• LCD (large -- TV-ish) monitors with SOLID front surface?

    From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 7 12:43:59 2024
    I'm looking for a new monitor to back my electric whiteboard.
    I've been using a plasma monitor (40" TV) up until now as it
    has a hard front surface that can stand up to being "written on"
    (with an invisible ink marker pen).

    [Imagine your actions when writing on a "whiteboard"]

    Most LCD (TVs) seem to have a really flimsy front surface.

    I suspect the plasma's front screen is a (necessary) consequence
    of the technology. And, not essential for LCD.

    Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

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  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 7 13:41:37 2024
    On Fri, 7 Jun 2024 12:43:59 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
    wrote:

    Hi, foo,

    I'm looking for a new monitor to back my electric whiteboard.

    What's an electric whiteboard?


    I've been using a plasma monitor (40" TV) up until now as it
    has a hard front surface that can stand up to being "written on"
    (with an invisible ink marker pen).

    Invisible ink pen?


    [Imagine your actions when writing on a "whiteboard"]

    Most LCD (TVs) seem to have a really flimsy front surface.

    I suspect the plasma's front screen is a (necessary) consequence
    of the technology. And, not essential for LCD.

    Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

    My Sony OLED TV feels pretty solid. And has phenomenal color and
    contrast. But I wouldn't use it as a whiteboard.

    Interestingly, the sound comes out of the screen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Jun 12 09:22:26 2024
    On 2024-06-07, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
    I'm looking for a new monitor to back my electric whiteboard.
    I've been using a plasma monitor (40" TV) up until now as it
    has a hard front surface that can stand up to being "written on"
    (with an invisible ink marker pen).

    [Imagine your actions when writing on a "whiteboard"]

    Most LCD (TVs) seem to have a really flimsy front surface.

    I suspect the plasma's front screen is a (necessary) consequence
    of the technology. And, not essential for LCD.

    Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

    It sounds like you want to put a glass screen protector on the front
    of a regular monitor (the front of a regular LCD monitor is the plastic polariser)

    The largest glass screen protector I've seen was for a 10" tablet, but they
    may make them in larger sizes.

    --
    Jasen.
    🇺🇦 Слава Україні

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Jasen Betts on Wed Jun 12 08:13:54 2024
    On 6/12/2024 2:22 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
    Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

    It sounds like you want to put a glass screen protector on the front
    of a regular monitor (the front of a regular LCD monitor is the plastic polariser)

    That might work. Glass or Lexan. It would have to stand up to the
    (slight) abrasion of the "invisible marker pen" (Lexan seems to scratch
    even when you think you aren't using anything abrasive; glass might be problematic at that large size).

    Fastening it to the monitor would be a challenge, though.

    Plasma TVs seem to have a really robust front surface. I've seen such
    a surface on *some* LCD "monitors" (20-24 inch range) but larger TVs
    seem to not be as robust.

    The largest glass screen protector I've seen was for a 10" tablet, but they may make them in larger sizes.

    Is it like a screen protector for a *phone* -- that adheres directly to the normal screen? Or, is it mounted mechanically? (and, how "universal" would such a mount be?)

    It would also have to be much thicker than the things used on phones, especially over such a long span. E.g., I've demonstrated the durability
    of the current plasma TV by pounding on it with a *shoe* (while powered off)
    to demonstrate how hard it is to crack...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Jun 12 15:34:47 2024
    On 6/12/2024 8:13 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 6/12/2024 2:22 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
    Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

    It sounds like you want to put a glass screen protector on the front
    of a regular monitor (the front of a regular LCD monitor is the plastic
    polariser)

    That might work.  Glass or Lexan.  It would have to stand up to the (slight) abrasion of the "invisible marker pen" (Lexan seems to scratch
    even when you think you aren't using anything abrasive; glass might be problematic at that large size).

    Fastening it to the monitor would be a challenge, though.

    I tried setting a (undersized) sheet of 1/4" lexan on a monitor, here.
    It bears up to the weight (force) but makes writing a bit less natural; parallax makes the "ink's" appearance seem to be in the wrong place
    wrt the pen's tip. You'd have to stand more directly behind the pen
    (instead of to the left or right of it, based on handedness).

    Maybe I can find something thinner yet still rigid enough to avoid
    flexing over such a large distance. Perhaps tempered/safety glass?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Don Y on Fri Jun 14 03:31:17 2024
    On 2024-06-12, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
    On 6/12/2024 2:22 AM, Jasen Betts wrote:
    Are there any offerings where this might NOT be the case?

