• OT: Marcury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft find

    From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 30 10:46:45 2024
    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Jul 30 23:38:16 2024
    On 30/07/2024 8:46 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    The report said that it may a have ten mile thick layer of diamond
    between the mantle and the core. Getting through the mantle to get at it
    - if it is there - wouldn't be easy. There seem to be areas at the
    north pole of Mercury that are permanently shaded from the sun and would
    be colder than -161C, so you might build a mine there, but while the
    incentive might be tempting, the business of getting hold of any diamond
    would be discouragingly difficult.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Norton antivirus software. www.norton.com

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  • From John Robertson@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Jul 30 08:22:39 2024
    On 2024/07/30 3:46 a.m., Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    By the time we can mine Mercury, we will be able to make diamonds as
    cheap as water anyway.

    John ;-#)#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Tue Jul 30 16:38:50 2024
    John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:

    On 2024/07/30 3:46 a.m., Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenge r#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    By the time we can mine Mercury, we will be able to make diamonds as
    cheap as water anyway.

    You think the price of water will have gone up by that much?

    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From john larkin @21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 30 10:46:32 2024
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Tue Jul 30 23:10:01 2024
    On 7/30/24 19:46, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.


    Which would be good, because it's useful!

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to john larkin on Tue Jul 30 21:25:13 2024
    On 30/07/2024 18:46, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Diamonds aren't really all *that* rare - a cartel controls production
    and marketing. They were bricking themselves when synthetic gem quality diamonds became possible by CVD. You can tell the difference with a
    loupe even now and particularly in the early days since they tended to
    have nitrogen impurities and were yellow. The best labs have got
    remarkably good at it in the past couple of decades!

    https://4cs.gia.edu/en-us/laboratory-grown-diamond/#

    Now De Beers has taken to monogramming their "natural diamonds" to keep
    the prices high.

    https://www.debeers.co.uk/en-gb/natural-diamonds.html

    Industrial diamonds are much less exacting synthesis conditions but they generally look black like carborundum from graphite impurities only much harder.

    "Diamonds are forever" isn't quite true either. If you get one red hot
    and then drop it into a jar of oxygen it burns rather brightly.

    --
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From John Robertson@21:1/5 to Liz Tuddenham on Tue Jul 30 15:16:10 2024
    On 2024/07/30 8:38 a.m., Liz Tuddenham wrote:
    John Robertson <jrr@flippers.com> wrote:

    On 2024/07/30 3:46 a.m., Jan Panteltje wrote:
    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenge >>> r#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    By the time we can mine Mercury, we will be able to make diamonds as
    cheap as water anyway.

    You think the price of water will have gone up by that much?


    Hey! Be nice to me, I sell the jukeboxes that take your records!

    (ducking)

    Energy available to the human race seems to be growing around
    2.3%/annum, hence insanely cheap diamonds at some point in the future.
    They will make a nice durable sandpaper!

    https://dothemath.ucsd.edu/2011/07/galactic-scale-energy/


    John ;-#)#
    --
    (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
    John's Jukes Ltd.
    #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
    (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
    www.flippers.com
    "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to john larkin on Wed Jul 31 12:38:15 2024
    On 31/07/2024 3:46 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Wrong. Diamond is light, hard, strong and has very high thermal
    conductivity. You can buy synthetic diamond heat-sinks right now.

    https://www.msesupplies.com/products/diamond-heat-sink-thermal-conductivity-1500w-m-k?variant=39601902846010

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Norton antivirus software. www.norton.com

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 31 05:59:26 2024
    On a sunny day (Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:32 -0700) it happened john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <ik9iaj9g0jp202thk66cgaeh0d24j380af@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.


    Sure, but the first sample return will pay for itself.
    And marketing those as 'the first Mercury diamonds' may help too.
    NASA always asking for more budget.. there you go!
    Few consumers want moon dust...

    I know moon rocks was a big business.. Some got stolen and resold,
    guy got caught.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Jul 31 13:10:56 2024
    On 31/07/2024 06:59, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:32 -0700) it happened john larkin <jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <ik9iaj9g0jp202thk66cgaeh0d24j380af@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.


    Sure, but the first sample return will pay for itself.
    And marketing those as 'the first Mercury diamonds' may help too.
    NASA always asking for more budget.. there you go!
    Few consumers want moon dust...

    I know moon rocks was a big business.. Some got stolen and resold,
    guy got caught.

