Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
When I went through Israel 'security' at heathrow back in the late 90's, they put my video camera in a 'sniffer chamber' ( for want of a better word)...presumably to sniff for explosives.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
Well, after it became widely believed that Israel was targeting
residents of Gaza based on smartphone data..
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
Well, after it became widely believed that Israel was targeting
residents of Gaza based on smartphone data..
That makes sense. Most governments find bad guys that way.
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
Retreat into the sea?
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
Retreat into the sea?
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our >>own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against >barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
Retreat into the sea?
Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?
I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.
John
On 18/09/2024 2:09 pm, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Their insensitivity to collateral damage makes them look like decidedly barbarian creeps too.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
Retreat into the sea?
That's not the only option. If Israel negotiated a good enough deal with
the non-barbarian majority in occupied Palestine, that majority might reject Hamas. Killing off dozens of the non-barbarian majority for every Hamas member eliminated isn't a route to that kind of solution.
On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
Retreat into the sea?
Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?
I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.
John
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>> individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>> expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>> individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>> expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
this poothing is sjecked by spellshaker
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
Retreat into the sea?
On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
Retreat into the sea?
Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?
I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:09:45 -0700) it happened john larkin ><JL@gct.com> wrote in <ffkkejlmnbvquu57b24ak7lmi320cr9j19@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our >>>own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on >>>the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous >>>terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against >>barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Bull, they are just a bunch of religious fanatics who believe in Mosex >fireants
Its just a religious brainwashed bunch.
On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our
own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on
the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying
to destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on
both sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when temperature rised above some point
They could heat your smartphone battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make. >Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind
of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
Retreat into the sea?
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?
I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.
On 9/18/2024 2:33 AM, Bill Sloman wrote:
On 18/09/2024 2:09 pm, john larkin wrote:The US is mostly "smart" enough to ensure its wars create massive humanitarian, infrastructure, and sanitation crises in countries
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind >>>>>> of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Their insensitivity to collateral damage makes them look like decidedly
barbarian creeps too.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
Retreat into the sea?
That's not the only option. If Israel negotiated a good enough deal
with
the non-barbarian majority in occupied Palestine, that majority
might
reject Hamas. Killing off dozens of the non-barbarian majority for
every Hamas member eliminated isn't a route to that kind of solution.
thousands of miles away from Washington, but creating one 42 miles from
your nation's capital is ah...well it's an "interesting strategy" to say
the least.
On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind
of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying to destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on both
sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the Israelis
are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 15:00:23 +0100, chrisq wrote:
On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind >>>>>> of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying to
destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on both
sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on >anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly >state-backed terrorism AFAICS.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.
john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
I heard that Hezbollah had decreed cell phones were too easily compromised
so thought lower tech would be better. Presumably the explosive material
was somehow embedded within the battery assembly as that is the only
largish object inside suitable for concealment?
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.
Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>> group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the Israelis
are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish >terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME
on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if >Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.
On 9/18/2024 1:34 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish
terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME >> on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.
Lol sure, dream on. It's about the only fight he's interested in
fighting due the eternal war against Islam being one of the main reasons
his Evangelical "friends" are in with this thrice-divorced adulterer in
the first place.
The only choice we have with respect to the Middle East conflict this >November is whether we want US aid to Israel to go up, or way up.
Islam is at war with Islam.
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>> individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>> expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.
Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.
Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
Gerhard
I heard that Hezbollah had decreed cell phones were too easily compromised >> so thought lower tech would be better. Presumably the explosive material
was somehow embedded within the battery assembly as that is the only
largish object inside suitable for concealment?
Mossad did that in a cellphone used to assassinate a famous bomb
maker, Yahya Ayyash, in 1996.
I'm guessing that the high explosive was used as the potting agent, so
the pager would look as expected when X-rayed. TNT melts at 82 C.
Joe Gwinn
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
lost.
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.
Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.
Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
Gerhard
Am 18.09.24 um 22:06 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
lost.
What is the fucking biz of the Brits to partition this region?
Everywhere on the world where there are straight frontiers the Brits
are not far away. That means that the people who used to live there
do not have any influence. As much as your Grand-Grand-GrandPa hat on
the food exports from Ireland during the famine.
No, having a king-sized base near the Suez channel is no justification.
But then, it would take more time to call their underlings from Nepals, >India, Africa or down under for help.
And what has the UN to say? An organization with veto countries, a club
of the mighty with payed claqueurs, oohh, democracy..
On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.
Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.
Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left
to be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive
and some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to
hand over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to
look it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
Gerhard
It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
and humiliation for the perpetrators.
Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know >anything was amiss.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:35 -0700, John Robertson wrote:
On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:Isn't retreat into the sea what the Gazan's are facing now? Where the
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind >>>>>> of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Rinse and repeat until the act is no longer politically expedient and
retreat in disgrace.
Retreat into the sea?
hell are they supposed to go? Isn't Gaza their homeland?
I'm sorry, when a nation is attacked and loses just under 2,000 people,
and then starts a conflict that kills 40,000 or more and shows no sign
of ending I have to ask who are the terrorists. You may recall hearing
of attacks by the invading party in WW2 where a town would be executed
for the act of a band of fighters...All they both are doing is setting
up the next generation of terrorists on both sides.
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.
Not to mention Ukraine/Russia!
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:19:59 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:35 -0700, John Robertson wrote:
On 2024-09-17 9:09 p.m., john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
What ever happened to Truth and Reconciliation? It worked in South
Africa and Northern Ireland. Time to get it going in Israel and Gaza
before the fools turn the conflagration nuclear.
Not to mention Ukraine/Russia!
History is full of insane dictators who made megadeaths.
Lots of Russians.
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on >anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly >state-backed terrorism AFAICS. And now we have the walkie-talkies! Looks
like Hezbolla are going to have to learn semaphore. ;-)
Am 18.09.24 um 22:06 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
lost.
What is the fucking biz of the Brits to partition this region?
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel >>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
There are many definitions of terrorism:
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 15:00:23 +0100, chrisq <devzero@nospam.com> wrote:
On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost our >>>> own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit rely on >>>> the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more dangerous
terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying
to destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on
both sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...
Only savages take - and murder - innocent hostages.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
And so stupid as to allow the same trick on their walki-talkies the
next day.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:34:48 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>> pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>> it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the Israelis >>>> are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to Jewish
terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups in the ME >> on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else. Hopefully if
Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow themselves to
pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have peace over
there.
The Brits partitioned the area into Jewish and Arab regions, and the
UN agreed. And then a bunch of Muslim countries attacked Israel. And
lost.
They said that the transmissions in Egyptian tanks had one speed
forward and four in reverse.
It is hard for the muslims to make peace with themselves, much less
with Israel.
On 19/09/2024 1:04 am, john larkin wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 15:00:23 +0100, chrisq <devzero@nospam.com> wrote:
On 9/18/24 05:09, john larkin wrote:Only savages take - and murder - innocent hostages.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 21:56:22 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:Don't judge, as i'm not there and the truth is the first casualty in
On 9/17/2024 7:32 PM, john larkin wrote:
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind >>>>>>> of highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for >>>>>> secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israel is fighting its war on terror about the same way the US lost
our own; bomb and shoot anything that moves and if someone gets hit
rely on the mainstream media to dutifully report that one more
dangerous terrorist has been eliminated.
The difference is that they are fighting for their survival, against
barbarian creeps who want them all dead.
war. The way I read it is: Release all the hostages and stop trying to
destroy Israel, and then they might talk. Horrendous suffering on both
sides, but how else to deal with murdering savages ?...
But Israel's casual attitude to collateral damage is equally
uncivilised.
Trump could make peace and avoid WW3,
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 10:23:10 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2024-09-18 22:32, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
There is a repeating pattern here:
We have two countries, A and B, at war with one another.
