There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the
phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

Yes, I first read about phase shifted bridge 1990 in ED or maybe EDN.
Because all the gates are driven 50:50 it lends itself easily to gate transformer drive.

Going into an LLC is very workable. I am thinking of using that topology myself. I thought it was novel until I found a TRW paper from the early
1960s !




--
piglet

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 12:44:24 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

onsdag den 3. januar 2024 kl. 20.29.19 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the
phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

should easily do that with the PIOs

If I did a 2-channel HV supply, that would need, I guess, three square
waves. On as the "reference" side of both supplies, and then a phase
shiftable square wave for each supply.

The frequency might be, say, 50 to 100 KHz and I'd want to shift the
phases with 10s of ns resolution. Probably needs an FPGA.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 22:56:13 -0000 (UTC), piglet
<erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:

john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the
phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

Yes, I first read about phase shifted bridge 1990 in ED or maybe EDN.
Because all the gates are driven 50:50 it lends itself easily to gate >transformer drive.

It is more elegant than PWM.

Going into an LLC is very workable. I am thinking of using that topology >myself. I thought it was novel until I found a TRW paper from the early
1960s !

I hate it when my brilliant inventions turn out to be 50 years old.

Series resonating gives a free voltage boost and takes out the
transformer parasitics and probably reduces spike noise.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 15:41:57 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

onsdag den 3. januar 2024 kl. 20.29.19 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the
phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

I wonder if regular pwm into an FF clocked by raising and one FF clocked by falling give you the two signals?

Yeah, the RP2040 has some fancy counter-timers. Maybe they can do it,
possibly with a little help.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 4/01/2024 10:47 am, john larkin wrote:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 22:56:13 -0000 (UTC), piglet
<erichpwagner@hotmail.com> wrote:

john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the
phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too

Yes, I first read about phase shifted bridge 1990 in ED or maybe EDN.
Because all the gates are driven 50:50 it lends itself easily to gate
transformer drive.

It is more elegant than PWM.

Going into an LLC is very workable. I am thinking of using that topology
myself. I thought it was novel until I found a TRW paper from the early
1960s !

I hate it when my brilliant inventions turn out to be 50 years old.

But it's nice when a neat, but impractical, idea you had in 1975 turns
out to be useful in 1993 when the technology had moved on a bit.

Most inventions get invented in several places at much the same time,
but this one wasn't.

Series resonating gives a free voltage boost and takes out the
transformer parasitics and probably reduces spike noise.

Some of the parasitics, and as long as there is switching there is
always some switching noise.

And you can do some fine phase shifting on clock edges with the
MC100EP195/6 part - 10psec steps on an up to 10.6nsec delay, and the
MC100EO196 lets you (slowly) analog tweak below that.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 01:16:01 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 4. januar 2024 kl. 03.10.48 UTC+1 skrev Anthony William Sloman:

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 10:57:28?AM UTC+11, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 4. januar 2024 kl. 00.42.02 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 12:44:24 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: onsdag den 3. januar 2024 kl. 20.29.19 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a >> > > >> load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have >> > > >> seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the
phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

should easily do that with the PIOs

If I did a 2-channel HV supply, that would need, I guess, three square >> > > waves. On as the "reference" side of both supplies, and then a phase
shiftable square wave for each supply.

The frequency might be, say, 50 to 100 KHz and I'd want to shift the
phases with 10s of ns resolution. Probably needs an FPGA.

PIOs run at the full up to 133MHz pico clock

https://www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/mc100ep196-d.pdf

offers up to 10.6nsec digitally tunable in steps of 10ps and is analog fine tunable below that. Similar parts from Motorola date back to about the early 1990's. The delay has some temperature drift, but if you are fine tuning for a specific output

voltage the feedback loop can take that out.

and what would you use that for?

The idea of using a bunch of obsolete ECL glue logic is, well,
unreasonable.

Those old ECL delay lines were terrible anyhow. That one costs about
20x an RP2040 and uses more power.

Can an RP2040 timer block run at 130 MHz? I should look that up. They
are pretty fancy. I don't think that even a dedicated CPU core could
make my phase shifted bridge drives with code bit-banging ports.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On a sunny day (Wed, 03 Jan 2024 11:29:02 -0800) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <olcbpihia58uugpv9g3ptumif14qru2007@4ax.com>:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

Is it not much simpler to drive a capacitor with L to ground from a complementary output stage?

+
|
T1
| C1 D1
|------||-------|>|----------
| | |
T2 L1 ===
| | --- C2
: | |
/// /// ///

Now Q of C1 L1 and load sets the voltage, no transformer needed.
Simple PIC micro can drive that.