    Some collectors will pay silly money for anything rare enough. The main
    use for moon rock was to determine the age of the Moon or rather the
    time of last melting of the pieces of it that they brought back.

    I reckon less than 1kg all up of moon rock was actually used
    destructively in this way - the rest is sat in museum cabinets (and in a
    few professors trophy cabinets). Looks very much like terrestrial basalt
    to the trained and untrained eye alike (think tarmac carpark rock).

    Iron meteorites with huge crystals in are much harder to fake.

    --
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 31 14:14:33 2024
    In article <v8cjsm$j8ps$1@solani.org>, alien@comet.invalid says...

    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.




    Diamonds are only valuable because of the De Beers convincing the women
    they need them. Almost all diamonds used to go through them and they
    would only let a few out and if you tried your own mine and a store
    bought some from you the De Beers would cut them off.

    They are like paint. Anyone can get paint and put it on a canvas but if
    you have the big name you get thousands or millions for the painting.
    Diamonds can be cut and put into jewelry as an art form.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From boB@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 31 13:04:54 2024
    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 12:38:15 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 31/07/2024 3:46 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Wrong. Diamond is light, hard, strong and has very high thermal
    conductivity. You can buy synthetic diamond heat-sinks right now.

    https://www.msesupplies.com/products/diamond-heat-sink-thermal-conductivity-1500w-m-k?variant=39601902846010

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    Would love to have some diamond (man-made is fine) heat sink
    insulator material !

    boB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to boB on Wed Jul 31 15:00:49 2024
    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 13:04:54 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 12:38:15 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    wrote:

    On 31/07/2024 3:46 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Wrong. Diamond is light, hard, strong and has very high thermal >>conductivity. You can buy synthetic diamond heat-sinks right now.
    https://www.msesupplies.com/products/diamond-heat-sink-thermal-conductivity-1500w-m-k?variant=39601902846010

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    Would love to have some diamond (man-made is fine) heat sink
    insulator material !

    boB


    If you mean an insulator between a power transistor and an aluminum or
    copper heat sink, a thin aluminum nitride insulator would be almost as
    good as diamond. Or hard anodize.

    Really using the heat sink would require lateral heat spreading,
    namely a big thick slab of diamond.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to rmowery42@charter.net on Thu Aug 1 05:36:43 2024
    On a sunny day (Wed, 31 Jul 2024 14:14:33 -0400) it happened Ralph Mowery <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote in <MPG.411449149ba41b6d989fb8@news.eternal-september.org>:

    In article <v8cjsm$j8ps$1@solani.org>, alien@comet.invalid says...

    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.




    Diamonds are only valuable because of the De Beers convincing the women
    they need them. Almost all diamonds used to go through them and they
    would only let a few out and if you tried your own mine and a store
    bought some from you the De Beers would cut them off.

    They are like paint. Anyone can get paint and put it on a canvas but if
    you have the big name you get thousands or millions for the painting. >Diamonds can be cut and put into jewelry as an art form.

    Yea, I would never even want a Rembrandt or Monalisa ...
    I once had a Polaroid instant camera, paper pictures!

    Now you need an expensive color printer and ink to hang your picture on the wall..
    Oh well I have a Kodak electronic picture frame...
    Shows sequence of sky views and stellar stuff, other fun things, runs all day.. been working fine for decennia.. Not very big..

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Fri Aug 2 02:28:31 2024
    On 1/08/2024 4:14 am, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <v8cjsm$j8ps$1@solani.org>, alien@comet.invalid says...

    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Diamonds are only valuable because of the De Beers convincing the women
    they need them. Almost all diamonds used to go through them and they
    would only let a few out and if you tried your own mine and a store
    bought some from you the De Beers would cut them off.

    They are like paint. Anyone can get paint and put it on a canvas but if
    you have the big name you get thousands or millions for the painting. Diamonds can be cut and put into jewelry as an art form.

    Somebody hasn't heard of industrial diamonds.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond

    "Eighty percent of mined diamonds (equal to about 135,000,000 carats
    (27,000 kg) annually) are unsuitable for use as gemstones and are used industrially. In addition to mined diamonds, synthetic diamonds found industrial applications almost immediately after their invention in the
    1950s; in 2014, 4,500,000,000 carats (900,000 kg) of synthetic diamonds
    were produced, 90% of which were produced in China. Approximately 90% of diamond grinding grit is currently of synthetic origin."

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Norton antivirus software. www.norton.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Thu Aug 1 16:14:44 2024
    In article <v8gd3o$28fgc$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says...

