Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention
to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY of your terms instead of ALL. [...]
On 8/21/24 21:57, Don Y wrote:
Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention
to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY
of your terms instead of ALL. [...]
I tried that. They'll take the intended logical operator as yet
another search term and show you *more* undesired results.
Idiots.
On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 12:57:34 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention
to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY >> of your terms instead of ALL. So, you scroll through page after page of
"no, not that". Likely because they hope you will "settle" for something else
they are offering -- instead of abandoning the site in favor of another
vendor.
Exactly.
My current strategy is to specify only and exactly what I know to be
a faithful description of the item (e.g., by reading it off the package!)
and, look through the results until I encounter the first item that
doesn't match all of my search terms -- figuring anything after this is
just wishful thinking on their part.
Has anyone else found a better scheme? Quoting arguments? etc.
The best I've come up with is to use "site:<>" (without the quotes) to qualify a google search. For instance google for "item
site:etail.com". This is useful for Amazon searches, but google is
also trying to sell. Used to be that a + in front of a term required
it to be present, but now only quoting the term seems to work. It also
used to be that a - would forbid the term; maybe an "and not"
qualifier will work. Takes some fiddling.
Joe Gwinn
Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention >to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY >of your terms instead of ALL. So, you scroll through page after page of
"no, not that". Likely because they hope you will "settle" for something else >they are offering -- instead of abandoning the site in favor of another >vendor.
My current strategy is to specify only and exactly what I know to be
a faithful description of the item (e.g., by reading it off the package!) >and, look through the results until I encounter the first item that
doesn't match all of my search terms -- figuring anything after this is
just wishful thinking on their part.
Has anyone else found a better scheme? Quoting arguments? etc.
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 8/21/24 21:57, Don Y wrote:
Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer
attention
to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY
of your terms instead of ALL. [...]
I tried that. They'll take the intended logical operator as yet
another search term and show you *more* undesired results.
Idiots.
They aren't there to help you find what you want, they are there to sell
you what they get paid for.
On 8/21/24 21:57, Don Y wrote:
Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention
to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY >> of your terms instead of ALL. [...]
I tried that. They'll take the intended logical operator as yet
another search term and show you *more* undesired results.
Idiots.
On 8/21/2024 1:10 PM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
On 8/21/24 21:57, Don Y wrote:
Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention
to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY >>> of your terms instead of ALL. [...]
I tried that. They'll take the intended logical operator as yet
another search term and show you *more* undesired results.
I wasn't thinking of an explicit *operator* as much as careful grouping. >E.g.,
"stainless steel" "2 gang" "wall plate"
to match all variants of those *three* phrases -- and NOT:
wall plate
OR two gang
OR stainless steel
(OR stainless OR steel OR two OR gang OR wall OR plate...)
Idiots.
They obviously think more folks will spend extra time trying to settle
for something than moving on.
Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention >to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY >of your terms instead of ALL. So, you scroll through page after page of
"no, not that". Likely because they hope you will "settle" for something else >they are offering -- instead of abandoning the site in favor of another >vendor.
My current strategy is to specify only and exactly what I know to be
a faithful description of the item (e.g., by reading it off the package!) >and, look through the results until I encounter the first item that
doesn't match all of my search terms -- figuring anything after this is
just wishful thinking on their part.
Has anyone else found a better scheme? Quoting arguments? etc.
They obviously think more folks will spend extra time trying to settle
for something than moving on.
And they're probably right, because if it didn't usually lead to a
sale, they would stop trying to deflect people with decoys. I'm sure
they have tested all manner of approaches, and the present one won.
Has anyone else found a better scheme? Quoting arguments? etc.
Which web search engine are you using? Google, DuckDuckGo, Brave,
Bing, etc:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_search_engines>
Or, are you using the web site's server search feature to look for
products available from a specific web vendor? I guess that might be
what you mean by an "*etail* site.
If your problem is with the search built into an *etail* web site,
you'll need to disclose the site in question. They're all different
and there is no universal fix. I've noticed that providing far more
products than the search should have provided is now standard
procedure for most shopping sites. Maybe the first few items are
within my search filter, but the rest are "closely related" items that
the operators of the shopping site believe might be of interest.
Despite the obvious problems resulting from flooding the buyer with
unwanted product offers, sometimes the closely related product
provides something of interest.
Good luck.
On 8/21/2024 7:08 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Has anyone else found a better scheme? Quoting arguments? etc.
Which web search engine are you using? Google, DuckDuckGo, Brave,
Bing, etc:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_search_engines>
Or, are you using the web site's server search feature to look for
products available from a specific web vendor? I guess that might be
what you mean by an "*etail* site.