    It sounds like you want to put a glass screen protector on the front
    of a regular monitor (the front of a regular LCD monitor is the plastic
    polariser)

    That might work. Glass or Lexan. It would have to stand up to the
    (slight) abrasion of the "invisible marker pen" (Lexan seems to scratch
    even when you think you aren't using anything abrasive; glass might be problematic at that large size).

    Fastening it to the monitor would be a challenge, though.

    Plasma TVs seem to have a really robust front surface. I've seen such
    a surface on *some* LCD "monitors" (20-24 inch range) but larger TVs
    seem to not be as robust.

    The largest glass screen protector I've seen was for a 10" tablet, but they >> may make them in larger sizes.

    Is it like a screen protector for a *phone* -- that adheres directly to the normal screen? Or, is it mounted mechanically? (and, how "universal" would such a mount be?)

    it is a thin glass sheet some fraction of a millimeter thick and about as flexible as a payment card. there is a weak pressure sensitive adhesive
    on the back side. (some sort of "peel and stick")

    Similar protectors are used on mobile phones.

    It would also have to be much thicker than the things used on phones, especially over such a long span. E.g., I've demonstrated the durability
    of the current plasma TV by pounding on it with a *shoe* (while powered off) to demonstrate how hard it is to crack...

    It's supported by the ahesive and the display it's stuck to. if you
    only want to protect the display from chemicals and abrasion then thin
    will work.

    If it was stiffer than the display glass you'd need to disassemble the
    display to install the protector. (if wanting to mount it using adhesive)

    Or else live with a gap between the display and the protector (increasing parallax and potentially collecting debris)



    --
    Jasen.
    🇺🇦 Слава Україні

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Jasen Betts on Thu Jun 13 22:09:20 2024
    On 6/13/2024 8:31 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
    Plasma TVs seem to have a really robust front surface. I've seen such
    a surface on *some* LCD "monitors" (20-24 inch range) but larger TVs
    seem to not be as robust.

    It would also have to be much thicker than the things used on phones,
    especially over such a long span. E.g., I've demonstrated the durability
    of the current plasma TV by pounding on it with a *shoe* (while powered off) >> to demonstrate how hard it is to crack...

    It's supported by the ahesive and the display it's stuck to. if you
    only want to protect the display from chemicals and abrasion then thin
    will work.

    The front polarizer of a typical LCD TV ("really big monitor") tends to
    be flimsy. A thin piece of glass/lexan might work in that it could
    distribute the forces over a larger area -- providing "localized stiffness" instead of OVERALL stiffness.

    Imagine yourself writing on a whiteboard; your motions tend not to be
    delicate and deliberate but, rather, sharp and erratic. I need to protect
    the LCD display from your "abuse".

    At the same time, ensuring that the protective layer doesn't end up scratched and cloudy from repeated "markings".

    If it was stiffer than the display glass you'd need to disassemble the display to install the protector. (if wanting to mount it using adhesive)

    Or else live with a gap between the display and the protector (increasing parallax and potentially collecting debris)

    The parallax is disturbing. Your "ink" appears *in* the display but your "writing actions" occur outside the protective layer. So, if there's a schematic, program listing, photoplot, etc. being displayed on ("in")
    the display, it requires a bit more effort to make your marks where you
    want them, relative to what is already being displayed (and *updated* to include your marks).

    If you were preparing a document /with deliberation/, you could improve the accuracy of those markings -- and, edit them until they were as intended.

    But, if you are mirroring the display to other sites, then your actions
    will tend to be more hurried as you are just trying to present ideas
    quickly -- and revise them just as quickly.

    If you think of a TV weatherperson interacting with a green-screen,
    you can get a sense of how that sort of awkward interface affects
    the precision of their annotations (anything "exact" is done off-line
    where it can be revised over time; live updates tend to be really crude,
    by comparison).

    If parallax is the only option, I can use an alternate technology that eliminates it -- in favor of other shortcomings. :<

    [I *really* don't want to use another plasma TV as they throw off
    a lot of heat so you can't ALSO use them as a practical TV (which
    would eliminate the need to STORE the thing when not in use!)]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sat Jun 15 23:22:24 2024
    On 2024-06-14, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    The front polarizer of a typical LCD TV ("really big monitor") tends to
    be flimsy. A thin piece of glass/lexan might work in that it could distribute the forces over a larger area -- providing "localized stiffness" instead of OVERALL stiffness.

    Imagine yourself writing on a whiteboard; your motions tend not to be delicate and deliberate but, rather, sharp and erratic. I need to protect the LCD display from your "abuse".

    At the same time, ensuring that the protective layer doesn't end up scratched and cloudy from repeated "markings".