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

PIC micro.
Has hardware PWM generator and comparators that can directly switch the PWM off.
Used many times.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 04:18:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 03 Jan 2024 11:29:02 -0800) it happened john larkin ><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <olcbpihia58uugpv9g3ptumif14qru2007@4ax.com>:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >>phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

Is it not much simpler to drive a capacitor with L to ground from a complementary output stage?

+
|
T1
| C1 D1
|------||-------|>|----------
| | |
T2 L1 ===
| | --- C2
: | |
/// /// ///

Now Q of C1 L1 and load sets the voltage, no transformer needed.
Simple PIC micro can drive that.

The transformer provides step-up and isolation. I kind of like the
full-bridge drive, to put 48 volts p-p into the transformer primary
circuit.

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

PIC micro.
Has hardware PWM generator and comparators that can directly switch the PWM off.
Used many times.

I'm plannng to use RP2040 in this product line.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 5/01/2024 4:17 am, John Larkin wrote:

On Thu, 4 Jan 2024 01:16:01 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

torsdag den 4. januar 2024 kl. 03.10.48 UTC+1 skrev Anthony William Sloman: >>> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 10:57:28?AM UTC+11, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 4. januar 2024 kl. 00.42.02 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 12:44:24 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen
<lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: onsdag den 3. januar 2024 kl. 20.29.19 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a >>>>>>> load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control >>>>>>> delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have >>>>>>> seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >>>>>>> phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an >>>>>>> FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too. >>>>>>

should easily do that with the PIOs

If I did a 2-channel HV supply, that would need, I guess, three square >>>>> waves. On as the "reference" side of both supplies, and then a phase >>>>> shiftable square wave for each supply.

The frequency might be, say, 50 to 100 KHz and I'd want to shift the >>>>> phases with 10s of ns resolution. Probably needs an FPGA.

PIOs run at the full up to 133MHz pico clock

https://www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/mc100ep196-d.pdf

offers up to 10.6nsec digitally tunable in steps of 10ps and is analog fine tunable below that. Similar parts from Motorola date back to about the early 1990's. The delay has some temperature drift, but if you are fine tuning for a specific output

voltage the feedback loop can take that out.

and what would you use that for?

Fine control of the mark-to-space ratio, as should have been obvious.

The idea of using a bunch of obsolete ECL glue logic is, well,
unreasonable.

The MC100EP196 is a clock timing control part - not "glue logic" - and
Mouser have 493 in stock so it doesn't seem to be obsolete.

Those old ECL delay lines were terrible anyhow. That one costs about 20x an RP2040 and uses more power.

But they can drive properly terminated transmission lines, and if you
are relying on fine control of mark-to-space ratio you don't want
reflections moving the switching edges around.

Can an RP2040 timer block run at 130 MHz? I should look that up. They
are pretty fancy. I don't think that even a dedicated CPU core could
make my phase shifted bridge drives with code bit-banging ports.

But even at 130MHz a counter-based timer has a granularity of 7.7nsec.
The MC100EP195 gets that down to 10psec.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On a sunny day (Thu, 04 Jan 2024 20:59:16 -0800) it happened John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in2fpitju1b2163tpb5qhmhs97qeufvu4m@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 04:18:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 03 Jan 2024 11:29:02 -0800) it happened john larkin >><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <olcbpihia58uugpv9g3ptumif14qru2007@4ax.com>:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a >>>load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control >>>delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have >>>seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >>>phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

Is it not much simpler to drive a capacitor with L to ground from a complementary output stage?

+
|
T1
| C1 D1
|------||-------|>|----------
| | |
T2 L1 ===
| | --- C2
: | |
/// /// ///

Now Q of C1 L1 and load sets the voltage, no transformer needed.
Simple PIC micro can drive that.

The transformer provides step-up and isolation.

That circuit has both sides connected to ground?
Or is that not a ground on V1 negative supply?

I kind of like the
full-bridge drive, to put 48 volts p-p into the transformer primary
circuit.

Yes, all depends on the amount of power needed...

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

PIC micro.
Has hardware PWM generator and comparators that can directly switch the PWM off.
Used many times.

I'm plannng to use RP2040 in this product line.

