• AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing

    From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 2 05:24:08 2024
    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu May 2 08:28:35 2024
    On 2024-05-02 07:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?


    You are talking of the USA?

    I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
    work, and people have to use AM.

    It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Thu May 2 08:02:20 2024
    On a sunny day (Thu, 2 May 2024 08:28:35 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <kdobgkxras.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

    On 2024-05-02 07:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?


    You are talking of the USA?

    Yes USA


    I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
    work, and people have to use AM.

    It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

    I think most if not all high power AM medium wave stations are gone now here in the Netherlands.
    Lots of FM stations though.

    All I hear at home on the AM medium wave band is interference from wallwarts and maybe solar panels, what not..
    Electric cars would create more interference...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu May 2 10:22:25 2024
    On 2024-05-02 10:02, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Thu, 2 May 2024 08:28:35 +0200) it happened "Carlos E.R." <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote in <kdobgkxras.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>:

    On 2024-05-02 07:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?


    You are talking of the USA?

    Yes USA


    I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
    work, and people have to use AM.

    It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

    I think most if not all high power AM medium wave stations are gone now here in the Netherlands.
    Lots of FM stations though.

    All I hear at home on the AM medium wave band is interference from wallwarts and maybe solar panels, what not..
    Electric cars would create more interference...

    The other day I had to tune the station I was listening to in AM instead
    of FM, because the car would not find the local station or it did not
    exist. And the area is very populated (south-east of Spain).

    Not the first time.

    Yes, I might tune it on internet instead, but it is a pain. Stations
    want you to use their own app instead of a generic one, and the generic
    often fails (probably because they change the url). I refuse to use the specific app that requires us to login, so the station can track its
    listeners by name.


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu May 2 12:20:53 2024
    On 02/05/2024 06:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    This is one of those bonkers US lawmakers laws. I expect the geriatric
    senator proposing it has a crystal set manufacturer in his state.

    They will be demanding compulsory use of semaphore next.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?

    Most in car radios are generally FM or today DAB/FM. AM never really got
    on well with the spark transmitter under the bonnet of most petrol cars.
    When I worked in radio astronomy all of our cars were doctored by the
    local RF electronics guru to help suppress vehicle RFI on site. That had
    the side effect of making AM radio much more useful.

    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    More likely the antediluvian politicians wanting stone age technology.

    To some extent they *DO* have a point for AM/FM analogue vs DAB digital.

    A typical DAB radio in an emergency situation with no mains power will
    last about 8 hours on a full set of batteries. A basic AM/FM radio will
    last for about a month used 8 hours a day under those conditions.

    --
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to '''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk on Thu May 2 12:35:31 2024
    On a sunny day (Thu, 2 May 2024 12:20:53 +0100) it happened Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <v0vsuq$3qneh$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 02/05/2024 06:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    This is one of those bonkers US lawmakers laws. I expect the geriatric >senator proposing it has a crystal set manufacturer in his state.

    They will be demanding compulsory use of semaphore next.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?

    Most in car radios are generally FM or today DAB/FM. AM never really got
    on well with the spark transmitter under the bonnet of most petrol cars.
    When I worked in radio astronomy all of our cars were doctored by the
    local RF electronics guru to help suppress vehicle RFI on site. That had
    the side effect of making AM radio much more useful.

    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    More likely the antediluvian politicians wanting stone age technology.

    To some extent they *DO* have a point for AM/FM analogue vs DAB digital.

    A typical DAB radio in an emergency situation with no mains power will
    last about 8 hours on a full set of batteries. A basic AM/FM radio will
    last for about a month used 8 hours a day under those conditions.

    I have a simple Tecsun PL360 AM FM radio,
    measure about 60 mA at 4.2V with 3 1900 mAh Eneloop batteries in series
    So 1900 / 60 makes about 31.6 hours...
    With volume low.
    My big Tecsun PL600 AM / FM / SSB shortwave / mediumwave / longwave radio runs on 4 1900 mAh Eneloop cells
    and draws about 47 mA with backlight off.
    So that makes 1900 / 47 is about 40.4 hours.
    A month is a bit longer...
    But on AM medium wave you could use a crystal radio and that would last forever...

