• Exploding pagers

    From Crash Gordon@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 17 13:18:26 2024
    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
    pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
    device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
    to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    --
    I'm part of the vast libertarian conspiracy to take over the world and
    leave everyone alone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Tue Sep 17 15:39:17 2024
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
    device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
    to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to TTman on Tue Sep 17 15:32:44 2024
    On 9/17/2024 2:21 PM, TTman wrote:
    When I went through Israel 'security' at heathrow back in the late 90's, they put my video camera in a 'sniffer chamber' ( for want of a better word)...presumably to sniff for explosives.

    I've had laptops "swabbed" several times when passing through
    security here in the states. I'm assuming this to be a more
    effective way of collecting particles that could indicate
    something nasty inside.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to john larkin on Tue Sep 17 22:53:24 2024
    john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
    pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
    individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
    expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
    explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
    device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
    to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.



    I heard that Hezbollah had decreed cell phones were too easily compromised
    so thought lower tech would be better. Presumably the explosive material
    was somehow embedded within the battery assembly as that is the only
    largish object inside suitable for concealment?


    --
    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to john larkin on Tue Sep 17 19:03:45 2024
    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
    pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
    individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
    expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
    explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
    device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
    to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    Well, after it became widely believed that Israel was targeting
    residents of Gaza based on smartphone data..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Sep 17 16:32:19 2024
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
    individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
    expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
    explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
    device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
    to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.


    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    Well, after it became widely believed that Israel was targeting
    residents of Gaza based on smartphone data..

    That makes sense. Most governments find bad guys that way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to john larkin on Tue Sep 17 21:56:22 2024
    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
    own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    The current Middle East conflict continues beyond all rational
    proportion or benefit with respect to the inciting incident, mainly
    because one Netanyahu and cronies find it politically expedient to
    continue it, similar to how Bush II found a multi-front war politically expedient.


    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    Well, after it became widely believed that Israel was targeting
    residents of Gaza based on smartphone data..

    That makes sense. Most governments find bad guys that way.


    Yes all the latest high-tech toys the US and Israeli surveillance state
    can come up with are getting a good work-out and break in period over
    there, you'd think that might give the average Trumper facing down the
    prospect of the better part of a decade of life under "Queen Kamala" pause..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Sep 17 21:09:45 2024
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
    own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Robertson@21:1/5 to john larkin on Tue Sep 17 21:56:35 2024
    On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
    own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?


    Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
    hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?

    I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
    and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
    of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
    of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
    for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
    up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.

    What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
    Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
    before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to uucp@crashelex.com on Wed Sep 18 06:30:32 2024
    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500) it happened Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> wrote in <vcch5i$3klpd$1@dont-email.me>:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
    device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
    to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    I have just read on RT (en.wpc.rt.com has address 89.191.237.192 if case it is blocked type 89.191.237.192 in your browser)
    that e batteros were repalced with ones conating explosives:

    Quoting RT:
    Lebanon pager blasts ‘indistinguishable from terrorism’ – Snowden
    The remotely detonated explosions were “reckless” and indiscriminate, the former NSA contractor argued
    Lebanon pager blasts ‘indistinguishable from terrorism’ – Snowden
    People arrive at the Red Cross building in Beirut to donate blood following a series of pager explosions in Lebanon on September 17, 2024.
    © Houssam Shbaro / Anadolu / Getty Images
    The wave of synchronized pager explosions in Lebanon was “reckless” because the method did not account for potential civilian casualties, Edward Snowden has said.
    At least nine people were killed and some 2,800 injured across Lebanon when handheld pagers used by Hezbollah members simultaneously exploded on Tuesday.
    The pro-Palestinian militant group has blamed Israel for “sinful aggression” and vowed to retaliate.
    Israel has not acknowledged any involvement in the blasts.
    The Jewish state, however, has conducted airstrikes against Hezbollah members in the past and threatened more “military action” if the group does not stop its cross-border attacks on Israelis.
    Writing on X on Tuesday, Snowden suggested the pagers had likely detonated due to “implanted explosives” rather than being hacked because there were “too many consistent, very serious injuries.”

    “What Israel has just done is, via *any* method, reckless,” the former NSA contractor argued.
    “They blew up countless numbers of people who were driving (meaning cars out of control), shopping (your children are in the stroller standing behind him in the checkout line), et cetera.
    Indistinguishable from terrorism.”

    Sky News Arabia cited its sources as saying that the Israeli spy agency Mossad placed “a quantity” of the highly explosive material PETN (pentaerythritol tetranitrate) in the batteries of the pagers, and remotely detonated them by raising the
    temperature of the batteries.
    The rigged devices were reportedly part of a shipment that arrived in Lebanon earlier this year.
    Eight killed, thousands injured as pagers explode across Lebanon (VIDEO)

    The Lebanese authorities said civilians were among those injured.
    France 24 cited a Hezbollah source as saying a 10-year-old daughter of a Hezbollah member was killed.
    The group acknowledged on Wednesday that eight of its members had been killed, according to Sky News Arabia.

    Former IDF spokesman Jonathan Conricus pushed back against accusations that the explosions were tantamount to “indiscriminate” attacks.

    “Indiscriminate?? This is as surgical as you could possibly get, only targeting Hezbollah operatives that were important enough to have been issued special comms devices,” he wrote on X.
    He added that Hezbollah has been “attacking Israel for over 11 months, forcing 70K Israelis out of their homes.”

    Israeli Defense Minister Yoav Gallant warned on Monday that “military action” would be necessary to ensure the safety of Israelis living in the areas close to the Lebanese border.
    US officials, however, have publicly discouraged Israel from taking steps that could trigger a full-blown war in Lebanon.

    You can share this story on social media:


    Will Usenet last?

    Every action has a reaction israhell!!!!!!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Wed Sep 18 16:33:28 2024
    On 18/09/2024 2:09 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
    own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

    Their insensitivity to collateral damage makes them look like decidedly barbarian creeps too.

    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?

    That's not the only option. If Israel negotiated a good enough deal with
    the non-barbarian majority in occupied Palestine, that majority might
    reject Hamas. Killing off dozens of the non-barbarian majority for every
    Hamas member eliminated isn't a route to that kind of solution.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jl@650pot.com on Wed Sep 18 06:37:13 2024
    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
    to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when temperature rised above some point
    They could heat your smartphone battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
    Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to JL@gct.com on Wed Sep 18 06:42:09 2024
    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:09:45 -0700) it happened john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote in <ffkkejlmnbvquu57b24ak7lmi320cr9j19@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our >>own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against >barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

    Bull, they are just a bunch of religious fanatics who believe in Mosex
    fireants

    Its just a religious brainwashed bunch.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Wed Sep 18 02:45:43 2024
    On 9/18/2024 12:56 AM, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
    own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?


    Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
    hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?

    I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
    and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
    of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
    of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
    for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
    up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.

    What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
    Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
    before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

    John

    The US is the last country anyone takes seriously as mediator of any
    kind of "peace process."

    Imagine if some country like North Korea ever injured 2,000 Americans
    with exploding pagers, would there still be a "peace process"?

    Any country that did that, the US would go there and shoot them and bomb
    them and bomb them and shoot them and bomb them and bomb them and bomb
    them until the end of time. The US has been bombing Iraq at least
    monthly for the better part of 40 years, when in living memory has the
    US ever "made peace" with anyone!

    Amusingly, Donald Trump likely did somewhat more for world peace in
    practice than any president in the 50 years prior. Not really
    intentionally mind you but mainly because he likes the easy wins and is
    so pretty selective about his wars, and even he's smart enough (so far)
    to not to get embroiled in land wars in Asia against people who didn't
    do shit to us directly.

    But no doubt if something like 9/11 happened on his watch he'd want to
    glassify half the middle east immediately, and there were likely people
    in positions of power over there who believed he'd do it too. Like
    Reagan's tenure, having millions of people one senile washed-up TV
    personality away from incineration is what the right-wing media tends to
    refer to as "geopolitical stability."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Bill Sloman on Wed Sep 18 03:00:47 2024
    On 9/18/2024 2:33 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 18/09/2024 2:09 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
    own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

    Their insensitivity to collateral damage makes them look like decidedly barbarian creeps too.

    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?

    That's not the only option. If Israel negotiated a good enough deal with
     the non-barbarian majority in occupied Palestine, that majority might reject Hamas. Killing off dozens of the non-barbarian majority for every Hamas member eliminated isn't a route to that kind of solution.


    The US is mostly "smart" enough to ensure its wars create massive
    humanitarian, infrastructure, and sanitation crises in countries
    thousands of miles away from Washington, but creating one 42 miles from
    your nation's capital is ah...well it's an "interesting strategy" to say
    the least.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jrr@flippers.com on Wed Sep 18 06:53:02 2024
    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:35 -0700) it happened John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote in <vcdmi3$3ug4t$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
    own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?


    Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
    hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?

    I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
    and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
    of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
    of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
    for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
    up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.

    What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
    Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
    before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

    John

    The problem is that netanyahoo is a pawn used by the US Military Complex to make as much war and sell as many weapons
    as possible to help the bankrupted you ash of aaaa and suck its taxpayers.
    Same with shitlensky in youcrane
    The October attack plan was known, but netanyahoo diverted their defence to get a reason to stir of war and destory Palestine
    the contiuouse provokation by israhell in the westbank, the closing of sea access to Palestine etc etc all provokations

    Does evolution ALLOW for such a nasty species like youuws?
    We will see!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to john larkin on Wed Sep 18 11:01:07 2024
    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>> individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>> expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
    device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Wed Sep 18 12:55:58 2024
    On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>> individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>> expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
    to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
    all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses making war industry...
    US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
    Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...

    Brain dead evil country.
    I liked Reagan, demorats had a shot at him too..
    Trump could make peace and avoid WW3, should nominate Elon Musk
    as presidential candy .. candidate..
    byethen and chameon harry WANT WW3, israhell just a pawn in their game play.

    What will be left after all the nuking will be China and Russia
    at least their nukes work.
    Communism may well be a much better system, at least it is for the people
    not for the profit of some idiots only
    That is also what you ysee in nature, Darwinism has a story to tell
    and lessons to learn.
    And there is the intergalactic 'kwantuum if you will' connection of it all
    will it allow confused species to persist?

    One would think now that we learned so much about RNA and DNA and how it works that
    ...
    and most is of the topic here anyways, keeping alive is topic 1, the play with sjips
    is than an option...

    this poothing is sjecked by spellshaker

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From chrisq@21:1/5 to john larkin on Wed Sep 18 15:00:23 2024
    On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
    own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
    war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying
    to destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on
    both sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...


    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 18 07:52:30 2024
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:35 -0700, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com>
    wrote:

    On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
    own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?


    Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
    hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?

    Nobody wants the gazan Palestinians. Not Jordan, not Egypt, nobody.

    Israel would be a peaceful ally and a serious asset to that part of
    the world, but the shiites want the Jews all dead.




    I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
    and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
    of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
    of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
    for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
    up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.

    Israel is sending a message: we value our citizens, and not all of
    those citizens are Jews.

    There are few terrorists on the Israeli side.

    "Judiasism is the religion of life and Islam is the religion of
    death."


    What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
    Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
    before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

    The islamic crazies won't have it. They must kill the Jews and
    islamize Israel. The Koran demands it.

    This is a battle for civilization, the path from The Ten Commandments
    through the Enlightment and the Constitution and universal human
    rights.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 18 08:03:35 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:42:09 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:09:45 -0700) it happened john larkin ><JL@gct.com> wrote in <ffkkejlmnbvquu57b24ak7lmi320cr9j19@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our >>>own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on >>>the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous >>>terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against >>barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

    Bull, they are just a bunch of religious fanatics who believe in Mosex >fireants

    Its just a religious brainwashed bunch.

    Israel has citizens, and elected officials, who are Muslims and
    Christians and women and gays and all sorts of stuff. It's a modern
    democracy. Gays and uppity women get stoned to death in some places.

    Israel is also a major electronics and biotech center. And Gal Godot
    is awfully cute.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to chrisq on Wed Sep 18 08:04:48 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 15:00:23 +0100, chrisq <devzero@nospam.com> wrote:

    On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
    own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
    the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
    war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying
    to destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on
    both sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...


    Only savages take - and murder - innocent hostages.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 18 08:07:39 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when temperature rised above some point
    They could heat your smartphone battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make. >Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    No pager battery has that sort of explosive power, or can be detonated
    with precise timing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Wanderer@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 18 12:34:34 2024
    How safe do you feel buying on Ebay and Amazon right now?
    Now among the fake eclipse glasses and replacement batteries
    that catch fire and other cheap Chinese fakes, we also have
    to worry about terrorism. Let's open up a new front on supply
    chain terrorism. Israel only hit military targets. Explain that
    to people who strap bombs on to themselves and blow up rooms full
    of people. How do you protect against supply chain terrorism?
    How do you keep Gaza protesters from selling on ebay? I remember
    Tylenol tampering and whole industries had to adopt tamper proof
    products. What now, cradle to grave tracking on all products.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Wed Sep 18 17:19:59 2024
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:35 -0700, John Robertson wrote:

    On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind
    of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
    our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
    rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
    dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?


    Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
    hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?

    I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
    and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
    of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
    of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
    for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
    up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.

    What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
    Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
    before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

    Not to mention Ukraine/Russia!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Sep 18 17:25:04 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 03:00:47 -0400, bitrex wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 2:33 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 18/09/2024 2:09 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind >>>>>> of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
    our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
    rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
    dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.

    Their insensitivity to collateral damage makes them look like decidedly
    barbarian creeps too.

    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?

    That's not the only option. If Israel negotiated a good enough deal
    with
     the non-barbarian majority in occupied Palestine, that majority
     might
    reject Hamas. Killing off dozens of the non-barbarian majority for
    every Hamas member eliminated isn't a route to that kind of solution.


    The US is mostly "smart" enough to ensure its wars create massive humanitarian, infrastructure, and sanitation crises in countries
    thousands of miles away from Washington, but creating one 42 miles from
    your nation's capital is ah...well it's an "interesting strategy" to say
    the least.

    Balitmore?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to chrisq on Wed Sep 18 17:30:23 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 15:00:23 +0100, chrisq wrote:

    On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind
    of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
    our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
    rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
    dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
    war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying to destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on both
    sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
    anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly state-backed terrorism AFAICS. And now we have the walkie-talkies! Looks
    like Hezbolla are going to have to learn semaphore. ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Wed Sep 18 17:34:48 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
    group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
    would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
    pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
    like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
    of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
    it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
    it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the Israelis
    are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
    Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
    on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
    Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
    pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
    there.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Wed Sep 18 11:08:44 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 15:00:23 +0100, chrisq wrote:

    On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind >>>>>> of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
    our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
    rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
    dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
    war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying to
    destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on both
    sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on >anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly >state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

    Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Wed Sep 18 14:46:07 2024
    On 9/18/2024 1:34 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
    Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
    on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
    pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
    there.

    Lol sure, dream on. It's about the only fight he's interested in
    fighting due the eternal war against Islam being one of the main reasons
    his Evangelical "friends" are in with this thrice-divorced adulterer in
    the first place.

