I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
"john larkin" <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in message news:6u4mdjt3d32biaavd02a2cfebsgtd5kapa@4ax.com...
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
If they can't visualise (or visualize if you prefer), then, if I may invent a few new words, can they hearalise? smellalise?
touchalise? tastealise?
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike
his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could
visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike
his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
If they can't visualise (or visualize if you prefer), then, if I may invent a few new words, can they hearalise? smellalise?
touchalise? tastealise?
On 9/6/2024 8:42 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:
If they can't visualise (or visualize if you prefer), then, if I may invent a few new words, can they hearalise? smellalise?
touchalise? tastealise?
Of course! How do you think a musician looks at a piece of sheet music
and figures out what it's *supposed* to sound like?
Or, the pronunciation
for a word in a dictionary and know what it will sound like?
How do you think a baker/chef/bartender assembles ingredients with an expectation of what it will *taste* like?
Don't you conjure an "image" when someone talks about "burning sulfur"?
Or, "vanilla"?
Can't you imagine what a piece of silk feels like? Sandpaper? Grease?
Baloney. I don't think I really visualize things. I don't see things floating in front of me.
I feel it. Sort of like closing your eyes and feeling an object in
your hand. I know it from all angles, its insides and outsides, its texture, its solidity, its weight... It's kind of the sculptor versus the painter but that is the information a good painter is getting across in his painting. I don't
have problems with 3D puzzles. In high school, I had study class with the teacher
who taught remedial students. One day there were all these 3D puzzles out that
they used to test these kids cognitive ability. I walked over and solved them all
in a couple of minutes. I didn't realize I had done anything special. I thought
I just played with the toys. Until I turned around and saw the teacher staring at
me. A couple of them no one had been able to solve.
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and >>>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares >>painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney. I don't think I really visualize things. I don't see things floating in front of me.
I feel it. Sort of like closing your eyes and feeling an object in
your hand. I know it from all angles, its insides and outsides, its texture, its solidity, its weight... It's kind of the sculptor versus the painter but that is the information a good painter is getting across in his painting. I don't
have problems with 3D puzzles. In high school, I had study class with the teacher
who taught remedial students. One day there were all these 3D puzzles out that
they used to test these kids cognitive ability. I walked over and solved them all
in a couple of minutes. I didn't realize I had done anything special. I thought
I just played with the toys. Until I turned around and saw the teacher staring at
me. A couple of them no one had been able to solve.
I think the issue there is what it means to visualize.
I can temporarily replace the image of this computer screen with an image of an apple on a plate.
I can even make the apple lift off the plate if I want.
Obviously none of this is happening in front of me.
There has been no change in what's in front of me and what's in front of me is still being processed (you might say unconsciously).
I know this because I know I can safely drive a car while imagining floating apples.
How do you think a baker/chef/bartender assembles ingredients with an
expectation of what it will *taste* like?
From their experience of doing it previously.
Don't you conjure an "image" when someone talks about "burning sulfur"?
Or, "vanilla"?
I can if I want.
Can't you imagine what a piece of silk feels like? Sandpaper? Grease?
Sure I can. Was there a question here?
On 9/6/2024 11:47 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:
How do you think a baker/chef/bartender assembles ingredients with an
expectation of what it will *taste* like?
From their experience of doing it previously.
That's a non-answer and suggests that they had made *that* concoction previously.
Rather, when you "make something new", you are relying on what each of
the ingredients separately brings to the result (OTHER, previously encountered results) and weigh whether or not you want some portion
of that to be present in your new creation.
Potatoes have a different taste/texture than rice. Which (if any) do you want in this dish?
Buttermilk has a different taste than heavy cream. Which do you want
this gelato to use as its base?
Don't you conjure an "image" when someone talks about "burning sulfur"?
Or, "vanilla"?
I can if I want.
I think the point is that most people do this instinctively. If they
want to *savor* a memory of a scent (or flavor or imagery or...)
then they may put extra effort into recalling it WITHOUT distraction.
Can't you imagine what a piece of silk feels like? Sandpaper? Grease?
Sure I can. Was there a question here?
You wondered if people could "feelize", etc. I find it hard to imagine
that folks could NOT imagine what silk, sandpaper, grease feels like.
On 9/6/2024 11:56 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:
I think the issue there is what it means to visualize.
I can temporarily replace the image of this computer screen with an image of an apple on a plate.
I can even make the apple lift off the plate if I want.
Obviously none of this is happening in front of me.
There has been no change in what's in front of me and what's in front of me is still being processed (you might say
unconsciously).
I know this because I know I can safely drive a car while imagining floating apples.
I think that is too literal an interpretation.
Or, one should replace "visualize" with "imagine" as a more generic term
as it isn't as literally tied to a visual representation.
One can *imagine* what it's like to be in the elevator when someone *farts*!
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that
springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike
his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could
visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and >>>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares >>painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney.
"Don Y" <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote in message news:vbfjh5$tlhp$5@dont-email.me...
On 9/6/2024 11:56 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:
I think the issue there is what it means to visualize.
I can temporarily replace the image of this computer screen with an image of an apple on a plate.
I can even make the apple lift off the plate if I want.
Obviously none of this is happening in front of me.
There has been no change in what's in front of me and what's in front of me is still being processed (you might say
unconsciously).
I know this because I know I can safely drive a car while imagining floating apples.
I think that is too literal an interpretation.
Or, one should replace "visualize" with "imagine" as a more generic term
as it isn't as literally tied to a visual representation.
One can *imagine* what it's like to be in the elevator when someone *farts*! >>
So perhaps some people have no imagination.
I find it hard to believe that that can be literally true but maybe it can for some people.
On 9/6/2024 11:56 AM, Edward Rawde wrote:
I think the issue there is what it means to visualize.
I can temporarily replace the image of this computer screen with an image of an apple on a plate.
I can even make the apple lift off the plate if I want.
Obviously none of this is happening in front of me.
There has been no change in what's in front of me and what's in front of me is still being processed (you might say unconsciously).
I know this because I know I can safely drive a car while imagining floating apples.
I think that is too literal an interpretation.
Or, one should replace "visualize" with "imagine" as a more generic term
as it isn't as literally tied to a visual representation.
On 9/6/24 08:59, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>The Air Force recruiting people had some sort of "pattern test" in
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that
springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike
his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could
visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for
example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
addition to other stuff, back in 1960-something. At least for people
wanting to go into electronics school.
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike
his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
There is another kind of visualization that is very common and quite
useful: Most people who take an internal combustion engine apart and reassembles it can diagnose mechanical problems from the sound made by
the engine as a vehicle drives past - one can "see" the moving parts
as they are making the noise in that engine. Most auto mechanics can
do this, and so can I.