    I have some other small rechargeable FM radios from ebay, gave one away to somebody for her kids a while back.
    Maybe those use less power, but have a lot less battery capacity, last a few hours at most on a charge.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 2 08:18:47 2024
    On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
    listening to the radio all the time or die.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Thu May 2 11:42:19 2024
    In article <v0v81o$96oj$1@solani.org>, alien@comet.invalid says...

    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?




    This is a US law in the making.
    Those electric cars generate a lot of radio interferance that can be
    mostly eliminated but it will cost the car makers money to do that.

    They remind me of a car a friend had about 50 years ago. He replaced
    the resistor wiring with regular wire. You could tell when he was about
    3 blocks away by the way the TV set was messing up. When he was about a
    block away most TV sets would be totally useless. This was back when
    most all TV sets were using outside antennas as there was not much if
    any cable around.

    I hate to think of what it would be like for my hobby of han radio if
    there were many EVs on the road. Would probalby make most frequencies
    useless.

    There is a local radio station that plays songs of the 50 to 70 era that
    I like to listen to when in the car if I am not using the recordings on
    the USB drive.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu May 2 17:03:03 2024
    On 02/05/2024 16:18, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
    listening to the radio all the time or die.

    Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
    listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
    met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.

    Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
    phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
    The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.

    AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.

    --
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to '''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk on Thu May 2 10:04:11 2024
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 17:03:03 +0100, Martin Brown
    <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

    On 02/05/2024 16:18, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
    listening to the radio all the time or die.

    Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
    listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
    met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.

    Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
    phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
    The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.

    AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used >sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.

    The alerts here are fast and brief, for traumatic events, tornadoes, kidnappings, whatever. Listening to the radio hourly won't catch them.

    Phone alerts make more sense. AM radio is repulsive here, and FM is
    not much better, so listening constantly for an emergency alert
    doesn't make sense.

    A battery powered AM radio is useful during a sustained emergency
    without power, like a hurricane or earthquake, assuming that the AM
    stations have power.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu May 2 20:11:47 2024
    On 02/05/2024 18:04, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 17:03:03 +0100, Martin Brown
    <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

    On 02/05/2024 16:18, John Larkin wrote:

    If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
    listening to the radio all the time or die.

    Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
    listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
    met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.

    Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
    phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
    The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.

    AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used
    sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.

    The alerts here are fast and brief, for traumatic events, tornadoes, kidnappings, whatever. Listening to the radio hourly won't catch them.

    We don't have serious tornadoes or anything like the endemic violence of
    the USA here. Most UK car radios these days have FM RDS which sees local
    radio station traffic news RDS tagged automagically for updates of
    crashes, traffic congestion and major incidents in the region.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System

    That breaks into whatever you happen to be listening to CD, radio, USB
    stick or streaming internet. A few commercial stations abuse it and
    "forget" to send the end of RDS break code or have really annoying disco
    beat thump thump thump sounds over their traffic news announcers voice.

    Phone alerts make more sense. AM radio is repulsive here, and FM is
    not much better, so listening constantly for an emergency alert
    doesn't make sense.

    UK also has phone alerts. They tested the system a while back. I got
    mine about 40s *before* the alleged transmit time (not impressed) but my
    wife with her Apple iPhone never got one at all! Probably due to the
    network she was on rather than a serious attempt to cull iPhone users.

    A battery powered AM radio is useful during a sustained emergency
    without power, like a hurricane or earthquake, assuming that the AM
    stations have power.

    Analogue really has the edge when it comes to low power frugal radio
    reception in adverse conditions - power consumption is miniscule.
    Sustained emergency is becoming an increasing risk with tensions in the
    Middle East and Putin's Russia looking at who to invade next.