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Diamonds are only valuable because of the De Beers convincing the women they need them. Almost all diamonds used to go through them and they
    would only let a few out and if you tried your own mine and a store
    bought some from you the De Beers would cut them off.

    They are like paint. Anyone can get paint and put it on a canvas but if you have the big name you get thousands or millions for the painting. Diamonds can be cut and put into jewelry as an art form.

    Somebody hasn't heard of industrial diamonds.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond

    "Eighty percent of mined diamonds (equal to about 135,000,000 carats
    (27,000 kg) annually) are unsuitable for use as gemstones and are used industrially. In addition to mined diamonds, synthetic diamonds found industrial applications almost immediately after their invention in the 1950s; in 2014, 4,500,000,000 carats (900,000 kg) of synthetic diamonds
    were produced, 90% of which were produced in China. Approximately 90% of diamond grinding grit is currently of synthetic origin."




    Yes there are plenty of industrial diamonds and they are almost
    worthless compaired to the jewelry quality.

    In not too long ago time there has been a way to make them instead of
    mined diamonds.

    Diamonds are rated by how well they can be converted to jewel quality.
    The 4 C's. Color cut clairty carat. If they do not measure up they go
    to the industrial bin and are almost worthless.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From boB@21:1/5 to jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com on Thu Aug 1 13:33:11 2024
    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 15:00:49 -0700, John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 13:04:54 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 12:38:15 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>wrote:

    On 31/07/2024 3:46 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds >>>>> https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Wrong. Diamond is light, hard, strong and has very high thermal >>>conductivity. You can buy synthetic diamond heat-sinks right now.
    https://www.msesupplies.com/products/diamond-heat-sink-thermal-conductivity-1500w-m-k?variant=39601902846010

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    Would love to have some diamond (man-made is fine) heat sink
    insulator material !

    boB


    If you mean an insulator between a power transistor and an aluminum or
    copper heat sink, a thin aluminum nitride insulator would be almost as
    good as diamond. Or hard anodize.

    Really using the heat sink would require lateral heat spreading,
    namely a big thick slab of diamond.

    John, this would be used as a lower thermal resistance insulated
    interface from case to heat sink. I wonder if you still need to use
    the white bird shit on that interface ?

    boB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to boB on Thu Aug 1 14:16:46 2024
    On Thu, 01 Aug 2024 13:33:11 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 15:00:49 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 13:04:54 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 12:38:15 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>wrote:

    On 31/07/2024 3:46 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds >>>>>> https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Wrong. Diamond is light, hard, strong and has very high thermal >>>>conductivity. You can buy synthetic diamond heat-sinks right now.
    https://www.msesupplies.com/products/diamond-heat-sink-thermal-conductivity-1500w-m-k?variant=39601902846010

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    Would love to have some diamond (man-made is fine) heat sink
    insulator material !

    boB


    If you mean an insulator between a power transistor and an aluminum or >>copper heat sink, a thin aluminum nitride insulator would be almost as
    good as diamond. Or hard anodize.

    Really using the heat sink would require lateral heat spreading,
    namely a big thick slab of diamond.

    John, this would be used as a lower thermal resistance insulated
    interface from case to heat sink. I wonder if you still need to use
    the white bird shit on that interface ?

    boB


    Silicone grease makes a huge difference in thermal conductivity,
    especially if the mating parts are not optically flat.

    A typical TO-220 mosfet tab can be bowed by a couple of mils, and heat
    sinks are usually extruded, not very flat. Air gaps are rotten heat
    conductors.

    Given some grease, keep the insulator thin.

    Polycrystalline diamond is crazy expensive.

    One trick is to bolt a transistor directly to a copper block, to
    spread the heat footprint, and insulate that from the main heat sink.

    Or just parallel a few fets to spread the heat around.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to boB@K7IQ.com on Fri Aug 2 04:50:49 2024
    On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Aug 2024 13:33:11 -0700) it happened boB
    <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote in <06snajlsbbf7iaeioo8tivbn0ncgk633fc@4ax.com>:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 15:00:49 -0700, John Larkin ><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 13:04:54 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 12:38:15 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>wrote:

    On 31/07/2024 3:46 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>> wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds >>>>>> https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Wrong. Diamond is light, hard, strong and has very high thermal >>>>conductivity. You can buy synthetic diamond heat-sinks right now.
    https://www.msesupplies.com/products/diamond-heat-sink-thermal-conductivity-1500w-m-k?variant=39601902846010

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    Would love to have some diamond (man-made is fine) heat sink
    insulator material !

    boB


    If you mean an insulator between a power transistor and an aluminum or >>copper heat sink, a thin aluminum nitride insulator would be almost as
    good as diamond. Or hard anodize.

