• A single earth moon time system

    From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 14 05:46:35 2024
    Researchers figure out how to keep clocks on the Earth, Moon in sync
    A single standardized Earth/Moon time would aid communications, enable lunar GPS.
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/08/researchers-figure-out-how-to-keep-clocks-on-the-earth-moon-in-sync/

    eeh, if they ever land on the moon again ;-)

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Aug 14 10:56:48 2024
    On 14/08/2024 06:46, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Researchers figure out how to keep clocks on the Earth, Moon in sync
    A single standardized Earth/Moon time would aid communications, enable lunar GPS.
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/08/researchers-figure-out-how-to-keep-clocks-on-the-earth-moon-in-sync/

    eeh, if they ever land on the moon again ;-)

    I'd say as a proposal it was borderline *insane*. Why complicate time
    keeping on Earth where almost everyone lives for the sake a handful of
    lunar astronauts. Working in the CoM frame will work but at an enormous
    price in the complexity of the equations of motion and book keeping.

    Ephemeris or Terrestrial Dynamical Time is good enough. Anyone doing
    ultra precise observation will already know how to apply all the
    relevant corrections to their data.

    The main ones being GRB's detection will be 1s different at the moon due
    to light travel time. Clocks on the moon will run a bit faster due to
    its much weaker gravity but just like the fix for GPS satellites you
    could adjust the divisor so that it appears to tick at SI 1s rate.

    For the number of people affected that is by far the simplest way out.

    TDT already does well enough for all practical purposes.

    https://webspace.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/deltat/deltat.htm


    --
    Martin Brown

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to '''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk on Wed Aug 14 10:57:26 2024
    On a sunny day (Wed, 14 Aug 2024 10:56:48 +0100) it happened Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <v9hv12$ddaj$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 14/08/2024 06:46, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Researchers figure out how to keep clocks on the Earth, Moon in sync
    A single standardized Earth/Moon time would aid communications, enable lunar GPS.
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/08/researchers-figure-out-how-to-keep-clocks-on-the-earth-moon-in-sync/

    eeh, if they ever land on the moon again ;-)

    I'd say as a proposal it was borderline *insane*. Why complicate time
    keeping on Earth where almost everyone lives for the sake a handful of
    lunar astronauts. Working in the CoM frame will work but at an enormous
    price in the complexity of the equations of motion and book keeping.

    Ephemeris or Terrestrial Dynamical Time is good enough. Anyone doing
    ultra precise observation will already know how to apply all the
    relevant corrections to their data.

    The main ones being GRB's detection will be 1s different at the moon due
    to light travel time. Clocks on the moon will run a bit faster due to
    its much weaker gravity but just like the fix for GPS satellites you
    could adjust the divisor so that it appears to tick at SI 1s rate.

    For the number of people affected that is by far the simplest way out.

    TDT already does well enough for all practical purposes.

    https://webspace.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/deltat/deltat.htm

    Oh yes
    I guess that it makes things only more complicated

    Time is really a very relative thing..
    There was a science program on German TV last week,
    they had 2 precision atomic clocks and took one with a car to a local mountain Sure enough when it was back and they compared the 2 clocks, the mountain one differed by several nano seconds.
    So where on earth do you measure it (time) counts too.

    I have a nice Rubidium 10 MHz frequency standard here:
    https://panteltje.nl/pub/rubidium_frequency_standard_running_IMG_3700.GIF

    Locking stuff to it is easy:
    https://www.panteltje.nl/pub/FPGA_board_with_25MHz_VCXO_locked_to_rubidium_10MHz_reference_IMG_3724.GIF

    But.. I am almost exactly at sea level, oops, but there are tides...
    Tides should also have some effect (moon) on it...

    I wish they dumped summer and winter time here. too many clocks to set..

