On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with, build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun. >Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
And not everybody is 'made' for electronics...
It is a way of thinking
I was reading this just now:
https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/09/these-3d-printed-pipes-inspired-by-shark-intestines-outperform-tesla-valves/
can you do it in silly-con?
Make a rectifier that way?
;-)
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZXdzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHVrnltb45pObHHLhZrXVxq25z20JeDU8JPg9gvlDBJhjeYEzdUd17bRg5BtdiEWogOTPdntQzANh0QgATtWDZyzRF29N5hQI-fpEzKWDdFKP00ngGxg35yKocz3STPk5gEgFEiIydE2c_w0GQYO362DBWRavsEPamcuQg_4Z-XU
Oh. I just hired one.
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>: >>
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with, build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
On Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>fpEzKWDdFKP00ngGxg35yKocz3STPk5gEgFEiIydE2c_w0GQYO362DBWRavsEPamcuQg_4Z-XU
wrote:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZXdzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHVrnltb45pObHHLhZrXVxq25z20JeDU8JPg9gvlDBJhjeYEzdUd17bRg5BtdiEWogOTPdntQzANh0QgATtWDZyzRF29N5hQI-
Oh. I just hired one.
"For example, Michigan State University is teaching students how to
handle a networking conversation, including how to look for signs that
the other party is starting to get bored and that it’s time to move
on."
Oh yeah, that'll fix everything.
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>: >>
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun. >>Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom ><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>: >>>
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts >then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"
Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts >>then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my
example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are
going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's
grads, it seems. :(
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom ><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>: >>>
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts >then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom ><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are
going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days. >Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969 >now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
that US war mongering war machine has no place in evolution, same for israhell,
Religious brainwashed by theior leaders fanatics everywhere.
Digital dooms day clocks very very precise... atomic
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts >>then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my
example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are
going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's
grads, it seems. :(
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom ><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are
going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days. >Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969 >now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts >>then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with
1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9
volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with
1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9
volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 21:53:30 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with >>>1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
V+=10. Two 10K resistors up and down to set the base voltage. Emitter
1K to ground.
What's the base voltage? Some people have said 0.6, because base
voltages are always 0.6.
What's the emitter voltage? Collector current?
Anything else to say?
Trick question: what's the collector voltage?
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 14:13:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 21:53:30 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with >>>>1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
V+=10. Two 10K resistors up and down to set the base voltage. Emitter
1K to ground.
What's the base voltage? Some people have said 0.6, because base
voltages are always 0.6.
What's the emitter voltage? Collector current?
Anything else to say?
Trick question: what's the collector voltage?
Smart-ass answer: Who knows ... nobody uses vacuum tubes or bipolar >transistors any more.
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 21:53:30 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with >>>1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
V+=10. Two 10K resistors up and down to set the base voltage. Emitter
1K to ground.
What's the base voltage? Some people have said 0.6, because base
voltages are always 0.6.
What's the emitter voltage? Collector current?
Anything else to say?
Trick question: what's the collector voltage?
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 14:13:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 21:53:30 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with >>>>1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
V+=10. Two 10K resistors up and down to set the base voltage. Emitter
1K to ground.
What's the base voltage? Some people have said 0.6, because base
voltages are always 0.6.
What's the emitter voltage? Collector current?
Anything else to say?
Trick question: what's the collector voltage?
Smart-ass answer: Who knows ... nobody uses vacuum tubes or bipolar >transistors any more.
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 14:13:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 21:53:30 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with >>>>1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
V+=10. Two 10K resistors up and down to set the base voltage. Emitter
1K to ground.
What's the base voltage? Some people have said 0.6, because base
voltages are always 0.6.
What's the emitter voltage? Collector current?
Anything else to say?
Trick question: what's the collector voltage?
Smart-ass answer: Who knows ... nobody uses vacuum tubes or bipolar >transistors any more.
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 18:29:42 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 14:13:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 21:53:30 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with >>>>>1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
V+=10. Two 10K resistors up and down to set the base voltage. Emitter
1K to ground.
What's the base voltage? Some people have said 0.6, because base
voltages are always 0.6.
What's the emitter voltage? Collector current?
Anything else to say?
Trick question: what's the collector voltage?
Smart-ass answer: Who knows ... nobody uses vacuum tubes or bipolar >>transistors any more.
Joe Gwinn
I would assume on this group that *everyone* knows.
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>: >>
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>> <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>>
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>> I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>> applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>> 10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>> they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>> not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>> And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>> and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>> Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my
example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are
going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first
approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's
grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days. >> Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
that US war mongering war machine has no place in evolution, same for israhell,
Religious brainwashed by theior leaders fanatics everywhere.
Digital dooms day clocks very very precise... atomic
You and I are old enough to remember back in the past when a situation
such as that in Ukraine/Russia or Israel/Palestine/Lebanon where
all-out war was a distinct likelihood, there would be any number of
peace envoys getting stuck in and trying to defuse the situation
before it escalated. Isn't it curious that we have no such initiatives
going ahead today? I don't believe there's an innocent explanation for
that. These conflicts are 100% engineered by the people Trump refers
to as "The Swamp" and it's becoming ever more obvious that's the case
for even the most obtuse among the bovine, cud-chewing rabble that
form the bulk of the electorate in all democratic nations world-wide.
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>: >>
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>> <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still
think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>> <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff
I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job
applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"
Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my
example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing.
The Chinese are going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's
grads, it seems. :(
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9
volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that >>>anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he >>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are >>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>>grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days. >>Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
that US war mongering war machine has no place in evolution, same for israhell,
Religious brainwashed by theior leaders fanatics everywhere.
Digital dooms day clocks very very precise... atomic
You and I are old enough to remember back in the past when a situation
such as that in Ukraine/Russia or Israel/Palestine/Lebanon where
all-out war was a distinct likelihood, there would be any number of
peace envoys getting stuck in and trying to defuse the situation
before it escalated. Isn't it curious that we have no such initiatives
going ahead today? I don't believe there's an innocent explanation for
that. These conflicts are 100% engineered by the people Trump refers
to as "The Swamp" and it's becoming ever more obvious that's the case
for even the most obtuse among the bovine, cud-chewing rabble that
form the bulk of the electorate in all democratic nations world-wide.
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that >>>anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he >>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are >>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>>grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days. >>Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and
not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society
benefits from having even a few geniuses.
Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still
think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:49:25 -0700) it happened john larkin ><JL@gct.com> wrote in <de4jfjlq704080370lfofh0k0bu3njqn9u@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>: >>>
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>: >>>>>
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>>><jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
Oh. I just hired one.https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html >>>>>>>>
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that >>>>anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he >>>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are >>>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned >>>>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>>>grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days. >>>Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and
not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society >>benefits from having even a few geniuses.
Look at China
Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still >>think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
I observe, like I do when I use a scope to see what is happening in a circuit. >Now is-a-hell hits Jemen.. US weapon factories are having a party,
you pay more taxes..
Bad system.
As your enemies get more powerful and more unite, you are a sitting duck. >Just a big war industry making war to sell at taxpayer's cost
making losses, a deficit the greatest on earth and in history.
Should any sane person ADMIRE that disaster?
Half senile president and an ego tripper criminal as aspiring precedent.
Hide under the table I've heard is the tactics recommended by you leaders.
?
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin ><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9
volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:31:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:49:25 -0700) it happened john larkin >><JL@gct.com> wrote in <de4jfjlq704080370lfofh0k0bu3njqn9u@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>: >>>>
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up
with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue >>>>>>will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>>>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that >>>>>anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately, >>>>>as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he >>>>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are >>>>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned >>>>>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And >>>>>on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>>>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>>>>grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days. >>>>Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and >>>not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society >>>benefits from having even a few geniuses.
Look at China
Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still >>>think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
I observe, like I do when I use a scope to see what is happening in a circuit.
Now is-a-hell hits Jemen.. US weapon factories are having a party,
you pay more taxes..
Bad system.
As your enemies get more powerful and more unite, you are a sitting duck. >>Just a big war industry making war to sell at taxpayer's cost
making losses, a deficit the greatest on earth and in history.
Should any sane person ADMIRE that disaster?
Half senile president and an ego tripper criminal as aspiring precedent.
