I was at the hardware store, today. A guy walked in with a
propane tank from a BBQ grill. The staff went ballistic!
"You have to take that around the back!"
"I already did. No one answered the door."
"You can't carry it through the store. It's *illegal*..."
which, immediately got me wondering if that's a truth
or just an exaggerated belief (illegal == not tolerated by store
policy)
Of course, such tanks (empty and full-ready-for-resale) are
always stored outside due to convenience and safety. So, it
*may* be true that local ordinances prevent them from being *in*
the store, regardless of duration.
[I recall, when getting forklift certified, asking the instructor
what to do in the event of a fire (cuz you are sitting ON the engine
and the fuel source is immediately behind your back). I expected
some PRACTICAL sort of advice -- like how to put it out, etc.
He ended up saying, "Get as far away as possible. Call the fire
department. AND TELL THEM YOU HAVE A PROPANE FORKLIFT FIRE. When
they arrive, they will likely park A BLOCK AWAY!"
I guess propane explosions are spectacular! ?]
So, anyone know if this is a universal prohibition, a local
requirement or just "store policy"?
On Friday, December 15, 2023 at 6:53:42?PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:burn at all.
I used to work with a fire alarm company in Freehold, New Jersey. They
had a sign on the wall
IN CASE OF FIRE
RUN, YELL "FIRE"
Propane burns VERY HOT, something like 4,000oF. Just being near it will burn you to death. When those big gas pipelines go up, they burn to a crisp everything within 500 ft. It must be extinguished from a distance. An empty propane tank really shouldn't
I was at the hardware store, today. A guy walked in with a
propane tank from a BBQ grill. The staff went ballistic!
  "You have to take that around the back!"
  "I already did. No one answered the door."
  "You can't carry it through the store. It's *illegal*..."
which, immediately got me wondering if that's a truth
or just an exaggerated belief (illegal == not tolerated by store
policy)
Of course, such tanks (empty and full-ready-for-resale) are
always stored outside due to convenience and safety. So, it
*may* be true that local ordinances prevent them from being *in*
the store, regardless of duration.
[I recall, when getting forklift certified, asking the instructor
what to do in the event of a fire (cuz you are sitting ON the engine
and the fuel source is immediately behind your back). I expected
some PRACTICAL sort of advice -- like how to put it out, etc.
He ended up saying, "Get as far away as possible. Call the fire department. AND TELL THEM YOU HAVE A PROPANE FORKLIFT FIRE. When
they arrive, they will likely park A BLOCK AWAY!"
I guess propane explosions are spectacular! ?]
So, anyone know if this is a universal prohibition, a local
requirement or just "store policy"?
I was at the hardware store, today. A guy walked in with a
propane tank from a BBQ grill. The staff went ballistic!
  "You have to take that around the back!"
  "I already did. No one answered the door."
  "You can't carry it through the store. It's *illegal*..."
which, immediately got me wondering if that's a truth
or just an exaggerated belief (illegal == not tolerated by store
policy)
I guess that if the flames hit the container, it can explode, and that
is a big problem. The fire itself, maybe not so much.
On 2023-12-16 00:24, Don Y wrote:
I was at the hardware store, today. A guy walked in with a
propane tank from a BBQ grill. The staff went ballistic!
   "You have to take that around the back!"
   "I already did. No one answered the door."
   "You can't carry it through the store. It's *illegal*..."
which, immediately got me wondering if that's a truth
or just an exaggerated belief (illegal == not tolerated by store
policy)
Of course, such tanks (empty and full-ready-for-resale) are
always stored outside due to convenience and safety. So, it
*may* be true that local ordinances prevent them from being *in*
the store, regardless of duration.
[I recall, when getting forklift certified, asking the instructor
what to do in the event of a fire (cuz you are sitting ON the engine
and the fuel source is immediately behind your back). I expected
some PRACTICAL sort of advice -- like how to put it out, etc.
He ended up saying, "Get as far away as possible. Call the fire
department. AND TELL THEM YOU HAVE A PROPANE FORKLIFT FIRE. When
they arrive, they will likely park A BLOCK AWAY!"
I guess propane explosions are spectacular! ?]
So, anyone know if this is a universal prohibition, a local
requirement or just "store policy"?
I guess that if the flames hit the container, it can explode, and that is a big
problem. The fire itself, maybe not so much.
