    two AAA alkaline cells.NiMH will barely work due to low voltage. Li-Ion AAA are availablebut I haven't tried any (yet):<https://www.xtar.cc/aa-aaa-battery.html><https://www.ebay.com/itm/364640309348>Otherwise, I like Uni-T.Also, some hacking is possible:
    <https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/a-look-at-the-uni-t-ut210e/>-- Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.comPO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.comBen Lomond CA 95005-0272Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    My BK. Lcr meter came with a lsd 9volt rechargable battery. Like
    the enloop's it should hold a charge for a long time.

    Time will tell if it any better than a nimh standard cell.

    Cheers
    --


    ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to klauskvik@hotmail.com on Thu Oct 17 17:23:46 2024
    On Sun, 6 Oct 2024 01:43:44 +0200, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On 06-10-2024 00:15, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 07:52:25 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine away >>>>> and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    It shuts off in the middle of a measurement, and you have to rotate
    the very klunky range knob all the way back to OFF and then all the
    way back to where it was.

    It's OK for one-time measurements I guess, but terrible for bench
    experiments.

    I agree. That's a serious problem.

    Some of the Extech meters have a way to disable auto power off. It's
    usually disarmed by holding down one of the buttons while turning on
    the meter. I couldn't find anything like that for the EX410A. I'll
    look again when I'm more awake.

    However, my Uni-T UT-210E does have a way to disable auto power off.
    From the user docs at:
    <https://meters.uni-trend.com/download/ut210e-user-manual/?wpdmdl=7228>

    - Automatic power-off: when measuring, if the rotary button has not
    pulled out in 15 minutes, the instrument will automatically power off
    to save energy. In automatic power-off mode, turn rotary button to OFF
    and restart the machine, or click any key to wake the instrument.

    - Turn off automatic power-off function: press and hold SELECT key,
    then power-on start, you will heard 5 buzzing which means automatic
    power-off function is cancelled. Turn off and restart the machine,
    automatic power-off function will be recovered.

    - The buzzer will send out 5 warnings 1 minute before automatic power
    off. A long buzz will be heard before power off When automatic power
    off function is canceled, you will hear 5 continuous warnings in every
    15 minutes.

    I just tested it and found that it works as described. Maybe a meter
    made by Uni-T might be less stupid. The manual doesn't mention that
    every time you turn the meter off, auto power off is re-enabled. You
    need to remember to hold down the SELECT button every time you turn it
    on. For bench use, I don't see this as much of a problem. For my
    use, which involves turning it on/off many times, it's still a
    problem.

    I mentioned that the UT-210E is hackable. See:
    <https://github.com/bdlow/UT210E?tab=readme-ov-file#modify-the-auto-off-and-backlight-times>
    The programming looks easy, but providing the adapter needed to
    program the DM24C02A EEPROM seems rather messy. For an 8 pin SOIC
    package, I would desolder the device and do the editing in an external
    programmer. Whether this is worthy of the time and effort involved is
    your decision.

    Extech was planning to introduce some thermal imagers, so FLIR bought
    them to stop it. That's all FLIR really cares about.

    I didn't know that. FLIR bought Extech in Oct, 2007. After 17 years
    and once FLIR owns the IP (intellectual property), I would have
    expected FLIR to sell off Extech in parts and pieces:
    <https://www.flir.com/about/about-flir/about-extech/>
    "In 2007, Extech was acquired by Teledyne FLIR, a global leader in
    innovative infrared thermal imaging solutions."
    Well maybe. FLIR did sell off Extech Data System, which made portable
    printers in 2009. Looks to me that FLIR had too much cash on hand and
    needed to buy something quickly:
    "FLIR Systems Reports Record Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2007
    Financial Results"
    <https://www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2008/02/07/1049954/0/en/FLIR-Systems-Reports-Record-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-2007-Financial-Results.html>
    "Cash provided by operations during the quarter was a record $55
    million. Cash used during the quarter included $40 million for the
    acquisition of Extech Instruments..."
    $50 million cash for Extech seems to me to have been a bargain
    purchase.

    For IR measurements for handheld, I use Seek Thermal:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GX8XTG5/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

    And for table top:

    https://www.dyt-ir.com/dytspectrumowl-ca-60-rd-grade-thermal-analyzer-with-macro-lens-product/



    What does that cost? I got a similar Flir unit (a freebie!) but it's
    mostly useless. The post on the stand limits how big a board you can
    image, and it doesn't have an adjustable focus.

    The Uni-T 260B handheld thermal imager, with the close-up lens, is
    great.

    I got their 139C dvm too, and it's fine. It reads about 0.2% low. When
    it times out, push some button and it wakes up.

