• Another design

    From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 9 01:47:44 2024
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs
    fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.

    Version 4
    SHEET 1 2820 680
    WIRE 1312 -272 0 -272
    WIRE 1408 -208 288 -208
    WIRE 976 -144 160 -144
    WIRE 1088 -144 1040 -144
    WIRE -32 -48 -64 -48
    WIRE 0 -48 0 -272
    WIRE 0 -48 -32 -48
    WIRE 48 -48 0 -48
    WIRE 240 -48 48 -48
    WIRE 336 -48 240 -48
    WIRE 448 -48 336 -48
    WIRE 464 -48 448 -48
    WIRE 528 -48 464 -48
    WIRE 608 -48 528 -48
    WIRE 672 -48 608 -48
    WIRE 800 -48 768 -48
    WIRE 816 -48 800 -48
    WIRE 864 -48 816 -48
    WIRE 992 -48 944 -48
    WIRE 1024 -48 992 -48
    WIRE 1136 -48 1024 -48
    WIRE 240 -16 240 -48
    WIRE 336 -16 336 -48
    WIRE 1408 -16 1408 -208
    WIRE 1136 0 1136 -48
    WIRE -64 32 -64 -48
    WIRE 448 64 448 -48
    WIRE 464 64 464 -48
    WIRE 48 80 48 -48
    WIRE 160 80 160 -144
    WIRE 240 80 240 64
    WIRE 240 80 160 80
    WIRE 336 80 336 64
    WIRE 384 80 336 80
    WIRE 416 80 384 80
    WIRE 816 80 816 -48
    WIRE 992 80 992 -48
    WIRE 288 96 288 -208
    WIRE 336 96 336 80
    WIRE 336 96 288 96
    WIRE 656 96 480 96
    WIRE 688 96 688 0
    WIRE 688 96 656 96
    WIRE 240 112 240 80
    WIRE 384 112 240 112
    WIRE 416 112 384 112
    WIRE 528 112 528 -48
    WIRE 608 112 608 -48
    WIRE 1088 112 1088 -144
    WIRE 1136 112 1136 64
    WIRE 1136 112 1088 112
    WIRE 240 128 240 112
    WIRE 336 128 336 96
    WIRE -64 176 -64 112
    WIRE 1312 192 1312 -272
    WIRE 1136 208 1136 112
    WIRE 1200 208 1136 208
    WIRE 1280 208 1200 208
    WIRE 1392 224 1344 224
    WIRE 1408 224 1408 64
    WIRE 1408 224 1392 224
    WIRE 240 240 240 208
    WIRE 336 240 336 208
    WIRE 336 240 240 240
    WIRE 432 240 432 128
    WIRE 432 240 336 240
    WIRE 448 240 448 128
    WIRE 448 240 432 240
    WIRE 464 240 464 128
    WIRE 464 240 448 240
    WIRE 528 240 528 176
    WIRE 528 240 464 240
    WIRE 608 240 608 176
    WIRE 608 240 528 240
    WIRE 640 240 608 240
    WIRE 752 240 720 240
    WIRE 1184 240 752 240
    WIRE 1280 240 1184 240
    WIRE 1136 256 1136 208
    WIRE 752 272 752 240
    WIRE -64 368 -64 256
    WIRE 48 368 48 144
    WIRE 48 368 -64 368
    WIRE 752 368 752 336
    WIRE 752 368 48 368
    WIRE 816 368 816 144
    WIRE 816 368 752 368
    WIRE 992 368 992 144
    WIRE 992 368 816 368
    WIRE 1136 368 1136 336
    WIRE 1136 368 992 368
    WIRE 1312 368 1312 256
    WIRE 1312 368 1136 368
    WIRE -64 384 -64 368
    FLAG -64 384 0
    FLAG -32 -48 in
    FLAG 800 -48 sw
    FLAG 1024 -48 led
    FLAG 1200 208 isense
    FLAG 1184 240 iref
    FLAG 1392 224 ifb
    FLAG 384 80 cmp-
    FLAG 384 112 cmp+
    FLAG 656 96 gate
    SYMBOL Comparators\\LT1719 448 32 R0
    WINDOW 0 27 27 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -92 6 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName U1
    SYMBOL res 320 112 R0
    WINDOW 0 41 34 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 35 64 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R2
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL ind 960 -64 R90
    WINDOW 0 63 51 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 -27 53 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName L1
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=1.3 Rser=0.15 Rpar=0 Cpar=0
    SYMBOL res 1120 240 R0
    WINDOW 0 40 39 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 39 70 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R4
    SYMATTR Value 1.5
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL res 224 -32 R0
    WINDOW 0 -35 19 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -45 46 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R3
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL schottky 832 144 R180
    WINDOW 0 -45 30 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -127 -3 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D2
    SYMATTR Value MBRS130L
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL pmos 768 0 M270
    WINDOW 0 25 128 VLeft 2
    WINDOW 3 69 92 VLeft 2
    SYMATTR InstName M1
    SYMATTR Value AO6407
    SYMBOL voltage -64 160 R0
    WINDOW 0 11 100 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 38 54 Left 2
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
    WINDOW 39 -185 81 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName V3
    SYMATTR Value 12
    SYMBOL res -80 16 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R8
    SYMATTR Value 0.001
    SYMBOL zener 544 176 R180
    WINDOW 0 37 29 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 68 -5 Right 2
    SYMATTR InstName D1
    SYMATTR Value UMZ5_1N
    SYMBOL res 320 -32 R0
    WINDOW 0 40 7 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 37 33 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R1
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL res 736 224 R90
    WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R6
    SYMATTR Value 220
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL cap 592 176 M180
    WINDOW 0 39 47 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 37 16 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName C3
    SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.0337 Lser=180p
    SYMBOL polcap 976 80 R0
    WINDOW 3 24 56 Left 2
    WINDOW 0 27 9 Left 2
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR InstName C1
    SYMATTR Description Capacitor
    SYMATTR Type cap
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0
    SYMBOL res 224 112 R0
    WINDOW 0 -40 36 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -49 65 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R5
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL polcap 32 80 R0
    WINDOW 3 24 56 Left 2
    WINDOW 0 27 9 Left 2
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR InstName C2
    SYMATTR Description Capacitor
    SYMATTR Type cap
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0
    SYMBOL LED 1120 0 R0
    SYMATTR InstName D3
    SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01
    SYMBOL res 1424 80 R180
    WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R9
    SYMATTR Value 22K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL cap 976 -160 M90
    WINDOW 0 0 32 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 32 32 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName C5
    SYMATTR Value 0.01µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=16 Irms=291m Rser=0.34258 Lser=0 mfg="KEMET" pn="C0805F103K4RAC" type="X7R"
    SYMBOL OpAmps\\OP07 1312 160 R0
    SYMATTR InstName U2
    SYMBOL diode 736 272 R0
    WINDOW 0 -40 38 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -84 70 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D4
    SYMATTR Value 1N4148
    TEXT -144 432 Left 2 !.tran 0.01 startup