    The only choice we have with respect to the Middle East conflict this
    November is whether we want US aid to Israel to go up, or way up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Wed Sep 18 14:52:55 2024
    On 9/18/2024 1:34 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:

    The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
    on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
    pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
    there.

    Incidentally Trump and Harris hardly discussed foreign policy at the
    debates at all, there is no novel thinking to be found there.

    Outside of the context of Evangelicals and the aforementioned forever
    war the overwhelming majority of Americans simply don't give a fuck
    about foreign policy as an election issue, so it's a waste of time for
    either of them to even think much about it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to erichpwagner@hotmail.com on Wed Sep 18 15:12:34 2024
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 22:53:24 -0000 (UTC), piglet
    <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:

    john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
    individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
    expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
    explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
    device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
    to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.



    I heard that Hezbollah had decreed cell phones were too easily compromised
    so thought lower tech would be better. Presumably the explosive material
    was somehow embedded within the battery assembly as that is the only
    largish object inside suitable for concealment?

    Mossad did that in a cellphone used to assassinate a famous bomb
    maker, Yahya Ayyash, in 1996.

    I'm guessing that the high explosive was used as the potting agent, so
    the pager would look as expected when X-rayed. TNT melts at 82 C.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerhard Hoffmann@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 18 22:01:24 2024
    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
    anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
    state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

    Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

    Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
    deaths yesterday.

    But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
    to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
    and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
    hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
    Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
    That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
    promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
    They still meet under his flag.

    You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
    look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

    Gerhard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Wed Sep 18 13:06:44 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>> group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
    would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
    pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
    it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the Israelis
    are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
    Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish >terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
    on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if >Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
    pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
    there.

    The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
    UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
    lost.

    They said that the transmissions in Egyptian tanks had one speed
    forward and four in reverse.

    It is hard for the muslims to make peace with themselves, much less
    with Israel.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Sep 18 13:07:54 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 14:46:07 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 1:34 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
    Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish
    terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME >> on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
    Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
    pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
    there.

    Lol sure, dream on. It's about the only fight he's interested in
    fighting due the eternal war against Islam being one of the main reasons
    his Evangelical "friends" are in with this thrice-divorced adulterer in
    the first place.

    The only choice we have with respect to the Middle East conflict this >November is whether we want US aid to Israel to go up, or way up.

    Islam is at war with Islam.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerhard Hoffmann@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 18 22:23:11 2024
    Am 18.09.24 um 22:07 schrieb john larkin:

    Islam is at war with Islam.

    and with all other mutations of this bronze time idol/ghost
    and all mutations against each other.

    Worst invention ever to hit humanity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Wed Sep 18 16:32:53 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>> individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>> expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    There are many definitions of terrorism:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 18 13:40:02 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 22:01:24 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
    wrote:

    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
    anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
    state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

    Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

    Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
    deaths yesterday.

    That was accidental, collateral damage. Sadly, that happens in war.

    I doubt it was her pager.




    But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
    to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
    and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
    hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
    Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
    That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
    promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
    They still meet under his flag.

    You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
    look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

    I live in San Francisco and rarely thump bibles. And I confess to
    being 3/4 German and 1/4 Irish.

    I was surprised to recently receive two Chinese bibles.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/4pq3z9oj6agen6x6u6ynm/Bibles.jpg?rlkey=rvyuijs1nc3j6u6yiplfmpxq0&raw=1





    Gerhard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Wed Sep 18 16:46:17 2024
    On 9/18/2024 3:12 PM, Joe Gwinn wrote:

    I heard that Hezbollah had decreed cell phones were too easily compromised >> so thought lower tech would be better. Presumably the explosive material
    was somehow embedded within the battery assembly as that is the only
    largish object inside suitable for concealment?

    Mossad did that in a cellphone used to assassinate a famous bomb
    maker, Yahya Ayyash, in 1996.

    I'm guessing that the high explosive was used as the potting agent, so
    the pager would look as expected when X-rayed. TNT melts at 82 C.

    Joe Gwinn

    It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
    and humiliation for the perpetrators.

    IMO makes it less likely there was any "precise targeting" going on, the
    higher up in the organization you target with these things, and the
    longer you wait to blow them, the more likely discovery becomes.

    Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
    organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
    terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know anything was amiss.

    Realistic explanation: They shipped in a bunch of them in a hurry, doled
    them out in a hurry to just about whomever wanted one, and popped
    whomever was unfortunate enough to get their hands on one within about
    two weeks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerhard Hoffmann@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 18 22:46:23 2024
    Am 18.09.24 um 22:06 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
    UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
    lost.

    What is the fucking biz of the Brits to partition this region?
    Everywhere on the world where there are straight frontiers the Brits
    are not far away. That means that the people who used to live there
    do not have any influence. As much as your Grand-Grand-GrandPa hat on
    the food exports from Ireland during the famine.

    No, having a king-sized base near the Suez channel is no justification.
    But then, it would take more time to call their underlings from Nepals,
    India, Africa or down under for help.

    And what has the UN to say? An organization with veto countries, a club
    of the mighty with payed claqueurs, oohh, democracy..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Gerhard Hoffmann on Wed Sep 18 16:48:01 2024
    On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
    anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
    state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

    Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

    Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
    deaths yesterday.

    But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
    to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
    and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
    hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
    Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
    That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
    promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
    They still meet under his flag.

    You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
    look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

    Gerhard


    It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
    and humiliation for the perpetrators.

    Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
    organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
    terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know anything was amiss.

    Realistic explanation: They shipped in a bunch of them in a hurry, doled
    them out in a hurry to just about whomever wanted one, and popped
    whomever was unfortunate enough to get their hands on one within about
    two weeks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 18 14:33:36 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 22:46:23 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
    wrote:

    Am 18.09.24 um 22:06 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
    UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
    lost.

    What is the fucking biz of the Brits to partition this region?
    Everywhere on the world where there are straight frontiers the Brits
    are not far away. That means that the people who used to live there
    do not have any influence. As much as your Grand-Grand-GrandPa hat on
    the food exports from Ireland during the famine.

    No, having a king-sized base near the Suez channel is no justification.
    But then, it would take more time to call their underlings from Nepals, >India, Africa or down under for help.

    And what has the UN to say? An organization with veto countries, a club
    of the mighty with payed claqueurs, oohh, democracy..

    Given that some people and countries were serfs of a colonial empire,
    the ex-British colonies sure seem to do best.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Sep 18 18:57:50 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
    anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
    state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

    Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

    Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
    deaths yesterday.

    But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
    to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
    and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
    hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
    Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
    That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
    promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
    They still meet under his flag.

    You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
    look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

    Gerhard


    It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
    and humiliation for the perpetrators.

    Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
    organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
    terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know >anything was amiss.

    And so stupid as to allow the same trick on their walki-talkies the
    next day.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Wed Sep 18 19:03:22 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:19:59 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:35 -0700, John Robertson wrote:

    On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind >>>>>> of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
    our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
    rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
    dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
    retreat in disgrace.

    Retreat into the sea?


    Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
    hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?

    I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
    and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
    of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
    of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
    for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
    up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.

    What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
    Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
    before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

    Not to mention Ukraine/Russia!

    History is full of insane dictators who made megadeaths. Lots of
    Russians.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Sep 19 14:09:35 2024
    On 19/09/2024 12:03 pm, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:19:59 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:35 -0700, John Robertson wrote:

    On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
    Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
    before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.

    Not to mention Ukraine/Russia!

    History is full of insane dictators who made megadeaths.

    Not exactly full. Megadeaths need modern industrial civilisation.

    Hitler, Stalin and Mao are the only candidates that spring to my mind.

    Lots of Russians.

    Stalin is the only example I can come up with. Lenin wasn't insane and
    didn't kill all that many people. Putin may have ambitions to qualify
    but he isn't there yet.

    Trump may well be insane, and his mishandling of the Covid-19 pandemic
    in the US did lead to more than a million Americans dying of the
    disease, but since an more competent president might have only halved
    the number of deaths, he probably doesn't qualify either.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Doom on Thu Sep 19 06:24:01 2024
    On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in <vcf2nf$4tmp$4@dont-email.me>:

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on >anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly >state-backed terrorism AFAICS. And now we have the walkie-talkies! Looks
    like Hezbolla are going to have to learn semaphore. ;-)

    Indeed.
    It looks like Israhell was hacked, as now they destroyed every way they had to get position and planning from Lebanon's forces
    by listening in on pagers and walking talkers ..

    I have a good Chinese smartphone, an old Nokia I do trust, some other Nokias I am not so sure about
    but did not see anything special in those ..

    Maybe Hezbollah could use satellite 'Starlink'? and encryption...
    Bit harder to spot where the transmitter is...
    There are many ways, modulated laser beam to relay post,
    people as message carriers, flags, ultrasonics... mirrors, smoke signals :-) birds or auto-pilot drones with data on SDcards..
    There is likely no end to what can be done.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Gerhard Hoffmann on Thu Sep 19 10:21:34 2024
    On 2024-09-18 22:46, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 18.09.24 um 22:06 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
    UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
    lost.

    What is the fucking biz of the Brits to partition this region?

    They were tasked by the UN (this time).

    And they did similar thing in several places. Intentionally setting the conditions for eternal war in the areas they administered so that they
    would be eternally weak.

    But again, this is off topic.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Thu Sep 19 10:23:10 2024
    On 2024-09-18 22:32, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:


    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel >>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    There are many definitions of terrorism:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>

    Very true. There is not a full definition, internationally
    approved/accepted definition of terrorism.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Sep 19 20:27:33 2024
    On 19/09/2024 1:04 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 15:00:23 +0100, chrisq <devzero@nospam.com> wrote:

    On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our >>>> own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on >>>> the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
    terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
    war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying
    to destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on
    both sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...


    Only savages take - and murder - innocent hostages.

    But Israel's casual attitude to collateral damage is equally uncivilised.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Sep 19 20:24:23 2024
    On 19/09/2024 11:57 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    <snip>

    And so stupid as to allow the same trick on their walki-talkies the
    next day.

    Both the pagers and the walkie-talkies were sabotaged - and sold to
    Hezbollah - some time ago. Quite why Israel didn't blow up both sets of
    gear at the same time escapes me. Most likely it was two different
    operations, having a common inspiration and separate implementations.

    My guess is the people who set up the walkie-talkie operation were
    surprised when the pagers were blown up and blew up their units as soon
    as possible afterwards, before their gear could get run through X-ray
    imagers.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Sep 19 20:32:03 2024
    On 19/09/2024 6:06 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>> pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>> it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the Israelis >>>> are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
    Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish
    terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME >> on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
    Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
    pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
    there.

    The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
    UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
    lost.

    They said that the transmissions in Egyptian tanks had one speed
    forward and four in reverse.

    Recycled joke from the WW2 Italian campaign.

    It is hard for the muslims to make peace with themselves, much less
    with Israel.

    Christians have much the same problem. The hundred years war thinned out
    that
    particular gene pool, but it does seem to be built into the religious
    mind-set.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From noel@21:1/5 to Bill Sloman on Thu Sep 19 22:47:12 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:27:33 +1000, Bill Sloman wrote:

    On 19/09/2024 1:04 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 15:00:23 +0100, chrisq <devzero@nospam.com> wrote:

    On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind >>>>>>> of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for >>>>>> secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
    our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
    rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
    dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.

    The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
    barbarian creeps who want them all dead.


    Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
    war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying to
    destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on both
    sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...


    Only savages take - and murder - innocent hostages.

    But Israel's casual attitude to collateral damage is equally
    uncivilised.

    indeed, there is no way known, that israels murder squads can absolutely guarantee that none of the supply chain batch didnt get diverted to a
    private company, say, in the U.S.A.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From noel@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu Sep 19 22:43:20 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:


    Trump could make peace and avoid WW3,

    you're fucking kidding right, that cunt had the entire world on brink of
    a nuclear ww3, the only reason NK didnt pull that trigger is coz Kimmy,
    like the rest of the world, was too busy rolling around the floor
    laughing his arse off at the stupid fool runing the U.S.A.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Thu Sep 19 23:53:13 2024
    On 19/09/2024 11:27 pm, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 10:23:10 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 22:32, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>
    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

    <snip>

    There is a repeating pattern here:

    We have two countries, A and B, at war with one another.

    Country A uses weapons of low accuracy, killing mostly civilians plus
    a few unlucky military.

    Country B uses weapons of high accuracy, killing mostly military plus
    a few unlucky civilians.

    Which is better, and why?

    Not a relevant question in this context. Israel may be using some
    weapons of high accuracy, but what they are mostly using are heavy
    weapons which kill a lot more civilians (and children) than the military
    they were presumably aimed at.

    If lots of civilians end up dead anyway, the "accuracy" of the weapons
    is of largely academic interest.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Thu Sep 19 09:27:03 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 10:23:10 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 22:32, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>> wrote:


    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    There are many definitions of terrorism:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>

    Very true. There is not a full definition, internationally
    approved/accepted definition of terrorism.

    There is a repeating pattern here:

    We have two countries, A and B, at war with one another.

    Country A uses weapons of low accuracy, killing mostly civilians plus
    a few unlucky military.

    Country B uses weapons of high accuracy, killing mostly military plus
    a few unlucky civilians.

    Which is better, and why?

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 19 07:42:35 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:32:53 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>>>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>>> individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>>> expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>>>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel >>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    There are many definitions of terrorism:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>

    Joe Gwinn

    Does that include slaughtering and raping people at a concert?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 19 07:45:22 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." ><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>>>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>>> individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>>> expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>>>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
    highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel >>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
    to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
    all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses >making war industry...
    US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
    Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...

    Brain dead evil country.

    OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.

    And invite Germany back in to rule your country.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to deletethis@invalid.lan on Thu Sep 19 15:38:41 2024
    On a sunny day (19 Sep 2024 22:43:20 +1000) it happened noel <deletethis@invalid.lan> wrote in <66ec1c68$1@news.ausics.net>:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:


    Trump could make peace and avoid WW3,

    you're fucking kidding right, that cunt had the entire world on brink of
    a nuclear ww3, the only reason NK didnt pull that trigger is coz Kimmy,
    like the rest of the world, was too busy rolling around the floor
    laughing his arse off at the stupid fool runing the U.S.A.

    There was peas during Trump's rule
    He tried to use his friend Faulty to hit China with some bat virus, but it backfired, killed millions, US war industry again.
    Then used the US Medical Indudtrial Complex to kill more people
    with covid vacine triggered bloodcloths and other side effects etc..
    I never got a covid shot, so here I am.
    they would not let me in 'effen as I did not have the required 4 shots and down below
    the boss was afraid of the competition.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to JL@gct.com on Thu Sep 19 15:30:41 2024
    On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote in <a4eoejlqa3q0gols8jpedac890a9cg7ok2@4ax.com>:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." >><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
    pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>>>> individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>>>> expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel >>>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
    to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
    all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses >>making war industry...
    US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
    Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...

    Brain dead evil country.

    OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.

