Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systemsfamily of uP's.Any comments?
john larkin <jl@650pot.com> Wrote in message:r
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systemsfamily of uP's.Any comments?
I've only seen them on assemblies, and no certification s .
Why not an arm? Ti?
Cheers
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systems
family of uP's.
Any comments?
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systems
family of uP's.
On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 9:21:19?PM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:57:31 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid
<martin...@verison.net> wrote:
john larkin <j...@650pot.com> Wrote in message:r
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systemsfamily of uP's.Any comments?
I'm thinking about using the RP2040 in some products, and some of my
engineers suggested some alternates, including ESP32.
I like the 2040 but it has no floating point hardware and no ethernet
MAC.
Floating hardware isn't a big problem, if you want speed there's
fixed-point packages and DSP hardware for that niche...
As for Ethernet, my MacBook doesn't have it either; you
gotta get a dongle for the USB to go to Ethernet (2.5Gb available),
and the Pi pico has enough hardware to host USB from the GPIO.
john larkin <jl@650pot.com> writes:
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systems
family of uP's.
I have a friend who uses them so much he buys them in bulk, just for
personal use. One key thing to note though: there are a lot of people
making adapters for these, and not all do it correctly. The ESP32 is
the module, not the adapter! The module has an antenna on it and a lot
of the adapters place that antenna over their ground plane, rendering it >useless.
Example:
Note here that the black tab next to the shield is within the adapter's >footprint: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D5ZD528
Compare to this one where that tab, the antenna, is off the edge: >https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CDRM6BGQ
Floating hardware isn't a big problem, if you want speed there's
fixed-point packages and DSP hardware for that niche...
As for Ethernet, my MacBook doesn't have it either; you
gotta get a dongle for the USB to go to Ethernet (2.5Gb available),
and the Pi pico has enough hardware to host USB from the GPIO.
john larkin writes:
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systems
family of uP's.
I have a friend who uses them so much he buys them in bulk, just for
personal use. One key thing to note though: there are a lot of people
making adapters for these, and not all do it correctly. The ESP32 is
the module, not the adapter! The module has an antenna on it and a lot
of the adapters place that antenna over their ground plane, rendering it useless.
Example:
Note here that the black tab next to the shield is within the adapter's footprint: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B08D5ZD528
Compare to this one where that tab, the antenna, is off the edge: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0CDRM6BGQ
tirsdag den 30. januar 2024 kl. 09.44.17 UTC+1 skrev whit3rd:
On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 9:21:19?PM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:57:31 -0500 (EST), Martin RidFloating hardware isn't a big problem, if you want speed there's
<martin...@verison.net> wrote:
john larkin <j...@650pot.com> Wrote in message:rI'm thinking about using the RP2040 in some products, and some of my
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systemsfamily of uP's.Any comments?
engineers suggested some alternates, including ESP32.
I like the 2040 but it has no floating point hardware and no ethernet
MAC.
fixed-point packages and DSP hardware for that niche...
As for Ethernet, my MacBook doesn't have it either; you
gotta get a dongle for the USB to go to Ethernet (2.5Gb available),
and the Pi pico has enough hardware to host USB from the GPIO.
a USB host just to get ethernet makes little sense when you can get SPI ethernet
or MCUs with build in ethernet
a USB host just to get ethernet makes little sense when you can get SPI ethernet
or MCUs with build in ethernet
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:57:31 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
john larkin <jl@650pot.com> Wrote in message:r
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systemsfamily of uP's.Any comments?
I've only seen them on assemblies, and no certification s .
Why not an arm? Ti?
Cheers
I'm thinking about using the RP2040 in some products, and some of my engineers suggested some alternates, including ESP32.
I like the 2040 but it has no floating point hardware and no ethernet
MAC.
The ESP32 looks dicey to me, but I wondered is anyone has used it. It
seems aimed at high volume wireless applications.
tirsdag den 30. januar 2024 kl. 19.49.44 UTC+1 skrev Don Y:
On 1/30/2024 10:48 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
a USB host just to get ethernet makes little sense when you can get SPI ethernetSPI ethernet is silly. Why don't you just twiddle bits on the wire
or MCUs with build in ethernet
if you're going that route? <rolls eyes>
it is a lot less silly that implementing a USB host to get ethernet on a small MCU
On 1/30/2024 10:48 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
a USB host just to get ethernet makes little sense when you can get SPI ethernet
or MCUs with build in ethernet
SPI ethernet is silly. Why don't you just twiddle bits on the wire
if you're going that route? <rolls eyes>
The pipe to the network should (likely) be fatter than the pipe to the
rest of your I/Os.
