https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences.
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> Wrote in message:r
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences.
Nimh are better at low temps, I wonder if the Prius has issues.
Cheers
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 15:31:29 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> Wrote in message:r
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences.
Nimh are better at low temps, I wonder if the Prius has issues.
Cheers
It has a gasoline engine!
I wonder how the battery precondition (preheat) thing works. How long
does it take? How much battery energy does it use?
It would be crazy if you have to precondition the battery before you
can charge it in super cold weather, but you don't have enough energy available to precondition (or to run the heater while you're waiting,
or to drive two blocks to the charging station.)
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 15:31:29 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid ><martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> Wrote in message:r
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences.
Nimh are better at low temps, I wonder if the Prius has issues.
Cheers
It has a gasoline engine!
I wonder how the battery precondition (preheat) thing works. How long
does it take? How much battery energy does it use?
It would be crazy if you have to precondition the battery before you
can charge it in super cold weather, but you don't have enough energy >available to precondition (or to run the heater while you're waiting,
or to drive two blocks to the charging station.)
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:44:19 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 15:31:29 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid >><martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> Wrote in message:r
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences.
Nimh are better at low temps, I wonder if the Prius has issues.
Cheers
It has a gasoline engine!
I wonder how the battery precondition (preheat) thing works. How long
does it take? How much battery energy does it use?
It would be crazy if you have to precondition the battery before you
can charge it in super cold weather, but you don't have enough energy >>available to precondition (or to run the heater while you're waiting,
or to drive two blocks to the charging station.)
Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather.
This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
prevent cranking and startup.
Battery blankets are also a real thing.
They're powered by dedicated 3pin line cords, plugged into 120vac >distribution. You'll see AC outlets in parking lots and garages,
located for that sole purpose (not fused for > 10A). The cord dangles
out of the grill, but may need an extension cord to reach an outlet.
Battery preconditioning for Tesla assumes it's at a charging station,
and so will use that power source to bring up the battery temperature
to a normal operating range.
Have to assume low temperature operation
is included in the system's state machine.
RL
On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 11:53:51?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:limits the charge current to keep the rate of temperature rise within safe limits. That's why the numbskulls, with frozen solid batteries, are backing up at the charging stations, there is in effect no fast charging taking place, greatly reducing
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook
It's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that gets
below 0F.
Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legal
consequences.
That's a bunch of nonsense encouraged by the moronic press. Those big battery banks can be permanently damaged by excess temperature change rate with time. As you can imagine, they get quite warm with fast charging. The onboard BMS detects this and
Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather.
This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
prevent cranking and startup.
Battery blankets are also a real thing.
They're powered by dedicated 3pin line cords, plugged into 120vac distribution. You'll see AC outlets in parking lots and garages,
located for that sole purpose (not fused for > 10A). The cord dangles
out of the grill, but may need an extension cord to reach an outlet.
Battery preconditioning for Tesla assumes it's at a charging station,
and so will use that power source to bring up the battery temperature
to a normal operating range. Have to assume low temperature operation
is included in the system's state machine.
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 15:31:29 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> Wrote in message:r
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences.
Nimh are better at low temps, I wonder if the Prius has issues.
Cheers
It has a gasoline engine!
I wonder how the battery precondition (preheat) thing works. How long
does it take? How much battery energy does it use?
It would be crazy if you have to precondition the battery before you
can charge it in super cold weather, but you don't have enough energy available to precondition (or to run the heater while you're waiting,
or to drive two blocks to the charging station.)
On Wednesday, January 17, 2024 at 9:36:14 AM UTC-5, legg wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:44:19 -0800, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com>
wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 15:31:29 -0500 (EST), Martin RidMost North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
<martin...@verison.net> wrote:
John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> Wrote in message:r
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences.
Nimh are better at low temps, I wonder if the Prius has issues.
Cheers
It has a gasoline engine!
I wonder how the battery precondition (preheat) thing works. How long
does it take? How much battery energy does it use?
It would be crazy if you have to precondition the battery before you
can charge it in super cold weather, but you don't have enough energy
available to precondition (or to run the heater while you're waiting,
or to drive two blocks to the charging station.)
plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather.
This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
prevent cranking and startup.
Battery blankets are also a real thing.
