On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are
going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are
going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are
going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
On 13/11/2023 16:44, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste aA "space race" is a bit of national willy waving. It certainly beats
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are
going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
holding another world war which is one of the other alternatives...
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.Space is pretty big but the cavalier launching of small satellites will sooner or later result in a catastrophic failure whereby many useful satellite orbits are peppered with debris for a few decades.
The other way it could happen is if someone uses an anti-satellite
weapon for real. The explosion will create many small fast fragments
still able to cause serious damage but too small and numerous to track.
Then each subsequent collision adds more debris to the most populous orbits.
https://www.space.com/how-many-satellites-fit-safely-earth-orbit
Johnathon McD is the goto man for comments on satellites and launches.
--
Martin Brown
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are
going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and
nukes.
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are
going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and
nukes.
A "space race" is a bit of national willy waving. It certainly beats holding another world war which is one of the other alternatives...
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 12:31:49?PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are
going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
They're missing the historical context of the western model which is industrial sector expertise bootstraps the big scientific programs, not the other way around.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and
nukes.
He would have nothing else to show for his government without it.
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Subject: Re: moon race
From: Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: moon race
From: John Smiht <utube.jocjo@xoxy.net>
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On 13/11/2023 16:44, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are
going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
A "space race" is a bit of national willy waving. It certainly beats
holding another world war which is one of the other alternatives...
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
Space is pretty big but the cavalier launching of small satellites will >sooner or later result in a catastrophic failure whereby many useful >satellite orbits are peppered with debris for a few decades.
The other way it could happen is if someone uses an anti-satellite
weapon for real. The explosion will create many small fast fragments
still able to cause serious damage but too small and numerous to track.
Then each subsequent collision adds more debris to the most populous orbits.
https://www.space.com/how-many-satellites-fit-safely-earth-orbit
Johnathon McD is the goto man for comments on satellites and launches.
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs ><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are
going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that
waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and
nukes.
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 10:09:37 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 12:31:49?PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iUOne argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
They're missing the historical context of the western model which is industrial sector expertise bootstraps the big scientific programs, not the other way around.
Yes, science usually follows invention.
On a sunny day (Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:31:08 -0800) it happened John Larkin ><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <u5n4li11gpbgskqobfr6vpm2hl2jmc2s5n@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs >><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are
going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that
waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and
nukes.
US is the poorest country on the planet,
its debt is the biggest
It sells weapons to its own people and others, payed for by that debt and their tax payers.
The people are poor, homelessness is extreme, people killing each other for automatic weans,
they designed things like COVID, many of their products suck
and are expensive,
On 13/11/2023 22:58, john larkin wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 10:09:37 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 12:31:49?PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iUOne argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>>> technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
They're missing the historical context of the western model which is industrial sector expertise bootstraps the big scientific programs, not the other way around.
Not true. Science discovers things and industry eventually exploits
them. It is sometimes the case that to solve a scientific problem new
kit is developed by manufacturers but most of the time academic
researchers budgets are so low that they make do with what they can get >cheaply plus a lot of time and graduate students working for peanuts.
Yes, science usually follows invention.
Nonsense. Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent >usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades
before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
Concrete example Rutherford worked on radioactivity because he was
advised by his supervisor that there was no real future in Hertzian
waves as they would never amount to anything very much. In both
instances it was about 4 decades before they really took off big time.
He is much less well known for his work on radio waves.
Same with the invention of the laser which initially required an insane >configuration of very expensive perfect ruby crystal with a custom made
flash gun wrapped around it. What earthly use would that ever be?
Now we are surrounded by kit that relies on laser light to function.
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:46:24 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 13/11/2023 22:58, john larkin wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 10:09:37 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 12:31:49?PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iUOne argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>>>> technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
They're missing the historical context of the western model which is industrial sector expertise bootstraps the big scientific programs, not the other way around.
Not true. Science discovers things and industry eventually exploits
them. It is sometimes the case that to solve a scientific problem new
kit is developed by manufacturers but most of the time academic
researchers budgets are so low that they make do with what they can get >>cheaply plus a lot of time and graduate students working for peanuts.
Yes, science usually follows invention.
Nonsense. Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent >>usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades >>before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
People built structures and water systems before there was any
corresponding science. Basic concepts of sanitation and medical
hygiene preceded knowledge of bactria and viruses. We had eyeglasses
and telescopes before there was any theory of optics. Franklin and Ohm
and Edison and DeForest invented electronics before anyone understood
the physics. Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse. >Chemistry and metallurgy happened before there were chemists and >metallurgists. And there are many more examples where tinkerers
discover and use causalities and scientists follow up with theory.