If more tasks are needed and that RP2040 has a hardware facility to make PWM yes
If not using a PIC is simple, interrupt increments a counter, sets a pin, again counter resets a pin.
Or use the build in PWM generator.
Main routine reads ADCs sets counter values. drives an LCD, etc...
The 18F14K22 has 4 ADCs, a hardware comparator (for cycle by cycle current liming for example), 64 MHz internal PLL clock..
This uses the PIC's PWM generator:
https://panteltje.online/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/power_box_diagram_img_1817.jpg use ctrl+ in browser to enlarge and read circuit diagram.
I use a current transformer to sense transistor current and trigger the PIC hardware comparator
making the cycle by cycle urrent protection.
The PIC ADCs read current and voltage and display it on an LCD, no interrupst anywhere needed.
http://panteltje.online/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/

You could reduce diode voltage drop, think I got the idea here in this group?
https://panteltje.online/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_diagram_img_0968.jpg
https://panteltje.online/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_working_img_0965.jpg

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Wed, 03 Jan 2024 11:29:02 -0800, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

If you're driving a load, you'll be dealing with large common-mode
components.

If you're driving an isolation transformer, this won't be a major
issue.

RL

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 08:47:50 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

fredag den 5. januar 2024 kl. 05.15.37 UTC+1 skrev Anthony William Sloman:

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 8:16:06?PM UTC+11, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 4. januar 2024 kl. 03.10.48 UTC+1 skrev Anthony William Sloman:

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 10:57:28?AM UTC+11, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 4. januar 2024 kl. 00.42.02 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 12:44:24 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >> > > > > <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: onsdag den 3. januar 2024 kl. 20.29.19 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control >> > > > > >> delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >> > > > > >> phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

should easily do that with the PIOs

If I did a 2-channel HV supply, that would need, I guess, three square
waves. On as the "reference" side of both supplies, and then a phase >> > > > > shiftable square wave for each supply.

The frequency might be, say, 50 to 100 KHz and I'd want to shift the >> > > > > phases with 10s of ns resolution. Probably needs an FPGA.

PIOs run at the full up to 133MHz pico clock

https://www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/mc100ep196-d.pdf

offers up to 10.6nsec digitally tunable in steps of 10ps and is analog fine tunable below that. Similar parts from Motorola date back to about the early 1990's. The delay has some temperature drift, but if you are fine tuning for a specific output

voltage the feedback loop can take that out.

and what would you use that for?

Fine control of the male-to-space ratio. I did think that was obvious.

you must be joking, not even Rube Goldberg would think that was a good idea

Sloman never jokes. Never.

If a timer channel can run at 125 MHz, and my resonant drive is, say,
50 KHz, that ratio is 2500:1, which gives me pretty good resolution to
control the HV output. Some cute tricks could improve that too, like
some delta-sigma twiddling with the quantized phase shifts.

Should work.

With feedack from the HV out and some luck on time constants, it might
just dither itself to better resolution.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 08:47:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 04 Jan 2024 20:59:16 -0800) it happened John Larkin ><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in2fpitju1b2163tpb5qhmhs97qeufvu4m@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 04:18:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 03 Jan 2024 11:29:02 -0800) it happened john larkin >>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <olcbpihia58uugpv9g3ptumif14qru2007@4ax.com>:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a >>>>load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control >>>>delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have >>>>seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >>>>phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

Is it not much simpler to drive a capacitor with L to ground from a complementary output stage?

+
|
T1
| C1 D1
|------||-------|>|----------
| | |
T2 L1 ===
| | --- C2
: | |
/// /// ///

Now Q of C1 L1 and load sets the voltage, no transformer needed.
Simple PIC micro can drive that.

The transformer provides step-up and isolation.

That circuit has both sides connected to ground?
Or is that not a ground on V1 negative supply?

My 24 volt supply will be grounded, but I want the HV output channels
to float.

Are you commenting on the quality of my hand-drawn schematic?

I kind of like the
full-bridge drive, to put 48 volts p-p into the transformer primary >>circuit.

Yes, all depends on the amount of power needed...

Not a lot, so I may be able to use that cute little IXYS driver.

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an >>>>FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

PIC micro.
Has hardware PWM generator and comparators that can directly switch the PWM off.
Used many times.

I'm plannng to use RP2040 in this product line.

