Gentlemen,
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not* rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains
is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
CD
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not*
rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains
is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
CD
BITD hybrid bridge rectifiers were used occasionally. SCR pre-regulators on >the primary side of a bog-standard transformer-rectifier supply also work, >sorta.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 15:03:11 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not*
rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains
is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
CD
BITD hybrid bridge rectifiers were used occasionally. SCR pre-regulators on >> the primary side of a bog-standard transformer-rectifier supply also work, >> sorta.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
I did a bunch of power amps that had a giant resistor with a shunt
triac on the transformer primary as a 1-step pre-regulator. It tended
to kill wirewould resistors from thermal fatigue, but the Welwyn porcelain-steel resistors fixed that.
I don't recall seeing a real switcher that ran off line AC. It doesn't
sound economical.
On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 8:26:29?AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not*
rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains
is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
I don't recall seeing a real switcher that ran off line AC. It doesn't
sound economical.
Well, yeah, I've seen one; it was OLD and that was thirty or forty years ago. >The 100VDC for some lecture halls/labs (arc lamp power for projectors?) was >generated by an AC motor driving a DC (switch mode because it
was commutated) generator. 100VDC output, stabilized by
feedback to the stator current.
Hey, old auto radios with vibrators were switch mode power supplies, too!
Gentlemen,
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not* >rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains
is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
CD
Gentlemen,
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not* rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains
is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
CD
On Wed, 27 Dec 2023 10:32:40 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Wednesday, December 27, 2023 at 8:26:29?AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
Gentlemen,
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not* >>> >> rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains >>> >> is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
I don't recall seeing a real switcher that ran off line AC. It doesn't
sound economical.
Well, yeah, I've seen one; it was OLD and that was thirty or forty years ago.
The 100VDC for some lecture halls/labs (arc lamp power for projectors?) was >>generated by an AC motor driving a DC (switch mode because it
was commutated) generator. 100VDC output, stabilized by
feedback to the stator current.
Hey, old auto radios with vibrators were switch mode power supplies, too!
And some synchronous rectified, too.
There were cool regulators and amps before power semis came along.
MG-sets, amplidynes, metadynes, carbon piles, magamps, thyratrons,
ignitrons, variacs.
Gentlemen,
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not* >rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains
is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
CD
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not* rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains
is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/slua517
Fig 8 says "bidgeless" when there is a diode bridge in plain sight.
Looks like a ton of complexity at little advantage.
On 2023-12-27, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> wrote:
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not*
rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains
is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
Does "bridgeless PFC" meet the requirements?
https://toshiba.semicon-storage.com/info/docget.jsp?did=68570
chapter 3.3
https://www.ti.com/lit/pdf/slua517
On Wednesday 27 December 2023 at 14:50:03 UTC, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Gentlemen,
Is there a switcher topology where the incoming mains supply is *not*
rectified before being fed into the chopper transistor? IOW, AC mains
is fed to some kind of PNPN triac-esque device which performs the
chopping?
CD
It's a standard approach to improving smpsu efficiency. I don't know of any using PNPN devices, modern hf smpsus want fast switching, not latching on. These psus require 2 switching devices to drive the transformer, so no cost saving.
The trend lately is a plain bridge rectifier off the AC line, a filter
cap, and some sort of GaN switcher running at high frquency.
Michael Schwingen wrote:
------------------------------------------
Only up to 75W (?) - above that, PFC is mandatory, at least in the EU.
** No way is using PFC mandatory.
The EU standard covering harmonic currents is chock full of exceptions and limitations.
Except for catagories like PCs, electronic lighting and TV sets, near everything else is allowed to continue to be sold with PSUs made the same way they have long been.
** Near everything else = class A items. It's a huge category.
I have not looked at the exact limits for each class, but I assume it is not >> possible to meet them without some kind of PFC - correct me if I am wrong.
** You need to look carefully at the " permissible harmonic current " numbers cited in the table for class A.
Only a very small percentage of such items exhibit harmonic currents exceeding those values.
Note that the steady rms current drawn from the supply would have to be approach the 16A limit for there to be a risk.
Michael Schwingen wrote:
----------------------------------------
Phil Allison
Only up to 75W (?) - above that, PFC is mandatory, at least in the EU.
** No way is using PFC mandatory.
The EU standard covering harmonic currents is chock full of exceptions and limitations.
Except for catagories like PCs, electronic lighting and TV sets, near everything else is allowed to continue to be sold with PSUs made the same way they have long been.
** Near everything else = class A items. It's a huge category.
I have not looked at the exact limits for each class, but I assume it is not >> possible to meet them without some kind of PFC - correct me if I am wrong.
** You need to look carefully at the " permissible harmonic current " numbers cited in the table for class A.
Only a very small percentage of such items exhibit harmonic currents exceeding those values.
Note that the steady rms current drawn from the supply would have to be approach the 16A limit for there to be a risk.
..... Phil
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