Country A uses weapons of low accuracy, killing mostly civilians plus
a few unlucky military.
Country B uses weapons of high accuracy, killing mostly military plus
a few unlucky civilians.
Which is better, and why?
On 2024-09-18 22:32, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>> wrote:
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
There are many definitions of terrorism:
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>
Very true. There is not a full definition, internationally
approved/accepted definition of terrorism.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>>>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>>> individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>>> expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>>>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel >>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
There are many definitions of terrorism:
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>
Joe Gwinn
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." ><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>>>> pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>>> individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>>> expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*. >>>>>> Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of
highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel >>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses >making war industry...
US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...
Brain dead evil country.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 +0000, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Trump could make peace and avoid WW3,
you're fucking kidding right, that cunt had the entire world on brink of
a nuclear ww3, the only reason NK didnt pull that trigger is coz Kimmy,
like the rest of the world, was too busy rolling around the floor
laughing his arse off at the stupid fool runing the U.S.A.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." >><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>>>> individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>>>> expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses >>making war industry...
US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...
Brain dead evil country.
OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.
And invite Germany back in to rule your country.
My guess is the people who set up the walkie-talkie operation were
surprised when the pagers were blown up and blew up their units as soon
as possible afterwards, before their gear could get run through X-ray imagers.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:32:53 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>>>>> individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>>>> expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians
injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel >>>
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
There are many definitions of terrorism:
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Definition_of_terrorism>
Joe Gwinn
Does that include slaughtering and raping people at a concert?
On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
*how* this was accomplished. So I'll answer my own question.
Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature. Then installed
these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
said it should be.
Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
up resulting in detonation of the PETN. I wouldn't be surprised to find
a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
over the threshold. Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
heating when the battery is being charged.
The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted individuals.
On 9/18/2024 1:34 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David
Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to
Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups
in the ME on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else.
Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow
themselves to pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have
peace over there.
Lol sure, dream on. It's about the only fight he's interested in
fighting due the eternal war against Islam being one of the main reasons
his Evangelical "friends" are in with this thrice-divorced adulterer in
the first place.
The only choice we have with respect to the Middle East conflict this November is whether we want US aid to Israel to go up, or way up.
On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.
Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.
Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to
be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look
it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
Gerhard
and humiliation for the perpetrators.
Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know anything was amiss.
Realistic explanation: They shipped in a bunch of them in a hurry, doled
them out in a hurry to just about whomever wanted one, and popped
whomever was unfortunate enough to get their hands on one within about
two weeks.
On 9/18/2024 1:34 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to
Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang. All these groups
in the ME on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else.
Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow
themselves to pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have
peace over there.
Incidentally Trump and Harris hardly discussed foreign policy at the
debates at all, there is no novel thinking to be found there.
Outside of the context of Evangelicals and the aforementioned forever
war the overwhelming majority of Americans simply don't give a fuck
about foreign policy as an election issue, so it's a waste of time for
either of them to even think much about it.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 22:01:24 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
wrote:
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on
anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly
state-backed terrorism AFAICS.
Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.
Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.
That was accidental, collateral damage. Sadly, that happens in war.
I doubt it was her pager.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to
be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David >>promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look
it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
I live in San Francisco and rarely thump bibles. And I confess to being
3/4 German and 1/4 Irish.
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 13:40:02 -0700, john larkin wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 22:01:24 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
wrote:
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on >>>>> anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly >>>>> state-backed terrorism AFAICS.
Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.
Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of >>>deaths yesterday.
That was accidental, collateral damage. Sadly, that happens in war.
I doubt it was her pager.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to >>>be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David >>>promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look >>>it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
I live in San Francisco and rarely thump bibles. And I confess to being
3/4 German and 1/4 Irish.
That would account for your bad temper when you've had a drink! :-D
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex wrote:
On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:It was a high-risk operation with a very high probability of discovery
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
Talking with Israel never achieved anything. They don't compromise on >>>>> anything. As for the murdering savages, the pager business is clearly >>>>> state-backed terrorism AFAICS.
Not terrorism. Targeted attacks on specific enemies.
Like the 8 year old girl and the other kid among the first dozen of
deaths yesterday.
But that has tradition. King Saul's genozide of the Amalekitans left to
be desired because of its imperfection. He left their King alive and
some extra pretty goats. The Amalekitans really did not like to hand
over their land to the Israelites who invaded from Egypt / Sinai.
Sounds familiar? Even Nethanyahu talks as of last year?
That imperfection was King Saul's ticket to replacement. King David
promised > 100% performance, at least. No one left to complain.
They still meet under his flag.
You as a south state / Irish bible thumper will have no problem to look
it up. Take Book Samuel as a starting point.
Gerhard
and humiliation for the perpetrators.
Media explanation: The Mossad has super powers, was planning and
organizing this for months, and nailed hundreds of high-ranking
terrorists with exacting precision, all of whom were too stupid to know
anything was amiss.
Realistic explanation: They shipped in a bunch of them in a hurry, doled
them out in a hurry to just about whomever wanted one, and popped
whomever was unfortunate enough to get their hands on one within about
two weeks.
Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on board
at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines' >explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll have
to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't >happen going forward.
How safe do you feel buying on Ebay and Amazon right now?
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote in <a4eoejlqa3q0gols8jpedac890a9cg7ok2@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." >>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>>>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for
secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses >>> making war industry...
US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...
Brain dead evil country.
OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.
It was the *US* that had youcrane blow up the Russian Northstream pipelines to the rest of Europe.
Food> from the US? Nothing I eat.
Why do you think your country has the largest deficit in the world.
Becaue nobody wants to buy your shit, China is better and cheaper.
WE have the real chip tech FYI, it scares the US so much they try anything to get us
not exporting it to for example China.
The d*mn F35 that our CVA controlled poly-ticsians bought tho rpelace the old F16s
makes so much noise that there are now groups standing up againt it
and other example for US crap, a ten year old with a stone can kill it.
your Ali-Gator electret will detect it miles away, no radar needed to get a slingshot at it.
And invite Germany back in to rule your country.
Well, we are both in the EU and make decisions together with other countries. Anyasy I decided some time ago to stop with rapis.
Posted about that and why here.
As far as sjips go, raspies are made in the UK FYI.
China and Korea has most stuff I need, teefee, monitors all Samsung Harddisks:Japan
SDcards: Samsung
Camaras: Japan and smartphone xiaomi from China
Lotd of other Chinese stuff, from GPS receivers to Oleds, to LCD⇧s, LEDs, what not.
Just received a detonation message on my Nokia (also made in Europe) but had removed the
the 'plosives long ago.
Was in the kitchen anyways when it happened, phone in the living room,.
You say you are part German, can you even read or speak German?
Without Von Braun you 'merricans would never have reached the moon.
Without Russia neither ,'merricans were just trying to catch up, show off... AND on top of that after all the youwish genocide YOU support, makes me think if Hitler had a point.
Was a program about 'Mein Kampf' here on German TV a few month ago, you can get it online it seems.
It all depends now does it?
YouAshAAAAAAAH's game is to create wars, use CIA to support rebellion parties, movement, now in Venezuela,
tensions you create make utra right getting stronger and stronger.
You never did win from Germany, it was Russia that did win
as it did from Nappy,
YouAshAAAAA was fighting Japanese and when it could not win it used genocide on Japanese citicens
to make Japan surrender, an ather US war crime as was Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc Youcrane
If you had any self-respect you would move to your German [square] roots At least *I* told the CIA to fuck of
when they asked me.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>> be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>> expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>> had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>> explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the
device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>> to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
- generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently hot.