Exactly. I'm going to PICK UP an item, today. Which store will I drive
to? Which carries the item? Which has it IN STOCK? Where, in the store,
is it located?
On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 20:00:43 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 8/21/2024 7:08 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Has anyone else found a better scheme? Quoting arguments? etc.
Which web search engine are you using? Google, DuckDuckGo, Brave,
Bing, etc:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_search_engines>
Or, are you using the web site's server search feature to look for
products available from a specific web vendor? I guess that might be
what you mean by an "*etail* site.
Exactly. I'm going to PICK UP an item, today. Which store will I drive
to? Which carries the item? Which has it IN STOCK? Where, in the store, >> is it located?
You didn't answer my question. Are you:
[ ] searching the entire internet?
[ ] searching the vendors shopping site?
I already offered a few suggestions for searching the entire internet
with your choice of web search page and search options. However, I
can't offer any advice on how to customize a shopping site, which is
under the control of the vendor.
As for "going to pickup an item today", I don't do much of that. I
usually have the vendor ship me my purchases. In general, the
inventory is accurate for items that use commercial delivery services
(i.e. automated warehouse). I can't say the same for store inventory,
which is subject to various types of shrinkage, such as theft,
mis-filing, hidden behind other items, customer return problems,
packaging damage, open boxes, etc.
On 8/21/2024 1:28 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:[...]
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 8/21/24 21:57, Don Y wrote: > Is there some secret handshake to >>coerce *etail* sites to pay closer > attention > to your search >>criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY > of
your terms instead of ALL. [...]
I tried that. They'll take the intended logical operator as yet
another search term and show you *more* undesired results.
Idiots.
They aren't there to help you find what you want, they are there to sell you what they get paid for.
But, if they can't show you what you want, then you likely won't BUY!
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 8/21/2024 1:28 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:[...]
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 8/21/24 21:57, Don Y wrote: > Is there some secret handshake to
coerce *etail* sites to pay closer > attention > to your search
criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY > of >>>> your terms instead of ALL. [...]
I tried that. They'll take the intended logical operator as yet
another search term and show you *more* undesired results.
Idiots.
They aren't there to help you find what you want, they are there to sell >>> you what they get paid for.
But, if they can't show you what you want, then you likely won't BUY!
That's not how the search engines get paid. They get paid for the
adverts they show you, not for whether you buy anything from those
adverts. If the advertiser finds only a very few of his 'hits' result
in sales, he will blame the advertisment or the product, not the search engine.
It's all back-to-front because it is driven from the advertising end,
not from the searchers' end.
Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention >to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY >of your terms instead of ALL. So, you scroll through page after page of
"no, not that". Likely because they hope you will "settle" for something else >they are offering -- instead of abandoning the site in favor of another >vendor.
My current strategy is to specify only and exactly what I know to be
a faithful description of the item (e.g., by reading it off the package!) >and, look through the results until I encounter the first item that
doesn't match all of my search terms -- figuring anything after this is
just wishful thinking on their part.
Has anyone else found a better scheme? Quoting arguments? etc.
Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention
to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY of your terms instead of ALL. So, you scroll through page after page of "no, not that". Likely because they hope you will "settle" for
something else
they are offering -- instead of abandoning the site in favor of another vendor.
My current strategy is to specify only and exactly what I know to be
a faithful description of the item (e.g., by reading it off the package!) and, look through the results until I encounter the first item that
doesn't match all of my search terms -- figuring anything after this is
just wishful thinking on their part.
Has anyone else found a better scheme? Quoting arguments? etc.
Some sites own search facilities are so dire (BBC for instance) that the only
way to find stuff is to go into google and use +BBC together with +keywords >> (this may work for some badly indexed etail sites too).
The site then has to have been index-able by google/DDG/etc.
SWMBO continually complains that the "art supply" sites she
uses have atrocious search capabilities (coupled with completely
outdated inventory information)
On 21/08/2024 20:57, Don Y wrote:
Is there some secret handshake to coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention
to your search criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY >> of your terms instead of ALL. So, you scroll through page after page of
"no, not that". Likely because they hope you will "settle" for something else
they are offering -- instead of abandoning the site in favor of another
vendor.
Some are better than others. I prefer those with filters that let you choose maker, price range and whatever parameters really matter.
My current strategy is to specify only and exactly what I know to be
a faithful description of the item (e.g., by reading it off the package!)
and, look through the results until I encounter the first item that
doesn't match all of my search terms -- figuring anything after this is
just wishful thinking on their part.