    Really using the heat sink would require lateral heat spreading,
    namely a big thick slab of diamond.

    John, this would be used as a lower thermal resistance insulated
    interface from case to heat sink. I wonder if you still need to use
    the white bird shit on that interface ?

    What's wrong with Mica?
    Has been working for decennia here.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Fri Aug 2 22:13:38 2024
    On 2/08/2024 6:14 am, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <v8gd3o$28fgc$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says...

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Diamonds are only valuable because of the De Beers convincing the women
    they need them. Almost all diamonds used to go through them and they
    would only let a few out and if you tried your own mine and a store
    bought some from you the De Beers would cut them off.

    They are like paint. Anyone can get paint and put it on a canvas but if >>> you have the big name you get thousands or millions for the painting.
    Diamonds can be cut and put into jewelry as an art form.

    Somebody hasn't heard of industrial diamonds.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diamond

    "Eighty percent of mined diamonds (equal to about 135,000,000 carats
    (27,000 kg) annually) are unsuitable for use as gemstones and are used
    industrially. In addition to mined diamonds, synthetic diamonds found
    industrial applications almost immediately after their invention in the
    1950s; in 2014, 4,500,000,000 carats (900,000 kg) of synthetic diamonds
    were produced, 90% of which were produced in China. Approximately 90% of
    diamond grinding grit is currently of synthetic origin."

    Yes there are plenty of industrial diamonds and they are almost
    worthless compared to the jewelry quality.

    In not too long ago time there has been a way to make them instead of
    mined diamonds.

    Diamonds are rated by how well they can be converted to jewel quality.
    The 4 C's. Color cut clairty carat. If they do not measure up they go
    to the industrial bin and are almost worthless.

    To jewellers. We mine 27 metric tons of diamonds, and make 900 metric
    tons of synthetic diamonds,essentially all for industrial applications.

    We wouldn't be doing that if industrial diamonds were "almost
    worthless". The fact the gem-quality diamonds can be sold for a lot more
    money than industrial diamonds doesn't make industrial diamonds
    worthless - if gem-quality diamonds fell out of fashion we'd still be
    digging up and making a lot of industrial diamonds.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Norton antivirus software. www.norton.com

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  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 2 10:28:09 2024
    In article <v8iihu$2q9s6$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says...

    To jewellers. We mine 27 metric tons of diamonds, and make 900 metric
    tons of synthetic diamonds,essentially all for industrial applications.

    We wouldn't be doing that if industrial diamonds were "almost
    worthless". The fact the gem-quality diamonds can be sold for a lot more money than industrial diamonds doesn't make industrial diamonds
    worthless - if gem-quality diamonds fell out of fashion we'd still be
    digging up and making a lot of industrial diamonds.




    From what I could find in a quick search the industrial diamonds are
    only about 10 to 20 dollars per carat vers the seveal thousand dollars
    the jewel quality ones would cost. That is where I base my
    'worthless' price at.
    Industry still uses a lot of them in many processes so they are valuable
    for use but worthless for money cost.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Sat Aug 3 02:09:59 2024
    On 3/08/2024 12:28 am, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <v8iihu$2q9s6$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says...

    To jewellers. We mine 27 metric tons of diamonds, and make 900 metric
    tons of synthetic diamonds,essentially all for industrial applications.

    We wouldn't be doing that if industrial diamonds were "almost
    worthless". The fact the gem-quality diamonds can be sold for a lot more
    money than industrial diamonds doesn't make industrial diamonds
    worthless - if gem-quality diamonds fell out of fashion we'd still be
    digging up and making a lot of industrial diamonds.

    From what I could find in a quick search the industrial diamonds are
    only about 10 to 20 dollars per carat versus the several thousand dollars
    the jewel quality ones would cost. That is where I base my
    'worthless' price at.

    Cheap isn't the same as worthless.

    Industry still uses a lot of them in many processes so they are valuable
    for use but worthless for money cost.