They're powered by dedicated 3pin line cords, plugged into 120vac
distribution. You'll see AC outlets in parking lots and garages,
located for that sole purpose (not fused for > 10A). The cord dangles
out of the grill, but may need an extension cord to reach an outlet.
Battery preconditioning for Tesla assumes it's at a charging station,
and so will use that power source to bring up the battery temperature
to a normal operating range. Have to assume low temperature operation
is included in the system's state machine.
It can precondition with the stored battery energy, doesn't need to be at the charging station. The fools are not supposed to drain the batteries below 20% C, or something, anyway, just something else for the airheads to ignore.
Those cold weather ICE heaters are for the crankcase oil, they're just dumb engine block heaters. The batteries will just have to tough it out on their own.
Speaking of which, a recent study has determined that excessive temperature in heated car seats, which some people prefer apparently, causes a decline in male fertility.
On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 09:36:51 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:>On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 16:44:19 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>>wrote:>>>On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 15:31:29 -0500 (EST), Martin Rid>><martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:>>>>>John Larkin<jl@997PotHill.com> Wrote in message:r>>>> https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brookIt's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that getsbelow 0F.Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legalconsequences.>>>>>>
On 1/17/2024 7:36 AM, legg wrote:
Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather.
This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
prevent cranking and startup.
Block heaters are inexpensive (to purchase) and simple to
install -- knock out a freeze plug and replace with heater.
I've always had them in some of the larger V8s that I've
driven when living "north" (e.g., Chicago).
A friend doing a stint in North Dakota claimed that you
always fed the parking meter -- because the SWITCHED outlet
made available to the parked car would turn off when the
meter expired.
[Larger commercial vehicles, I'm told, were run continuously
in the colder months -- fuel being cheaper than trying to start
overly thickened oil]
Battery blankets are also a real thing.
They're powered by dedicated 3pin line cords, plugged into 120vac
distribution. You'll see AC outlets in parking lots and garages,
located for that sole purpose (not fused for > 10A). The cord dangles
out of the grill, but may need an extension cord to reach an outlet.
Parking meters for folks who have to park at the curb.
I would keep mine plugged in even when garaged!
(cold weather makes the engine load appear larger
and the battery capacity smaller... why not give the
car a break?)
Battery preconditioning for Tesla assumes it's at a charging station,
and so will use that power source to bring up the battery temperature
to a normal operating range. Have to assume low temperature operation
is included in the system's state machine.
Not unlike keeping your (starting) battery in the house...
I'll be curious to see how the heat affects battery life.
Here, starting batteries are rarely good for more than 3 years
(if you are wise, you replace yours *at* three years before
you find yourself stranded!)
None of the BEV owners I've known have kept their vehicles for more
than 2 years so no real data points to consult.
On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 10:55:02 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 1/17/2024 7:36 AM, legg wrote:
Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather.
This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
prevent cranking and startup.
Block heaters are inexpensive (to purchase) and simple to
install -- knock out a freeze plug and replace with heater.
I've always had them in some of the larger V8s that I've
driven when living "north" (e.g., Chicago).
A friend doing a stint in North Dakota claimed that you
always fed the parking meter -- because the SWITCHED outlet
made available to the parked car would turn off when the
meter expired.
Metered parking is too short-term, but outdoor day lots will
provide sockets or lose clients.
On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 10:55:02 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 1/17/2024 7:36 AM, legg wrote:
Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather.
This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
prevent cranking and startup.
Block heaters are inexpensive (to purchase) and simple to
install -- knock out a freeze plug and replace with heater.
I've always had them in some of the larger V8s that I've
driven when living "north" (e.g., Chicago).
A friend doing a stint in North Dakota claimed that you
always fed the parking meter -- because the SWITCHED outlet
made available to the parked car would turn off when the
meter expired.
Metered parking is too short-term, but outdoor day lots will
provide sockets or lose clients.
[Larger commercial vehicles, I'm told, were run continuously
in the colder months -- fuel being cheaper than trying to start
overly thickened oil]
That's a diesel thing, mostly, and you're talking about
reefer traction vehicles in unserviced layby areas. It's not
cost, so much as warm-up times and cab use. Some can be
time and temperature controlled for intermittent running.