Hide under the table I've heard is the tactics recommended by you leaders. >>?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9scNl9h4Q
I couldn't find the version with advert at the end "sponsored by Acme >Cigarettes - the mild smoke for kids" :-)
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:05:37 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom ><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2stkfjph6d7s5h50hafmsia5ep7209ds3e@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:31:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:49:25 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <de4jfjlq704080370lfofh0k0bu3njqn9u@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>: >>>>>
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up
with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue >>>>>>>will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>>>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>>>>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that >>>>>>anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately, >>>>>>as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he >>>>>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are >>>>>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned >>>>>>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And >>>>>>on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>>>>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>>>>>grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days. >>>>>Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school >>>>>it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and >>>>not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society >>>>benefits from having even a few geniuses.
Look at China
Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still >>>>think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
I observe, like I do when I use a scope to see what is happening in a circuit.
Now is-a-hell hits Jemen.. US weapon factories are having a party,
you pay more taxes..
Bad system.
As your enemies get more powerful and more unite, you are a sitting duck. >>>Just a big war industry making war to sell at taxpayer's cost
making losses, a deficit the greatest on earth and in history.
Should any sane person ADMIRE that disaster?
Half senile president and an ego tripper criminal as aspiring precedent.
Hide under the table I've heard is the tactics recommended by you leaders. >>>?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9scNl9h4Q
Yep, that is the one :-)
I couldn't find the version with advert at the end "sponsored by Acme >>Cigarettes - the mild smoke for kids" :-)
Oops..
Anyways they are all on Fetanyl or something these days?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:35:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:05:37 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2stkfjph6d7s5h50hafmsia5ep7209ds3e@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:31:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:49:25 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <de4jfjlq704080370lfofh0k0bu3njqn9u@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkinHe doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up
with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort
of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training? >>>>>>>>>
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and
resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See >>>>>>>>Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim, >>>>>>>>The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue >>>>>>>>will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>>>>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>>>>>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that >>>>>>>anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately, >>>>>>>as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he >>>>>>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are >>>>>>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned >>>>>>>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And >>>>>>>on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>>>>>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>>>>>>grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days.
Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school >>>>>>it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and >>>>>not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society >>>>>benefits from having even a few geniuses.
Look at China
Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still >>>>>think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
I observe, like I do when I use a scope to see what is happening in a circuit.
Now is-a-hell hits Jemen.. US weapon factories are having a party,
you pay more taxes..
Bad system.
As your enemies get more powerful and more unite, you are a sitting duck. >>>>Just a big war industry making war to sell at taxpayer's cost
making losses, a deficit the greatest on earth and in history.
Should any sane person ADMIRE that disaster?
Half senile president and an ego tripper criminal as aspiring precedent. >>>>
Hide under the table I've heard is the tactics recommended by you leaders. >>>>?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9scNl9h4Q
Yep, that is the one :-)
Indeed. But for those of us humans without shells, I'm assured hiding
under a school desk is equally effective for any nuclear blasts up to
10 megatons.
I couldn't find the version with advert at the end "sponsored by Acme >>>Cigarettes - the mild smoke for kids" :-)
Oops..
Anyways they are all on Fetanyl or something these days?
Yeah, the under 10s are all on Fentanyl and the teenagers have moved
on to this stuff called 'duster' I gather. I'm told it's 20 times more >addictive than crack cocaine and Wallmart sells it for $2 a can. Kids
these days have it all. When I was young, street drugs didn't even
exist.
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 18:29:42 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 14:13:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 21:53:30 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>>>And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with >>>>>1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
V+=10. Two 10K resistors up and down to set the base voltage. Emitter
1K to ground.
What's the base voltage? Some people have said 0.6, because base
voltages are always 0.6.
What's the emitter voltage? Collector current?
Anything else to say?
Trick question: what's the collector voltage?
Smart-ass answer: Who knows ... nobody uses vacuum tubes or bipolar >>transistors any more.
Joe Gwinn
So assume a common n-channel mosfet, like a 2N7000. What are the
answers?
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin ><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question intoThe problem there is 'draw', no reality.
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K. >>
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get
that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 18:02:38 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 18:29:42 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 14:13:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 21:53:30 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with >>>>>>1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>>electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
V+=10. Two 10K resistors up and down to set the base voltage. Emitter >>>>1K to ground.
What's the base voltage? Some people have said 0.6, because base >>>>voltages are always 0.6.
What's the emitter voltage? Collector current?
Anything else to say?
Trick question: what's the collector voltage?
Smart-ass answer: Who knows ... nobody uses vacuum tubes or bipolar >>>transistors any more.
Joe Gwinn
So assume a common n-channel mosfet, like a 2N7000. What are the
answers?
Where's the Microcontroller Programmers Guide?
Joe Gwinn
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 14:30:48 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom ><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <3i9lfj57mhfe657c5mcbd3mmap61q4m1ik@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:35:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:05:37 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2stkfjph6d7s5h50hafmsia5ep7209ds3e@4ax.com>: >>>
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:31:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:49:25 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <de4jfjlq704080370lfofh0k0bu3njqn9u@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkinHe doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up
with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort
of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards .. >>>>>>>>>>>Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training? >>>>>>>>>>
10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and
resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See >>>>>>>>>Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim, >>>>>>>>>The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue >>>>>>>>>will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>>>>>>>Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>>>>>>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that >>>>>>>>anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately, >>>>>>>>as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he >>>>>>>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are >>>>>>>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned >>>>>>>>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And >>>>>>>>on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>>>>>>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>>>>>>>grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days.
Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school >>>>>>>it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and >>>>>>not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society >>>>>>benefits from having even a few geniuses.
Look at China
Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still >>>>>>think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
I observe, like I do when I use a scope to see what is happening in a circuit.
Now is-a-hell hits Jemen.. US weapon factories are having a party, >>>>>you pay more taxes..
Bad system.
As your enemies get more powerful and more unite, you are a sitting duck. >>>>>Just a big war industry making war to sell at taxpayer's cost
making losses, a deficit the greatest on earth and in history.
Should any sane person ADMIRE that disaster?
Half senile president and an ego tripper criminal as aspiring precedent. >>>>>
Hide under the table I've heard is the tactics recommended by you leaders. >>>>>?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9scNl9h4Q
Yep, that is the one :-)
Indeed. But for those of us humans without shells, I'm assured hiding
under a school desk is equally effective for any nuclear blasts up to
10 megatons.
I couldn't find the version with advert at the end "sponsored by Acme >>>>Cigarettes - the mild smoke for kids" :-)
Oops..
Anyways they are all on Fetanyl or something these days?
Yeah, the under 10s are all on Fentanyl and the teenagers have moved
on to this stuff called 'duster' I gather. I'm told it's 20 times more >>addictive than crack cocaine and Wallmart sells it for $2 a can. Kids
these days have it all. When I was young, street drugs didn't even
exist.
Had to look up 'duster'
https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/air-duster-abuse/air-duster-high/
When I was young, say in the fifties, no drugs here either, was living in Amsterdam back then.
In the seventies drugs were everywhere here, smoking with friends at night in my room playing records..,
the smell got much in my clothes, so you got funny looks at work,
One day I just quit drugs.
There also was LSD and what not.
Some people I knew ended in the hospital with overdoses..
Some kicked off...
Somehow drugs never got hold on me, always could rationalize what I experienced,
was studying psychology books, designing stuff, work...
then after the mid seventies travelled the world.... looking for 'truth', travelled all over the US too.
Lived in a community for a while... lived in the wild... had my own company, worked
in many different fields that used electronics... in a hospital too.
Drugs are in a way an escape from your reality,, OTOH I have had cool experiences.
Here, few month ago, waiting at the bus stop, kids smoking there, maybe 10 or 12 years old?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>paralysis.The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K. >>>
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get
that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Extra credit: anything else to say?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question intoThe problem there is 'draw', no reality.
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K. >>>
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9
volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>> electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's
silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get
that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Extra credit: anything else to say?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>paralysis.The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K. >>>>
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Extra credit: anything else to say?
Seriously? Vb is 5V. Vbe is 0.6V so Ve is 4.4V which gives us an Ie of >4.4/1000 = 4.4mA. Ic will be slightly less obviously but to a first >approximation we usually take them to be the same. Vc = 10V.
I don't see how anyone can get tripped up by this.
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>Standard ROT circuit from technician school BITD.
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9
volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>> electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's
silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get
that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Extra credit: anything else to say?
Beta of 200ish, roughly 4 mA I_C, so the base pulls 20 uA. With a 5k
source, itll sag 100 mV, not much.