    80% of mined diamonds - 135 million carats - are fit only for use as
    industrial diamonds, but that's still a couple of billion dollars at 10
    to 20 dollars a carat. The 20% of mined diamonds that can be sold as
    gemstones are worth about hundred times more per carat, but only twenty
    times more in aggregate. We synthesise 33 times more iduatrial diamonds
    than than we dig up, so the market for industrial diamonds is clearly
    bigger than the market for gemstones.

    Nothing would stop working if the gemstone supply was cut off, but
    industrial diamonds keep industry working.

    The gemstone business is a luxury trade that piggy-backs off the
    industrial diamond supply chain.

    Diamond mining supports several rather unpleasant regimes

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blood_diamond

    and rich women really ought prefer synthesised diamonds.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Norton antivirus software. www.norton.com

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  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 2 17:29:39 2024
    In article <v8j0d5$2t70j$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says...

    From what I could find in a quick search the industrial diamonds are
    only about 10 to 20 dollars per carat versus the several thousand dollars the jewel quality ones would cost. That is where I base my
    'worthless' price at.

    Cheap isn't the same as worthless.




    My bad choice of words. I should have said something more like they are
    not worth much money. They are very useful in industry, just do not
    cost anything at all like the jewelery ones.

    Years ago I had an uncle that worked for a brick company and he used a
    saw to cut the bricks for samples. He had saved a jar full of diamonds
    that came off the saw blades. Thought he had some big money comming to
    him. Found out that that whole jar would only sell for a few dollars.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Sat Aug 3 00:00:39 2024
    On 8/2/24 23:29, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <v8j0d5$2t70j$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says...

    From what I could find in a quick search the industrial diamonds are
    only about 10 to 20 dollars per carat versus the several thousand dollars >>> the jewel quality ones would cost. That is where I base my
    'worthless' price at.

    Cheap isn't the same as worthless.




    My bad choice of words. I should have said something more like they are
    not worth much money. They are very useful in industry, just do not
    cost anything at all like the jewelery ones.

    Years ago I had an uncle that worked for a brick company and he used a
    saw to cut the bricks for samples. He had saved a jar full of diamonds
    that came off the saw blades. Thought he had some big money comming to
    him. Found out that that whole jar would only sell for a few dollars.




    Diamond is amazing. We had this benchtop wheel grinder to shape and
    sharpen steel turning tools, and somebody had tried to grind a piece
    of aluminium on it. A diamond-tipped wheel dressing tool went through
    it as if it was butter. It's kind of amazing to see a grinding wheel
    yield so easily to a tiny piece of diamond.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Jeroen Belleman on Fri Aug 2 22:39:37 2024
    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
    On 8/2/24 23:29, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <v8j0d5$2t70j$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says...

    From what I could find in a quick search the industrial diamonds are
    only about 10 to 20 dollars per carat versus the several thousand dollars >>>> the jewel quality ones would cost. That is where I base my
    'worthless' price at.

    Cheap isn't the same as worthless.




    My bad choice of words. I should have said something more like they are
    not worth much money. They are very useful in industry, just do not
    cost anything at all like the jewelery ones.

    Years ago I had an uncle that worked for a brick company and he used a
    saw to cut the bricks for samples. He had saved a jar full of diamonds
    that came off the saw blades. Thought he had some big money comming to
    him. Found out that that whole jar would only sell for a few dollars.




    Diamond is amazing. We had this benchtop wheel grinder to shape and
    sharpen steel turning tools, and somebody had tried to grind a piece
    of aluminium on it. A diamond-tipped wheel dressing tool went through
    it as if it was butter. It's kind of amazing to see a grinding wheel
    yield so easily to a tiny piece of diamond.

    Jeroen Belleman


    Probably gummed it up pretty badly, too. Some alcohol makes a big
    difference cutting Al.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Sat Aug 3 16:43:07 2024
    On 8/3/24 00:39, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
    On 8/2/24 23:29, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <v8j0d5$2t70j$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says... >>>>>
    From what I could find in a quick search the industrial diamonds are >>>>> only about 10 to 20 dollars per carat versus the several thousand dollars >>>>> the jewel quality ones would cost. That is where I base my
    'worthless' price at.

    Cheap isn't the same as worthless.




    My bad choice of words. I should have said something more like they are >>> not worth much money. They are very useful in industry, just do not
    cost anything at all like the jewelery ones.

    Years ago I had an uncle that worked for a brick company and he used a
    saw to cut the bricks for samples. He had saved a jar full of diamonds
    that came off the saw blades. Thought he had some big money comming to
    him. Found out that that whole jar would only sell for a few dollars.