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to Edward Rawde on Thu May 9 23:11:03 2024
    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I don't think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    Version 4
    SHEET 1 3044 680
    WIRE 2032 -272 64 -272
    WIRE 2192 -272 2032 -272
    WIRE 2480 -272 2192 -272
    WIRE 2192 -224 2192 -272
    WIRE 2480 -224 2480 -272
    WIRE 2336 -176 2256 -176
    WIRE 2416 -176 2336 -176
    WIRE 976 -128 160 -128
    WIRE 1072 -128 1040 -128
    WIRE 2032 -128 2032 -272
    WIRE 2192 -80 2192 -128
    WIRE 2336 -80 2336 -176
    WIRE 2336 -80 2192 -80
    WIRE 2480 -64 2480 -128
    WIRE 2688 -64 2480 -64
    WIRE 16 -48 -16 -48
    WIRE 64 -48 64 -272
    WIRE 64 -48 16 -48
    WIRE 96 -48 64 -48
    WIRE 240 -48 96 -48
    WIRE 336 -48 240 -48
    WIRE 448 -48 336 -48
    WIRE 464 -48 448 -48
    WIRE 528 -48 464 -48
    WIRE 608 -48 528 -48
    WIRE 672 -48 608 -48
    WIRE 784 -48 768 -48
    WIRE 816 -48 784 -48
    WIRE 864 -48 816 -48
    WIRE 992 -48 944 -48
    WIRE 1024 -48 992 -48
    WIRE 1072 -48 1072 -128
    WIRE 1072 -48 1024 -48
    WIRE 1264 -48 1072 -48
    WIRE 1360 -48 1264 -48
    WIRE 240 -16 240 -48
    WIRE 336 -16 336 -48
    WIRE 2192 -16 2192 -80
    WIRE 2480 -16 2480 -64
    WIRE 1264 0 1264 -48
    WIRE 1360 0 1360 -48
    WIRE -16 32 -16 -48
    WIRE 2128 32 1872 32
    WIRE 2592 32 2544 32
    WIRE 448 64 448 -48
    WIRE 464 64 464 -48
    WIRE 96 80 96 -48
    WIRE 160 80 160 -128
    WIRE 240 80 240 64
    WIRE 240 80 160 80
    WIRE 336 80 336 64
    WIRE 384 80 336 80
    WIRE 416 80 384 80
    WIRE 816 80 816 -48
    WIRE 992 80 992 -48
    WIRE 336 96 336 80
    WIRE 336 96 288 96
    WIRE 656 96 480 96
    WIRE 688 96 688 0
    WIRE 688 96 656 96
    WIRE 1264 96 1264 64
    WIRE 1312 96 1264 96
    WIRE 1936 96 1312 96
    WIRE 240 112 240 80
    WIRE 384 112 240 112
    WIRE 416 112 384 112
    WIRE 528 112 528 -48
    WIRE 608 112 608 -48
    WIRE 240 128 240 112
    WIRE 336 128 336 96
    WIRE 1360 128 1360 80
    WIRE 1424 128 1360 128
    WIRE 1872 128 1872 32
    WIRE 1872 128 1424 128
    WIRE 2192 128 2192 80
    WIRE 2352 128 2192 128
    WIRE 2480 128 2480 80
    WIRE 2480 128 2352 128
    WIRE 2032 144 2032 -48
    WIRE 2128 144 2032 144
    WIRE 1360 160 1360 128
    WIRE -16 176 -16 112
    WIRE 2032 192 2032 144
    WIRE 2352 192 2352 128
    WIRE 240 240 240 208
    WIRE 336 240 336 208
    WIRE 336 240 240 240
    WIRE 384 240 336 240
    WIRE 432 240 432 128
    WIRE 432 240 384 240
    WIRE 448 240 448 128
    WIRE 448 240 432 240
    WIRE 464 240 464 128
    WIRE 464 240 448 240
    WIRE 528 240 528 176
    WIRE 528 240 464 240
    WIRE 544 240 528 240
    WIRE 608 240 608 176
    WIRE 608 240 544 240
    WIRE 1360 240 1360 224
    WIRE 1424 240 1360 240
    WIRE 1536 240 1424 240
    WIRE 1696 240 1600 240
    WIRE 1872 240 1760 240
    WIRE 2128 240 2128 144
    WIRE 2128 240 2096 240
    WIRE 2288 240 2128 240
    WIRE 544 272 544 240
    WIRE 1264 272 1264 96
    WIRE 1360 272 1360 240
    WIRE -16 368 -16 256
    WIRE 96 368 96 144
    WIRE 96 368 -16 368
    WIRE 544 368 544 352
    WIRE 544 368 96 368
    WIRE 816 368 816 144
    WIRE 816 368 544 368
    WIRE 992 368 992 144
    WIRE 992 368 816 368
    WIRE 1264 368 1264 352
    WIRE 1264 368 992 368
    WIRE 1360 368 1360 336
    WIRE 1360 368 1264 368
    WIRE 1872 368 1872 240
    WIRE 1872 368 1360 368
    WIRE 2032 368 2032 288
    WIRE 2032 368 1872 368
    WIRE 2352 368 2352 288
    WIRE 2352 368 2032 368
    WIRE -16 384 -16 368
    WIRE 1936 400 1936 96
    WIRE 2592 400 2592 32
    WIRE 2592 400 1936 400
    WIRE 288 448 288 96
    WIRE 992 448 288 448
    WIRE 1328 448 1072 448
    WIRE 2688 448 2688 -64
    WIRE 2688 448 1328 448
    FLAG -16 384 0
    FLAG 16 -48 in
    FLAG 784 -48 sw
    FLAG 1024 -48 out
    FLAG 1424 128 isense
    FLAG 1312 96 iref
    FLAG 1328 448 ifb
    FLAG 384 80 cmp-
    FLAG 384 112 cmp+
    FLAG 656 96 gate
    FLAG 384 240 cmpv-
    FLAG 1424 240 led
    SYMBOL Comparators\\LT1719 448 32 R0
    WINDOW 0 27 27 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -92 6 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName U1
    SYMBOL res 320 112 R0
    WINDOW 0 41 34 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 35 64 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R4
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL ind 960 -64 R90
    WINDOW 0 63 51 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 -27 53 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName L1
    SYMATTR Value 68µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.85 Rser=0.21 Rpar=0 Cpar=0 mfg="Sumida" pn="CDR105B-680"
    SYMBOL res 1376 -16 M0
    WINDOW 0 -37 34 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -57 63 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R8
    SYMATTR Value 0.68
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL res 224 -32 R0
    WINDOW 0 -35 19 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -49 48 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R1
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL schottky 832 144 R180
    WINDOW 0 -42 30 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -119 -3 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D2
    SYMATTR Value MBRS130L
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL pmos 768 0 M270
    WINDOW 0 10 129 VLeft 2
    WINDOW 3 -10 67 VLeft 2
    SYMATTR InstName M1
    SYMATTR Value AO6407
    SYMBOL voltage -16 160 R0
    WINDOW 0 -75 16 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -71 54 Left 2
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
    WINDOW 39 -185 81 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName V3
    SYMATTR Value 12
    SYMBOL res -32 16 R0
    WINDOW 0 -39 29 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -63 65 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R9
    SYMATTR Value 0.001
    SYMBOL zener 544 176 R180
    WINDOW 0 37 29 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 68 -5 Right 2
    SYMATTR InstName D1
    SYMATTR Value UMZ5_1N
    SYMBOL res 320 -32 R0
    WINDOW 0 40 7 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 37 33 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R3
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL res 528 368 M180
    WINDOW 0 39 76 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 38 42 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R5
    SYMATTR Value 220
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL cap 592 176 M180
    WINDOW 0 29 52 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 30 13 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName C3
    SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.0337 Lser=180p
    SYMBOL polcap 976 80 R0
    WINDOW 3 24 56 Left 2
    WINDOW 0 27 9 Left 2
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR InstName C1
    SYMATTR Description Capacitor
    SYMATTR Type cap
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0
    SYMBOL res 224 112 R0
    WINDOW 0 -40 33 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -52 57 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R2
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL polcap 80 80 R0
    WINDOW 3 -57 61 Left 2
    WINDOW 0 -39 4 Left 2
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR InstName C2
    SYMATTR Description Capacitor
    SYMATTR Type cap
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0
    SYMBOL LED 1536 256 R270
    WINDOW 0 72 32 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName LED1
    SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01
    SYMBOL res 976 432 M90
    WINDOW 0 -2 59 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 35 64 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R6
    SYMATTR Value 220K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL cap 976 -144 M90
    WINDOW 0 -3 31 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 36 35 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName C5
    SYMATTR Value 0.01µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=16 Irms=291m Rser=0.34258 Lser=0
    SYMBOL res 1248 368 M180
    WINDOW 0 -40 81 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -51 46 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R7
    SYMATTR Value 470
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL schottky 1280 0 M0
    WINDOW 0 43 24 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 40 -8 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D3
    SYMATTR Value BAT54AHY
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL FerriteBead 1360 192 R0
    SYMATTR InstName L2
    SYMATTR Value 6µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3 Rser=0.0102 Rpar=1220 Cpar=1.9p
    SYMBOL cap 1344 272 R0
    SYMATTR InstName C4
    SYMATTR Value 0.001µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=10 Irms=0 Rser=0.1909 Lser=177p mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="885012205006 WCAP-CSGP 0402" type="X7R"
    SYMBOL LED 1696 256 R270
    WINDOW 0 72 32 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName LED2
    SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01
    SYMBOL pnp 2256 -128 R180
    SYMATTR InstName Q2
    SYMATTR Value 2N3906
    SYMBOL pnp 2416 -128 M180
    SYMATTR InstName Q3
    SYMATTR Value 2N3906
    SYMBOL npn 2128 -16 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q1
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2544 -16 M0
    SYMATTR InstName Q4
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2288 192 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q5
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2096 192 M0
    SYMATTR InstName Q6
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL res 2016 -144 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R10
    SYMATTR Value 100K
    TEXT 16 392 Left 2 !.tran 0.001 startup