So V_E will be near 4.3 V, unless it oscillates, which it probably wont >unless its built on one of those nasty white nylon slab things.
(Technician school is particularly insistent on the distinction between
beta and beta+1 in circuits, even though datasheet limits easily exceed
2:1.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
(whos never taken a circuits course other than RLCs for physicists)
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>paralysis.The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K. >>>
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get
that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Extra credit: anything else to say?
"john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>paralysis.The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K. >>>>
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Extra credit: anything else to say?
Why not ask about the essential features of the circuit below.
Extra credit: What's it for?
Knowledge of things which were useful decades ago may not be so useful now.
How many students think that knowing how to design circuits like the one below will help them make money?
Version 4
SHEET 1 960 1280
WIRE -272 -144 -400 -144
WIRE 112 -144 -272 -144
WIRE 352 -144 112 -144
WIRE 544 -144 352 -144
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WIRE 112 688 -16 688
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WIRE 832 832 832 688
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WIRE -576 880 -576 832
WIRE 224 896 224 512
WIRE 256 896 224 896
WIRE 496 896 336 896
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WIRE 688 896 688 784
WIRE 688 896 624 896
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WIRE 496 1024 464 1024
WIRE 224 1136 224 1024
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SYMATTR InstName V2
TEXT -864 808 Left 2 ;.ac oct 20 5 3000000
TEXT -416 1264 Left 2 !.MODEL 2N4302 njf VTO=-1.17 BETA=519u LAMBDA=7.72m CGD=2.30p CGS=2.30p PB=12.5 IS=14.9f MFG=InterFET
TEXT -864 880 Left 2 !.tran 100m
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question intoThe problem there is 'draw', no reality.
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K. >>>
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9
volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>> electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's
silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get
that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Extra credit: anything else to say?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:12:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 18:02:38 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 18:29:42 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 14:13:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 21:53:30 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkinHe doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>>>>applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>>>>>10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>>>>they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>>>>not to hire them. :-)
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training? >>>>>>>>>
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>>>>>and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with >>>>>>>1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>>>electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
V+=10. Two 10K resistors up and down to set the base voltage. Emitter >>>>>1K to ground.
What's the base voltage? Some people have said 0.6, because base >>>>>voltages are always 0.6.
What's the emitter voltage? Collector current?
Anything else to say?
Trick question: what's the collector voltage?
Smart-ass answer: Who knows ... nobody uses vacuum tubes or bipolar >>>>transistors any more.
Joe Gwinn
So assume a common n-channel mosfet, like a 2N7000. What are the
answers?
Where's the Microcontroller Programmers Guide?
Joe Gwinn
So many people here prefer snarks to parts.
Probably few actually understand simple circuits.
"john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9
volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>> electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's
silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get
that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Extra credit: anything else to say?
Why not ask about the essential features of the circuit below.
Extra credit: What's it for?
Knowledge of things which were useful decades ago may not be so useful now.
How many students think that knowing how to design circuits like the one below will help them make money?
Version 4
SHEET 1 960 1280
WIRE -272 -144 -400 -144
WIRE 112 -144 -272 -144
WIRE 352 -144 112 -144
WIRE 544 -144 352 -144
WIRE -272 -96 -272 -144
WIRE 112 -96 112 -144
WIRE 352 -96 352 -144
WIRE 544 -16 544 -144
WIRE -272 16 -272 -32
WIRE 112 16 112 -16
WIRE 192 16 112 16
WIRE 352 32 352 -16
WIRE 480 32 352 32
WIRE 112 64 112 16
WIRE 192 112 192 80
WIRE 64 128 16 128
WIRE 112 192 112 160
WIRE 240 208 208 208
WIRE 544 208 544 80
WIRE 544 208 304 208
WIRE -400 256 -400 -144
WIRE 352 272 352 32
WIRE 16 304 16 128
WIRE 112 304 112 272
WIRE 112 304 16 304
WIRE 112 320 112 304
WIRE 208 320 208 208
WIRE 208 320 112 320
WIRE 288 320 208 320
WIRE 112 352 112 320
WIRE -288 400 -576 400
WIRE -240 400 -288 400
WIRE -224 400 -240 400
WIRE -128 400 -160 400
WIRE -16 400 -48 400
WIRE 48 400 -16 400
WIRE 352 400 352 368
WIRE 544 480 544 208
WIRE 592 480 544 480
WIRE 688 480 656 480
WIRE 832 480 768 480
WIRE 880 480 832 480
WIRE -16 496 -16 400
WIRE 16 496 -16 496
WIRE 112 496 112 448
WIRE 112 496 80 496
WIRE 112 512 112 496
WIRE 224 512 112 512
WIRE 352 512 352 480
WIRE 432 512 352 512
WIRE -240 528 -240 400
WIRE -16 528 -16 496
WIRE 112 528 112 512
WIRE 352 528 352 512
WIRE -576 608 -576 400
WIRE 832 608 832 480
WIRE -16 656 -16 608
WIRE 352 656 352 608
WIRE 352 656 -16 656
WIRE 544 672 544 480
WIRE 688 672 544 672
WIRE 112 688 112 608
WIRE 112 688 -16 688
WIRE 112 704 112 688
WIRE 352 704 352 656
WIRE 544 704 544 672
WIRE -16 720 -16 688
WIRE 432 720 432 512
WIRE 688 720 688 672
WIRE -576 832 -576 688
WIRE -400 832 -400 336
WIRE -400 832 -576 832
WIRE -240 832 -240 608
WIRE -240 832 -400 832
WIRE -16 832 -16 784
WIRE -16 832 -240 832
WIRE 112 832 112 784
WIRE 112 832 -16 832
WIRE 352 832 352 784
WIRE 352 832 112 832
WIRE 432 832 432 784
WIRE 432 832 352 832
WIRE 544 832 544 784
WIRE 544 832 432 832
WIRE 832 832 832 688
WIRE 832 832 544 832
WIRE -576 880 -576 832
WIRE 224 896 224 512
WIRE 256 896 224 896
WIRE 496 896 336 896
WIRE 544 896 496 896
WIRE 688 896 688 784
WIRE 688 896 624 896
WIRE 224 1024 224 896
WIRE 256 1024 224 1024
WIRE 368 1024 336 1024
WIRE 400 1024 368 1024
WIRE 496 1024 496 896
WIRE 496 1024 464 1024
WIRE 224 1136 224 1024
WIRE 256 1136 224 1136
WIRE 368 1136 368 1024
WIRE 368 1136 320 1136
FLAG -576 880 0
FLAG 192 112 0
FLAG -288 400 input
FLAG -272 16 0
FLAG 832 480 output
SYMBOL pjf 64 64 R0
WINDOW 0 -32 -1 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -87 35 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName J1
SYMATTR Value 2N4302
SYMBOL res 96 -112 R0
SYMATTR InstName R1
SYMATTR Value 150k
SYMBOL voltage -400 240 R0
WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
WINDOW 39 -151 71 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -79 36 Left 2
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=0.1
SYMATTR Value 24
SYMATTR InstName V1
SYMBOL npn 48 352 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q1
SYMATTR Value 2N3904
SYMBOL res 96 176 R0
SYMATTR InstName R2
SYMATTR Value 27k
SYMBOL npn 480 -16 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q2
SYMATTR Value 2N3904
SYMBOL res 336 -112 R0
SYMATTR InstName R3
SYMATTR Value 22k
SYMBOL npn 288 272 R0
SYMATTR InstName Q3
SYMATTR Value 2N3904
SYMBOL polcap 176 16 R0
SYMATTR InstName C2
SYMATTR Value 47ľ
SYMBOL res 96 512 R0
SYMATTR InstName R4
SYMATTR Value 470
SYMBOL res 96 688 R0
SYMATTR InstName R5
SYMATTR Value 39k
SYMBOL res -32 512 R0
WINDOW 0 -41 40 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -63 76 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R6
SYMATTR Value 270k
SYMBOL cap 80 480 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C1
SYMATTR Value 470p
SYMBOL polcap -32 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName C3
SYMATTR Value 47ľ
SYMBOL res -32 384 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R7
SYMATTR Value 1k
SYMBOL polcap -160 384 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C4
SYMATTR Value 1ľ
SYMBOL res -256 512 R0
WINDOW 0 40 38 Left 2
WINDOW 3 36 74 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R8
SYMATTR Value 68k
SYMBOL res 528 688 R0
SYMATTR InstName R9
SYMATTR Value 3k3
SYMBOL cap 304 192 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C5
SYMATTR Value 10p
SYMBOL res 336 512 R0
WINDOW 0 -52 35 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -58 72 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R10
SYMATTR Value 5.6k
SYMBOL res 336 688 R0
WINDOW 0 -53 28 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -47 61 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R11
SYMATTR Value 10k
SYMBOL res 336 384 R0
WINDOW 0 -59 36 Left 2
WINDOW 3 -61 76 Left 2
SYMATTR InstName R12
SYMATTR Value 2.2k
SYMBOL res 352 880 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R13
SYMATTR Value 680k
SYMBOL res 640 880 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R14
SYMATTR Value 1.5k
SYMBOL res 352 1008 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R15
SYMATTR Value 24k
SYMBOL cap 320 1120 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C6
SYMATTR Value 3.3n
SYMBOL cap 464 1008 R90
WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName C7
SYMATTR Value 10n
SYMBOL polcap 672 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName C8
SYMATTR Value 1ľ
SYMBOL polcap 416 720 R0
SYMATTR InstName C9
SYMATTR Value 100ľ
SYMBOL polcap -288 -96 R0
SYMATTR InstName C10
SYMATTR Value 220ľ
SYMBOL polcap 592 496 R270
WINDOW 0 32 32 VTop 2
WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
SYMATTR InstName C11
SYMATTR Value 1ľ
SYMBOL res 784 464 R90
WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
SYMATTR InstName R16
SYMATTR Value 100
SYMBOL res 816 592 R0
SYMATTR InstName R17
SYMATTR Value 1000k
SYMBOL voltage -576 592 R0
WINDOW 3 -283 51 Left 2
WINDOW 123 -283 79 Left 2
WINDOW 39 -283 107 Left 2
SYMATTR Value SINE(0 0.1 1000)
SYMATTR Value2 AC 0.1 0
SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=0
SYMATTR InstName V2
TEXT -864 808 Left 2 ;.ac oct 20 5 3000000
TEXT -416 1264 Left 2 !.MODEL 2N4302 njf VTO=-1.17 BETA=519u LAMBDA=7.72m CGD=2.30p CGS=2.30p PB=12.5 IS=14.9f MFG=InterFET
TEXT -864 880 Left 2 !.tran 100m
john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>Standard ROT circuit from technician school BITD.