    --
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to '''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk on Thu May 2 12:56:17 2024
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 20:11:47 +0100, Martin Brown
    <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

    On 02/05/2024 18:04, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 17:03:03 +0100, Martin Brown
    <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

    On 02/05/2024 16:18, John Larkin wrote:

    If there is a real emergency, it's crazy to require people to be
    listening to the radio all the time or die.

    Actually it isn't a bad way to update people. You would actually say
    listen in every hour, three hours or fixed time daily (much like the UK
    met office shipping forecast) if there was a truly cataclysmic event.

    Cell phone network is dead after at most 2 days without mains. Main
    phone network after about a week but VDSL and DECT go down immediately.
    The latter caught a lot of people out in Storm Arwen Nov 2021.

    AM/FM analogue radio is about the best solution and lasts well if used
    sparingly. DAB radios eat batteries *very* quickly.

    The alerts here are fast and brief, for traumatic events, tornadoes,
    kidnappings, whatever. Listening to the radio hourly won't catch them.

    We don't have serious tornadoes or anything like the endemic violence of
    the USA here. Most UK car radios these days have FM RDS which sees local >radio station traffic news RDS tagged automagically for updates of
    crashes, traffic congestion and major incidents in the region.

    I don't see any endemic violence, but then I stay out of rowdy pubs
    and bad neighborhoods at 2AM. The big crime threats around here are
    occasional double parking and Tesla charging cords on sidewalks. Not
    many people waving swords around.

    (Lots of construction is done without permits, another heinous crime,
    but we ignore that... live and let live.)

    I did experience one tornado and many hurricanes when I lived in New
    Orleans. On Mardi Gras Day, the burglarly rate went down, because all
    the criminals were in the French Quarter partying too.


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_Data_System

    That breaks into whatever you happen to be listening to CD, radio, USB
    stick or streaming internet. A few commercial stations abuse it and
    "forget" to send the end of RDS break code or have really annoying disco
    beat thump thump thump sounds over their traffic news announcers voice.

    Phone alerts make more sense. AM radio is repulsive here, and FM is
    not much better, so listening constantly for an emergency alert
    doesn't make sense.

    UK also has phone alerts. They tested the system a while back. I got
    mine about 40s *before* the alleged transmit time (not impressed) but my
    wife with her Apple iPhone never got one at all! Probably due to the
    network she was on rather than a serious attempt to cull iPhone users.

    A battery powered AM radio is useful during a sustained emergency
    without power, like a hurricane or earthquake, assuming that the AM
    stations have power.

    Analogue really has the edge when it comes to low power frugal radio >reception in adverse conditions - power consumption is miniscule.
    Sustained emergency is becoming an increasing risk with tensions in the >Middle East and Putin's Russia looking at who to invade next.

    We might get a 30-second warning of an earthquake, which won't help
    much. The real life-saver would be a warning of a tsunami, which might
    wipe out the west coasts of Oregon and Washington and Canada. Even a
    couple of minutes heads-up would let people get to higher ground.

    Firestorm-type forest fires deserve warnings too. Hazards are caused
    by people building death-trap towns in badly-managed forests.

    Life spans have more than doubled since 1900, so I shouldn't complain.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Thu May 2 12:34:21 2024
    On 5/1/2024 11:28 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    You are talking of the USA?

    I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not work, and people have to use AM.

    It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

    It's not just location.

    There are lots of ways to deliver a message (announcement) to people
    wirelessly -- AM, FM, FM-HD, TV, Satellite radio, cell phone, "air raid" sirens, etc.

    But, you have to think of which they are likely to be able to receive
    AND which are easiest to "support".

    You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
    granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
    tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability". But, you are ultimately
    reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
    profits, etc.

    We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
    most of the transmitters are located). Imagine the consequences of
    an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
    are located. Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.

    Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
    of CALLERS! The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
    to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?

    AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
    lots of other technology to keep it operational. And, the receivers
    can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
    stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Thu May 2 18:32:19 2024
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 08:28:35 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-05-02 07:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?


    You are talking of the USA?

    I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
    work, and people have to use AM.

    It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

    It does happen in the US, particularly in rural areas and/or
    mountainous areas, because the short-wave stuff (FM band and above,
    including TV bands) is line of sight, while AM follows the ground over
    the mountain into the valley, and so on. This effect is quite strong,
    and many rural communities in valleys paid to have a repeater atop the
    highest local mountain, to send the FM and TV signals down into the
    valley. Which doesn't work so well from a car driving through the
    mountains.

    I had a friend many years ago who lived in rural Virginia, and had the
    valley problem, and some makes and models of car didn't have good
    enough AM radios, and/or had too much interference from the ignition
    system.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RodionGork@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 3 06:24:39 2024
    I think most if not all high power AM medium wave stations are gone now
    here in the Netherlands

    My meek observation - even with low-quality handheld MW/LW 30-year-old receiver, when I went
    out of the house to the nearest local park at the evening (essentially
    100-200 meters from large
    and radio-noisy buildings etc) - I hear broadcasting from Hungaria (MW),
    from Poland (LW) and BBC (LW) - all of them being 1000-1500 km away.
    Quality is of no much practical interest though, but
    in Netherlands they should be heard much better and probably in daylight
    too.

    And SW bands are pretty buzzing - mostly with Chinese stations (though not
    only in Chinese language) - but as there are really many of them and they
    work within specific hours they are more difficult to identify.

    --
    to email me substitute github with gmail please

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 3 08:43:33 2024
    On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
    microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
    node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the
    universe.

    I wonder what fraction of AM transmitter power winds up in receiver
    front-ends. Surely way below 1e-9. Electricity keeps getting more
    expensive so operating an AM station may be bad business.

    What I hear is bad music, dumb politics, and very boring preaching.

    I had a friend who was a DJ in an AM station. It was a very boring,
    low pay job. He killed himself.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Sat May 4 12:29:24 2024
    On 2024-05-03 17:43, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
    microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
    node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the universe.

    Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
    to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.


    I wonder what fraction of AM transmitter power winds up in receiver front-ends. Surely way below 1e-9. Electricity keeps getting more
    expensive so operating an AM station may be bad business.

    AM at MW can work without batteries, with a totally passive receiver and
    high impedance headphones.

    ...

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sat May 4 12:26:15 2024
    On 2024-05-03 00:32, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 2 May 2024 08:28:35 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-05-02 07:24, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?


    You are talking of the USA?

    I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does not
    work, and people have to use AM.

    It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the USA.

    It does happen in the US, particularly in rural areas and/or
    mountainous areas, because the short-wave stuff (FM band and above,
    including TV bands) is line of sight, while AM follows the ground over
    the mountain into the valley, and so on. This effect is quite strong,
    and many rural communities in valleys paid to have a repeater atop the highest local mountain, to send the FM and TV signals down into the
    valley. Which doesn't work so well from a car driving through the
    mountains.

    I had a friend many years ago who lived in rural Virginia, and had the
    valley problem, and some makes and models of car didn't have good
    enough AM radios, and/or had too much interference from the ignition
    system.

    I wonder if modern ignition is better than old for this. I mean, now
    there is a coil per plug, so that the distribution works at low voltage.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Sat May 4 03:33:50 2024
    On 5/4/2024 3:23 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2024-05-02 21:34, Don Y wrote:
    You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
    granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
    tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability".  But, you are ultimately
    reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
    profits, etc.

    We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
    most of the transmitters are located).  Imagine the consequences of
    an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
    are located.  Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.

    Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
    of CALLERS!  The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
    to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?

    The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.

    Especially if the disaster is "local" to the folks you want to inform.

    AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
    lots of other technology to keep it operational.  And, the receivers
    can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
    stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).

    I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.

    I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
    it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds. It takes about 5 minutes
    to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.

