Oookay...seen only limited uptake in the US. A study appendix describes reconductoring deployments in five countries and in Texas."
"Large-scale reconductoring of existing transmission lines could cost-effectively double transmission capacity within existing rights-of-way, a study says. Renewable energy projects near reconductored transmission lines could more easily interconnect.
The study says that previous work has established that it is cost-effective and time-efficient to expand transmission capacity by reconductoring existing lines, and there is robust global deployment of advanced conductors, yet the technology has
DoE estimates that 54,500 GW-miles of additional within-region transmission capacity are needed for a clean grid.
What are watt-miles and within region?
And what does double capacity mean? Same transmission efficiency or loss?
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/11/24/reconductor-existing-transmission-to-unlock-renewables-says-uc-berkeley-study/
On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:40:54 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:technology has seen “only limited uptake” in the US. A study appendix describes reconductoring deployments in five countries and in Texas."
Oookay...
"Large-scale reconductoring of existing transmission lines could cost-effectively double transmission capacity within existing rights-of-way, a study says. Renewable energy projects near reconductored transmission lines could more easily interconnect.
The study says that previous work “has established that it is cost-effective and time-efficient” to expand transmission capacity by reconductoring existing lines, and there is “robust global deployment” of advanced conductors, yet the
DoE estimates that 54,500 GW-miles of additional within-region transmission capacity are needed for a clean grid.
What are watt-miles and within region?
And what does double capacity mean? Same transmission efficiency or loss?
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/11/24/reconductor-existing-transmission-to-unlock-renewables-says-uc-berkeley-study/Stupid idea.
When using 50/60 Hz AC, the skin effect makes conductor diameters
larger than about 30 mm uneconomical.
To increase HV line capacity, use 2 to 4 separate wires/phase situated
about 50 cm from each other. Keeping the individual wire diameter
below 20 mm, the metallic cross section can be fully utilized without
much skin effect losses. Using a bit thinner wires also helps to
dissipate he copper/aluminum losses to the environment. Thus you can
run higher peak powers with higher current densities [A/mm2]. With renewables running high peak powers and extra losses can be justified.
Of course converting a dual 3 phase AC cir quit to three bipolar HVDC circuits would allow thicker wires without fear for skin effect
losses.
On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:40:54 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:technology has seen “only limited uptake” in the US. A study appendix describes reconductoring deployments in five countries and in Texas."
Oookay...
"Large-scale reconductoring of existing transmission lines could cost-effectively double transmission capacity within existing rights-of-way, a study says. Renewable energy projects near reconductored transmission lines could more easily interconnect.
The study says that previous work “has established that it is cost-effective and time-efficient” to expand transmission capacity by reconductoring existing lines, and there is “robust global deployment” of advanced conductors, yet the
DoE estimates that 54,500 GW-miles of additional within-region transmission capacity are needed for a clean grid.
What are watt-miles and within region?
And what does double capacity mean? Same transmission efficiency or loss?
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/11/24/reconductor-existing-transmission-to-unlock-renewables-says-uc-berkeley-study/Stupid idea.
When using 50/60 Hz AC, the skin effect makes conductor diameters
larger than about 30 mm uneconomical.
To increase HV line capacity, use 2 to 4 separate wires/phase situated
about 50 cm from each other. Keeping the individual wire diameter
below 20 mm, the metallic cross section can be fully utilized without
much skin effect losses. Using a bit thinner wires also helps to
dissipate he copper/aluminum losses to the environment. Thus you can
run higher peak powers with higher current densities [A/mm2]. With renewables running high peak powers and extra losses can be justified.
Of course converting a dual 3 phase AC cir quit to three bipolar HVDC circuits would allow thicker wires without fear for skin effect
losses.
On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:40:54 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
Oookay...
"Large-scale reconductoring of existing transmission lines could
cost-effectively double transmission capacity within existing
rights-of-way, a study says. Renewable energy projects near
reconductored transmission lines could more easily interconnect.
The study says that previous work has established that it is
cost-effective and time-efficient to expand transmission capacity by
reconductoring existing lines, and there is robust global deployment
of advanced conductors, yet the technology has seen only limited
uptake in the US. A study appendix describes reconductoring deployments
in five countries and in Texas."
DoE estimates that 54,500 GW-miles of additional within-region
transmission capacity are needed for a clean grid.
What are watt-miles and within region?
And what does double capacity mean? Same transmission efficiency or loss?
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/11/24/reconductor-existing-transmission-to-unlock-renewables-says-uc-berkeley-study/
Stupid idea.
When using 50/60 Hz AC, the skin effect makes conductor diameters
larger than about 30 mm uneconomical.