Where I live, propane containers are rare; butane containers are much more "popular". So I'm not familiar with them. I heard they are more common in colder climates (because butane doesn't gasify that easily when cold).
On 2023-12-16 00:24, Don Y wrote:
I was at the hardware store, today. A guy walked in with a
propane tank from a BBQ grill. The staff went ballistic!
  "You have to take that around the back!"
  "I already did. No one answered the door."
  "You can't carry it through the store. It's *illegal*..."
which, immediately got me wondering if that's a truth
or just an exaggerated belief (illegal == not tolerated by store
policy)
It looks to me as if this situation is covered by Code 58 of the
National Fire Prevention Association code (which is probably
incorporated "by reference" into most local codes).
"In NFPA 58, buildings frequented by the public are limited to
cylinders with a propane capacity of 1 pound.
The total quantity
stored is limited to 200 pounds of propane. Buildings not frequented
by the public are limited to a maximum quantity of 300 pounds of
propane. The cylinder size is not restricted"
[I recall, when getting forklift certified, asking the instructor
what to do in the event of a fire (cuz you are sitting ON the engine
and the fuel source is immediately behind your back). I expected
some PRACTICAL sort of advice -- like how to put it out, etc.
He ended up saying, "Get as far away as possible. Call the fire department. AND TELL THEM YOU HAVE A PROPANE FORKLIFT FIRE. When
they arrive, they will likely park A BLOCK AWAY!"
I guess propane explosions are spectacular! ?]
So, anyone know if this is a universal prohibition, a local
requirement or just "store policy"?
I was at the hardware store, today. A guy walked in with a<snip>
propane tank from a BBQ grill. The staff went ballistic!
  "You have to take that around the back!"
  "I already did. No one answered the door."
  "You can't carry it through the store. It's *illegal*..."
which, immediately got me wondering if that's a truth
or just an exaggerated belief (illegal == not tolerated by store
policy)
Of course, such tanks (empty and full-ready-for-resale) are
always stored outside due to convenience and safety. So, it
*may* be true that local ordinances prevent them from being *in*
the store, regardless of duration.
On 2023-12-16 00:24, Don Y wrote:
I was at the hardware store, today. A guy walked in with a
propane tank from a BBQ grill. The staff went ballistic!
  "You have to take that around the back!"
  "I already did. No one answered the door."
  "You can't carry it through the store. It's *illegal*..."
which, immediately got me wondering if that's a truth
or just an exaggerated belief (illegal == not tolerated by store
policy)
It looks to me as if this situation is covered by Code 58 of the
National Fire Prevention Association code (which is probably
incorporated "by reference" into most local codes).
"In NFPA 58, buildings frequented by the public are limited to
cylinders with a propane capacity of 1 pound. The total quantity
stored is limited to 200 pounds of propane. Buildings not frequented
by the public are limited to a maximum quantity of 300 pounds of
propane. The cylinder size is not restricted"
In article <rm9v4kxk33.ln2@Telcontar.valinor>,
Carlos E.R. <robin_listas@es.invalid> wrote:
I guess that if the flames hit the container, it can explode, and that
is a big problem. The fire itself, maybe not so much.
Yup. It's a double-acting bomb.
The first boom is when the cylinder ruptures from overpressure. It's
like any metal tank exploding - it could throw metal shrapnel for
quite some distance. If the valve fails before the cylinder wall
does, it can turn the cylinder into a jet-propelled projectile.
The second boom is when the propane (or butane or etc.) mixes with the
air sufficiently and then flashes into flame. It becomes a fuel/air
bomb, which does damage both by the force of the explosion, and by the
huge amount of heat released by a large flame-front.
One of the big hazards of storing fuel-gas indoors is that effect #2
can happen as a result of any leak from the storage cylinder. It
doesn't take an external fire or flame. A leaking valve, or a big
cylinder which falls over and damages or breaks off the valve
assembly, can convert a building into a time-bomb in very short order.
Any spark then sets off the explosion... flipping a wall light
switch on or off can be all it takes. Demolished buildings are
the result.
Youtube has plenty of clips - for example see
https://youtu.be/BUJPvoped2M?si=PYlIBIbX6tFn6xY3
On 12/15/23 18:24, Don Y wrote:
I was at the hardware store, today. A guy walked in with a<snip>
propane tank from a BBQ grill. The staff went ballistic!
