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  • More signs of life on Mars?

    From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 26 05:25:55 2024
    No, NASA hasn’t found life on Mars yet, but the latest discovery is intriguing
    "These spots are a big surprise."
    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/07/no-nasa-hasnt-found-life-on-mars-yet-but-the-latest-discovery-is-intriguing/

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 26 05:47:11 2024
    No, NASA hasn’t found life on Mars yet, but the latest discovery is intriguing
    "These spots are a big surprise."
    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/07/no-nasa-hasnt-found-life-on-mars-yet-but-the-latest-discovery-is-intriguing/

    PS
    Seems NASA needs more budget again....
    Every time they need more money they talk about possible traces of life.

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  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Fri Jul 26 16:29:32 2024
    On 26/07/2024 3:25 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    No, NASA hasn’t found life on Mars yet, but the latest discovery is intriguing
    "These spots are a big surprise."
    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/07/no-nasa-hasnt-found-life-on-mars-yet-but-the-latest-discovery-is-intriguing/

    "Now, scientists can point to rocks like Chevaya Falls and say this is precisely why they must be studied in ultra-capable labs back on Earth."

    Every technical puff is designed to extract money from somebody. The
    fact that similar-looking spots of rocks on earth are created by microbiological activity isn't exactly persuasive evidence that this is
    what caused them on Mars.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --
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  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to Bill Sloman on Fri Jul 26 08:07:51 2024
    On 26/07/2024 07:29, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 26/07/2024 3:25 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    No, NASA hasn’t found life on Mars yet, but the latest discovery is intriguing
    "These spots are a big surprise."
    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/07/no-nasa-hasnt-found-life-on-mars-yet-but-the-latest-discovery-is-intriguing/

    "Now, scientists can point to rocks like Chevaya Falls and say this is precisely why they must be studied in ultra-capable labs back on Earth."

    Every technical puff is designed to extract money from somebody. The
    fact that similar-looking spots of rocks on earth are created by microbiological activity isn't exactly persuasive evidence that this is
    what caused them on Mars.

    Perhaps they should be looking a little deeper. ;-) <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c728ven2v9eo>

    It's remarkable how little we understand about relatively inaccessible
    areas of our own planet.

    --
    Jeff

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  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Fri Jul 26 10:03:00 2024
    On 7/26/24 07:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    No, NASA hasn’t found life on Mars yet, but the latest discovery is intriguing
    "These spots are a big surprise."
    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/07/no-nasa-hasnt-found-life-on-mars-yet-but-the-latest-discovery-is-intriguing/

    PS
    Seems NASA needs more budget again....
    Every time they need more money they talk about possible traces of life.

    Yes, that has been a pattern for some time. Water on the moon
    was another similar trick.

    Jeroen Belleman

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Jeff@invalid.invalid on Sat Jul 27 05:33:35 2024
    On a sunny day (Fri, 26 Jul 2024 08:07:51 +0100) it happened Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid> wrote in <v7vi07$2nfq4$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 26/07/2024 07:29, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 26/07/2024 3:25 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    No, NASA hasn’t found life on Mars yet, but the latest discovery is intriguing
    "These spots are a big surprise."
    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/07/no-nasa-hasnt-found-life-on-mars-yet-but-the-latest-discovery-is-intriguing/

    "Now, scientists can point to rocks like Chevaya Falls and say this is
    precisely why they must be studied in ultra-capable labs back on Earth."

    Every technical puff is designed to extract money from somebody. The
    fact that similar-looking spots of rocks on earth are created by
    microbiological activity isn't exactly persuasive evidence that this is
    what caused them on Mars.

    Perhaps they should be looking a little deeper. ;-) ><https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c728ven2v9eo>

    It's remarkable how little we understand about relatively inaccessible
    areas of our own planet.

    Nice article
    OTOH we should not be too carefull..

    If it does electolysis does it also produce hydrogen?
    Or is that bound to the metal modules?
    Or bubble up the surface?
    If you were to catch both you would have nice clean fuel for cars and planes.
    ?

    This is interesting too, using alu cans and seawater to make hydrogen:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/07/240725154708.htm

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  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sat Jul 27 08:38:14 2024
    On 7/27/24 07:33, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    [...]
    This is interesting too, using alu cans and seawater to make hydrogen:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/07/240725154708.htm



    So they discovered that reactive metals in water release hydrogen.
    We knew that, didn't we? Calling it a "sustainable source of clean
    energy" is a stretch. The aluminium has to be mined and reduced
    at some point, both very energy-consuming activities. Recycling
    waste aluminium metal back into new products is much better.

    Jeroen Belleman

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jeroen@nospam.please on Sat Jul 27 11:50:46 2024
    On a sunny day (Sat, 27 Jul 2024 08:38:14 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <v824fp$397av$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 7/27/24 07:33, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    [...]
    This is interesting too, using alu cans and seawater to make hydrogen:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/07/240725154708.htm



    So they discovered that reactive metals in water release hydrogen.
    We knew that, didn't we? Calling it a "sustainable source of clean
    energy" is a stretch. The aluminium has to be mined and reduced
    at some point, both very energy-consuming activities. Recycling
    waste aluminium metal back into new products is much better.

    But melting alu takes a lot of energy...
    There likely is a place for many different processes ..