    Diamond is amazing. We had this benchtop wheel grinder to shape and
    sharpen steel turning tools, and somebody had tried to grind a piece
    of aluminium on it. A diamond-tipped wheel dressing tool went through
    it as if it was butter. It's kind of amazing to see a grinding wheel
    yield so easily to a tiny piece of diamond.

    Jeroen Belleman


    Probably gummed it up pretty badly, too. Some alcohol makes a big
    difference cutting Al.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Yes, that was the reason for dressing the wheel. People shouldn't
    try to grind aluminium on these things. It irritates the mechanic.
    We hate people who don't clean files, too.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Glen Walpert@21:1/5 to Jeroen Belleman on Tue Aug 6 22:39:08 2024
    On Sat, 3 Aug 2024 16:43:07 +0200, Jeroen Belleman wrote:

    On 8/3/24 00:39, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
    <clip>

    Diamond is amazing. We had this benchtop wheel grinder to shape and
    sharpen steel turning tools, and somebody had tried to grind a piece
    of aluminium on it. A diamond-tipped wheel dressing tool went through
    it as if it was butter. It's kind of amazing to see a grinding wheel
    yield so easily to a tiny piece of diamond.

    Jeroen Belleman


    Probably gummed it up pretty badly, too. Some alcohol makes a big
    difference cutting Al.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Yes, that was the reason for dressing the wheel. People shouldn't try to grind aluminium on these things. It irritates the mechanic.
    We hate people who don't clean files, too.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Grinding non-ferrous materials with any grinding wheel not specifically
    rated for non-ferrous not only gums up the wheel, it risks grinding wheel shattering from crack initiation by metal jammed into the wheel pores. I
    once worked with a shop foreman who made sure everyone knew this by
    relating an incident where someone was killed when a large wheel shattered while someone was grinding aluminum on it. Grinding wheels rated for use
    with non-ferrous materials are readily available but rarely found
    installed on bench grinders, probably because grinding soft materials
    which can easily be filed rarely makes sense.

    Glen

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl@21:1/5 to alien@comet.invalid on Sat Aug 17 14:23:53 2024
    In article <v8cjsm$j8ps$1@solani.org>,
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:32 -0700) it happened john larkin ><jlarkin_highland_tech> wrote in <ik9iaj9g0jp202thk66cgaeh0d24j380af@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds
    https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.


    Sure, but the first sample return will pay for itself.
    And marketing those as 'the first Mercury diamonds' may help too.
    NASA always asking for more budget.. there you go!
    Few consumers want moon dust...

    It may be less attractive if you include the cost of shipping.


    I know moon rocks was a big business.. Some got stolen and resold,
    guy got caught.




    --
    Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
    You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
    hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
    the air. First gain is a cat purring. - the Wise from Antrim -

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl@21:1/5 to jeroen@nospam.please on Sat Aug 17 14:34:00 2024
    In article <v8jkp3$312tq$1@dont-email.me>,
    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
    On 8/2/24 23:29, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <v8j0d5$2t70j$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says...

    From what I could find in a quick search the industrial diamonds are >>>> only about 10 to 20 dollars per carat versus the several thousand dollars >>>> the jewel quality ones would cost. That is where I base my
    'worthless' price at.

    Cheap isn't the same as worthless.




    My bad choice of words. I should have said something more like they are
    not worth much money. They are very useful in industry, just do not
    cost anything at all like the jewelery ones.

    Years ago I had an uncle that worked for a brick company and he used a
    saw to cut the bricks for samples. He had saved a jar full of diamonds
    that came off the saw blades. Thought he had some big money comming to
    him. Found out that that whole jar would only sell for a few dollars.




    Diamond is amazing. We had this benchtop wheel grinder to shape and
    sharpen steel turning tools, and somebody had tried to grind a piece
    of aluminium on it. A diamond-tipped wheel dressing tool went through
    it as if it was butter. It's kind of amazing to see a grinding wheel
    yield so easily to a tiny piece of diamond.

    You need not have a diamond for this. Steel wheel dressers are used
    before that. It works by removing the top layer of the wheel, where the dull grains are, by hitting it.


