AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
On 2024-05-02 07:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
You are talking of the USA?
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
work, and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.
On a sunny day (Thu, 2 May 2024 08:28:35 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <kdobgkxras.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:
On 2024-05-02 07:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
You are talking of the USA?
Yes USA
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
work, and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.
I think most if not all high power AM medium wave stations are gone now here in the Netherlands.
Lots of FM stations though.
All I hear at home on the AM medium wave band is interference from wallwarts and maybe solar panels, what not..
Electric cars would create more interference...
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
On 02/05/2024 06:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
This is one of those bonkers US lawmakers laws. I expect the geriatric >senator proposing it has a crystal set manufacturer in his state.
They will be demanding compulsory use of semaphore next.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Most in car radios are generally FM or today DAB/FM. AM never really got
on well with the spark transmitter under the bonnet of most petrol cars.
When I worked in radio astronomy all of our cars were doctored by the
local RF electronics guru to help suppress vehicle RFI on site. That had
the side effect of making AM radio much more useful.
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
More likely the antediluvian politicians wanting stone age technology.
To some extent they *DO* have a point for AM/FM analogue vs DAB digital.
A typical DAB radio in an emergency situation with no mains power will
last about 8 hours on a full set of batteries. A basic AM/FM radio will
last for about a month used 8 hours a day under those conditions.
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
listening to the radio all the time or die.
On 02/05/2024 16:18, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
listening to the radio all the time or die.
Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.
Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.
AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used >sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.
On Thu, 2 May 2024 17:03:03 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 02/05/2024 16:18, John Larkin wrote:
If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
listening to the radio all the time or die.
Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.
Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.
AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used
sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.
The alerts here are fast and brief, for traumatic events, tornadoes, kidnappings, whatever. Listening to the radio hourly won't catch them.
Phone alerts make more sense. AM radio is repulsive here, and FM is
not much better, so listening constantly for an emergency alert
doesn't make sense.
A battery powered AM radio is useful during a sustained emergency
without power, like a hurricane or earthquake, assuming that the AM
stations have power.
On 02/05/2024 18:04, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 2 May 2024 17:03:03 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 02/05/2024 16:18, John Larkin wrote:
If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
listening to the radio all the time or die.
Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.
Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.
AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used
sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.
The alerts here are fast and brief, for traumatic events, tornadoes,
kidnappings, whatever. Listening to the radio hourly won't catch them.
We don't have serious tornadoes or anything like the endemic violence of
the USA here. Most UK car radios these days have FM RDS which sees local >radio station traffic news RDS tagged automagically for updates of
crashes, traffic congestion and major incidents in the region.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System
That breaks into whatever you happen to be listening to CD, radio, USB
stick or streaming internet. A few commercial stations abuse it and
"forget" to send the end of RDS break code or have really annoying disco
beat thump thump thump sounds over their traffic news announcers voice.
Phone alerts make more sense. AM radio is repulsive here, and FM is
not much better, so listening constantly for an emergency alert
doesn't make sense.
UK also has phone alerts. They tested the system a while back. I got
mine about 40s *before* the alleged transmit time (not impressed) but my
wife with her Apple iPhone never got one at all! Probably due to the
network she was on rather than a serious attempt to cull iPhone users.
A battery powered AM radio is useful during a sustained emergency
without power, like a hurricane or earthquake, assuming that the AM
stations have power.
Analogue really has the edge when it comes to low power frugal radio >reception in adverse conditions - power consumption is miniscule.
Sustained emergency is becoming an increasing risk with tensions in the >Middle East and Putin's Russia looking at who to invade next.
You are talking of the USA?
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not work, and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.
On 2024-05-02 07:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
You are talking of the USA?
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
work, and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.
I think most if not all high power AM medium wave stations are gone nowhere in the Netherlands
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the universe.
I wonder what fraction of AM transmitter power winds up in receiver front-ends. Surely way below 1e-9. Electricity keeps getting more
expensive so operating an AM station may be bad business.
On Thu, 2 May 2024 08:28:35 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
<robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
On 2024-05-02 07:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
You are talking of the USA?
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
work, and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.
It does happen in the US, particularly in rural areas and/or
mountainous areas, because the short-wave stuff (FM band and above,
including TV bands) is line of sight, while AM follows the ground over
the mountain into the valley, and so on. This effect is quite strong,
and many rural communities in valleys paid to have a repeater atop the highest local mountain, to send the FM and TV signals down into the
valley. Which doesn't work so well from a car driving through the
mountains.
I had a friend many years ago who lived in rural Virginia, and had the
valley problem, and some makes and models of car didn't have good
enough AM radios, and/or had too much interference from the ignition
system.
On 2024-05-02 21:34, Don Y wrote:
You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability". But, you are ultimately
reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
profits, etc.