On 9/19/24 17:30, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin
<JL@gct.com> wrote in <a4eoejlqa3q0gols8jpedac890a9cg7ok2@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." >>>> <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>: >>>>
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped
pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted
individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would
be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be
expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like
explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>>>>>> device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has
to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
They probably got a few militants among the thousands of civilians >>>>>>> injured, only credulous Americans would believe there was any kind of >>>>>>> highly rigorous methodology as to how they were distributed.
I understand that Hezbollah bought the pagers for their own use for >>>>>> secure communications, so Hezbollah people mostly got them.
Collateral damage is to some extent inevitable in war, but the
Israelis are not terrorists. Hamas and Hezbollah are.
Israelis invented terrorism when they planted a bomb in the King David Hotel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/King_David_Hotel_bombing
But discussing any of that is off topic in this group.
US war mongering, and now even the demonrats manipulating the media
to get people to kill the aspiring president of the opposite party,
all to suck the ever poorer US taxpayer to pay for their ever more losses >>>> making war industry...
US at war with itself and making wars in the rest of the world.
Censoring the media, tiktop, RT, others, to just keep their war criminals in control...
Brain dead evil country.
OK, buy someone else's chips and natural gas and food.
It was the *US* that had youcrane blow up the Russian Northstream pipelines to the rest of Europe.
Food> from the US? Nothing I eat.
Why do you think your country has the largest deficit in the world.
Becaue nobody wants to buy your shit, China is better and cheaper.
WE have the real chip tech FYI, it scares the US so much they try anything to get us
not exporting it to for example China.
The d*mn F35 that our CVA controlled poly-ticsians bought tho rpelace the old F16s
makes so much noise that there are now groups standing up againt it
and other example for US crap, a ten year old with a stone can kill it.
your Ali-Gator electret will detect it miles away, no radar needed to get a slingshot at it.
And invite Germany back in to rule your country.
Well, we are both in the EU and make decisions together with other countries.
Anyasy I decided some time ago to stop with rapis.
Posted about that and why here.
As far as sjips go, raspies are made in the UK FYI.
China and Korea has most stuff I need, teefee, monitors all Samsung
Harddisks:Japan
SDcards: Samsung
Camaras: Japan and smartphone xiaomi from China
Lotd of other Chinese stuff, from GPS receivers to Oleds, to LCD?s, LEDs, what not.
Just received a detonation message on my Nokia (also made in Europe) but had removed the
the 'plosives long ago.
Was in the kitchen anyways when it happened, phone in the living room,.
You say you are part German, can you even read or speak German?
Without Von Braun you 'merricans would never have reached the moon.
Without Russia neither ,'merricans were just trying to catch up, show off... >> AND on top of that after all the youwish genocide YOU support, makes me think if Hitler had a point.
Was a program about 'Mein Kampf' here on German TV a few month ago, you can >> get it online it seems.
It all depends now does it?
YouAshAAAAAAAH's game is to create wars, use CIA to support rebellion parties, movement, now in Venezuela,
tensions you create make utra right getting stronger and stronger.
You never did win from Germany, it was Russia that did win
as it did from Nappy,
YouAshAAAAA was fighting Japanese and when it could not win it used genocide on Japanese citicens
to make Japan surrender, an ather US war crime as was Korea, Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan, etc etc Youcrane
If you had any self-respect you would move to your German [square] roots At least *I* told the CIA to fuck of
when they asked me.
You know, Jan, if you want your opinion to carry any weight,
you'd better drop the witticisms.
Jeroen Belleman
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally >>>>booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>>be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>>expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be >>>>*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>>had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>>explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>>to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make.
Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
- generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't >normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently >hot.
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex wrote:
On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on board >> at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines'
explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll have
to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't
happen going forward.
It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
worked on a plane.
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:38:18 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
<jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 9/19/24 17:30, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 19 Sep 2024 07:45:22 -0700) it happened john larkin >>> <JL@gct.com> wrote in <a4eoejlqa3q0gols8jpedac890a9cg7ok2@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 12:55:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 18 Sep 2024 11:01:07 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <jfhqrkx4ce.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>: >>>>>
On 2024-09-18 01:32, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 19:03:45 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote: >>>>>>>
On 9/17/2024 6:39 PM, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>>>> wrote:
"If you save someone's life, they will hate you forever."
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 14:52:55 -0400, bitrex wrote:
On 9/18/2024 1:34 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
The state of Israel only came into being in the first place due to
Jewish terrorist groups like Ergun and the Stern Gang.
All these groups
in the ME on all sides are a giant pain in the arse to everyone else.
Hopefully if Trump gets back into the WH he'll let them all just blow
themselves to pieces without any US intervention and we'll finally have
peace over there.
Incidentally Trump and Harris hardly discussed foreign policy at the
debates at all, there is no novel thinking to be found there.
Outside of the context of Evangelicals and the aforementioned forever
war the overwhelming majority of Americans simply don't give a fuck
about foreign policy as an election issue, so it's a waste of time for
either of them to even think much about it.
The US devolved foreign policy to Israel a long, long time ago.
And given
as you say the average American isn't bothered, it's not something that'll merit much air-time in any debate. It'll be all about the Left accusing
Trump of being callous and uncaring and the Right about tax rises under Harris.
On 20/09/2024 06:15, Bill Sloman wrote:
On 20/09/2024 7:07 am, john larkin wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex wrote:
On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
<snip>
Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on
board
at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the airlines' >>>> explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll
have
to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure it can't >>>> happen going forward.
It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
worked on a plane.
Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
technology.
Not really. They have windows. The doors are not electrically connected
to the fuselage all the way round so they act as slot antennas.
Mobile phones work fine inside planes.
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally >>>booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that would >>>be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as would be >>>expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be >>>*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these pagers >>>had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" like >>>explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror of the >>>device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy it, one has >>>to on some level, admire the skill required to manage it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used here
- generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got sufficiently hot.
Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older technology.
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >individuals.
On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
*how* this was accomplished. So I'll answer my own question.
Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature. Then installed
these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
said it should be.
Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
up resulting in detonation of the PETN. I wouldn't be surprised to find
a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
over the threshold. Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
heating when the battery is being charged.
The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.
On 20/09/2024 06:15, Bill Sloman wrote:
On 20/09/2024 7:07 am, john larkin wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 20:26:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 16:48:01 -0400, bitrex wrote:
On 9/18/2024 4:01 PM, Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
Am 18.09.24 um 20:08 schrieb john larkin:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 17:30:23 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
<snip>
Thank god one of them didn't go off in an airliner with Europeans on
board at the time. That could so easily have happened. Hopefully the
airlines'
explosive sniffers would have detected them. If they cannot, they'll
have to do something *quick* to improve security measures to ensure
it can't happen going forward.
It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
worked on a plane.
Planes are Faraday cages. These days they do use WiFi inside the
aircraft to give people access to the Web, but pagers rely on older
technology.
Not really. They have windows. The doors are not electrically connected
to the fuselage all the way round so they act as slot antennas.
Mobile phones work fine inside planes.
John
On 9/19/24 23:01, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.
There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.
Jeroen Belleman
Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.
They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.
Other interesting information in the book "Winston Churchill's Toyshop"
and that was the technology of 80 years ago.
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>individuals.
It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of the explosions were the batteries.
These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
their way to make their products as safe as possible.
There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos clearly
show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The
explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
explosive.
More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:51:38 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
On 9/19/24 23:01, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>> group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.
There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes
from raising its temperature.
It sounds easier to just add an explosive and a detonator.
easier
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>individuals.
It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of
the explosions were the batteries.
These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
their way to make their products as safe as possible.
There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos
clearly show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The >explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
explosive.
More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.
On 2024-09-19 17:59, Crash Gordon wrote:
On 9/17/2024 1:18 PM, Crash Gordon wrote:
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be *designed*.
I expected there'd be politics, but I was hoping for more discussion of
*how* this was accomplished. So I'll answer my own question.
