• Small batch SMT tools?

    From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 24 02:00:17 2024
    I've a colleague who has offered to "build" the first batch of
    boards for my alpha site -- about 1000 pieces (though small;
    about 3 sq in each; 25 different designs).

    I feel like I'd be pushing my luck to ask him to also build the
    prototypes -- about 50 total pieces.

    I have an opportunity to rescue some kit, this weekend (PnP,
    stenciler, hotplate, another Leister, etc.) if I opt to do the
    prototypes myself.

    But, I suspect this will be more work than it is worth. (I've never
    assembled boards this small and densely packed). And, is more "stuff"
    to store, here.

    [OTOH, if I have to do any rework...]

    Perhaps I should "ask nicely" and promise him some baked goods or
    ice cream as an incentive? Pizzas for the folks on the 'line?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sat Aug 24 10:23:03 2024
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
    I've a colleague who has offered to "build" the first batch of
    boards for my alpha site -- about 1000 pieces (though small;
    about 3 sq in each; 25 different designs).

    I feel like I'd be pushing my luck to ask him to also build the
    prototypes -- about 50 total pieces.

    I have an opportunity to rescue some kit, this weekend (PnP,
    stenciler, hotplate, another Leister, etc.) if I opt to do the
    prototypes myself.

    But, I suspect this will be more work than it is worth. (I've never assembled boards this small and densely packed). And, is more "stuff"
    to store, here.

    [OTOH, if I have to do any rework...]

    Perhaps I should "ask nicely" and promise him some baked goods or
    ice cream as an incentive? Pizzas for the folks on the 'line?



    Board stuffing has got so cheap that we don’t even stuff protos.

    JLCPCB is the bomb, apart from the occasional rotated QFN.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin @21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sat Aug 24 07:37:59 2024
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 10:23:03 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
    I've a colleague who has offered to "build" the first batch of
    boards for my alpha site -- about 1000 pieces (though small;
    about 3 sq in each; 25 different designs).

    I feel like I'd be pushing my luck to ask him to also build the
    prototypes -- about 50 total pieces.

    I have an opportunity to rescue some kit, this weekend (PnP,
    stenciler, hotplate, another Leister, etc.) if I opt to do the
    prototypes myself.

    But, I suspect this will be more work than it is worth. (I've never
    assembled boards this small and densely packed). And, is more "stuff"
    to store, here.

    [OTOH, if I have to do any rework...]

    Perhaps I should "ask nicely" and promise him some baked goods or
    ice cream as an incentive? Pizzas for the folks on the 'line?



    Board stuffing has got so cheap that we don’t even stuff protos.

    JLCPCB is the bomb, apart from the occasional rotated QFN.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make
    a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ian@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 24 17:07:08 2024
    On 2024-08-24, john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make
    a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong.

    Challenge accepted :)


    --
    Ian

    "Tamahome!!!" - "Miaka!!!"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 24 13:57:05 2024
    "john larkin" <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in message news:btrjcjlau514kg86ssg4gj0j65jcd0rg4e@4ax.com...
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 10:23:03 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
    I've a colleague who has offered to "build" the first batch of
    boards for my alpha site -- about 1000 pieces (though small;
    about 3 sq in each; 25 different designs).

    I feel like I'd be pushing my luck to ask him to also build the
    prototypes -- about 50 total pieces.

    I have an opportunity to rescue some kit, this weekend (PnP,
    stenciler, hotplate, another Leister, etc.) if I opt to do the
    prototypes myself.

    But, I suspect this will be more work than it is worth. (I've never
    assembled boards this small and densely packed). And, is more "stuff"
    to store, here.

    [OTOH, if I have to do any rework...]

    Perhaps I should "ask nicely" and promise him some baked goods or
    ice cream as an incentive? Pizzas for the folks on the 'line?



    Board stuffing has got so cheap that we don't even stuff protos.

    JLCPCB is the bomb, apart from the occasional rotated QFN.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make
    a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong.

    But you could plug the wrong tube in :)



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin @21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 24 11:28:45 2024
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 17:07:08 -0000 (UTC), Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:

    On 2024-08-24, john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make
    a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong.