With commuter vehicles, I guess diesel owners just do
what experience (or the manual) tells them they can get
away with.
Battery blankets are also a real thing.
They're powered by dedicated 3pin line cords, plugged into 120vac
distribution. You'll see AC outlets in parking lots and garages,
located for that sole purpose (not fused for > 10A). The cord dangles
out of the grill, but may need an extension cord to reach an outlet.
Parking meters for folks who have to park at the curb.
I would keep mine plugged in even when garaged!
Home garages or car ports usually have an easily accessed socketry,
or extension cords. Owners with fixed schedules will put this
on a timer to save $.
RV travellers in the summer are gratified to find available
power points - and disapointed to find they're blowing lower
capacity breakers when trying to use these.
(cold weather makes the engine load appear larger
and the battery capacity smaller... why not give the
car a break?)
Battery preconditioning for Tesla assumes it's at a charging station,
and so will use that power source to bring up the battery temperature
to a normal operating range. Have to assume low temperature operation
is included in the system's state machine.
Not unlike keeping your (starting) battery in the house...
I'll be curious to see how the heat affects battery life.
Here, starting batteries are rarely good for more than 3 years
(if you are wise, you replace yours *at* three years before
you find yourself stranded!)
None of the BEV owners I've known have kept their vehicles for more
than 2 years so no real data points to consult.
It's a seller's market ($$), as far as EV's go, but you can navigate
the Trans-Canada highway with one, now, if you have to.
Don't know why I'm involved in this discussion. I don't drive.
Everyone else in the family does. Their work either builds or
services vehicles. In my home town, if it doesn't have wheels,
they're not interested. Have never been able to earn a living
there. (Gone broke twice, trying.)
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook
It's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that gets
below 0F.
Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legal >consequences.
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:52:30 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook
It's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that gets
below 0F.
Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legal
consequences.
This is interesting:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/tesla-drivers-have-highest-accident-rate-study-says
Over 2.5x the accident rate of some other cars.
Is that caused by the car, the drivers, both? Probably drivers.
On 1/18/24 21:43, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 16 Jan 2024 08:52:30 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook
It's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that gets
below 0F.
Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legal
consequences.
This is interesting:
https://www.foxbusiness.com/markets/tesla-drivers-have-highest-accident-rate-study-says
Over 2.5x the accident rate of some other cars.
Is that caused by the car, the drivers, both? Probably drivers.
I wonder how much of that is due to the user interface. Modern
cars have far too many gadgets. They pretend to "assist" driving,
but in reality merely divert attention if they do not squarely
interfere with it.
Lately, my car has been warning me of "Limited visibility". What
were they thinking? That I'm watching TV or something? Sheesh!
Jeroen Belleman
I wonder how much of that is due to the user interface. Modern
cars have far too many gadgets. They pretend to "assist" driving,
but in reality merely divert attention if they do not squarely
interfere with it.
Lately, my car has been warning me of "Limited visibility". What
were they thinking? That I'm watching TV or something? Sheesh!
On 1/18/2024 4:09 PM, Jeroen Belleman wrote:
I wonder how much of that is due to the user interface. Modern
cars have far too many gadgets. They pretend to "assist" driving,
but in reality merely divert attention if they do not squarely
interfere with it.
Most of the problem lies in the UI -- but a good portion also
is a result of bad functional decisions.
Driving a car used to be largely intuitive; turn signals,
select-a-matic radio, HVAC controls, seat/mirror positioning,
etc. All you had to do was familiarize yourself with the locations
of the controls and you could operate them without taking your eyes
off the road.
Want heat? Move this lever to HERE. ACbrrr? Move it to THERE.
Want the air directed out the floor vents? Slide to THIS
position. Out the vents in the dash? Then this OTHER position
is appropriate.
Third radio preset is the third button from the left -- one, two THREE!
Turn knob for volume, outer ring for "tone". Other outer ring was
balance with inner fine-tuning for radio.
Too many engineers are designing UIs instead of application specialists. Imagine a vehicle with nothing but a touchscreen:Â "You can put any
control you want on the screen! <big, self-satisfied smile>"
"Yeah, and you'll always have the driver looking at *it* instead of the road!"