We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
most of the transmitters are located). Imagine the consequences of
an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
are located. Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.
Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
of CALLERS! The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?
The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.
AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
lots of other technology to keep it operational. And, the receivers
can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).
I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.
I saw some electronic magazine publishing one such radio made using the motor from a floppy drive (if memory serves) as generator.
On 5/1/2024 11:28 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
You are talking of the USA?
I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does
not work, and people have to use AM.
It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the
USA.
It's not just location.
There are lots of ways to deliver a message (announcement) to people wirelessly -- AM, FM, FM-HD, TV, Satellite radio, cell phone, "air raid" sirens, etc.
But, you have to think of which they are likely to be able to receive
AND which are easiest to "support".
You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability". But, you are ultimately reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
profits, etc.
We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
most of the transmitters are located). Imagine the consequences of
an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
are located. Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.
Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
of CALLERS! The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?
AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
lots of other technology to keep it operational. And, the receivers
can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).
On 5/4/2024 3:23 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-05-02 21:34, Don Y wrote:
You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability". But, you are ultimately
reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
profits, etc.
We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
most of the transmitters are located). Imagine the consequences of
an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
are located. Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.
Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
of CALLERS! The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?
The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.
Especially if the disaster is "local" to the folks you want to inform.
AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
lots of other technology to keep it operational. And, the receivers
can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).
I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.
I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds. It takes about 5 minutes
to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.
But, it is large-ish.
It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!) As the spring mechanism >will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just >tolerate the bad battery!
I saw some electronic magazine publishing one such radio made using the motor
from a floppy drive (if memory serves) as generator.
On 2024-05-03 17:43, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the
universe.
Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.
I wonder what fraction of AM transmitter power winds up in receiver
front-ends. Surely way below 1e-9. Electricity keeps getting more
expensive so operating an AM station may be bad business.
AM at MW can work without batteries, with a totally passive receiver and
high impedance headphones.
...
On 2024-05-03 17:43, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got
it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the
universe.
Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.
A lithium battery is a more sensible idea for an emergency AM radio.
People keep inventing silly micropower energy-harvesting things, when
a Tadiran battery will last your lifetime.
Or just keep a bunch of AA batteries in your fridge.
I suspect I can light an LED from local RF fields. Gotta try that some
time. Free illumination!
On 5/4/2024 3:23 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-05-02 21:34, Don Y wrote:
You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability". But, you are ultimately >>> reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
profits, etc.
We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
most of the transmitters are located). Imagine the consequences of
an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
are located. Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.
Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
of CALLERS! The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?
The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.
Especially if the disaster is "local" to the folks you want to inform.
AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
lots of other technology to keep it operational. And, the receivers
can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).
I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.
I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds. It takes about 5 minutes
to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.
But, it is large-ish.
It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!)Â As the spring mechanism
will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just tolerate the bad battery!
On 5/4/24 12:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-05-03 17:43, John Larkin wrote:[...]
On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got
it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the
universe.
Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.
I'm pretty sure that the power consumed by modern telecoms
infrastructure exceeds that of broadcast radio manyfold.
In article <cr6c3jp5f9ed2h20s30v43akt74oh27m8o@4ax.com>, >jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com says...
I suspect I can light an LED from local RF fields. Gotta try that some
time. Free illumination!
I do not know about the LEDs but the older florescence tubes would light
up if close enough to an transmitter.
I have seen plans for a simple transistor receiver that was hooked up to >another antenna that was used to power it if close enough to the local >transmitter.
AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
lots of other technology to keep it operational. And, the receivers
can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).
I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.
I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds. It takes about 5 minutes
to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.
But, it is large-ish.
It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!)Â As the spring mechanism
will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just
tolerate the bad battery!
That's a bad design, that the battery of such a thing can not be replaced "easily".
. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.
On 2024-05-04 13:43, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
On 5/4/24 12:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2024-05-03 17:43, John Larkin wrote:[...]
On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing >>>>> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent
got it via AM.
Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?
AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the
universe.
Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology,
but to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is
needed.
I'm pretty sure that the power consumed by modern telecoms
infrastructure exceeds that of broadcast radio manyfold.
An AM or LW transmitter can be a megawat.
Google:
Long Wave Radio These wavelengths travel very long distances and
generally use much higher power than medium wave, or FM and DAB. Typical power levels are 500 kilowatts, though some stations transmit with up to
2 megawatts (two million watts).
Long Wave - World of Radio
worldofradio.co.uk
https://worldofradio.co.uk › LongWave https://worldofradio.co.uk/LongWave.html
A 5ESSS exchange we were setting up took only a few KW, 2 or 5, measured
when we tested the batteries. Long distance only, just a dozen local lines.
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