    But, it is large-ish.

    It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
    but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
    result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!) As the spring mechanism will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just tolerate the bad battery!

    I saw some electronic magazine publishing one such radio made using the motor from a floppy drive (if memory serves) as generator.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sat May 4 12:23:51 2024
    On 2024-05-02 21:34, Don Y wrote:
    On 5/1/2024 11:28 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    You are talking of the USA?

    I would think that there are areas over there where FM in cars does
    not work, and people have to use AM.

    It happens in Spain, which is far smaller, so surely it happens in the
    USA.

    It's not just location.

    There are lots of ways to deliver a message (announcement) to people wirelessly -- AM, FM, FM-HD, TV, Satellite radio, cell phone, "air raid" sirens, etc.

    But, you have to think of which they are likely to be able to receive
    AND which are easiest to "support".

    You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
    granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
    tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability".  But, you are ultimately reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
    profits, etc.

    We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
    most of the transmitters are located).  Imagine the consequences of
    an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
    are located.  Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.

    Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
    of CALLERS!  The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
    to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?

    The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.


    AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
    lots of other technology to keep it operational.  And, the receivers
    can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
    stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).


    I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.

    I saw some electronic magazine publishing one such radio made using the
    motor from a floppy drive (if memory serves) as generator.

    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 4 04:40:27 2024
    On Sat, 4 May 2024 03:33:50 -0700, Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
    wrote:

    On 5/4/2024 3:23 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2024-05-02 21:34, Don Y wrote:
    You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
    granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
    tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability".  But, you are ultimately
    reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
    profits, etc.

    We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
    most of the transmitters are located).  Imagine the consequences of
    an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
    are located.  Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.

    Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
    of CALLERS!  The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
    to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?

    The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.

    Especially if the disaster is "local" to the folks you want to inform.

    AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
    lots of other technology to keep it operational.  And, the receivers
    can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
    stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).

    I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.

    I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
    it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds. It takes about 5 minutes
    to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.

    But, it is large-ish.

    It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
    but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
    result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!) As the spring mechanism >will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just >tolerate the bad battery!

    I saw some electronic magazine publishing one such radio made using the motor
    from a floppy drive (if memory serves) as generator.



    A lithium battery is a more sensible idea for an emergency AM radio.

    People keep inventing silly micropower energy-harvesting things, when
    a Tadiran battery will last your lifetime.

    Or just keep a bunch of AA batteries in your fridge.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to robin_listas@es.invalid on Sat May 4 04:27:57 2024
    On Sat, 4 May 2024 12:29:24 +0200, "Carlos E.R."
    <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    On 2024-05-03 17:43, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
    microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
    node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the
    universe.

    Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
    to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.


    I wonder what fraction of AM transmitter power winds up in receiver
    front-ends. Surely way below 1e-9. Electricity keeps getting more
    expensive so operating an AM station may be bad business.

    AM at MW can work without batteries, with a totally passive receiver and
    high impedance headphones.

    ...

    I suspect I can light an LED from local RF fields. Gotta try that some
    time. Free illumination!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Sat May 4 13:43:09 2024
    On 5/4/24 12:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2024-05-03 17:43, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got
    it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
    microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
    node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the
    universe.

    Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
    to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.

    [...]

    I'm pretty sure that the power consumed by modern telecoms
    infrastructure exceeds that of broadcast radio manyfold.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 4 14:44:55 2024
    In article <2c7c3j1ad5df4t1vb0ombaue42o5hg5b99@4ax.com>, jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com says...

    A lithium battery is a more sensible idea for an emergency AM radio.

    People keep inventing silly micropower energy-harvesting things, when
    a Tadiran battery will last your lifetime.

    Or just keep a bunch of AA batteries in your fridge.




    I like the very small ( around 750 watts ) generator that Harbor Freight
    and a few other plaves sold. I bought one on sale for under $ 100 a few
    years back. There are also propane versions. Tey run a long time on
    very little fues.