If more tasks are needed and that RP2040 has a hardware facility to make PWM yes
If not using a PIC is simple, interrupt increments a counter, sets a pin, again counter resets a pin.
Or use the build in PWM generator.
Main routine reads ADCs sets counter values. drives an LCD, etc...
The 18F14K22 has 4 ADCs, a hardware comparator (for cycle by cycle current liming for example), 64 MHz internal PLL clock..
This uses the PIC's PWM generator:
https://panteltje.online/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/power_box_diagram_img_1817.jpg
use ctrl+ in browser to enlarge and read circuit diagram.
I use a current transformer to sense transistor current and trigger the PIC hardware comparator
making the cycle by cycle urrent protection.
The PIC ADCs read current and voltage and display it on an LCD, no interrupst anywhere needed.
http://panteltje.online/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/

You could reduce diode voltage drop, think I got the idea here in this group?
https://panteltje.online/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_diagram_img_0968.jpg
https://panteltje.online/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_working_img_0965.jpg

It will probably need a C-W voltage multiplier after the transformer,
depending on the transformer I can find. I'm thinking 1500 volts out
per channel, maybe 2KV. Diode drops won't matter at HV, low current.

A C-W multiplier lets me use cheap SOT-23 diodes and reasonable caps,
to.

I'm planning a new product line and was just toying with possible
boxes. A dual HV supply might be fun.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 13:04:59 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 2:29:19?PM UTC-5, john larkin wrote:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the
phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

May I ask how much power is being consumed in the 500 V circuit? Since your step-up is ~ 20:1, that would be a reduction of load resistance by a factor of 400 in the primary circuit, in parallel with the resonant inductance. It doesn't look like a

hopeful candidate for high Q, which is usually expected when people say resonance.

I'm thinking maybe 1.5 or 2 KV at a couple of watts, per isolated
channel.

It does have the advantage of a single ended power supply delivering the same power as a bipolar, which could be a big simplification. And if it had any Q, it does eliminate a lot of broadband spikey stuff that creates radiated emi. So the circuit is

not a total dud.

High praise!

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 6/01/2024 9:09 am, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 08:47:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 04 Jan 2024 20:59:16 -0800) it happened John Larkin
<jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in2fpitju1b2163tpb5qhmhs97qeufvu4m@4ax.com>: >>

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 04:18:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje
<pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

<snip>

It will probably need a C-W voltage multiplier after the transformer, depending on the transformer I can find.

Be adventurous. Get one wound, or printed, these days.

I'm thinking 1500 volts out.
per channel, maybe 2KV. Diode drops won't matter at HV, low current.

And it's going to float? That much insulation will be rare in an off-the
shelf high-frequency transformer.

A C-W multiplier lets me use cheap SOT-23 diodes and reasonable caps,
too.

I'm planning a new product line and was just toying with possible
boxes. A dual HV supply might be fun.

We always bought them in. The woods were full of photomultiplier power
supply specialists. They have probably branched out into providing power supplies for high-voltage electro-optic modulators as well these days.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On 6/01/2024 8:45 am, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 08:47:50 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

fredag den 5. januar 2024 kl. 05.15.37 UTC+1 skrev Anthony William Sloman: >>> On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 8:16:06?PM UTC+11, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 4. januar 2024 kl. 03.10.48 UTC+1 skrev Anthony William Sloman:

On Thursday, January 4, 2024 at 10:57:28?AM UTC+11, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:

torsdag den 4. januar 2024 kl. 00.42.02 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:

On Wed, 3 Jan 2024 12:44:24 -0800 (PST), Lasse Langwadt Christensen >>>>>>> <lang...@fonz.dk> wrote: onsdag den 3. januar 2024 kl. 20.29.19 UTC+1 skrev john larkin:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a >>>>>>>>> load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control >>>>>>>>> delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have >>>>>>>>> seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >>>>>>>>> phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an >>>>>>>>> FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

should easily do that with the PIOs

If I did a 2-channel HV supply, that would need, I guess, three square >>>>>>> waves. On as the "reference" side of both supplies, and then a phase >>>>>>> shiftable square wave for each supply.

The frequency might be, say, 50 to 100 KHz and I'd want to shift the >>>>>>> phases with 10s of ns resolution. Probably needs an FPGA.

PIOs run at the full up to 133MHz pico clock

https://www.onsemi.com/pdf/datasheet/mc100ep196-d.pdf

offers up to 10.6nsec digitally tunable in steps of 10ps and is analog fine tunable below that. Similar parts from Motorola date back to about the early 1990's. The delay has some temperature drift, but if you are fine tuning for a specific output

voltage the feedback loop can take that out.

and what would you use that for?

Fine control of the male-to-space ratio. I did think that was obvious.

you must be joking, not even Rube Goldberg would think that was a good idea

Rube Goldberg and Heath Robinson were cartoonists, not electronic engineers.

Sloman never jokes. Never.

John Larkin never gets my jokes, even the unsubtle ones,

If a timer channel can run at 125 MHz, and my resonant drive is, say,
50 KHz, that ratio is 2500:1, which gives me pretty good resolution to control the HV output.