It's hard to think of a case where science preceded invention,
especially pre-1900. Or even now. The laser is a notable exception.
E=mc^2 was vastly before its time, but fission would have been
discovered anyhow. Stimulated emission was brilliant, even though
Einstein thought the laser was impossible. That's a fascinating case
where a scientist invented a concept, the inventor and the science >establishment declared that it was useless, and an experimenter proved
them wrong.
Einstein went into the refrigerator businness, but it was a flop.
Concrete example Rutherford worked on radioactivity because he was
advised by his supervisor that there was no real future in Hertzian
waves as they would never amount to anything very much. In both
instances it was about 4 decades before they really took off big time.
He is much less well known for his work on radio waves.
Radioactivity was observed and used before there was any corresponding >science.
Same with the invention of the laser which initially required an insane >>configuration of very expensive perfect ruby crystal with a custom made >>flash gun wrapped around it. What earthly use would that ever be?
Now we are surrounded by kit that relies on laser light to function.
Townes invented the maser first, and was almost de-funded because
everyone from Einstein down knew that themodynamics forbids net gain
from stimulated emission.
On 13/11/2023 22:58, john larkin wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 10:09:37 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
Not true. Science discovers things and industry eventually exploitsOn Monday, November 13, 2023 at 12:31:49?PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iUOne argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>> technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
They're missing the historical context of the western model which is industrial sector expertise bootstraps the big scientific programs, not the other way around.
them. It is sometimes the case that to solve a scientific problem new
kit is developed by manufacturers but most of the time academic
researchers budgets are so low that they make do with what they can get cheaply plus a lot of time and graduate students working for peanuts.
Yes, science usually follows invention.Nonsense. Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
Concrete example Rutherford worked on radioactivity because he was
advised by his supervisor that there was no real future in Hertzian
waves as they would never amount to anything very much. In both
instances it was about 4 decades before they really took off big time.
He is much less well known for his work on radio waves.
Same with the invention of the laser which initially required an insane configuration of very expensive perfect ruby crystal with a custom made flash gun wrapped around it. What earthly use would that ever be?
Now we are surrounded by kit that relies on laser light to function.
--
Martin Brown
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Subject: Re: moon race
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From: john larkin <jl@650pot.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: moon race
Date: Tue, 14 Nov 2023 10:57:03 -0800
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On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:46:24 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 13/11/2023 22:58, john larkin wrote:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 10:09:37 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 12:31:49?PM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iUOne argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>>> technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
They're missing the historical context of the western model which is industrial sector expertise bootstraps the big scientific programs, not the other way around.
Not true. Science discovers things and industry eventually exploits
them. It is sometimes the case that to solve a scientific problem new
kit is developed by manufacturers but most of the time academic >researchers budgets are so low that they make do with what they can get >cheaply plus a lot of time and graduate students working for peanuts.
Yes, science usually follows invention.
Nonsense. Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent >usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades >before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
People built structures and water systems before there was any
corresponding science. Basic concepts of sanitation and medical
hygiene preceded knowledge of bactria and viruses. We had eyeglasses
and telescopes before there was any theory of optics. Franklin and Ohm
and Edison and DeForest invented electronics before anyone understood
the physics. Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse. Chemistry and metallurgy happened before there were chemists and metallurgists. And there are many more examples where tinkerers
discover and use causalities and scientists follow up with theory.
It's hard to think of a case where science preceded invention, especially pre-1900. Or even now. The laser is a notable exception.
E=mc^2 was vastly before its time, but fission would have been discovered anyhow.
Stimulated emission was brilliant, even though Einstein thought the laser was impossible. That's a fascinating case where a scientist invented a concept, the inventor and the science establishment declared that it was useless, and an experimenterproved them wrong.
Einstein went into the refrigerator businness, but it was a flop.
took off big time. He is much less well known for his work on radio waves.Concrete example Rutherford worked on radioactivity because he was advised by his supervisor that there was no real future in Hertzian waves as they would never amount to anything very much. In both instances it was about 4 decades before they really
Radioactivity was observed and used before there was any corresponding science.
Same with the invention of the laser which initially required an insane configuration of very expensive perfect ruby crystal with a custom made flash gun wrapped around it. What earthly use would that ever be?
Now we are surrounded by kit that relies on laser light to function. Townes invented the maser first, and was almost de-funded because everyone from Einstein down knew that themodynamics forbids net gain from stimulated emission.