    Challenge accepted :)

    And they used the tube convention of counting pins counter-clockwise,
    which actually doesn't make much sense for ICs.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin @21:1/5 to invalid@invalid.invalid on Sat Aug 24 11:26:20 2024
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 13:57:05 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "john larkin" <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in message news:btrjcjlau514kg86ssg4gj0j65jcd0rg4e@4ax.com...
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 10:23:03 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
    I've a colleague who has offered to "build" the first batch of
    boards for my alpha site -- about 1000 pieces (though small;
    about 3 sq in each; 25 different designs).

    I feel like I'd be pushing my luck to ask him to also build the
    prototypes -- about 50 total pieces.

    I have an opportunity to rescue some kit, this weekend (PnP,
    stenciler, hotplate, another Leister, etc.) if I opt to do the
    prototypes myself.

    But, I suspect this will be more work than it is worth. (I've never
    assembled boards this small and densely packed). And, is more "stuff" >>>> to store, here.

    [OTOH, if I have to do any rework...]

    Perhaps I should "ask nicely" and promise him some baked goods or
    ice cream as an incentive? Pizzas for the folks on the 'line?



    Board stuffing has got so cheap that we don't even stuff protos.

    JLCPCB is the bomb, apart from the occasional rotated QFN.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make
    a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong.

    But you could plug the wrong tube in :)




    Oh, don't get technical. I hate it when people get technical.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 24 20:51:56 2024
    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 17:07:08 -0000 (UTC), Ian <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> wrote:

    On 2024-08-24, john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make
    a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong.

    Challenge accepted :)

    And they used the tube convention of counting pins counter-clockwise,
    which actually doesn't make much sense for ICs.





    They’re clockwise looking at the bottom, proving once again that dead bug
    is the One True Prototyping Style. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin @21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sat Aug 24 15:09:57 2024
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 20:51:56 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 17:07:08 -0000 (UTC), Ian
    <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com>
    wrote:

    On 2024-08-24, john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make
    a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong.

    Challenge accepted :)

    And they used the tube convention of counting pins counter-clockwise,
    which actually doesn't make much sense for ICs.





    They’re clockwise looking at the bottom, proving once again that dead bug
    is the One True Prototyping Style. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Cruelty to invertibrates. You should be ashamed.

    If you solder a surfmount part to an adapter, do you mount all that
    upside down?

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6pfssxz68ay8t64yh6xag/Z356_SN2.JPG?rlkey=o89t5tjsxh31264zbsirjin47&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 24 22:33:05 2024
    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 20:51:56 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 17:07:08 -0000 (UTC), Ian
    <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> >>> wrote:

    On 2024-08-24, john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make >>>>> a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong.

    Challenge accepted :)

    And they used the tube convention of counting pins counter-clockwise,
    which actually doesn't make much sense for ICs.





    TheyÂ’re clockwise looking at the bottom, proving once again that dead bug >> is the One True Prototyping Style. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Cruelty to invertibrates. You should be ashamed.

    If you solder a surfmount part to an adapter, do you mount all that
    upside down?

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6pfssxz68ay8t64yh6xag/Z356_SN2.JPG?rlkey=o89t5tjsxh31264zbsirjin47&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1

    I should try that. ;)

    I use SOT and SOIC packages upside down, but they’re fiddlier than DIPs and TO92s.

    Fortunately I invested in a lot of those a few years ago, when the Great
    TO92 Purge started. I should be good for the next century or so. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs







    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sun Aug 25 17:10:44 2024
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 22:33:05 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 20:51:56 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 17:07:08 -0000 (UTC), Ian
    <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> >>>> wrote:

    On 2024-08-24, john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make >>>>>> a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong.

    Challenge accepted :)

    And they used the tube convention of counting pins counter-clockwise,
    which actually doesn't make much sense for ICs.





    They?re clockwise looking at the bottom, proving once again that dead bug >>> is the One True Prototyping Style. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Cruelty to invertibrates. You should be ashamed.

    If you solder a surfmount part to an adapter, do you mount all that
    upside down?

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6pfssxz68ay8t64yh6xag/Z356_SN2.JPG?rlkey=o89t5tjsxh31264zbsirjin47&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1

    I should try that. ;)

    I use SOT and SOIC packages upside down, but they’re fiddlier than DIPs and >TO92s.