    If they did not cost so much Those solar cell recharable power stations
    are a good idea.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 4 14:39:24 2024
    In article <cr6c3jp5f9ed2h20s30v43akt74oh27m8o@4ax.com>, jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com says...

    I suspect I can light an LED from local RF fields. Gotta try that some
    time. Free illumination!






    I do not know about the LEDs but the older florescence tubes would light
    up if close enough to an transmitter.

    I have seen plans for a simple transistor receiver that was hooked up to another antenna that was used to power it if close enough to the local transmitter.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sat May 4 22:29:46 2024
    On 2024-05-04 12:33, Don Y wrote:
    On 5/4/2024 3:23 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2024-05-02 21:34, Don Y wrote:
    You can legislate requirements for broadcasters (as a condition of
    granting them use of the air waves) mandating they "conduct periodic
    tests of (an) emergency broadcast capability".  But, you are ultimately >>> reliant on them to maintain that capability, despite any pressure on
    profits, etc.

    We routinely lose TV reception due to outages on the mountain (where
    most of the transmitters are located).  Imagine the consequences of
    an earthquake or wildfire in areas where transmitters (or repeaters)
    are located.  Or, hurricane, tornado, flood, etc.

    Not everyone owns a cell phone -- or keeps it ON for the convenience
    of CALLERS!  The same can be said of all broadcast media (do I have
    to keep a radio/TV ON 24/7/365 "just in case"?

    The cell network is very vulnerable to disasters, you can not rely on it.

    Especially if the disaster is "local" to the folks you want to inform.

    Or takes out the exchange, which controls a large region. Depending on
    the population, 50 to 500 Km radius, I think.


    AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
    lots of other technology to keep it operational.  And, the receivers
    can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
    stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).

    I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.

    I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
    it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds.  It takes about 5 minutes
    to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.

    But, it is large-ish.

    It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
    but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
    result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!)  As the spring mechanism
    will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just tolerate the bad battery!

    That's a bad design, that the battery of such a thing can not be
    replaced "easily".


    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carlos E.R.@21:1/5 to Jeroen Belleman on Sat May 4 22:39:11 2024
    On 2024-05-04 13:43, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 5/4/24 12:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2024-05-03 17:43, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing
    https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent got
    it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
    microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
    node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the
    universe.

    Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology, but
    to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.

    [...]

    I'm pretty sure that the power consumed by modern telecoms
    infrastructure exceeds that of broadcast radio manyfold.


    An AM or LW transmitter can be a megawat.


    Google:

    Long Wave Radio These wavelengths travel very long distances and
    generally use much higher power than medium wave, or FM and DAB. Typical
    power levels are 500 kilowatts, though some stations transmit with up to
    2 megawatts (two million watts).

    Long Wave - World of Radio
    worldofradio.co.uk
    https://worldofradio.co.uk › LongWave https://worldofradio.co.uk/LongWave.html



    A 5ESSS exchange we were setting up took only a few KW, 2 or 5, measured
    when we tested the batteries. Long distance only, just a dozen local lines.




    --
    Cheers, Carlos.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to rmowery42@charter.net on Sat May 4 13:06:59 2024
    On Sat, 4 May 2024 14:39:24 -0400, Ralph Mowery
    <rmowery42@charter.net> wrote:

    In article <cr6c3jp5f9ed2h20s30v43akt74oh27m8o@4ax.com>, >jjSNIPlarkin@highNONOlandtechnology.com says...

    I suspect I can light an LED from local RF fields. Gotta try that some
    time. Free illumination!






    I do not know about the LEDs but the older florescence tubes would light
    up if close enough to an transmitter.

    I have seen plans for a simple transistor receiver that was hooked up to >another antenna that was used to power it if close enough to the local >transmitter.


    A crystal set can be very loud in a city, near an AM station. Must be milliwatts with a longwire antenna. Some clever circuit might harvest
    several stations.

