• Re: Japan Becomes 1st Country Ever To Fire Electromagnetic Railgun From

    From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu Oct 19 09:38:31 2023
    On Thursday, October 19, 2023 at 12:18:56 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA
    wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices would be based on how quickly incoming missiles
    approach.

    https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/
    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at
    hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1
    ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    By 'interceptor' I took it to mean missile, mostly ballistic but with in-flight adjustment for near sure hit.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com on Thu Oct 19 09:18:34 2023
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA
    wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices would be based on how quickly incoming missiles
    approach.

    https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/

    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at
    hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1
    ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 12:29:38 2023
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:18:34 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs ><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA
    wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices would be based on how quickly incoming missiles
    approach.
    <https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/>

    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at
    hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1
    ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    The big railguns intended to destroy a tank or ship or ballistic
    missile at great range very much had these problems, but it isn't
    obvious that a much smaller railgun cannot work: "the weapon can
    shoot 320g (or 0.7lb) 40mm steel rounds".

    The advantage of a railgun is then rate of fire (hard to saturate) and
    far smaller round volume (which isn't itself dangerous), so the
    magazine can contain far more rounds before needing replenishment,
    greatly improving the logistics.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 09:57:36 2023
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:29:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:18:34 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs >><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA
    wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices would be based on how quickly incoming missiles
    approach.
    <https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/>

    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at >>hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1
    ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    The big railguns intended to destroy a tank or ship or ballistic
    missile at great range very much had these problems, but it isn't
    obvious that a much smaller railgun cannot work: "the weapon can
    shoot 320g (or 0.7lb) 40mm steel rounds".

    Rihjt, great range requires terminal guidance, which is hard to do out
    of a rail gun.

    A guided missile can aim at the target and deliver gigajoules of
    explosive energy.



    The advantage of a railgun is then rate of fire (hard to saturate) and
    far smaller round volume (which isn't itself dangerous), so the
    magazine can contain far more rounds before needing replenishment,
    greatly improving the logistics.

    Joe Gwinn

    A good machine gun can fire many rounds per second.

    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/07/16/fastest-firing-machine-guns-in-the-world/

    The rail guns overheat and destroy their own barrels rapidly. And need
    a gigantic power supply to fire very often.

    It's like the difference between gasoline and batteries: orders of
    magnitude different energy density.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 15:21:21 2023
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:57:36 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:29:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:18:34 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs >>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what
    ATLA wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices would be based on how quickly incoming missiles
    approach.
    <https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/>

    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at >>>hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1 >>>ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    The big railguns intended to destroy a tank or ship or ballistic
    missile at great range very much had these problems, but it isn't
    obvious that a much smaller railgun cannot work: "the weapon can
    shoot 320g (or 0.7lb) 40mm steel rounds".

    Right, great range requires terminal guidance, which is hard to do out
    of a rail gun.

    A guided missile can aim at the target and deliver gigajoules of
    explosive energy.

    Yes.


    The advantage of a railgun is then rate of fire (hard to saturate) and
    far smaller round volume (which isn't itself dangerous), so the
    magazine can contain far more rounds before needing replenishment,
    greatly improving the logistics.


    A good machine gun can fire many rounds per second.

    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/07/16/fastest-firing-machine-guns-in-the-world/

    The rail guns overheat and destroy their own barrels rapidly. And need
    a gigantic power supply to fire very often.

    It's like the difference between gasoline and batteries: orders of
    magnitude different energy density.

    The difference is that it's hard for a gun to make bullets fly faster
    than the speed of sound in the hot gases propelling the shell down the
    barrel.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From john larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Oct 19 13:21:44 2023
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:21:21 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:57:36 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:29:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:18:34 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >>>wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs >>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what
    ATLA wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices would be based on how quickly incoming missiles
    approach.
    <https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/>

    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at >>>>hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1 >>>>ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    The big railguns intended to destroy a tank or ship or ballistic
    missile at great range very much had these problems, but it isn't
    obvious that a much smaller railgun cannot work: "the weapon can
    shoot 320g (or 0.7lb) 40mm steel rounds".

    Right, great range requires terminal guidance, which is hard to do out
    of a rail gun.

    A guided missile can aim at the target and deliver gigajoules of
    explosive energy.

    Yes.


    The advantage of a railgun is then rate of fire (hard to saturate) and >>>far smaller round volume (which isn't itself dangerous), so the
    magazine can contain far more rounds before needing replenishment, >>>greatly improving the logistics.


    A good machine gun can fire many rounds per second.
    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/07/16/fastest-firing-machine-guns-in-the-world/

    The rail guns overheat and destroy their own barrels rapidly. And need
    a gigantic power supply to fire very often.

    It's like the difference between gasoline and batteries: orders of >>magnitude different energy density.

    The difference is that it's hard for a gun to make bullets fly faster
    than the speed of sound in the hot gases propelling the shell down the >barrel.

