• 200V at 10mA

    From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 21 12:39:55 2024
    Is there an off the shelf part I can use for the transformer in this?

    It's based on a design someone else posted in this group a long time ago (maybe 10 years ago by now).
    I can't remember the name of that individual.

    Watch out for wrapped lines and character encoding issues for L1, C3, C5
    If it doesn't simulate L1 likely has a u symbol issue.
    If it doesn't open, line wraps need to be fixed.


    Version 4
    SHEET 1 3064 680
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    TEXT -64 432 Left 2 !.tran 0 10m 0m startup
    TEXT 1352 -464 Left 2 !K1 L1 L2 1
    TEXT -96 480 Left 2 ;Input voltage range 11V to 15V
    TEXT 488 -480 Left 2 ;12V to 200V low power converter
    TEXT 2192 -456 Left 2 ;200V at usually not more than 10mA\nAbsolute maximum 15mA

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to Edward Rawde on Thu Aug 22 10:36:27 2024
    On 21/08/2024 17:39, Edward Rawde wrote:
    SYMATTR InstName C5

    If you want to stick with that way-over-complex design you could look
    into versapac 6 windings coupled inductors.

    I would not even try that circuit. Better to redesign to use either a
    single inductor or a dual coupled inductor like DRQ127 series. if
    necessary follow with a cockcroft-walton multiplying rectifier.

    UC3843 control chip would be ideal, cheap, reliable, easy to use,
    multisourced.

    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin @21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 22 02:44:15 2024
    On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:36:27 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 21/08/2024 17:39, Edward Rawde wrote:
    SYMATTR InstName C5

    If you want to stick with that way-over-complex design you could look
    into versapac 6 windings coupled inductors.

    I would not even try that circuit. Better to redesign to use either a
    single inductor or a dual coupled inductor like DRQ127 series. if
    necessary follow with a cockcroft-walton multiplying rectifier.

    UC3843 control chip would be ideal, cheap, reliable, easy to use, >multisourced.

    piglet

    I like the auto-flyback circuit, flyback drive into the center tap of
    a DRQ127. Then maybe a voltage doubler to harvest the p-p swing.

    And LTC3803 rocks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8jwi35owo41lfmonc8y92/LTC3803.jpg?rlkey=l3thy5h4533sxpd152ve24c26&raw=1

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 22 10:27:43 2024
    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:36:27 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 21/08/2024 17:39, Edward Rawde wrote:
    SYMATTR InstName C5

    If you want to stick with that way-over-complex design you could look
    into versapac 6 windings coupled inductors.

    I would not even try that circuit. Better to redesign to use either a
    single inductor or a dual coupled inductor like DRQ127 series. if
    necessary follow with a cockcroft-walton multiplying rectifier.

    UC3843 control chip would be ideal, cheap, reliable, easy to use,
    multisourced.

    piglet

    I like the auto-flyback circuit, flyback drive into the center tap of
    a DRQ127. Then maybe a voltage doubler to harvest the p-p swing.

    And LTC3803 rocks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8jwi35owo41lfmonc8y92/LTC3803.jpg?rlkey=l3thy5h4533sxpd152ve24c26&raw=1



    Very slick part but LT/AD usually too luxurious pricewise for me. The
    UC384x is slow and old but tenth the cost. I like the 5V reference output
    can often support a low power MCU etc


    --
    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to invalid@invalid.invalid on Thu Aug 22 08:04:03 2024
    On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 12:39:55 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Is there an off the shelf part I can use for the transformer in this?

    It's based on a design someone else posted in this group a long time ago (maybe 10 years ago by now).
    I can't remember the name of that individual.

    Watch out for wrapped lines and character encoding issues for L1, C3, C5
    If it doesn't simulate L1 likely has a u symbol issue.
    If it doesn't open, line wraps need to be fixed.


    Gets 'singular matrix node error' on Q1e here.

    Discrete circuits are fun but unappreciated.

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to legg on Thu Aug 22 10:59:49 2024
    "legg" <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote in message news:85aecjp5c77i3s7dbnibkncl7pdic3epfu@4ax.com...
    On Wed, 21 Aug 2024 12:39:55 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    Is there an off the shelf part I can use for the transformer in this?

    It's based on a design someone else posted in this group a long time ago (maybe 10 years ago by now).
    I can't remember the name of that individual.

    Watch out for wrapped lines and character encoding issues for L1, C3, C5
    If it doesn't simulate L1 likely has a u symbol issue.
    If it doesn't open, line wraps need to be fixed.


    Gets 'singular matrix node error' on Q1e here.

    I've seen that before but not with this circuit.
    Likely there's some copy/paste issue in the file.
    Make sure L1 is 50u and L2 is 5m


    Discrete circuits are fun but unappreciated.

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin @21:1/5 to erichpwagner@hotmail.com on Thu Aug 22 07:43:21 2024
    On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:27:43 -0000 (UTC), piglet
    <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:

    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:36:27 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 21/08/2024 17:39, Edward Rawde wrote:
    SYMATTR InstName C5

    If you want to stick with that way-over-complex design you could look
    into versapac 6 windings coupled inductors.