   "You have to take that around the back!"
   "I already did. No one answered the door."
   "You can't carry it through the store. It's *illegal*..."
which, immediately got me wondering if that's a truth
or just an exaggerated belief (illegal == not tolerated by store
policy)
Of course, such tanks (empty and full-ready-for-resale) are
always stored outside due to convenience and safety. So, it
*may* be true that local ordinances prevent them from being *in*
the store, regardless of duration.
More info....
Virginian Fire code:
6109.15 LP-Gas Cylinder Exchange for Resale
In addition to other applicable requirements of this chapter, facilities operating LP-gas cylinder exchange stations that are accessible to the public shall comply with the following requirements.
   Cylinders shall be secured in a lockable, ventilated metal cabinet or other approved enclosure.
   Cylinders shall be accessible only by authorized personnel or by use of an
automated exchange system in accordance with Section 6109.15.1.
   A sign shall be posted on the entry door of the business operating the
cylinder exchange stating "DO NOT BRING LP-GAS CYLINDERS INTO THE BUILDING" or
similar approved wording.
   An emergency contact information sign shall be posted within 10 feet (3048
mm) of the cylinder storage cabinet. The content, lettering, size, color and location of the required sign shall be as required by the fire code official.
There is a difference.
If the container bursts, the gas is not mixed with sufficient oxygen to burn very fast or explosively (not as big as it could be).
On the other hand, a
bottle leaking can produce a mixture of gas and oxygen that is indeed explosive.
My father, who worked on a refinery, said that the huge empty fuel tanks were more dangerous than the full ones. The former had a mixture of fuel and air, they could explode.
On 12/15/23 18:24, Don Y wrote:
I was at the hardware store, today. A guy walked in with a<snip>
propane tank from a BBQ grill. The staff went ballistic!
"You have to take that around the back!"
"I already did. No one answered the door."
"You can't carry it through the store. It's *illegal*..."
which, immediately got me wondering if that's a truth
or just an exaggerated belief (illegal == not tolerated by store
policy)
Of course, such tanks (empty and full-ready-for-resale) are
always stored outside due to convenience and safety. So, it
*may* be true that local ordinances prevent them from being *in*
the store, regardless of duration.
More info....
Virginian Fire code:
6109.15 LP-Gas Cylinder Exchange for Resale
In addition to other applicable requirements of this chapter, facilities >operating LP-gas cylinder exchange stations that are accessible to the
public shall comply with the following requirements.
Cylinders shall be secured in a lockable, ventilated metal cabinet
or other approved enclosure.
Cylinders shall be accessible only by authorized personnel or by
use of an automated exchange system in accordance with Section 6109.15.1.
A sign shall be posted on the entry door of the business operating
the cylinder exchange stating "DO NOT BRING LP-GAS CYLINDERS INTO THE >BUILDING" or similar approved wording.
An emergency contact information sign shall be posted within 10
feet (3048 mm) of the cylinder storage cabinet. The content, lettering,
size, color and location of the required sign shall be as required by
the fire code official.
[...]
So, would you ASSUME this puts the onus on the "facility" to enforce
the requirement? I.e., the guy (in my example) who walked *through*
the hardware store, cussing the staff, carrying the tank to the back
of the store is not "at fault" (legally) for his "noncompliance".
Rather, if "someone of authority" happened to witness the event,
the "facility" would be cited for a violation for failing to
prevent the guy from walking through the store, as such?
I.e., an underage customer purchasing tobacco would result in
the proprietor being cited, not the "customer"...
If this is the case, then it poses an interesting dilemma for
the business owner: if you're a hardass with the customer who
is "misbehaving", you protect yourself legally -- at the risk
of pissing off the customer!
[In my example, the customer walked all the way to the rear of the store, encountered some other staff (besides the cashier who had told him he couldn't come in with the tank), "had words"...
Then, *that* staff member came back to the front of the store, tank
in HIS hand, to set the tank outside the front door. I.e., as if
the customer had never caused the violation.
Some time later -- after more "words" -- the customer left the
building... leaving his tank /where the employee had left it/.
The employee returned to pick up the tank and carry it around
to the back of the building -- as expected. (one has to wonder
if the employee would have taken a shortcut through the store
had the customer's actions not drawn so much attention to the event!)