Some sites own search facilities are so dire (BBC for instance) that the only way to find stuff is to go into google and use +BBC together with +keywords (this may work for some badly indexed etail sites too).
Amazon seems to have got worse in this respect. Abe books better...
Has anyone else found a better scheme? Quoting arguments? etc.
In quotes preceded by + or - to include or exclude terms works on some.
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 8/21/2024 1:28 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 8/21/24 21:57, Don Y wrote:
Is there some secret handshake to
coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention to your search
criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY of
your terms instead of ALL.
I tried that. They'll take the intended logical operator as yet
another search term and show you *more* undesired results.
Idiots.
They aren't there to help you find what you want, they are there to sell >>>> you what they get paid for.
But, if they can't show you what you want, then you likely won't BUY!
That's not how the search engines get paid. They get paid for the
adverts they show you, not for whether you buy anything from those
adverts. If the advertiser finds only a very few of his 'hits' result
in sales, he will blame the advertisment or the product, not the search
engine.
It's all back-to-front because it is driven from the advertising end,
not from the searchers' end.
That may be true of "Internet" search engines (Google, DuckDuckGo, etc.)
But, an etailer's site sells THEIR products, not items "advertised"
for other vendors.
But, an etailer's site sells THEIR products, not items "advertised"
for other vendors.
They're screwing up the search price low to high feature. You get 10 pages of 10 cent
doodads that have nothing to do with what you looking for peppered with the expensive
featured items. Last time at Amazon, I couldn't find the selection for best fit. It was
just Featured, Low to High and High to Low.
I wonder if you can get ChatGPT or other AI to help search. I haven't played with any of them,
cause I'm not sure I trust them.
On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 01:20:46 -0700 Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote: >>On 8/22/2024 12:51 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 8/21/2024 1:28 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
On 8/21/24 21:57, Don Y wrote:
Is there some secret handshake to
coerce *etail* sites to pay closer attention to your search
criteria? It seems like they produce results that match ANY of
your terms instead of ALL.
I tried that. They'll take the intended logical operator as yet
another search term and show you *more* undesired results.
Idiots.
They aren't there to help you find what you want, they are there to sell >>>>> you what they get paid for.
But, if they can't show you what you want, then you likely won't BUY!
That's not how the search engines get paid. They get paid for the
adverts they show you, not for whether you buy anything from those
adverts. If the advertiser finds only a very few of his 'hits' result
in sales, he will blame the advertisment or the product, not the search
engine.
It's all back-to-front because it is driven from the advertising end,
not from the searchers' end.
That may be true of "Internet" search engines (Google, DuckDuckGo, etc.)
But, an etailer's site sells THEIR products, not items "advertised"
for other vendors.
They're screwing up the search price low to high feature. You get 10 pages of 10 cent
doodads that have nothing to do with what you looking for peppered with the expensive
featured items. Last time at Amazon, I couldn't find the selection for best fit. It was
just Featured, Low to High and High to Low.
I wonder if you can get ChatGPT or other AI to help search. I haven't played with any of them,
cause I'm not sure I trust them.
On 8/21/2024 8:57 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 20:00:43 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 8/21/2024 7:08 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
Has anyone else found a better scheme? Quoting arguments? etc.
Which web search engine are you using? Google, DuckDuckGo, Brave,
Bing, etc:
<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_search_engines>
Or, are you using the web site's server search feature to look for
products available from a specific web vendor? I guess that might be
what you mean by an "*etail* site.
Exactly. I'm going to PICK UP an item, today. Which store will I drive >>> to? Which carries the item? Which has it IN STOCK? Where, in the store, >>> is it located?
You didn't answer my question. Are you:
[ ] searching the entire internet?
[ ] searching the vendors shopping site?
I am searching etailers' sites. Whether that is Ace Hardware, Home Depot, >Lowes, Amazon, etc. Any business that has a presence on the internet.
I already offered a few suggestions for searching the entire internet
with your choice of web search page and search options. However, I
can't offer any advice on how to customize a shopping site, which is
under the control of the vendor.
As for "going to pickup an item today", I don't do much of that. I
usually have the vendor ship me my purchases. In general, the
inventory is accurate for items that use commercial delivery services
(i.e. automated warehouse). I can't say the same for store inventory,
which is subject to various types of shrinkage, such as theft,
mis-filing, hidden behind other items, customer return problems,
packaging damage, open boxes, etc.
My latest "escapade" is the result of Amazon botching an order;
canceling it the day it was to be delivered. So, now to find
those same items elsewhere having already lost the days that
I could afford to lose WAITING for their arrival. "Who has these
items TODAY, in town and IN STOCK?"