    I would not even try that circuit. Better to redesign to use either a
    single inductor or a dual coupled inductor like DRQ127 series. if
    necessary follow with a cockcroft-walton multiplying rectifier.

    UC3843 control chip would be ideal, cheap, reliable, easy to use,
    multisourced.

    piglet

    I like the auto-flyback circuit, flyback drive into the center tap of
    a DRQ127. Then maybe a voltage doubler to harvest the p-p swing.

    And LTC3803 rocks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8jwi35owo41lfmonc8y92/LTC3803.jpg?rlkey=l3thy5h4533sxpd152ve24c26&raw=1



    Very slick part but LT/AD usually too luxurious pricewise for me. The
    UC384x is slow and old but tenth the cost. I like the 5V reference output
    can often support a low power MCU etc

    True about the price. Our stuff isn't very price sensitive.

    TI has some great little switchers lately. We're paying 21 cents for
    the TPS562208DDCT spread-spectrum synchronous buck switcher.

    I wonder if it would be practical to use one of those to make the
    12/200 volt converter. That's just possible. Let's play with that
    idea.

    Unfortunately, it's a nuisance to plug the TI models into LT Spice.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Aug 22 15:10:27 2024
    On 8/22/2024 10:43 AM, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:27:43 -0000 (UTC), piglet
    <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:

    john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote:
    On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:36:27 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 21/08/2024 17:39, Edward Rawde wrote:
    SYMATTR InstName C5

    If you want to stick with that way-over-complex design you could look
    into versapac 6 windings coupled inductors.

    I would not even try that circuit. Better to redesign to use either a
    single inductor or a dual coupled inductor like DRQ127 series. if
    necessary follow with a cockcroft-walton multiplying rectifier.

    UC3843 control chip would be ideal, cheap, reliable, easy to use,
    multisourced.

    piglet

    I like the auto-flyback circuit, flyback drive into the center tap of
    a DRQ127. Then maybe a voltage doubler to harvest the p-p swing.

    And LTC3803 rocks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8jwi35owo41lfmonc8y92/LTC3803.jpg?rlkey=l3thy5h4533sxpd152ve24c26&raw=1



    Very slick part but LT/AD usually too luxurious pricewise for me. The
    UC384x is slow and old but tenth the cost. I like the 5V reference output
    can often support a low power MCU etc

    True about the price. Our stuff isn't very price sensitive.

    TI has some great little switchers lately. We're paying 21 cents for
    the TPS562208DDCT spread-spectrum synchronous buck switcher.

    I wonder if it would be practical to use one of those to make the
    12/200 volt converter. That's just possible. Let's play with that
    idea.

    Unfortunately, it's a nuisance to plug the TI models into LT Spice.


    These use a MAX1771 controller for the high voltage output:

    <https://www.amazon.com/dp/B09ZV31X69?ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_fed_asin_title>

    Somewhat surprising as that chip is stupid expensive, from US
    distributors anyway.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to piglet on Thu Aug 22 11:20:00 2024
    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:va70qr$coo9$1@dont-email.me...
    On 21/08/2024 17:39, Edward Rawde wrote:
    SYMATTR InstName C5

    If you want to stick with that way-over-complex design you could look into versapac 6 windings coupled inductors.

    Thanks piglet I will.

    Perhaps I should have mentioned that it's not for volume production and I already have suitable parts except a transformer.
    Having to buy chips would cost more and there's no education in wondering what's inside a chip.


    I would not even try that circuit. Better to redesign to use either a single inductor or a dual coupled inductor like DRQ127
    series. if necessary follow with a cockcroft-walton multiplying rectifier.

    I'm sure there are plenty of ways to turn 12V into 200V.


    UC3843 control chip would be ideal, cheap, reliable, easy to use, multisourced.

    piglet


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Michael Schwingen@21:1/5 to Edward Rawde on Sat Aug 24 09:12:44 2024
    On 2024-08-21, Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    Is there an off the shelf part I can use for the transformer in this?

    It's based on a design someone else posted in this group a long time ago (maybe 10 years ago by now).
    I can't remember the name of that individual.

    Looks similar to the requirements I had for my nixie clock.

    I used parts I already had: LT3757 as flyback controller, and a Pulse PA1137 power-over-ethernet transformer (used backwards). Works fine.

    cu
    Michael

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Lasse Langwadt@21:1/5 to john larkin on Sat Aug 24 15:01:03 2024
    On 8/22/24 11:44, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:36:27 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 21/08/2024 17:39, Edward Rawde wrote:
    SYMATTR InstName C5

    If you want to stick with that way-over-complex design you could look
    into versapac 6 windings coupled inductors.

    I would not even try that circuit. Better to redesign to use either a
    single inductor or a dual coupled inductor like DRQ127 series. if
    necessary follow with a cockcroft-walton multiplying rectifier.