You keep telling us about exotic switching transistors (SiC etc) where
the switching losses don't catch up with dissipation in the on state
below a couple of MHz. Why limit yourself to 50kHz?

Some cute tricks could improve that too, like
some delta-sigma twiddling with the quantized phase shifts.

Should work.

Sigma-delta relies on the digital filtering to move most of the
switching noise up to the high frequency end. You can do it
systematically, as I discussed in my 1996 paper.

Sloman A.W., Buggs P., Molloy J., and Stewart D. “A
microcontroller-based driver to stabilise the temperature of an optical
stage to 1mK in the range 4C to 38C, using a Peltier heat pump and a
thermistor sensor” Measurement Science and Technology, 7 1653-64 (1996)

With feedack from the HV out and some luck on time constants, it might
just dither itself to better resolution.

Circuits don't dither themselves. You have to design it in, as also
discussed in my 1996 paper.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On a sunny day (Fri, 05 Jan 2024 14:09:56 -0800) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <t5ugpilo3r4tg912oif2av49872u0ej8ob@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 08:47:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 04 Jan 2024 20:59:16 -0800) it happened John Larkin >><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in2fpitju1b2163tpb5qhmhs97qeufvu4m@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 04:18:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 03 Jan 2024 11:29:02 -0800) it happened john larkin >>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <olcbpihia58uugpv9g3ptumif14qru2007@4ax.com>:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a >>>>>load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control >>>>>delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have >>>>>seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >>>>>phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

Is it not much simpler to drive a capacitor with L to ground from a complementary output stage?

+
|
T1
| C1 D1
|------||-------|>|----------
| | |
T2 L1 ===
| | --- C2
: | |
/// /// ///

Now Q of C1 L1 and load sets the voltage, no transformer needed.
Simple PIC micro can drive that.

The transformer provides step-up and isolation.

That circuit has both sides connected to ground?
Or is that not a ground on V1 negative supply?

My 24 volt supply will be grounded, but I want the HV output channels
to float.

Are you commenting on the quality of my hand-drawn schematic?

I kind of like the
full-bridge drive, to put 48 volts p-p into the transformer primary >>>circuit.

Yes, all depends on the amount of power needed...

Not a lot, so I may be able to use that cute little IXYS driver.

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an >>>>>FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too. >>>>

PIC micro.
Has hardware PWM generator and comparators that can directly switch the PWM off.
Used many times.

I'm plannng to use RP2040 in this product line.

If more tasks are needed and that RP2040 has a hardware facility to make PWM yes
If not using a PIC is simple, interrupt increments a counter, sets a pin, again counter resets a pin.
Or use the build in PWM generator.
Main routine reads ADCs sets counter values. drives an LCD, etc...
The 18F14K22 has 4 ADCs, a hardware comparator (for cycle by cycle current liming for example), 64 MHz internal PLL clock..
This uses the PIC's PWM generator:
https://panteltje.online/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/power_box_diagram_img_1817.jpg
use ctrl+ in browser to enlarge and read circuit diagram.
I use a current transformer to sense transistor current and trigger the PIC hardware comparator
making the cycle by cycle urrent protection.
The PIC ADCs read current and voltage and display it on an LCD, no interrupst anywhere needed.
http://panteltje.online/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/

You could reduce diode voltage drop, think I got the idea here in this group? >> https://panteltje.online/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_diagram_img_0968.jpg
https://panteltje.online/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_working_img_0965.jpg

It will probably need a C-W voltage multiplier after the transformer, >depending on the transformer I can find. I'm thinking 1500 volts out
per channel, maybe 2KV. Diode drops won't matter at HV, low current.

Dunno what he power requirement is, this worked for me for my PMT:
https://panteltje.online/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg
https://panteltje.online/pub/PMT_HV_supply_with_regulator_img_3175.jpg
https://panteltje.online/pub/PMT_HV_generator_solder_side_img_3172.jpg

Or just get an old TV voltage multiplier:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/sc_pic_pcb_test_in_box_img_2452.jpg

A C-W multiplier lets me use cheap SOT-23 diodes and reasonable caps,
to.

I'm planning a new product line and was just toying with possible
boxes. A dual HV supply might be fun.