Nonsense. Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
Concrete example Rutherford worked on radioactivity because he was advised by his supervisor that there was no real future in Hertzian waves as they would never amount to anything very much. In both instances it was about 4 decades before they really took off big time. He is much less well known for his work on radio waves.
Same with the invention of the laser which initially required an insane configuration of very expensive perfect ruby crystal with a custom made flash gun wrapped around it. What earthly use would that ever be?
Now we are surrounded by kit that relies on laser light to function.
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 05:53:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:31:08 -0800) it happened John Larkin >><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <u5n4li11gpbgskqobfr6vpm2hl2jmc2s5n@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs >>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote:
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that
waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>>technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and >>>nukes.
US is the poorest country on the planet,
That's silly.
its debt is the biggest
As a fraction of GDP, it's not. Look it up.
It sells weapons to its own people and others, payed for by that debt and their tax payers.
The people are poor, homelessness is extreme, people killing each other for automatic weans,
they designed things like COVID, many of their products suck
and are expensive,
If you don't like american technology, don't use it.
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On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Nov 2023 07:34:38 -0800) it happened John Larkin ><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <nh47li5varc5qv835u57jt3bgr0fgu7l7s@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 05:53:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:31:08 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <u5n4li11gpbgskqobfr6vpm2hl2jmc2s5n@4ax.com>: >>>
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs >>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that
waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>>>technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and >>>>nukes.
US is the poorest country on the planet,
That's silly.
its debt is the biggest
As a fraction of GDP, it's not. Look it up.
It sells weapons to its own people and others, payed for by that debt and their tax payers.
The people are poor, homelessness is extreme, people killing each other for automatic weans,
they designed things like COVID, many of their products suck
and are expensive,
If you don't like american technology, don't use it.
Right
Chinese stuff is cheaper and works 99% of the time.
US men die 6 years before women, as life expectancy gap widens:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/11/231114215650.htm
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:46:24 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent
usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades >before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
People built structures and water systems before there was any
corresponding science.
Basic concepts of sanitation and medical
hygiene preceded knowledge of bacteria and viruses.
We had eyeglasses
and telescopes before there was any theory of optics.
Franklin and Ohm
and Edison and DeForest invented electronics before anyone understood
the physics.
Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse.
It's hard to think of a case where science preceded invention, ...
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Subject: Re: moon race
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From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: moon race
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 07:42:39 -0800
Organization: Highland Tech
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Nonsense; thermodynamics was what the steam tables were all about,
the whole point of science is to have a good grasp of reality even when
the apparatus isn't yet built. You cannot call engines an inspiration of knowledge
and deny that knowledge inspires invention.
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 7:29:10?AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:46:24 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent
usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades
before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
People built structures and water systems before there was any
corresponding science.
That's not clear. The "corresponding science" may just not have been >written down; language arts and writing are recent compared to
structures and water systems as we know them from archaeology.
Basic concepts of sanitation and medical
hygiene preceded knowledge of bacteria and viruses.
That just means we've got a few steps farther in our understanding
those things, not that 'science' wasn't present in the early concepts.
We had eyeglasses
and telescopes before there was any theory of optics.
Huh? "any theory" cannot have been absent for producing telescopes, though >the optical design of those early years may not have been the rich field of knowledge
that optics later became.
Franklin and Ohm
and Edison and DeForest invented electronics before anyone understood
the physics.
They were early researchers, in a sense; obviously "the physics" was what Franklin
and Ohm were researching. They didn't precede it, they led it.
Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse.
Nonsense; thermodynamics was what the steam tables were all about,
the whole point of science is to have a good grasp of reality even when
the apparatus isn't yet built. You cannot call engines an inspiration of knowledge
and deny that knowledge inspires invention.
It's hard to think of a case where science preceded invention, ...
They both arise from confusion, which is apparently where John Larkin is dwelling.
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From: john larkin <jl@650pot.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: moon race
Date: Wed, 15 Nov 2023 12:06:12 -0800
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On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 06:08:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Nov 2023 07:34:38 -0800) it happened John Larkin >><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <nh47li5varc5qv835u57jt3bgr0fgu7l7s@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 05:53:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:31:08 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <u5n4li11gpbgskqobfr6vpm2hl2jmc2s5n@4ax.com>: >>>>
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs >>>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by
that
waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>>>>technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and >>>>>nukes.
US is the poorest country on the planet,
That's silly.
its debt is the biggest
As a fraction of GDP, it's not. Look it up.
It sells weapons to its own people and others, payed for by that debt and their tax payers.
