• SSR question

    From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Sep 11 20:08:36 2024
    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?

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  • From John Robertson@21:1/5 to john larkin on Wed Sep 11 21:55:57 2024
    On 2024-09-11 8:08 p.m., john larkin wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?


    Sure, there are the TRAIC SSR bricks that take 4 to 32VDC to switch -
    and can handle tens of amps.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/solid-state-relays-ssr/183?s=N4IgTCBcDaIIIGEAEAXATgSwIYGMQF0BfIA

    And also the opto-isolated TRAICs like the MOC302x family from Lite-On.

    Of course you need some power to enable that stuff to run - perhaps a capacitor/resistor driven supply that sucks a tiny amount of current
    from the power line to enable the drive circuit?

    John :-#)#

    --
    (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
    John's Jukes Ltd.
    #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
    (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
    www.flippers.com
    "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to JL@gct.com on Thu Sep 12 06:23:36 2024
    On a sunny day (Wed, 11 Sep 2024 20:08:36 -0700) it happened john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote in <ehm4ejlc33vckjoevn36k5odl9ugnt5sfk@4ax.com>:


    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?

    You mean triacs?
    Opto-triacs?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jrr@flippers.com on Thu Sep 12 06:30:40 2024
    On a sunny day (Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:55:57 -0700) it happened John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote in <vbts8t$33cq$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 2024-09-11 8:08 p.m., john larkin wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?


    Sure, there are the TRAIC SSR bricks that take 4 to 32VDC to switch -
    and can handle tens of amps.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/solid-state-relays-ssr/183?s=N4IgTCBcDaIIIGEAEAXATgSwIYGMQF0BfIA

    And also the opto-isolated TRAICs like the MOC302x family from Lite-On.

    Of course you need some power to enable that stuff to run - perhaps a >capacitor/resistor driven supply that sucks a tiny amount of current
    from the power line to enable the drive circuit?

    Opto-triac, powered from a photo-cell connected to a small coin type battery like for SRAM backup?
    Of course impulse switch, nano amps CMOS D flip flop..

    Have some Microchip PIC single button on/off stuff like that,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Sep 12 07:45:22 2024
    On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:55:57 -0700, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com>
    wrote:

    On 2024-09-11 8:08 p.m., john larkin wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?


    Sure, there are the TRAIC SSR bricks that take 4 to 32VDC to switch -
    and can handle tens of amps.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/solid-state-relays-ssr/183?s=N4IgTCBcDaIIIGEAEAXATgSwIYGMQF0BfIA

    And also the opto-isolated TRAICs like the MOC302x family from Lite-On.

    Of course you need some power to enable that stuff to run - perhaps a >capacitor/resistor driven supply that sucks a tiny amount of current
    from the power line to enable the drive circuit?

    John :-#)#

    Yes, I'd need another isolated ACline power supply to make the drive
    voltage for the SSR.

    The alternative is to do what is common, have a giant power inlet
    block on the back (IEC, emi, fuses, big switch) and run that into my
    24 volt supply, and use the front-panel switch to enable the supply or
    switch its output.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Sep 12 09:35:18 2024
    On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 20:08:36 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:


    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?

    There is a commercial module used by electricians to control a light
    (AC Powered) by opening and closing a reed switch actuated by a magnet installed in the top edge of a closet door. I have one in my house.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Pimpom@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Sep 13 00:23:35 2024
    On 12-09-2024 08:38 am, john larkin wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?

    There should be several models to choose from. I used them in the early
    90s in a limited production - a few hundred units - for the state power
    agency here when they needed some automated sequence switching. They
    work fine as long as the higher leakage compared to mechanical switches
    doesn't matter. For low power, I've used the cute TO-66 style models.

    Then there are the MOC30xx opto-coupled triac drivers. I used several of
    those in a one-off product for the state racing association.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Sep 12 20:09:31 2024
    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?



    I think Piotr Wyderski posted a cool looking circuit using a small hf pulse transformer as isolation and coupling. Shorting the isolated LV side loaded
    or stopped an oscillator or something.

    The 1960s GE SCR manual showed ways to do that too but using 50/60Hz transformers which are now not cost effective.