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 01:30:24, Wanderer<dont@emailme.com> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights.
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time. >Apparently that’s most people.
But then again, none of us knows what it’s like to be somebody else.
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike
his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights.
He happens to be right. The idea was invented in France in 1904 and used
to sort educationally sub-normal kids so that they got the kid of
educational help that they needed and could get some advantage out of.
On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in ><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time. >>Apparently that’s most people.
I never had that.
I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
In article <vbgm7r$16mcv$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says...
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights.
He happens to be right. The idea was invented in France in 1904 and used
to sort educationally sub-normal kids so that they got the kid of
educational help that they needed and could get some advantage out of.
I wish that school when I went had a way to educate children in what
they were interested in. I was great in math and science but could not >remember the people's named or dates in history and did very poor in
English. I did go to two sumers of what was called enrichment studies
where we did not get graded but was exposed to many things that came in
hand in later life such as speed reading and general information about
other countries and some science. I really enjoyed those two years. The
ones in that program were ones that seemed to be at the top of the
school class.
On a sunny day (Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <eq8mdjd7lohm9rglsdc7rgi5i7nbde1co1@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and >>>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares >>painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
I was tested for the draft here and immediately assigned to the air force. >But did not have to serve as there was a law here 'eldest son breadwinner'. >But sure enough my first job was designing stuff for the telcos, army and navy,
so wound up there anyways and worked on those navy ships, dangerous...
On a sunny day (Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <6u4mdjt3d32biaavd02a2cfebsgtd5kapa@4ax.com>:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
Sure on problem, on my table there also is a small glass jar with some apple juice and a foil top with small holes
and many insects caught in it:
https://www.countryliving.com/home-maintenance/cleaning/a45085435/fruit-fly-traps-indoors-diy/
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time. Apparently that’s most people.
But then again, none of us knows what it’s like to be somebody else.
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and >>>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares >>painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
It was. Staring in WW1, when there were millions of new recruits to
sort into jobs.
There is another kind of visualization that is very common and quite
useful: Most people who take an internal combustion engine apart and >reassembles it can diagnose mechanical problems from the sound made by
the engine as a vehicle drives past - one can "see" the moving parts
as they are making the noise in that engine. Most auto mechanics can
do this, and so can I.
As for the EE who went into History, the usual path for people who
cannot visualize is Mathematics. But even that benefits from
visualization.
My father was a degreed aeronautical engineer. But he really didn't >visualize things like auto engines and cooling systems at all
specialty was theory, and aeronautical engineering has far more
complex math than EE.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier%E2%80%93Stokes_equations>
Plus lots of classical physics. I never asked him if he could
visualize fluid flow from the math, but I bet he could.
Joe Gwinn
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 10:03:51 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:
In article <vbgm7r$16mcv$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says...
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights.
He happens to be right. The idea was invented in France in 1904 and used >>> to sort educationally sub-normal kids so that they got the kid of
educational help that they needed and could get some advantage out of.
I wish that school when I went had a way to educate children in what
they were interested in. I was great in math and science but could not
remember the people's named or dates in history and did very poor in
English. I did go to two sumers of what was called enrichment studies
where we did not get graded but was exposed to many things that came in
hand in later life such as speed reading and general information about
other countries and some science. I really enjoyed those two years. The
ones in that program were ones that seemed to be at the top of the
school class.
I went to one of the first fw "magnet" schools in the USA, with IQ and achievment tests to get in and they required minimum grades (72
average) to stay in.
The freshman washout rate was about 20%.
I was great at math and science, terrible at English, and basically
helpless in French.
I know for a fact that the staff met and fudged grades to retain the
kids with asymmetric talents.
It's tragic to force kids to do things they can't, and tell someone
that they are a failure because that don't understand the symbolism in
Moby Dick, when they could be dynamite engineers or airplane
mechanics.
On 06/09/2024 16:08, Phil Hobbs wrote:
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
There is also visual recall of something you have seen which is slightly >different. Eidetic memory is the most extreme form.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eidetic_memory
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
I have always assumed that most people can do it to some extent. The
next level up is being able to look at something (or imagine it) and
then carve it or construct one in 3D. Very few people can do that.
Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time.
Apparently that’s most people.
Using visual memory is one way to beat a classic Alzheimer's test by >imagining an apple, balanced on a ball sat on a chair. It doesn't seem
to suffer the same degradation as normal short term abstract memory.
But then again, none of us knows what it’s like to be somebody else.
Indeed. The people who I admire the most are composers who can image
roughly what an entire orchestra will sound like playing their newly
written score. That takes an incredible amount of aural imagining.
We also have no way of knowing if what I experience for red colour is
the same as what you see for red. Some colour blind people really do see
the world differently (most common red-green colour blindness). But the
ones with slightly extended near IR vision through 4 types of cones had >advantages in warfare since they can distinguish growing vegetation from
cut and dying vegetation that has been used for camouflage.
I was great at math and science, terrible at english, and basically
helpless in French.
I know for a fact that the staff met and fudged grades to retain the
kids with asymmetric talents.
It's tragic to force kids to do things they can't, and tell someone
that they are a failure because that don't understand the symbolism in
Moby Dick, when they could be dynamite engineers or airplane
mechanics.
In article <2hpodj9tc92k0l94amlhb58uoo2khg8b3n@4ax.com>, john larkin
says...
I was great at math and science, terrible at english, and basically
helpless in French.
I know for a fact that the staff met and fudged grades to retain the
kids with asymmetric talents.
It's tragic to force kids to do things they can't, and tell someone
that they are a failure because that don't understand the symbolism in
Moby Dick, when they could be dynamite engineers or airplane
mechanics.
You sound like me. I tried French and Spanish and just barely got by.
In jr high I wanted to play the drums but there were 4 others that had
some previous training. I then mentioned another instrument but could
not play it due to having braces and could no blow correctly. I was
forced to take up an instrument for 2 ears that I really hated but got
by. Gave it up in high school as we did not have to take band or
chorus.
The band was more interested in putting on a good show instead of
actually teaching.
I went to a tech school and did well.We had an english course or two but
it was to teach technical writing and public speaking no reading of
novels that I had no interest in.
On 8/09/2024 12:50 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 10:03:51 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:
In article <vbgm7r$16mcv$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says... >>>>
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights.
He happens to be right. The idea was invented in France in 1904 and used >>>> to sort educationally sub-normal kids so that they got the kid of
educational help that they needed and could get some advantage out of. >>>>
I wish that school when I went had a way to educate children in what
they were interested in. I was great in math and science but could not
remember the people's named or dates in history and did very poor in
English. I did go to two sumers of what was called enrichment studies
where we did not get graded but was exposed to many things that came in
hand in later life such as speed reading and general information about
other countries and some science. I really enjoyed those two years. The >>> ones in that program were ones that seemed to be at the top of the
school class.