    A good LED is visible in room light at 1 uA, just over a uW. And
    barely visible in the dark at 1 nA.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Sat May 4 14:55:46 2024
    On 5/4/2024 1:29 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    AM radio can be leveraged for wide area coverage without requiring
    lots of other technology to keep it operational.  And, the receivers
    can run for long periods of time on batteries (that are likely
    stale) or clock-spring mechanisms (emergency radios).

    I have seen radios with a hand spun dynamo.

    I have one with a clockwork mechanism -- wind up a large spring and
    it drives a small "generator" as it unwinds.  It takes about 5 minutes
    to unwind completely so it's a relatively low "winding" duty cycle.

    But, it is large-ish.

    It also has solar cells and a small, internal battery (which is toast;
    but, attempting to disassemble it to replace the battery would likely
    result in a mess of gears and torsion spring parts!)  As the spring mechanism
    will run the radio despite the bad battery, it seems a safer plan to just
    tolerate the bad battery!

    That's a bad design, that the battery of such a thing can not be replaced "easily".

    I suspect it is a rechargeable cell that the designers thought
    would "never" need to be replaced.

    The fact that it works *despite* the state of the cell suggests
    SOME forethought was put into the design. The mechanism being
    able to release enough mechanical energy to the generator over
    such a long period of time without relying on the instantaneous
    energy created by hand-cranking a generator and storing it *in*
    that cell.

    (This is how many "emergency flashlights" work -- and FAIL
    to work, over time; relying on the cell to remain functional!)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Liz Tuddenham@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Sun May 5 07:54:49 2024
    Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:

    [...]
    . The lower the frequency, the more power is needed.

    Transmitting aerials are less efficient when their length is only a
    small fraction of the wavelength, hence the need for transmitters that
    produce lots of VA (with all the losses that entails).. Receiving
    aerials are similarly affected, but nowadays, with cheaply-available
    low-noise gain, the long-wave reception limit is usually set by the
    noise floor of the location.

    --
    ~ Liz Tuddenham ~
    (Remove the ".invalid"s and add ".co.uk" to reply)
    www.poppyrecords.co.uk

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to Carlos E.R. on Sun May 5 20:51:42 2024
    On 5/4/24 22:39, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2024-05-04 13:43, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
    On 5/4/24 12:29, Carlos E.R. wrote:
    On 2024-05-03 17:43, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 02 May 2024 05:24:08 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    AM radio law opposed by tech and auto industries is close to passing >>>>> https://arstechnica.com/cars/2024/05/am-radio-is-a-lifeline-lawmakers-say-tech-and-auto-industries-disagree/
    A recent test of the emergency alert system found only 1 percent
    got it via AM.

    Strange. most is FM these days, or digital?
    Something to do with Soros buying radio stations ;-) ?

    AM radio is a century-old technology. It makes more sense to push
    microwatts of light over a fiber, or a few watts from a gen6 cell
    node, than to spray tens or hundreds of kilowatts of RF out into the
    universe.

    Heh. The power needed is not that related to being old technology,
    but to the frequency used. The lower the frequency, the more power is
    needed.

    [...]

    I'm pretty sure that the power consumed by modern telecoms
    infrastructure exceeds that of broadcast radio manyfold.


    An AM or LW transmitter can be a megawat.


    Google:

    Long Wave Radio These wavelengths travel very long distances and
    generally use much higher power than medium wave, or FM and DAB. Typical power levels are 500 kilowatts, though some stations transmit with up to
    2 megawatts (two million watts).

    Long Wave - World of Radio
    worldofradio.co.uk
    https://worldofradio.co.uk › LongWave https://worldofradio.co.uk/LongWave.html



    A 5ESSS exchange we were setting up took only a few KW, 2 or 5, measured
    when we tested the batteries. Long distance only, just a dozen local lines.


    Every cell tower consumes kilowatts and you need lots of them to
    reach the same number as a single AM MW or LW station.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)