To increase HV line capacity, use 2 to 4 separate wires/phase situated
about 50 cm from each other. Keeping the individual wire diameter
below 20 mm, the metallic cross section can be fully utilized without
much skin effect losses. Using a bit thinner wires also helps to
dissipate he copper/aluminum losses to the environment. Thus you can
run higher peak powers with higher current densities [A/mm2]. With
renewables running high peak powers and extra losses can be justified.
Of course converting a dual 3 phase AC cir quit to three bipolar HVDC circuits would allow thicker wires without fear for skin effect
losses.
Cables can go much larger than 30mm with techniques that minimize skin-effect:
For example:
https://ilmukabel.com/milliken-conductor/
kw
<upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:40:54 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
Oookay...
"Large-scale reconductoring of existing transmission lines could
cost-effectively double transmission capacity within existing
rights-of-way, a study says. Renewable energy projects near
reconductored transmission lines could more easily interconnect.
The study says that previous work has established that it is
cost-effective and time-efficient to expand transmission capacity by
reconductoring existing lines, and there is robust global
deployment of advanced conductors, yet the technology has seen
only limited uptake in the US. A study appendix describes
reconductoring deployments in five countries and in Texas."
DoE estimates that 54,500 GW-miles of additional within-region
transmission capacity are needed for a clean grid.
What are watt-miles and within region?
And what does double capacity mean? Same transmission efficiency or
loss?
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/11/24/reconductor-existing-transmissio
n-to-unlock-renewables-says-uc-berkeley-study/
Stupid idea.
When using 50/60 Hz AC, the skin effect makes conductor diameters
larger than about 30 mm uneconomical.
To increase HV line capacity, use 2 to 4 separate wires/phase situated
about 50 cm from each other. Keeping the individual wire diameter
below 20 mm, the metallic cross section can be fully utilized without
much skin effect losses. Using a bit thinner wires also helps to
dissipate he copper/aluminum losses to the environment. Thus you can
run higher peak powers with higher current densities [A/mm2]. With
renewables running high peak powers and extra losses can be justified.
Of course converting a dual 3 phase AC cir quit to three bipolar HVDC
circuits would allow thicker wires without fear for skin effect losses.
Tower loading is the key constraint—dead load, wind, and ice.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
<upsidedown@downunder.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:40:54 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
Oookay...
"Large-scale reconductoring of existing transmission lines could
cost-effectively double transmission capacity within existing
rights-of-way, a study says. Renewable energy projects near
reconductored transmission lines could more easily interconnect.
The study says that previous work has established that it is
cost-effective and time-efficient to expand transmission capacity by >>>> reconductoring existing lines, and there is robust global
deployment of advanced conductors, yet the technology has seen
only limited uptake in the US. A study appendix describes
reconductoring deployments in five countries and in Texas."
DoE estimates that 54,500 GW-miles of additional within-region
transmission capacity are needed for a clean grid.
What are watt-miles and within region?
And what does double capacity mean? Same transmission efficiency or
loss?
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/11/24/reconductor-existing-transmissio >>>> n-to-unlock-renewables-says-uc-berkeley-study/
Stupid idea.
When using 50/60 Hz AC, the skin effect makes conductor diameters
larger than about 30 mm uneconomical.
To increase HV line capacity, use 2 to 4 separate wires/phase situated
about 50 cm from each other. Keeping the individual wire diameter
below 20 mm, the metallic cross section can be fully utilized without
much skin effect losses. Using a bit thinner wires also helps to
dissipate he copper/aluminum losses to the environment. Thus you can
run higher peak powers with higher current densities [A/mm2]. With
renewables running high peak powers and extra losses can be justified.
Of course converting a dual 3 phase AC cir quit to three bipolar HVDC
circuits would allow thicker wires without fear for skin effect losses.
Tower loading is the key constraint—dead load, wind, and ice.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
Use HVDC and increase the voltage to the peak value of the original AC. >Converters at both ends would cost less than rewiring the towers.
On Saturday, 25 November 2023 at 15:00:33 UTC-8, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:interconnect.
On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:40:54 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
Oookay...
"Large-scale reconductoring of existing transmission lines could cost-effectively double transmission capacity within existing rights-of-way, a study says. Renewable energy projects near reconductored transmission lines could more easily
technology has seen “only limited uptake” in the US. A study appendix describes reconductoring deployments in five countries and in Texas."The study says that previous work “has established that it is cost-effective and time-efficient” to expand transmission capacity by reconductoring existing lines, and there is “robust global deployment” of advanced conductors, yet the
DoE estimates that 54,500 GW-miles of additional within-region transmission capacity are needed for a clean grid.
What are watt-miles and within region?
And what does double capacity mean? Same transmission efficiency or loss?
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/11/24/reconductor-existing-transmission-to-unlock-renewables-says-uc-berkeley-study/Stupid idea.
When using 50/60 Hz AC, the skin effect makes conductor diameters
larger than about 30 mm uneconomical.