The people are poor, homelessness is extreme, people killing each other for automatic weans,
they designed things like COVID, many of their products suck
and are expensive,
If you don't like american technology, don't use it.
Right
Chinese stuff is cheaper and works 99% of the time.
So a board that uses 300 Chinese parts will work 5% of the time.
US men die 6 years before women, as life expectancy gap widens:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/11/231114215650.htm
Surfing and skydiving and mountain climbing and suntanning with babes
on the beach are dangerous.
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 06:08:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Nov 2023 07:34:38 -0800) it happened John Larkin ><j...@997PotHill.com> wrote in <nh47li5varc5qv835...@4ax.com>:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 05:53:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:31:08 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>><j...@997PotHill.com> wrote in <u5n4li11gpbgskqob...@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs >>>><bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a
trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by that
waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>>>technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and >>>>nukes.
US is the poorest country on the planet,
That's silly.
its debt is the biggest
As a fraction of GDP, it's not. Look it up.
It sells weapons to its own people and others, payed for by that debt and their tax payers.
The people are poor, homelessness is extreme, people killing each other for automatic weans,
they designed things like COVID, many of their products suck
and are expensive,
If you don't like american technology, don't use it.
RightSo a board that uses 300 Chinese parts will work 5% of the time.
Chinese stuff is cheaper and works 99% of the time.
US men die 6 years before women, as life expectancy gap widens:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/11/231114215650.htmSurfing and skydiving and mountain climbing and suntanning with babes on the beach are dangerous.
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 7:29:10 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrot=
e:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:46:24 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent
usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades=
before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
People built structures and water systems before there was any
corresponding science.
That's not clear. The "corresponding science" may just not have been >written down; language arts and writing are recent compared to
structures and water systems as we know them from archaeology.
Basic concepts of sanitation and medical
hygiene preceded knowledge of bacteria and viruses.
That just means we've got a few steps farther in our understanding
those things, not that 'science' wasn't present in the early concepts.
We had eyeglasses
and telescopes before there was any theory of optics.
Huh? "any theory" cannot have been absent for producing telescopes, thoug= >h
the optical design of those early years may not have been the rich field of=
knowledge
that optics later became.
Franklin and Ohm
and Edison and DeForest invented electronics before anyone understood
the physics.
They were early researchers, in a sense; obviously "the physics" was what F= >ranklin
and Ohm were researching. They didn't precede it, they led it.
Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse.
Nonsense; thermodynamics was what the steam tables were all about,
the whole point of science is to have a good grasp of reality even when
the apparatus isn't yet built. You cannot call engines an inspiration of = >knowledge
and deny that knowledge inspires invention.
It's hard to think of a case where science preceded invention, ...
They both arise from confusion, which is apparently where John Larkin is dw= >elling.
On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:01:06 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
<dd5a55aa-050a-4664...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 7:29:10 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrot=
e:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:46:24 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent
usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades=
before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
People built structures and water systems before there was any
corresponding science.
That's not clear. The "corresponding science" may just not have been >written down; language arts and writing are recent compared to
structures and water systems as we know them from archaeology.
Basic concepts of sanitation and medical
hygiene preceded knowledge of bacteria and viruses.
That just means we've got a few steps farther in our understanding
those things, not that 'science' wasn't present in the early concepts.
We had eyeglasses
and telescopes before there was any theory of optics.
Huh? "any theory" cannot have been absent for producing telescopes, thoug= >h
the optical design of those early years may not have been the rich field of=
knowledge
that optics later became.
Franklin and Ohm
and Edison and DeForest invented electronics before anyone understood
the physics.
They were early researchers, in a sense; obviously "the physics" was what F= >ranklin
and Ohm were researching. They didn't precede it, they led it.
Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse.
Nonsense; thermodynamics was what the steam tables were all about,
the whole point of science is to have a good grasp of reality even when
the apparatus isn't yet built. You cannot call engines an inspiration of = >knowledge
and deny that knowledge inspires invention.
It's hard to think of a case where science preceded invention, ...
They both arise from confusion, which is apparently where John Larkin is dw=
elling.
You sound like some other script that used to run here
John is right
All starts with 'observation'
when the guy observed the kettle lid pushing up
he decided to make it turn a wheel.
When some guy used electrickety on a frog leg...
Gun powder ..
Then models were made, mamamatical equations were made to APPROXIMATE
what was observed, so you could sort of scale things or predict things.
The models were modified over time as more was found out about what was really happening.
This is all still going on.
Unfortunately many (like Albert E. parrots) take those mathematical equations
for reality, and they cannot see... Becomes their religion so to speak.