    If it was stiffer than the display glass you'd need to disassemble the
    display to install the protector. (if wanting to mount it using adhesive)

    Or else live with a gap between the display and the protector (increasing
    parallax and potentially collecting debris)

    The parallax is disturbing. Your "ink" appears *in* the display but your "writing actions" occur outside the protective layer. So, if there's a schematic, program listing, photoplot, etc. being displayed on ("in")
    the display, it requires a bit more effort to make your marks where you
    want them, relative to what is already being displayed (and *updated* to include your marks).

    Have you switched fron non-visible ink to virtual ink? Do you
    actually want a touch sensing screen?

    If you think of a TV weatherperson interacting with a green-screen,
    you can get a sense of how that sort of awkward interface affects
    the precision of their annotations (anything "exact" is done off-line
    where it can be revised over time; live updates tend to be really crude,
    by comparison).

    These days they use actual displays instead of chromakey. Sometimes
    even touch sensing displays; there's funny videos of the presenters
    discovering this: eg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Goz0PnhEg8

    If parallax is the only option, I can use an alternate technology that eliminates it -- in favor of other shortcomings. :<

    [I *really* don't want to use another plasma TV as they throw off
    a lot of heat so you can't ALSO use them as a practical TV (which
    would eliminate the need to STORE the thing when not in use!)]

    Not knowing your actual requirements I'm going to refrain
    from making specific suggestions.

    --
    Jasen.
    🇺🇦 Слава Україні

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Jasen Betts on Sat Jun 15 17:37:44 2024
    On 6/15/2024 4:22 PM, Jasen Betts wrote:
    On 2024-06-14, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:

    The front polarizer of a typical LCD TV ("really big monitor") tends to
    be flimsy. A thin piece of glass/lexan might work in that it could
    distribute the forces over a larger area -- providing "localized stiffness" >> instead of OVERALL stiffness.

    Imagine yourself writing on a whiteboard; your motions tend not to be
    delicate and deliberate but, rather, sharp and erratic. I need to protect >> the LCD display from your "abuse".

    At the same time, ensuring that the protective layer doesn't end up scratched
    and cloudy from repeated "markings".

    If it was stiffer than the display glass you'd need to disassemble the
    display to install the protector. (if wanting to mount it using adhesive) >>>
    Or else live with a gap between the display and the protector (increasing >>> parallax and potentially collecting debris)

    The parallax is disturbing. Your "ink" appears *in* the display but your
    "writing actions" occur outside the protective layer. So, if there's a
    schematic, program listing, photoplot, etc. being displayed on ("in")
    the display, it requires a bit more effort to make your marks where you
    want them, relative to what is already being displayed (and *updated* to
    include your marks).

    Have you switched fron non-visible ink to virtual ink? Do you
    actually want a touch sensing screen?

    The pen that you *hold* has NO ink in it (hence "invisible ink").
    I.e., I can scribble on the (current plasma) screen for hours and
    you would never know where I had scribbled.

    But, the pen *creates* "virtual ink" that appears in the video
    signal displayed on ("in") the display.

    If you start by displaying a white field, then a casual observer
    thinks he is watching a person scribbling on a real whiteboard
    (and wondering how the "market pen" keeps changing colors to suit
    the wishes of the writer).

    A *touch* screen would be nice but would complicate things in
    that getting more than one (50-90 inch diagonal) would be costly.
    My approach allows me to use a screen wherever I happen to be
    (though this has had to be plasma, to date, due to the ruggedness
    constraint)

    A sheet of glass/lexan would actually be ideal as I could arrange
    to have one of suitable size wherever I happened to be (to fit
    whatever TV was available)!

    If you think of a TV weatherperson interacting with a green-screen,
    you can get a sense of how that sort of awkward interface affects
    the precision of their annotations (anything "exact" is done off-line
    where it can be revised over time; live updates tend to be really crude,
    by comparison).

    These days they use actual displays instead of chromakey. Sometimes
    even touch sensing displays; there's funny videos of the presenters discovering this: eg. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Goz0PnhEg8

    They are still green (or blue)-screens, here (local). The presenter is
    always looking off to (e.g.) stage left to see the composite signal that
    is being broadcast (i.e., with HIM/HER *in* it) to verify that he/she is pointing and gesturing appropriately.

    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PUkZsfqPmX8>

    National broadcasters use more sophisticated displays.

    If parallax is the only option, I can use an alternate technology that
    eliminates it -- in favor of other shortcomings. :<

    [I *really* don't want to use another plasma TV as they throw off
    a lot of heat so you can't ALSO use them as a practical TV (which
    would eliminate the need to STORE the thing when not in use!)]

    Not knowing your actual requirements I'm going to refrain
    from making specific suggestions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)