    It was the *US* that had youcrane blow up the Russian Northstream pipelines to the rest of Europe.
    Food> from the US? Nothing I eat.
    Why do you think your country has the largest deficit in the world.
    Becaue nobody wants to buy your shit, China is better and cheaper.
    WE have the real chip tech FYI, it scares the US so much they try anything to get us
    not exporting it to for example China.
    The d*mn F35 that our CVA controlled poly-ticsians bought tho rpelace the old F16s
    makes so much noise that there are now groups standing up againt it
    and other example for US crap, a ten year old with a stone can kill it.
    your Ali-Gator electret will detect it miles away, no radar needed to get a slingshot at it.


    And invite Germany back in to rule your country.

    Well, we are both in the EU and make decisions together with other countries. Anyasy I decided some time ago to stop with rapis.
    Posted about that and why here.
    As far as sjips go, raspies are made in the UK FYI.

    China and Korea has most stuff I need, teefee, monitors all Samsung Harddisks:Japan
    SDcards: Samsung
    Camaras: Japan and smartphone xiaomi from China
    Lotd of other Chinese stuff, from GPS receivers to Oleds, to LCD⇧s, LEDs, what not.
    Just received a detonation message on my Nokia (also made in Europe) but had removed the
    the 'plosives long ago.
    Was in the kitchen anyways when it happened, phone in the living room,.
    You say you are part German, can you even read or speak German?
    Without Von Braun you 'merricans would never have reached the moon.
    Without Russia neither ,'merricans were just trying to catch up, show off... AND on top of that after all the youwish genocide YOU support, makes me think if Hitler had a point.
    Was a program about 'Mein Kampf' here on German TV a few month ago, you can
    get it online it seems.

    It all depends now does it?
    YouAshAAAAAAAH's game is to create wars, use CIA to support rebellion parties, movement, now in Venezuela,
    tensions you create make utra right getting stronger and stronger.
    You never did win from Germany, it was Russia that did win
    as it did from Nappy,
    YouAshAAAAA was fighting Japanese and when it could not win it used genocide on Japanese citicens
    to make Japan surrender, an ather US war crime as was Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc Youcrane
    If you had any self-respect you would move to your German [square] roots At least *I* told the CIA to fuck of
    when they asked me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash Gordon@21:1/5 to Bill Sloman on Thu Sep 19 10:47:15 2024
    On 9/19/2024 5:24 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    My guess is the people who set up the walkie-talkie operation were
    surprised when the pagers were blown up and blew up their units as soon
    as possible afterwards, before their gear could get run through X-ray imagers.

    My thought was that the attackers knew that the pagers were in daily use
    and the walkies were backups. So they blew the pagers, left a day for survivors to switch to walkies, then blew them to clean up stragglers.

    --
    I'm part of the vast libertarian conspiracy to take over the world and
    leave everyone alone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash Gordon@21:1/5 to Crash Gordon on Thu Sep 19 10:59:43 2024
    On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.

    I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
    *how* this was accomplished. So I'll answer my own question.

    Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
    detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature. Then installed
    these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
    wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
    said it should be.

    Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
    up resulting in detonation of the PETN. I wouldn't be surprised to find
    a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
    pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
    over the threshold. Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
    heating when the battery is being charged.

    The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
    but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.

    --
    I'm part of the vast libertarian conspiracy to take over the world and
    leave everyone alone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Sep 19 11:52:20 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:42:35 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:32:53 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
    pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>>>> individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>>>> expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
    injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel >>>
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    There are many definitions of terrorism:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>

    Joe Gwinn

    Does that include slaughtering and raping people at a concert?

    I don't have the energy to check all those definitions, but one would
    think that the concert is clearly terrorism, not just collateral
    damage. But the original question concerned collateral damage, as
    discussed in another posting.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 19 09:18:37 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 10:59:43 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.

    I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
    *how* this was accomplished. So I'll answer my own question.

    Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
    detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature. Then installed
    these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
    wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
    said it should be.

    Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
    up resulting in detonation of the PETN. I wouldn't be surprised to find
    a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
    pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
    over the threshold. Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
    heating when the battery is being charged.

    The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
    but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.

    It sounds easier to just add an explosive and a detonator.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Crash Gordon on Thu Sep 19 18:00:58 2024
    Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted individuals.

    The latest round has been sonic booms during a speech from 'a secret
    location'. What better way of identifying the location than by
    generating a sonic boom and accurately timing when it is heard in the
    speech?


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to bitrex on Thu Sep 19 20:11:24 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 14:46:07 -0400, bitrex wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 1:34 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
    Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to
    Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups
    in the ME on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else.
    Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow
    themselves to pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have
    peace over there.

    Lol sure, dream on. It's about the only fight he's interested in
    fighting due the eternal war against Islam being one of the main reasons
    his Evangelical "friends" are in with this thrice-divorced adulterer in
    the first place.

    The only choice we have with respect to the Middle East conflict this November is whether we want US aid to Israel to go up, or way up.

    Given what they're doing with it, I'd sooner it be cut off altogether.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to bitrex on Thu Sep 19 20:26:23 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
    anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
    state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

    Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

    Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
    deaths yesterday.

    But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to
    be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
    some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
    over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
    Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
    That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
    promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
    They still meet under his flag.

    You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look
    it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

    Gerhard


    It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
    and humiliation for the perpetrators.

    Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
    organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
    terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know anything was amiss.

    Realistic explanation: They shipped in a bunch of them in a hurry, doled
    them out in a hurry to just about whomever wanted one, and popped
    whomever was unfortunate enough to get their hands on one within about
    two weeks.

    Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on board
    at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines' explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll have
    to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't
    happen going forward.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to bitrex on Thu Sep 19 20:18:27 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 14:52:55 -0400, bitrex wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 1:34 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:

    The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to
    Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups
    in the ME on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else.
    Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow
    themselves to pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have
    peace over there.

    Incidentally Trump and Harris hardly discussed foreign policy at the
    debates at all, there is no novel thinking to be found there.

    Outside of the context of Evangelicals and the aforementioned forever
    war the overwhelming majority of Americans simply don't give a fuck
    about foreign policy as an election issue, so it's a waste of time for
    either of them to even think much about it.

    The US devolved foreign policy to Israel a long, long time ago. And given
    as you say the average American isn't bothered, it's not something that'll merit much air-time in any debate. It'll be all about the Left accusing
    Trump of being callous and uncaring and the Right about tax rises under
    Harris.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Sep 19 20:29:16 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 13:40:02 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 22:01:24 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
    wrote:

    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
    anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
    state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

    Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

    Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
    deaths yesterday.

    That was accidental, collateral damage. Sadly, that happens in war.

    I doubt it was her pager.




    But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to
    be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
    some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
    over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
    Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
    That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David >>promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
    They still meet under his flag.

    You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look
    it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

    I live in San Francisco and rarely thump bibles. And I confess to being
    3/4 German and 1/4 Irish.

    That would account for your bad temper when you've had a drink! :-D

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu Sep 19 21:01:53 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
    group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
    - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
    necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently
    hot.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Thu Sep 19 14:05:19 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:29:16 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 13:40:02 -0700, john larkin wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 22:01:24 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
    wrote:

    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on >>>>> anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly >>>>> state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

    Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

    Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of >>>deaths yesterday.

    That was accidental, collateral damage. Sadly, that happens in war.

    I doubt it was her pager.




    But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to >>>be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
    some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
    over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
    Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
    That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David >>>promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
    They still meet under his flag.

    You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look >>>it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

    I live in San Francisco and rarely thump bibles. And I confess to being
    3/4 German and 1/4 Irish.

    That would account for your bad temper when you've had a drink! :-D

    When we're in a really wild mood, Mo and I will split a beer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Thu Sep 19 14:07:33 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on >>>>> anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly >>>>> state-backed terrorism AFAICS.

    Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.

    Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
    deaths yesterday.

    But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to
    be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
    some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
    over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
    Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
    That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
    promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
    They still meet under his flag.

    You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look
    it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.

    Gerhard


    It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
    and humiliation for the perpetrators.

    Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
    organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
    terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know
    anything was amiss.

    Realistic explanation: They shipped in a bunch of them in a hurry, doled
    them out in a hurry to just about whomever wanted one, and popped
    whomever was unfortunate enough to get their hands on one within about
    two weeks.

    Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on board
    at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines' >explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll have
    to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't >happen going forward.

    It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
    worked on a plane.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to Wanderer on Thu Sep 19 21:06:08 2024
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:34:34, Wanderer wrote:

    How safe do you feel buying on Ebay and Amazon right now?

    Right now, yes. Going forward: no.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu Sep 19 23:38:18 2024
    On 9/19/24 17:30, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote in <a4eoejlqa3q0gols8jpedac890a9cg7ok2@4ax.com>:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." >>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>
    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
    pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
    individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
    expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
    explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
    to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
    secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
    to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
    all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses >>> making war industry...
    US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
    Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...

    Brain dead evil country.

    OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.

    It was the *US* that had youcrane blow up the Russian Northstream pipelines to the rest of Europe.
    Food> from the US? Nothing I eat.
    Why do you think your country has the largest deficit in the world.
    Becaue nobody wants to buy your shit, China is better and cheaper.
    WE have the real chip tech FYI, it scares the US so much they try anything to get us
    not exporting it to for example China.
    The d*mn F35 that our CVA controlled poly-ticsians bought tho rpelace the old F16s
    makes so much noise that there are now groups standing up againt it
    and other example for US crap, a ten year old with a stone can kill it.
    your Ali-Gator electret will detect it miles away, no radar needed to get a slingshot at it.


    And invite Germany back in to rule your country.

    Well, we are both in the EU and make decisions together with other countries. Anyasy I decided some time ago to stop with rapis.
    Posted about that and why here.
    As far as sjips go, raspies are made in the UK FYI.

    China and Korea has most stuff I need, teefee, monitors all Samsung Harddisks:Japan
    SDcards: Samsung
    Camaras: Japan and smartphone xiaomi from China
    Lotd of other Chinese stuff, from GPS receivers to Oleds, to LCD⇧s, LEDs, what not.
    Just received a detonation message on my Nokia (also made in Europe) but had removed the
    the 'plosives long ago.
    Was in the kitchen anyways when it happened, phone in the living room,.
    You say you are part German, can you even read or speak German?
    Without Von Braun you 'merricans would never have reached the moon.
    Without Russia neither ,'merricans were just trying to catch up, show off... AND on top of that after all the youwish genocide YOU support, makes me think if Hitler had a point.
    Was a program about 'Mein Kampf' here on German TV a few month ago, you can get it online it seems.

    It all depends now does it?
    YouAshAAAAAAAH's game is to create wars, use CIA to support rebellion parties, movement, now in Venezuela,
    tensions you create make utra right getting stronger and stronger.
    You never did win from Germany, it was Russia that did win
    as it did from Nappy,
    YouAshAAAAA was fighting Japanese and when it could not win it used genocide on Japanese citicens
    to make Japan surrender, an ather US war crime as was Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc Youcrane
    If you had any self-respect you would move to your German [square] roots At least *I* told the CIA to fuck of
    when they asked me.

    You know, Jan, if you want your opinion to carry any weight,
    you'd better drop the witticisms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Thu Sep 19 23:51:38 2024
    On 9/19/24 23:01, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin
    <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
    group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>> expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
    device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
    temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
    Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
    - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently hot.

    There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
    that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to jeroen@nospam.please on Thu Sep 19 15:00:05 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:38:18 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 9/19/24 17:30, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin
    <JL@gct.com> wrote in <a4eoejlqa3q0gols8jpedac890a9cg7ok2@4ax.com>:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." >>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>: >>>>
    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
    pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
    individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
    be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
    expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
    explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
    to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.

    I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for >>>>>> secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.

    Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
    Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.

    Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing

    But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.

    US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
    to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
    all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses >>>> making war industry...
    US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
    Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...

    Brain dead evil country.

    OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.

    It was the *US* that had youcrane blow up the Russian Northstream pipelines to the rest of Europe.
    Food> from the US? Nothing I eat.
    Why do you think your country has the largest deficit in the world.
    Becaue nobody wants to buy your shit, China is better and cheaper.
    WE have the real chip tech FYI, it scares the US so much they try anything to get us
    not exporting it to for example China.
    The d*mn F35 that our CVA controlled poly-ticsians bought tho rpelace the old F16s
    makes so much noise that there are now groups standing up againt it
    and other example for US crap, a ten year old with a stone can kill it.
    your Ali-Gator electret will detect it miles away, no radar needed to get a slingshot at it.


    And invite Germany back in to rule your country.

    Well, we are both in the EU and make decisions together with other countries.
    Anyasy I decided some time ago to stop with rapis.
    Posted about that and why here.
    As far as sjips go, raspies are made in the UK FYI.

    China and Korea has most stuff I need, teefee, monitors all Samsung
    Harddisks:Japan
    SDcards: Samsung
    Camaras: Japan and smartphone xiaomi from China
    Lotd of other Chinese stuff, from GPS receivers to Oleds, to LCD?s, LEDs, what not.
    Just received a detonation message on my Nokia (also made in Europe) but had removed the
    the 'plosives long ago.
    Was in the kitchen anyways when it happened, phone in the living room,.
    You say you are part German, can you even read or speak German?
    Without Von Braun you 'merricans would never have reached the moon.
    Without Russia neither ,'merricans were just trying to catch up, show off... >> AND on top of that after all the youwish genocide YOU support, makes me think if Hitler had a point.
    Was a program about 'Mein Kampf' here on German TV a few month ago, you can >> get it online it seems.

    It all depends now does it?
    YouAshAAAAAAAH's game is to create wars, use CIA to support rebellion parties, movement, now in Venezuela,
    tensions you create make utra right getting stronger and stronger.
    You never did win from Germany, it was Russia that did win
    as it did from Nappy,
    YouAshAAAAA was fighting Japanese and when it could not win it used genocide on Japanese citicens
    to make Japan surrender, an ather US war crime as was Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc Youcrane
    If you had any self-respect you would move to your German [square] roots At least *I* told the CIA to fuck of
    when they asked me.

    You know, Jan, if you want your opinion to carry any weight,
    you'd better drop the witticisms.

    Jeroen Belleman

    "If you save someone's life, they will hate you forever."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Doom on Fri Sep 20 04:42:29 2024
    On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 21:01:53 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote in <vci3g0$mr65$5@dont-email.me>:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin
    <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally >>>>booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be >>>>*designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
    temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
    Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
    - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't >normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently >hot.

    There was more about the chemistry / explosives used in that RT article I posted.
    But it looks now the moosrats or whatever they are called had a
    special made version of the pagers (and walking talkers) distributed
    to the victims.

    You can get good cheap portos via ebay from China..
    Looks like there was some agent involved pushing these hacked models.
    It is not new, many years ago there was something similar.

    I have a Baofeng (70 cm) porto too, ham radio set basically, also from ebay. Beeper I had, very long time ago....
    Radios is simple, can make one in a flash... Back to the fifties...