Apparently "somebody" built batteries containing PETN which would
detonate when the battery exceeded some temperature. Then installed
these batteries into ordinary pagers; the only clue that something was
wrong would be that battery life would likely not be what the spec sheet
said it should be.
Then by repeatedly triggering the pagers, caused the batteries to heat
up resulting in detonation of the PETN. I wouldn't be surprised to find
a piece of nichrome inside the battery; it would heat a little when the
pager activated and then cool off, but repeated activation would push it
over the threshold. Maybe a schottky involved somehow, to prevent
heating when the battery is being charged.
But it appears that they exploded simultaneously or nearly so. Hard to >achieve that synchronicity by heating. I rather think they sent some
type of code, maybe a string.
Methinks that now the factories are a legitimate target for the
"receiving side", unless they can convincingly prove that they are
totally innocent.
I wonder if the entire batch was deployed, whether there are intact
pagers in storage that they can investigate.
The radios on the next day would have been fitted with similar batteries
but I'm not sure how they would have triggered the heating.
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:51:38 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
On 9/19/24 23:01, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>> group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.
There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes built-in
from raising its temperature.
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:36:57 +0200, Robert Roland wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>individuals.
It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of the
explosions were the batteries.
These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can
explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an
explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of
their way to make their products as safe as possible.
There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos clearly
show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The
explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
explosive.
More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.
The bovine masses simply accept what they're told for the most part. They >seem incapable of critical thinking.
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large
group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as
would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror
of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that
were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when
temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone
isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have
necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.
They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.
Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.
Other interesting information in the book "Winston Churchill's Toyshop"
and that was the technology of 80 years ago.
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom ><cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>> >>wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode.
Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>> >>>group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that
would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>> >>>would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell"
like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>> >>>of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy
it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage
it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>> >>were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>> > temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.
They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature
and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.
Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a >>specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.
PETN heated by a laser.
.<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948>
Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion
Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 23:51:38 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
On 9/19/24 23:01, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these
pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>> it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone
battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used
here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.
There are high explosives that can be set off by a feather and others
that wouldn't go even when dropped down from a plane.
Jeroen Belleman
Yes, I know. But *name one* which could be used in a pager that explodes
from raising its temperature.
Um. This is an electronics design group. Is it really that hard to
imagine how to make a temperature-triggered detonator?
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:36:57 +0200, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally booby-trapped >>>pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large group of targeted >>>individuals.
It is interesting how, shortly after the incident, the meadia was full
of statements from "experts" claiming that the most likely source of
the explosions were the batteries.
These experts would explain that, if shorted, a lithium battery can >>explode. They made no attempt at explaining, or even speculating, how
this short would have implemented. Nor did they explain the such an >>explosion is extremely unlikely, since battery manufacturers go out of >>their way to make their products as safe as possible.
There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos
clearly show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The >>explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
explosive.
More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.
And have Journalism degrees.
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 11:07:07 -0700, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 12:36:57 +0200, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>
wrote:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
There were videos of one or two explosions published. The videos
clearly show explosions that are nothing like a battery explosion. The
explosions are hard and sharp, consistent with a high-velocity
explosive.
More interestingly, no journalist posed any question whatsoever. They
are not interested in the truth. They are only interested in a story.
And have Journalism degrees.
And work for "newspapers" like the WaPo and NYT.
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:PETN heated by a laser.
Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>>> pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>>> it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone >>>>>> battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used >>>>> here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.
They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature >>>> and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.
Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>> think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists. >>
.<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948> >>
Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion
But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
battery.
No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
does this.
You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
pursue the matter ad infinitum.
Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
analyzed.
It would be interesting to see what they did.
On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
analyzed.
It would be interesting to see what they did.
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
in steel.
Would that work?
I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
include some GSM circuitry?
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
analyzed.
It would be interesting to see what they did.
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
in steel.
Would that work?
Detonators are usually a fine wire or nowadays a metallic thin film
resistor that heats up very fast, in microseconds, and starts some
primer material, which then detonates the main charge.
I was talking to a guy at a flea market who designs nukes. He said
that modern gadgets use an explosive that is very hard to trigger;
ordinary detonators won't work. They use a tiny thing, a substrate
with a thin-film resistor coated with some special primer stuff. That
thing is embedded in the main explosive.
You can see some similar detonators at the visitors center in Los
Alamos.
I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
include some GSM circuitry?
Just a pager message, probably.
It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
worked on a plane.
On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
Reports suggest that some of the pagers didn't detonate, so can be
analyzed.
It would be interesting to see what they did.
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
in steel.
Would that work?
I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
include some GSM circuitry?
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
in steel.
Would that work?
Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
near in fact.
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 14:07:33 -0700, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
(chomp)
It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have
worked on a plane.
Not all that special. Pagers made since about 1990 all included a
"group call" feature, where all the pagers in a pre-programmed group
activate simultaneously. It's normally used to broadcast
announcements: ><https://help.yeastar.com/en/p-series-appliance-edition/administrator-guide/set-up-a-one-way-paging-group.html>
I'm old enough (76) to have been involved with pagers since they
looked and weighed like a small brick and were full of germanium
transistors and vibrating reed tone decoders.
Pagers and cell phones have problems on airplanes. The older airplane
have an aluminum outer skin, which acts as a partial shield. Current
model airplanes are full of carbon fiber, which acts as an RF absorber
and is actually more effective at blocking RF than a patchwork of
sheet aluminum.
However, that's not why pagers (and cell phones) have problems on
airplanes. Pagers do not tolerate co-channel interference very well: ><https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Co-channel_interference>
At almost any altitude, the pager is hearing many pager transmitters
and cell sites, many of which are using the same frequency or channel.
The receiver becomes either overloaded or the data becomes garbled by
the resultant interference. I have that problem in the hills where I
live. While the view of Silicon Valley from the top of the local
peaks is impressive, the pager and cellular performance is dismal or >non-existent. I can be within maximum range and line of sight of the
desired transmitter, but the pager doesn't respond and the cell phone
claims it has "no signal" (which really means it has an excessively
high SNR (signal to noise ratio). The only ways I can make such
devices work at altitude is with a directional antenna or moving to a
less impressive location. Basically, the paging (and cellular)
systems were not designed to operate in the very crowded RF
environment found in an airplane at altitude.
I've been randomly watching various YouTube videos in a futile attempt
to obtain accurate information on the technology used. Literally,
every video was useless.
For example, many experts are claiming that pagers are no longer used.
It's not what it used to be before the 1990's and introduction of cell >phones, but they certainly are quite common if you know where to look.
For a time, I was selling pagers modified to close several relay
contacts. They were used for everything between wireless rebooting a >computer to turning on/off equipment. The local fire department uses
both pagers and walkie-talkies. The pagers predominate because they
are cheaper. Some of the voice pagers include storage for recording
the last dispatch so it could be replayed.
The Icom IC-V82 walkie-talky is a different story. The IC-V82 does
not come stock with a paging (POCSAG or Flex) decoder. It could be
used to provide a paging function with the addition of either the
optional UT-108 DTMF decoder or the UT-118 DSTAR digital voice and
decoder. In order to "group call" these radios, the handhelds would
need to be part of a DSTAR radio repeater network. ><https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1038044/Icom-Ic-V82.html#manual> ><https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1038044/Icom-Ic-V82.html?page=12#manual> >Note that this my guess(tm) as to how it was done with the IC-V82 and
should not be considered authoritative.
I could write a long rant on explosives and other "amazing facts" from
online experts, but I don't want to write anything that might be
construed as bomb making instructions. Sorry.
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 11:03:39 -0700, Jeff Liebermann <jeffl@cruzio.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 19 Sep 2024 14:07:33 -0700, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
(chomp)
It was probably detonated by some special message, and wouldn't have >>>worked on a plane.