    --
    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Chris Jones@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Sep 13 21:17:02 2024
    On 13/09/2024 12:45 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:55:57 -0700, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com>
    wrote:

    On 2024-09-11 8:08 p.m., john larkin wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?


    Sure, there are the TRAIC SSR bricks that take 4 to 32VDC to switch -
    and can handle tens of amps.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/solid-state-relays-ssr/183?s=N4IgTCBcDaIIIGEAEAXATgSwIYGMQF0BfIA

    And also the opto-isolated TRAICs like the MOC302x family from Lite-On.

    Of course you need some power to enable that stuff to run - perhaps a
    capacitor/resistor driven supply that sucks a tiny amount of current
    from the power line to enable the drive circuit?

    John :-#)#

    Yes, I'd need another isolated ACline power supply to make the drive
    voltage for the SSR.

    The alternative is to do what is common, have a giant power inlet
    block on the back (IEC, emi, fuses, big switch) and run that into my
    24 volt supply, and use the front-panel switch to enable the supply or
    switch its output.


    You could use a little generator - the EnOcean wireless wall switches do
    that to avoid using a battery. When you press it, the mechanical energy
    from your finger powers a tiny generator and powers the transmitter
    (either Bluetooth or another standard).

    If someone would package just the button part that does the generating,
    leaving off the radio, it might well make enough power to turn on a SSR
    for a cycle or two, which could then power the thing up properly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com on Fri Sep 13 09:14:59 2024
    On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 21:17:02 +1000, Chris Jones
    <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 13/09/2024 12:45 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:55:57 -0700, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com>
    wrote:

    On 2024-09-11 8:08 p.m., john larkin wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?


    Sure, there are the TRAIC SSR bricks that take 4 to 32VDC to switch -
    and can handle tens of amps.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/solid-state-relays-ssr/183?s=N4IgTCBcDaIIIGEAEAXATgSwIYGMQF0BfIA

    And also the opto-isolated TRAICs like the MOC302x family from Lite-On.

    Of course you need some power to enable that stuff to run - perhaps a
    capacitor/resistor driven supply that sucks a tiny amount of current >>>from the power line to enable the drive circuit?

    John :-#)#

    Yes, I'd need another isolated ACline power supply to make the drive
    voltage for the SSR.

    The alternative is to do what is common, have a giant power inlet
    block on the back (IEC, emi, fuses, big switch) and run that into my
    24 volt supply, and use the front-panel switch to enable the supply or
    switch its output.


    You could use a little generator - the EnOcean wireless wall switches do
    that to avoid using a battery. When you press it, the mechanical energy
    from your finger powers a tiny generator and powers the transmitter
    (either Bluetooth or another standard).

    If someone would package just the button part that does the generating, >leaving off the radio, it might well make enough power to turn on a SSR
    for a cycle or two, which could then power the thing up properly.



    Reminds me of an old telephone ringer magneto that I had as a kid. It
    packed a pretty good shock.

    How about a stepper motor with a knob? They make good generators.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to erichpwagner@hotmail.com on Fri Sep 13 10:47:25 2024
    On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 20:09:31 -0000 (UTC), piglet
    <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?



    I think Piotr Wyderski posted a cool looking circuit using a small hf pulse >transformer as isolation and coupling. Shorting the isolated LV side loaded >or stopped an oscillator or something.

    The 1960s GE SCR manual showed ways to do that too but using 50/60Hz >transformers which are now not cost effective.

    Some people sell a small potted PCB-mount brick that's an AC-line
    powered power supply. But I'd have to design a PCB and run line
    voltage into it.

    Some biggish universal-input metal-box power supplies have a
    contact-closure enable input. May as well use one of those, even
    thought I only need a few watts.

    The product is a high-voltage pulse generator, probably a detonator or something. We don't know.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Klaus Vestergaard Kragelund@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Sep 14 02:53:38 2024
    On 13-09-2024 19:47, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 12 Sep 2024 20:09:31 -0000 (UTC), piglet
    <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:

    john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?



    I think Piotr Wyderski posted a cool looking circuit using a small hf pulse >> transformer as isolation and coupling. Shorting the isolated LV side loaded >> or stopped an oscillator or something.

    The 1960s GE SCR manual showed ways to do that too but using 50/60Hz
    transformers which are now not cost effective.