There are likely many possibilities, I usually just use what I find laying about..
Or get cheap stuff from ebay...
Old CRT monitors had nice transformers, rectifiers, 15625 kHz 25 kV
Must be millions still available...
I keep am old CRT color monitor in the attic as my own personal particle accelerator :-)
Tried all sorts of things:
https://panteltje.online/pub/multi_transformer_2_kV_PMT_supply_img_3126.jpg And there is the very high voltage ebay thing:
https://www.ebay.com/b/High-Voltage-Generator/117000/bn_7023272732
cannot beat the price, I have one :-)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 06:02:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 05 Jan 2024 14:09:56 -0800) it happened john larkin ><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <t5ugpilo3r4tg912oif2av49872u0ej8ob@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 08:47:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 04 Jan 2024 20:59:16 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in2fpitju1b2163tpb5qhmhs97qeufvu4m@4ax.com>: >>>

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 04:18:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 03 Jan 2024 11:29:02 -0800) it happened john larkin >>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <olcbpihia58uugpv9g3ptumif14qru2007@4ax.com>: >>>>>

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a >>>>>>load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control >>>>>>delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have >>>>>>seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >>>>>>phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

Is it not much simpler to drive a capacitor with L to ground from a complementary output stage?

+
|
T1
| C1 D1
|------||-------|>|----------
| | |
T2 L1 ===
| | --- C2
: | |
/// /// ///

Now Q of C1 L1 and load sets the voltage, no transformer needed. >>>>>Simple PIC micro can drive that.

The transformer provides step-up and isolation.

That circuit has both sides connected to ground?
Or is that not a ground on V1 negative supply?

My 24 volt supply will be grounded, but I want the HV output channels
to float.

Are you commenting on the quality of my hand-drawn schematic?

I kind of like the
full-bridge drive, to put 48 volts p-p into the transformer primary >>>>circuit.

Yes, all depends on the amount of power needed...

Not a lot, so I may be able to use that cute little IXYS driver.

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an >>>>>>FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too. >>>>>

PIC micro.
Has hardware PWM generator and comparators that can directly switch the PWM off.
Used many times.

I'm plannng to use RP2040 in this product line.

If more tasks are needed and that RP2040 has a hardware facility to make PWM yes
If not using a PIC is simple, interrupt increments a counter, sets a pin, again counter resets a pin.
Or use the build in PWM generator.
Main routine reads ADCs sets counter values. drives an LCD, etc...
The 18F14K22 has 4 ADCs, a hardware comparator (for cycle by cycle current liming for example), 64 MHz internal PLL clock..
This uses the PIC's PWM generator:
https://panteltje.online/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/power_box_diagram_img_1817.jpg
use ctrl+ in browser to enlarge and read circuit diagram.
I use a current transformer to sense transistor current and trigger the PIC hardware comparator
making the cycle by cycle urrent protection.
The PIC ADCs read current and voltage and display it on an LCD, no interrupst anywhere needed.
http://panteltje.online/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/

You could reduce diode voltage drop, think I got the idea here in this group?
https://panteltje.online/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_diagram_img_0968.jpg
https://panteltje.online/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_working_img_0965.jpg

It will probably need a C-W voltage multiplier after the transformer, >>depending on the transformer I can find. I'm thinking 1500 volts out
per channel, maybe 2KV. Diode drops won't matter at HV, low current.

Dunno what he power requirement is, this worked for me for my PMT:
https://panteltje.online/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg https://panteltje.online/pub/PMT_HV_supply_with_regulator_img_3175.jpg https://panteltje.online/pub/PMT_HV_generator_solder_side_img_3172.jpg

Yeah, something like that but switchmode with voltage and current
sense ADCs and a digital control loop. It's still just an idea. I
have a couple of nice boxes and need stuff to go in them.

Or just get an old TV voltage multiplier:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/sc_pic_pcb_test_in_box_img_2452.jpg

A C-W multiplier lets me use cheap SOT-23 diodes and reasonable caps,
to.

I'm planning a new product line and was just toying with possible
boxes. A dual HV supply might be fun.

There are likely many possibilities, I usually just use what I find laying about..
Or get cheap stuff from ebay...
Old CRT monitors had nice transformers, rectifiers, 15625 kHz 25 kV
Must be millions still available...
I keep am old CRT color monitor in the attic as my own personal particle accelerator :-)
Tried all sorts of things:
https://panteltje.online/pub/multi_transformer_2_kV_PMT_supply_img_3126.jpg
And there is the very high voltage ebay thing:
https://www.ebay.com/b/High-Voltage-Generator/117000/bn_7023272732
cannot beat the price, I have one :-)

Does it really make 400 KV?