To increase HV line capacity, use 2 to 4 separate wires/phase situated about 50 cm from each other. Keeping the individual wire diameter
below 20 mm, the metallic cross section can be fully utilized without
much skin effect losses. Using a bit thinner wires also helps to
dissipate he copper/aluminum losses to the environment. Thus you can
run higher peak powers with higher current densities [A/mm2]. With renewables running high peak powers and extra losses can be justified.
Of course converting a dual 3 phase AC cir quit to three bipolar HVDC circuits would allow thicker wires without fear for skin effectCables can go much larger than 30mm with techniques that minimize skin-effect:
losses.
For example:
https://ilmukabel.com/milliken-conductor/
kw
<upsid...@downunder.com> wrote:
On Sat, 25 Nov 2023 09:40:54 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
Oookay...
"Large-scale reconductoring of existing transmission lines could
cost-effectively double transmission capacity within existing
rights-of-way, a study says. Renewable energy projects near
reconductored transmission lines could more easily interconnect.
The study says that previous work “has established that it is
cost-effective and time-efficient” to expand transmission capacity by >> reconductoring existing lines, and there is “robust global deployment”
of advanced conductors, yet the technology has seen “only limited
uptake” in the US. A study appendix describes reconductoring deployments
in five countries and in Texas."
DoE estimates that 54,500 GW-miles of additional within-region
transmission capacity are needed for a clean grid.
What are watt-miles and within region?
And what does double capacity mean? Same transmission efficiency or loss? >>
https://www.pv-magazine.com/2023/11/24/reconductor-existing-transmission-to-unlock-renewables-says-uc-berkeley-study/
Stupid idea.
When using 50/60 Hz AC, the skin effect makes conductor diameters
larger than about 30 mm uneconomical.
To increase HV line capacity, use 2 to 4 separate wires/phase situated about 50 cm from each other. Keeping the individual wire diameter
below 20 mm, the metallic cross section can be fully utilized without
much skin effect losses. Using a bit thinner wires also helps to
dissipate he copper/aluminum losses to the environment. Thus you can
run higher peak powers with higher current densities [A/mm2]. With renewables running high peak powers and extra losses can be justified.
Of course converting a dual 3 phase AC cir quit to three bipolar HVDC circuits would allow thicker wires without fear for skin effect
losses.
Tower loading is the key constraint—dead load, wind, and ice.
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
--
Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
Kevin White <kevin...@whitedigs.com> wrote:
Cables can go much larger than 30mm with techniques that minimize skin-effect:
For example:
https://ilmukabel.com/milliken-conductor/
kwThis is called Litz wire, available since 1912:
It's a variation on the same theme but Litz wire is not used for power transmission.
https://patents.google.com/patent/DE4036169A1/en
In Litz wire each conductor is insulated and woven to periodically be
either in the outer or inner part of the cable.
With Milliken wire a number of segments are created that are then formed
into a cylindrical cable. This is much better for manufacture than Litz.
There is an explanation of its operation in the Art of Electronics.
kw
Kevin White <kevin.> wrote:
It's a variation on the same theme but Litz wire is not used for power transmission.
https://patents.google.com/patent/DE4036169A1/en
In Litz wire each conductor is insulated and woven to periodically be either in the outer or inner part of the cable.
With Milliken wire a number of segments are created that are then formed into a cylindrical cable. This is much better for manufacture than Litz.
There is an explanation of its operation in the Art of Electronics.
kwThis is used to reduce eddy current losses. It doesn't say by how much. Is it 10% or 90%?
Going to HVDC would reduce eddy current losses by 100%, leaving only ohmic losses. The DC voltage could be raised to the peak voltage of the original AC, and the current could be reduced proportionally, reducing ohmic losses.
Converters at each end would probably be cheaper than manufacturing a specialty cable.
The patent has expired, leading one to suspect the inventor never found a market.
On Sunday, 26 November 2023 at 13:21:09 UTC-8, Mike Monett VE3BTI wrote:
Kevin White <kevin.> wrote:
It's a variation on the same theme but Litz wire is not used for powerThis is used to reduce eddy current losses. It doesn't say by how much. Is it
transmission.
https://patents.google.com/patent/DE4036169A1/en
In Litz wire each conductor is insulated and woven to periodically be
either in the outer or inner part of the cable.
With Milliken wire a number of segments are created that are then formed >>> into a cylindrical cable. This is much better for manufacture than Litz. >>>
There is an explanation of its operation in the Art of Electronics.
kw
10% or 90%?
Going to HVDC would reduce eddy current losses by 100%, leaving only ohmic >> losses. The DC voltage could be raised to the peak voltage of the original >> AC, and the current could be reduced proportionally, reducing ohmic losses. >>
For some links HVDC is a useful approach, especially if there are frequency or phase differences
between the ends of the link that need to be considered. It is expensive though and although
the skin-resistance and other AC losses are avoided there are losses in the conversion equipment.
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