    Le Sage also predicts clocks runing slower in a gravity well.
    Less LS particles, pendulem gets less compressed, longer... slower
    Pendulum or electron orbit..
    But as more particles from space than through the earth there must be a spectral widening.
    because in the horizonal plane there should be a different field.
    So different lengh pendulums are created.
    Well, :-)
    I have not measured spectral widening of my Rubidium standard yet.

    Time is an interesting thing...

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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Wed Aug 14 13:46:43 2024
    Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
    On 14/08/2024 06:46, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Researchers figure out how to keep clocks on the Earth, Moon in sync
    A single standardized Earth/Moon time would aid communications, enable lunar GPS.
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/08/researchers-figure-out-how-to-keep-clocks-on-the-earth-moon-in-sync/

    eeh, if they ever land on the moon again ;-)

    I'd say as a proposal it was borderline *insane*. Why complicate time
    keeping on Earth where almost everyone lives for the sake a handful of
    lunar astronauts. Working in the CoM frame will work but at an enormous
    price in the complexity of the equations of motion and book keeping.

    Ephemeris or Terrestrial Dynamical Time is good enough. Anyone doing
    ultra precise observation will already know how to apply all the
    relevant corrections to their data.

    The main ones being GRB's detection will be 1s different at the moon due
    to light travel time. Clocks on the moon will run a bit faster due to
    its much weaker gravity but just like the fix for GPS satellites you
    could adjust the divisor so that it appears to tick at SI 1s rate.

    For the number of people affected that is by far the simplest way out.

    TDT already does well enough for all practical purposes.

    https://webspace.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/deltat/deltat.htm



    You forget the bureaucratic advantages—the European Commission is well
    along with its plans to build a suitably massive new headquarters at the barycenter, to demonstrate that everything does in fact revolve around
    them.

    The laws of physics show that this position is gravitationally unstable,
    but Ms. van der Leyen assures that the laws of the EU take precedence, so
    the plan will move forward.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

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  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Thu Aug 15 02:34:38 2024
    On 14/08/2024 11:46 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
    On 14/08/2024 06:46, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Researchers figure out how to keep clocks on the Earth, Moon in sync
    A single standardized Earth/Moon time would aid communications, enable lunar GPS.
    https://arstechnica.com/science/2024/08/researchers-figure-out-how-to-keep-clocks-on-the-earth-moon-in-sync/

    eeh, if they ever land on the moon again ;-)

    I'd say as a proposal it was borderline *insane*. Why complicate time
    keeping on Earth where almost everyone lives for the sake a handful of
    lunar astronauts. Working in the CoM frame will work but at an enormous
    price in the complexity of the equations of motion and book keeping.

    Ephemeris or Terrestrial Dynamical Time is good enough. Anyone doing
    ultra precise observation will already know how to apply all the
    relevant corrections to their data.

    The main ones being GRB's detection will be 1s different at the moon due
    to light travel time. Clocks on the moon will run a bit faster due to
    its much weaker gravity but just like the fix for GPS satellites you
    could adjust the divisor so that it appears to tick at SI 1s rate.

    For the number of people affected that is by far the simplest way out.

    TDT already does well enough for all practical purposes.

    https://webspace.science.uu.nl/~gent0113/deltat/deltat.htm



    You forget the bureaucratic advantages—the European Commission is well along with its plans to build a suitably massive new headquarters at the barycenter, to demonstrate that everything does in fact revolve around
    them.

    The laws of physics show that this position is gravitationally unstable,
    but Ms. van der Leyen assures that the laws of the EU take precedence, so
    the plan will move forward.

    Don't be silly. European politicians have gone back a bit since Angela
    Merkel retired - she had a Ph.D. in Physical Chemistry (as I do) but
    hers seems to have been more computational than mine.

    Ursula Von der Leyen has a medical degree, which implies a tolerable
    grasp of science.

    American politicians seem to have be mostly been trained as lawyers, and
    may have an irrational confidence in the power of the law to control
    reality, but European politicians are mostly more or less sane.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney





    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Norton antivirus software. www.norton.com

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