Not all that special. Pagers made since about 1990 all included a
"group call" feature, where all the pagers in a pre-programmed group >>activate simultaneously. It's normally used to broadcast
announcements: >><https://help.yeastar.com/en/p-series-appliance-edition/administrator-guide/set-up-a-one-way-paging-group.html>
I'm old enough (76) to have been involved with pagers since they
looked and weighed like a small brick and were full of germanium >>transistors and vibrating reed tone decoders.
They still needed some way to fire the detonator, sort of a spare port
pin on the uP or whatever is in the pager.
(chomp again)
On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing
in steel.
Would that work?
Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
near in fact.
So what would happen?
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>> in steel.
Would that work?
Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
near in fact.
So what would happen?
Nothing.
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>>> in steel.
Would that work?
Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
near in fact.
So what would happen?
Nothing.
On 21/09/2024 23:30, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>>>> in steel.
Would that work?
Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
near in fact.
So what would happen?
Nothing.
So, gunpowder igniting in a steel casing would do nothing. Twat.
On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 10:38:02 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/09/2024 23:30, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>>>>> in steel.
Would that work?
Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
near in fact.
So what would happen?
Nothing.
So, gunpowder igniting in a steel casing would do nothing. Twat.
Excuse me? You said you'd "drill a hole in some high explosive" and
use your gunpowder and filament idea to set it off. I will NOT work.
You will never set-off a practical high explosive with gunpowder. It
burns far too slowly. You have to generatate a short, sharp shock
using something like mercury fulminate which has the necessary
brisance.
On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
include some GSM circuitry?
Just a pager message, probably.
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>> in steel.
Would that work?
Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere
near in fact.
So what would happen?
Nothing.
On 2024-09-21 18:55, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
...
Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
include some GSM circuitry?
Just a pager message, probably.
There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need >repeaters, even a repeater network.
That way a policeman can talk to any other policeman or fireworker or >ambulance driver in the city, or the entire region. In privacy if
desired. And without fees.
I don't know the name of the system.
On 22/09/2024 13:35, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 10:38:02 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/09/2024 23:30, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 20:51:47 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 21/09/2024 19:24, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
<snip>
I know little of explosives, but were I asked to make something
suitable, I'd drill a hole in some high-explosive, fill it with
gunpowder, embed a filament in the gunpowder and encase the whole thing >>>>>>> in steel.
Would that work?
Nope. Gunpowder is insufficiently brisant for this purpose. Nowhere >>>>>> near in fact.
So what would happen?
Nothing.
So, gunpowder igniting in a steel casing would do nothing. Twat.
Excuse me? You said you'd "drill a hole in some high explosive" and
use your gunpowder and filament idea to set it off. I will NOT work.
You will never set-off a practical high explosive with gunpowder. It
burns far too slowly. You have to generatate a short, sharp shock
using something like mercury fulminate which has the necessary
brisance.
It's in a steel housing, as stated. I'm fully prepared to accept that
the high temperature and pressure generated by the gunpowder may not set
off the high explosive.
I'm not prepared to accept that it will do 'nothing' as you said. I
hoped against hope that you might have some special knowledge in this
area. I should have known better.
Now I have no idea why you're asking about this but I'm getting
uncomfortable with your line of questioning. For all we know you might
be planning some kind of terror attack so I have nothing further to
say on this subject. I will not be baited into divulging such info in
a public forum.
On 22/09/2024 15:21, Cursitor Doom wrote:
<snip>
Now I have no idea why you're asking about this but I'm getting
uncomfortable with your line of questioning. For all we know you might
be planning some kind of terror attack so I have nothing further to
say on this subject. I will not be baited into divulging such info in
a public forum.
:-)
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!
(Robert Burns)
There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need >repeaters, even a repeater network.
On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need >>repeaters, even a repeater network.
If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
each other without any connection to a base station.
This makes them useful also in areas whitout coverage, or when the
base station infrastructure is inoperative.
On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 19:11:54 +0200, Robert Roland <fake@ddress.no>
wrote:
On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 15:04:39 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need
repeaters, even a repeater network.
If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
each other without any connection to a base station.
This makes them useful also in areas whitout coverage, or when the
base station infrastructure is inoperative.
They're also encrypted. And it's a very tough algorithm which is
reckoned to be unbreakable. Hopefully not in the same way as the
Titannic was "unsinkable" if you will. Overall, it's a highly
effective and flexible system ideally suited for police and security
service use.
On Sun, 22 Sep 2024 17:05:56 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 22/09/2024 15:21, Cursitor Doom wrote:
<snip>
Now I have no idea why you're asking about this but I'm getting
uncomfortable with your line of questioning. For all we know you might
be planning some kind of terror attack so I have nothing further to
say on this subject. I will not be baited into divulging such info in
a public forum.
:-)
O wad some Pow'r the giftie gie us
To see oursels as ithers see us!
It wad frae mony a blunder free us,
An' foolish notion:
What airs in dress an' gait wad lea'e us,
An' ev'n devotion!
(Robert Burns)
The kind of questions you've been posing are highly suggestive of
someone who has obtained access to high explosives but not the
detonators. Detonators - usually but not always blasting caps - have
to be stored separately from the explosives for safety reasons and
invariably under lock and key.
Two nut-cases have already tried to whack Trump. We don't need any
more Left-wing lunatics scheming up ideas to de-stabilize an already fractious electorate.
On 2024-09-21 18:55, Clive Arthur wrote:
On 21/09/2024 16:21, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 21 Sep 2024 10:21:11 +0100, Clive Arthur
<clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:
On 20/09/2024 19:05, john larkin wrote:
<snip>
...
Do walkie-talkies generally have that facility?I do wonder how the walkie-talkies were set off. Would they have to
include some GSM circuitry?
Just a pager message, probably.
There is a kind of walkie talkie that works similarly to GSM. They need >repeaters, even a repeater network.
That way a policeman can talk to any other policeman or fireworker or >ambulance driver in the city, or the entire region. In privacy if
desired. And without fees.
I don't know the name of the system.
If you mean Tetra, the handsets can also communicate directly with
each other without any connection to a base station.
They're also encrypted. And it's a very tough algorithm which is
reckoned to be unbreakable.
Anybody who has ever seen "The Apprentice" - even briefly - would want
to whack Trump.
On 9/22/2024 10:07 PM, Bill Sloman wrote:
Anybody who has ever seen "The Apprentice" - even briefly - would want
to whack Trump.
I liked "The Apprentice", but lost interest when it became "Celebrity Apprentice" -- the contestants no longer had any real skin in the game.
I was pretty sure that the Trump we saw in that show was a character,
and we weren't supposed to like him.
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be
*designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>>> pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>>> it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone >>>>>> battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you
make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea?
Is there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used >>>>> here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
sufficiently hot.
They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are
detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature >>>> and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.
Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>> think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.
PETN heated by a laser.
.<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948> >>
Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion
But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
battery. No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
does this. You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
pursue the matter ad infinitum.
On 21/09/2024 00:04, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john >>>>>>> larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote inIs there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used >>>>>> here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be >>>>>>>>> *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>>>> pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>>>> it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone >>>>>>> battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you >>>>>>> make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea? >>>>>>
sufficiently hot.
They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are >>>>> detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature >>>>> and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.
Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>>> think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.
Tetrazene meets your requirements at below the boiling point of water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrazene_explosive
That would be well within the range that a phone battery might reach if
it was deliberately shorted out. I doubt if that was how they did it
though. Nothing like enough black smoke in the videos.
A military grade high explosive seems far more likely for a state actor. >Weight really matters in a portable device.
PETN heated by a laser.
.<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948> >>>
Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion
But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
battery. No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
does this. You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
pursue the matter ad infinitum.
Given the low internal resistance of a Lithium battery there is no
problem in using a detonator that is in essence a nichrome filament
coated in the right primer and RDX or HMX as the main charge. This was
almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection by Hamas operatives.