I went to one of the first fw "magnet" schools in the USA, with IQ and
achievment tests to get in and they required minimum grades (72
average) to stay in.
The freshman washout rate was about 20%.
I was great at math and science, terrible at English, and basically
helpless in French.
But you can make yourself understood here, which doesn't entirely work
to your advantage.
Your English expression is fine, but what you have to
express is somehwat superficial.
I wish that school when I went had a way to educate children in what
they were interested in.
I was great in math and science but could not
remember the people's named or dates in history and did very poor in
English.
I did go to two sumers of what was called enrichment studies
where we did not get graded but was exposed to many things that came in
hand in later life such as speed reading and general information about
other countries and some science. I really enjoyed those two years. The
ones in that program were ones that seemed to be at the top of the
school class.
I suppose that being nearsighted has social-evolutionary advantages.
Some people shoot arrows, some people make arrows.
There is also visual recall of something you have seen which is slightly different. Eidetic memory is the most extreme form.
You sound like me. I tried French and Spanish and just barely got by.
In jr high I wanted to play the drums but there were 4 others that had
some previous training. I then mentioned another instrument but could
not play it due to having braces and could no blow correctly. I was
forced to take up an instrument for 2 ears that I really hated but got
by. Gave it up in high school as we did not have to take band or
chorus.
The band was more interested in putting on a good show instead of
actually teaching.
I went to a tech school and did well.We had an english course or two but
it was to teach technical writing and public speaking no reading of
novels that I had no interest in.
On 9/6/24 7:53 AM, john larkin wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Many may just have never tried hard enough. In their dreams almost all
people do though.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
Yesterday I did a bike ride with the guys. Very hot weather and half way >through the ride I had this image in my head of a large stein of
Pilsener, with foam and with the condensation water dripping down the
outside of the glass. It gave me a lot of extra punch to get to the
brewpub faster.
<https://cameradobrewing.com/our-beers>
Often Dan or Kate already start pouring a Pilsener when they see me
rolling up on the road bike.
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 19:21:31 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked >>>>>him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people >>>>>who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in >>>>the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and >>>>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>>his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was >>>>crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>>>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>>example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine >>>Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares >>>painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
It was. Staring in WW1, when there were millions of new recruits to
sort into jobs.
There is another kind of visualization that is very common and quite >>useful: Most people who take an internal combustion engine apart and >>reassembles it can diagnose mechanical problems from the sound made by
the engine as a vehicle drives past - one can "see" the moving parts
as they are making the noise in that engine. Most auto mechanics can
do this, and so can I.
As for the EE who went into History, the usual path for people who
cannot visualize is Mathematics. But even that benefits from >>visualization.
My father was a degreed aeronautical engineer. But he really didn't >>visualize things like auto engines and cooling systems at all
specialty was theory, and aeronautical engineering has far more
complex math than EE.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier%E2%80%93Stokes_equations>
Plus lots of classical physics. I never asked him if he could
visualize fluid flow from the math, but I bet he could.
Joe Gwinn
Some people can "see" equations flow. Probably Phil can.
I can visualize a circuit and see the voltages and the current flowing >around, but that falls apart at any great complexity, and I can
forget, so it helps to scribble the ideas in a bedside notebook.
Some look great in the morning and some really don't.
Some ideas happen in the shower so they are harder to scribble down. I
recall that someone once sold a waterproof sketch kit or whiteboard or >something.
On 07/09/2024 17:07, john larkin wrote:
I suppose that being nearsighted has social-evolutionary advantages.
Some people shoot arrows, some people make arrows.
Having extreme visual acuity was highly prized back in the days before
there were optical aids. Roman centurions had an eye test for lookouts
based on splitting the close double epsilon Lyra (which is at the limit
3' arc of the human eye). I could do it when I was younger.
A very small number of children and young adults can see the Galilean
moons of Jupiter at greatest extension from the planet (a feat that most people need a telescope or binoculars for hence Galileo's discovery).
Seeing them against the planet's glare requires both good optical figure
lens and very clear fluid gel in the eyeball.
Splitting Alcor & Mizar in the plough is easy by comparison (anyone with 20/20 vision should be able to do that). Ancients used it that way too.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mizar_and_Alcor
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that
springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike
his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could
visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for
example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
It was. Staring in WW1, when there were millions of new recruits to
sort into jobs.
There is another kind of visualization that is very common and quite
useful: Most people who take an internal combustion engine apart and reassembles it can diagnose mechanical problems from the sound made by
the engine as a vehicle drives past - one can "see" the moving parts
as they are making the noise in that engine. Most auto mechanics can
do this, and so can I.
As for the EE who went into History, the usual path for people who
cannot visualize is Mathematics. But even that benefits from
visualization.
My father was a degreed aeronautical engineer. But he really didn't visualize things like auto engines and cooling systems at all
specialty was theory, and aeronautical engineering has far more
complex math than EE.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier%E2%80%93Stokes_equations>
Plus lots of classical physics. I never asked him if he could
visualize fluid flow from the math, but I bet he could.
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 08:38:27 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 19:21:31 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked >>>>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>>> visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people >>>>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>>> springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in >>>>> the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>>> his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could
visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>>> example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
It was. Staring in WW1, when there were millions of new recruits to
sort into jobs.
There is another kind of visualization that is very common and quite
useful: Most people who take an internal combustion engine apart and
reassembles it can diagnose mechanical problems from the sound made by
the engine as a vehicle drives past - one can "see" the moving parts
as they are making the noise in that engine. Most auto mechanics can
do this, and so can I.
As for the EE who went into History, the usual path for people who
cannot visualize is Mathematics. But even that benefits from
visualization.
My father was a degreed aeronautical engineer. But he really didn't
visualize things like auto engines and cooling systems at all
specialty was theory, and aeronautical engineering has far more
complex math than EE.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier%E2%80%93Stokes_equations>
Plus lots of classical physics. I never asked him if he could
visualize fluid flow from the math, but I bet he could.
Joe Gwinn
Some people can "see" equations flow. Probably Phil can.
I can visualize a circuit and see the voltages and the current flowing
around, but that falls apart at any great complexity, and I can
forget, so it helps to scribble the ideas in a bedside notebook.
Some look great in the morning and some really don't.
Some ideas happen in the shower so they are harder to scribble down. I
recall that someone once sold a waterproof sketch kit or whiteboard or
something.
Space Pen and waterproof surveyor's field notebook?
.<https://www.kokuyostore.com/en_US/field-notebook-waterproof-type/SE-Y11.html>
Waterproof markers are also used. Many will write underwater.
Joe Gwinn
d
On 2024-09-06 19:21, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>> visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>> springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in
the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>> his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could
visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for
example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
It was. Staring in WW1, when there were millions of new recruits to
sort into jobs.