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:01:06 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 7:29:10?AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse.
Nonsense; thermodynamics was what the steam tables were all about,
Newcomen had steam tables?
the whole point of science is to have a good grasp of reality even when
the apparatus isn't yet built. You cannot call engines an inspiration of knowledge
and deny that knowledge inspires invention.
It's hard to think of a case where science preceded invention, ...
They both arise from confusion, which is apparently where John Larkin is dwelling.
You seem to be saying that midievil cathedral builders and Newcomen
and Edison and DeForest were scientists. OK, that's your definition.
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Subject: Re: moon race
From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
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From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: moon race
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 11:16:37 +0000
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From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: moon race
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 06:18:51 GMT
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On 15/11/2023 20:06, john larkin wrote:
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:01:06 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 7:29:10?AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse.
Nonsense; thermodynamics was what the steam tables were all about,
Newcomen had steam tables?
In the early days it was purely empirical and based on indicator
diagrams where the work done could be estimated. The jig for doing that
to optimise a steam engine was a very closely guarded trade secret for
some considerable time (decades). So closely guarded that there were
multiple independent inventors of the rick and litigation about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indicator_diagram
Clapeyron (and Bernoulli) eventually formalised the theory.
On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:01:06 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd ><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in ><dd5a55aa-050a-4664-a19b-56bd2149f477n@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 7:29:10 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrot=
e:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:46:24 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent
usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades=
before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
People built structures and water systems before there was any
corresponding science.
That's not clear. The "corresponding science" may just not have been >>written down; language arts and writing are recent compared to
structures and water systems as we know them from archaeology.
Basic concepts of sanitation and medical
hygiene preceded knowledge of bacteria and viruses.
That just means we've got a few steps farther in our understanding
those things, not that 'science' wasn't present in the early concepts.
We had eyeglasses
and telescopes before there was any theory of optics.
Huh? "any theory" cannot have been absent for producing telescopes, thoug= >>h
the optical design of those early years may not have been the rich field of= >> knowledge
that optics later became.
Franklin and Ohm
and Edison and DeForest invented electronics before anyone understood
the physics.
They were early researchers, in a sense; obviously "the physics" was what F= >>ranklin
and Ohm were researching. They didn't precede it, they led it.
Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse.
Nonsense; thermodynamics was what the steam tables were all about,
the whole point of science is to have a good grasp of reality even when >>the apparatus isn't yet built. You cannot call engines an inspiration of = >>knowledge
and deny that knowledge inspires invention.
It's hard to think of a case where science preceded invention, ...
They both arise from confusion, which is apparently where John Larkin is dw= >>elling.
You sound like some other script that used to run here
John is right
All starts with 'observation'
when the guy observed the kettle lid pushing up
he decided to make it turn a wheel.
When some guy used electrickety on a frog leg...
Gun powder ..
Then models were made, mamamatical equations were made to APPROXIMATE
what was observed, so you could sort of scale things or predict things.
The models were modified over time as more was found out about what was >really happening.
This is all still going on.
Unfortunately many (like Albert E. parrots) take those mamamatical equations >for reality, and they cannot see... Becomes their religion so to speak.
On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Nov 2023 07:42:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin ><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <0hp9li5qvuutioq03li9d7c78licq4phl8@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 06:08:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Nov 2023 07:34:38 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <nh47li5varc5qv835u57jt3bgr0fgu7l7s@4ax.com>: >>>
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 05:53:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:31:08 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <u5n4li11gpbgskqobfr6vpm2hl2jmc2s5n@4ax.com>: >>>>>
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs >>>>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a >>>>>>>> trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space.
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by
that
waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>>>>>technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and >>>>>>nukes.
US is the poorest country on the planet,
That's silly.
its debt is the biggest
As a fraction of GDP, it's not. Look it up.
It sells weapons to its own people and others, payed for by that debt and their tax payers.
The people are poor, homelessness is extreme, people killing each other for automatic weans,
they designed things like COVID, many of their products suck
and are expensive,
If you don't like american technology, don't use it.
Right
Chinese stuff is cheaper and works 99% of the time.
So a board that uses 300 Chinese parts will work 5% of the time.
You twist the facts
I buy complete Chinese stuff, satellite receiver, DVB-T reeiver,
several modules like GPS, motion sensors, temperature and air pressure sensors,
power supply modules, radios, multimeters, wallwarts, LNBs,the list is much longer.
All work
Of all the separate semiconductors I have ordered only one time I got a buch that did not
do what that chip number implied, got a refund.