[I made a "sugarcube" for my terminal server that puts the MCU
and PHY hardware together, connecting the rest of the I/Os to
it over SPI (USB would have been a mistake). So, if I want
a "terminal server", I glob a *cheap* MCU with SPI and UART
(in hardware or software) onto it and let the two move data
over the SPI link between them. So, the sugarcube can have
a full IP4/6 stack and not have to worry about getting
data in and out of the NIC fast enough!
The sugarcube partitioning lets me put other devices on the
far end of the SPI to suit the laundry list of requests I
had from colleagues (i.e., the network stack is where all
of the value lies)]
On 2024-01-30 06:19, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:57:31 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid
<martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
john larkin <jl@650pot.com> Wrote in message:r
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systemsfamily of uP's.Any comments?
I've only seen them on assemblies, and no certification s .
Why not an arm? Ti?
Cheers
I'm thinking about using the RP2040 in some products, and some of my
engineers suggested some alternates, including ESP32.
I like the 2040 but it has no floating point hardware and no ethernet
MAC.
The ESP32 looks dicey to me, but I wondered is anyone has used it. It
seems aimed at high volume wireless applications.
You want ethernet? I'm looking at the STM32H563ZIT6.
2MB flash, 640kB RAM (who needs more...), 250MHz 32bit ARM Cortx M33, ethernet MAC.
Lots of peripherals. I like the LQFP 144 20X20X1.4mm package.
Very extensive free tool chain. Already ordered a devkit.
https://estore.st.com/en/stm32h563zit6-cpn.html chip $10 @1pcs >https://estore.st.com/en/nucleo-h563zi-cpn.html dev kit $28
Arie
On 1/30/2024 1:44 AM, whit3rd wrote:
Floating hardware isn't a big problem, if you want speed there's
fixed-point packages and DSP hardware for that niche...
I used to eschew FP due to availability. I've since grown
to adopt that same stance after seeing how many folks
think it a panacea (and eschew error handling!). I rewrote
my speech synthesizers to use integer math (Q) and they run
slicker'n snot! As a result, I can scale the system clock
down by almost two orders of magnitude to extend battery life
(small devices use small batteries)
I provide Big Decimal Rationals for the code that users
are allowed to write figuring it's easier than explaining
rounding, cancellation, over/underflow, etc. to them.
(hard enough getting engineers to appreciate these things!)
Wanna determine the average number of atoms in the universe
per person? Knock yourself out!
As for Ethernet, my MacBook doesn't have it either; you
gotta get a dongle for the USB to go to Ethernet (2.5Gb available),
and the Pi pico has enough hardware to host USB from the GPIO.
So, now you need a USB stack AND a network stack.
And, are limited to what the dongle "understands"
behind the USB stack. Along with the limitations
of BOTH of those pipes.
E.g., no PTP, PoE, etc.
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systems
family of uP's.
We have been using the OLIMEX demo board with POE Ethernet,
Bluetooth, Wifi, microwave and dishwasher. But it lacks GPIO
pins in that formfactor.
We're building some remote displays, and a 4-channel RS-485
board using TI ISOW14x2 drivers with built-in power isolation.
The software guru grouses about the build chain...
On Monday, January 29, 2024 at 6:19:33 PM UTC-5, john larkin wrote:
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systems
family of uP's.
Any comments?
Elektor is sold on it. It's right up there with Raspberry Pi and Arduino:
https://www.elektormagazine.com/news/get-started-esp32-microcontroller
They should have some quick tutorial articles on it somewhere.
Jan might edit all their technical content...
tirsdag den 30. januar 2024 kl. 21.37.32 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:
On Tue, 30 Jan 2024 20:02:53 +0100, Arie de Muijnck
<eternal....@ademu.com> wrote:
On 2024-01-30 06:19, John Larkin wrote:We use STM32F207IGT6 in a bunch of our products and test sets, and do
On Mon, 29 Jan 2024 22:57:31 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid
<martin...@verison.net> wrote:
john larkin <j...@650pot.com> Wrote in message:r
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systemsfamily of uP's.Any comments?
I've only seen them on assemblies, and no certification s .
Why not an arm? Ti?
Cheers
I'm thinking about using the RP2040 in some products, and some of my
engineers suggested some alternates, including ESP32.
I like the 2040 but it has no floating point hardware and no ethernet
MAC.
The ESP32 looks dicey to me, but I wondered is anyone has used it. It
seems aimed at high volume wireless applications.
You want ethernet? I'm looking at the STM32H563ZIT6.
2MB flash, 640kB RAM (who needs more...), 250MHz 32bit ARM Cortx M33, ethernet MAC.
Lots of peripherals. I like the LQFP 144 20X20X1.4mm package.