There is another kind of visualization that is very common and quite
useful: Most people who take an internal combustion engine apart and
reassembles it can diagnose mechanical problems from the sound made by
the engine as a vehicle drives past - one can "see" the moving parts
as they are making the noise in that engine. Most auto mechanics can
do this, and so can I.
So can I, as long as it's rod knock or a hard miss. ;)
Telling a plugged cat from clogged injectors from retarded timing, not
so much.
I've taken two engines apart to varying degrees. One was a complete
rebuild (oversize pistons, align bore, half-race cam) of a 1973 Fiat.(*)
The other one was a 1978 Triumph that needed a head gasket. It was a
lot easier back when you could open the hood and see at least a bit of >pavement.
As for the EE who went into History, the usual path for people who
cannot visualize is Mathematics. But even that benefits from
visualization.
My father was a degreed aeronautical engineer. But he really didn't
visualize things like auto engines and cooling systems at all
specialty was theory, and aeronautical engineering has far more
complex math than EE.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier%E2%80%93Stokes_equations>
Plus lots of classical physics. I never asked him if he could
visualize fluid flow from the math, but I bet he could.
And the Navier-Stokes equations are for incompressible flow, which is
only the first-order model for aeronautics. (Jet engines need >thermodynamics, which N-S doesn't do.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
(*) No, it wasn't the good one, i.e. the 124 Spyder--it was a 1100 cc
Model 128 sedan. Yes, that's completely stupid, but hey, I was 18, so
cut me some slack. Nowadays my stupidity comes out in far more
sophisticated forms. ;)
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 18:50:40 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
d
On 2024-09-06 19:21, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked >>>>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>>> visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people >>>>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>>> springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in >>>>> the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>>> his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could
visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>>> example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine
Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares
painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
It was. Staring in WW1, when there were millions of new recruits to
sort into jobs.
There is another kind of visualization that is very common and quite
useful: Most people who take an internal combustion engine apart and
reassembles it can diagnose mechanical problems from the sound made by
the engine as a vehicle drives past - one can "see" the moving parts
as they are making the noise in that engine. Most auto mechanics can
do this, and so can I.
So can I, as long as it's rod knock or a hard miss. ;)
Telling a plugged cat from clogged injectors from retarded timing, not
so much.
I've taken two engines apart to varying degrees. One was a complete
rebuild (oversize pistons, align bore, half-race cam) of a 1973 Fiat.(*)
The other one was a 1978 Triumph that needed a head gasket. It was a
lot easier back when you could open the hood and see at least a bit of
pavement.
As for the EE who went into History, the usual path for people who
cannot visualize is Mathematics. But even that benefits from
visualization.
My father was a degreed aeronautical engineer. But he really didn't
visualize things like auto engines and cooling systems at all
specialty was theory, and aeronautical engineering has far more
complex math than EE.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier%E2%80%93Stokes_equations>
Plus lots of classical physics. I never asked him if he could
visualize fluid flow from the math, but I bet he could.
And the Navier-Stokes equations are for incompressible flow, which is
only the first-order model for aeronautics. (Jet engines need
thermodynamics, which N-S doesn't do.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
(*) No, it wasn't the good one, i.e. the 124 Spyder--it was a 1100 cc
Model 128 sedan. Yes, that's completely stupid, but hey, I was 18, so
cut me some slack. Nowadays my stupidity comes out in far more
sophisticated forms. ;)
You want stupid? I had an Austin-Healy Sprite, it got crushed between
two giant American uglies, so I took the insurance money and bought a
new MG Midget.
Here is is now:
https://adrianruyle.com/3-d-art/art-cars/mg-3/
https://adrianruyle.com/3-d-art/art-cars/mgdoor/
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 18:50:40 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
d
On 2024-09-06 19:21, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked >>>>>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>>>> visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people >>>>>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>>>> springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in >>>>>> the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and
discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>>>> his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was
crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>>>>> visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>>>> example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to >>>>> be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine >>>>> Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares >>>>> painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful >>>>> to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
It was. Staring in WW1, when there were millions of new recruits to
sort into jobs.
There is another kind of visualization that is very common and quite
useful: Most people who take an internal combustion engine apart and
reassembles it can diagnose mechanical problems from the sound made by >>>> the engine as a vehicle drives past - one can "see" the moving parts
as they are making the noise in that engine. Most auto mechanics can
do this, and so can I.
So can I, as long as it's rod knock or a hard miss. ;)
Telling a plugged cat from clogged injectors from retarded timing, not
so much.
I've taken two engines apart to varying degrees. One was a complete
rebuild (oversize pistons, align bore, half-race cam) of a 1973 Fiat.(*) >>>
The other one was a 1978 Triumph that needed a head gasket. It was a
lot easier back when you could open the hood and see at least a bit of
pavement.
As for the EE who went into History, the usual path for people who
cannot visualize is Mathematics. But even that benefits from
visualization.
My father was a degreed aeronautical engineer. But he really didn't
visualize things like auto engines and cooling systems at all
specialty was theory, and aeronautical engineering has far more
complex math than EE.
.<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navier%E2%80%93Stokes_equations>
Plus lots of classical physics. I never asked him if he could
visualize fluid flow from the math, but I bet he could.
And the Navier-Stokes equations are for incompressible flow, which is
only the first-order model for aeronautics. (Jet engines need
thermodynamics, which N-S doesn't do.)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
(*) No, it wasn't the good one, i.e. the 124 Spyder--it was a 1100 cc
Model 128 sedan. Yes, that's completely stupid, but hey, I was 18, so
cut me some slack. Nowadays my stupidity comes out in far more
sophisticated forms. ;)
You want stupid? I had an Austin-Healy Sprite, it got crushed between
two giant American uglies, so I took the insurance money and bought a
new MG Midget.
Here is is now:
https://adrianruyle.com/3-d-art/art-cars/mg-3/
https://adrianruyle.com/3-d-art/art-cars/mgdoor/
Well, at least you both more or less survived. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:29:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700) it happened john larkin >><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <eq8mdjd7lohm9rglsdc7rgi5i7nbde1co1@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked >>>>>him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people >>>>>who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in >>>>the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and >>>>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>>his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was >>>>crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>>>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization
thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>>example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to
be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine >>>Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares >>>painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
I was tested for the draft here and immediately assigned to the air force. >>But did not have to serve as there was a law here 'eldest son breadwinner'. >>But sure enough my first job was designing stuff for the telcos, army and navy,
so wound up there anyways and worked on those navy ships, dangerous...
I used to work on ships, designing control systems and for a while
going out and maintaining them.