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9
volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>> electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN
emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's
silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get
that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Extra credit: anything else to say?
Beta of 200ish, roughly 4 mA I_C, so the base pulls 20 uA. With a 5k
source, itll sag 100 mV, not much.
So V_E will be near 4.3 V, unless it oscillates, which it probably wont >unless its built on one of those nasty white nylon slab things.
(Technician school is particularly insistent on the distinction between
beta and beta+1 in circuits, even though datasheet limits easily exceed
2:1.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
On 9/30/24 10:21 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:...
"john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
Looks like an audio pre-amp with RIAA equalization for a moving coil pickup.
"KevinJ93" <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> wrote in message news:vdev5a$2c45n$1@dont-email.me...
On 9/30/24 10:21 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:...
"john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
Looks like an audio pre-amp with RIAA equalization for a moving coil pickup. >>
https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Wireless-World/70s/Wireless-World-1974-12-S-OCR.pdf
Page 503 (pdf page 37)
One thing I just noticed is that 2N4302 is n channel but shown as p channel.
Anyone know of a part I can still buy which is sufficiently equivalent?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 18:29:31 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"KevinJ93" <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> wrote in message news:vdev5a$2c45n$1@dont-email.me...
On 9/30/24 10:21 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:...
"john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
Page 503 (pdf page 37)
Looks like an audio pre-amp with RIAA equalization for a moving coil pickup.
https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Wireless-World/70s/Wireless-World-1974-12-S-OCR.pdf
One thing I just noticed is that 2N4302 is n channel but shown as p channel. >>
Anyone know of a part I can still buy which is sufficiently equivalent?
You could bootstrap a collector resistor and get about the same
effect.
The Supertex depletion fets make nice constant-current loads too. They
are very repeatible, unlike jfets.
What's the expected current in the jfet?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 18:29:31 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"KevinJ93" <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> wrote in message news:vdev5a$2c45n$1@dont-email.me...
On 9/30/24 10:21 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:...
"john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
Page 503 (pdf page 37)
Looks like an audio pre-amp with RIAA equalization for a moving coil pickup.
https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Wireless-World/70s/Wireless-World-1974-12-S-OCR.pdf
One thing I just noticed is that 2N4302 is n channel but shown as p channel. >>
Anyone know of a part I can still buy which is sufficiently equivalent?
You could bootstrap a collector resistor and get about the same
effect.
The Supertex depletion fets make nice constant-current loads too. They
are very repeatible, unlike jfets.
What's the expected current in the jfet?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:12:25 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 18:02:38 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 18:29:42 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 14:13:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 21:53:30 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>> wrote:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkinHe doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>>>>> applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>>> I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training? >>>>>>>>>
10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>>>>> they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>>>>> not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>>> Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>>> And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>>> and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with >>>>>>> 1K.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>> volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>>> electronics now.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>> emitter follower.
What do you ask them about that?
V+=10. Two 10K resistors up and down to set the base voltage. Emitter >>>>> 1K to ground.
What's the base voltage? Some people have said 0.6, because base
voltages are always 0.6.
What's the emitter voltage? Collector current?
Anything else to say?
Trick question: what's the collector voltage?
Smart-ass answer: Who knows ... nobody uses vacuum tubes or bipolar
transistors any more.
Joe Gwinn
So assume a common n-channel mosfet, like a 2N7000. What are the
answers?
Where's the Microcontroller Programmers Guide?
Joe Gwinn
So many people here prefer snarks to parts.
Probably few actually understand simple circuits.
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>paralysis.The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K. >>>
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get
that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Extra credit: anything else to say?
"KevinJ93" <kevin_es@whitedigs.com> wrote in message news:vdev5a$2c45n$1@dont-email.me...
On 9/30/24 10:21 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:...
"john larkin" <JL@gct.com> wrote in message news:7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com...
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into
paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
Looks like an audio pre-amp with RIAA equalization for a moving coil pickup. >>
https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Wireless-World/70s/Wireless-World-1974-12-S-OCR.pdf
Page 503 (pdf page 37)
One thing I just noticed is that 2N4302 is n channel but shown as p channel.
Anyone know of a part I can still buy which is sufficiently equivalent?
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 14:35:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 14:30:48 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <3i9lfj57mhfe657c5mcbd3mmap61q4m1ik@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:35:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:05:37 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>>><cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2stkfjph6d7s5h50hafmsia5ep7209ds3e@4ax.com>: >>>>
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:31:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:49:25 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <de4jfjlq704080370lfofh0k0bu3njqn9u@4ax.com>: >>>>>>
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkinHe doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing >>>>>>>>>>>>But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>>>>>>>I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up
with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones
sort
of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards .. >>>>>>>>>>>>Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training? >>>>>>>>>>>
applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it >>>>>>>>>>Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed... >>>>>>>>>>And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example.
And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that >>>>>>>>>>and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and
resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value.
and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See >>>>>>>>>>Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim, >>>>>>>>>>The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue >>>>>>>>>>will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated"
Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my >>>>>>>>>example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that >>>>>>>>>anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately, >>>>>>>>>as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he >>>>>>>>>interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are >>>>>>>>>going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned >>>>>>>>>the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And >>>>>>>>>on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first >>>>>>>>>approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's >>>>>>>>>grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days.
Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school >>>>>>>>it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
What's happening is that the normal distribution is getting wider, and >>>>>>>not just in the USA. Some of the fringes are geniuses, and a society >>>>>>>benefits from having even a few geniuses.
Look at China
Being reflexively anti-American is no substitute for thinking. I still >>>>>>>think that the USA is the best place to design electronics.
I observe, like I do when I use a scope to see what is happening in a circuit.
Now is-a-hell hits Jemen.. US weapon factories are having a party, >>>>>>you pay more taxes..
Bad system.
As your enemies get more powerful and more unite, you are a sitting duck. >>>>>>Just a big war industry making war to sell at taxpayer's cost >>>>>>making losses, a deficit the greatest on earth and in history.
Should any sane person ADMIRE that disaster?
Half senile president and an ego tripper criminal as aspiring precedent. >>>>>>
Hide under the table I've heard is the tactics recommended by you leaders.
