• What they found could help save the world

    From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 29 07:27:11 2023
    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons of hydrogen."

    'White hydrogen deposits have been found throughout the world, including in the US, eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, Oman, as well as France and Mali.'

    Fossil fuel prospecting has been abandoning these finds for 100 years.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/29/climate/white-hydrogen-fossil-fuels-climate/index.html

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  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com on Sun Oct 29 14:38:05 2023
    On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons? of hydrogen."

    'White hydrogen deposits have been found throughout the world, including in the US, eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, Oman, as well as France and Mali.'

    Fossil fuel prospecting has been abandoning these finds for 100 years.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/29/climate/white-hydrogen-fossil-fuels-climate/index.html

    The high value, 250 Mtons, amounts to about 30 Kg for each person on
    the planet. That won't save the world.

    The 6 Mt value is even less impressive. Grams.

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  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 29 15:07:29 2023
    søndag den 29. oktober 2023 kl. 15.27.16 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:
    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons of hydrogen."


    the worlds oil consumption is ~4.4billion tons per year......

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  • From a a@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Oct 30 01:50:15 2023
    XPost: free.spam

    The idiot John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

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    Subject: Re: What they found could help save the world
    Date: Sun, 29 Oct 2023 14:38:05 -0700
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  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Sun Oct 29 23:52:13 2023
    On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 8:38:35 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons? of hydrogen."

    'White hydrogen deposits have been found throughout the world, including in the US, eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, Oman, as well as France and Mali.'

    Fossil fuel prospecting has been abandoning these finds for 100 years.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/29/climate/white-hydrogen-fossil-fuels-climate/index.html
    The high value, 250 Mtons, amounts to about 30 Kg for each person on
    the planet. That won't save the world.

    The 6 Mt value is even less impressive. Grams.

    The point was that they seem to be lot of other similar deposits waiting to be found. Others have been found in the past, but nobody want to tap the hydrogen and ship it anywhere it could have been sold. Now that we have transcontinental gas pipelines
    and can liquify hydrogen and ship liquid hydrogen around new deposits will be more interesting. John wants to be rude about a single hydrogen reservoir, and ignore the message about it being likely to be one of many.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Oct 30 06:29:59 2023
    On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 5:38:35 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons? of hydrogen."

    'White hydrogen deposits have been found throughout the world, including in the US, eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, Oman, as well as France and Mali.'

    Fossil fuel prospecting has been abandoning these finds for 100 years.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/29/climate/white-hydrogen-fossil-fuels-climate/index.html
    The high value, 250 Mtons, amounts to about 30 Kg for each person on
    the planet. That won't save the world.

    The 6 Mt value is even less impressive. Grams.

    Why stop there. Divide the estimated tonnage by the number of atoms in the galaxy. That would make about as much sense.

    Hydrogen is a candidate for just about any industrial process requiring heat. Heat usually means CO2 emissions. The steel industry is already planning for conversion to hydrogen. A pilot plant is in operation in Hamburg. The expense of hydrogen is a
    major impediment to widescale adoption, but as green, blue, and now white hydrogen lowers the cost, it will be more readily adopted.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/green-steel-produced-first-time-180978550/

    https://worldsteel.org/wp-content/uploads/Fact-sheet-Hydrogen-H2-based-ironmaking.pdf

    That will be a big one.

    Cement is another big one:

    https://commodityinside.com/hydrogen-application-in-the-cement-industry-a-promising-pathway-to-decarbonization/

    According to IEA, LNG gas pipelines in the process of decommissioning are being considered for reuse for hydrogen transport.They'll almost certainly need to replace the pipe itself, but just having the right-of-way gets them 90% of the way there.

    According IEA there are many others. Electricity alone can't do everything. Hydrogen is used as part of the core industrial process.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Mon Oct 30 07:10:10 2023
    On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 12:30:05 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 5:38:35 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons? of hydrogen."

    'White hydrogen deposits have been found throughout the world, including in the US, eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, Oman, as well as France and Mali.'

    Fossil fuel prospecting has been abandoning these finds for 100 years.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/29/climate/white-hydrogen-fossil-fuels-climate/index.html
    The high value, 250 Mtons, amounts to about 30 Kg for each person on
    the planet. That won't save the world.

    The 6 Mt value is even less impressive. Grams.

    Why stop there. Divide the estimated tonnage by the number of atoms in the galaxy. That would make about as much sense.

    John Larkin takes his style from the climate change denial propaganda he reads. It is aimed at half-wits, and the rhetorical tricks are designed to sound impressive. Getting the logic right doesn't matter for the target audience.