I could spend the day driving from one store to another looking
through aisles to see if they carry them and have them in stock.
Or, I could visit web sites and try to get answers to these same
questions, venture forth and HOPE the "in stock" quantity listed
on the web site is accurate (it wasn't, at Home Depot).
My latest "escapade" is the result of Amazon botching an order;
canceling it the day it was to be delivered. So, now to find
those same items elsewhere having already lost the days that
I could afford to lose WAITING for their arrival. "Who has these
items TODAY, in town and IN STOCK?"
Ok. That means you know the maker and model of the item that you
intend to buy. In other words, you're not searching for a item to
buy, but instead are searching for a vendor that has that item in
stock.
Most online shopping sites have filters to help you select products, availability, shipping preferences, etc. Pick a likely online vendor,
find the item that you intend to buy, and see what they have to offer
in terms of availability, shipping and nearby stores that might have
stock. For example, if I find something on Harbor Freight, and the
item is not in stock, I can select another store that has it in stock.
I could spend the day driving from one store to another looking
through aisles to see if they carry them and have them in stock.
Or, you could spend a few minutes checking some likely vendors who
claim to have it in stock or claim to have expedited service. Again,
because of shrinkage in retail stores, stock count from an automated warehouse is far more accurate than stock count from a retail store.
Note that most stores do a physical inventory count once per year for
the benefit of the auditors, not the customers.
If you bought in large quantities from a wholesale warehouse, you
would probably ask for regular inventory counts of the items you
routinely purchase. With such a report, you can order "from
inventory" and have a good chance of actually getting what you order. However, in the quantities we buy for our own use, none of us would
qualify for such a service.
Or, I could visit web sites and try to get answers to these same
questions, venture forth and HOPE the "in stock" quantity listed
on the web site is accurate (it wasn't, at Home Depot).
Yep. Good, fast delivery, cheap. Pick any two.
On 8/22/2024 7:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
My latest "escapade" is the result of Amazon botching an order;
canceling it the day it was to be delivered. So, now to find
those same items elsewhere having already lost the days that
I could afford to lose WAITING for their arrival. "Who has these
items TODAY, in town and IN STOCK?"
Ok. That means you know the maker and model of the item that you
intend to buy. In other words, you're not searching for a item to
buy, but instead are searching for a vendor that has that item in
stock.
Yes. I am "letting my fingers do the walking"...
On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 20:41:53 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 8/22/2024 7:33 PM, Jeff Liebermann wrote:
My latest "escapade" is the result of Amazon botching an order;
canceling it the day it was to be delivered. So, now to find
those same items elsewhere having already lost the days that
I could afford to lose WAITING for their arrival. "Who has these
items TODAY, in town and IN STOCK?"
Ok. That means you know the maker and model of the item that you
intend to buy. In other words, you're not searching for a item to
buy, but instead are searching for a vendor that has that item in
stock.
Yes. I am "letting my fingers do the walking"...
Please re-read what I wrote. I had assumed that you know the maker
and model number of the item you want to purchase because you ordered something and Amazon allegedly botched your order. However, the
example you provided was essentially starting your search from
scratch. You had a maker (Leviton) and a part number. Why didn't you
just search for that?
When you searched for a "leviton two gang stainless steel wall plate",
you didn't continue narrow the search by the type of outlet it fits (decorative switch, toggle switch, duplex wall outlet). When I run
your search for: <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=leviton+two+gang+stainless+steel+wall+plate>
it shows 266 results (after I sorted by price low to high which tends
to eliminate duplicates) at the upper right. When I add the word
"switch" to the above searches string, it's down to 194 results. When
I add "standard size switch", it produces 169 results. If I then
group these words with quotation marks as in: <https://www.amazon.com/s?k=leviton+%22two+gang%22+%22stainless+steel%22+%22wall+plate%22+%22standard+size+switch%22>
It's down to 96 results. Most of the 96 are advertised items that you
don't want. However, the first few match the criteria. Look though
those, pick one, and order it.
Or, go to the Leviton web page, and find the exact item you want to
order.
<https://store.leviton.com/collections/home-wall-plates>
Then search Amazon for that exact number and order it.
The bad news is that Amazon has intentionally removed the "not"
operator (a minus sign) from search. I suspect this was to prevent
users from removing "featured" items (items you don't want but for
which Amazon gets paid to shove in your face). I used to be able to
trick Amazon search by using "advanced search" or by searching Amazon
from Google Search, but both of those no longer work. Sorry.
Ebay is somewhat better for searching because it has search operators: <https://www.ebay.com/sch/ebayadvsearch>
I'm out of time. Good luck (again).
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