I design stuff to be manufractured and sold, preferably surface mount,
so I only use ebay or amazon parts for breadboards.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Sat, 6 Jan 2024 07:42:22 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

On Friday, January 5, 2024 at 5:13:11?PM UTC-5, john larkin wrote:

On Fri, 5 Jan 2024 13:04:59 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

On Wednesday, January 3, 2024 at 2:29:19?PM UTC-5, john larkin wrote:

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a
load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control
delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have
seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the
phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an
FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too.

May I ask how much power is being consumed in the 500 V circuit? Since your step-up is ~ 20:1, that would be a reduction of load resistance by a factor of 400 in the primary circuit, in parallel with the resonant inductance. It doesn't look like a

hopeful candidate for high Q, which is usually expected when people say resonance.

I'm thinking maybe 1.5 or 2 KV at a couple of watts, per isolated
channel.

It does have the advantage of a single ended power supply delivering the same power as a bipolar, which could be a big simplification. And if it had any Q, it does eliminate a lot of broadband spikey stuff that creates radiated emi. So the circuit is

not a total dud.

High praise!

I'm pretty sure you're going to have insert inductance in the secondary. My first cut/ guess/ wish/ ( no idea iow ) would be to make the L/Requivalent be about 10/w_resonant to achieve a Q of about 10. Doing that should allow your series C +

transformer L to actually be resonant and not pulled too much if not totally extinguished by the secondary load. And that spikey capacitor voltage doubler isn't helping the situation. Those hv capacitors won't be cheap, might as well go with the
transformer all the way.

I'd expect low loaded Q, 5ish or even less maybe.

A C-W multiplier uses low voltage diodes and caps. That's nice. Maybe
one HV cap at the output.

We have a 22nf 500v 1206 cap in stock, 13 cents. 22nF 1500V is $1.06,
not awful.

As you're probably aware, the transformer primary voltage will be Q x Vinput at resonance. That could be a good thing if it's reliable, as less step-up is required, or it can be a bad thing if it blows something.

Does your switching controller sense the resonance condition and modify its frequency to track it?

With low Q, I would use a fixed frequency and use the phase shift
trick to regulate the HV output, with ADCs to provide voltage and
current feedback of course.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On Mon, 8 Jan 2024 17:01:05 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:

On Monday, January 8, 2024 at 12:48:49?PM UTC-8, john larkin wrote:

A C-W multiplier uses low voltage diodes and caps. That's nice. Maybe
one HV cap at the output.

We have a 22nf 500v 1206 cap in stock, 13 cents. 22nF 1500V is $1.06,
not awful.

Oh, the story doesn't end there. The capacitor for 1500V isn't
awful, but have you priced a 1500V connector?

Yes, the connector problem is worse than finding a transformer. SHV
ain't too bad, but I'd prefer one with two isolated contacts. Needs
research.

I've used BNCs and RG59 at 10 KV, but that wouldn't be popular. SMAs
are actually fine at 2KV, ditto.

The Phoenix wire-screw connectors are a possibility. Skip some pins
maybe. V- skip GND skip V+ on a couple of 5-pins maybe.

It's not an OUTPUT filter capacitor until you have a connector.

Me, I've got a ceramic disk capacitor rated for 45kV, and
attaching endcaps to it requires a machine shop to carve
up big hunks of aluminum into spherical-like blobs.

Not surface mount?

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
* Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)

On a sunny day (Mon, 08 Jan 2024 12:38:13 -0800) it happened john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote in <ermopip67fn4u4hpl1jv3rgq7uam7jq2fm@4ax.com>:

On Sat, 06 Jan 2024 06:02:38 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:

On a sunny day (Fri, 05 Jan 2024 14:09:56 -0800) it happened john larkin >><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <t5ugpilo3r4tg912oif2av49872u0ej8ob@4ax.com>:

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 08:47:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:

On a sunny day (Thu, 04 Jan 2024 20:59:16 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <in2fpitju1b2163tpb5qhmhs97qeufvu4m@4ax.com>: >>>>

On Fri, 05 Jan 2024 04:18:40 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

On a sunny day (Wed, 03 Jan 2024 11:29:02 -0800) it happened john larkin >>>>>><jl@650pot.com> wrote in <olcbpihia58uugpv9g3ptumif14qru2007@4ax.com>: >>>>>>

There is a new-to-me power supply architecture, an H-bridge driving a >>>>>>>load, but with the phases on the two sides slid around to control >>>>>>>delivered power. TI does that in some chips, like UCC2895. I may have >>>>>>>seen the architecture first in this ng.