    Hydrogen is a candidate for just about any industrial process requiring heat. Heat usually means CO2 emissions. The steel industry is already planning for conversion to hydrogen. A pilot plant is in operation in Hamburg. The expense of hydrogen is a
    major impediment to widescale adoption, but as green, blue, and now white hydrogen lowers the cost, it will be more readily adopted.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/green-steel-produced-first-time-180978550/

    https://worldsteel.org/wp-content/uploads/Fact-sheet-Hydrogen-H2-based-ironmaking.pdf

    That will be a big one.

    Cement is another big one:

    https://commodityinside.com/hydrogen-application-in-the-cement-industry-a-promising-pathway-to-decarbonization/

    According to IEA, LNG gas pipelines in the process of decommissioning are being considered for reuse for hydrogen transport.They'll almost certainly need to replace the pipe itself, but just having the right-of-way gets them 90% of the way there.

    According IEA there are many others. Electricity alone can't do everything. Hydrogen is used as part of the core industrial process.

    Actually, electricity alone probably can do pretty much everything, but the steel industry will take a while to get to the point where you will electrolyse iron ore to get out metallic iron as you do when you electrolyse alumina to get out aluminium
    metal. Reducing iron ore with hydrogen gas could probably be done in a minimally modified blast furnace.

    Cement is going to be trickier. You start off with carbonate rock and have to drive off the CO2. Turning the CO2 into methanol or urea would earn you brownie points, but it would complicate life and cost money.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com on Mon Oct 30 08:48:53 2023
    On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 06:29:59 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 5:38:35?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons? of hydrogen."

    'White hydrogen deposits have been found throughout the world, including in the US, eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, Oman, as well as France and Mali.'

    Fossil fuel prospecting has been abandoning these finds for 100 years.

    https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/29/climate/white-hydrogen-fossil-fuels-climate/index.html
    The high value, 250 Mtons, amounts to about 30 Kg for each person on
    the planet. That won't save the world.

    The 6 Mt value is even less impressive. Grams.

    Why stop there. Divide the estimated tonnage by the number of atoms in the galaxy. That would make about as much sense.

    Hydrogen is a candidate for just about any industrial process requiring heat. Heat usually means CO2 emissions. The steel industry is already planning for conversion to hydrogen. A pilot plant is in operation in Hamburg. The expense of hydrogen is a
    major impediment to widescale adoption, but as green, blue, and now white hydrogen lowers the cost, it will be more readily adopted.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/green-steel-produced-first-time-180978550/

    https://worldsteel.org/wp-content/uploads/Fact-sheet-Hydrogen-H2-based-ironmaking.pdf

    That will be a big one.

    Cement is another big one:

    https://commodityinside.com/hydrogen-application-in-the-cement-industry-a-promising-pathway-to-decarbonization/

    According to IEA, LNG gas pipelines in the process of decommissioning are being considered for reuse for hydrogen transport.They'll almost certainly need to replace the pipe itself, but just having the right-of-way gets them 90% of the way there.

    According IEA there are many others. Electricity alone can't do everything. Hydrogen is used as part of the core industrial process.

    What would make sense is to determine if there is enough free
    underground hydrogen around the world to make it worth drilling for
    it.

    The cited range of 6 to 250 Mt is absurd.

    The breakthrough-press-release energy situation is full of
    quantitative nonsense. Please don't keep posting off-topic nonsense
    here.

    Post something about electronics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Oct 30 09:46:59 2023
    On Monday, October 30, 2023 at 11:49:25 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 06:29:59 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 5:38:35?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons? of hydrogen."

    'White hydrogen deposits have been found throughout the world, including in the US, eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, Oman, as well as France and Mali.'

    Fossil fuel prospecting has been abandoning these finds for 100 years. >> >
    https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/29/climate/white-hydrogen-fossil-fuels-climate/index.html
    The high value, 250 Mtons, amounts to about 30 Kg for each person on
    the planet. That won't save the world.

    The 6 Mt value is even less impressive. Grams.

    Why stop there. Divide the estimated tonnage by the number of atoms in the galaxy. That would make about as much sense.

    Hydrogen is a candidate for just about any industrial process requiring heat. Heat usually means CO2 emissions. The steel industry is already planning for conversion to hydrogen. A pilot plant is in operation in Hamburg. The expense of hydrogen is a
    major impediment to widescale adoption, but as green, blue, and now white hydrogen lowers the cost, it will be more readily adopted.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/green-steel-produced-first-time-180978550/

    https://worldsteel.org/wp-content/uploads/Fact-sheet-Hydrogen-H2-based-ironmaking.pdf

    That will be a big one.

    Cement is another big one:

    https://commodityinside.com/hydrogen-application-in-the-cement-industry-a-promising-pathway-to-decarbonization/

    According to IEA, LNG gas pipelines in the process of decommissioning are being considered for reuse for hydrogen transport.They'll almost certainly need to replace the pipe itself, but just having the right-of-way gets them 90% of the way there.