    Some people sell a small potted PCB-mount brick that's an AC-line
    powered power supply. But I'd have to design a PCB and run line
    voltage into it.

    Some biggish universal-input metal-box power supplies have a
    contact-closure enable input. May as well use one of those, even
    thought I only need a few watts.

    The product is a high-voltage pulse generator, probably a detonator or something. We don't know.



    One thing to look out for, is the robustness against spurious turn-on
    (add snubber).

    Also, if you draw more than just low power, look out for the zero
    crossing distortion. That might result in failing to comply with
    conducted emission tests.

    I did a design on a 650W heater with several outputs, and in that one we
    had to roll our own driver, to make sure the Triacs was kept on during
    the zero crossing. One design implementation had back to back FETs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Sep 13 22:32:16 2024
    On 9/12/2024 10:45 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:55:57 -0700, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com>
    wrote:

    On 2024-09-11 8:08 p.m., john larkin wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a
    small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?


    Sure, there are the TRAIC SSR bricks that take 4 to 32VDC to switch -
    and can handle tens of amps.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/solid-state-relays-ssr/183?s=N4IgTCBcDaIIIGEAEAXATgSwIYGMQF0BfIA

    And also the opto-isolated TRAICs like the MOC302x family from Lite-On.

    Of course you need some power to enable that stuff to run - perhaps a
    capacitor/resistor driven supply that sucks a tiny amount of current
    from the power line to enable the drive circuit?

    John :-#)#

    Yes, I'd need another isolated ACline power supply to make the drive
    voltage for the SSR.

    The alternative is to do what is common, have a giant power inlet
    block on the back (IEC, emi, fuses, big switch) and run that into my
    24 volt supply, and use the front-panel switch to enable the supply or
    switch its output.


    The mechanical solution used in a number of older HP test equipment
    pieces (and probably some other stuff) is put the switch set back on the
    main PCB and the front panel switch connects to a long plastic rod which
    pushes it indirectly.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to john larkin on Fri Sep 13 19:25:42 2024
    On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 09:14:59 -0700, john larkin <JL@gct.com> wrote:

    On Fri, 13 Sep 2024 21:17:02 +1000, Chris Jones
    <lugnut808@spam.yahoo.com> wrote:

    On 13/09/2024 12:45 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 11 Sep 2024 21:55:57 -0700, John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com>
    wrote:

    On 2024-09-11 8:08 p.m., john larkin wrote:

    Given a power supply that needs 120 volts AC input, I'd like to use a >>>>> small front-panel power switch at some low voltage, not run the AC
    line up to the front panel.

    Do people make SSRs that would do that, accept a low-voltage switch
    closure to switch AC?


    Sure, there are the TRAIC SSR bricks that take 4 to 32VDC to switch -
    and can handle tens of amps.

    https://www.digikey.ca/en/products/filter/solid-state-relays-ssr/183?s=N4IgTCBcDaIIIGEAEAXATgSwIYGMQF0BfIA

    And also the opto-isolated TRAICs like the MOC302x family from Lite-On. >>>>
    Of course you need some power to enable that stuff to run - perhaps a
    capacitor/resistor driven supply that sucks a tiny amount of current >>>>from the power line to enable the drive circuit?

    John :-#)#

    Yes, I'd need another isolated ACline power supply to make the drive
    voltage for the SSR.

    The alternative is to do what is common, have a giant power inlet
    block on the back (IEC, emi, fuses, big switch) and run that into my
    24 volt supply, and use the front-panel switch to enable the supply or
    switch its output.


    You could use a little generator - the EnOcean wireless wall switches do >>that to avoid using a battery. When you press it, the mechanical energy >>from your finger powers a tiny generator and powers the transmitter
    (either Bluetooth or another standard).

    If someone would package just the button part that does the generating, >>leaving off the radio, it might well make enough power to turn on a SSR
    for a cycle or two, which could then power the thing up properly.



    Reminds me of an old telephone ringer magneto that I had as a kid. It
    packed a pretty good shock.

    How about a stepper motor with a knob? They make good generators.

    Two windings of a stepper could be combined to make a positive voltage
    when spun clockwise and negative if spun CCW. That can drive a
    single-coil latching relay.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)