On 12/16/2023 6:09 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is a difference.
If the container bursts, the gas is not mixed with sufficient oxygen
to burn very fast or explosively (not as big as it could be).
.. until someone opens a door, Monday morning, and the room fills with
fresh air just in time for the ignition spark from the light switch.
On the other hand, a bottle leaking can produce a mixture of gas and
oxygen that is indeed explosive.
My father, who worked on a refinery, said that the huge empty fuel
tanks were more dangerous than the full ones. The former had a mixture
of fuel and air, they could explode.
When a customer returns a tank for refill, you have no idea as to how much propane is present. If it developed a fault with the valve, it may never have had ANY gas consumed. Or, it may be bone dry. Or, empty *enough* that the customer didn't want to dick around with getting halfway through
a meal prep only to discover the tank was finally exhausted.
On 2023-12-16 22:29, Don Y wrote:
On 12/16/2023 6:09 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is a difference.
If the container bursts, the gas is not mixed with sufficient oxygen
to burn very fast or explosively (not as big as it could be).
.. until someone opens a door, Monday morning, and the room fills with
fresh air just in time for the ignition spark from the light switch.
Woshhhh! :-) Big flame or explosion.
You know that if the room is totally filled with gas, it can not
explode? :-)
There is a proportion of gas and air that explodes. If the proportion is
not met, it burns fast, or very very fast, but doesn't explode.
You may remember that a carburettor car with the motor soaked in
gasoline doesn't start. You had to let the car stand for half an hour
before trying again. Or push the accelerator to the end, not moving it,
then turn the key, so that it ventilated. After a while you could try to >start it for real.
On the other hand, a bottle leaking can produce a mixture of gas and
oxygen that is indeed explosive.
My father, who worked on a refinery, said that the huge empty fuel
tanks were more dangerous than the full ones. The former had a mixture
of fuel and air, they could explode.
When a customer returns a tank for refill, you have no idea as to how much >> propane is present. If it developed a fault with the valve, it may never
have had ANY gas consumed. Or, it may be bone dry. Or, empty *enough*
that the customer didn't want to dick around with getting halfway through
a meal prep only to discover the tank was finally exhausted.
Here, we have two bottles of butane on the kitchen, one connected, one
spare. If the bottle gives way in the middle of cooking, we just switch
the bottle, which here is a minute, 15" if you are on a hurry. We have a >quick disconnect/connect device :-)
Then we replace the empty bottle at a leisure.
Things get interesting with the shower hot water if the bottle gives way
just in mid shower, you are alone, and you have to get out to the garden
to switch the bottles with your hair full of shampoo in winter ;-)
Yeah, BTDT.
On 2023-12-16 22:29, Don Y wrote:
On 12/16/2023 6:09 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is a difference.
If the container bursts, the gas is not mixed with sufficient oxygen to burn
very fast or explosively (not as big as it could be).
.. until someone opens a door, Monday morning, and the room fills with
fresh air just in time for the ignition spark from the light switch.
Woshhhh! :-) Big flame or explosion.
You know that if the room is totally filled with gas, it can not explode? :-)
There is a proportion of gas and air that explodes. If the proportion is not met, it burns fast, or very very fast, but doesn't explode.
You may remember that a carburettor car with the motor soaked in gasoline doesn't start. You had to let the car stand for half an hour before trying again. Or push the accelerator to the end, not moving it, then turn the key, so
that it ventilated. After a while you could try to start it for real.
On the other hand, a bottle leaking can produce a mixture of gas and oxygen >>> that is indeed explosive.
My father, who worked on a refinery, said that the huge empty fuel tanks >>> were more dangerous than the full ones. The former had a mixture of fuel and
air, they could explode.
When a customer returns a tank for refill, you have no idea as to how much >> propane is present. If it developed a fault with the valve, it may never >> have had ANY gas consumed. Or, it may be bone dry. Or, empty *enough*
that the customer didn't want to dick around with getting halfway through
a meal prep only to discover the tank was finally exhausted.
Here, we have two bottles of butane on the kitchen, one connected, one spare. If the bottle gives way in the middle of cooking, we just switch the bottle, which here is a minute, 15" if you are on a hurry. We have a quick disconnect/connect device :-)
Then we replace the empty bottle at a leisure.