Even my drone is made in China, OLED modules too, flashlighs, UV light, SDcard reader.. just looking around...
You could not make any of it for that money.
TV remotes...
LED srips (not sure if that is from China but I think so), hundreds of LEDs.. >for your Christmas lighting..
US men die 6 years before women, as life expectancy gap widens:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/11/231114215650.htm
Surfing and skydiving and mountain climbing and suntanning with babes
on the beach are dangerous.
Yep
And serving uncle Joe
High lung cancer rates in naval veterans linked to asbestos:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/11/231114143823.htm
Path: not-for-mail4ax.com> <uivflg$16958$1@dont-email.me> <u937lipvrvsfuhue2lr5h48558spk4o3v5@4ax.com> <dd5a55aa-050a-4664-a19b-56bd2149f477n@googlegroups.com> <qk8ali56addu9bna1iv8hcscb4nou24pii@4ax.com> <uj4tmr$284bt$1@dont-email.me>
NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 15:45:44 +0000
From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: moon race
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 07:45:16 -0800
Organization: Highland Tech
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On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 11:16:37 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 15/11/2023 20:06, john larkin wrote:
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:01:06 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 7:29:10?AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse.
Nonsense; thermodynamics was what the steam tables were all about,
Newcomen had steam tables?
In the early days it was purely empirical and based on indicator
diagrams where the work done could be estimated. The jig for doing that
to optimise a steam engine was a very closely guarded trade secret for
some considerable time (decades). So closely guarded that there were
multiple independent inventors of the rick and litigation about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indicator_diagram
Clapeyron (and Bernoulli) eventually formalised the theory.
The indicator diagram came along about 80 years after the Newcomen
engine. Another case of science trailing invention.
Science is shockingly conventional, un-imaginative, and resistant to
new ideas. Or at least the scientific community is.
"Science progresses one funeral at a time."
Path: not-for-mail4ax.com> <uivflg$16958$1@dont-email.me> <u937lipvrvsfuhue2lr5h48558spk4o3v5@4ax.com> <dd5a55aa-050a-4664-a19b-56bd2149f477n@googlegroups.com> <qk8ali56addu9bna1iv8hcscb4nou24pii@4ax.com> <uj4tmr$284bt$1@dont-email.me> <pvdclipa3j7gjb13cjhuebhk2sg9d16atk@
From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: moon race
Date: Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:26:25 +0000
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
Lines: 75
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On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 11:16:37 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 15/11/2023 20:06, john larkin wrote:
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:01:06 -0800 (PST), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
wrote:
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 7:29:10?AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrote:
Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse.
Nonsense; thermodynamics was what the steam tables were all about,
Newcomen had steam tables?
In the early days it was purely empirical and based on indicator
diagrams where the work done could be estimated. The jig for doing that
to optimise a steam engine was a very closely guarded trade secret for >some considerable time (decades). So closely guarded that there were >multiple independent inventors of the rick and litigation about it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indicator_diagram
Clapeyron (and Bernoulli) eventually formalised the theory.The indicator diagram came along about 80 years after the Newcomen
engine. Another case of science trailing invention.
Science is shockingly conventional, un-imaginative, and resistant to
new ideas. Or at least the scientific community is.
"Science progresses one funeral at a time."
On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 06:04:52 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Nov 2023 07:42:39 -0800) it happened John Larkin >><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <0hp9li5qvuutioq03li9d7c78licq4phl8@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 15 Nov 2023 06:08:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Nov 2023 07:34:38 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <nh47li5varc5qv835u57jt3bgr0fgu7l7s@4ax.com>: >>>>
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 05:53:34 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>>>wrote:
On a sunny day (Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:31:08 -0800) it happened John Larkin >>>>>><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <u5n4li11gpbgskqobfr6vpm2hl2jmc2s5n@4ax.com>:
On Mon, 13 Nov 2023 09:15:48 -0800 (PST), Fred Bloggs >>>>>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
On Monday, November 13, 2023 at 11:45:05?AM UTC-5, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>>>>> https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/concerns-growing-over-the-new-moon-space-race-between-china-and-the-us/ar-AA1jQ6iU
It's 21st century circus for the fools...both of those places are in dire need of freeing up the geniuses distracted by
This makes no sense to me. Who cares if China or India waste a >>>>>>>>> trillion dollars "establishing norms" on the moon? How many kids are >>>>>>>>> going hungry to bring back more boring moon dirt?
And "space" is pretty big. Nobody is going to dominate space. >>>>>>>>
that
waste to work on more pressing down to Earth problems, like feeding themselves.