There are plenty of explosives that will detonate at red heat.
I wonder if a tiny fraction of them did not detonate when instructed to
do so or if there are any of them still out in the wild and not in Hamas >hands. They will be interesting if a bit risky to dismantle.
Am 02.10.24 um 23:06 schrieb john larkin:
A great opportunity to make more martyrs.
like the 8 yo girl and the other kid that were
among the first dozen of deaths.
Gerhard
A great opportunity to make more martyrs.
This was
almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection...
On 3/10/2024 5:56 am, Martin Brown wrote:
This was
almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection...
Apart from x-ray examination, it would also be sensible to measure the electrical capacity of the battery and its weight, for any suspect
device. As far as I know, there isn't another rechargeable battery
chemistry with vastly higher Wh/kg than commercial LiPo cells, so it
would be difficult to make a fake battery with the correct capacity and weight, if it also contained a significant mass of other things.
On 03/10/2024 06:31, Chris Jones wrote:
On 3/10/2024 5:56 am, Martin Brown wrote:
This was
almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection...
Apart from x-ray examination, it would also be sensible to measure the
electrical capacity of the battery and its weight, for any suspect
device. As far as I know, there isn't another rechargeable battery
chemistry with vastly higher Wh/kg than commercial LiPo cells, so it
would be difficult to make a fake battery with the correct capacity
and weight, if it also contained a significant mass of other things.
Capacity would probably not be quite as high as you might hope for a new battery but if ~10% of its mass was HMX that would probably be enough.
I suspect that in future terrorist groups will attempt to detonate any
such handheld devices that they buy in. This was a one time pony trick.
My guess is that it looked OK on dentists X-ray and that terrorists
would not have access to multiband X-ray or terahertz imaging which
could determine the unexpectedly high nitrogen content of an explosive.
It is in essence a variant on the bottles of liquid explosive and fake
toner cartridges that terrorists have tried to use against airlines.
And the reason why we still can't take more than 100ml of anything on a plane. Oddly my local airport is fully equipped with the right gear at
great expense but the rules were relaxed only for a few weeks and then re-imposed. I have no idea why that happened it cost a hell of a lot to
do and now the regional airports get no benefit from having done it!
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clmm97x3yvmo
I suspect it was the laggard major UK hub airports lobbying (they have
been very slow to adopt it) rather than any good scientific reason.
On 21/09/2024 00:04, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 17:16:28 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 16:57:47 -0000 (UTC), Cursitor Doom
<cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 20 Sep 2024 09:57:27 +0100, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd999666@notformail.com> wrote:
On Wed, 18 Sep 2024 06:37:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 17 Sep 2024 15:39:17 -0700) it happened john >>>>>>> larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote inIs there such an explosive? High explosives - as it appears were used >>>>>> here - generally need a significant *shock* to set them off. Heat alone >>>>>> isn't normally enough and even if it were, the temp required would have >>>>>> necessitated the rapid discarding of the pager before it got
<rv0kejddm69cioik17oeujstlfig16jn4o@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 17 Sep 2024 13:18:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com> >>>>>>>> wrote:
Pagers, even with a cheap LiPo battery that fails, do not explode. >>>>>>>>> Somebody built hundreds, maybe thousands, of intentionally
booby-trapped pagers and then managed to distribute them to a large >>>>>>>>> group of targeted individuals.
This absolutely screams "state actor" but all of the states that >>>>>>>>> would be capable of pulling it off have disavowed any connection, as >>>>>>>>> would be expected.
Posting is on-topic for s.e.d because these things had to be >>>>>>>>> *designed*.
Targets can be expected to cross security boundaries so these >>>>>>>>> pagers
had to look like normal pagers under X-ray, and had to not "smell" >>>>>>>>> like explosives. Putting aside, for sake of discussion, the horror >>>>>>>>> of the device itself and the evil necessary to conceive and deploy >>>>>>>>> it, one has to on some level, admire the skill required to manage >>>>>>>>> it.
It's assumed that the Israelis booby-trapped the batch of pagers that >>>>>>>> were bought by Hezbollah. Fiendishly clever.
I'm surprised that anybody still makes or uses pagers.
They used batteries filled with an explosive that would trigger when >>>>>>> temperature rised above some point They could heat your smartphone >>>>>>> battery by hacking or even some sucking website or email.
So be carefull what batteries you use, same for the equipment you >>>>>>> make. Simple heat up test in safety chamber would be a good idea? >>>>>>
sufficiently hot.
They aren't restricted to just a single type of explosive. There are >>>>> detonators that can be set off by a very small increase in temperature >>>>> and a few microgrammes of those would set off a bigger charge of
something more powerful.
Well, maybe. But no one has yet *named* a practical explosive such as
could be used in a pager which explodes when heated. I would like a
specific named substance I can verify does that, because I simply cannot >>>> think of one and am consequently questioning whether one actually exists.
Tetrazene meets your requirements at below the boiling point of water.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tetrazene_explosive
That would be well within the range that a phone battery might reach if
it was deliberately shorted out. I doubt if that was how they did it
though. Nothing like enough black smoke in the videos.
A military grade high explosive seems far more likely for a state actor. >Weight really matters in a portable device.
PETN heated by a laser.
.<https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0010218019304948> >>>
Laser pulse initiation of RDX-Al and PETN-Al composites explosion
But that's not what has been claimed. The MSM gave us to understand
that the explosive involved could be triggered by a the kind of
temperature increase we would expect from an overheating lithium
battery. No one has yet specifically named a practical explosive which
does this. You say PETN can be triggered by heating from a laser which
is not the same thing at all. I like questioning official narratives,
but am getting rather tired of this one. I'm not *that* interested to
pursue the matter ad infinitum.
Given the low internal resistance of a Lithium battery there is no
problem in using a detonator that is in essence a nichrome filament
coated in the right primer and RDX or HMX as the main charge. This was
almost certainly done as a modification of the battery itself and was
cunning enough to have defeated visual inspection by Hamas operatives.
There are plenty of explosives that will detonate at red heat.
I wonder if a tiny fraction of them did not detonate when instructed to
do so or if there are any of them still out in the wild and not in Hamas >hands. They will be interesting if a bit risky to dismantle.
A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli
lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
calculations.
The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
buster bombs.
On 03/10/2024 10:58, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagers
can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries.
TATP being the most notable exception if you don't care about its nasty tendency to explode even when you don't want it to. Not long after it
was first in the news Amazon "helpfully" suggested to me after buying 40
vols H2O2 that "people who bought this also bought acetone" !?
Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagers
can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries.
On 2024-10-03 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
On 03/10/2024 10:58, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagers
can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries.
TATP being the most notable exception if you don't care about its nasty
tendency to explode even when you don't want it to. Not long after it
was first in the news Amazon "helpfully" suggested to me after buying 40
vols H2O2 that "people who bought this also bought acetone" !?
That's why I open Amazon with a different profile, so that they can not
track what I browse.
In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
says...
A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli
lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
calculations.
The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
buster bombs.
I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.
The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They
should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in <MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:
In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
says...
A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli
lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
calculations.
The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
buster bombs.
I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to
firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the
military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.
The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They
should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.
There is only one terrorist
It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!
That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.
even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.
I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.
Most of the world is uniting now against that US.
A trump win may help delay the armageddon but then he wants to attack Iran it seems.
US is a dead joke anyways, millions without power now due to some storm and flooding
HOW LONG did it have to prepare for that??? Not gives no shit for its own people.
All that weapon industry man power could have build a nice infrastructure.
Now California earthquakes are increasing..
Not even a combined nuclear attack by the rest of the world needed to obliterate that
not so united S (S for shit ;-)?
But keep asking
Darwin applies.
No empire lasted forever.