    Its weird, some program was mentioning moon landing by the YouAShAAAA
    and id did say: few will have been watching that 50 years ago...
    Yea, I was at the head control room relaying it to the people's teefees here... Am I _really_ that old?
    Then next thought was: maybe 50 years from now, just imagine the media crap attention when I am 140 years old...
    :-)
    Was it the food?
    OTOH you could be all alone on a little island with just noise on the radio living
    from seaweeds and crab, as the only surviver of world-war <enter your sequence number here>..

    Or decomposed and the electrons that once made up your body flying in the universe looking for an attractive place...
    All is connected...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Sep 20 15:15:34 2024
    On 20/09/2024 7:07 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    <snip>

    Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on board >> at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines'
    explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll have
    to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't
    happen going forward.

    It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
    worked on a plane.

    Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
    aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
    technology.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Sep 20 15:29:59 2024
    On 20/09/2024 8:00 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:38:18 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 9/19/24 17:30, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin >>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <a4eoejlqa3q0gols8jpedac890a9cg7ok2@4ax.com>:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>: >>>>>
    On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
    On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    <snip>

    "If you save someone's life, they will hate you forever."

    The Russians won WW2 for the allies, and the rest of the alliance has
    hated them for it ever since.

    The alliance as a whole fought a lot of battles to defeat the Germans,
    but the Russians fought more of them than anybody else, and lost more combatants in the process. Stalin was a murderous psychopath, and there
    were excellent reasons to hate him for it, but he didn't do as much
    damage to the Russian war effort as Hitler did to the German war effort,
    or at least not after the war was under way.

    John Larkin has an exaggerated idea idea of the US contribution to
    victory in WW2 - the atomic bomb was crucial in frightening Japan into surrendering, but for the rest the US was useful but rather less than
    decisive.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Fri Sep 20 15:45:23 2024
    On 20/09/2024 6:18 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 14:52:55 -0400, bitrex wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 1:34 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:

    The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to
    Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang.

    Rubbish. The Jewish migration into Israel started much earlier than
    that. One of my Jewish acquaintances (now dead) spent time in a kibutz
    in Palestine before WW2, though he spent most of WW2 in the UK.

    All these groups
    in the ME on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else.

    Iran is a much bigger pain in the arse than any of the rest.

    Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow
    themselves to pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have
    peace over there.

    An Iran-dominated middle east won't be peaceful.

    Incidentally Trump and Harris hardly discussed foreign policy at the
    debates at all, there is no novel thinking to be found there.

    Americans have never cared much about the rest of the world, except as
    tourist destinations.

    Outside of the context of Evangelicals and the aforementioned forever
    war the overwhelming majority of Americans simply don't give a fuck
    about foreign policy as an election issue, so it's a waste of time for
    either of them to even think much about it.

    The US devolved foreign policy to Israel a long, long time ago.

    It's more that the US Jewish lobby is remarkably influential - not so
    much because they are all that powerful as because they actually care
    what happens to Israel.

    And given
    as you say the average American isn't bothered, it's not something that'll merit much air-time in any debate. It'll be all about the Left accusing
    Trump of being callous and uncaring and the Right about tax rises under Harris.

    Too true. Of course Trump really is callous and uncaring - he's an
    egomaniac, and only cares about himself - and taxes will rise under
    Harris because Trump cut taxes when he was in power in a thoroughly irresponsible way, and that will have to be undone.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jrwalliker@gmail.com on Fri Sep 20 07:41:23 2024
    On a sunny day (Fri, 20 Sep 2024 08:37:14 +0100) it happened John R Walliker <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote in <vcj8na$1051k$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 20/09/2024 06:15, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 20/09/2024 7:07 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    <snip>

    Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on
    board
    at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines' >>>> explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll
    have
    to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't >>>> happen going forward.

    It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
    worked on a plane.

    Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
    aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
    technology.

    Not really. They have windows. The doors are not electrically connected
    to the fuselage all the way round so they act as slot antennas.
    Mobile phones work fine inside planes.

    Indeed!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Fri Sep 20 09:57:27 2024
    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally >>>booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be >>>*designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
    - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently hot.

    They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
    and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
    something more powerful.

    Other interesting information in the book "Winston Churchill's Toyshop"
    and that was the technology of 80 years ago.


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to Bill Sloman on Fri Sep 20 10:17:09 2024
    On 20/09/2024 06:15, Bill Sloman wrote:

    <snip>

    Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
    aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older technology.

    When I fly, I choose a window seat, hold my phone to the window and use
    the sat-nav app (Magic Earth). It sometimes takes a while to get a fix,
    but it always works. If I'm over a country where I've downloaded the
    maps, I get a lot of speed warnings.

    However, I doubt the cellphone network would work.

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Roland@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 20 12:36:57 2024
    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >individuals.

    It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
    of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of
    the explosions were the batteries.

    These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
    explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
    this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
    explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
    their way to make their products as safe as possible.

    There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos
    clearly show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
    explosive.

    More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
    are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.
    --
    RoRo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Crash Gordon on Fri Sep 20 12:42:19 2024
    On 2024-09-19 17:59, Crash Gordon wrote:
    On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.

    I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
    *how* this was accomplished.  So I'll answer my own question.

    Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
    detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature.  Then installed
    these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
    wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
    said it should be.

    Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
    up resulting in detonation of the PETN.  I wouldn't be surprised to find
    a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
    pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
    over the threshold.  Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
    heating when the battery is being charged.

    But it appears that they exploded simultaneously or nearly so. Hard to
    achieve that synchronicity by heating. I rather think they sent some
    type of code, maybe a string.

    Methinks that now the factories are a legitimate target for the
    "receiving side", unless they can convincingly prove that they are
    totally innocent.

    I wonder if the entire batch was deployed, whether there are intact
    pagers in storage that they can investigate.

    The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
    but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to John R Walliker on Fri Sep 20 16:47:40 2024
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 08:37:14 +0100, John R Walliker wrote:

    On 20/09/2024 06:15, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 20/09/2024 7:07 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex wrote:

    On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    <snip>

    Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on
    board at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the
    airlines'
    explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll
    have to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure
    it can't happen going forward.

    It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
    worked on a plane.

    Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
    aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
    technology.

    Not really. They have windows. The doors are not electrically connected
    to the fuselage all the way round so they act as slot antennas.
    Mobile phones work fine inside planes.

    John

    Indeed. Anyone can see that zero commercial aircraft are RF-tight. Only a simpleton would assume that because occupants are unharmed by lightning
    strikes it means no EM can leak in. Also bear in mind VHF/UHF comms are
    line of sight and planes are exposed to EM from anywhere on the ground
    they're visible from, even if it's only half a Watt - the typical output
    of a hand-held walkie-talkie.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to Jeroen Belleman on Fri Sep 20 16:59:39 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:51:38 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    On 9/19/24 23:01, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
    larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
    group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
    would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
    pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
    like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
    of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
    it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
    it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
    temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
    make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
    here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
    isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
    necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
    that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes
    from raising its temperature.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Fri Sep 20 16:57:47 2024
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
    larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
    group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
    would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
    would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
    pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
    like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
    of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
    it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
    it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
    temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
    make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
    here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
    isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
    necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
    and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
    something more powerful.

    Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
    could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
    specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot
    think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.


    Other interesting information in the book "Winston Churchill's Toyshop"
    and that was the technology of 80 years ago.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to Robert Roland on Fri Sep 20 17:05:24 2024
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:36:57 +0200, Robert Roland wrote:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>individuals.

    It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
    of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of the explosions were the batteries.

    These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
    explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
    this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
    explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
    their way to make their products as safe as possible.

    There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos clearly
    show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The
    explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
    explosive.

    More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
    are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.

    The bovine masses simply accept what they're told for the most part. They
    seem incapable of critical thinking. We all know here on this group at
    least that lithium battery explosions are accompanied by fireballs. They
    make great incendiaries no doubt, but as you say, the clips we've seen of pagers going off appear to be nothing like lithium would give rise to.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Fri Sep 20 17:10:45 2024
    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:51:38 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    On 9/19/24 23:01, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
    larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>> group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
    would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
    pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
    it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
    temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
    make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
    here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
    isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
    necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
    that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes
    from raising its temperature.


    Um…. This is an electronics design group. Is it really that hard to
    imagine how to make a temperature-triggered detonator?

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash Gordon@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Sep 20 12:19:23 2024
    On 9/19/2024 11:18 AM, john larkin wrote:
    It sounds easier to just add an explosive and a detonator.

    That's (apparently) what was done. But these were put in the battery,
    so that a supply-chain attack wouldn't involve complex modification of
    the devices in transit. Instead, just replace the batteries -- the
    device appears normal to visual exam, and functionality (other than
    battery life) is unchanged.

    Some reports said that the pagers beeped continuously for some time
    before detonating, which supports the "heating the battery" theory. A
    single page would only create a small amount of heat, which could
    dissipate over several minutes. But repeated activations would allow
    the heat to build up.

    The heat doesn't necessarily set off the warhead directly; rather it
    could trigger a thermal sensor to activate a small detonator cap to set
    off the main charge. There's a battery right there to power all this.

    It's also possible they found a zero-day in the firmware that allowed
    them to send a crafted message which accessed the BMS signal path, then
    sent a command to a custom BMS IC.


    easier

    Easier isn't always better in spycraft.

    --
    I'm part of the vast libertarian conspiracy to take over the world and
    leave everyone alone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Sep 20 11:07:07 2024
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:36:57 +0200, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>individuals.

    It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
    of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of
    the explosions were the batteries.

    These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
    explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
    this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
    explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
    their way to make their products as safe as possible.

    There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos
    clearly show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The >explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
    explosive.

    More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
    are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.

    And have Journalism degrees.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Fri Sep 20 11:05:56 2024
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:42:19 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-09-19 17:59, Crash Gordon wrote:
    On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.

    I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
    *how* this was accomplished. So I'll answer my own question.

    Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
    detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature. Then installed
    these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
    wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
    said it should be.

    Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
    up resulting in detonation of the PETN. I wouldn't be surprised to find
    a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
    pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
    over the threshold. Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
    heating when the battery is being charged.

    But it appears that they exploded simultaneously or nearly so. Hard to >achieve that synchronicity by heating. I rather think they sent some
    type of code, maybe a string.

    Methinks that now the factories are a legitimate target for the
    "receiving side", unless they can convincingly prove that they are
    totally innocent.

    I wonder if the entire batch was deployed, whether there are intact
    pagers in storage that they can investigate.

    The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
    but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.


    Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
    analyzed.

    It would be interesting to see what they did.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Fri Sep 20 19:45:24 2024
    On 9/20/24 18:59, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:51:38 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    On 9/19/24 23:01, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
    larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>> group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
    would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
    pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
    it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
    temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
    make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
    here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
    isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
    necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
    that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes built-in
    from raising its temperature.

    I don't think it worked like that anyway. If the perpetrators could
    subvert the battery packs, I don't see why they could not also subvert
    the battery management system to trigger a built-in detonator. The
    explosive charge was tiny, from what I gather, maybe even just a
    detonator and nothing more. Enough to blow a hole, but too little to
    shatter the whole pager.

    Off hand, I can think of two or three explosives that would do the
    job, but I'll refrain from naming them. Sorry.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Fri Sep 20 11:09:00 2024
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:05:24 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:36:57 +0200, Robert Roland wrote:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>individuals.

    It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
    of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of the
    explosions were the batteries.

    These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
    explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
    this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
    explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
    their way to make their products as safe as possible.

    There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos clearly
    show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The
    explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
    explosive.

    More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
    are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.

    The bovine masses simply accept what they're told for the most part. They >seem incapable of critical thinking.

    Different people have diferent talents. Maybe your nurse or your wife
    is a bovine mass.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to cd999666@notformail.com on Fri Sep 20 17:16:28 2024
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
    larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
    group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
    would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
    would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
    pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
    like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
    of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
    it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
    it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
    were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
    temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
    make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
    here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
    isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
    necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
    detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
    and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
    something more powerful.

    Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
    could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
    specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.

    PETN heated by a laser.

    .<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948>

    Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion

    Joe Gwinn


    Other interesting information in the book "Winston Churchill's Toyshop"
    and that was the technology of 80 years ago.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 21 00:04:39 2024
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom ><cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
    larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>> >>wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
    Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>> >>>group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
    would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>> >>>would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
    pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
    like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>> >>>of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
    it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
    it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>> >>were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>> > temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
    make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
    here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
    detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
    and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
    something more powerful.

    Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
    could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a >>specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.

    PETN heated by a laser.

    .<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948>

    Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion

    But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
    that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
    temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
    battery. No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
    does this. You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
    is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
    but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
    pursue the matter ad infinitum.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Fri Sep 20 23:54:55 2024
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:10:45 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:51:38 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    On 9/19/24 23:01, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
    larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
    pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>> it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
    battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
    make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
    here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
    that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes
    from raising its temperature.


    Um. This is an electronics design group. Is it really that hard to
    imagine how to make a temperature-triggered detonator?

    Extremely trivial, I'd have thought. But that wasn't my question.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Sep 21 00:07:39 2024
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 11:07:07 -0700, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:36:57 +0200, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>individuals.

    It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
    of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of
    the explosions were the batteries.

    These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can >>explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
    this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an >>explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of >>their way to make their products as safe as possible.

    There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos
    clearly show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The >>explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
    explosive.

    More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
    are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.

    And have Journalism degrees.

    And work for "newspapers" like the WaPo and NYT.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sat Sep 21 16:21:30 2024
    On 21/09/2024 9:07 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 11:07:07 -0700, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:36:57 +0200, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>
    wrote:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    <snip>

    There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos
    clearly show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The
    explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
    explosive.

    More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
    are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.

    And have Journalism degrees.

    Not necessarily. Journalist tend to have a talent for journalism which
    isn't necessarily nutured by by a university education.

    And work for "newspapers" like the WaPo and NYT.

    These are real newspapers, and publish real news, as opposed to the
    fatuous fantasies to which Cursitor Doom is addicted.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sat Sep 21 18:01:51 2024
    On 21/09/2024 9:04 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
    larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>>> pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>>> it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone >>>>>> battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
    make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used >>>>> here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
    detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature >>>> and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
    something more powerful.

    Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
    could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
    specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>> think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists. >>
    PETN heated by a laser.

    .<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948> >>
    Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion

    But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
    that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
    temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
    battery.

    Nothing I read in the main stream media suggested anything of the sort.
    The kind of right-wing nonsense peddlers that Cursiotr Doom is addicted
    to may well have confused batteries with explosives in them with lithium
    ion batteries which sometimes have failed catastropically, but that's
    simple ignorance, of the kind that Cursitor Doom exhibits at frequent intervals.

    No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
    does this.

    And nobody sane would post that kind of information in a public forum.

    You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
    is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
    but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
    pursue the matter ad infinitum.

    You aren't interested in "pursuing" the matter at all - you just want to
    post some more fatuous speculations.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Sep 21 10:21:11 2024
    On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
    analyzed.

    It would be interesting to see what they did.

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
    in steel.

    Would that work?

    I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
    include some GSM circuitry?

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Sat Sep 21 08:21:12 2024
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
    analyzed.

    It would be interesting to see what they did.

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
    in steel.