The steam plants were especially dangerous. A welded pipe joint might
leak an invisible jet that would cut you in half. The crew would test
a joint by waving a broomstick around it, and see if the end would
be sliced off and fall to the deck.
On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 01:46:45 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 8/09/2024 12:50 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 10:03:51 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:
In article <vbgm7r$16mcv$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says... >>>>>
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights.
He happens to be right. The idea was invented in France in 1904 and used >>>>> to sort educationally sub-normal kids so that they got the kid of
educational help that they needed and could get some advantage out of. >>>>>
I wish that school when I went had a way to educate children in what
they were interested in. I was great in math and science but could not >>>> remember the people's named or dates in history and did very poor in
English. I did go to two sumers of what was called enrichment studies >>>> where we did not get graded but was exposed to many things that came in >>>> hand in later life such as speed reading and general information about >>>> other countries and some science. I really enjoyed those two years. The >>>> ones in that program were ones that seemed to be at the top of the
school class.
I went to one of the first fw "magnet" schools in the USA, with IQ and
achievment tests to get in and they required minimum grades (72
average) to stay in.
The freshman washout rate was about 20%.
I was great at math and science, terrible at English, and basically
helpless in French.
But you can make yourself understood here, which doesn't entirely work
to your advantage.
?????
Your English expression is fine, but what you have to
express is somehwat superficial.
I design electronics and sell it. Is that superficial?
What do you do?
NIF just discovered a new fusion trick, inertial confinement in a
diamond sphere. Maybe we helped.
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs >><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in >><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time. >>>Apparently that’s most people.
I never had that.
I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
But you could sleep for those two hours!
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 06:58:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700) it happened john larkin >><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <6u4mdjt3d32biaavd02a2cfebsgtd5kapa@4ax.com>:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
Sure on problem, on my table there also is a small glass jar with some apple juice and a foil top with small holes
and many insects caught in it:
https://www.countryliving.com/home-maintenance/cleaning/a45085435/fruit-fly-traps-indoors-diy/
We like to leave the door open at our new office. We get fresh air and >neighbors and kids and dogs and fruit flies.
These really work:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MRHXM0I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had with
his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close their
eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From the
side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people who can't, that could explain a great deal.
On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 08:26:09 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <adqodjt8i1ur9p0eiurhin35ogs7j5qecc@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 06:58:54 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <6u4mdjt3d32biaavd02a2cfebsgtd5kapa@4ax.com>:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
Sure on problem, on my table there also is a small glass jar with some apple juice and a foil top with small holes
and many insects caught in it:
https://www.countryliving.com/home-maintenance/cleaning/a45085435/fruit-fly-traps-indoors-diy/
We like to leave the door open at our new office. We get fresh air and >>neighbors and kids and dogs and fruit flies.
These really work:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MRHXM0I/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&th=1
Expensive,
using a glass bottle with holes in the lid works best this site says, costs nothing, re-usable
https://www.thekitchn.com/diy-fruit-fly-traps-22942130
that is what I use (no lid but foil, should try a lid too some day, plenty of empty honey bottles here).
You can see how effective it is by what is in it :-)
I did buy a box with holes and some poison against ants, few month ago we had a big invasion,
hundreds of dead ants I had to hoover up after that.
On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:56:15 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <o2qodjp2ddlah6ikfob6icjqa4as2ulib1@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:29:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <eq8mdjd7lohm9rglsdc7rgi5i7nbde1co1@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin >>>>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked >>>>>>him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people >>>>>>who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>>>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in >>>>>the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and >>>>>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>>>his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was >>>>>crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>>>>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization >>>>thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some
time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>>>example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember
faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to >>>>be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine >>>>Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares >>>>painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up
from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful
to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
I was tested for the draft here and immediately assigned to the air force. >>>But did not have to serve as there was a law here 'eldest son breadwinner'. >>>But sure enough my first job was designing stuff for the telcos, army and navy,
so wound up there anyways and worked on those navy ships, dangerous...
I used to work on ships, designing control systems and for a while
going out and maintaining them.
The steam plants were especially dangerous. A welded pipe joint might
leak an invisible jet that would cut you in half. The crew would test
a joint by waving a broomstick around it, and see if the end would
be sliced off and fall to the deck.
Sounds bad..
I did not like the intense noise in the machine rooms from the diesel engines, >and the small doors and gangways you had to 'creep' through.
Almost got electrocuted working on a power supply on a heli deck..
We had asked for the power to be turned off so we could change some stuff.
I opened the (big) box and felt that funny tingling on my nose...
to my boss "feels like there still is power"
measured it, sure
he almost fainted...
Guy had turned off the wrong switch..
In the next summer vacation I applied for a job in broadcasting and got it. >Had designed and build my own portable video camera so knew enough :-)
There were 6 of us hired, We then got 6 month training in all things broadcast related... payed for.
followed by an exam, 2 dropped out (you have to have a feel for that stuff). >2 more dropped out later...
On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs >>><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in >>><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>> visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time. >>>>Apparently that’s most people.
I never had that.
I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
But you could sleep for those two hours!
Maybe, dream? I hardly dream at all.. few hours of sleep is normal, 4 hours or so.
Lots of activity here so you _will_ be woken up.
Worked long hours for many years (in broadcasting from early morning to end transmission at night),
travel home, go to sleep, wake up, back to work...
We had a schedule 2 days up 1 day off.
basically it was: for every night you worked you gained half a free day,
well in the sixties and seventies, no idea what they do now.
Some of you earth creatures sleep for month at the time, like those 4 legged white polar earthlings..
On 8/09/2024 2:15 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 01:46:45 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 8/09/2024 12:50 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 10:03:51 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:
In article <vbgm7r$16mcv$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says... >>>>>>
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights.
He happens to be right. The idea was invented in France in 1904 and used >>>>>> to sort educationally sub-normal kids so that they got the kid of
educational help that they needed and could get some advantage out of. >>>>>>
I wish that school when I went had a way to educate children in what >>>>> they were interested in. I was great in math and science but could not >>>>> remember the people's named or dates in history and did very poor in >>>>> English. I did go to two sumers of what was called enrichment studies >>>>> where we did not get graded but was exposed to many things that came in >>>>> hand in later life such as speed reading and general information about >>>>> other countries and some science. I really enjoyed those two years. The >>>>> ones in that program were ones that seemed to be at the top of the
school class.
I went to one of the first fw "magnet" schools in the USA, with IQ and >>>> achievment tests to get in and they required minimum grades (72
average) to stay in.
The freshman washout rate was about 20%.
I was great at math and science, terrible at English, and basically
helpless in French.
But you can make yourself understood here, which doesn't entirely work
to your advantage.
?????
Your English expression is fine, but what you have to
express is somehwat superficial.
I design electronics and sell it. Is that superficial?