?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lg9scNl9h4Q
Yep, that is the one :-)
Indeed. But for those of us humans without shells, I'm assured hiding >>>under a school desk is equally effective for any nuclear blasts up to
10 megatons.
I couldn't find the version with advert at the end "sponsored by Acme >>>>>Cigarettes - the mild smoke for kids" :-)
Oops..
Anyways they are all on Fetanyl or something these days?
Yeah, the under 10s are all on Fentanyl and the teenagers have moved
on to this stuff called 'duster' I gather. I'm told it's 20 times more >>>addictive than crack cocaine and Wallmart sells it for $2 a can. Kids >>>these days have it all. When I was young, street drugs didn't even
exist.
Had to look up 'duster'
https://www.therecoveryvillage.com/air-duster-abuse/air-duster-high/
When I was young, say in the fifties, no drugs here either, was living in Amsterdam back then.
In the seventies drugs were everywhere here, smoking with friends at night in my room playing records..,
the smell got much in my clothes, so you got funny looks at work,
One day I just quit drugs.
There also was LSD and what not.
Some people I knew ended in the hospital with overdoses..
Some kicked off...
Somehow drugs never got hold on me, always could rationalize what I experienced,
was studying psychology books, designing stuff, work...
then after the mid seventies travelled the world.... looking for 'truth', travelled all over the US too.
Lived in a community for a while... lived in the wild... had my own company, worked
in many different fields that used electronics... in a hospital too.
Drugs are in a way an escape from your reality,, OTOH I have had cool experiences.
Here, few month ago, waiting at the bus stop, kids smoking there, maybe 10 or 12 years old?
We tend to see this as a recent phenomenon, but it really isn't. Go
back to Ireland a hundred years ago and you'd see 7 year-old boys
running around smoking tobacco in clay pipes and it was not regarded
as the least bit unsual!
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin ><JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>paralysis.The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K. >>>>
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should
take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually
are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN)
you need to take into account the base current that will among other things >decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
On 29/09/2024 10:10, Cursitor Doom wrote:
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job
applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with
10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If
they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows
not to hire them. :-)
Doesn't mean much as specified. Voltage with respect to what?
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin >><JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too.
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>>electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>>silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems >>>>to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>>that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to >>>ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN)
you need to take into account the base current that will among other things >>decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or
noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a
miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or
noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's
job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter
single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned
out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job
as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his
new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company
was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing >treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
[Among the other questions were to make an Xor using two-input Nands,
show a methodology for calculating a square root where that function
isn't available, and tell us at what temperature solder melts.]
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin ><JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>><JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>>volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>>full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>>>electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware. >>>>>>Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>>and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>>>silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems >>>>>to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>>>that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>>take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6 >>>>volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>>are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to >>>>ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN)
you need to take into account the base current that will among other things >>>decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
Amazing, I ordered some of these 2 weeks ago,
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/verkade-puur-intens-12x-111-gram/9300000158912440
all gone now :-)
So yesterday I went shopping, got new ones...
When winter comes a hot chocolate drink is good too, add some sugar:
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi127402/blooker-cacaopoeder
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 06:02:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>>> volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic >>>>>>>> electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware.
Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination...
It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>> emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>>>> silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems >>>>>> to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>>>> that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>>> take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6
volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>>> are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to
ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN)
you need to take into account the base current that will among other things
decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
Amazing, I ordered some of these 2 weeks ago,
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/verkade-puur-intens-12x-111-gram/9300000158912440
all gone now :-)
So yesterday I went shopping, got new ones...
When winter comes a hot chocolate drink is good too, add some sugar:
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi127402/blooker-cacaopoeder
It makes no sense that europeans are a zillion miles from the places
that grow chocolate, but make such good stuff. The Ritter Sport dark
stuff is great.
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 06:02:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin >>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>>>> volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic
electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware. >>>>>>>> Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination... >>>>>>>> It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>>> emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>>>>> silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems >>>>>>> to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>>>>> that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>>>> take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6 >>>>>> volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>>>> are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to >>>>>> ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN)
you need to take into account the base current that will among other things
decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
Amazing, I ordered some of these 2 weeks ago,
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/verkade-puur-intens-12x-111-gram/9300000158912440
all gone now :-)
So yesterday I went shopping, got new ones...
When winter comes a hot chocolate drink is good too, add some sugar:
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi127402/blooker-cacaopoeder
It makes no sense that europeans are a zillion miles from the places
that grow chocolate, but make such good stuff. The Ritter Sport dark
stuff is great.
Nah, it’s all from the sun-drenched tropical mountains of Holland.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 06:02:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin >>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>>>> volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic
electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware. >>>>>>>> Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination... >>>>>>>> It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>>> emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>>>>> silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems >>>>>>> to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>>>>> that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>>>> take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6 >>>>>> volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>>>> are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to >>>>>> ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN)
you need to take into account the base current that will among other things
decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
Amazing, I ordered some of these 2 weeks ago,
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/verkade-puur-intens-12x-111-gram/9300000158912440
all gone now :-)
So yesterday I went shopping, got new ones...
When winter comes a hot chocolate drink is good too, add some sugar:
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi127402/blooker-cacaopoeder
It makes no sense that europeans are a zillion miles from the places
that grow chocolate, but make such good stuff. The Ritter Sport dark
stuff is great.
Nah, its all from the sun-drenched tropical mountains of Holland.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 06:02:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin >>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>>>> volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic
electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware. >>>>>>>> Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination... >>>>>>>> It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>>> emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>>>>> silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems >>>>>>> to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>>>>> that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>>>> take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6 >>>>>> volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>>>> are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to >>>>>> ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN)
you need to take into account the base current that will among other things
decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
Amazing, I ordered some of these 2 weeks ago,
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/verkade-puur-intens-12x-111-gram/9300000158912440
all gone now :-)
So yesterday I went shopping, got new ones...
When winter comes a hot chocolate drink is good too, add some sugar:
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi127402/blooker-cacaopoeder
It makes no sense that europeans are a zillion miles from the places
that grow chocolate, but make such good stuff. The Ritter Sport dark
stuff is great.
Nah, it’s all from the sun-drenched tropical mountains of Holland.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
On 10/2/24 22:29, Phil Hobbs wrote:
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 06:02:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>: >>>>>>
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>>>>> volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic
electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware. >>>>>>>>> Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination... >>>>>>>>> It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>>>> emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>>>>>> silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems >>>>>>>> to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>>>>>> that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>>>>> take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6 >>>>>>> volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>>>>> are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to >>>>>>> ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN) >>>>>> you need to take into account the base current that will among other things
decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
Amazing, I ordered some of these 2 weeks ago,
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/verkade-puur-intens-12x-111-gram/9300000158912440
all gone now :-)
So yesterday I went shopping, got new ones...
When winter comes a hot chocolate drink is good too, add some sugar:
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi127402/blooker-cacaopoeder
It makes no sense that europeans are a zillion miles from the places
that grow chocolate, but make such good stuff. The Ritter Sport dark
stuff is great.
Nah, it’s all from the sun-drenched tropical mountains of Holland.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Yep, with mountain summits culminating at 40 cm above the local
water level. The smell of cocoa permeates the whole area. I had
an uncle working at Verkade.
Jeroen Belleman
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a
miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or
noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's
job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter
single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned
out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job
as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his
new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company
was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing >treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 10/2/24 22:29, Phil Hobbs wrote:
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 06:02:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>>>>>> volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic
electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware. >>>>>>>>>> Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination... >>>>>>>>>> It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>>>>> emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>>>>>>> silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems >>>>>>>>> to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>>>>>>> that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>>>>>> take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6 >>>>>>>> volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>>>>>> are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to >>>>>>>> ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN) >>>>>>> you need to take into account the base current that will among other things
decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
Amazing, I ordered some of these 2 weeks ago,
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/verkade-puur-intens-12x-111-gram/9300000158912440
all gone now :-)
So yesterday I went shopping, got new ones...
When winter comes a hot chocolate drink is good too, add some sugar: >>>>> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi127402/blooker-cacaopoeder
It makes no sense that europeans are a zillion miles from the places
that grow chocolate, but make such good stuff. The Ritter Sport dark
stuff is great.