    Would that work?

    Detonators are usually a fine wire or nowadays a metallic thin film
    resistor that heats up very fast, in microseconds, and starts some
    primer material, which then detonates the main charge.

    I was talking to a guy at a flea market who designs nukes. He said
    that modern gadgets use an explosive that is very hard to trigger;
    ordinary detonators won't work. They use a tiny thing, a substrate
    with a thin-film resistor coated with some special primer stuff. That
    thing is embedded in the main explosive.

    You can see some similar detonators at the visitors center in Los
    Alamos.


    I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
    include some GSM circuitry?

    Just a pager message, probably.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Sep 21 17:55:02 2024
    On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
    analyzed.

    It would be interesting to see what they did.

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
    in steel.

    Would that work?

    Detonators are usually a fine wire or nowadays a metallic thin film
    resistor that heats up very fast, in microseconds, and starts some
    primer material, which then detonates the main charge.

    I was talking to a guy at a flea market who designs nukes. He said
    that modern gadgets use an explosive that is very hard to trigger;
    ordinary detonators won't work. They use a tiny thing, a substrate
    with a thin-film resistor coated with some special primer stuff. That
    thing is embedded in the main explosive.

    You can see some similar detonators at the visitors center in Los
    Alamos.


    I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
    include some GSM circuitry?

    Just a pager message, probably.

    Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Sep 21 11:03:39 2024
    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 14:07:33 -0700, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:

    (chomp)
    It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
    worked on a plane.

    Not all that special. Pagers made since about 1990 all included a
    "group call" feature, where all the pagers in a pre-programmed group
    activate simultaneously. It's normally used to broadcast
    announcements: <https://help.yeastar.com/en/p-series-appliance-edition/administrator-guide/set-up-a-one-way-paging-group.html>
    I'm old enough (76) to have been involved with pagers since they
    looked and weighed like a small brick and were full of germanium
    transistors and vibrating reed tone decoders.

    Pagers and cell phones have problems on airplanes. The older airplane
    have an aluminum outer skin, which acts as a partial shield. Current
    model airplanes are full of carbon fiber, which acts as an RF absorber
    and is actually more effective at blocking RF than a patchwork of
    sheet aluminum.

    However, that's not why pagers (and cell phones) have problems on
    airplanes. Pagers do not tolerate co-channel interference very well: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-channel_interference>
    At almost any altitude, the pager is hearing many pager transmitters
    and cell sites, many of which are using the same frequency or channel.
    The receiver becomes either overloaded or the data becomes garbled by
    the resultant interference. I have that problem in the hills where I
    live. While the view of Silicon Valley from the top of the local
    peaks is impressive, the pager and cellular performance is dismal or non-existent. I can be within maximum range and line of sight of the
    desired transmitter, but the pager doesn't respond and the cell phone
    claims it has "no signal" (which really means it has an excessively
    high SNR (signal to noise ratio). The only ways I can make such
    devices work at altitude is with a directional antenna or moving to a
    less impressive location. Basically, the paging (and cellular)
    systems were not designed to operate in the very crowded RF
    environment found in an airplane at altitude.

    I've been randomly watching various YouTube videos in a futile attempt
    to obtain accurate information on the technology used. Literally,
    every video was useless.

    For example, many experts are claiming that pagers are no longer used.
    It's not what it used to be before the 1990's and introduction of cell
    phones, but they certainly are quite common if you know where to look.
    For a time, I was selling pagers modified to close several relay
    contacts. They were used for everything between wireless rebooting a
    computer to turning on/off equipment. The local fire department uses
    both pagers and walkie-talkies. The pagers predominate because they
    are cheaper. Some of the voice pagers include storage for recording
    the last dispatch so it could be replayed.

    The Icom IC-V82 walkie-talky is a different story. The IC-V82 does
    not come stock with a paging (POCSAG or Flex) decoder. It could be
    used to provide a paging function with the addition of either the
    optional UT-108 DTMF decoder or the UT-118 DSTAR digital voice and
    decoder. In order to "group call" these radios, the handhelds would
    need to be part of a DSTAR radio repeater network. <https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1038044/Icom-Ic-V82.html#manual> <https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1038044/Icom-Ic-V82.html?page=12#manual> Note that this my guess(tm) as to how it was done with the IC-V82 and
    should not be considered authoritative.

    I could write a long rant on explosives and other "amazing facts" from
    online experts, but I don't want to write anything that might be
    construed as bomb making instructions. Sorry.



    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Sat Sep 21 19:24:08 2024
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
    analyzed.

    It would be interesting to see what they did.

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
    in steel.

    Would that work?

    Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
    near in fact.


    I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
    include some GSM circuitry?

    They might concievably have used CTCSS. The more recent versions would
    most certainly be able to do this.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sat Sep 21 20:51:47 2024
    On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    <snip>

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
    in steel.

    Would that work?

    Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
    near in fact.


    So what would happen?

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 21 12:48:37 2024
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 11:03:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 14:07:33 -0700, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:

    (chomp)
    It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
    worked on a plane.

    Not all that special. Pagers made since about 1990 all included a
    "group call" feature, where all the pagers in a pre-programmed group
    activate simultaneously. It's normally used to broadcast
    announcements: ><https://help.yeastar.com/en/p-series-appliance-edition/administrator-guide/set-up-a-one-way-paging-group.html>
    I'm old enough (76) to have been involved with pagers since they
    looked and weighed like a small brick and were full of germanium
    transistors and vibrating reed tone decoders.

    They still needed some way to fire the detonator, sort of a spare port
    pin on the uP or whatever is in the pager.




    Pagers and cell phones have problems on airplanes. The older airplane
    have an aluminum outer skin, which acts as a partial shield. Current
    model airplanes are full of carbon fiber, which acts as an RF absorber
    and is actually more effective at blocking RF than a patchwork of
    sheet aluminum.

    However, that's not why pagers (and cell phones) have problems on
    airplanes. Pagers do not tolerate co-channel interference very well: ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-channel_interference>
    At almost any altitude, the pager is hearing many pager transmitters
    and cell sites, many of which are using the same frequency or channel.
    The receiver becomes either overloaded or the data becomes garbled by
    the resultant interference. I have that problem in the hills where I
    live. While the view of Silicon Valley from the top of the local
    peaks is impressive, the pager and cellular performance is dismal or >non-existent. I can be within maximum range and line of sight of the
    desired transmitter, but the pager doesn't respond and the cell phone
    claims it has "no signal" (which really means it has an excessively
    high SNR (signal to noise ratio). The only ways I can make such
    devices work at altitude is with a directional antenna or moving to a
    less impressive location. Basically, the paging (and cellular)
    systems were not designed to operate in the very crowded RF
    environment found in an airplane at altitude.

    I've been randomly watching various YouTube videos in a futile attempt
    to obtain accurate information on the technology used. Literally,
    every video was useless.

    For example, many experts are claiming that pagers are no longer used.
    It's not what it used to be before the 1990's and introduction of cell >phones, but they certainly are quite common if you know where to look.
    For a time, I was selling pagers modified to close several relay
    contacts. They were used for everything between wireless rebooting a >computer to turning on/off equipment. The local fire department uses
    both pagers and walkie-talkies. The pagers predominate because they
    are cheaper. Some of the voice pagers include storage for recording
    the last dispatch so it could be replayed.

    A pager controller chip with relay driver outputs would be ideal as
    the booby trap.


    The Icom IC-V82 walkie-talky is a different story. The IC-V82 does
    not come stock with a paging (POCSAG or Flex) decoder. It could be
    used to provide a paging function with the addition of either the
    optional UT-108 DTMF decoder or the UT-118 DSTAR digital voice and
    decoder. In order to "group call" these radios, the handhelds would
    need to be part of a DSTAR radio repeater network. ><https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1038044/Icom-Ic-V82.html#manual> ><https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1038044/Icom-Ic-V82.html?page=12#manual> >Note that this my guess(tm) as to how it was done with the IC-V82 and
    should not be considered authoritative.

    I could write a long rant on explosives and other "amazing facts" from
    online experts, but I don't want to write anything that might be
    construed as bomb making instructions. Sorry.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Liebermann@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Sep 21 14:46:43 2024
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 12:48:37 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 11:03:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 14:07:33 -0700, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:

    (chomp)
    It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have >>>worked on a plane.

    Not all that special. Pagers made since about 1990 all included a
    "group call" feature, where all the pagers in a pre-programmed group >>activate simultaneously. It's normally used to broadcast
    announcements: >><https://help.yeastar.com/en/p-series-appliance-edition/administrator-guide/set-up-a-one-way-paging-group.html>
    I'm old enough (76) to have been involved with pagers since they
    looked and weighed like a small brick and were full of germanium >>transistors and vibrating reed tone decoders.

    They still needed some way to fire the detonator, sort of a spare port
    pin on the uP or whatever is in the pager.

    Sure, but that's fairly easy. The model number of the pager seems to
    have been made by:
    Gold Apollo Co Ltd
    Model number:
    AL-A25S

    I couldn't find anything on this AL-A25S model, but did find some
    useful info on the AL-A26, which seems to be similar. Actually, I
    think I may have one of these pagers: <https://wiki.recessim.com/view/Apollo_AL-A26_(Pager)>
    "The A26 model line is hand-programmable, not requiring any software
    to setup basic features (including CAPCODE/RIC, frequency, and
    baudrate)..."

    Further down the data sheet:
    Alerting:
    4 Beep alerts w/ LED flash
    10 Melodic alerts w/ LED flash
    Vibration w/ LED flash
    LED flash only
    An external logic circuit and relay driver could trigger on any of
    these outputs. For example, setting the group call to generate one of
    the 4 beep alerts, and then decoding the beeps with a relay driver
    should work.

    As I vaguely recall, there is also an uncommitted test point on the
    PCB that can be used to drive a transistor that runs a bell or buzzer.
    This is a common configuration for fire departments, where the buzzer
    or bell is used to wake up the fireman at night.

    (chomp again)

    --
    Jeff Liebermann jeffl@cruzio.com
    PO Box 272 http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
    Ben Lomond CA 95005-0272
    Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Sat Sep 21 23:30:45 2024
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    <snip>

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
    in steel.

    Would that work?

    Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
    near in fact.


    So what would happen?

    Nothing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Sep 22 09:04:29 2024
    Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    <snip>

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>> in steel.

    Would that work?

    Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
    near in fact.


    So what would happen?

    Nothing.

    Not even a little 'phut!" ?


    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Sep 22 10:38:02 2024
    On 21/09/2024 23:30, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    <snip>

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>>> in steel.

    Would that work?

    Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
    near in fact.


    So what would happen?

    Nothing.

    So, gunpowder igniting in a steel casing would do nothing. Twat.

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Sun Sep 22 13:35:43 2024
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 10:38:02 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 23:30, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    <snip>

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>>>> in steel.

    Would that work?

    Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
    near in fact.


    So what would happen?

    Nothing.

    So, gunpowder igniting in a steel casing would do nothing. Twat.

    Excuse me? You said you'd "drill a hole in some high explosive" and
    use your gunpowder and filament idea to set it off. I will NOT work.
    You will never set-off a practical high explosive with gunpowder. It
    burns far too slowly. You have to generatate a short, sharp shock
    using something like mercury fulminate which has the necessary
    brisance.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Sep 22 13:48:36 2024
    On 22/09/2024 13:35, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 10:38:02 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 23:30, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    <snip>

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>>>>> in steel.

    Would that work?

    Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
    near in fact.


    So what would happen?

    Nothing.

    So, gunpowder igniting in a steel casing would do nothing. Twat.

    Excuse me? You said you'd "drill a hole in some high explosive" and
    use your gunpowder and filament idea to set it off. I will NOT work.
    You will never set-off a practical high explosive with gunpowder. It
    burns far too slowly. You have to generatate a short, sharp shock
    using something like mercury fulminate which has the necessary
    brisance.

    It's in a steel housing, as stated. I'm fully prepared to accept that
    the high temperature and pressure generated by the gunpowder may not set
    off the high explosive.

    I'm not prepared to accept that it will do 'nothing' as you said. I
    hoped against hope that you might have some special knowledge in this
    area. I should have known better.

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Clive Arthur on Sun Sep 22 15:04:39 2024
    On 2024-09-21 18:55, Clive Arthur wrote:
    On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    ...

    I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off.  Would they have to
    include some GSM circuitry?

    Just a pager message, probably.

    Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?

    There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need repeaters, even a repeater network.

    That way a policeman can talk to any other policeman or fireworker or
    ambulance driver in the city, or the entire region. In privacy if
    desired. And without fees.

    I don't know the name of the system.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 22 09:47:55 2024
    In article <h7iuejtoht3du4gpc2kp2tl6tliukg6qsj@4ax.com>,
    cd@notformail.com says...

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>> in steel.

    Would that work?

    Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
    near in fact.


    So what would happen?

    Nothing.



    Modern gun powder is interisting in the way it 'goes off'. If put in
    open air it will burn slow. If you put a round in the fire or frying
    pan on the stove and heat it up it will sort of explode but with little
    force. The bullet part will hardly move and the brass case would not
    penetrate a cardboard box that you put over it. Now take the same round
    , say a handgun round and put it in a gun and stop up the barrel and it
    will explode and disable the gun and if the gun is held in the hand it
    will mostlikely damage your hand. The more pressure it is under, the
    faster it burns. It never explodes but just burns faster and the
    generated gas is what does the damage.


    The old time black powder is different, it burns at the same rate all
    the time. Put a teaspoon full and put a match to it and it all seems to
    go off at the same time.It is what is called a low explosive. There are
    high explosives that only a small amout will cause lots of damage.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Sun Sep 22 15:17:07 2024
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-09-21 18:55, Clive Arthur wrote:
    On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    ...

    I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
    include some GSM circuitry?

    Just a pager message, probably.

    Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?

    There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need >repeaters, even a repeater network.

    That way a policeman can talk to any other policeman or fireworker or >ambulance driver in the city, or the entire region. In privacy if
    desired. And without fees.

    I don't know the name of the system.

    TETRA.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Sun Sep 22 15:21:48 2024
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 13:48:36 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 22/09/2024 13:35, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 10:38:02 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 23:30, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    <snip>

    I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
    suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
    gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>>>>>> in steel.

    Would that work?

    Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere >>>>>> near in fact.


    So what would happen?

    Nothing.

    So, gunpowder igniting in a steel casing would do nothing. Twat.

    Excuse me? You said you'd "drill a hole in some high explosive" and
    use your gunpowder and filament idea to set it off. I will NOT work.
    You will never set-off a practical high explosive with gunpowder. It
    burns far too slowly. You have to generatate a short, sharp shock
    using something like mercury fulminate which has the necessary
    brisance.

    It's in a steel housing, as stated. I'm fully prepared to accept that
    the high temperature and pressure generated by the gunpowder may not set
    off the high explosive.

    I'm not prepared to accept that it will do 'nothing' as you said. I
    hoped against hope that you might have some special knowledge in this
    area. I should have known better.