Your contributions to that aren't remotely fundamental.
What do you do?
Nothing that you could make any sense of.
NIF just discovered a new fusion trick, inertial confinement in a
diamond sphere. Maybe we helped.
The standard NIF implosion capsule is already extremely expensive and
very small. Making it spherical and out of diamond wouldn't make it any
more expensive.
You contribution to that will have been exactly zero. This suggests that
you may be barking up the wrong tree,
https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
On Fri, 6 Sep 2024 16:08:19 -0700, Joerg <news@analogconsultants.com>
wrote:
On 9/6/24 7:53 AM, john larkin wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio
station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It
was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had
with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked
him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close
their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental
visual image.
Many may just have never tried hard enough. In their dreams almost all >>people do though.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a
beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From
the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it
slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people
who can't, that could explain a great deal.
Yesterday I did a bike ride with the guys. Very hot weather and half way >>through the ride I had this image in my head of a large stein of
Pilsener, with foam and with the condensation water dripping down the >>outside of the glass. It gave me a lot of extra punch to get to the
brewpub faster.
<https://cameradobrewing.com/our-beers>
Often Dan or Kate already start pouring a Pilsener when they see me
rolling up on the road bike.
Sounds like the old sales motivation: "Visualize Success!"
Joe Gwinn
On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 16:55:55 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 8/09/2024 2:15 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 01:46:45 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 8/09/2024 12:50 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 10:03:51 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:
In article <vbgm7r$16mcv$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says... >>>>>>>
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights.
He happens to be right. The idea was invented in France in 1904 and used
to sort educationally sub-normal kids so that they got the kid of >>>>>>> educational help that they needed and could get some advantage out of. >>>>>>>
I wish that school when I went had a way to educate children in what >>>>>> they were interested in. I was great in math and science but could not >>>>>> remember the people's named or dates in history and did very poor in >>>>>> English. I did go to two sumers of what was called enrichment studies >>>>>> where we did not get graded but was exposed to many things that came in >>>>>> hand in later life such as speed reading and general information about >>>>>> other countries and some science. I really enjoyed those two years. The >>>>>> ones in that program were ones that seemed to be at the top of the >>>>>> school class.
I went to one of the first fw "magnet" schools in the USA, with IQ and >>>>> achievment tests to get in and they required minimum grades (72
average) to stay in.
The freshman washout rate was about 20%.
I was great at math and science, terrible at English, and basically
helpless in French.
But you can make yourself understood here, which doesn't entirely work >>>> to your advantage.
?????
Your English expression is fine, but what you have to
express is somehwat superficial.
I design electronics and sell it. Is that superficial?
Your contributions to that aren't remotely fundamental.
What do you do?
Nothing that you could make any sense of.
Try me.
NIF just discovered a new fusion trick, inertial confinement in a
diamond sphere. Maybe we helped.
The standard NIF implosion capsule is already extremely expensive and
very small. Making it spherical and out of diamond wouldn't make it any
more expensive.
You contribution to that will have been exactly zero. This suggests that
you may be barking up the wrong tree,
https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
Our second-generation modulators greatly improve the beam modulation precision and s/n, which turns out to be valuable.
The NIF folks are great to work with. They are collegial and fun and
have interesting physics problems but they aren't very good at
designing electronics. Ideal customers.
It's weird how some very intelligent scientists are not good at
designing electronics. Maybe because electronic design is not a
science.
On 9/09/2024 2:35 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 16:55:55 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 8/09/2024 2:15 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 01:46:45 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 8/09/2024 12:50 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 10:03:51 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:
In article <vbgm7r$16mcv$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says... >>>>>>>>
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
Baloney.
Thank you for your thoughtful insights.
He happens to be right. The idea was invented in France in 1904 and used
to sort educationally sub-normal kids so that they got the kid of >>>>>>>> educational help that they needed and could get some advantage out of. >>>>>>>>
I wish that school when I went had a way to educate children in what >>>>>>> they were interested in. I was great in math and science but could not >>>>>>> remember the people's named or dates in history and did very poor in >>>>>>> English. I did go to two sumers of what was called enrichment studies >>>>>>> where we did not get graded but was exposed to many things that came in >>>>>>> hand in later life such as speed reading and general information about >>>>>>> other countries and some science. I really enjoyed those two years. The
ones in that program were ones that seemed to be at the top of the >>>>>>> school class.
I went to one of the first fw "magnet" schools in the USA, with IQ and >>>>>> achievment tests to get in and they required minimum grades (72
average) to stay in.
The freshman washout rate was about 20%.
I was great at math and science, terrible at English, and basically >>>>>> helpless in French.
But you can make yourself understood here, which doesn't entirely work >>>>> to your advantage.
?????
Your English expression is fine, but what you have to
express is somehwat superficial.
I design electronics and sell it. Is that superficial?
Your contributions to that aren't remotely fundamental.
What do you do?
Nothing that you could make any sense of.
Try me.
NIF just discovered a new fusion trick, inertial confinement in a
diamond sphere. Maybe we helped.
The standard NIF implosion capsule is already extremely expensive and
very small. Making it spherical and out of diamond wouldn't make it any
more expensive.
You contribution to that will have been exactly zero. This suggests that >>> you may be barking up the wrong tree,
https://lasers.llnl.gov/news/magnetized-targets-boost-nif-implosion-performance
Our second-generation modulators greatly improve the beam modulation
precision and s/n, which turns out to be valuable.
So the first generation was perfectly useless?
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 06:44:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john larkin >><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in >>>><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked >>>>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>>> visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people >>>>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time. >>>>>Apparently that’s most people.
I never had that.
I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
But you could sleep for those two hours!
Maybe, dream? I hardly dream at all.. few hours of sleep is normal, 4 hours or so.
Yikes. 9 or 10 for me. When I was younger, I'd sleep for 12.
I don't dream much that I know of, and the rare dream is just a bit of >everyday life. My wife has nightmares.
I do solve problems and design stuff while I sleep, and wake up
briefly to take notes.
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 07:02:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:56:15 -0700) it happened john larkin >><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <o2qodjp2ddlah6ikfob6icjqa4as2ulib1@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:29:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <eq8mdjd7lohm9rglsdc7rgi5i7nbde1co1@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin >>>>>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked >>>>>>>him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>>>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people >>>>>>>who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>>>>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in >>>>>>the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and >>>>>>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>>>>his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was >>>>>>crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>>>>>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization >>>>>thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some >>>>>time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>>>>example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember >>>>>faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to >>>>>be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine >>>>>Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares >>>>>painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up >>>>>from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful >>>>>to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
I was tested for the draft here and immediately assigned to the air force. >>>>But did not have to serve as there was a law here 'eldest son breadwinner'. >>>>But sure enough my first job was designing stuff for the telcos, army and navy,
so wound up there anyways and worked on those navy ships, dangerous...