Nah, its all from the sun-drenched tropical mountains of Holland.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Yep, with mountain summits culminating at 40 cm above the local
water level. The smell of cocoa permeates the whole area. I had
an uncle working at Verkade.
Jeroen Belleman
My grandfather spent a few years being closely concerned with small >differences of elevation in Flanders.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 20:29:23 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 06:02:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>: >>>>>>
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>>>>> volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic
electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware. >>>>>>>>> Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination... >>>>>>>>> It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>>>> emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>>>>>> silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems >>>>>>>> to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>>>>>> that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>>>>> take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6 >>>>>>> volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>>>>> are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to >>>>>>> ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN) >>>>>> you need to take into account the base current that will among other things
decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
Amazing, I ordered some of these 2 weeks ago,
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/verkade-puur-intens-12x-111-gram/9300000158912440
all gone now :-)
So yesterday I went shopping, got new ones...
When winter comes a hot chocolate drink is good too, add some sugar:
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi127402/blooker-cacaopoeder
It makes no sense that europeans are a zillion miles from the places
that grow chocolate, but make such good stuff. The Ritter Sport dark
stuff is great.
Nah, its all from the sun-drenched tropical mountains of Holland.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
There's actually a ski resort in the Netherlands.
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a
miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or
noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's
job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter
single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned
out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job
as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his
new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company
was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing
treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
I see the trend, good circuit designers retiring and not being
replaced.
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a
miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or
noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's
job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter
single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned
out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job
as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his
new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company
was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing
treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
[Among the other questions were to make an Xor using two-input Nands,
show a methodology for calculating a square root where that function
isn't available, and tell us at what temperature solder melts.]
You were lucky, then. Designers typically don't make good repair
technicians and vice-versa. The two types think in fundamentally
different ways.
On 3/10/2024 3:06 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a >>>> miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or
noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's
job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter
single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned
out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job
as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his
new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company >>> was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing
treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
[Among the other questions were to make an Xor using two-input Nands,
show a methodology for calculating a square root where that function
isn't available, and tell us at what temperature solder melts.]
You were lucky, then. Designers typically don't make good repair
technicians and vice-versa. The two types think in fundamentally
different ways.
One has to wonder why Cursitor Doom thinks that he knows. He isn't
either. Repair technicians typically have to work out why a device isn't working, which is a process of forming hypotheses and testing them.
Designers tend to come up with hypotheses faster than repair
technicians, so they don't test them as thoroughly, but they do tend to
fix things faster.
At Cambridge Instruments the design engineers frequently got called in
when some expensive production machine wasn't meeting its performance
tests, and we frequently did well. We cost twice as much per hour as the technicians, but a million dollar machine sitting on the production line didn't make any money at all until we could ship it out.
Our chief engineer got shipped to America once to a machine that wasn't passing it's acceptance tests, and solve the problem instantly by
recognising the ancient hydraulic lift that took him up to machine under test.
It had an associated magnetic field due to the big lump of iron involved
and our machine was sensitive enough to the local magnetic field that
the lift going up and down messed it up.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html?guccounter=1&guce_referrer=aHR0cHM6Ly9uZXdzLmdvb2dsZS5jb20v&guce_referrer_sig=AQAAAHVrnltb45pObHHLhZrXVxq25z20JeDU8JPg9gvlDBJhjeYEzdUd17bRg5BtdiEWogOTPdntQzANh0QgATtWDZyzRF29N5hQI-fpEzKWDdFKP00ngGxg35yKocz3STPk5gEgFEiIydE2c_w0GQYO362DBWRavsEPamcuQg_4Z-XU
Oh. I just hired one.
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
Just FYI -- everything after the ...818.html, starting with the question >mark, is the tracking information that is not needed of useful. The URL is:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
and it fits in one line.
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 00:08:10 -0000 (UTC), Sergey Kubushyn
<ksi@koi8.net> wrote:
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
Just FYI -- everything after the ...818.html, starting with the question >>mark, is the tracking information that is not needed of useful. The URL is: >>
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
and it fits in one line.
OK. Amazon links are like that... you can chop them off short.
And Google is evil.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 18:41:27 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <714jfj57e91sfrgeruv4prsqmujf3m04hs@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:04:57 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 17:41:36 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom >>> <cd@notformail.com> wrote in <2h0jfjhlq7ic02h5f72a3ibsksv5mkg6aj@4ax.com>: >>>
On Sun, 29 Sep 2024 13:22:31 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:10:33 +0100) it happened Cursitor Doom
<cd@notformail.com> wrote in <d56ifj1angpnq16qhhb0vplmlr3tt7opnf@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 27 Sep 2024 08:42:27 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 26 Sep 2024 16:21:31 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in <v1rbfj18eqbgr1t9bfvdfqqmn1q91gcfof@4ax.com>:
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/bosses-firing-gen-z-grads-111719818.html
Oh. I just hired one.
There is a lot of truth in that article.
I have had to work with newcomers, some knew nothing
But then when I started... in my first job designing a.o. mil stuff >>>>>>> I had to figure it all out for myself the same day the requests got on the table.
One old guy, who had some experience with electronics but had a lot with high power stuff..
and a manager to rule us, was the environment, and a big factory floor building the things we came up with, and
a test room (HV stuff 100 kV etc megawatt stuff.. and a little corner and oscilloscope for me to test what I came up with,
build proto circuits.
Later when starting in broadcasting we got 6 month in the school benches in their own studio, while getting payed,
and exams after that, everything from audio, video, satellite, management, politics (who can do what, red phones sort of
thing), the works.
As that (video, audio etc) was my real interest, I found it relaxing and fun.
Then when you are put in charge of a real event, I remember the first day I ran alone in a head control room
I had to call my boss back from his dinner in some restaurant.. could not find the cables we had to swap
to sync some remote location,
turned out those were hidden under the floor boards ..
Did not they tell you that?
(Must have missed that :-) ).
It all depends,.
Do you give the poor new guy training? ANY kind of training?
He doesn't have to. John has this screening technique he uses for job >>>>>> applicants. He shows them a diagram of two 1k resistors in series with >>>>>> 10V across them and asks them what the voltage where they join is. If >>>>>> they freak out, burst into tears or defenestrate themselves, he knows >>>>>> not to hire them. :-)
Yes I did read that posting
Its hard, lemme see, e=m.c^12 likely does not help.
to make it easier for me I use volts, so if 3k3 + 4k7 in series gives 8 volts
then we know 3k3 gives 3.3 V across it and 4k7 4.7 volts across it
Best is to use trimpots to get the right value, no math needed...
And of course you need to bring the (multi?)meter impedance into play, especially for high
value resistors and moving coil meters from old boat anchors for example. >>>>> And there are LDRs and NTCs and PTCs, so we need to know all that
and the temperature and light intensity...
for the NTCs and PTCs we also need to know the current and time since switch on...
So no wonder if they defenestrate themselves.
An other issue maybe length contraction due to near light speed that may affect both measurement equipment and resistors.
And reading those colored bands around some resistors to get the value. >>>>> and wirewound, carbon composite, metal,
And then J.L. did not specify if it was DeeSee or AH!See
Imagine 2 1k resistors, one wire-wound, the other metal flim,
The wire-wound would work as inductor for RF, so would some small metal ones with some turns on it..
And then there are tolerances, simple maybe for 2 resistors from the same batch
but tolerances, sometimes a silver or gold band will give a clue
will change the outcome.
So as the saying goes: "Resistance is futile, you will be assimilated" >>>>> Opps, composite carbon reisors maye aso be sensitve to moisture? And maybe pressue?
Those would often go high in teefee sets...
...
Jan, you're massively over-complicating this! :-) The resistors in my
example are both 1k so it's half the supply rail. But you knew that
anyway.
The answers you gave show that you know your subject. Unfortunately,
as we know from what John's stated here before, the graduates he
interviews have no idea what the fuck they're doing. The Chinese are
going to kick our arses if they aren't already.
Oh - and carbon resistors are noisy. And I don't think you mentioned
the source resistance of the supply. We could go on. And on. And
on.... But that's not what John asked for. He only wanted a first
approximation which would be 5 Volts. But that's too much for today's
grads, it seems. :(
Sure, but I find it hard to believe,
we had a lab and were required to do measurements etc.. in my school days. >>> Not only electronics, some mechanics too.
But indeed there is nothing like practical experience, in my school
it was known that only hobbyists would psss the exams...