    When I said it would do nothing I meant your idea of using gunpowder
    to set off a high explosive. It will NOT work. You might set the
    gunpowder off, but that's about all.
    Now I have no idea why you're asking about this but I'm getting
    uncomfortable with your line of questioning. For all we know you might
    be planning some kind of terror attack so I have nothing further to
    say on this subject. I will not be baited into divulging such info in
    a public forum.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Sep 22 17:05:56 2024
    On 22/09/2024 15:21, Cursitor Doom wrote:

    <snip>

    Now I have no idea why you're asking about this but I'm getting
    uncomfortable with your line of questioning. For all we know you might
    be planning some kind of terror attack so I have nothing further to
    say on this subject. I will not be baited into divulging such info in
    a public forum.

    :-)

    O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion:
    What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
    An' ev'n devotion!

    (Robert Burns)

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Sun Sep 22 17:35:25 2024
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 17:05:56 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 22/09/2024 15:21, Cursitor Doom wrote:

    <snip>

    Now I have no idea why you're asking about this but I'm getting
    uncomfortable with your line of questioning. For all we know you might
    be planning some kind of terror attack so I have nothing further to
    say on this subject. I will not be baited into divulging such info in
    a public forum.

    :-)

    O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion:
    What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
    An' ev'n devotion!

    (Robert Burns)

    The kind of questions you've been posing are highly suggestive of
    someone who has obtained access to high explosives but not the
    detonators. Detonators - usually but not always blasting caps - have
    to be stored separately from the explosives for safety reasons and
    invariably under lock and key.
    Two nut-cases have already tried to whack Trump. We don't need any
    more Left-wing lunatics scheming up ideas to de-stabilize an already
    fractious electorate.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Robert Roland@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Sun Sep 22 19:11:54 2024
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need >repeaters, even a repeater network.


    If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
    each other without any connection to a base station.

    This makes them useful also in areas whitout coverage, or when the
    base station infrastructure is inoperative.
    --
    RoRo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sun Sep 22 18:38:27 2024
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 19:11:54 +0200, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need >>repeaters, even a repeater network.


    If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
    each other without any connection to a base station.

    This makes them useful also in areas whitout coverage, or when the
    base station infrastructure is inoperative.

    They're also encrypted. And it's a very tough algorithm which is
    reckoned to be unbreakable. Hopefully not in the same way as the
    Titannic was "unsinkable" if you will. Overall, it's a highly
    effective and flexible system ideally suited for police and security
    service use.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Sep 22 22:27:55 2024
    On 2024-09-22 19:38, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 19:11:54 +0200, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>
    wrote:

    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need
    repeaters, even a repeater network.


    If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
    each other without any connection to a base station.

    This makes them useful also in areas whitout coverage, or when the
    base station infrastructure is inoperative.

    They're also encrypted. And it's a very tough algorithm which is
    reckoned to be unbreakable. Hopefully not in the same way as the
    Titannic was "unsinkable" if you will. Overall, it's a highly
    effective and flexible system ideally suited for police and security
    service use.

    Right.

    It can also be used by users like transport fleets.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Mon Sep 23 13:07:19 2024
    On 23/09/2024 2:35 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 17:05:56 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 22/09/2024 15:21, Cursitor Doom wrote:

    <snip>

    Now I have no idea why you're asking about this but I'm getting
    uncomfortable with your line of questioning. For all we know you might
    be planning some kind of terror attack so I have nothing further to
    say on this subject. I will not be baited into divulging such info in
    a public forum.

    :-)

    O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
    To see oursels as ithers see us!
    It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
    An' foolish notion:
    What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
    An' ev'n devotion!

    (Robert Burns)

    The kind of questions you've been posing are highly suggestive of
    someone who has obtained access to high explosives but not the
    detonators. Detonators - usually but not always blasting caps - have
    to be stored separately from the explosives for safety reasons and
    invariably under lock and key.
    Two nut-cases have already tried to whack Trump. We don't need any
    more Left-wing lunatics scheming up ideas to de-stabilize an already fractious electorate.

    There was nothing ostentatiously left-wing about the two lunatics who
    tried to whack Trump. He was most likely the target because he's had a
    lot more air time than any of the other potential targets.

    Anybody who has ever seen "The Apprentice" - even briefly - would want
    to whack Trump.

    The electorate is fractious mainly because Trump lies a lot. That make
    him attractive to you because you like your political entertainment
    thoroughly implausible, but many of the voting population take him
    seriously.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Mon Sep 23 07:29:58 2024
    On a sunny day (Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <78h5skxljq.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

    On 2024-09-21 18:55, Clive Arthur wrote:
    On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:

    <snip>

    ...

    I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off.  Would they have to
    include some GSM circuitry?

    Just a pager message, probably.

    Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?

    There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need >repeaters, even a repeater network.

    That way a policeman can talk to any other policeman or fireworker or >ambulance driver in the city, or the entire region. In privacy if
    desired. And without fees.

    I don't know the name of the system.

    Being a radio-ham, I have a Baofeng 2 way radio.
    At 70 cm wavelength there are several country wide networks.
    Some need a special code to transmit to it.
    Baofengs are cheap on ebay.
    https://www.ebay.com/b/Baofeng/bn_21820271
    Not sure which ones have the explosives.. ;-)
    Mine is still working after many years...
    https://www.rtlsdr.nl/uhf-repeaters-430-mhz/
    you need a license to transmit..
    Is also used by truckers like 27 MHz was long ago here...
    The networks can be used as emergency service if needed.
    https://www.buytwowayradios.com/blog/2016/08/how_to_manually_program_the_baofeng_uv-5r_from_the_keypad.html

    There is a lot more to it...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dave Platt@21:1/5 to cd@notformail.com on Mon Sep 23 10:40:36 2024
    In article <3al0fjt8v2v2d9v4gc12uc69ple2rl3jg2@4ax.com>,
    Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
    If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
    each other without any connection to a base station.

    They're also encrypted. And it's a very tough algorithm which is
    reckoned to be unbreakable.

    That was the claim.

    As of 2023, there are significant reasons to doubt this claim. Several fundamental flaws in the TETRA encryption were identified (and some
    had been noticed even as early as the 2006 Wikileaks document dump).

    See, for example,

    https://www.computerweekly.com/news/366545593/Tetra-radio-users-comms-may-have-been-exposed-for-years

    In short, the TEA1 encryption algorithm is pretty badly horked. Its
    effective key strength is only 32 bits :-( and breaking a session key
    can be done trivially on an ordinary laptop in a minute or so.

    There are debates as to whether this was the result of a deliberate back-dooring of the encryption algorithm (to e.g. allow intelligence organizations to decrypt communications), or whether it's the result
    of a common problem: "behind closed doors" design of cryptographic architectures which turn out to be flawed in ways that a public
    review by knowledgeable cryptographers would have avoided.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash Gordon@21:1/5 to Bill Sloman on Mon Sep 23 13:21:34 2024
    On 9/22/2024 10:07 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    Anybody who has ever seen "The Apprentice" - even briefly - would want
    to whack Trump.

    I liked "The Apprentice", but lost interest when it became "Celebrity Apprentice" -- the contestants no longer had any real skin in the game.
    I was pretty sure that the Trump we saw in that show was a character,
    and we weren't supposed to like him.

    Fox ran a hilarious show called "My Big Fat Obnoxious Boss" that was the
    same premise as "The Apprentice" except that everything was fake and
    scripted -- but the contestants didn't know that. I believe the first
    task was selling hot soup out of a pushcart in Chicago in August; the
    losing team had to spend the night in sleeping bags on a vacant lot in a sketchy neighborhood. Per standard Fox practice with good shows, it was cancelled during its first season.

    --
    I'm part of the vast libertarian conspiracy to take over the world and
    leave everyone alone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Mon Sep 23 18:57:04 2024
    In article <vcsbje$2q381$1@dont-email.me>, uucp@crashelex.com says...

    On 9/22/2024 10:07 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
    Anybody who has ever seen "The Apprentice" - even briefly - would want
    to whack Trump.

    I liked "The Apprentice", but lost interest when it became "Celebrity Apprentice" -- the contestants no longer had any real skin in the game.
    I was pretty sure that the Trump we saw in that show was a character,
    and we weren't supposed to like him.



    I quuit on the Celeberty version. I knew the woman that I forget her
    name would win from the start. I do not keep up with names of people
    very well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Wed Oct 2 20:56:01 2024
    On 21/09/2024 00:04, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
    larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
    *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>>> pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>>> it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone >>>>>> battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
    make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?

    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used >>>>> here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
    detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature >>>> and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
    something more powerful.

    Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
    could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
    specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>> think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.

    Tetrazene meets your requirements at below the boiling point of water.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrazene_explosive

    That would be well within the range that a phone battery might reach if
    it was deliberately shorted out. I doubt if that was how they did it
    though. Nothing like enough black smoke in the videos.

    A military grade high explosive seems far more likely for a state actor.
    Weight really matters in a portable device.

    PETN heated by a laser.

    .<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948> >>
    Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion

    But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
    that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
    temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
    battery. No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
    does this. You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
    is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
    but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
    pursue the matter ad infinitum.

    Given the low internal resistance of a Lithium battery there is no
    problem in using a detonator that is in essence a nichrome filament
    coated in the right primer and RDX or HMX as the main charge. This was
    almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
    cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection by Hamas operatives.

    There are plenty of explosives that will detonate at red heat.

    I wonder if a tiny fraction of them did not detonate when instructed to
    do so or if there are any of them still out in the wild and not in Hamas
    hands. They will be interesting if a bit risky to dismantle.

    --
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to '''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk on Wed Oct 2 14:06:39 2024
    On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 20:56:01 +0100, Martin Brown
    <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 00:04, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john >>>>>>> larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be >>>>>>>>> *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>>>> pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>>>> it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone >>>>>>> battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you >>>>>>> make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea? >>>>>>
    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used >>>>>> here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are >>>>> detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature >>>>> and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
    something more powerful.

    Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
    could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
    specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>>> think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.

    Tetrazene meets your requirements at below the boiling point of water.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrazene_explosive

    That would be well within the range that a phone battery might reach if
    it was deliberately shorted out. I doubt if that was how they did it
    though. Nothing like enough black smoke in the videos.

    A military grade high explosive seems far more likely for a state actor. >Weight really matters in a portable device.

    PETN heated by a laser.

    .<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948> >>>
    Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion

    But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
    that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
    temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
    battery. No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
    does this. You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
    is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
    but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
    pursue the matter ad infinitum.

    Given the low internal resistance of a Lithium battery there is no
    problem in using a detonator that is in essence a nichrome filament
    coated in the right primer and RDX or HMX as the main charge. This was
    almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
    cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection by Hamas operatives.

    There are plenty of explosives that will detonate at red heat.

    I wonder if a tiny fraction of them did not detonate when instructed to
    do so or if there are any of them still out in the wild and not in Hamas >hands. They will be interesting if a bit risky to dismantle.

    A great opportunity to make more martyrs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Oct 2 19:51:10 2024
    On Thu, 3 Oct 2024 04:15:41 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
    wrote:

    Am 02.10.24 um 23:06 schrieb john larkin:

    A great opportunity to make more martyrs.

    like the 8 yo girl and the other kid that were
    among the first dozen of deaths.

    Gerhard


    A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
    terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli
    lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
    calculations.

    The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
    buster bombs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerhard Hoffmann@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 3 04:15:41 2024
    Am 02.10.24 um 23:06 schrieb john larkin:

    A great opportunity to make more martyrs.

    like the 8 yo girl and the other kid that were
    among the first dozen of deaths.

    Gerhard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Jones@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Thu Oct 3 15:31:47 2024
    On 3/10/2024 5:56 am, Martin Brown wrote:
    This was
    almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
    cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection...

    Apart from x-ray examination, it would also be sensible to measure the electrical capacity of the battery and its weight, for any suspect
    device. As far as I know, there isn't another rechargeable battery
    chemistry with vastly higher Wh/kg than commercial LiPo cells, so it
    would be difficult to make a fake battery with the correct capacity and
    weight, if it also contained a significant mass of other things.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Chris Jones on Thu Oct 3 10:05:43 2024
    On 03/10/2024 06:31, Chris Jones wrote:
    On 3/10/2024 5:56 am, Martin Brown wrote:
    This was
    almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
    cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection...

    Apart from x-ray examination, it would also be sensible to measure the electrical capacity of the battery and its weight, for any suspect
    device. As far as I know, there isn't another rechargeable battery
    chemistry with vastly higher Wh/kg than commercial LiPo cells, so it
    would be difficult to make a fake battery with the correct capacity and weight, if it also contained a significant mass of other things.

    Capacity would probably not be quite as high as you might hope for a new battery but if ~10% of its mass was HMX that would probably be enough.

    I suspect that in future terrorist groups will attempt to detonate any
    such handheld devices that they buy in. This was a one time pony trick.

    My guess is that it looked OK on dentists X-ray and that terrorists
    would not have access to multiband X-ray or terahertz imaging which
    could determine the unexpectedly high nitrogen content of an explosive.

    It is in essence a variant on the bottles of liquid explosive and fake
    toner cartridges that terrorists have tried to use against airlines.

    And the reason why we still can't take more than 100ml of anything on a
    plane. Oddly my local airport is fully equipped with the right gear at
    great expense but the rules were relaxed only for a few weeks and then re-imposed. I have no idea why that happened it cost a hell of a lot to
    do and now the regional airports get no benefit from having done it!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clmm97x3yvmo

    I suspect it was the laggard major UK hub airports lobbying (they have
    been very slow to adopt it) rather than any good scientific reason.

    --
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Thu Oct 3 11:58:17 2024
    On 10/3/24 11:05, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 03/10/2024 06:31, Chris Jones wrote:
    On 3/10/2024 5:56 am, Martin Brown wrote:
    This was
    almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
    cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection...

    Apart from x-ray examination, it would also be sensible to measure the
    electrical capacity of the battery and its weight, for any suspect
    device. As far as I know, there isn't another rechargeable battery
    chemistry with vastly higher Wh/kg than commercial LiPo cells, so it
    would be difficult to make a fake battery with the correct capacity
    and weight, if it also contained a significant mass of other things.

    Capacity would probably not be quite as high as you might hope for a new battery but if ~10% of its mass was HMX that would probably be enough.

    I suspect that in future terrorist groups will attempt to detonate any
    such handheld devices that they buy in. This was a one time pony trick.

    My guess is that it looked OK on dentists X-ray and that terrorists
    would not have access to multiband X-ray or terahertz imaging which
    could determine the unexpectedly high nitrogen content of an explosive.

    It is in essence a variant on the bottles of liquid explosive and fake
    toner cartridges that terrorists have tried to use against airlines.

    And the reason why we still can't take more than 100ml of anything on a plane. Oddly my local airport is fully equipped with the right gear at
    great expense but the rules were relaxed only for a few weeks and then re-imposed. I have no idea why that happened it cost a hell of a lot to
    do and now the regional airports get no benefit from having done it!

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clmm97x3yvmo

    I suspect it was the laggard major UK hub airports lobbying (they have
    been very slow to adopt it) rather than any good scientific reason.


    Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagers
    can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to '''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk on Thu Oct 3 10:23:45 2024
    On Wed, 2 Oct 2024 20:56:01 +0100, Martin Brown
    <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/09/2024 00:04, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
    <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:

    Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john >>>>>>> larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
    <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:

    Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
    booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.