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to Edward Rawde on Fri May 10 17:28:48 2024
    On 10/05/2024 4:11 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs
    fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I don't think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    Version 4
    SHEET 1 3044 680
    WIRE 2032 -272 64 -272
    WIRE 2192 -272 2032 -272
    WIRE 2480 -272 2192 -272
    WIRE 2192 -224 2192 -272
    WIRE 2480 -224 2480 -272
    WIRE 2336 -176 2256 -176
    WIRE 2416 -176 2336 -176
    WIRE 976 -128 160 -128
    WIRE 1072 -128 1040 -128
    WIRE 2032 -128 2032 -272
    WIRE 2192 -80 2192 -128
    WIRE 2336 -80 2336 -176
    WIRE 2336 -80 2192 -80
    WIRE 2480 -64 2480 -128
    WIRE 2688 -64 2480 -64
    WIRE 16 -48 -16 -48
    WIRE 64 -48 64 -272
    WIRE 64 -48 16 -48
    WIRE 96 -48 64 -48
    WIRE 240 -48 96 -48
    WIRE 336 -48 240 -48
    WIRE 448 -48 336 -48
    WIRE 464 -48 448 -48
    WIRE 528 -48 464 -48
    WIRE 608 -48 528 -48
    WIRE 672 -48 608 -48
    WIRE 784 -48 768 -48
    WIRE 816 -48 784 -48
    WIRE 864 -48 816 -48
    WIRE 992 -48 944 -48
    WIRE 1024 -48 992 -48
    WIRE 1072 -48 1072 -128
    WIRE 1072 -48 1024 -48
    WIRE 1264 -48 1072 -48
    WIRE 1360 -48 1264 -48
    WIRE 240 -16 240 -48
    WIRE 336 -16 336 -48
    WIRE 2192 -16 2192 -80
    WIRE 2480 -16 2480 -64
    WIRE 1264 0 1264 -48
    WIRE 1360 0 1360 -48
    WIRE -16 32 -16 -48
    WIRE 2128 32 1872 32
    WIRE 2592 32 2544 32
    WIRE 448 64 448 -48
    WIRE 464 64 464 -48
    WIRE 96 80 96 -48
    WIRE 160 80 160 -128
    WIRE 240 80 240 64
    WIRE 240 80 160 80
    WIRE 336 80 336 64
    WIRE 384 80 336 80
    WIRE 416 80 384 80
    WIRE 816 80 816 -48
    WIRE 992 80 992 -48
    WIRE 336 96 336 80
    WIRE 336 96 288 96
    WIRE 656 96 480 96
    WIRE 688 96 688 0
    WIRE 688 96 656 96
    WIRE 1264 96 1264 64
    WIRE 1312 96 1264 96
    WIRE 1936 96 1312 96
    WIRE 240 112 240 80
    WIRE 384 112 240 112
    WIRE 416 112 384 112
    WIRE 528 112 528 -48
    WIRE 608 112 608 -48
    WIRE 240 128 240 112
    WIRE 336 128 336 96
    WIRE 1360 128 1360 80
    WIRE 1424 128 1360 128
    WIRE 1872 128 1872 32
    WIRE 1872 128 1424 128
    WIRE 2192 128 2192 80
    WIRE 2352 128 2192 128
    WIRE 2480 128 2480 80
    WIRE 2480 128 2352 128
    WIRE 2032 144 2032 -48
    WIRE 2128 144 2032 144
    WIRE 1360 160 1360 128
    WIRE -16 176 -16 112
    WIRE 2032 192 2032 144
    WIRE 2352 192 2352 128
    WIRE 240 240 240 208
    WIRE 336 240 336 208
    WIRE 336 240 240 240
    WIRE 384 240 336 240
    WIRE 432 240 432 128
    WIRE 432 240 384 240
    WIRE 448 240 448 128
    WIRE 448 240 432 240
    WIRE 464 240 464 128
    WIRE 464 240 448 240
    WIRE 528 240 528 176
    WIRE 528 240 464 240
    WIRE 544 240 528 240
    WIRE 608 240 608 176
    WIRE 608 240 544 240
    WIRE 1360 240 1360 224
    WIRE 1424 240 1360 240
    WIRE 1536 240 1424 240
    WIRE 1696 240 1600 240
    WIRE 1872 240 1760 240
    WIRE 2128 240 2128 144
    WIRE 2128 240 2096 240
    WIRE 2288 240 2128 240
    WIRE 544 272 544 240
    WIRE 1264 272 1264 96
    WIRE 1360 272 1360 240
    WIRE -16 368 -16 256
    WIRE 96 368 96 144
    WIRE 96 368 -16 368
    WIRE 544 368 544 352
    WIRE 544 368 96 368
    WIRE 816 368 816 144
    WIRE 816 368 544 368
    WIRE 992 368 992 144
    WIRE 992 368 816 368
    WIRE 1264 368 1264 352
    WIRE 1264 368 992 368
    WIRE 1360 368 1360 336
    WIRE 1360 368 1264 368
    WIRE 1872 368 1872 240
    WIRE 1872 368 1360 368
    WIRE 2032 368 2032 288
    WIRE 2032 368 1872 368
    WIRE 2352 368 2352 288
    WIRE 2352 368 2032 368
    WIRE -16 384 -16 368
    WIRE 1936 400 1936 96
    WIRE 2592 400 2592 32
    WIRE 2592 400 1936 400
    WIRE 288 448 288 96
    WIRE 992 448 288 448
    WIRE 1328 448 1072 448
    WIRE 2688 448 2688 -64
    WIRE 2688 448 1328 448
    FLAG -16 384 0
    FLAG 16 -48 in
    FLAG 784 -48 sw
    FLAG 1024 -48 out
    FLAG 1424 128 isense
    FLAG 1312 96 iref
    FLAG 1328 448 ifb
    FLAG 384 80 cmp-
    FLAG 384 112 cmp+
    FLAG 656 96 gate
    FLAG 384 240 cmpv-
    FLAG 1424 240 led
    SYMBOL Comparators\\LT1719 448 32 R0
    WINDOW 0 27 27 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -92 6 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName U1
    SYMBOL res 320 112 R0
    WINDOW 0 41 34 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 35 64 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R4
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL ind 960 -64 R90
    WINDOW 0 63 51 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 -27 53 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName L1
    SYMATTR Value 68µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.85 Rser=0.21 Rpar=0 Cpar=0 mfg="Sumida" pn="CDR105B-680"
    SYMBOL res 1376 -16 M0
    WINDOW 0 -37 34 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -57 63 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R8
    SYMATTR Value 0.68
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL res 224 -32 R0
    WINDOW 0 -35 19 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -49 48 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R1
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL schottky 832 144 R180
    WINDOW 0 -42 30 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -119 -3 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D2
    SYMATTR Value MBRS130L
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL pmos 768 0 M270
    WINDOW 0 10 129 VLeft 2
    WINDOW 3 -10 67 VLeft 2
    SYMATTR InstName M1
    SYMATTR Value AO6407
    SYMBOL voltage -16 160 R0
    WINDOW 0 -75 16 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -71 54 Left 2
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
    WINDOW 39 -185 81 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName V3
    SYMATTR Value 12
    SYMBOL res -32 16 R0
    WINDOW 0 -39 29 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -63 65 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R9
    SYMATTR Value 0.001
    SYMBOL zener 544 176 R180
    WINDOW 0 37 29 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 68 -5 Right 2
    SYMATTR InstName D1
    SYMATTR Value UMZ5_1N
    SYMBOL res 320 -32 R0
    WINDOW 0 40 7 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 37 33 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R3
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL res 528 368 M180
    WINDOW 0 39 76 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 38 42 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R5
    SYMATTR Value 220
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL cap 592 176 M180
    WINDOW 0 29 52 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 30 13 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName C3
    SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.0337 Lser=180p
    SYMBOL polcap 976 80 R0
    WINDOW 3 24 56 Left 2
    WINDOW 0 27 9 Left 2
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR InstName C1
    SYMATTR Description Capacitor
    SYMATTR Type cap
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0
    SYMBOL res 224 112 R0
    WINDOW 0 -40 33 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -52 57 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R2
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL polcap 80 80 R0
    WINDOW 3 -57 61 Left 2
    WINDOW 0 -39 4 Left 2
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR InstName C2
    SYMATTR Description Capacitor
    SYMATTR Type cap
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0
    SYMBOL LED 1536 256 R270
    WINDOW 0 72 32 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName LED1
    SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01
    SYMBOL res 976 432 M90
    WINDOW 0 -2 59 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 35 64 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R6
    SYMATTR Value 220K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL cap 976 -144 M90
    WINDOW 0 -3 31 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 36 35 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName C5
    SYMATTR Value 0.01µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=16 Irms=291m Rser=0.34258 Lser=0
    SYMBOL res 1248 368 M180
    WINDOW 0 -40 81 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -51 46 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R7
    SYMATTR Value 470
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL schottky 1280 0 M0
    WINDOW 0 43 24 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 40 -8 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D3
    SYMATTR Value BAT54AHY
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL FerriteBead 1360 192 R0
    SYMATTR InstName L2
    SYMATTR Value 6µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3 Rser=0.0102 Rpar=1220 Cpar=1.9p
    SYMBOL cap 1344 272 R0
    SYMATTR InstName C4
    SYMATTR Value 0.001µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=10 Irms=0 Rser=0.1909 Lser=177p mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="885012205006 WCAP-CSGP 0402" type="X7R"
    SYMBOL LED 1696 256 R270
    WINDOW 0 72 32 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName LED2
    SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01
    SYMBOL pnp 2256 -128 R180
    SYMATTR InstName Q2
    SYMATTR Value 2N3906
    SYMBOL pnp 2416 -128 M180
    SYMATTR InstName Q3
    SYMATTR Value 2N3906
    SYMBOL npn 2128 -16 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q1
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2544 -16 M0
    SYMATTR InstName Q4
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2288 192 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q5
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2096 192 M0
    SYMATTR InstName Q6
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL res 2016 -144 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R10
    SYMATTR Value 100K
    TEXT 16 392 Left 2 !.tran 0.001 startup




    The venerable LM311 is still a good value comparator, if you want to
    penny pinch omit the gate driver buffers and lower the pullup resistor
    but efficiency will drop a lot from 85% to ca 72%.