SWMBO's vehicle has separate temperature controls for driver and passenger (likewise for rear seat occupants). And, a simple mechanism to SYNC
them together (to the driver's control). "Do I push SYNC a second time
to UNsync them? No, that didn't work. What else can I *try*?" (note
the driver's attention is now on solving the HVAC control problem
instead of piloting the vehicle)
Pushbutton (soft toggle) control to *enable* the ACrrr. But, no way to
tell if it is currently enabled, or not! "Push the button and see if
the display indicates OFF or ON; then push it, again, if not what you wanted."
Car remembers *certain* driver-specific settings. Like the fact that
I want "USB" to be the first audio choice (from a dozen or so) while
SWMBO wants "HARD DISK". So, I can find the selection I want knowing the list is ordered as I left it.
But, the actual selection that I will encounter when I enter the
vehicle will depend on how the previous driver left it! "What the
hell radio station is THIS? It's not even in my list of favorites
(so how did 'I' pick it?)."
I.e., if you are going to remember some things as driver-specific
(seat positions, mirror positions, radio presets, order of audio
input source choices, etc.) then why would you NOT remember ALL
of them? Why leave the drive puzzled wondering why something
isn't as he expected it to be?
Lately, my car has been warning me of "Limited visibility". What
were they thinking? That I'm watching TV or something? Sheesh!
Or, annunciators with no intuitive interpretations:
"What the hell does THAT sound signify? I've never heard it, before..."
There are "indicators" in SWMBOs vehicle that apparently reflect SOMETHING; but, I'll be damned if I can find a correlation between them and any other observable state in the vehicle!
So much information that it's effectively NO information!
And its automatic gearbox! A piece of shit! You have to move the
lever backwards to drive forwards, or forwards to reverse, if
it obeys at all. Under certain circumstances, it will just ignore
my input, I haven't yet figured out all of those. The lever always
returns to the same position, so there is no no way to tell by feel
what state it's in. You have to *look*.
It has far too many modes. Efficiency, comfort, sport, manual, ...
It will change mode for no apparent reason, or at least I haven't
yet figured out what those reasons might be. It has two paddles at
the wheel for manually shifting up or down which are ignored half
the time, but which act with a good second of delay when they do
work. I've since long abandoned trying to use those. They're too unpredictable.
I have yet to discover how to prevent it from shifting up when I
want to use continuous engine brake in a steep descent, and no,
I'm not exceeding, or even approaching, maximum engine revs.
This does *not* help! In reality, a mechanical stick shift was so
much simpler! Grrr.
Most of the problem lies in the UI -- but a good portion also
is a result of bad functional decisions.
Driving a car used to be largely intuitive; turn signals,
select-a-matic radio, HVAC controls, seat/mirror positioning,
etc. All you had to do was familiarize yourself with the locations
of the controls and you could operate them without taking your eyes
off the road.
In article <uod9vo$31qr5$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid says...
Most of the problem lies in the UI -- but a good portion also
is a result of bad functional decisions.
Driving a car used to be largely intuitive; turn signals,
select-a-matic radio, HVAC controls, seat/mirror positioning,
etc. All you had to do was familiarize yourself with the locations
of the controls and you could operate them without taking your eyes
off the road.
You have a good point. Too much stuff in the car to do. I have had to
pull off the road several times to find out what button or where on the screen to push to get the car set where I wanted some things like the defroster.
Like one fellow told me his new car had a book on just the 'radio' that
was larger than the book for the operation og the car.
On 1/18/2024 7:35 AM, legg wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 10:55:02 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 1/17/2024 7:36 AM, legg wrote:
Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather. >>>> This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
prevent cranking and startup.
Block heaters are inexpensive (to purchase) and simple to
install -- knock out a freeze plug and replace with heater.
I've always had them in some of the larger V8s that I've
driven when living "north" (e.g., Chicago).
A friend doing a stint in North Dakota claimed that you
always fed the parking meter -- because the SWITCHED outlet
made available to the parked car would turn off when the
meter expired.
Metered parking is too short-term, but outdoor day lots will
provide sockets or lose clients.
Lots, here, are unattended. Like a "drive-in" theater but with
meters instead of speakers.
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 09:35:59 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:
On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 10:55:02 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 1/17/2024 7:36 AM, legg wrote:
Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather. >>>> This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
prevent cranking and startup.