I used to work on ships, designing control systems and for a while
going out and maintaining them.
The steam plants were especially dangerous. A welded pipe joint might >>>leak an invisible jet that would cut you in half. The crew would test
a joint by waving a broomstick around it, and see if the end would
be sliced off and fall to the deck.
Sounds bad..
I did not like the intense noise in the machine rooms from the diesel engines,
and the small doors and gangways you had to 'creep' through.
The steam plants were deafening too, and we had a giant aux diesel
too. You had to scream directly into someone's ear. People wore >construction-type helmets with ear pads, but I wore my motorcycle
helmet.
Almost got electrocuted working on a power supply on a heli deck..
We had asked for the power to be turned off so we could change some stuff. >>I opened the (big) box and felt that funny tingling on my nose...
to my boss "feels like there still is power"
measured it, sure
he almost fainted...
Guy had turned off the wrong switch..
In the next summer vacation I applied for a job in broadcasting and got it. >>Had designed and build my own portable video camera so knew enough :-) >>There were 6 of us hired, We then got 6 month training in all things broadcast related... payed for.
followed by an exam, 2 dropped out (you have to have a feel for that stuff). >>2 more dropped out later...
I was tweaking a trimpot to tune a nonlinear function generator and
got the prop up to 50 RPM, and almost tore the LASH ship off the dock
into the Mississippi river, and probably would have killed someone.
The Chief ran over and shut things down.
I once rode a ship from San Francisco to San Pedro, at maybe $100 per
hour, to diagnose an erratic steam plant. The fix was a quarter turn
on a screw on a terminal strip. That was from the RPM feedback tach.
The constant vibration had loosened a lot of screws.
Doing physical stuff is fun. Typing all day, not so much.
On Mon, 9 Sep 2024 14:54:07 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 9/09/2024 2:35 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 16:55:55 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
wrote:
On 8/09/2024 2:15 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Sep 2024 01:46:45 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>> wrote:
On 8/09/2024 12:50 am, john larkin wrote:
On Sat, 7 Sep 2024 10:03:51 -0400, Ralph Mowery
<rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:
Our second-generation modulators greatly improve the beam modulation
precision and s/n, which turns out to be valuable.
So the first generation was perfectly useless?
Of course not; we got fusion. But the kind of Gbit DACs that are
available how were not available 25 years ago. At that time, there
weren't any decent fast DACs, so we had to, basically, multiplex 120
slow dacs at a 4 GHz rate.
We knew that suitable DACs were just a few years away.
I did learn about Gibbs Ears and Gaussian math and cool stuff.
On a sunny day (Sun, 08 Sep 2024 09:39:49 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <2jkrdjpqtffrre9u5q9p862sdo9k3lk809@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 06:44:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in >>>>><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>>>> was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>>>> with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked >>>>>>> him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>>>> their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>>>> visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>>>> beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>>>> the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>>>> slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people >>>>>>> who can't, that could explain a great deal.
Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time. >>>>>>Apparently that’s most people.
I never had that.
I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
But you could sleep for those two hours!
Maybe, dream? I hardly dream at all.. few hours of sleep is normal, 4 hours or so.
Yikes. 9 or 10 for me. When I was younger, I'd sleep for 12.
I don't dream much that I know of, and the rare dream is just a bit of >>everyday life. My wife has nightmares.
I do solve problems and design stuff while I sleep, and wake up
briefly to take notes.
Do not even have a pen near to my bed :-)
As to 'visualizing' sound,
I remember you talking about alligator sounds messing with some measurements >now imagine (visualize) a very young alligator making a more high pitched sound...
There is music! rhythmhythm counts too.
Visualizing... you are in the garden, big disc like thing descends next to you on the grass
sort of a door opens, clever looking creature steps out,
says "are you John Larkin?" you acknowledge, creature asks for a Ge PNP transistor to fix his disc ..
you have none, wants to help fix his spacecraft, creature shows his electronic box
with all sorts of stuff in it, little blobs covering little chips
funny connectors, joystick for steering his disc and a picture of his Ohm planet...
you design a replacement circuit for the GE PNP ... solder it in place, >creature is grateful and gives you a little box , goes back in the disc and warps away
You open the box and see
Russian doll Matroesjka ?
After posting about China wanting to do a Mars return here,
now ELon wants to do a manned Mars mission before 2028 I just did read.
It is all over the net:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Elon-Musk-pegs-the-first-human-flight-to-Mars-for-2028-with-a-colony-to-follow-in-20-years.885865.0.html
On a sunny day (Sun, 08 Sep 2024 09:27:13 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <sajrdj1b7v5cedkmgfu8ssbnb576f8smde@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 07:02:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:56:15 -0700) it happened john larkin >>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <o2qodjp2ddlah6ikfob6icjqa4as2ulib1@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:29:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <eq8mdjd7lohm9rglsdc7rgi5i7nbde1co1@4ax.com>:I used to work on ships, designing control systems and for a while >>>>going out and maintaining them.
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>>>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin >>>>>>><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>>>>station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. It >>>>>>>>was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd had >>>>>>>>with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and asked >>>>>>>>him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, could close >>>>>>>>their eyes and *see* something they were thinking about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a mental >>>>>>>>visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate with a >>>>>>>>beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see it? From >>>>>>>>the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The colors? Imagine it >>>>>>>>slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and people >>>>>>>>who can't, that could explain a great deal.
There are definitely such people, and I've met them. The example that >>>>>>>springs to mind was a History Teaching Assistant I met in college in >>>>>>>the 1960s. It turned out that he had been an EE Undergrad, and >>>>>>>discovered that he could not visualize the electrons in motion, unlike >>>>>>>his colleagues. This TA was wise enough to know that this was >>>>>>>crippling - he would never be able to compete with those who could >>>>>>>visualize electrons. So he switched to History.
Joe Gwinn
The statistics would be interesting, whether the non-visualization >>>>>>thing is common or maybe very rare. I'll have to google that some >>>>>>time.
There is a small fraction of the population that don't like music, for >>>>>>example. That includes me. Some people absolutely can't remember >>>>>>faces. I know a guy who can only recognize people by their hair.
I'd expect that among CE/EE graduates, good visualizers would tend to >>>>>>be more EE and less visualizers more CE. Things vs words.
That would suggest a good interview question.
I was drafted once (never served) and took a test to join the Marine >>>>>>Corps. One part involved looking at a flat thing with various squares >>>>>>painted with patterns, and then imagining a box that was folded up >>>>>>from the flat thing. I guess that visualizing things would be useful >>>>>>to a Marine.
I think the original IQ test was for the military.
I was tested for the draft here and immediately assigned to the air force. >>>>>But did not have to serve as there was a law here 'eldest son breadwinner'.