    Version 4
    SHEET 1 996 708
    WIRE -544 -112 -704 -112
    WIRE -48 -112 -544 -112
    WIRE 48 -112 -48 -112
    WIRE 192 -112 48 -112
    WIRE 336 -112 192 -112
    WIRE 48 -96 48 -112
    WIRE 192 -48 192 -112
    WIRE -544 -16 -544 -112
    WIRE 48 0 48 -16
    WIRE 128 0 48 0
    WIRE 336 64 336 -112
    WIRE 192 80 192 48
    WIRE 288 80 192 80
    WIRE -544 176 -544 64
    WIRE -448 176 -544 176
    WIRE -240 224 -288 224
    WIRE 336 224 336 160
    WIRE 336 224 -160 224
    WIRE -448 240 -448 176
    WIRE 336 272 336 224
    WIRE 416 272 336 272
    WIRE 592 272 496 272
    WIRE -704 320 -704 -112
    WIRE 592 320 592 272
    WIRE 592 320 416 320
    WIRE -160 336 -192 336
    WIRE -48 336 -48 -112
    WIRE -48 336 -80 336
    WIRE -544 352 -544 176
    WIRE 592 352 592 320
    WIRE 416 368 416 320
    WIRE -48 384 -48 336
    WIRE 192 384 192 80
    WIRE -448 416 -448 320
    WIRE -288 416 -288 224
    WIRE -288 416 -448 416
    WIRE -80 416 -288 416
    WIRE 48 432 48 0
    WIRE 48 432 0 432
    WIRE 128 432 48 432
    WIRE -192 448 -192 336
    WIRE -80 448 -192 448
    WIRE -448 464 -448 416
    WIRE 336 464 336 272
    WIRE 416 464 416 432
    WIRE 592 464 592 416
    WIRE 592 464 416 464
    WIRE -192 496 -192 448
    WIRE 592 496 592 464
    WIRE -704 592 -704 400
    WIRE -544 592 -544 416
    WIRE -544 592 -704 592
    WIRE -448 592 -448 544
    WIRE -448 592 -544 592
    WIRE -64 592 -64 480
    WIRE -64 592 -448 592
    WIRE -48 592 -48 480
    WIRE -48 592 -64 592
    WIRE 192 592 192 480
    WIRE 192 592 -48 592
    WIRE 336 592 336 528
    WIRE 336 592 192 592
    WIRE 592 592 592 576
    WIRE 592 592 336 592
    WIRE -704 640 -704 592
    WIRE -192 672 -192 576
    WIRE 416 672 416 464
    WIRE 416 672 -192 672
    FLAG -704 640 0
    SYMBOL schottky 352 528 R180
    WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D1
    SYMATTR Value 1N5817
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL ind 400 288 R270
    WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName L1
    SYMATTR Value 0.22m
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=50m
    SYMBOL LED 576 352 R0
    SYMATTR InstName D2
    SYMATTR Value LXK2-PW14
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL voltage -704 304 R0
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
    WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
    SYMATTR InstName V1
    SYMATTR Value 12
    SYMBOL res 576 480 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R8
    SYMATTR Value 0.15
    SYMBOL zener -528 416 R180
    WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D3
    SYMATTR Value 1N750
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL res -560 -32 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R1
    SYMATTR Value 2k
    SYMBOL res -464 448 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R3
    SYMATTR Value 100
    SYMBOL res -464 224 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R2
    SYMATTR Value 4.3k
    SYMBOL res 32 -112 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R7
    SYMATTR Value 10k
    SYMBOL cap 400 368 R0
    SYMATTR InstName C1
    SYMATTR Value 0.1m
    SYMBOL res -144 208 R90
    WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R4
    SYMATTR Value 33k
    SYMBOL res -176 592 R180
    WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R5
    SYMATTR Value 100
    SYMBOL npn 128 -48 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q1
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL pnp 128 480 M180
    SYMATTR InstName Q2
    SYMATTR Value 2N3906
    SYMBOL pmos 288 160 M180
    SYMATTR InstName M2
    SYMATTR Value AO6407
    SYMBOL res -64 320 R90
    WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R6
    SYMATTR Value 33k
    SYMBOL Comparators\\LT1011 -48 432 R0
    SYMATTR InstName U2
    TEXT -400 664 Left 2 !.tran 1m
    TEXT 496 -96 Left 2 ;EPW SED MAY 2024
    TEXT 496 -48 Left 2 ;LED BUCK USING LM311
    TEXT -152 616 Left 2 ;R6 IS OPT LINE REGULATION FEED FWD CORR
    TEXT -312 160 Left 2 ;R4 SETS HYSTERESIS
    TEXT 472 616 Left 2 ;C1 OPT EMI/RFI FILT FOR REMOTE LED
    TEXT -440 392 Left 2 ;VREF 100mV

    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to piglet on Fri May 10 17:17:23 2024
    piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 10/05/2024 4:11 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current. >>>
    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs
    fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I don't >> think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    Version 4
    (Sniiip)


    The venerable LM311 is still a good value comparator, if you want to
    penny pinch omit the gate driver buffers and lower the pullup resistor
    but efficiency will drop a lot from 85% to ca 72%.





    I’m not following through all the spicery, but fwiw:
    The positive drive of an LM311 can be improved by 100x or more, by adding a 2-cent NPN and a 2-cent diode. The NPN is an emitter follower, and the
    diode goes from base to emitter, reverse biases when the NPN is on.

    It pulls down to a diode drop above ground, but that can be a Schottky, and only has to handle the base bias, so it can be below 0.2 V, but you don’t care about 0.7 V in a gate driver anyway.

    When the 311 goes low, the diode doesn’t start conducting till the
    transistor is off, and there’s no stored charge to worry about, since the
    NPN never saturates.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri May 10 17:20:01 2024
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 10/05/2024 4:11 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current. >>>>
    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs >>>> fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    Version 4
    (Sniiip)


    The venerable LM311 is still a good value comparator, if you want to
    penny pinch omit the gate driver buffers and lower the pullup resistor
    but efficiency will drop a lot from 85% to ca 72%.





    I’m not following through all the spicery, but fwiw:
    The positive drive of an LM311 can be improved by 100x or more, by adding a 2-cent NPN and a 2-cent diode. The NPN is an emitter follower, and the
    diode goes from base to emitter, reverse biases when the NPN is on.

    It pulls down to a diode drop above ground, but that can be a Schottky, and only has to handle the base bias, so it can be below 0.2 V, but you don’t care about 0.7 V in a gate driver anyway.

    When the 311 goes low, the diode doesn’t start conducting till the transistor is off, and there’s no stored charge to worry about, since the NPN never saturates.


    Oh, and take the output from the emitter.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to invalid@invalid.invalid on Fri May 10 11:35:35 2024
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs
    fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I don't >think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and
    two NPN transistors.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to piglet on Fri May 10 14:57:03 2024
    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:v1li00$1eir3$1@dont-email.me...
    On 10/05/2024 4:11 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current. >>>
    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs
    fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I
    don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    ...


    The venerable LM311 is still a good value comparator, if you want to penny pinch omit the gate driver buffers and lower the pullup resistor but efficiency will drop a lot from 85% to ca 72%.


    Thanks, that works but I was hoping for a smaller inductor at about 1MHz and filtered LED feed referenced to ground for up to three LEDs.

    I'm probably done with my circuit unless there's a cheaper comparator which
    can do the same job or a cheaper op amp which can run on lead acid voltage.
    Or preferably up to 15V.
    Also a cheaper fet.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri May 10 20:16:56 2024
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:
    On 10/05/2024 4:11 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current. >>>>>
    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs >>>>> fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    Version 4
    (Sniiip)


    The venerable LM311 is still a good value comparator, if you want to
    penny pinch omit the gate driver buffers and lower the pullup resistor
    but efficiency will drop a lot from 85% to ca 72%.





    I’m not following through all the spicery, but fwiw:
    The positive drive of an LM311 can be improved by 100x or more, by adding a >> 2-cent NPN and a 2-cent diode. The NPN is an emitter follower, and the
    diode goes from base to emitter, reverse biases when the NPN is on.

    It pulls down to a diode drop above ground, but that can be a Schottky, and >> only has to handle the base bias, so it can be below 0.2 V, but you don’t >> care about 0.7 V in a gate driver anyway.

    When the 311 goes low, the diode doesn’t start conducting till the
    transistor is off, and there’s no stored charge to worry about, since the >> NPN never saturates.


    Oh, and take the output from the emitter.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Right , I actually did as you described in an earlier version but a PNP is practically the same cost as a diode and provides added beef.

    --
    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to Edward Rawde on Fri May 10 21:26:11 2024
    On 10/05/2024 7:57 pm, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:v1li00$1eir3$1@dont-email.me...
    On 10/05/2024 4:11 am, Edward Rawde wrote:
    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current. >>>>
    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs >>>> fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I
    don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    ...


    The venerable LM311 is still a good value comparator, if you want to penny >> pinch omit the gate driver buffers and lower the pullup resistor but
    efficiency will drop a lot from 85% to ca 72%.


    Thanks, that works but I was hoping for a smaller inductor at about 1MHz and filtered LED feed referenced to ground for up to three LEDs.

    I'm probably done with my circuit unless there's a cheaper comparator which can do the same job or a cheaper op amp which can run on lead acid voltage. Or preferably up to 15V.
    Also a cheaper fet.



    Ground referenced output is possible, rearrange the sense resistor and
    stand the reference on top of the LEDs. As in ...