Block heaters are inexpensive (to purchase) and simple to
install -- knock out a freeze plug and replace with heater.
I've always had them in some of the larger V8s that I've
driven when living "north" (e.g., Chicago).
A friend doing a stint in North Dakota claimed that you
always fed the parking meter -- because the SWITCHED outlet
made available to the parked car would turn off when the
meter expired.
Metered parking is too short-term, but outdoor day lots will
provide sockets or lose clients.
What's an "outdoor day lot"? We don't have them here.
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 07:49:45 -0800, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:
On Thu, 18 Jan 2024 09:35:59 -0500, legg <legg@nospam.magma.ca> wrote:A parking lot on undeveloped or demolished property, paved
On Wed, 17 Jan 2024 10:55:02 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 1/17/2024 7:36 AM, legg wrote:
Most North American cars above the 48th parallel are equiped with
plug-in block heaters to maintain engine temperatures in cold weather. >>>>> This ensures that lubrication and cooling system components don't
prevent cranking and startup.
Block heaters are inexpensive (to purchase) and simple to
install -- knock out a freeze plug and replace with heater.
I've always had them in some of the larger V8s that I've
driven when living "north" (e.g., Chicago).
A friend doing a stint in North Dakota claimed that you
always fed the parking meter -- because the SWITCHED outlet
made available to the parked car would turn off when the
meter expired.
Metered parking is too short-term, but outdoor day lots will
provide sockets or lose clients.
What's an "outdoor day lot"? We don't have them here.
for leased commercial parking in urban areas that serves mostly
day commuter traffic.
I bet there's actually more of this in warmer climes, than here,
where indoor parking is in more demand as the temperatures drop.
'Employee Parking' is less likely to be serviced, unless it's
for civil servants.;-]
RL
On Tuesday, January 16, 2024 at 10:53:51?AM UTC-6, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.fox32chicago.com/news/dead-teslas-oak-brook
It's probably not a good idea to buy a Tesla in a place that gets
below 0F.
Some day a Tesla will freeze up and kill some people, with legal
consequences.
Frozen Tesla sounds like a drink one would order at a bar. <snicker>
Metered parking is too short-term, but outdoor day lots will
provide sockets or lose clients.
Lots, here, are unattended. Like a "drive-in" theater but with
meters instead of speakers.
It's usually automated or policed here.
The trend, nationally, (at least in cities) seems to be to
discourage traffic in the congested inner cities. [...]
/20/24 22:39, Don Y wrote:
[...]
The trend, nationally, (at least in cities) seems to be to
discourage traffic in the congested inner cities. [...]
Yes. And they do that by making lots of annoying obstacles,
causing cars to spend more time on the road, causing *worse*
congestion than before.
On 1/20/24 22:39, Don Y wrote:
[...]
The trend, nationally, (at least in cities) seems to be to
discourage traffic in the congested inner cities. [...]
Yes. And they do that by making lots of annoying obstacles,
causing cars to spend more time on the road, causing *worse*
congestion than before.
It is just the opposite in my town. They have the stop lights set so
that you usually get stopped every 2nd light. That is 'so you can look
at the stores and window shop'. The main street is only about 15 blocks long. It used to be 2 lanesw each way but they installed bicycle lanes
and it is only one lane and a turn lane for most of it now. The cross
road is about 8 blocks of stop lights and then a long streach to stop
lights about every 3 blocks for about 15 blocks in one direction to the interstate.
In article <uohh94$3rloc$1@dont-email.me>, jeroen@nospam.please says...
/20/24 22:39, Don Y wrote:
[...]
The trend, nationally, (at least in cities) seems to be to
discourage traffic in the congested inner cities. [...]
Yes. And they do that by making lots of annoying obstacles,
causing cars to spend more time on the road, causing *worse*
congestion than before.
It is just the opposite in my town. They have the stop lights set so
that you usually get stopped every 2nd light. That is 'so you can look
at the stores and window shop'. The main street is only about 15 blocks >long. It used to be 2 lanesw each way but they installed bicycle lanes
and it is only one lane and a turn lane for most of it now. The cross
road is about 8 blocks of stop lights and then a long streach to stop
lights about every 3 blocks for about 15 blocks in one direction to the >interstate.
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