One argument is that spending resources on NASA equivalents bootstraps >>>>>>>technology in a poor country. I think they have that backwards.
It's tragic how much North Korea spends on missiles and cannons and >>>>>>>nukes.
US is the poorest country on the planet,
That's silly.
its debt is the biggest
As a fraction of GDP, it's not. Look it up.
It sells weapons to its own people and others, payed for by that debt and their tax payers.
The people are poor, homelessness is extreme, people killing each other for automatic weans,
they designed things like COVID, many of their products suck
and are expensive,
If you don't like american technology, don't use it.
Right
Chinese stuff is cheaper and works 99% of the time.
So a board that uses 300 Chinese parts will work 5% of the time.
You twist the facts
I buy complete Chinese stuff, satellite receiver, DVB-T reeiver,
several modules like GPS, motion sensors, temperature and air pressure sensors,
power supply modules, radios, multimeters, wallwarts, LNBs,the list is much longer.
All work
Of all the separate semiconductors I have ordered only one time I got a buch that did not
do what that chip number implied, got a refund.
Even my drone is made in China, OLED modules too, flashlighs, UV light, SDcard reader.. just looking around...
You could not make any of it for that money.
TV remotes...
LED srips (not sure if that is from China but I think so), hundreds of LEDs.. >>for your Christmas lighting..
I suppose they test their stuff before they ship it, which is why
about 80% of the Chinese electronics works right when it arrives.
But I don't buy assembled electronics, I design electronics from
parts. This is a design newsgroup.
US men die 6 years before women, as life expectancy gap widens:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/11/231114215650.htm
Surfing and skydiving and mountain climbing and suntanning with babes
on the beach are dangerous.
Yep
And serving uncle Joe
High lung cancer rates in naval veterans linked to asbestos:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/11/231114143823.htm
Asbestos wasn't unique to the USA. Nor were cigarettes, except that
americans could afford lots of cigs.
Hardly anyone around here smokes tobacco any more.
Science has a fairly reasonable requirement that any new theory should >explain *all* the observed facts so far *and* make some testable
predictions that can be used to validate and verify the new theory.
Plenty of theoreticians work on stuff that is potentially decades away
from being experimentally verifiable with current technology. I was >astonished when they got the gravitational wave detectors to work.
Detecting dark matter is still proving very hard.
On Thu, 16 Nov 2023 06:18:51 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Nov 2023 09:01:06 -0800 (PST)) it happened whit3rd ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
<dd5a55aa-050a-4664...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, November 14, 2023 at 7:29:10 AM UTC-8, John Larkin wrot= >>e:
On Tue, 14 Nov 2023 09:46:24 +0000, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
Science invents and discovers new things that have no apparent
usefulness at the time of their discovery. It is usually a few decades= >>
before industry even gets remotely interested in such breakthroughs.
People built structures and water systems before there was any
corresponding science.
That's not clear. The "corresponding science" may just not have been >>written down; language arts and writing are recent compared to >>structures and water systems as we know them from archaeology.
Basic concepts of sanitation and medical
hygiene preceded knowledge of bacteria and viruses.
That just means we've got a few steps farther in our understanding
those things, not that 'science' wasn't present in the early concepts.
We had eyeglasses
and telescopes before there was any theory of optics.
Huh? "any theory" cannot have been absent for producing telescopes, thoug= >>h
the optical design of those early years may not have been the rich field of=
knowledge
that optics later became.
Franklin and Ohm
and Edison and DeForest invented electronics before anyone understood >>> the physics.
They were early researchers, in a sense; obviously "the physics" was what F=
ranklin
and Ohm were researching. They didn't precede it, they led it.
Steam engines inspired thermodynamics, not the reverse.
Nonsense; thermodynamics was what the steam tables were all about,
the whole point of science is to have a good grasp of reality even when >>the apparatus isn't yet built. You cannot call engines an inspiration of = >>knowledge
and deny that knowledge inspires invention.
It's hard to think of a case where science preceded invention, ...
They both arise from confusion, which is apparently where John Larkin is dw=
elling.
You sound like some other script that used to run here
John is right
All starts with 'observation'
when the guy observed the kettle lid pushing up
he decided to make it turn a wheel.
When some guy used electrickety on a frog leg...
Gun powder ..
Then models were made, mamamatical equations were made to APPROXIMATE
what was observed, so you could sort of scale things or predict things. >The models were modified over time as more was found out about what was >really happening.
This is all still going on.
Unfortunately many (like Albert E. parrots) take those mamamatical equations
for reality, and they cannot see... Becomes their religion so to speak.