    Version 4
    SHEET 1 996 708
    WIRE -544 -112 -704 -112
    WIRE -48 -112 -544 -112
    WIRE 48 -112 -48 -112
    WIRE 192 -112 48 -112
    WIRE 336 -112 192 -112
    WIRE 48 -96 48 -112
    WIRE 192 -48 192 -112
    WIRE -544 -16 -544 -112
    WIRE 48 0 48 -16
    WIRE 128 0 48 0
    WIRE 336 64 336 -112
    WIRE 192 80 192 48
    WIRE 288 80 192 80
    WIRE -544 176 -544 64
    WIRE -448 176 -544 176
    WIRE -240 224 -288 224
    WIRE 336 224 336 160
    WIRE 336 224 -160 224
    WIRE -448 240 -448 176
    WIRE 336 272 336 224
    WIRE 416 272 336 272
    WIRE 528 272 496 272
    WIRE 624 272 528 272
    WIRE -704 320 -704 -112
    WIRE 528 320 528 272
    WIRE 528 320 400 320
    WIRE 624 320 624 272
    WIRE -160 336 -192 336
    WIRE -48 336 -48 -112
    WIRE -48 336 -80 336
    WIRE -544 352 -544 176
    WIRE -48 384 -48 336
    WIRE 192 384 192 80
    WIRE -448 416 -448 320
    WIRE -288 416 -288 224
    WIRE -288 416 -448 416
    WIRE -80 416 -288 416
    WIRE 48 432 48 0
    WIRE 48 432 0 432
    WIRE 128 432 48 432
    WIRE -192 448 -192 336
    WIRE -80 448 -192 448
    WIRE 480 448 432 448
    WIRE 624 448 624 400
    WIRE 624 448 480 448
    WIRE -448 464 -448 416
    WIRE 336 464 336 272
    WIRE 624 480 624 448
    WIRE -192 496 -192 448
    WIRE 480 496 480 448
    WIRE -544 560 -544 416
    WIRE -448 560 -448 544
    WIRE -448 560 -544 560
    WIRE -704 592 -704 400
    WIRE -64 592 -64 480
    WIRE -64 592 -704 592
    WIRE -48 592 -48 480
    WIRE -48 592 -64 592
    WIRE 192 592 192 480
    WIRE 192 592 -48 592
    WIRE 336 592 336 528
    WIRE 336 592 192 592
    WIRE 480 592 480 560
    WIRE 480 592 336 592
    WIRE 624 592 624 544
    WIRE 624 592 480 592
    WIRE -704 640 -704 592
    WIRE -192 672 -192 576
    WIRE 400 672 400 320
    WIRE 400 672 -192 672
    WIRE -448 688 -448 560
    WIRE 432 688 432 448
    WIRE 432 688 -448 688
    FLAG -704 640 0
    SYMBOL schottky 352 528 R180
    WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D1
    SYMATTR Value 1N5817
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL ind 400 288 R270
    WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 5 56 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName L1
    SYMATTR Value 0.22m
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=50m
    SYMBOL LED 608 480 R0
    SYMATTR InstName D2
    SYMATTR Value LXK2-PW14
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL voltage -704 304 R0
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
    WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
    SYMATTR InstName V1
    SYMATTR Value 12
    SYMBOL res 608 304 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R8
    SYMATTR Value 0.15
    SYMBOL zener -528 416 R180
    WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D3
    SYMATTR Value 1N750
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL res -560 -32 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R1
    SYMATTR Value 2k
    SYMBOL res -464 448 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R3
    SYMATTR Value 100
    SYMBOL res -464 224 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R2
    SYMATTR Value 4.3k
    SYMBOL res 32 -112 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R7
    SYMATTR Value 10k
    SYMBOL cap 464 496 R0
    SYMATTR InstName C1
    SYMATTR Value 0.1m
    SYMBOL res -144 208 R90
    WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R4
    SYMATTR Value 33k
    SYMBOL res -176 592 R180
    WINDOW 0 36 76 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 36 40 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R5
    SYMATTR Value 100
    SYMBOL npn 128 -48 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q1
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL pnp 128 480 M180
    SYMATTR InstName Q2
    SYMATTR Value 2N3906
    SYMBOL pmos 288 160 M180
    SYMATTR InstName M2
    SYMATTR Value AO6407
    SYMBOL res -64 320 R90
    WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R6
    SYMATTR Value 33k
    SYMBOL Comparators\\LT1011 -48 432 R0
    SYMATTR InstName U2
    TEXT 664 672 Left 2 !.tran 1m
    TEXT 496 -96 Left 2 ;EPW SED MAY 2024
    TEXT 496 -48 Left 2 ;LED BUCK USING LM311
    TEXT -152 616 Left 2 ;R6 IS OPT LINE REGULATION FEED FWD CORR
    TEXT -312 160 Left 2 ;R4 SETS HYSTERESIS
    TEXT 472 616 Left 2 ;C1 OPT EMI/RFI FILT FOR REMOTE LED
    TEXT -440 392 Left 2 ;VREF 100mV

    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri May 10 17:03:23 2024
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current. >>>
    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs
    fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I >>don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and
    two NPN transistors.


    Ok here's the spec.

    Input voltage range 10.5V to 12.6 V. Preferably 10V to 15V.

    Minimum efficiency. 80%

    Inductor not bigger than 68uH 1A. Preferably smaller.

    One, two or three LEDs at 500mA +/- 50mA

    Filtered LED feed referenced to ground.

    Maximum total LED wiring length. 12 inches.

    EMC compliant in all countries.

    Cost. Minimum which will meet spec.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to piglet on Fri May 10 18:05:10 2024
    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:v1m48d$1j1bc$1@dont-email.me...
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
    news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED
    current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs >>>>> fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I >>>> don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and
    two NPN transistors.


    Ok here's the spec.

    Input voltage range 10.5V to 12.6 V. Preferably 10V to 15V.

    Minimum efficiency. 80%

    Inductor not bigger than 68uH 1A. Preferably smaller.

    One, two or three LEDs at 500mA +/- 50mA

    Filtered LED feed referenced to ground.

    Maximum total LED wiring length. 12 inches.

    EMC compliant in all countries.

    Cost. Minimum which will meet spec.




    My LM311 based idea works ok with 68uH inductors too. Efficiency is above
    80% for supply 10 to 13V and still 77% at 16V

    Haven't explored 1, 2 or 3 LED outputs.

    You didn't say if "ground" was input negative or positive but if positive ground then flip the circuit over and use a cheaper N-channel FET :)

    Ground is input negative.


    The input to a buck converter is pulsed current - you have mentioned
    output
    leads but some, possibly extensive, filtering will be needed on the input.

    Yes it crossed my mind that the input may need EMC filtering too.


    Pay me for EMC compliance :)

    As long as it doesn't go in circles with filter this, failed again, filter that, failed again, change the layout, failed again, etc


    --
    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to Edward Rawde on Fri May 10 21:40:29 2024
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current. >>>>
    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs >>>> fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I
    don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and
    two NPN transistors.


    Ok here's the spec.

    Input voltage range 10.5V to 12.6 V. Preferably 10V to 15V.

    Minimum efficiency. 80%

    Inductor not bigger than 68uH 1A. Preferably smaller.

    One, two or three LEDs at 500mA +/- 50mA

    Filtered LED feed referenced to ground.

    Maximum total LED wiring length. 12 inches.

    EMC compliant in all countries.

    Cost. Minimum which will meet spec.




    My LM311 based idea works ok with 68uH inductors too. Efficiency is above
    80% for supply 10 to 13V and still 77% at 16V

    Haven’t explored 1, 2 or 3 LED outputs.

    You didn’t say if “ground†was input negative or positive but if positive ground then flip the circuit over and use a cheaper N-channel FET :)

    The input to a buck converter is pulsed current - you have mentioned output leads but some, possibly extensive, filtering will be needed on the input.

    Pay me for EMC compliance :)

    --
    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology on Fri May 10 14:06:44 2024
    On Fri, 10 May 2024 11:35:35 -0700, John Larkin <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message >>news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current. >>>
    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs
    fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I don't >>think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and
    two NPN transistors.

    That's overkill. A pfet and one NPN might work.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri May 10 18:20:39 2024
    On 5/10/2024 5:06 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 10 May 2024 11:35:35 -0700, John Larkin <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED current. >>>>
    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs >>>> fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and
    two NPN transistors.

    That's overkill. A pfet and one NPN might work.


    Speaking of overkill, wrt our previous discussion you might be
    interested in this mixed-signal array that has 8(!) LDOs on board:

    <https://www.renesas.com/us/en/products/power-management/multi-channel-power-management-ics-pmics/slg51000-high-psrr-low-noise-multi-output-ldo-ic-advanced-camera-and-sensor-systems#overview>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to piglet on Fri May 10 18:17:47 2024
    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:v1m48d$1j1bc$1@dont-email.me...
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
    news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED
    current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs >>>>> fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced.

    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I >>>> don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds.

    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and
    two NPN transistors.


    Ok here's the spec.

    Input voltage range 10.5V to 12.6 V. Preferably 10V to 15V.

    Minimum efficiency. 80%

    Inductor not bigger than 68uH 1A. Preferably smaller.

    One, two or three LEDs at 500mA +/- 50mA

    Filtered LED feed referenced to ground.

    Maximum total LED wiring length. 12 inches.

    EMC compliant in all countries.

    Cost. Minimum which will meet spec.




    My LM311 based idea works ok with 68uH inductors too. Efficiency is above
    80% for supply 10 to 13V and still 77% at 16V

    Haven't explored 1, 2 or 3 LED outputs.

    You didn't say if "ground" was input negative or positive but if positive ground then flip the circuit over and use a cheaper N-channel FET :)

    The input to a buck converter is pulsed current - you have mentioned
    output
    leads but some, possibly extensive, filtering will be needed on the input.

    That makes me wonder whether the input could be made near enough DC by using two converters.
    One taking current when the other isn't. Perhaps two LEDs each.

    Thanks for all your input. I think I'm just about done with this unless John Larkin want to show his pfet and one npn circuit.


    Pay me for EMC compliance :)

    --
    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to Edward Rawde on Fri May 10 23:00:30 2024
    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message news:v1m6ed$28af$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:v1m48d$1j1bc$1@dont-email.me...
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >>> news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    ....

    Simulation says that these synchronize in opposite phase.
    As expected there is overlap causing input current spikes and there's
    probably no way to fix that.
    I wonder what would happen in reality.