    This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>>>> would be expected.

    Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be >>>>>>>>> *designed*.
    Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>>>> pagers
    had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>>>> it.

    It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.

    I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.

    They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone >>>>>>> battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
    So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you >>>>>>> make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea? >>>>>>
    Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used >>>>>> here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
    sufficiently hot.

    They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are >>>>> detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature >>>>> and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
    something more powerful.

    Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
    could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
    specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>>> think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.

    Tetrazene meets your requirements at below the boiling point of water.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrazene_explosive

    That would be well within the range that a phone battery might reach if
    it was deliberately shorted out. I doubt if that was how they did it
    though. Nothing like enough black smoke in the videos.

    A military grade high explosive seems far more likely for a state actor. >Weight really matters in a portable device.

    PETN heated by a laser.

    .<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948> >>>
    Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion

    But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
    that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
    temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
    battery. No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
    does this. You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
    is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
    but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
    pursue the matter ad infinitum.

    Given the low internal resistance of a Lithium battery there is no
    problem in using a detonator that is in essence a nichrome filament
    coated in the right primer and RDX or HMX as the main charge. This was
    almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
    cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection by Hamas operatives.

    There are plenty of explosives that will detonate at red heat.

    I wonder if a tiny fraction of them did not detonate when instructed to
    do so or if there are any of them still out in the wild and not in Hamas >hands. They will be interesting if a bit risky to dismantle.

    Connect a 100 ohm resistor across the battery and drain it before
    attempting disassembly?

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 3 10:33:51 2024
    In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
    says...

    A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
    terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli
    lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
    calculations.

    The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
    buster bombs.




    I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
    those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
    do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.

    The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They
    should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
    giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
    and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Thu Oct 3 21:33:54 2024
    On 2024-10-03 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 03/10/2024 10:58, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagers
    can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries.

    TATP being the most notable exception if you don't care about its nasty tendency to explode even when you don't want it to. Not long after it
    was first in the news Amazon "helpfully" suggested to me after buying 40
    vols H2O2 that "people who bought this also bought acetone" !?

    That's why I open Amazon with a different profile, so that they can not
    track what I browse.

    ...

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Jeroen Belleman on Thu Oct 3 20:26:32 2024
    On 03/10/2024 10:58, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagers
    can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries.

    TATP being the most notable exception if you don't care about its nasty tendency to explode even when you don't want it to. Not long after it
    was first in the news Amazon "helpfully" suggested to me after buying 40
    vols H2O2 that "people who bought this also bought acetone" !?

    That stuff is really nasty and unforgiving.

    Azides and azo-bond based explosives are also high in nitrogen too.

    Most of the other esoteric non-nitrogen based explosives are way beyond
    mere mortals to synthesise (and somewhat unforgiving even for experts).

    There is a surprising amount of detail in the open literature these days
    if you know where to look.

    --
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Fri Oct 4 06:56:38 2024
    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 21:33:54 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <2683tkxd7t.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

    On 2024-10-03 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 03/10/2024 10:58, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagers
    can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries.

    TATP being the most notable exception if you don't care about its nasty
    tendency to explode even when you don't want it to. Not long after it
    was first in the news Amazon "helpfully" suggested to me after buying 40
    vols H2O2 that "people who bought this also bought acetone" !?

    That's why I open Amazon with a different profile, so that they can not
    track what I browse.

    Are not nukes from China cheaper on ebay?
    I had no problem getting the uranium and radium etc etc..
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/PMT_with_radium_in_bag_img_2482.jpg from:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to rmowery42@charter.net on Fri Oct 4 06:50:25 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in <MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:

    In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
    says...

    A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
    terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli
    lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
    calculations.

    The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
    buster bombs.




    I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
    those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
    do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.

    The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They
    should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
    giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
    and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.

    There is only one terrorist
    It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!
    That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.
    even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.

    I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.
    Most of the world is uniting now against that US
    A trump win may help delay the armageddon but then he wants to attack Iran it seems.
    US is a dead joke anyways, millions without power now due to some storm and flooding
    HOW LONG did it have to prepare for that??? Not gives no shit for its own people.
    All that weapon industry man power could have build a nice infrastructure.
    Now California earthquakes are increasing..
    Not even a combined nuclear attack by the rest of the world needed to obliterate that
    not so united S (S for shit ;-)?
    But keep asking
    Darwin applies
    No empire lasted forever.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sat Oct 5 00:09:42 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On 4/10/2024 4:50 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in <MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:

    In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
    says...

    A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
    terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli
    lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
    calculations.

    The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
    buster bombs.




    I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to
    firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the
    military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
    those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
    do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.

    The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They
    should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
    giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
    and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.

    There is only one terrorist
    It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!

    That's the sort of fatuous conspiracy theory that only Cursitor Doom
    would take seriously.

    That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.

    Hamas massacred 1200 people at a festival. Netanyahu would have found
    that hard to organise that as a sales stunt. The Russian invasion of the Ukraine would have been even harder for Zelensky to organise.

    even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.

    That's the National Rifle Association - essentially the US hand-gun manufacturing industry - but they essentially only sell inside the US.

    I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.

    Sadly, the gun violence in the US isn't at a level where it will deplete
    enough of the relevant part of the gene pool to make a difference.

    Most of the world is uniting now against that US.

    Not that anybody sane has noticed.

    A trump win may help delay the armageddon but then he wants to attack Iran it seems.

    Trump likes Putin and Kim Jong Un. Neither are positive influences.
    Trump's influence might keep them in power longer, but that wouldn't
    help peace or prosperity.

    US is a dead joke anyways, millions without power now due to some storm and flooding
    HOW LONG did it have to prepare for that??? Not gives no shit for its own people.
    All that weapon industry man power could have build a nice infrastructure.

    It did, but global warming knocked quite a lot of it down.

    Now California earthquakes are increasing..

    Not enough to worry about.

    Not even a combined nuclear attack by the rest of the world needed to obliterate that
    not so united S (S for shit ;-)?
    But keep asking
    Darwin applies.

    Not here.

    No empire lasted forever.

    So far. The US isn't actually an empire, and while their political
    arrangements are crude and old-fashioned, they aren't as crude and old-fashioned as those in force in the historical empires that have
    failed, and they do have mechanisms that would let them modernise them.
    And more modern political arrangements still tolerate creeps like Geert Wilders. At least he didn't get to be prime minister.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 4 07:58:21 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 06:50:25 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery ><rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in ><MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:

    In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
    says...

    A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
    terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli
    lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
    calculations.

    The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
    buster bombs.




    I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >>firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >>military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
    those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
    do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.

    The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They >>should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
    giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
    and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.

    There is only one terrorist

    Yes. Iran.

    It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!
    That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.
    even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.

    That makes news but is rare. Other countries have lunatics using
    knives.

    The real killer here is Chinese fentanyl.


    I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.
    Most of the world is uniting now against that US

    Prowl the world with Street View. Most places now look like a suburb
    of Dallas.

    And the rim of the USA is a network of people-diodes all pointing in.

    Any you speak English fairly well.

    I was shopping for Japanese gifts in Ngoya. Everything was western.
    All the baseball caps were lettered in English, most from US teams.
    The clothes were all Levis and tee shirts. I did find one tiny part of
    one store that sold Japanese stuff, staffed by one very lonely old
    lady.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 4 08:02:32 2024
    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 06:56:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 21:33:54 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." ><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <2683tkxd7t.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

    On 2024-10-03 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 03/10/2024 10:58, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagers
    can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries. >>>
    TATP being the most notable exception if you don't care about its nasty
    tendency to explode even when you don't want it to. Not long after it
    was first in the news Amazon "helpfully" suggested to me after buying 40 >>> vols H2O2 that "people who bought this also bought acetone" !?

    That's why I open Amazon with a different profile, so that they can not >>track what I browse.

    Are not nukes from China cheaper on ebay?
    I had no problem getting the uranium and radium etc etc..
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/PMT_with_radium_in_bag_img_2482.jpg
    from:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/

    Tritium betalights are cool, but technically illegal in the USA. I buy
    them on ebay, shipped from England.

    There are still some thorium lamp mantles around for sale.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to bill.sloman@ieee.org on Fri Oct 4 15:25:58 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On a sunny day (Sat, 5 Oct 2024 00:09:42 +1000) it happened Bill Slowbot wrote <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <vdosvh$85pg$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 4/10/2024 4:50 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery
    <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
    <MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:

    In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
    says...

    A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
    terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli >>>> lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
    calculations.

    The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
    buster bombs.




    I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >>> firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >>> military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
    those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
    do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.

    The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They
    should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
    giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
    and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.

    There is only one terrorist
    It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!

    That's the sort of fatuous conspiracy theory that only Cursitor Doom
    would take seriously.


    You have been brain-washed / code been re-written / to the point where you no longer see what's happening.


    That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.

    Hamas massacred 1200 people at a festival. Netanyahu would have found
    that hard to organise that as a sales stunt. The Russian invasion of the

    Years ago the land was taken by force from the Palestinians and others who lived there.
    Like the YouAsh did with the Native Americans, now living in reservations
    where they then were exposed to nuclear testing for example.
    youws in is-a-hell have been pestering and killing and deporting Palestinians for decennia,
    ever more provoking them by making new illegal settlements
    cutting of sea traffic to Palestine, basically suppressing them and abusing them.
    People revolt if you do that, Palestinians never give up.


    Ukraine would have been even harder for Zelensky to organise.

    YouAss SeeEyeAah has as mission stirring up unrest all over the world
    also so their YouAsh minitary industrial tax payer sucking crap products can be sold.



    even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.

    That's the National Rifle Association - essentially the US hand-gun >manufacturing industry - but they essentially only sell inside the US.

    Not really, in those Carribian islands the rebels are, with help from CIA, using US made weapons.


    I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.

    Sadly, the gun violence in the US isn't at a level where it will deplete >enough of the relevant part of the gene pool to make a difference.

    It is a side effect, if they can sell to their own people they will,
    no matter if it kills them.


    Most of the world is uniting now against that US.

    Not that anybody sane has noticed.

    Well if you only see the teefee down under there, maybe you should buy a new set and a satellite dish.
    The media here are censored in a big way.
    Assagne like stuff happens when you do real journalism.




    A trump win may help delay the armageddon but then he wants to attack Iran it seems.

    Trump likes Putin and Kim Jong Un. Neither are positive influences.
    Trump's influence might keep them in power longer, but that wouldn't
    help peace or prosperity.

    Well trump's departure from a criminal US war in Afghanistan was the start of some peace.
    The war criminal half sane military complex puppet byethen and his criminal son took over and days after he visited Putin the war in youcrane picked up again.


    US is a dead joke anyways, millions without power now due to some storm and flooding
    HOW LONG did it have to prepare for that??? Not gives no shit for its own people.
    All that weapon industry man power could have build a nice infrastructure.

    It did, but global warming knocked quite a lot of it down.

    Bull
    After the flooding here in the Netherlands the Delta Works were build
    No more flooding happened:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works


    Now California earthquakes are increasing..

    Not enough to worry about.

    Wait until December


    Not even a combined nuclear attack by the rest of the world needed to obliterate that
    not so united S (S for shit ;-)?
    But keep asking
    Darwin applies.

    Not here.


    Well Darwin has been proven true, also down-under or down below and when you are upside down .



    No empire lasted forever.

    So far. The US isn't actually an empire, and while their political >arrangements are crude and old-fashioned, they aren't as crude and >old-fashioned as those in force in the historical empires that have
    failed, and they do have mechanisms that would let them modernise them.
    And more modern political arrangements still tolerate creeps like Geert >Wilders. At least he didn't get to be prime minister.

    The constant wars by the US make extreme right in Europe ever stronger, look at Germany
    it is the _intention_ of the US to weaken Europe the EU, China, any big power, in NATO
    to force them to buy crap F35,
    Divide and rule is as old as the Romans.
    However after Nero playing the fiddle, and Trump twittering it seems history is repeating itself.
    History has a habit of ding that
    US IQ dropping to an ever lower single digit value...
    Its all over now ...
    It will - and cannot - recover, greens will take over, all living in grass huts and wigwams
    with no transport and no electricity, chasing rats for food..
    there is your future.
    And then all the fugitives will cross the ocean to Europe and UK.

    The dirty war monger YouAsh blew up the North-stream pipeline
    I want US to compensate EVERY European who had to pay more for gas for that! Oil prices are going up again with thread of attack on Iranian oil
    US may invade if for imaginary reasone like weapons of mass destruction
    like they did invade Iraq and killed Saddam after it got public US had >asked< him to invade Kuwait
    THAT's how SeeEyeAAAh works
    wake up people, do not be a slave of your criminal 'money is the best thing' (YouAsh has the largest deficit ever), look for a system that puts PEOPLE's wellbeing first!
    Revolt!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Fri Oct 4 18:27:12 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 15:25:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 5 Oct 2024 00:09:42 +1000) it happened Bill Slowbot wrote ><bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <vdosvh$85pg$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 4/10/2024 4:50 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery >>> <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
    <MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:

    In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
    says...

    A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
    terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli >>>>> lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
    calculations.

    The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker >>>>> buster bombs.




    I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >>>> firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >>>> military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
    those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there >>>> do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.

    The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They >>>> should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
    giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles >>>> and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.

    There is only one terrorist
    It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!

    That's the sort of fatuous conspiracy theory that only Cursitor Doom
    would take seriously.


    You have been brain-washed / code been re-written / to the point where you no longer see what's happening.


    That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.

    Hamas massacred 1200 people at a festival. Netanyahu would have found
    that hard to organise that as a sales stunt. The Russian invasion of the

    Years ago the land was taken by force from the Palestinians and others who lived there.
    Like the YouAsh did with the Native Americans, now living in reservations >where they then were exposed to nuclear testing for example.
    youws in is-a-hell have been pestering and killing and deporting Palestinians for decennia,
    ever more provoking them by making new illegal settlements
    cutting of sea traffic to Palestine, basically suppressing them and abusing them.
    People revolt if you do that, Palestinians never give up.


    Ukraine would have been even harder for Zelensky to organise.

    YouAss SeeEyeAah has as mission stirring up unrest all over the world
    also so their YouAsh minitary industrial tax payer sucking crap products can be sold.



    even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.

    That's the National Rifle Association - essentially the US hand-gun >>manufacturing industry - but they essentially only sell inside the US.

    Not really, in those Carribian islands the rebels are, with help from CIA, using US made weapons.


    I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.

    Sadly, the gun violence in the US isn't at a level where it will deplete >>enough of the relevant part of the gene pool to make a difference.

    It is a side effect, if they can sell to their own people they will,
    no matter if it kills them.


    Most of the world is uniting now against that US.

    Not that anybody sane has noticed.

    Well if you only see the teefee down under there, maybe you should buy a new set and a satellite dish.
    The media here are censored in a big way.
    Assagne like stuff happens when you do real journalism.




    A trump win may help delay the armageddon but then he wants to attack Iran it seems.