But sure enough my first job was designing stuff for the telcos, army and navy,
so wound up there anyways and worked on those navy ships, dangerous... >>>>
The steam plants were especially dangerous. A welded pipe joint might >>>>leak an invisible jet that would cut you in half. The crew would test
a joint by waving a broomstick around it, and see if the end would
be sliced off and fall to the deck.
Sounds bad..
I did not like the intense noise in the machine rooms from the diesel engines,
and the small doors and gangways you had to 'creep' through.
The steam plants were deafening too, and we had a giant aux diesel
too. You had to scream directly into someone's ear. People wore >>construction-type helmets with ear pads, but I wore my motorcycle
helmet.
Almost got electrocuted working on a power supply on a heli deck..
We had asked for the power to be turned off so we could change some stuff. >>>I opened the (big) box and felt that funny tingling on my nose...
to my boss "feels like there still is power"
measured it, sure
he almost fainted...
Guy had turned off the wrong switch..
In the next summer vacation I applied for a job in broadcasting and got it. >>>Had designed and build my own portable video camera so knew enough :-) >>>There were 6 of us hired, We then got 6 month training in all things broadcast related... payed for.
followed by an exam, 2 dropped out (you have to have a feel for that stuff). >>>2 more dropped out later...
I was tweaking a trimpot to tune a nonlinear function generator and
got the prop up to 50 RPM, and almost tore the LASH ship off the dock
into the Mississippi river, and probably would have killed someone.
The Chief ran over and shut things down.
I once rode a ship from San Francisco to San Pedro, at maybe $100 per
hour, to diagnose an erratic steam plant. The fix was a quarter turn
on a screw on a terminal strip. That was from the RPM feedback tach.
The constant vibration had loosened a lot of screws.
Doing physical stuff is fun. Typing all day, not so much.
There was a nice program about 'Old man river' on TV few days ago, showing how it was discovered
people looking for the source, the natives and the fights and what it looks like now.
Yesterday I was looking for a nice catamaran for a world tour :-)
For a couple of thousand you have something for the adventurer.
My idea is to put some things like these on top:
https://tesup.com/nl/tesup-verticale-windturbines-voor-woningen
then use electric motors, big battery packs.
Then no matter what direction the wind comes from you always have power and can steer in any direction...
Somebody already did that it seems
And solar panels I already have..
Anyways before the nuking here starts, better sail away...
Bit more south maybe a safer place...
Not the first time I had that sail-away plan, but world tensions increase by thr day now.
On Mon, 09 Sep 2024 06:25:15 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 08 Sep 2024 09:27:13 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <sajrdj1b7v5cedkmgfu8ssbnb576f8smde@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 07:02:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:56:15 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>> <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <o2qodjp2ddlah6ikfob6icjqa4as2ulib1@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:29:56 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 06 Sep 2024 08:59:06 -0700) it happened john larkin >>>>>> <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <eq8mdjd7lohm9rglsdc7rgi5i7nbde1co1@4ax.com>:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 11:27:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>>>> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Sep 2024 07:53:46 -0700, john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
One could put a wind turbine on a boat and drive a prop in the water.
It's just an impedance matching problem.
On a sunny day (Sun, 08 Sep 2024 09:39:49 -0700) it happened john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <2jkrdjpqtffrre9u5q9p862sdo9k3lk809@4ax.com>:Mars-for-2028-with-a-colony-to-follow-in-20-years.885865.0.html
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 06:44:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in >>><mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened >>>>>Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in >>>>><vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
Or people who have a dialogue going on in their heads all the time. >>>>>>Apparently that’s most people.
I was driving and listening to the local mostly-annoying NPR radio >>>>>>> station, but they had an interesting interview with a book author. >>>>>>> It was about his novel or some poetry or something.
What was interesting was his recalling a conversation that he'd
had with his wife. She was takling about a plant or something and >>>>>>> asked him to visualize it. He was astounded that she, or anyone, >>>>>>> could close their eyes and *see* something they were thinking
about.
I was shocked to learn that there are people who can't form a
mental visual image.
Close your eyes and consider a nice white ceramic dinner plate
with a beautiful deep red apple sitting in the center. Can you see >>>>>>> it? From the side and from the top? Do you see the stem? The
colors? Imagine it slowly rotating? See the fruit fly?
If the world is divided between people who can visualise and
people who can't, that could explain a great deal.
I never had that.
I do 2 hours of meditation a day.
But you could sleep for those two hours!
Maybe, dream? I hardly dream at all.. few hours of sleep is normal, 4 >>>hours or so.
Yikes. 9 or 10 for me. When I was younger, I'd sleep for 12.
I don't dream much that I know of, and the rare dream is just a bit of >>everyday life. My wife has nightmares.
I do solve problems and design stuff while I sleep, and wake up briefly
to take notes.
Do not even have a pen near to my bed :-)
As to 'visualizing' sound,
I remember you talking about alligator sounds messing with some
measurements now imagine (visualize) a very young alligator making a
more high pitched sound...
There is music! rhythmhythm counts too.
Visualizing... you are in the garden, big disc like thing descends next
to you on the grass sort of a door opens, clever looking creature steps
out,
says "are you John Larkin?" you acknowledge, creature asks for a Ge PNP transistor to fix his disc ..
you have none, wants to help fix his spacecraft, creature shows his electronic box with all sorts of stuff in it, little blobs covering
little chips funny connectors, joystick for steering his disc and a
picture of his Ohm planet...
you design a replacement circuit for the GE PNP ... solder it in place, creature is grateful and gives you a little box , goes back in the disc
and warps away You open the box and see
Russian doll Matroesjka ?
After posting about China wanting to do a Mars return here,
now ELon wants to do a manned Mars mission before 2028 I just did read.
It is all over the net:
https://www.notebookcheck.net/Elon-Musk-pegs-the-first-human-flight-to-
On Mon, 09 Sep 2024 06:02:55 GMT, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Sun, 08 Sep 2024 09:39:49 -0700) it happened john larkin
<jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in
<2jkrdjpqtffrre9u5q9p862sdo9k3lk809@4ax.com>:
On Sun, 08 Sep 2024 06:44:05 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:39:46 -0700) it happened john
larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in
<mbpodjl90u9ngibm2pb45uv9bbojvkfirr@4ax.com>:
On Sat, 07 Sep 2024 07:04:13 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:
On a sunny day (Fri, 6 Sep 2024 15:08:34 -0000 (UTC)) it happened
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
<vbf5ti$s3c0$2@dont-email.me>:
john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
Elon Musk is the Henry Ford of his day, Jan. A true pioneer. The fact that his business managed to survive all those catastrophic car fires whilst
the occupants were locked inside by the car's brain testifies to that achievement.
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