    Jeroen Belleman

    Groetjes Albert
    --
    Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
    You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
    hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
    the air. First gain is a cat purring. - the Wise from Antrim -

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl@21:1/5 to jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com on Sat Aug 17 14:21:34 2024
    In article <daunajltg82fsitpn6uje2p75agjhur5j5@4ax.com>,
    John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 01 Aug 2024 13:33:11 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 15:00:49 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 13:04:54 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 12:38:15 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>wrote:

    On 31/07/2024 3:46 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds >>>>>>> https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic >>>>>> miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Wrong. Diamond is light, hard, strong and has very high thermal >>>>>conductivity. You can buy synthetic diamond heat-sinks right now.
    https://www.msesupplies.com/products/diamond-heat-sink-thermal-conductivity-1500w-m-k?variant=39601902846010

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    Would love to have some diamond (man-made is fine) heat sink
    insulator material !

    boB


    If you mean an insulator between a power transistor and an aluminum or >>>copper heat sink, a thin aluminum nitride insulator would be almost as >>>good as diamond. Or hard anodize.

    Really using the heat sink would require lateral heat spreading,
    namely a big thick slab of diamond.

    John, this would be used as a lower thermal resistance insulated
    interface from case to heat sink. I wonder if you still need to use
    the white bird shit on that interface ?

    boB


    Silicone grease makes a huge difference in thermal conductivity,
    especially if the mating parts are not optically flat.

    A typical TO-220 mosfet tab can be bowed by a couple of mils, and heat
    sinks are usually extruded, not very flat. Air gaps are rotten heat >conductors.

    Given some grease, keep the insulator thin.

    Polycrystalline diamond is crazy expensive.

    One trick is to bolt a transistor directly to a copper block, to
    spread the heat footprint, and insulate that from the main heat sink.

    Or just parallel a few fets to spread the heat around.

    Putting my machinist cap one.
    It is not particularly hard to lap the two surfaces, that virtually
    no air gap result. This is used to construct parallel gauges, they
    are so flat that the cohesion holds it together.

    Whether it holds up with thermal stress,I don't know.

    Groetjes Albert
    --
    Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
    You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
    hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
    the air. First gain is a cat purring. - the Wise from Antrim -

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl on Sat Aug 17 12:44:12 2024
    On a sunny day (Sat, 17 Aug 2024 14:34:00 +0200) it happened albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote in <nnd$50435767$685e9fd6@2c245718329e86b4>:

    In article <v8jkp3$312tq$1@dont-email.me>,
    Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:
    On 8/2/24 23:29, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <v8j0d5$2t70j$1@dont-email.me>, bill.sloman@ieee.org says... >>>>>
    From what I could find in a quick search the industrial diamonds are >>>>> only about 10 to 20 dollars per carat versus the several thousand dollars >>>>> the jewel quality ones would cost. That is where I base my
    'worthless' price at.

    Cheap isn't the same as worthless.




    My bad choice of words. I should have said something more like they are >>> not worth much money. They are very useful in industry, just do not
    cost anything at all like the jewelery ones.

    Years ago I had an uncle that worked for a brick company and he used a
    saw to cut the bricks for samples. He had saved a jar full of diamonds
    that came off the saw blades. Thought he had some big money comming to
    him. Found out that that whole jar would only sell for a few dollars.




    Diamond is amazing. We had this benchtop wheel grinder to shape and
    sharpen steel turning tools, and somebody had tried to grind a piece
    of aluminium on it. A diamond-tipped wheel dressing tool went through
    it as if it was butter. It's kind of amazing to see a grinding wheel
    yield so easily to a tiny piece of diamond.

    You need not have a diamond for this. Steel wheel dressers are used
    before that. It works by removing the top layer of the wheel, where the dull >grains are, by hitting it.

    Few days ago I cut a dead tree in my garden with a flex
    cut just below the ground level, so I can mow grass over it...

    Five minutes work.

    Flex is a cool tool!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin @21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 17 07:26:33 2024
    On Fri, 02 Aug 2024 04:50:49 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Thu, 01 Aug 2024 13:33:11 -0700) it happened boB ><boB@K7IQ.com> wrote in <06snajlsbbf7iaeioo8tivbn0ncgk633fc@4ax.com>:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 15:00:49 -0700, John Larkin >><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 13:04:54 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 12:38:15 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>wrote:

    On 31/07/2024 3:46 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>> wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds >>>>>>> https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic >>>>>> miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Wrong. Diamond is light, hard, strong and has very high thermal >>>>>conductivity. You can buy synthetic diamond heat-sinks right now.
    https://www.msesupplies.com/products/diamond-heat-sink-thermal-conductivity-1500w-m-k?variant=39601902846010

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    Would love to have some diamond (man-made is fine) heat sink
    insulator material !

    boB


    If you mean an insulator between a power transistor and an aluminum or >>>copper heat sink, a thin aluminum nitride insulator would be almost as >>>good as diamond. Or hard anodize.