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery ><rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in ><MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:
In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
says...
A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli
lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
calculations.
The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
buster bombs.
I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >>firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >>military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.
The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They >>should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.
There is only one terrorist
It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!
That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.
even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.
I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.
Most of the world is uniting now against that US
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 21:33:54 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." ><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <2683tkxd7t.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:
On 2024-10-03 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
On 03/10/2024 10:58, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagersTATP being the most notable exception if you don't care about its nasty
can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries. >>>
tendency to explode even when you don't want it to. Not long after it
was first in the news Amazon "helpfully" suggested to me after buying 40 >>> vols H2O2 that "people who bought this also bought acetone" !?
That's why I open Amazon with a different profile, so that they can not >>track what I browse.
Are not nukes from China cheaper on ebay?
I had no problem getting the uranium and radium etc etc..
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/PMT_with_radium_in_bag_img_2482.jpg
from:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
On 4/10/2024 4:50 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
<MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:
In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
says...
A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli >>>> lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
calculations.
The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
buster bombs.
I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >>> firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >>> military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.
The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They
should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.
There is only one terrorist
It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!
That's the sort of fatuous conspiracy theory that only Cursitor Doom
would take seriously.
That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.
Hamas massacred 1200 people at a festival. Netanyahu would have found
that hard to organise that as a sales stunt. The Russian invasion of the
Ukraine would have been even harder for Zelensky to organise.
even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.
That's the National Rifle Association - essentially the US hand-gun >manufacturing industry - but they essentially only sell inside the US.
I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.
Sadly, the gun violence in the US isn't at a level where it will deplete >enough of the relevant part of the gene pool to make a difference.
Most of the world is uniting now against that US.
Not that anybody sane has noticed.
A trump win may help delay the armageddon but then he wants to attack Iran it seems.
Trump likes Putin and Kim Jong Un. Neither are positive influences.
Trump's influence might keep them in power longer, but that wouldn't
help peace or prosperity.
US is a dead joke anyways, millions without power now due to some storm and flooding
HOW LONG did it have to prepare for that??? Not gives no shit for its own people.
All that weapon industry man power could have build a nice infrastructure.
It did, but global warming knocked quite a lot of it down.
Now California earthquakes are increasing..
Not enough to worry about.
Not even a combined nuclear attack by the rest of the world needed to obliterate that
not so united S (S for shit ;-)?
But keep asking
Darwin applies.
Not here.
No empire lasted forever.
So far. The US isn't actually an empire, and while their political >arrangements are crude and old-fashioned, they aren't as crude and >old-fashioned as those in force in the historical empires that have
failed, and they do have mechanisms that would let them modernise them.
And more modern political arrangements still tolerate creeps like Geert >Wilders. At least he didn't get to be prime minister.
On a sunny day (Sat, 5 Oct 2024 00:09:42 +1000) it happened Bill Slowbot wrote ><bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <vdosvh$85pg$1@dont-email.me>:
On 4/10/2024 4:50 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery >>> <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
<MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:
In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
says...
A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli >>>>> lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
calculations.
The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker >>>>> buster bombs.
I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >>>> firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >>>> military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there >>>> do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.
The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They >>>> should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles >>>> and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.
There is only one terrorist
It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!
That's the sort of fatuous conspiracy theory that only Cursitor Doom
would take seriously.
You have been brain-washed / code been re-written / to the point where you no longer see what's happening.
That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.
Hamas massacred 1200 people at a festival. Netanyahu would have found
that hard to organise that as a sales stunt. The Russian invasion of the
Years ago the land was taken by force from the Palestinians and others who lived there.
Like the YouAsh did with the Native Americans, now living in reservations >where they then were exposed to nuclear testing for example.
youws in is-a-hell have been pestering and killing and deporting Palestinians for decennia,
ever more provoking them by making new illegal settlements
cutting of sea traffic to Palestine, basically suppressing them and abusing them.
People revolt if you do that, Palestinians never give up.
Ukraine would have been even harder for Zelensky to organise.
YouAss SeeEyeAah has as mission stirring up unrest all over the world
also so their YouAsh minitary industrial tax payer sucking crap products can be sold.
even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.
That's the National Rifle Association - essentially the US hand-gun >>manufacturing industry - but they essentially only sell inside the US.
Not really, in those Carribian islands the rebels are, with help from CIA, using US made weapons.
I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.
Sadly, the gun violence in the US isn't at a level where it will deplete >>enough of the relevant part of the gene pool to make a difference.
It is a side effect, if they can sell to their own people they will,
no matter if it kills them.
Most of the world is uniting now against that US.
Not that anybody sane has noticed.
Well if you only see the teefee down under there, maybe you should buy a new set and a satellite dish.
The media here are censored in a big way.
Assagne like stuff happens when you do real journalism.
A trump win may help delay the armageddon but then he wants to attack Iran it seems.
Trump likes Putin and Kim Jong Un. Neither are positive influences.
Trump's influence might keep them in power longer, but that wouldn't
help peace or prosperity.
Well trump's departure from a criminal US war in Afghanistan was the start of some peace.
The war criminal half sane military complex puppet byethen and his criminal son
took over and days after he visited Putin the war in youcrane picked up again.
US is a dead joke anyways, millions without power now due to some storm and floodingIt did, but global warming knocked quite a lot of it down.
HOW LONG did it have to prepare for that??? Not gives no shit for its own people.
All that weapon industry man power could have build a nice infrastructure. >>
Bull
After the flooding here in the Netherlands the Delta Works were build
No more flooding happened:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delta_Works
Now California earthquakes are increasing..
Not enough to worry about.
Wait until December
Not even a combined nuclear attack by the rest of the world needed to obliterate that
not so united S (S for shit ;-)?
But keep asking
Darwin applies.
Not here.
Well Darwin has been proven true, also down-under or down below and when you are upside down .
No empire lasted forever.
So far. The US isn't actually an empire, and while their political >>arrangements are crude and old-fashioned, they aren't as crude and >>old-fashioned as those in force in the historical empires that have
failed, and they do have mechanisms that would let them modernise them.
And more modern political arrangements still tolerate creeps like Geert >>Wilders. At least he didn't get to be prime minister.
The constant wars by the US make extreme right in Europe ever stronger, look at Germany
it is the _intention_ of the US to weaken Europe the EU, China, any big power, in NATO
to force them to buy crap F35,
Divide and rule is as old as the Romans.
However after Nero playing the fiddle, and Trump twittering it seems history is repeating itself.
History has a habit of ding that
US IQ dropping to an ever lower single digit value...
Its all over now ...
It will - and cannot - recover, greens will take over, all living in grass huts and wigwams
with no transport and no electricity, chasing rats for food..
there is your future.
And then all the fugitives will cross the ocean to Europe and UK.
The dirty war monger YouAsh blew up the North-stream pipeline
I want US to compensate EVERY European who had to pay more for gas for that! >Oil prices are going up again with thread of attack on Iranian oil
US may invade if for imaginary reasone like weapons of mass destruction
like they did invade Iraq and killed Saddam after it got public US had >asked< him to invade Kuwait
THAT's how SeeEyeAAAh works
wake up people, do not be a slave of your criminal 'money is the best thing' >(YouAsh has the largest deficit ever), look for a system that puts PEOPLE's wellbeing first!
Revolt!!
On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 06:56:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 21:33:54 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." >><robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <2683tkxd7t.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:
On 2024-10-03 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
On 03/10/2024 10:58, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
Not all high-explosives are nitrates. I suppose even recent imagersTATP being the most notable exception if you don't care about its nasty >>>> tendency to explode even when you don't want it to. Not long after it
can't be relied upon to distinguish all possible explosive chemistries. >>>>
was first in the news Amazon "helpfully" suggested to me after buying 40 >>>> vols H2O2 that "people who bought this also bought acetone" !?