Anyhow, I was thinking about a high-voltage power supply with the >>>>>>>phase-shifted bridge driving a series-resonant transformer.

https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/tbiioti0gt2emknjc61p7/Res_HV_Supply.jpg?rlkey=f1gryr8vr4jdu2y46wsz6ch2k&raw=1

Is it not much simpler to drive a capacitor with L to ground from a complementary output stage?

+
|
T1
| C1 D1
|------||-------|>|----------
| | |
T2 L1 ===
| | --- C2
: | |
/// /// ///

Now Q of C1 L1 and load sets the voltage, no transformer needed. >>>>>>Simple PIC micro can drive that.

The transformer provides step-up and isolation.

That circuit has both sides connected to ground?
Or is that not a ground on V1 negative supply?

My 24 volt supply will be grounded, but I want the HV output channels
to float.

Are you commenting on the quality of my hand-drawn schematic?

I kind of like the
full-bridge drive, to put 48 volts p-p into the transformer primary >>>>>circuit.

Yes, all depends on the amount of power needed...

Not a lot, so I may be able to use that cute little IXYS driver.

I wonder if one of the cores of an RP2040 could do this without an >>>>>>>FPGA. It would of course need a voltage feedback loop in software too. >>>>>>

PIC micro.
Has hardware PWM generator and comparators that can directly switch the PWM off.
Used many times.

I'm plannng to use RP2040 in this product line.

If more tasks are needed and that RP2040 has a hardware facility to make PWM yes
If not using a PIC is simple, interrupt increments a counter, sets a pin, again counter resets a pin.
Or use the build in PWM generator.
Main routine reads ADCs sets counter values. drives an LCD, etc...
The 18F14K22 has 4 ADCs, a hardware comparator (for cycle by cycle current liming for example), 64 MHz internal PLL clock..
This uses the PIC's PWM generator:
https://panteltje.online/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/power_box_diagram_img_1817.jpg
use ctrl+ in browser to enlarge and read circuit diagram.
I use a current transformer to sense transistor current and trigger the PIC hardware comparator
making the cycle by cycle urrent protection.
The PIC ADCs read current and voltage and display it on an LCD, no interrupst anywhere needed.
http://panteltje.online/panteltje/pic/pwr_pic/

You could reduce diode voltage drop, think I got the idea here in this group?
https://panteltje.online/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_diagram_img_0968.jpg
https://panteltje.online/pub/power_pic/power_pic_synchronous_rectifier_working_img_0965.jpg

It will probably need a C-W voltage multiplier after the transformer, >>>depending on the transformer I can find. I'm thinking 1500 volts out
per channel, maybe 2KV. Diode drops won't matter at HV, low current.

Dunno what he power requirement is, this worked for me for my PMT:
https://panteltje.online/pub/PMT_regulated_power_supply_diagram_img_3182.jpg >> https://panteltje.online/pub/PMT_HV_supply_with_regulator_img_3175.jpg
https://panteltje.online/pub/PMT_HV_generator_solder_side_img_3172.jpg

Yeah, something like that but switchmode with voltage and current
sense ADCs and a digital control loop. It's still just an idea. I
have a couple of nice boxes and need stuff to go in them.

Or just get an old TV voltage multiplier:
https://panteltje.nl/panteltje/pic/sc_pic/sc_pic_pcb_test_in_box_img_2452.jpg

A C-W multiplier lets me use cheap SOT-23 diodes and reasonable caps,
to.

I'm planning a new product line and was just toying with possible
boxes. A dual HV supply might be fun.

There are likely many possibilities, I usually just use what I find laying about..
Or get cheap stuff from ebay...
Old CRT monitors had nice transformers, rectifiers, 15625 kHz 25 kV
Must be millions still available...
I keep am old CRT color monitor in the attic as my own personal particle accelerator :-)
Tried all sorts of things:
https://panteltje.online/pub/multi_transformer_2_kV_PMT_supply_img_3126.jpg >>And there is the very high voltage ebay thing:
https://www.ebay.com/b/High-Voltage-Generator/117000/bn_7023272732
cannot beat the price, I have one :-)

Does it really make 400 KV?

I tried to measure it, but no way could I see that much voltage.
Still fun, its in a box somewhere:-)

I design stuff to be manufractured and sold, preferably surface mount,
so I only use ebay or amazon parts for breadboards.

That is what China does too, hundreds of these HV generators are manufactured and sold.

If you scrolled down on that ebay link or search a bit more: there is plenty of HV generating stuff.
You can always learn from their designs
Look at that 1 Ge transistor circuit HV generator for the radiation monitoring modules.
That was MIL standard, and still works up to this day.
Cannot go into what I did for Plactre.






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