    Really using the heat sink would require lateral heat spreading,
    namely a big thick slab of diamond.

    John, this would be used as a lower thermal resistance insulated
    interface from case to heat sink. I wonder if you still need to use
    the white bird shit on that interface ?

    What's wrong with Mica?
    Has been working for decennia here.

    It's cheap and thin, but AlN conducts heat about 200x better.

    1 mil thick hard anodize is really good, up to 100 volts or so.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin @21:1/5 to albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl on Sat Aug 17 07:21:07 2024
    On Sat, 17 Aug 2024 14:21:34 +0200, albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl wrote:

    In article <daunajltg82fsitpn6uje2p75agjhur5j5@4ax.com>,
    John Larkin <jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 01 Aug 2024 13:33:11 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 15:00:49 -0700, John Larkin >>><jjlarkin@highlandtechnology.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 13:04:54 -0700, boB <boB@K7IQ.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 31 Jul 2024 12:38:15 +1000, Bill Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> >>>>>wrote:

    On 31/07/2024 3:46 am, john larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 30 Jul 2024 10:46:45 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>>> wrote:

    Mercury has a layer of diamond 10 miles thick, NASA spacecraft finds >>>>>>>> https://www.space.com/mercury-diamond-layer-10-miles-thick-nasa-messenger#main

    Now there is an incentive to go!

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic >>>>>>> miles of diamonds would trash its value.

    Wrong. Diamond is light, hard, strong and has very high thermal >>>>>>conductivity. You can buy synthetic diamond heat-sinks right now.
    https://www.msesupplies.com/products/diamond-heat-sink-thermal-conductivity-1500w-m-k?variant=39601902846010

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    Would love to have some diamond (man-made is fine) heat sink >>>>>insulator material !

    boB


    If you mean an insulator between a power transistor and an aluminum or >>>>copper heat sink, a thin aluminum nitride insulator would be almost as >>>>good as diamond. Or hard anodize.

    Really using the heat sink would require lateral heat spreading,
    namely a big thick slab of diamond.

    John, this would be used as a lower thermal resistance insulated >>>interface from case to heat sink. I wonder if you still need to use
    the white bird shit on that interface ?

    boB


    Silicone grease makes a huge difference in thermal conductivity,
    especially if the mating parts are not optically flat.

    A typical TO-220 mosfet tab can be bowed by a couple of mils, and heat >>sinks are usually extruded, not very flat. Air gaps are rotten heat >>conductors.

    Given some grease, keep the insulator thin.

    Polycrystalline diamond is crazy expensive.

    One trick is to bolt a transistor directly to a copper block, to
    spread the heat footprint, and insulate that from the main heat sink.

    Or just parallel a few fets to spread the heat around.

    Putting my machinist cap one.
    It is not particularly hard to lap the two surfaces, that virtually
    no air gap result. This is used to construct parallel gauges, they
    are so flat that the cohesion holds it together.

    Whether it holds up with thermal stress,I don't know.

    Groetjes Albert

    Lapping a fet and its heat sink will seriously reduce theta, but it's
    a lot of work. Grease is easier. But the thermal conductivity of
    aluminum is still a bottleneck.

    Heat sinks and machining are both expensive, and mosfets are cheap. It
    often makes sense to use several fets, distributed about a heat sink,
    to avoid hot spots.

    I assume that heat sink vendors test theta by applying a big, uniform
    heat source. Real parts tend to be small spots, and local heating
    makes theta go way up.

    We have several new products that use copper CPU coolers on the board,
    to cool mosfets. They are magic.

    https://highlandtechnology.com/Product/P945

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  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 17 12:39:33 2024
    In article <nnd$39e77d8d$21960d9a@2c245718329e86b4>,
    albert@spenarnc.xs4all.nl says...

    Diamond, like gold, is valuable because it's rare. Accessing cubic
    miles of diamonds would trash its value.


    Sure, but the first sample return will pay for itself.
    And marketing those as 'the first Mercury diamonds' may help too.
    NASA always asking for more budget.. there you go!
    Few consumers want moon dust...

    It may be less attractive if you include the cost of shipping.




    Like many things the cost of shipping is ofen more than the cost of the
    item.

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