    I blew the current fuse on the Extech, couldn't figure out how to
    replace it, so I threw it away.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Oct 18 17:09:24 2024
    On Thu, 17 Oct 2024 17:23:46 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Sun, 6 Oct 2024 01:43:44 +0200, Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund <klauskvik@hotmail.com> wrote:

    On 06-10-2024 00:15, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
    On Sat, 05 Oct 2024 07:52:25 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 16:07:24 -0700, Jeff Liebermann
    <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 14:46:46 -0700, john larkin
    <jl@glen--canyon.com>
    wrote:

    Extech EX410A DVM Don't Buy

    The auto power off is incredibly stupid. I'm going to throw mine
    away and get something usable.

    What don't you like about the auto power off feature in the EX410A?

    It shuts off in the middle of a measurement, and you have to rotate
    the very klunky range knob all the way back to OFF and then all the
    way back to where it was.

    It's OK for one-time measurements I guess, but terrible for bench
    experiments.

    I agree. That's a serious problem.

    Some of the Extech meters have a way to disable auto power off. It's
    usually disarmed by holding down one of the buttons while turning on
    the meter. I couldn't find anything like that for the EX410A. I'll
    look again when I'm more awake.

    However, my Uni-T UT-210E does have a way to disable auto power off.
    From the user docs at:
    <https://meters.uni-trend.com/download/ut210e-user-manual/?
    wpdmdl=7228>

    - Automatic power-off: when measuring, if the rotary button has not
    pulled out in 15 minutes, the instrument will automatically power off
    to save energy. In automatic power-off mode, turn rotary button to OFF
    and restart the machine, or click any key to wake the instrument.

    - Turn off automatic power-off function: press and hold SELECT key,
    then power-on start, you will heard 5 buzzing which means automatic
    power-off function is cancelled. Turn off and restart the machine,
    automatic power-off function will be recovered.

    - The buzzer will send out 5 warnings 1 minute before automatic power
    off. A long buzz will be heard before power off When automatic power
    off function is canceled, you will hear 5 continuous warnings in every
    15 minutes.

    I just tested it and found that it works as described. Maybe a meter
    made by Uni-T might be less stupid. The manual doesn't mention that
    every time you turn the meter off, auto power off is re-enabled. You
    need to remember to hold down the SELECT button every time you turn it
    on. For bench use, I don't see this as much of a problem. For my
    use, which involves turning it on/off many times, it's still a
    problem.

    I mentioned that the UT-210E is hackable. See:
    <https://github.com/bdlow/UT210E?tab=readme-ov-file#modify-the-auto- off-and-backlight-times>
    The programming looks easy, but providing the adapter needed to
    program the DM24C02A EEPROM seems rather messy. For an 8 pin SOIC
    package, I would desolder the device and do the editing in an external
    programmer. Whether this is worthy of the time and effort involved is
    your decision.

    Extech was planning to introduce some thermal imagers, so FLIR bought
    them to stop it. That's all FLIR really cares about.

    I didn't know that. FLIR bought Extech in Oct, 2007. After 17 years
    and once FLIR owns the IP (intellectual property), I would have
    expected FLIR to sell off Extech in parts and pieces:
    <https://www.flir.com/about/about-flir/about-extech/>
    "In 2007, Extech was acquired by Teledyne FLIR, a global leader in
    innovative infrared thermal imaging solutions."
    Well maybe. FLIR did sell off Extech Data System, which made portable
    printers in 2009. Looks to me that FLIR had too much cash on hand and
    needed to buy something quickly:
    "FLIR Systems Reports Record Fourth Quarter and Full Year 2007
    Financial Results"
    <https://www.globenewswire.com/en/news-release/2008/02/07/1049954/0/ en/FLIR-Systems-Reports-Record-Fourth-Quarter-and-Full-Year-2007- Financial-Results.html>
    "Cash provided by operations during the quarter was a record $55
    million. Cash used during the quarter included $40 million for the
    acquisition of Extech Instruments..."
    $50 million cash for Extech seems to me to have been a bargain
    purchase.

    For IR measurements for handheld, I use Seek Thermal:

    https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07GX8XTG5/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1? smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER&psc=1

    And for table top:

    https://www.dyt-ir.com/dytspectrumowl-ca-60-rd-grade-thermal-analyzer- with-macro-lens-product/



    What does that cost? I got a similar Flir unit (a freebie!) but it's
    mostly useless. The post on the stand limits how big a board you can
    image, and it doesn't have an adjustable focus.

    The Uni-T 260B handheld thermal imager, with the close-up lens, is
    great.

    *Very* useful indeed for troubleshooting boards where something's gone
    short or low-z.

    I got their 139C dvm too, and it's fine. It reads about 0.2% low. When
    it times out, push some button and it wakes up.

    They do make accurate meters. I've had one for about 7 years now and it's
    a main go-to for everything except very high voltages or energy levels.

    I blew the current fuse on the Extech, couldn't figure out how to
    replace it, so I threw it away.

    That was the right thing to do, John.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)