Electronics is a huge field, on top of that now comes programming.. oh and now AI..
And ever higher frequencies... ever more software (like peeseebee software for example)
protocols, what not... standarss...
And in spite of all that : US could do a moon return in the sixties, July 1969
now they are stuck and need to be saved from the ISS..
SpaceX just did sent up a rescue mission:
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/cy89kz8ge41o
US IQ is dropping, no empire lasted forever..
that US war mongering war machine has no place in evolution, same for israhell,
Religious brainwashed by theior leaders fanatics everywhere.
Digital dooms day clocks very very precise... atomic
You and I are old enough to remember back in the past when a situation
such as that in Ukraine/Russia or Israel/Palestine/Lebanon where
all-out war was a distinct likelihood, there would be any number of
peace envoys getting stuck in and trying to defuse the situation
before it escalated. Isn't it curious that we have no such initiatives
going ahead today?
I don't believe there's an innocent explanation for
that. These conflicts are 100% engineered by the people Trump refers
to as "The Swamp" and it's becoming ever more obvious that's the case
for even the most obtuse among the bovine, cud-chewing rabble that
form the bulk of the electorate in all democratic nations world-wide.
Darwin rules...!
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a
miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or
noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's
job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter >>single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned
out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job
as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his
new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company >>was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing >>treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
I see the trend, good circuit designers retiring and not being
replaced.
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 20:29:23 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 06:02:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>: >>>>>>
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9 >>>>>>>>>> volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's >>>>>>>>>> full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic
electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware. >>>>>>>>> Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination... >>>>>>>>> It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right >>>>>>>>>> and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>>>> emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's >>>>>>>> silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems >>>>>>>> to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get >>>>>>>> that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>>>>> take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6 >>>>>>> volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>>>>> are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to >>>>>>> ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so)
then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN) >>>>>> you need to take into account the base current that will among other things
decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage...
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
Amazing, I ordered some of these 2 weeks ago,
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/verkade-puur-intens-12x-111-gram/9300000158912440
all gone now :-)
So yesterday I went shopping, got new ones...
When winter comes a hot chocolate drink is good too, add some sugar:
https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi127402/blooker-cacaopoeder
It makes no sense that europeans are a zillion miles from the places
that grow chocolate, but make such good stuff. The Ritter Sport dark
stuff is great.
Nah, its all from the sun-drenched tropical mountains of Holland.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
There's actually a ski resort in the Netherlands.
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 19:53:49 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a >>>> miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or
noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's >>>job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter >>>single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned >>>out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job
as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his
new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company >>>was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing >>>treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
I see the trend, good circuit designers retiring and not being
replaced.
Maybe not yet, but pretty soon AI will do it better than humans.
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 23:16:26 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 10/2/24 22:29, Phil Hobbs wrote:
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 06:02:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>: >>>>>>
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>>>>>
I wouldn't hire someone who complicates a simple question into >>>>>>>>>>>> paralysis.
I draw a 10 volt battery connected to two resistors, 9K in series with 1K.
The problem there is 'draw', no reality.
The battery will have an internal resistance, maybe discharged too. >>>>>>>>>>>
What's the voltage across the 1K?
I hired a 3-month intern a month ago who failed the test. He said 9
volts. I hired him anyway and fired him as an intern on Friday. He's
full time now. He's mostly a software engineer. I'm teaching him basic
electronics now.
Well, that is OK.
But needs experimenting, building circuits, else all vaporware. >>>>>>>>>>> Same with software, write it, test it, else just imagination... >>>>>>>>>>> It may not be / work for everybody..
Some run for US precedent..
When I have to believe the crap trump puts out these days (about Iran for example)
4 sure (or maybe even 00 sure <where 00 is the symbol for infinite> ) we will have
WW3 no matter who is winning the electtions.
I dream of some day finding a kid who gets the voltage divider right
and has something intelligent so say about the next test, an NPN >>>>>>>>>>>> emitter follower.
Ge or Si?
John mentioned a Vb of 0.6V so the 'student' is expected to know it's
silicon. And of course, it's a Vbe of 0.6V and that distinction seems
to trip up a lot of young folks, it seems. The Vb is 5. Once they get
that straight, the rest of it falls into place easily enough. Should >>>>>>>>>> take < 30s for someone to figure out - and hopefully <<!
No, I said that one EE grad claimed that Vb (not Vbe) would be 0.6 >>>>>>>>> volts to ground.
Can anyone here say about what the base and emitter voltages actually >>>>>>>>> are? Collector current?
+10 supply, two 10Ks making a divider into the base, 1K emitter to >>>>>>>>> ground, typical small silicon NPN.
Depends on the beta, if YOU assume beta is huge ( >=300 or so) >>>>>>>> then base will be at about 5 V, emitter at about 4.3 V
current will then be 4.3 / 1000 or 4.3 mA
(I always go for .7 V Vbe for some reason)
Extra credit: anything else to say?
For a lower beta (may be as low as 10 for for example a power NPN) >>>>>>>> you need to take into account the base current that will among other things
decreae the base voltage followed by a lower emitter voltage... >>>>>>>>
Are credits chocolate?
Yes.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/7pmkpe7468dgzaatxi50w/Eng_Choc.jpg?rlkey=nmefiui4eqbzfzvhjdhbxcqla&raw=1
We have a direct account with Lundt.
Amazing, I ordered some of these 2 weeks ago,
https://www.bol.com/nl/nl/p/verkade-puur-intens-12x-111-gram/9300000158912440
all gone now :-)
So yesterday I went shopping, got new ones...
When winter comes a hot chocolate drink is good too, add some sugar: >>>>>> https://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi127402/blooker-cacaopoeder
It makes no sense that europeans are a zillion miles from the places >>>>> that grow chocolate, but make such good stuff. The Ritter Sport dark >>>>> stuff is great.
Nah, its all from the sun-drenched tropical mountains of Holland.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Yep, with mountain summits culminating at 40 cm above the local
water level. The smell of cocoa permeates the whole area. I had
an uncle working at Verkade.
Jeroen Belleman
My grandfather spent a few years being closely concerned with small >>differences of elevation in Flanders.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Where I grew up, 318 Broadway Street in New Orleans, we looked UP at
ships on the Mississippi river.
On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 23:03:24 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 19:53:49 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a >>>>> miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or
noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's >>>>job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter >>>>single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned >>>>out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job >>>>as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his >>>>new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company >>>>was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing >>>>treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
I see the trend, good circuit designers retiring and not being
replaced.
Maybe not yet, but pretty soon AI will do it better than humans.
Don't see how a simple quesion has enough information to generate a
complex design.
https://www.flux.ai/
Why do we have garbage like Windows and Outlook if AI is available?
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 19:53:49 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
I see the trend, good circuit designers retiring and not being
replaced.
Maybe not yet, but pretty soon AI will do it better than humans.
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 14:04:02 -0700, john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 20:29:23 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
john larkin <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 06:02:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 01 Oct 2024 07:50:47 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <eu2ofjhoa2566a02apvlhjlvil4gaq0536@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 01 Oct 2024 06:11:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 30 Sep 2024 08:24:38 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <7bglfjtll1os4g6pfqhf1i7jl0acmrvlqv@4ax.com>: >>>>>>>
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 11:13:56 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
On Mon, 30 Sep 2024 05:15:02 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 29 Sep 2024 10:36:26 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <kb3jfjpejs47hqjd00fis20eog8de19ae8@4ax.com>:
It makes no sense that europeans are a zillion miles from the places
that grow chocolate, but make such good stuff. The Ritter Sport dark
stuff is great.
Nah, it’s all from the sun-drenched tropical mountains of Holland.
There's actually a ski resort in the Netherlands.
Yeah, they probably made mountains out of all the submerged land they reclaimed from their North Sea coast. Never forget they'd invented
windmills centuries before they ever caught-on elsewhere as a solution
to green energy. ;-)
"john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:rb5ufj1pc4uk139u9n0rljvrliqacpllq3@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 23:03:24 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 19:53:49 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur >>>><clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a >>>>>> miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or >>>>>> noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's >>>>>job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter >>>>>single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned >>>>>out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job >>>>>as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his >>>>>new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company >>>>>was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing >>>>>treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
I see the trend, good circuit designers retiring and not being >>>>replaced.
Maybe not yet, but pretty soon AI will do it better than humans.