    Version 4
    SHEET 1 3044 680
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    SYMATTR Value 0.68
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL res 224 -32 R0
    WINDOW 0 -35 19 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -49 48 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R1
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL schottky 832 144 R180
    WINDOW 0 -42 30 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -119 -3 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D2
    SYMATTR Value MBRS130L
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL pmos 768 0 M270
    WINDOW 0 10 129 VLeft 2
    WINDOW 3 -10 67 VLeft 2
    SYMATTR InstName M1
    SYMATTR Value AO6407
    SYMBOL voltage -16 160 R0
    WINDOW 0 -75 16 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -71 54 Left 2
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
    WINDOW 39 -185 81 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName V3
    SYMATTR Value 12
    SYMBOL res -32 16 R0
    WINDOW 0 -39 29 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -63 65 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R9
    SYMATTR Value 0.001
    SYMBOL zener 544 176 R180
    WINDOW 0 37 29 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 68 -5 Right 2
    SYMATTR InstName D1
    SYMATTR Value UMZ5_1N
    SYMBOL res 320 -32 R0
    WINDOW 0 40 7 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 37 33 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R3
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL res 528 368 M180
    WINDOW 0 39 76 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 38 42 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R5
    SYMATTR Value 220
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL cap 592 176 M180
    WINDOW 0 29 52 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 30 13 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName C3
    SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.0337 Lser=180p
    SYMBOL polcap 976 80 R0
    WINDOW 3 24 56 Left 2
    WINDOW 0 27 9 Left 2
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR InstName C1
    SYMATTR Description Capacitor
    SYMATTR Type cap
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0
    SYMBOL res 224 112 R0
    WINDOW 0 -40 33 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -52 57 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R2
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL polcap 80 80 R0
    WINDOW 3 -57 61 Left 2
    WINDOW 0 -39 4 Left 2
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR InstName C2
    SYMATTR Description Capacitor
    SYMATTR Type cap
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0
    SYMBOL LED 1536 256 R270
    WINDOW 0 72 32 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName LED1
    SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01
    SYMBOL res 976 432 M90
    WINDOW 0 -2 59 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 35 64 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R6
    SYMATTR Value 220K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL cap 976 -144 M90
    WINDOW 0 -3 31 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 36 35 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName C5
    SYMATTR Value 0.01µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=16 Irms=291m Rser=0.34258 Lser=0
    SYMBOL res 1248 368 M180
    WINDOW 0 -40 81 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -51 46 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R7
    SYMATTR Value 470
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL schottky 1280 0 M0
    WINDOW 0 43 24 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 40 -8 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D3
    SYMATTR Value BAT54AHY
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL FerriteBead 1360 192 R0
    SYMATTR InstName L2
    SYMATTR Value 6µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3 Rser=0.0102 Rpar=1220 Cpar=1.9p
    SYMBOL cap 1344 272 R0
    SYMATTR InstName C4
    SYMATTR Value 0.001µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=10 Irms=0 Rser=0.1909 Lser=177p mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="885012205006 WCAP-CSGP 0402" type="X7R"
    SYMBOL LED 1696 256 R270
    WINDOW 0 72 32 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName LED2
    SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01
    SYMBOL pnp 2256 -128 R180
    SYMATTR InstName Q2
    SYMATTR Value 2N3906
    SYMBOL pnp 2416 -128 M180
    SYMATTR InstName Q3
    SYMATTR Value 2N3906
    SYMBOL npn 2128 -16 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q1
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2544 -16 M0
    SYMATTR InstName Q4
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2288 192 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q5
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2096 192 M0
    SYMATTR InstName Q6
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL res 2016 -144 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R10
    SYMATTR Value 100K
    SYMBOL Comparators\\LT1719 448 -752 R0
    WINDOW 0 27 27 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -92 6 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName U2
    SYMBOL res 320 -672 R0
    WINDOW 0 41 34 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 35 64 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R11
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL ind 960 -848 R90
    WINDOW 0 63 51 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 -27 53 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName L3
    SYMATTR Value 68µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=0.85 Rser=0.21 Rpar=0 Cpar=0 mfg="Sumida" pn="CDR105B-680"
    SYMBOL res 1376 -800 M0
    WINDOW 0 -37 34 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -57 63 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R12
    SYMATTR Value 0.68
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL res 224 -816 R0
    WINDOW 0 -35 19 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -49 48 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R13
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL schottky 832 -640 R180
    WINDOW 0 -42 30 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -119 -3 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D4
    SYMATTR Value MBRS130L
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL pmos 768 -784 M270
    WINDOW 0 10 129 VLeft 2
    WINDOW 3 -10 67 VLeft 2
    SYMATTR InstName M2
    SYMATTR Value AO6407
    SYMBOL zener 544 -608 R180
    WINDOW 0 37 29 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 68 -5 Right 2
    SYMATTR InstName D5
    SYMATTR Value UMZ5_1N
    SYMBOL res 320 -816 R0
    WINDOW 0 40 7 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 37 33 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R15
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL res 528 -416 M180
    WINDOW 0 39 76 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 38 42 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R16
    SYMATTR Value 220
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL cap 592 -608 M180
    WINDOW 0 29 52 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 30 13 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName C6
    SYMATTR Value 0.1µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.0337 Lser=180p
    SYMBOL polcap 976 -704 R0
    WINDOW 3 24 56 Left 2
    WINDOW 0 27 9 Left 2
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR InstName C7
    SYMATTR Description Capacitor
    SYMATTR Type cap
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0
    SYMBOL res 224 -672 R0
    WINDOW 0 -40 33 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -52 57 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R17
    SYMATTR Value 10K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL polcap 80 -704 R0
    WINDOW 3 -57 61 Left 2
    WINDOW 0 -39 4 Left 2
    SYMATTR Value 100µ
    SYMATTR InstName C8
    SYMATTR Description Capacitor
    SYMATTR Type cap
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=6.3 Irms=0 Rser=0.9 Lser=0
    SYMBOL LED 1536 -528 R270
    WINDOW 0 72 32 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName LED3
    SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01
    SYMBOL res 976 -352 M90
    WINDOW 0 -2 59 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 35 64 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R18
    SYMATTR Value 220K
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL cap 976 -928 M90
    WINDOW 0 -3 31 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 36 35 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName C9
    SYMATTR Value 0.01µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=16 Irms=291m Rser=0.34258 Lser=0
    SYMBOL res 1248 -416 M180
    WINDOW 0 -40 81 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 -51 46 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName R19
    SYMATTR Value 470
    SYMATTR SpiceLine tol=1 pwr=0.1
    SYMBOL schottky 1280 -784 M0
    WINDOW 0 43 24 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 40 -8 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D6
    SYMATTR Value BAT54AHY
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL FerriteBead 1360 -592 R0
    SYMATTR InstName L4
    SYMATTR Value 6µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Ipk=3 Rser=0.0102 Rpar=1220 Cpar=1.9p
    SYMBOL cap 1344 -512 R0
    SYMATTR InstName C10
    SYMATTR Value 0.001µ
    SYMATTR SpiceLine V=10 Irms=0 Rser=0.1909 Lser=177p mfg="Würth Elektronik" pn="885012205006 WCAP-CSGP 0402" type="X7R"
    SYMBOL LED 1696 -528 R270
    WINDOW 0 72 32 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 0 32 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName LED4
    SYMATTR Value LXZ1-PB01
    SYMBOL pnp 2256 -912 R180
    SYMATTR InstName Q7
    SYMATTR Value 2N3906
    SYMBOL pnp 2416 -912 M180
    SYMATTR InstName Q8
    SYMATTR Value 2N3906
    SYMBOL npn 2128 -800 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q9
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2544 -800 M0
    SYMATTR InstName Q10
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2288 -592 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q11
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL npn 2096 -592 M0
    SYMATTR InstName Q12
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL res 2016 -928 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R20
    SYMATTR Value 100K
    TEXT -160 392 Left 2 !.tran 0.001 startup

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to invalid@invalid.invalid on Sat May 11 07:29:26 2024
    On Fri, 10 May 2024 18:17:47 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message >news:v1m48d$1j1bc$1@dont-email.me...
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >>> news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED
    current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs >>>>>> fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work?
    Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced. >>>>>>
    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I >>>>> don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds. >>>>
    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and
    two NPN transistors.


    Ok here's the spec.

    Input voltage range 10.5V to 12.6 V. Preferably 10V to 15V.

    Minimum efficiency. 80%

    Inductor not bigger than 68uH 1A. Preferably smaller.

    One, two or three LEDs at 500mA +/- 50mA

    Filtered LED feed referenced to ground.

    Maximum total LED wiring length. 12 inches.

    EMC compliant in all countries.

    Cost. Minimum which will meet spec.




    My LM311 based idea works ok with 68uH inductors too. Efficiency is above
    80% for supply 10 to 13V and still 77% at 16V

    Haven't explored 1, 2 or 3 LED outputs.

    You didn't say if "ground" was input negative or positive but if positive
    ground then flip the circuit over and use a cheaper N-channel FET :)

    The input to a buck converter is pulsed current - you have mentioned
    output
    leads but some, possibly extensive, filtering will be needed on the input.

    That makes me wonder whether the input could be made near enough DC by using >two converters.
    One taking current when the other isn't. Perhaps two LEDs each.

    Thanks for all your input. I think I'm just about done with this unless John >Larkin want to show his pfet and one npn circuit.


    Pay me for EMC compliance :)

    --
    piglet


    Something like this should work.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/su03d8gaxbi67zhufz3th/LED_CC_Reg_1.jpg?rlkey=oh4ib9011ee1c74ih7hk7dzcb&raw=1

    But I'd rather use a TPS562208, which would be cheaper and simpler and
    has spread-spectrum to help the EMC thing by about 20 dB.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Sat May 11 16:04:15 2024
    On 11/05/2024 3:29 pm, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 10 May 2024 18:17:47 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:v1m48d$1j1bc$1@dont-email.me...
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >>>> news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED
    current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs >>>>>>> fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work? >>>>>>> Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced. >>>>>>>
    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I >>>>>> don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds. >>>>>
    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and >>>>> two NPN transistors.


    Ok here's the spec.

    Input voltage range 10.5V to 12.6 V. Preferably 10V to 15V.

    Minimum efficiency. 80%

    Inductor not bigger than 68uH 1A. Preferably smaller.

    One, two or three LEDs at 500mA +/- 50mA

    Filtered LED feed referenced to ground.

    Maximum total LED wiring length. 12 inches.

    EMC compliant in all countries.

    Cost. Minimum which will meet spec.




    My LM311 based idea works ok with 68uH inductors too. Efficiency is above >>> 80% for supply 10 to 13V and still 77% at 16V

    Haven't explored 1, 2 or 3 LED outputs.

    You didn't say if "ground" was input negative or positive but if positive >>> ground then flip the circuit over and use a cheaper N-channel FET :)

    The input to a buck converter is pulsed current - you have mentioned
    output
    leads but some, possibly extensive, filtering will be needed on the input. >>
    That makes me wonder whether the input could be made near enough DC by using >> two converters.
    One taking current when the other isn't. Perhaps two LEDs each.

    Thanks for all your input. I think I'm just about done with this unless John >> Larkin want to show his pfet and one npn circuit.