    Same for things like water desalination...
    was some stuff about a new way to do that on one of those cience sites too.
    https://pubs.aip.org/aip/apr/article-abstract/11/3/031407/3304128/3D-printing-of-bio-inspired-porous-polymeric-solar?redirectedFrom=fulltext

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  • From Bill Sloman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Jul 28 00:06:31 2024
    On 27/07/2024 9:50 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 27 Jul 2024 08:38:14 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <v824fp$397av$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 7/27/24 07:33, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    [...]
    This is interesting too, using alu cans and seawater to make hydrogen:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/07/240725154708.htm



    So they discovered that reactive metals in water release hydrogen.
    We knew that, didn't we? Calling it a "sustainable source of clean
    energy" is a stretch. The aluminium has to be mined and reduced
    at some point, both very energy-consuming activities. Recycling
    waste aluminium metal back into new products is much better.

    But melting alu takes a lot of energy...
    There likely is a place for many different processes ..

    It doesn't take as much as reducing Al2O3 to aluminium metal in the
    first case.

    You don't seem to know much about thermodynamics.
    Same for things like water desalination...

    Water desalination is a lot less energy intensive.

    was some stuff about a new way to do that on one of those cience sites too.

    There always is. It's a big market, and even quite marginal improvements
    can save quite lot of money if you are desalinating on a large scale.

    https://pubs.aip.org/aip/apr/article-abstract/11/3/031407/3304128/3D-printing-of-bio-inspired-porous-polymeric-solar?redirectedFrom=fulltext

    If they had a practical product, they wouldn't be advertising it in
    American Institute of Physics journals.

    And the promised "salt self-cleaning" properties are not likely to keep
    on working for long when the membranes are exposed to actual sea-water.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Mon Jul 29 15:22:28 2024
    On 26/07/2024 08:07, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 26/07/2024 07:29, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 26/07/2024 3:25 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    No, NASA hasn’t found life on Mars yet, but the latest discovery is
    intriguing
    "These spots are a big surprise."

    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/07/no-nasa-hasnt-found-life-on-mars-yet-but-the-latest-discovery-is-intriguing/

    "Now, scientists can point to rocks like Chevaya Falls and say this is
    precisely why they must be studied in ultra-capable labs back on Earth."

    Every technical puff is designed to extract money from somebody. The
    fact that similar-looking spots of rocks on earth are created by
    microbiological activity isn't exactly persuasive evidence that this is
    what caused them on Mars.

    Perhaps they should be looking a little deeper. ;-) <https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c728ven2v9eo>

    It's remarkable how little we understand about relatively inaccessible
    areas of our own planet.

    That is a remarkably garbled story. Whatever is making the oxygen down
    there it sure as hell isn't those nodules corroding away. It is whatever
    it is that makes the nodules form that is making oxygen down there.

    It is true that we know less about the really deep ocean trenches than
    we do about the moon...

    --
    Martin Brown

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Mon Jul 29 15:25:50 2024
    On 27/07/2024 12:50, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 27 Jul 2024 08:38:14 +0200) it happened Jeroen Belleman <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <v824fp$397av$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 7/27/24 07:33, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    [...]
    This is interesting too, using alu cans and seawater to make hydrogen:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2024/07/240725154708.htm



    So they discovered that reactive metals in water release hydrogen.
    We knew that, didn't we? Calling it a "sustainable source of clean
    energy" is a stretch. The aluminium has to be mined and reduced
    at some point, both very energy-consuming activities. Recycling
    waste aluminium metal back into new products is much better.

    But melting alu takes a lot of energy...

    It melts relatively easily. You typically put a line of soap on it to
    know when it chars that it is time to throw it into water when annealing
    it. Get it too hot and it melts.

    There likely is a place for many different processes ..

    Same for things like water desalination...
    was some stuff about a new way to do that on one of those cience sites too.
    https://pubs.aip.org/aip/apr/article-abstract/11/3/031407/3304128/3D-printing-of-bio-inspired-porous-polymeric-solar?redirectedFrom=fulltext

    Self assembling zeolite type chemistry is a much more likely solution.
    3-D printing a filter will take forever.


    --
    Martin Brown

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  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Bill Sloman on Mon Jul 29 15:39:18 2024
    On 26/07/2024 07:29, Bill Sloman wrote:
    On 26/07/2024 3:25 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    No, NASA hasn’t found life on Mars yet, but the latest discovery is
    intriguing
    "These spots are a big surprise."

    https://arstechnica.com/space/2024/07/no-nasa-hasnt-found-life-on-mars-yet-but-the-latest-discovery-is-intriguing/

    "Now, scientists can point to rocks like Chevaya Falls and say this is precisely why they must be studied in ultra-capable labs back on Earth."

    Every technical puff is designed to extract money from somebody. The
    fact that similar-looking spots of rocks on earth are created by microbiological activity isn't exactly persuasive evidence that this is
    what caused them on Mars.

    I reckon if they scrape a sample off and it pyrolyses with the same sort
    of signature of lipids and carbohydrates that you might see from a
    terrestrial lichen then it most probably *is* a lichen. Might even still
    be alive. Bringing a sample back would be the ultimate thing to do.

    OTOH plenty of diffusion limited inorganic reactions can produce very
    lifelike patterns. Perhaps the most famous being Liesgang's rings (but
    other iron / sulphide combos will do it).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liesegang_rings

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liesegang_rings_(geology)

    The fact that Mars is a red rusty planet rather than a grey one does
    tend to suggest that it got at least as far as having active
    photosynthesis at some point in the past (since it would have started
    out with a reducing atmosphere much like the Earth did). If it had
    stayed that way then iron would remain as its pale green reduced form.


    --
    Martin Brown

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