    According IEA there are many others. Electricity alone can't do everything. Hydrogen is used as part of the core industrial process.
    What would make sense is to determine if there is enough free
    underground hydrogen around the world to make it worth drilling for
    it.

    The cited range of 6 to 250 Mt is absurd.

    That's the *estimate* of the one small drill site in northeastern France, not global.


    The breakthrough-press-release energy situation is full of
    quantitative nonsense. Please don't keep posting off-topic nonsense
    here.

    Post something about electronics.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From upsidedown@downunder.com@21:1/5 to langwadt@fonz.dk on Tue Oct 31 01:01:16 2023
    On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 15:07:29 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

    søndag den 29. oktober 2023 kl. 15.27.16 UTC+1 skrev Fred Bloggs:
    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons? of hydrogen."


    the worlds oil consumption is ~4.4billion tons per year......

    That would require about 1000 trips each year with 500 000 ton super
    tankers. While each tanker can do multiple trips each year, a few
    hundred tankers would be needed.

    4.4 Gt oil has a volume of less than 6 km3.

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  • From upsidedown@downunder.com@21:1/5 to bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com on Tue Oct 31 00:45:35 2023
    On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons? of hydrogen."

    Burn 6 Mt of hydrogen with 48 Mt atmospheric oxygen and you get 54 Mt
    = 0.054 km3 of water, which would fill a 2.3 km x 2.3 km 10 m deep
    lake.

    Burn 250 Mt of hydrogen with 2000 Mt oxygen and you get 2250 Mt = 2.25
    Gt = 2.25 km3 of water, which would fill a 15 km x 15 km lake 10 m
    deep.

    Is this a small or a large number ?

    Compare these figures to the output of an oil well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Oct 30 19:57:23 2023
    On Tuesday, October 31, 2023 at 2:49:25 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 30 Oct 2023 06:29:59 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Sunday, October 29, 2023 at 5:38:35?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 29 Oct 2023 07:27:11 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    " It indicated the presence of a large reservoir of hydrogen beneath. They ran calculations and estimated the deposit could contain between 6 million and 250 million metric tons? of hydrogen."

    'White hydrogen deposits have been found throughout the world, including in the US, eastern Europe, Russia, Australia, Oman, as well as France and Mali.'

    Fossil fuel prospecting has been abandoning these finds for 100 years. >> >
    https://www.cnn.com/2023/10/29/climate/white-hydrogen-fossil-fuels-climate/index.html
    The high value, 250 Mtons, amounts to about 30 Kg for each person on
    the planet. That won't save the world.

    The 6 Mt value is even less impressive. Grams.

    Why stop there. Divide the estimated tonnage by the number of atoms in the galaxy. That would make about as much sense.

    Hydrogen is a candidate for just about any industrial process requiring heat. Heat usually means CO2 emissions. The steel industry is already planning for conversion to hydrogen. A pilot plant is in operation in Hamburg. The expense of hydrogen is a
    major impediment to widescale adoption, but as green, blue, and now white hydrogen lowers the cost, it will be more readily adopted.

    https://www.smithsonianmag.com/smart-news/green-steel-produced-first-time-180978550/

    https://worldsteel.org/wp-content/uploads/Fact-sheet-Hydrogen-H2-based-ironmaking.pdf

    That will be a big one.

    Cement is another big one:

    https://commodityinside.com/hydrogen-application-in-the-cement-industry-a-promising-pathway-to-decarbonization/

    According to IEA, LNG gas pipelines in the process of decommissioning are being considered for reuse for hydrogen transport.They'll almost certainly need to replace the pipe itself, but just having the right-of-way gets them 90% of the way there.

    According IEA there are many others. Electricity alone can't do everything. Hydrogen is used as part of the core industrial process.

    What would make sense is to determine if there is enough free underground hydrogen around the world to make it worth drilling for it.

    The oil companies have been determining whether there's enough underground oil for it to be worth drilling for for more than a century now.
    They still don't know exactly where to drill

    The cited range of 6 to 250 Mt is absurd.

    It's merely uncertain. Getting more certain involved doing a lot more expensive drilling.

    The breakthrough-press-release energy situation is full of quantitative nonsense. Please don't keep posting off-topic nonsense here.

    We could ask the same of you. Your enthusiasm for posting off-topic climate change denial nonsense doesn't make you more popular.

    Post something about electronics.

    And better electronics than the lame stuff that John Larkin likes to boast about.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From a a@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Tue Oct 31 03:42:57 2023
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    The idiot Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

    --
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  • From a a@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Tue Oct 31 03:43:04 2023
    XPost: free.spam

    The arsehole Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

    --
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