    Pay me for EMC compliance :)

    --
    piglet


    Something like this should work.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/su03d8gaxbi67zhufz3th/LED_CC_Reg_1.jpg?rlkey=oh4ib9011ee1c74ih7hk7dzcb&raw=1

    But I'd rather use a TPS562208, which would be cheaper and simpler and
    has spread-spectrum to help the EMC thing by about 20 dB.



    Yes, my take is not too far distant but I tried to accomodate the OP's unexplained desire for ground referenced LED output.

    Version 4
    SHEET 1 1044 708
    WIRE -144 -112 -432 -112
    WIRE 64 -112 -144 -112
    WIRE 176 -112 64 -112
    WIRE -144 -96 -144 -112
    WIRE 64 -80 64 -112
    WIRE -144 16 -144 -16
    WIRE -144 16 -224 16
    WIRE 176 16 176 -112
    WIRE 64 32 64 0
    WIRE 128 32 64 32
    WIRE -144 48 -144 16
    WIRE 176 144 176 112
    WIRE 272 144 176 144
    WIRE -224 176 -224 16
    WIRE -144 176 -144 128
    WIRE -64 176 -144 176
    WIRE 176 176 176 144
    WIRE 176 176 16 176
    WIRE 176 208 176 176
    WIRE 64 224 64 32
    WIRE -144 272 -144 176
    WIRE 0 272 -144 272
    WIRE -432 320 -432 -112
    WIRE -144 320 -144 272
    WIRE 176 320 176 288
    WIRE 176 320 64 320
    WIRE 176 336 176 320
    WIRE -144 432 -144 384
    WIRE -48 432 -144 432
    WIRE 176 432 176 416
    WIRE 176 432 32 432
    WIRE 352 432 176 432
    WIRE 448 432 352 432
    WIRE 352 480 352 432
    WIRE 448 480 448 432
    WIRE 272 496 272 144
    WIRE -432 592 -432 400
    WIRE -224 592 -224 240
    WIRE -224 592 -432 592
    WIRE 272 592 272 560
    WIRE 272 592 -224 592
    WIRE 352 592 352 544
    WIRE 352 592 272 592
    WIRE 448 592 448 544
    WIRE 448 592 352 592
    WIRE -432 640 -432 592
    FLAG -432 640 0
    FLAG 448 432 OUT
    SYMBOL schottky 288 560 R180
    WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D3
    SYMATTR Value 1N5817
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL ind 160 192 R0
    SYMATTR InstName L1
    SYMATTR Value 0.068m
    SYMATTR SpiceLine Rser=50m
    SYMBOL LED 432 480 R0
    SYMATTR InstName D4
    SYMATTR Value LXK2-PW14
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    SYMBOL voltage -432 304 R0
    WINDOW 123 0 0 Left 0
    WINDOW 39 0 0 Left 0
    SYMATTR InstName V1
    SYMATTR Value 12
    SYMBOL res 160 320 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R6
    SYMATTR Value 0.15
    SYMBOL cap 336 480 R0
    SYMATTR InstName C1
    SYMATTR Value 0.1m
    SYMBOL npn 0 224 R0
    SYMATTR InstName Q1
    SYMATTR Value 2N3904
    SYMBOL res -64 448 R270
    WINDOW 0 32 56 VTop 2
    WINDOW 3 0 56 VBottom 2
    SYMATTR InstName R4
    SYMATTR Value 330
    SYMBOL res 32 160 R90
    WINDOW 0 0 56 VBottom 2
    WINDOW 3 32 56 VTop 2
    SYMATTR InstName R3
    SYMATTR Value 47k
    SYMBOL pmos 128 112 M180
    SYMATTR InstName M1
    SYMATTR Value AO6407
    SYMBOL res 48 -96 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R5
    SYMATTR Value 330
    SYMBOL res -160 32 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R2
    SYMATTR Value 3.9k
    SYMBOL diode -160 320 R0
    SYMATTR InstName D2
    SYMATTR Value 1N914
    SYMBOL res -160 -112 R0
    SYMATTR InstName R1
    SYMATTR Value 330
    SYMBOL zener -208 240 R180
    WINDOW 0 24 64 Left 2
    WINDOW 3 24 0 Left 2
    SYMATTR InstName D1
    SYMATTR Value BZX84B6V2L
    SYMATTR Description Diode
    SYMATTR Type diode
    TEXT 544 664 Left 2 !.tran 1m
    TEXT 368 -88 Left 2 ;EPW SED MAY 2024
    TEXT 368 -32 Left 2 ;LED BUCK USING 1Q 1PFET
    TEXT -312 624 Left 2 ;R1 D1 IMPROVE LINE REG
    TEXT -312 664 Left 2 ;D2 APPROX TC COMP Q1
    TEXT 368 24 Left 2 ;NON OPTIMISED BUT SHOWS IT CAN BE DONE

    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 11 09:42:48 2024
    On Sat, 11 May 2024 16:04:15 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 11/05/2024 3:29 pm, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 10 May 2024 18:17:47 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:v1m48d$1j1bc$1@dont-email.me...
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >>>>> news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED >>>>>>>> current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs >>>>>>>> fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07?

    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work? >>>>>>>> Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced. >>>>>>>>
    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I >>>>>>> don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds. >>>>>>
    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and >>>>>> two NPN transistors.


    Ok here's the spec.

    Input voltage range 10.5V to 12.6 V. Preferably 10V to 15V.

    Minimum efficiency. 80%

    Inductor not bigger than 68uH 1A. Preferably smaller.

    One, two or three LEDs at 500mA +/- 50mA

    Filtered LED feed referenced to ground.

    Maximum total LED wiring length. 12 inches.

    EMC compliant in all countries.

    Cost. Minimum which will meet spec.




    My LM311 based idea works ok with 68uH inductors too. Efficiency is above >>>> 80% for supply 10 to 13V and still 77% at 16V

    Haven't explored 1, 2 or 3 LED outputs.

    You didn't say if "ground" was input negative or positive but if positive >>>> ground then flip the circuit over and use a cheaper N-channel FET :)

    The input to a buck converter is pulsed current - you have mentioned
    output
    leads but some, possibly extensive, filtering will be needed on the input. >>>
    That makes me wonder whether the input could be made near enough DC by using
    two converters.
    One taking current when the other isn't. Perhaps two LEDs each.

    Thanks for all your input. I think I'm just about done with this unless John
    Larkin want to show his pfet and one npn circuit.


    Pay me for EMC compliance :)

    --
    piglet


    Something like this should work.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/su03d8gaxbi67zhufz3th/LED_CC_Reg_1.jpg?rlkey=oh4ib9011ee1c74ih7hk7dzcb&raw=1

    But I'd rather use a TPS562208, which would be cheaper and simpler and
    has spread-spectrum to help the EMC thing by about 20 dB.



    Yes, my take is not too far distant but I tried to accomodate the OP's >unexplained desire for ground referenced LED output.

    That's nice. It's only an LED, so it probably doesn't need +12v
    compensation.

    LEDs lose light as temperature rises, so it probably doesn't need Vbe
    temp compensation either. I'm glad that you saw the hysteresis trick,
    and that you drew a decent looking schematic with a title, date, and
    author.

    We have one project here that has had three or four project engineers
    so far, and the project folder contains 175 (yes, 175!) .asc files,
    most of which are hideous uncommented messes.

    My sim will be # 176.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i1rmnne2j2f2nhetfg1dn/P941C_May11.jpg?rlkey=9by4bmkzo6iim763468y21ko2&raw=1

    It's a dual isolated programmable DC power supply, but it has remote
    sense and a paralleling relay, which complicate life. We don't know
    what bizarre loads the user will have, or if they will connect the
    remote sense right.

    Sims run super slow and there are many cases to test, so we set up
    three monster PCs in the conference room as a simulator farm, to
    supplement the two we will use in engineers offices.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From piglet@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Sat May 11 18:27:33 2024
    On 11/05/2024 5:42 pm, John Larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 11 May 2024 16:04:15 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 11/05/2024 3:29 pm, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 10 May 2024 18:17:47 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:v1m48d$1j1bc$1@dont-email.me...
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message >>>>>> news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED >>>>>>>>> current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs
    fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07? >>>>>>>>>
    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work? >>>>>>>>> Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced. >>>>>>>>>
    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I >>>>>>>> don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds. >>>>>>>
    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and >>>>>>> two NPN transistors.


    Ok here's the spec.

    Input voltage range 10.5V to 12.6 V. Preferably 10V to 15V.

    Minimum efficiency. 80%

    Inductor not bigger than 68uH 1A. Preferably smaller.

    One, two or three LEDs at 500mA +/- 50mA

    Filtered LED feed referenced to ground.

    Maximum total LED wiring length. 12 inches.

    EMC compliant in all countries.

    Cost. Minimum which will meet spec.




    My LM311 based idea works ok with 68uH inductors too. Efficiency is above >>>>> 80% for supply 10 to 13V and still 77% at 16V

    Haven't explored 1, 2 or 3 LED outputs.

    You didn't say if "ground" was input negative or positive but if positive >>>>> ground then flip the circuit over and use a cheaper N-channel FET :) >>>>>
    The input to a buck converter is pulsed current - you have mentioned >>>>> output
    leads but some, possibly extensive, filtering will be needed on the input.

    That makes me wonder whether the input could be made near enough DC by using
    two converters.
    One taking current when the other isn't. Perhaps two LEDs each.

    Thanks for all your input. I think I'm just about done with this unless John
    Larkin want to show his pfet and one npn circuit.


    Pay me for EMC compliance :)

    --
    piglet


    Something like this should work.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/su03d8gaxbi67zhufz3th/LED_CC_Reg_1.jpg?rlkey=oh4ib9011ee1c74ih7hk7dzcb&raw=1

    But I'd rather use a TPS562208, which would be cheaper and simpler and
    has spread-spectrum to help the EMC thing by about 20 dB.