Don't see how a simple quesion has enough information to generate a
complex design.
https://www.flux.ai/
Why do we have garbage like Windows and Outlook if AI is available?
Because garbage made money and closed source meant no-one else could laugh at the code.
If Windows is ever rewritten by AI then it's likely to be in a way which does whatever is necessary to make more money.
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 20:20:21 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:rb5ufj1pc4uk139u9n0rljvrliqacpllq3@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 23:03:24 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 19:53:49 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur >>>>><clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a >>>>>>> miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or >>>>>>> noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's >>>>>>job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter >>>>>>single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned >>>>>>out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job >>>>>>as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his >>>>>>new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company >>>>>>was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing >>>>>>treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
I see the trend, good circuit designers retiring and not being >>>>>replaced.
Maybe not yet, but pretty soon AI will do it better than humans.
Don't see how a simple quesion has enough information to generate a
complex design.
Take a modular approach until such time as the algos improve.
https://www.flux.ai/
Why do we have garbage like Windows and Outlook if AI is available?
I haven't used either for very many years. Linux is *way* better in so
many ways.
Because garbage made money and closed source meant no-one else could laugh at the code.
Ha! ha! Well said, Edward; spot on!
If Windows is ever rewritten by AI then it's likely to be in a way which does whatever is necessary to make more money.
We could get AI to come up with something a little better than just
another version of Windows, I'd imagine. ;-)
"Cursitor Doom" <cd@notformail.com> wrote in message news:2c80gjt42h2f04f40i1i3n05j2pe4c3jqa@4ax.com...
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 20:20:21 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:rb5ufj1pc4uk139u9n0rljvrliqacpllq3@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 23:03:24 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 19:53:49 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur >>>>>><clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other
comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a >>>>>>>> miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or >>>>>>>> noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's >>>>>>>job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter >>>>>>>single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned >>>>>>>out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job >>>>>>>as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his >>>>>>>new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company >>>>>>>was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing >>>>>>>treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
I see the trend, good circuit designers retiring and not being >>>>>>replaced.
Maybe not yet, but pretty soon AI will do it better than humans.
Don't see how a simple quesion has enough information to generate a
complex design.
Take a modular approach until such time as the algos improve.
https://www.flux.ai/
Why do we have garbage like Windows and Outlook if AI is available?
I haven't used either for very many years. Linux is *way* better in so
many ways.
Outlook was always garbage. I currently set up emclient for anyone who wants an installable client which can handle many different
email addresses.
A Linux version of emclient would be nice but not likely to happen.
I use Windows 10 for daily work but Hyper-V has Windows xp and two debian servers.
I don't use a Linux desktop, just putty for command line and winscp for file access.
Just log in as root over SCP and use notepad++ to edit any file on the Linux system.
I also have linux boxes running proxmox.
Because garbage made money and closed source meant no-one else could laugh at the code.
Ha! ha! Well said, Edward; spot on!
If Windows is ever rewritten by AI then it's likely to be in a way which does whatever is necessary to make more money.
We could get AI to come up with something a little better than just
another version of Windows, I'd imagine. ;-)
Depends on who trains it, and what they train it to do, and what they train it to be.
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 14:56:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"Cursitor Doom" <cd@notformail.com> wrote in message news:2c80gjt42h2f04f40i1i3n05j2pe4c3jqa@4ax.com...
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 20:20:21 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:rb5ufj1pc4uk139u9n0rljvrliqacpllq3@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 23:03:24 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 19:53:49 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur >>>>>>><clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other >>>>>>>>> comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a
miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or >>>>>>>>> noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's >>>>>>>>job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter >>>>>>>>single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned >>>>>>>>out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job >>>>>>>>as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his >>>>>>>>new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company
was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing >>>>>>>>treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
I see the trend, good circuit designers retiring and not being >>>>>>>replaced.
Maybe not yet, but pretty soon AI will do it better than humans.
Don't see how a simple quesion has enough information to generate a
complex design.
Take a modular approach until such time as the algos improve.
https://www.flux.ai/
Why do we have garbage like Windows and Outlook if AI is available?
I haven't used either for very many years. Linux is *way* better in so
many ways.
Outlook was always garbage. I currently set up emclient for anyone who wants an installable client which can handle many different
email addresses.
A Linux version of emclient would be nice but not likely to happen.
I use Windows 10 for daily work but Hyper-V has Windows xp and two debian servers.
I don't use a Linux desktop, just putty for command line and winscp for file access.
Just log in as root over SCP and use notepad++ to edit any file on the Linux system.
I also have linux boxes running proxmox.
Because garbage made money and closed source meant no-one else could laugh at the code.
Ha! ha! Well said, Edward; spot on!
If Windows is ever rewritten by AI then it's likely to be in a way which does whatever is necessary to make more money.
We could get AI to come up with something a little better than just
another version of Windows, I'd imagine. ;-)
Depends on who trains it, and what they train it to do, and what they train it to be.
Well, so long as Bill Gates doesn't train it, it'll do just fine.
"Cursitor Doom" <cd@notformail.com> wrote in message news:lts0gjd4gsl84be5je9hcmen2dolt931fr@4ax.com...
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 14:56:37 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"Cursitor Doom" <cd@notformail.com> wrote in message news:2c80gjt42h2f04f40i1i3n05j2pe4c3jqa@4ax.com...
On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 20:20:21 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
<invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
"john larkin" <jl@glen--canyon.com> wrote in message news:rb5ufj1pc4uk139u9n0rljvrliqacpllq3@4ax.com...
On Thu, 03 Oct 2024 23:03:24 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>> wrote:
On Wed, 02 Oct 2024 19:53:49 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote: >>>>>>>
On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 16:45:37 +0100, Clive Arthur >>>>>>>><clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2024 19:11, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
If they get the DC part about right, I ask them for any other >>>>>>>>>> comments. All sorts of things could be mentioned.
With the base looking at 5K, it's unlikley to oscillate. It would be a
miracle if any kid even mentioned emitter follower oscillation. Or >>>>>>>>>> noise, or tempcos, or anything else.
Along with a colleague, I interviewed someone for a repair technician's
job a few years back. Among the questions was a simple common emitter >>>>>>>>>single transistor stage which we asked him to explain.
He blew us away. He knew *far* more detail than either of us. Turned >>>>>>>>>out he was a shit-hot analog designer looking for a less stressful job >>>>>>>>>as he wound down to retirement. He turned out to be brilliant at his >>>>>>>>>new job, and mentored a lot of younger people. He left when the company
was bought by a large US corporation with the concomitant mind-numbing >>>>>>>>>treacle-wading bullshit. [Me too!]
I see the trend, good circuit designers retiring and not being >>>>>>>>replaced.
Maybe not yet, but pretty soon AI will do it better than humans.
Don't see how a simple quesion has enough information to generate a >>>>>> complex design.
Take a modular approach until such time as the algos improve.
https://www.flux.ai/
Why do we have garbage like Windows and Outlook if AI is available?
I haven't used either for very many years. Linux is *way* better in so >>>> many ways.
Outlook was always garbage. I currently set up emclient for anyone who wants an installable client which can handle many different
email addresses.
A Linux version of emclient would be nice but not likely to happen.
I use Windows 10 for daily work but Hyper-V has Windows xp and two debian servers.
I don't use a Linux desktop, just putty for command line and winscp for file access.
Just log in as root over SCP and use notepad++ to edit any file on the Linux system.
I also have linux boxes running proxmox.
Because garbage made money and closed source meant no-one else could laugh at the code.
Ha! ha! Well said, Edward; spot on!
If Windows is ever rewritten by AI then it's likely to be in a way which does whatever is necessary to make more money.
We could get AI to come up with something a little better than just
another version of Windows, I'd imagine. ;-)
Depends on who trains it, and what they train it to do, and what they train it to be.
Well, so long as Bill Gates doesn't train it, it'll do just fine.
The BASIC interpreters were fine, but they were written in assembler and refined and refined for small memory footprint.
This had the side effect of making them super efficient and about as bug free as you can get.
They were also small enough that one person could understand all or nearly all of the code.
Problems started when multiple people started writing DOS in c.
Programmers were now shielded from what the processor was actually doing so issues such as unchecked buffer in just about everything
arose.
I've no idea whether Gates himself ever wrote anything in c but I suspect he did not.
I wonder whether AI will eventually get smart enough to look at current code at assembler level and refine it in a similar way.
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