    Fortunately I invested in a lot of those a few years ago, when the Great
    TO92 Purge started. I should be good for the next century or so. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    I suppose your Mo bakes upside-down cake.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upside-down_cake

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to john larkin on Mon Aug 26 00:30:09 2024
    john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 22:33:05 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 20:51:56 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 17:07:08 -0000 (UTC), Ian
    <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com> >>>>> wrote:

    On 2024-08-24, john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make >>>>>>> a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong.

    Challenge accepted :)

    And they used the tube convention of counting pins counter-clockwise, >>>>> which actually doesn't make much sense for ICs.





    They?re clockwise looking at the bottom, proving once again that dead bug >>>> is the One True Prototyping Style. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Cruelty to invertibrates. You should be ashamed.

    If you solder a surfmount part to an adapter, do you mount all that
    upside down?

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6pfssxz68ay8t64yh6xag/Z356_SN2.JPG?rlkey=o89t5tjsxh31264zbsirjin47&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1

    I should try that. ;)

    I use SOT and SOIC packages upside down, but theyÂ’re fiddlier than DIPs and >> TO92s.

    Fortunately I invested in a lot of those a few years ago, when the Great
    TO92 Purge started. I should be good for the next century or so. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    I suppose your Mo bakes upside-down cake.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upside-down_cake



    Fortunately not. ;)

    Neither of us are real cake people— give me a nice peach & ginger or strawberry rhubarb pie anytime. Soft gingerbread with applesauce and
    custard is another fave. (Real custard with real vanilla!)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs
    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin @21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Tue Aug 27 06:55:15 2024
    On Mon, 26 Aug 2024 00:30:09 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 22:33:05 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 20:51:56 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Sat, 24 Aug 2024 17:07:08 -0000 (UTC), Ian
    <${send-direct-email-to-news1021-at-jusme-dot-com-if-you-must}@jusme.com>
    wrote:

    On 2024-08-24, john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    It's crazy that, starting from the earliest days of ICs, you can make >>>>>>>> a mistake by rotating a part. You couldn't plug in a tube wrong. >>>>>>>
    Challenge accepted :)

    And they used the tube convention of counting pins counter-clockwise, >>>>>> which actually doesn't make much sense for ICs.





    They?re clockwise looking at the bottom, proving once again that dead bug >>>>> is the One True Prototyping Style. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Cruelty to invertibrates. You should be ashamed.

    If you solder a surfmount part to an adapter, do you mount all that
    upside down?

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/6pfssxz68ay8t64yh6xag/Z356_SN2.JPG?rlkey=o89t5tjsxh31264zbsirjin47&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/ydvcds95zvzjq56bzeimr/Z412_Proto.JPG?rlkey=hyejukxbbnk3573engf0if4zt&raw=1

    I should try that. ;)

    I use SOT and SOIC packages upside down, but they?re fiddlier than DIPs and >>> TO92s.

    Fortunately I invested in a lot of those a few years ago, when the Great >>> TO92 Purge started. I should be good for the next century or so. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    I suppose your Mo bakes upside-down cake.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Upside-down_cake



    Fortunately not. ;)

    Neither of us are real cake people— give me a nice peach & ginger or >strawberry rhubarb pie anytime. Soft gingerbread with applesauce and >custard is another fave. (Real custard with real vanilla!)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Did you ever had my bread pudding? It's basically custard with some
    bits of bread and fruit floating on top.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/2ggevnaxgdzihz9tr0r2h/CBP.JPG?rlkey=9ivp5scddom1hvwk12r5p7hwn&raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/90zakya81lewtaubj38yu/CBP.txt?rlkey=fiy3vri4orbtzkcoa13il4t3l&raw=1

    Have you tried Guinness Cake?

    https://www.google.com/imgres?q=Guinness%20Cake&imgurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nigella.com%2Fassets%2Fuploads%2Frecipes%2Fpublic-thumbnail%2F1798f0f1-3760-4f84-9ed9-9108b1-65f8088ec22c2.jpg&imgrefurl=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nigella.com%2Frecipes%2Fchocolate-guinness-
    cake&docid=y9VBcVkzVB-GiM&tbnid=Iu9-en5u2FD7qM&vet=12ahUKEwj66tKAqZWIAxXrFDQIHVwXFuMQM3oECBUQAA..i&w=600&h=543&hcb=2&ved=2ahUKEwj66tKAqZWIAxXrFDQIHVwXFuMQM3oECBUQAA

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