    Yes, my take is not too far distant but I tried to accomodate the OP's
    unexplained desire for ground referenced LED output.

    That's nice. It's only an LED, so it probably doesn't need +12v
    compensation.

    LEDs lose light as temperature rises, so it probably doesn't need Vbe
    temp compensation either. I'm glad that you saw the hysteresis trick,
    and that you drew a decent looking schematic with a title, date, and
    author.

    We have one project here that has had three or four project engineers
    so far, and the project folder contains 175 (yes, 175!) .asc files,
    most of which are hideous uncommented messes.

    My sim will be # 176.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i1rmnne2j2f2nhetfg1dn/P941C_May11.jpg?rlkey=9by4bmkzo6iim763468y21ko2&raw=1

    It's a dual isolated programmable DC power supply, but it has remote
    sense and a paralleling relay, which complicate life. We don't know
    what bizarre loads the user will have, or if they will connect the
    remote sense right.

    Sims run super slow and there are many cases to test, so we set up
    three monster PCs in the conference room as a simulator farm, to
    supplement the two we will use in engineers offices.



    Thanks.

    Compensating feedback systems to cope with wide ranging capacitive loads
    is awkward. I have good results with Phil Perkins stacked RC 3dB/octave
    method.

    piglet

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 11 10:51:59 2024
    On Sat, 11 May 2024 18:27:33 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 11/05/2024 5:42 pm, John Larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 11 May 2024 16:04:15 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 11/05/2024 3:29 pm, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 10 May 2024 18:17:47 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:v1m48d$1j1bc$1@dont-email.me...
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message
    news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED >>>>>>>>>> current.

    Startup behaviour is not ideal but maybe that can be fixed if it needs
    fixing.

    What's the cheapest op amp I can use for U2 instead of OP07? >>>>>>>>>>
    Is there a cheaper comparator instead of LT1719 which will work? >>>>>>>>>> Also the fet is bigger than it needs to ne.

    Is there a better device for D4? Particularly if R4 can be reduced. >>>>>>>>>>
    Will it work at all? Except in simulation.


    I think I've answered my own question for the current controller but I
    don't
    think it's feasible to attempt a discrete comparator on cost grounds. >>>>>>>>
    I think the LED constant-current switcher can be done with a pfet and >>>>>>>> two NPN transistors.


    Ok here's the spec.

    Input voltage range 10.5V to 12.6 V. Preferably 10V to 15V.

    Minimum efficiency. 80%

    Inductor not bigger than 68uH 1A. Preferably smaller.

    One, two or three LEDs at 500mA +/- 50mA

    Filtered LED feed referenced to ground.

    Maximum total LED wiring length. 12 inches.

    EMC compliant in all countries.

    Cost. Minimum which will meet spec.




    My LM311 based idea works ok with 68uH inductors too. Efficiency is above
    80% for supply 10 to 13V and still 77% at 16V

    Haven't explored 1, 2 or 3 LED outputs.

    You didn't say if "ground" was input negative or positive but if positive
    ground then flip the circuit over and use a cheaper N-channel FET :) >>>>>>
    The input to a buck converter is pulsed current - you have mentioned >>>>>> output
    leads but some, possibly extensive, filtering will be needed on the input.

    That makes me wonder whether the input could be made near enough DC by using
    two converters.
    One taking current when the other isn't. Perhaps two LEDs each.

    Thanks for all your input. I think I'm just about done with this unless John
    Larkin want to show his pfet and one npn circuit.


    Pay me for EMC compliance :)

    --
    piglet


    Something like this should work.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/su03d8gaxbi67zhufz3th/LED_CC_Reg_1.jpg?rlkey=oh4ib9011ee1c74ih7hk7dzcb&raw=1

    But I'd rather use a TPS562208, which would be cheaper and simpler and >>>> has spread-spectrum to help the EMC thing by about 20 dB.



    Yes, my take is not too far distant but I tried to accomodate the OP's
    unexplained desire for ground referenced LED output.

    That's nice. It's only an LED, so it probably doesn't need +12v
    compensation.

    LEDs lose light as temperature rises, so it probably doesn't need Vbe
    temp compensation either. I'm glad that you saw the hysteresis trick,
    and that you drew a decent looking schematic with a title, date, and
    author.

    We have one project here that has had three or four project engineers
    so far, and the project folder contains 175 (yes, 175!) .asc files,
    most of which are hideous uncommented messes.

    My sim will be # 176.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i1rmnne2j2f2nhetfg1dn/P941C_May11.jpg?rlkey=9by4bmkzo6iim763468y21ko2&raw=1

    It's a dual isolated programmable DC power supply, but it has remote
    sense and a paralleling relay, which complicate life. We don't know
    what bizarre loads the user will have, or if they will connect the
    remote sense right.

    Sims run super slow and there are many cases to test, so we set up
    three monster PCs in the conference room as a simulator farm, to
    supplement the two we will use in engineers offices.



    Thanks.

    Compensating feedback systems to cope with wide ranging capacitive loads
    is awkward. I have good results with Phil Perkins stacked RC 3dB/octave >method.

    piglet


    We have half-bridge switchers followed by multistage LC filters, and
    we take the loop-dominant AC feedback early in the filter, with slow
    DC feedback from local or remote sensed final output. If users want to
    trash their own transient response, let'em. The use loads could even
    be negative resistances.

    There are self-tuning control systems that learn the overall loop
    dynamics and optimize the loop. Or there were; maybe it was a fad. But
    that would be a gigantic amount of software to try.

    My favorite feed back loop starts at the mosfet switch node, before
    any filtering. The transfer function from PWM to switcher voltage is dimensionless +48 (ignoring the switching, of course.)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Sat May 11 18:37:21 2024
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message news:frvu3jh6lj91hpd0u5ifsl57aifkeshi7k@4ax.com...
    On Fri, 10 May 2024 18:17:47 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message >>news:v1m48d$1j1bc$1@dont-email.me...
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in
    message
    news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED
    current.

    ...

    Something like this should work.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/su03d8gaxbi67zhufz3th/LED_CC_Reg_1.jpg?rlkey=oh4ib9011ee1c74ih7hk7dzcb&raw=1

    But I'd rather use a TPS562208, which would be cheaper and simpler and
    has spread-spectrum to help the EMC thing by about 20 dB.

    Thanks for circuit and the chip reference John. That meets my cost
    requirement.
    I always felt that spread spectrum for EMC was cheating but I'm aware that there are good arguments why it is not.

    Also many thanks to piglet for taking time to post circuits.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Rawde@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Sat May 11 18:18:48 2024
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in message news:pf6v3jdf0vd7apnda5ajjp8oq1vpjjglr4@4ax.com...
    On Sat, 11 May 2024 16:04:15 +0100, piglet <erichpwagner@hotmail.com>
    wrote:

    On 11/05/2024 3:29 pm, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 10 May 2024 18:17:47 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "piglet" <erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote in message
    news:v1m48d$1j1bc$1@dont-email.me...
    Edward Rawde <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:
    "John Larkin" <jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com> wrote in
    message
    news:gnps3j99nl7t4dkdt22k7oe5tr0e6dh60i@4ax.com...
    On Thu, 9 May 2024 23:11:03 -0400, "Edward Rawde"
    <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote:

    "Edward Rawde" <invalid@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
    news:v1ho21$4ps$1@nnrp.usenet.blueworldhosting.com...
    Now with 9V to 15V input range, direct gate drive and 500mA LED >>>>>>>>> current.

    Yes, my take is not too far distant but I tried to accomodate the OP's >>unexplained desire for ground referenced LED output.

    Only one feed wire is needed in a three LED chain if grounded to metalwork. It's true that most things aren't done like that any more so I don't mind
    two wires if it can't be done any other way.
    Also two wires might radiate more than one wire, or might not depending on
    how they are filtered.


    That's nice. It's only an LED, so it probably doesn't need +12v
    compensation.

    LEDs lose light as temperature rises, so it probably doesn't need Vbe
    temp compensation either. I'm glad that you saw the hysteresis trick,
    and that you drew a decent looking schematic with a title, date, and
    author.

    I already knew that most schematics were hideous messes when I read this. https://worldradiohistory.com/UK/Wireless-World/70s/Wireless-World-1974-11.pdf Page 451 (pdf page 85)
    Perhaps I should have posted the circuit at the top of page 453 and asked
    for comments.


    We have one project here that has had three or four project engineers
    so far, and the project folder contains 175 (yes, 175!) .asc files,
    most of which are hideous uncommented messes.

    The project folder doesn't have subfolders?

    Edit, simulate, edit ,simulate... encourages that.
    Just like compile, test, compile test...
    Today's world often doesn't allow time for the final design to have its
    layout cleaned up whether it's hardware or software.
    Time is money.


    My sim will be # 176.

    https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/i1rmnne2j2f2nhetfg1dn/P941C_May11.jpg?rlkey=9by4bmkzo6iim763468y21ko2&raw=1

    It's a dual isolated programmable DC power supply, but it has remote
    sense and a paralleling relay, which complicate life. We don't know
    what bizarre loads the user will have, or if they will connect the
    remote sense right.

    I'd put that in the spec. Must cope with any kind of bizzare load and remote sense connected to AC power line.
    Ok bizzare load might need further explanation.


    Sims run super slow and there are many cases to test, so we set up
    three monster PCs in the conference room as a simulator farm, to
    supplement the two we will use in engineers offices.

    Sounds fine to me but why put them in the conference room when remote
    desktop allows access from any computer in the building (or even outside the building if you know what you're doing with a firewall). I'm currently not
    at the location of the computer which will post this.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)