That's why I open Amazon with a different profile, so that they can not >>>track what I browse.
Are not nukes from China cheaper on ebay?
I had no problem getting the uranium and radium etc etc..
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/PMT_with_radium_in_bag_img_2482.jpg
from:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/
Tritium betalights are cool, but technically illegal in the USA. I buy
them on ebay, shipped from England.
There are still some thorium lamp mantles around for sale.
On 2024-10-03 21:26, Martin Brown wrote:
That's why I open Amazon with a different profile, so that they can not
track what I browse.
The real killer here is Chinese fentanyl.
On 10/4/2024 9:58 AM, john larkin wrote:
The real killer here is Chinese fentanyl.
Fentanyl is only a problem because of the War On Drugs.
A hundred years ago Americans could buy opium and cocaine legally.
Addiction rates per capita were similar to today. To re-quote a tired
old saw, when blah is illegal only criminals will blah. Criminals care
a lot less about quality and consistency and that's where the danger
appears.
If aspirin were invented today the FDA would never approve it for >over-the-counter sale because it's too dangerous. But it is legal; >consequently I can buy a hundred generic aspirin for five bucks and be >confident that each tablet will actually contain 325mg aspirin and no >fentanyl or arsenic. If aspirin were illegal then 100 "street aspirin"
would cost a lot more than $5 and might contain anything.
On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 15:25:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 5 Oct 2024 00:09:42 +1000) it happened Bill Slowbot wrote
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <vdosvh$85pg$1@dont-email.me>:
On 4/10/2024 4:50 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery >>>> <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
<MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:
In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
says...
The dirty war monger YouAsh blew up the North-stream pipelineThis is why it's so important that the US gets Trump back in charge.
I want US to compensate EVERY European who had to pay more for gas for that! >> Oil prices are going up again with thread of attack on Iranian oil
US may invade if for imaginary reasone like weapons of mass destruction
like they did invade Iraq and killed Saddam after it got public US had >asked< him to invade Kuwait
THAT's how SeeEyeAAAh works
wake up people, do not be a slave of your criminal 'money is the best thing' >> (YouAsh has the largest deficit ever), look for a system that puts PEOPLE's wellbeing first!
Revolt! >
He's the only one talking about ending all these foreign wars and the
extreme cost of those adventures in blood and treasure has been close
to ruinious.
One day the bond markets will call time on this insane
spending. The ramping up of US sovereign debt over the last few years
has been off the scale. Trillion dollar deficits! It's madness and
ultimately unsustainable.
On a sunny day (Sat, 5 Oct 2024 00:09:42 +1000) it happened Bill Slowbot wrote
<bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in <vdosvh$85pg$1@dont-email.me>:
On 4/10/2024 4:50 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery >>> <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
<MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:
In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
says...
A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli >>>>> lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
calculations.
The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker >>>>> buster bombs.
I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >>>> firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >>>> military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there >>>> do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.
The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They >>>> should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles >>>> and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.
There is only one terrorist
It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!
That's the sort of fatuous conspiracy theory that only Cursitor Doom
would take seriously.
You have been brain-washed / code been re-written / to the point where you no longer see what's happening.
On Fri, 04 Oct 2024 06:50:25 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 3 Oct 2024 10:33:51 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in
<MPG.4168755c79814aa6989ff1@news.eternal-september.org>:
In article <ga1sfj11p2tpnnqpceqe4f6alv0sm7hkue@4ax.com>, JL@gct.com
says...
A few innocents were hurt or killed in attacking the Hezbolla
terrorists. That's regrettable but longterm probably many more Israeli >>>> lives were saved. Government and warfare both require brutal
calculations.
The pager thing was very target-specific, as opposed to, say, bunker
buster bombs.
I nevr could get a handle on the innocents in a war. Fine for the US to >>> firebomb or nuke Japan and kill thousands of people that were not in the >>> military. But do not kill one or two that are not in the military in
those Arab countries. The way I look at it if the countries over there
do not want the civilians killed get rid of the terrorists.
The Arabs do not really want to fight, just agervate each other. They
should get in an all out war and get it over with. I am almost for
giving each of those countries a couple of short range nuclear missles
and tell them to eiter shoot or shut up.
There is only one terrorist
Yes. Iran.
It is the US making war away from their bed to sell weapons!
That nothanyahoo and shitlensky are sales agents.
even kids shooting each other with automatic guns, even at schools.
That makes news but is rare. Other countries have lunatics using
knives.
The real killer here is Chinese fentanyl.
I am not sure evolution has a place for a species like that.
Most of the world is uniting now against that US
Prowl the world with Street View. Most places now look like a suburb
of Dallas.
And the rim of the USA is a network of people-diodes all pointing in.
And you speak English fairly well.
I was shopping for Japanese gifts in Ngoya. Everything was western.
All the baseball caps were lettered in English, most from US teams.
The clothes were all Levis and tee shirts. I did find one tiny part of
one store that sold Japanese stuff, staffed by one very lonely old
lady.
On Fri, 4 Oct 2024 15:06:26 -0500, Crash Gordon <uucp@crashelex.com>
wrote:
On 10/4/2024 9:58 AM, john larkin wrote:
The real killer here is Chinese fentanyl.
Fentanyl is only a problem because of the War On Drugs.
A hundred years ago Americans could buy opium and cocaine legally.
Addiction rates per capita were similar to today. To re-quote a tired
old saw, when blah is illegal only criminals will blah. Criminals care
a lot less about quality and consistency and that's where the danger
appears.
If aspirin were invented today the FDA would never approve it for
over-the-counter sale because it's too dangerous. But it is legal;
consequently I can buy a hundred generic aspirin for five bucks and be
confident that each tablet will actually contain 325mg aspirin and no
fentanyl or arsenic. If aspirin were illegal then 100 "street aspirin"
would cost a lot more than $5 and might contain anything.
As a Libertarian myself it's become increasingly clear that any
government 'intervention' is frequently a bad thing.
Every time the
government 'declares war' against something, someone or some country,
it typically:
a) achieves nothing or makes things 10X worse, and
b) costs a fortune for the taxpayer with nothing worthwhile to show
for it.
And no lessons ever seem to get learned, either - despite this pattern recurring over and over and over and over again. :(
This is why it's so important that the US gets Trump back in charge.
He's the only one talking about ending all these foreign wars
and the extreme cost of those adventures in blood and treasure has
been close to runious.
On 2024-10-04, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
This is why it's so important that the US gets Trump back in charge.
He's the only one talking about ending all these foreign wars
Talk is cheap, he has a history of not delivering on his promises.
and the extreme cost of those adventures in blood and treasure has
been close to runious.
Really, what is close to ruin? US economy is now stronger that it ever
was under Trump. GOP may be close to ruin, but it seems to be mostly
filled with idiots and grifters.
On Sun, 6 Oct 2024 00:07:44 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:
On 2024-10-04, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
This is why it's so important that the US gets Trump back in charge.
He's the only one talking about ending all these foreign wars
Talk is cheap, he has a history of not delivering on his promises.
At least he doesn't salivate and fake an orgasm when he talks about
war, unlike all the others.
and the extreme cost of those adventures in blood and treasure has
been close to runious.
Really, what is close to ruin? US economy is now stronger that it ever
was under Trump. GOP may be close to ruin, but it seems to be mostly
filled with idiots and grifters.
Close to ruin is when the bond markets force up interest rates for dollar-denominated sovereign debt, forcing government repayments into unsustainable territory and risk of default.
If you believe the US economy is "stronger than it ever was under
Trump" you must be getting your news from CNN or MSNBC/New York Times
or WaPo.
Sysop: | Keyop |
---|---|
Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
Users: | 415 |
Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
Uptime: | 91:49:38 |
Calls: | 8,690 |
Calls today: | 5 |
Files: | 13,250 |
Messages: | 5,946,882 |