    Trump likes Putin and Kim Jong Un. Neither are positive influences.
    Trump's influence might keep them in power longer, but that wouldn't
    help peace or prosperity.

    Well trump's departure from a criminal US war in Afghanistan was the start of some peace.
    The war criminal half sane military complex puppet byethen and his criminal son
    took over and days after he visited Putin the war in youcrane picked up again.


    US is a dead joke anyways, millions without power now due to some storm and flooding
    HOW LONG did it have to prepare for that??? Not gives no shit for its own people.
    All that weapon industry man power could have build a nice infrastructure. >>
    It did, but global warming knocked quite a lot of it down.

    Bull
    After the flooding here in the Netherlands the Delta Works were build
    No more flooding happened:
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works


    Now California earthquakes are increasing..

    Not enough to worry about.

    Wait until December


    Not even a combined nuclear attack by the rest of the world needed to obliterate that
    not so united S (S for shit ;-)?
    But keep asking
    Darwin applies.

    Not here.


    Well Darwin has been proven true, also down-under or down below and when you are upside down .



    No empire lasted forever.

    So far. The US isn't actually an empire, and while their political >>arrangements are crude and old-fashioned, they aren't as crude and >>old-fashioned as those in force in the historical empires that have
    failed, and they do have mechanisms that would let them modernise them.
    And more modern political arrangements still tolerate creeps like Geert >>Wilders. At least he didn't get to be prime minister.

    The constant wars by the US make extreme right in Europe ever stronger, look at Germany
    it is the _intention_ of the US to weaken Europe the EU, China, any big power, in NATO
    to force them to buy crap F35,
    Divide and rule is as old as the Romans.
    However after Nero playing the fiddle, and Trump twittering it seems history is repeating itself.
    History has a habit of ding that
    US IQ dropping to an ever lower single digit value...
    Its all over now ...
    It will - and cannot - recover, greens will take over, all living in grass huts and wigwams
    with no transport and no electricity, chasing rats for food..
    there is your future.
    And then all the fugitives will cross the ocean to Europe and UK.

    The dirty war monger YouAsh blew up the North-stream pipeline
    I want US to compensate EVERY European who had to pay more for gas for that! >Oil prices are going up again with thread of attack on Iranian oil
    US may invade if for imaginary reasone like weapons of mass destruction
    like they did invade Iraq and killed Saddam after it got public US had >asked< him to invade Kuwait
    THAT's how SeeEyeAAAh works
    wake up people, do not be a slave of your criminal 'money is the best thing' >(YouAsh has the largest deficit ever), look for a system that puts PEOPLE's wellbeing first!
    Revolt!!

    This is why it's so important that the US gets Trump back in charge.
    He's the only one talking about ending all these foreign wars and the
    extreme cost of those adventures in blood and treasure has been close
    to runious. One day the bond markets will call time on this insane
    spending. The ramping up of US sovereign debt over the last few years
    has been off the scale. Trillion dollar deficits! It's madness and
    ultimately unsustainable.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Oct 4 18:41:58 2024
    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 08:02:32 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 06:56:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 21:33:54 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." >><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <2683tkxd7t.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

    On 2024-10-03 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 03/10/2024 10:58, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagers
    can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries. >>>>
    TATP being the most notable exception if you don't care about its nasty >>>> tendency to explode even when you don't want it to. Not long after it
    was first in the news Amazon "helpfully" suggested to me after buying 40 >>>> vols H2O2 that "people who bought this also bought acetone" !?

    That's why I open Amazon with a different profile, so that they can not >>>track what I browse.

    Are not nukes from China cheaper on ebay?
    I had no problem getting the uranium and radium etc etc..
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/PMT_with_radium_in_bag_img_2482.jpg
    from:
    https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/

    Tritium betalights are cool, but technically illegal in the USA. I buy
    them on ebay, shipped from England.

    There are still some thorium lamp mantles around for sale.

    I didn't know you were into fishing, John. Or are you buidling your
    own hydrogen bomb? ;-)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash Gordon@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Fri Oct 4 14:52:55 2024
    On 10/3/2024 2:33 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2024-10-03 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
    That's why I open Amazon with a different profile, so that they can not
    track what I browse.

    Several years ago my boss asked me if I could duplicate an
    electronics-drying apparatus he'd seen on Shark Tank. That was why my
    search history contained "pressure cooker" and "steel shot" back-to-back.

    --
    I'm part of the vast libertarian conspiracy to take over the world and
    leave everyone alone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Crash Gordon@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Oct 4 15:06:26 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On 10/4/2024 9:58 AM, john larkin wrote:
    The real killer here is Chinese fentanyl.

    Fentanyl is only a problem because of the War On Drugs.

    A hundred years ago Americans could buy opium and cocaine legally.
    Addiction rates per capita were similar to today. To re-quote a tired
    old saw, when blah is illegal only criminals will blah. Criminals care
    a lot less about quality and consistency and that's where the danger
    appears.

    If aspirin were invented today the FDA would never approve it for over-the-counter sale because it's too dangerous. But it is legal; consequently I can buy a hundred generic aspirin for five bucks and be confident that each tablet will actually contain 325mg aspirin and no
    fentanyl or arsenic. If aspirin were illegal then 100 "street aspirin"
    would cost a lot more than $5 and might contain anything.

    --
    I'm part of the vast libertarian conspiracy to take over the world and
    leave everyone alone.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sat Oct 5 00:08:15 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 15:06:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    On 10/4/2024 9:58 AM, john larkin wrote:
    The real killer here is Chinese fentanyl.

    Fentanyl is only a problem because of the War On Drugs.

    A hundred years ago Americans could buy opium and cocaine legally.
    Addiction rates per capita were similar to today. To re-quote a tired
    old saw, when blah is illegal only criminals will blah. Criminals care
    a lot less about quality and consistency and that's where the danger
    appears.

    If aspirin were invented today the FDA would never approve it for >over-the-counter sale because it's too dangerous. But it is legal; >consequently I can buy a hundred generic aspirin for five bucks and be >confident that each tablet will actually contain 325mg aspirin and no >fentanyl or arsenic. If aspirin were illegal then 100 "street aspirin"
    would cost a lot more than $5 and might contain anything.

    As a Libertarian myself it's become increasingly clear that any
    government 'intervention' is frequently a bad thing. Every time the
    government 'declares war' against something, someone or some country,
    it typically:

    a) achieves nothing or makes things 10X worse, and
    b) costs a fortune for the taxpayer with nothing worthwhile to show
    for it.

    And no lessons ever seem to get learned, either - despite this pattern recurring over and over and over and over again. :(

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sat Oct 5 14:31:02 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On 5/10/2024 3:27 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 15:25:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 5 Oct 2024 00:09:42 +1000) it happened Bill Slowbot wrote
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <vdosvh$85pg$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 4/10/2024 4:50 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery >>>> <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
    <MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:

    In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
    says...

    <snip>

    The dirty war monger YouAsh blew up the North-stream pipeline
    I want US to compensate EVERY European who had to pay more for gas for that! >> Oil prices are going up again with thread of attack on Iranian oil
    US may invade if for imaginary reasone like weapons of mass destruction
    like they did invade Iraq and killed Saddam after it got public US had >asked< him to invade Kuwait
    THAT's how SeeEyeAAAh works
    wake up people, do not be a slave of your criminal 'money is the best thing' >> (YouAsh has the largest deficit ever), look for a system that puts PEOPLE's wellbeing first!
    Revolt! >
    This is why it's so important that the US gets Trump back in charge.

    Cursitor Doom does like his conspiracy theories to be truly fatuous, and
    Jan Panteltje can deliver the kind of total idiocy that makes Cursitor
    Doom happy.

    He's the only one talking about ending all these foreign wars and the
    extreme cost of those adventures in blood and treasure has been close
    to ruinious.

    Really? The US isn't actually fighting anybody at the moment, and
    subsidising Israel and the Ukraine is a lot cheaper than fighting a real
    war.

    Trump doesn't want to spend even that much money where he can't get
    kickbacks from it - the Ukraine rejected his request that they prosecute
    Hunter Biden, and he still resents it (and the attempt to get him
    impeached for trying to do it).

    One day the bond markets will call time on this insane
    spending. The ramping up of US sovereign debt over the last few years
    has been off the scale. Trillion dollar deficits! It's madness and
    ultimately unsustainable.

    Perhaps. Trump pushed up the US national debt when he was in power by
    giving tax cuts to the well off. Financially responsibility isn't his
    strong suite - his business history includes a lot of bankruptcies.
    Cursitor Doom hasn't noticed that.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sat Oct 5 14:17:53 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On 5/10/2024 1:25 am, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 5 Oct 2024 00:09:42 +1000) it happened Bill Slowbot wrote
    <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <vdosvh$85pg$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 4/10/2024 4:50 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery >>> <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
    <MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:

    In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
    says...

    A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
    terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli >>>>> lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
    calculations.

    The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker >>>>> buster bombs.




    I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >>>> firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >>>> military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
    those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there >>>> do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.

    The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They >>>> should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
    giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles >>>> and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.

    There is only one terrorist
    It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!

    That's the sort of fatuous conspiracy theory that only Cursitor Doom
    would take seriously.

    You have been brain-washed / code been re-written / to the point where you no longer see what's happening.

    Or perhaps Jan Panteltje has.

    <snipped the rest of his drivel >

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Oct 5 14:44:21 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On 5/10/2024 12:58 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 06:50:25 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery
    <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
    <MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:

    In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
    says...

    A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
    terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli >>>> lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
    calculations.

    The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
    buster bombs.




    I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >>> firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >>> military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
    those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
    do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.

    The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They
    should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
    giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
    and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.

    There is only one terrorist

    Yes. Iran.

    It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!
    That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.
    even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.

    That makes news but is rare. Other countries have lunatics using
    knives.

    The real killer here is Chinese fentanyl.

    Fentanyl will kill no matter where it was originally synthesised. What's killing US addicts is a society that leaves the poor vulnerable to that
    kind of temptation. Harm reduction works, but it costs more than the US
    is willing to spend on the less-well-off portion of the population.

    I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.
    Most of the world is uniting now against that US

    Prowl the world with Street View. Most places now look like a suburb
    of Dallas.

    And the rim of the USA is a network of people-diodes all pointing in.

    And you speak English fairly well.

    American don't.

    I was shopping for Japanese gifts in Ngoya. Everything was western.
    All the baseball caps were lettered in English, most from US teams.
    The clothes were all Levis and tee shirts. I did find one tiny part of
    one store that sold Japanese stuff, staffed by one very lonely old
    lady.

    You found your way to a shopping area set up to suck in American tourists.
    The lonely little old lady was probably heavily subsidised window dressing.

    The tourism industry does make sure that tourists get what they want.

    The Australian branch delivers a lot of kangaroos and wallabies. Koala's
    are more difficult and platypuses pretty much impossible.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sat Oct 5 14:54:16 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On 5/10/2024 9:08 am, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 15:06:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
    wrote:

    On 10/4/2024 9:58 AM, john larkin wrote:
    The real killer here is Chinese fentanyl.

    Fentanyl is only a problem because of the War On Drugs.

    A hundred years ago Americans could buy opium and cocaine legally.
    Addiction rates per capita were similar to today. To re-quote a tired
    old saw, when blah is illegal only criminals will blah. Criminals care
    a lot less about quality and consistency and that's where the danger
    appears.

    If aspirin were invented today the FDA would never approve it for
    over-the-counter sale because it's too dangerous. But it is legal;
    consequently I can buy a hundred generic aspirin for five bucks and be
    confident that each tablet will actually contain 325mg aspirin and no
    fentanyl or arsenic. If aspirin were illegal then 100 "street aspirin"
    would cost a lot more than $5 and might contain anything.

    As a Libertarian myself it's become increasingly clear that any
    government 'intervention' is frequently a bad thing.

    It is the necessary delusion that reliably sets you up to be a Libertarian.

    Every time the
    government 'declares war' against something, someone or some country,
    it typically:

    a) achieves nothing or makes things 10X worse, and
    b) costs a fortune for the taxpayer with nothing worthwhile to show
    for it.

    Covid-19 didn't fit that pattern. We got a vaccine against it remarkably quickly, and it's not killing a lot of people any more. People like
    Cursitor Doom who swallowed the anti-vaccination myths are still
    vulnerable, but herd immunity mostly protects them from winning a Darwin
    award.

    And no lessons ever seem to get learned, either - despite this pattern recurring over and over and over and over again. :(

    When you are very selective about the the patterns you will recognise,
    this can appear to be true.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Oct 6 00:07:44 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On 2024-10-04, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:

    This is why it's so important that the US gets Trump back in charge.
    He's the only one talking about ending all these foreign wars

    Talk is cheap, he has a history of not delivering on his promises.

    and the extreme cost of those adventures in blood and treasure has
    been close to runious.

    Really, what is close to ruin? US economy is now stronger that it ever
    was under Trump. GOP may be close to ruin, but it seems to be mostly
    filled with idiots and grifters.

    --
    Jasen.
    🇺🇦 Слава Україні

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org on Sun Oct 6 09:02:46 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On Sun, 6 Oct 2024 00:07:44 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2024-10-04, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:

    This is why it's so important that the US gets Trump back in charge.
    He's the only one talking about ending all these foreign wars

    Talk is cheap, he has a history of not delivering on his promises.

    At least he doesn't salivate and fake an orgasm when he talks about
    war, unlike all the others.

    and the extreme cost of those adventures in blood and treasure has
    been close to runious.

    Really, what is close to ruin? US economy is now stronger that it ever
    was under Trump. GOP may be close to ruin, but it seems to be mostly
    filled with idiots and grifters.

    Close to ruin is when the bond markets force up interest rates for dollar-denominated sovereign debt, forcing government repayments into unsustainable territory and risk of default.
    If you believe the US economy is "stronger than it ever was under
    Trump" you must be getting your news from CNN or MSNBC/New York Times
    or WaPo.

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  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Oct 6 20:24:47 2024
    XPost: us.politics

    On 6/10/2024 7:02 pm, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 6 Oct 2024 00:07:44 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2024-10-04, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:

    This is why it's so important that the US gets Trump back in charge.
    He's the only one talking about ending all these foreign wars

    Talk is cheap, he has a history of not delivering on his promises.

    At least he doesn't salivate and fake an orgasm when he talks about
    war, unlike all the others.

    One of Cursitor Doom's more fatuous claims, and that's a very high level
    of fatuity.

    and the extreme cost of those adventures in blood and treasure has
    been close to runious.

    Really, what is close to ruin? US economy is now stronger that it ever
    was under Trump. GOP may be close to ruin, but it seems to be mostly
    filled with idiots and grifters.

    Close to ruin is when the bond markets force up interest rates for dollar-denominated sovereign debt, forcing government repayments into unsustainable territory and risk of default.

    There's no obvious risk of default.

    If you believe the US economy is "stronger than it ever was under
    Trump" you must be getting your news from CNN or MSNBC/New York Times
    or WaPo.

    Which is to say newspapers that report actual facts, as opposed to the
    fatuous fantasies that Cursitor Doom seems to be addicted to.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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