Things get interesting with the shower hot water if the bottle gives way just in mid shower, you are alone, and you have to get out to the garden to switch the bottles with your hair full of shampoo in winter ;-)
Yeah, BTDT.
On 2023-12-16, Don Y wrote:
[...]
So, would you ASSUME this puts the onus on the "facility" to enforce
the requirement? I.e., the guy (in my example) who walked *through*
the hardware store, cussing the staff, carrying the tank to the back
of the store is not "at fault" (legally) for his "noncompliance".
Rather, if "someone of authority" happened to witness the event,
the "facility" would be cited for a violation for failing to
prevent the guy from walking through the store, as such?
Depends on how the fire marshal feels that day; there do tend to be
different options they have in that regard.
I.e., an underage customer purchasing tobacco would result in
the proprietor being cited, not the "customer"...
Well, both. Different citations, though. ("Sale to a minor" and "Minor
in possession of...")
If this is the case, then it poses an interesting dilemma for
the business owner: if you're a hardass with the customer who
is "misbehaving", you protect yourself legally -- at the risk
of pissing off the customer!
Better to "lose" one moron semi-customer than the store.
[In my example, the customer walked all the way to the rear of the store,
encountered some other staff (besides the cashier who had told him he
couldn't come in with the tank), "had words"...
Then, *that* staff member came back to the front of the store, tank
in HIS hand, to set the tank outside the front door. I.e., as if
the customer had never caused the violation.
Tank has to get *out* of the store somehow; and if the "customer" is
being a petulant little brat about it, then it's most likely gonna be a
store employee getting it out ...
Some time later -- after more "words" -- the customer left the
building... leaving his tank /where the employee had left it/.
The employee returned to pick up the tank and carry it around
to the back of the building -- as expected. (one has to wonder
if the employee would have taken a shortcut through the store
had the customer's actions not drawn so much attention to the event!)
If it was the smaller places around here (True-Value affiliates), the employee would probably be fired on the spot (or at least we would've
been back when I was a kid working at one...)
On 12/15/2023 6:24 PM, Don Y wrote:
<snip>
[I recall, when getting forklift certified, asking the instructor
what to do in the event of a fire (cuz you are sitting ON the engine
and the fuel source is immediately behind your back). I expected
some PRACTICAL sort of advice -- like how to put it out, etc.
He ended up saying, "Get as far away as possible. Call the fire
department. AND TELL THEM YOU HAVE A PROPANE FORKLIFT FIRE. When
they arrive, they will likely park A BLOCK AWAY!"
I guess propane explosions are spectacular! ?]
The problem is that propane gas is heavier than air,
so it doesn't readily dissipate like natural gas would.
So, anyone know if this is a universal prohibition, a local
requirement or just "store policy"?
Dunno.
Ed
On 12/16/2023 8:39 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-12-16 22:29, Don Y wrote:
On 12/16/2023 6:09 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
There is a difference.
If the container bursts, the gas is not mixed with sufficient oxygen to burn
very fast or explosively (not as big as it could be).
.. until someone opens a door, Monday morning, and the room fills with
fresh air just in time for the ignition spark from the light switch.
Woshhhh! :-) Big flame or explosion.
You know that if the room is totally filled with gas, it can not explode? :-)
Yes -- but "adding air" to a room is a relatively common occurrence...
done without deliberate consideration!
There is a proportion of gas and air that explodes. If the proportion is not >> met, it burns fast, or very very fast, but doesn't explode.
You may remember that a carburettor car with the motor soaked in gasoline
doesn't start. You had to let the car stand for half an hour before trying >> again. Or push the accelerator to the end, not moving it, then turn the key, so
that it ventilated. After a while you could try to start it for real.
Yes. The idiots who'd pump the pedal endlessly thinking it would
*help* things...
I used to have a home-brewed "spark indicator" in the dash on one of
my cars on the premis that failure to start is either fuel or ignition... :>
On the other hand, a bottle leaking can produce a mixture of gas and oxygen
that is indeed explosive.
My father, who worked on a refinery, said that the huge empty fuel tanks >>>> were more dangerous than the full ones. The former had a mixture of fuel and
air, they could explode.
When a customer returns a tank for refill, you have no idea as to how much >>> propane is present. If it developed a fault with the valve, it may never >>> have had ANY gas consumed. Or, it may be bone dry. Or, empty *enough*
that the customer didn't want to dick around with getting halfway through >>> a meal prep only to discover the tank was finally exhausted.