Very extensive free tool chain. Already ordered a devkit.
https://estore.st.com/en/stm32h563zit6-cpn.html chip $10 @1pcs
https://estore.st.com/en/nucleo-h563zi-cpn.html dev kit $28
Arie
ethernet with just an external PHY and magnetics. But I really like
the Pi 2040 chip.
have you actually used one yet? afaict apart from the PIOs, which seems like an exercise in masochism to program,
it doesn't do anything the numerous other ARM/RISC-V chips do
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> writes:
The software guru grouses about the build chain...
As a "significant" (if not MAJOR) stakeholder, didn't he have
a say in the hardware design/processor selection?
Yes. He points out it's such a winner on the price/performance
window, it can't be ignored. Plus, the NXP boards he'd used
previously have been disappeared.
What BSD-friendly tools for the ESP32 exist?
The software guru grouses about the build chain...
As a "significant" (if not MAJOR) stakeholder, didn't he have
a say in the hardware design/processor selection?
Has anyone used any of the ESP32 parts? That's the Expressif Systems
family of uP's.
Any comments?
On 2024-01-30, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
The spi chips are mac+phy and handle entire packets and protocols.
That's a nice idea.
That probably works fine for not too-high traffic in a friendly environment. >If someone starts sending lots of packets your way, these parts will
probably drown and drop your intended traffic, too.
It depends on your use case if this is a problem or not.
cu
Michael
The spi chips are mac+phy and handle entire packets and protocols.
That's a nice idea.
On 2024-01-30, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
The spi chips are mac+phy and handle entire packets and protocols.
That's a nice idea.
That probably works fine for not too-high traffic in a friendly environment. If someone starts sending lots of packets your way, these parts will
probably drown and drop your intended traffic, too.
It depends on your use case if this is a problem or not.
On Thursday 8 February 2024 at 21:32:26 UTC, Don Y wrote:
On 2/8/2024 1:27 PM, Michael Schwingen wrote:
On 2024-01-30, john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote:Exaactly. You can't control the *other* traffic on the wire.
The spi chips are mac+phy and handle entire packets and protocols.
That's a nice idea.
That probably works fine for not too-high traffic in a friendly environment.
If someone starts sending lots of packets your way, these parts will
probably drown and drop your intended traffic, too.
So, can effectively experience a DoS even with average wire
rates well below the maximum bandwidth. (Think Slowloris
*without* even involving your stack!)
It depends on your use case if this is a problem or not.It depends on your *future* use cases, as well. It's
relatively easy for folks to fall into the trap of THINKING
it works -- in one scenario/environment -- and believing
they can move it to another with similar results.
The IPv6 stack I've put in my "network sugarcube" (originally
the basis for a one-port terminal server that now sees a dozen
or more applications -- once you have a good/robust stack, the
possibilities) exposes statistics about the "superfluous"
traffic that the device opted not to pass up to the application
layer. This allows the application to determine if it is in
a hostile environment, the probability that traffic intended
for it have been dropped or "muscled" out, failed attempts
to break IPsec, etc.
Nowadays, you don't even need to take out a soldering iron to
(attempt to) hack a device -- just throw packets at it as it
was likely designed not to consider the possibility of
hostile/malevolent traffic. Can you guarantee your customers
won't deploy your device in such an environment? Then, blame
YOU (after a lengthy analysis of THEIR environment) when
it doesn't perform as expected?
I.e., if you don't make guarantees about your functionality in
a particular environment, then you'd best be able to verify that
you aren't *in* that environment!
[How many designs will function correctly if the processor bus
was exposed to an outside agent? The network has a similar
function in newer designs]
There are a few sources of legitimate packets that can easily overwhelm a small device. They come from some ip cameras and screen sharing software which uses multicasts so every device on the network may be swamped with video.
If the network uses WiFi, then multicasts are transmitted at the speed
of the slowest device on the WiFi network. This can quickly saturate
the wireless bandwidth if there is one device with a very slow connection speed.
Most switches and WiFi access points have settings that reduce the impact
of large amounts of multicast traffic, but you can't assume they will all be appropriately set up.
On 2/8/2024 1:27 PM, Michael Schwingen wrote:
On 2024-01-30, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
The spi chips are mac+phy and handle entire packets and protocols.
That's a nice idea.
That probably works fine for not too-high traffic in a friendly environment. >> If someone starts sending lots of packets your way, these parts will
probably drown and drop your intended traffic, too.
Exaactly. You can't control the *other* traffic on the wire.
So, can effectively experience a DoS even with average wire
rates well below the maximum bandwidth. (Think Slowloris
*without* even involving your stack!)
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