Yes, observations and inventions are usually made by amateur experimenters, and scientists are inspired (actually surprised) and follow up with theory to make things better. Not always, but usually.
The airplane is a good example.
There are a few cases where scientists really invented something based on theory. The maser is one example, and the bipolar transistor was an accident discovered while investigating solid-state physics with a practical goal. Radar, maybe, but it hadhints from accidental observations.
Science education should include courses in thinking crazy.
On a sunny day (Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:26:25 +0000) it happened Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <uj5fro$2b9np$1@dont-email.me>:
Science has a fairly reasonable requirement that any new theory should
explain *all* the observed facts so far *and* make some testable
predictions that can be used to validate and verify the new theory.
Plenty of theoreticians work on stuff that is potentially decades away >>from being experimentally verifiable with current technology. I was
astonished when they got the gravitational wave detectors to work.
I was not, been watching the tides come and go.
There is no difference apart from Einstein hysteria.
Le Sage theory predicts the same.
Detecting dark matter is still proving very hard.
If it exists at all!
On 17/11/2023 06:17, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:26:25 +0000) it happened Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <uj5fro$2b9np$1@dont-email.me>:
Science has a fairly reasonable requirement that any new theory should
explain *all* the observed facts so far *and* make some testable
predictions that can be used to validate and verify the new theory.
Plenty of theoreticians work on stuff that is potentially decades away >>>from being experimentally verifiable with current technology. I was
astonished when they got the gravitational wave detectors to work.
I was not, been watching the tides come and go.
There is no difference apart from Einstein hysteria.
Le Sage theory predicts the same.
Do you have any idea how tiny the length changes they are detecting
actually are? Around a ten thousandth of the diameter of a proton!
On a sunny day (Fri, 17 Nov 2023 09:48:26 +0000) it happened Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <uj7ctg$2oe8i$2...@dont-email.me>:
On 17/11/2023 06:17, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Thu, 16 Nov 2023 16:26:25 +0000) it happened Martin Brown >> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <uj5fro$2b9np$1...@dont-email.me>: >>
Science has a fairly reasonable requirement that any new theory should >>> explain *all* the observed facts so far *and* make some testable
predictions that can be used to validate and verify the new theory.
Plenty of theoreticians work on stuff that is potentially decades away >>>from being experimentally verifiable with current technology. I was
astonished when they got the gravitational wave detectors to work.
I was not, been watching the tides come and go.
There is no difference apart from Einstein hysteria.
Le Sage theory predicts the same.
Do you have any idea how tiny the length changes they are detecting >actually are? Around a ten thousandth of the diameter of a proton!
Sure, the length changes of planet earth over that distance for gravity changes created that far away are small.
But the claim 'this proves that gravitational waves exist as predicted by Albert E.' is false.
They just look for a higher part of the length changes spectrum, the slow part caused by the moon is much bigger.
And the whole Albert E. math is like in those other steam engine examples: just mathematical babble, an approximation, and worthless without a MECHANISM, and there at least Le Sage makes predictions.
Albert E.'s is like Ohms law.
We need the electrons to make sense of electricity.
Ohms law breaks down in the Fleming tube. current in a vacuum, and one way only at that!
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fleming_valve
Once we can understand Le Sage type particles a _rectifier_ (so a machine that only lets those Le Sage particles through in one way) then that will give us space propulsion that will put everything else like burning fuels and explosions in the shade.
As graffiti seems to travel at the speed of light (was measured?) chances are big that EM radiation is transferred by the same Le Sage particle, possibly a state of it.
That than also explains the interaction between graffiti and light.
But I am just an alien, you human beings need to work on this.
Spectral widening is also easily explained with Le Sage.
This posting was spelled by spell checkers.
I am still curious about Podkletnow's experiment, and real data from https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Podkletnov
and what US DOD really found out with the late Ning Li experiments: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ning_Li_(physicist)
Could be a dead end road. but then again, superconductors do funny things with things travelling through them.
Experiments are essential to find a way for human beings to spread across the universe.
But then again, would more of us making wars everywhere help?
Seems we are just a transient chemical reaction, must be everywhere although in different forms adapted to their local environments.
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Subject: Re: moon race
From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
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Subject: Re: moon race
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Industry is often naive in assessing applications. Didn't DEC think
the market for "computers" was (initially) in the single digits?
On Wednesday, 15 November 2023 at 03:30:23 UTC, Don Y wrote:
Industry is often naive in assessing applications. Didn't DEC think
the market for "computers" was (initially) in the single digits?
in fairness, at the time that was the market size.
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