Here, we have two bottles of butane on the kitchen, one connected, one spare.
If the bottle gives way in the middle of cooking, we just switch the bottle, >> which here is a minute, 15" if you are on a hurry. We have a quick
disconnect/connect device :-)
Then we replace the empty bottle at a leisure.
I suspect folks who use "propane grills" (outdoor cooking) likely only
have a single tank (they are large and seldom used... why keep *two*?)
Things get interesting with the shower hot water if the bottle gives way just
in mid shower, you are alone, and you have to get out to the garden to switch
the bottles with your hair full of shampoo in winter ;-)
Yeah, BTDT.
Growing up, we had oil-fired domestic hot water. The supply was quite limited.
And, subject to "dropouts" if someone flushed a toilet, started a load of >laundry, etc. It was common sense to ANNOUNCE your desire to take a shower >before putting yourself at the mercy of others' "activities".
Going off to school, we had a 5,000G hot water tank for the dorm. ENDLESS >supplies of hot water!
On 12/16/2023 8:39 PM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
On 2023-12-16 22:29, Don Y wrote:
On 12/16/2023 6:09 AM, Carlos E.R. wrote:
You may remember that a carburettor car with the motor soaked in
gasoline doesn't start. You had to let the car stand for half an hour
before trying again. Or push the accelerator to the end, not moving
it, then turn the key, so that it ventilated. After a while you could
try to start it for real.
Yes. The idiots who'd pump the pedal endlessly thinking it would
*help* things...
I used to have a home-brewed "spark indicator" in the dash on one of
my cars on the premis that failure to start is either fuel or
ignition... :>
On the other hand, a bottle leaking can produce a mixture of gas and
oxygen that is indeed explosive.
My father, who worked on a refinery, said that the huge empty fuel
tanks were more dangerous than the full ones. The former had a
mixture of fuel and air, they could explode.
When a customer returns a tank for refill, you have no idea as to how
much
propane is present. If it developed a fault with the valve, it may
never
have had ANY gas consumed. Or, it may be bone dry. Or, empty *enough* >>> that the customer didn't want to dick around with getting halfway
through
a meal prep only to discover the tank was finally exhausted.
Here, we have two bottles of butane on the kitchen, one connected, one
spare. If the bottle gives way in the middle of cooking, we just
switch the bottle, which here is a minute, 15" if you are on a hurry.
We have a quick disconnect/connect device :-)
Then we replace the empty bottle at a leisure.
I suspect folks who use "propane grills" (outdoor cooking) likely only
have a single tank (they are large and seldom used... why keep *two*?)
Things get interesting with the shower hot water if the bottle gives
way just in mid shower, you are alone, and you have to get out to the
garden to switch the bottles with your hair full of shampoo in winter ;-)
Yeah, BTDT.
Growing up, we had oil-fired domestic hot water. The supply was quite limited.
And, subject to "dropouts" if someone flushed a toilet, started a load of laundry, etc. It was common sense to ANNOUNCE your desire to take a shower before putting yourself at the mercy of others' "activities".
Going off to school, we had a 5,000G hot water tank for the dorm. ENDLESS supplies of hot water!
I used to have a home-brewed "spark indicator" in the dash on one of
my cars on the premis that failure to start is either fuel or ignition... :>
What was that? :-?
Then we replace the empty bottle at a leisure.
I suspect folks who use "propane grills" (outdoor cooking) likely only
have a single tank (they are large and seldom used... why keep *two*?)
Quite possibly.
Growing up, we had oil-fired domestic hot water. The supply was quite limited.
And, subject to "dropouts" if someone flushed a toilet, started a load of
laundry, etc. It was common sense to ANNOUNCE your desire to take a shower >> before putting yourself at the mercy of others' "activities".
Oh, yes!
Some modern water flash heaters have automatic regulation. They increase or decrease the gas output automatically to try keep the water temperature constant.
I don't have that in this place. I did a mistake when I purchased the last one
when replacing the previous (broken) one. It is not only the problem of someone
using the water at the same time, but that the temp varies a lot if you try to
use less water.
Going off to school, we had a 5,000G hot water tank for the dorm. ENDLESS >> supplies of hot water!
:-)
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