    UC3843 control chip would be ideal, cheap, reliable, easy to use,
    multisourced.

    piglet

    I like the auto-flyback circuit, flyback drive into the center tap of
    a DRQ127. Then maybe a voltage doubler to harvest the p-p swing.

    And LTC3803 rocks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8jwi35owo41lfmonc8y92/LTC3803.jpg?rlkey=l3thy5h4533sxpd152ve24c26&raw=1



    $0.15 for the first 60V, then the rest of the way with doublers

    https://jlcpcb.com/partdetail/LegendSi-LGS6302EP/C5280693

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt on Sat Aug 24 13:17:45 2024
    "Lasse Langwadt" <llc@fonz.dk> wrote in message news:vaclif$1d0gn$2@dont-email.me...
    On 8/22/24 11:44, john larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 22 Aug 2024 10:36:27 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 21/08/2024 17:39, Edward Rawde wrote:
    SYMATTR InstName C5

    If you want to stick with that way-over-complex design you could look
    into versapac 6 windings coupled inductors.

    I would not even try that circuit. Better to redesign to use either a
    single inductor or a dual coupled inductor like DRQ127 series. if
    necessary follow with a cockcroft-walton multiplying rectifier.

    UC3843 control chip would be ideal, cheap, reliable, easy to use,
    multisourced.

    piglet

    I like the auto-flyback circuit, flyback drive into the center tap of
    a DRQ127. Then maybe a voltage doubler to harvest the p-p swing.

    And LTC3803 rocks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/8jwi35owo41lfmonc8y92/LTC3803.jpg?rlkey=l3thy5h4533sxpd152ve24c26&raw=1



    $0.15 for the first 60V, then the rest of the way with doublers

    https://jlcpcb.com/partdetail/LegendSi-LGS6302EP/C5280693

    Interesting little device. Thanks.

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  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Edward Rawde on Sun Aug 25 13:35:49 2024
    On 22/08/2024 2:39 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    Is there an off the shelf part I can use for the transformer in this?

    It's based on a design someone else posted in this group a long time ago (maybe 10 years ago by now).
    I can't remember the name of that individual.

    <snipped .asc file>

    There's a more elegant solution to that problem that was discussed here
    a few yeas ago.

    sci-hub.do/10.1109/tpel.2007.909192

    Abramovitz, A., & Smedley, K. (2007). A Resonant DC–DC Transformer With
    Zero Current Ripple. IEEE Transactions on Power Electronics, 22(6), 2344–2351. doi:10.1109/tpel.2007.909192

    It's essentially the Baxandall class-D oscillator with two extra
    windings on the feed inductor. The paper talks about integrating all the windings on single - carefully gapped - I-E core, but using two cores
    gives you an easily designed way of getting to the same advantage.

    At the time I posted an LTSpice simulation that made the point. The
    output wasn't entirely ripple-free, in that there were switching
    transients which would have had to have been filtered out, but that
    needed a much smaller R,L and C values than you'd have need to get rid
    of the switching frequency components.

    It won't be attractive if you have a pathological fear of transformers
    or an aversion to winding them yourself a or finding a nearby
    transformer winding shop to wind a few of them for you.

    For volume production you'd use printed windings, but thye need a
    specialist supplier too.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to Bill Sloman on Tue Aug 27 00:05:31 2024
    "Bill Sloman" <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote in message news:vae8ql$1o845$1@dont-email.me...
    On 22/08/2024 2:39 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    Is there an off the shelf part I can use for the transformer in this?

    It's based on a design someone else posted in this group a long time ago (maybe 10 years ago by now).
    I can't remember the name of that individual.

    <snipped .asc file>

    There's a more elegant solution to that problem that was discussed here a few yeas ago.

    sci-hub.do/10.1109/tpel.2007.909192

    Abramovitz, A., & Smedley, K. (2007). A Resonant DC-DC Transformer With Zero Current Ripple. IEEE Transactions on Power
    Electronics, 22(6), 2344-2351. doi:10.1109/tpel.2007.909192

    It's essentially the Baxandall class-D oscillator with two extra windings on the feed inductor. The paper talks about integrating
    all the windings on single - carefully gapped - I-E core, but using two cores gives you an easily designed way of getting to the
    same advantage.

    At the time I posted an LTSpice simulation that made the point. The output wasn't entirely ripple-free, in that there were
    switching transients which would have had to have been filtered out, but that needed a much smaller R,L and C values than you'd
    have need to get rid of the switching frequency components.

    It won't be attractive if you have a pathological fear of transformers or an aversion to winding them yourself a or finding a
    nearby transformer winding shop to wind a few of them for you.

    For volume production you'd use printed windings, but thye need a specialist supplier too.

    Thanks I'll have a look.
    I haven't done much for the past two days due to a touch of Covid.

    I have no fear of transformers or winding them myself but I'd have to admit that some of the work I could do 40 years ago might be
    best avoided now.


    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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