    Joe Gwinn

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.220_Swift

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Oct 19 22:19:47 2023
    john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:21:21 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:57:36 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:29:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:18:34 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA >>>>>> railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), >>>>>> of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s >>>>>> (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying
    speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves >>>>>> by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices >>>>>> would be based on how quickly incoming missiles approach.

    <https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/>

    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at >>>>> hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1 >>>>> ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    The big railguns intended to destroy a tank or ship or ballistic
    missile at great range very much had these problems, but it isn't
    obvious that a much smaller railgun cannot work: "the weapon can
    shoot 320g (or 0.7lb) 40mm steel rounds".

    Right, great range requires terminal guidance, which is hard to do out
    of a rail gun.

    A guided missile can aim at the target and deliver gigajoules of
    explosive energy.

    Yes.


    The advantage of a railgun is then rate of fire (hard to saturate) and >>>> far smaller round volume (which isn't itself dangerous), so the
    magazine can contain far more rounds before needing replenishment,
    greatly improving the logistics.


    A good machine gun can fire many rounds per second.

    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/07/16/fastest-firing-machine-guns-in-the-world/

    The rail guns overheat and destroy their own barrels rapidly. And need
    a gigantic power supply to fire very often.

    It's like the difference between gasoline and batteries: orders of
    magnitude different energy density.

    The difference is that it's hard for a gun to make bullets fly faster
    than the speed of sound in the hot gases propelling the shell down the
    barrel.

    Joe Gwinn

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.220_Swift


    That’s just supersonic at 300K, but the speed of sound goes like sqrt(T).

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs Principal Consultant ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to john larkin on Thu Oct 19 19:01:03 2023
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 13:21:44 -0700, john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:21:21 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:57:36 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:29:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:18:34 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >>>>wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs >>>>><bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what
    ATLA wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices would be based on how quickly incoming missiles
    approach.
    <https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/>

    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at >>>>>hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1 >>>>>ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    The big railguns intended to destroy a tank or ship or ballistic >>>>missile at great range very much had these problems, but it isn't >>>>obvious that a much smaller railgun cannot work: "the weapon can >>>>shoot 320g (or 0.7lb) 40mm steel rounds".

    Right, great range requires terminal guidance, which is hard to do out
    of a rail gun.

    A guided missile can aim at the target and deliver gigajoules of >>>explosive energy.

    Yes.


    The advantage of a railgun is then rate of fire (hard to saturate) and >>>>far smaller round volume (which isn't itself dangerous), so the >>>>magazine can contain far more rounds before needing replenishment, >>>>greatly improving the logistics.


    A good machine gun can fire many rounds per second.
    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/07/16/fastest-firing-machine-guns-in-the-world/

    The rail guns overheat and destroy their own barrels rapidly. And need
    a gigantic power supply to fire very often.

    It's like the difference between gasoline and batteries: orders of >>>magnitude different energy density.

    The difference is that it's hard for a gun to make bullets fly faster
    than the speed of sound in the hot gases propelling the shell down the >>barrel.

    Joe Gwinn

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.220_Swift

    That's pretty small for taking bigger things out at distance.

    I do know that the problem is that the speed of sound of the
    propelling gases matters, but I don't recall the ratio. Lots is
    published concerning the need to use pressurized helium or hydrogen
    when launching very high speed projectiles. This was done with a
    vacuum in the barrel ahead of the bullet and a burst membrane behind.
    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Thu Oct 19 17:27:11 2023
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 22:19:47 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:21:21 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:57:36 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:29:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:18:34 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA >>>>>>> railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), >>>>>>> of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s >>>>>>> (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying
    speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves >>>>>>> by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices >>>>>>> would be based on how quickly incoming missiles approach.

    <https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/>

    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at >>>>>> hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1 >>>>>> ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    The big railguns intended to destroy a tank or ship or ballistic
    missile at great range very much had these problems, but it isn't
    obvious that a much smaller railgun cannot work: "the weapon can
    shoot 320g (or 0.7lb) 40mm steel rounds".

    Right, great range requires terminal guidance, which is hard to do out >>>> of a rail gun.

    A guided missile can aim at the target and deliver gigajoules of
    explosive energy.

    Yes.


    The advantage of a railgun is then rate of fire (hard to saturate) and >>>>> far smaller round volume (which isn't itself dangerous), so the
    magazine can contain far more rounds before needing replenishment,
    greatly improving the logistics.


    A good machine gun can fire many rounds per second.

    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/07/16/fastest-firing-machine-guns-in-the-world/

    The rail guns overheat and destroy their own barrels rapidly. And need >>>> a gigantic power supply to fire very often.

    It's like the difference between gasoline and batteries: orders of
    magnitude different energy density.

    The difference is that it's hard for a gun to make bullets fly faster
    than the speed of sound in the hot gases propelling the shell down the
    barrel.

    Joe Gwinn

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.220_Swift


    That’s just supersonic at 300K, but the speed of sound goes like sqrt(T).

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Given some gunpowder squashed into a container and ignited, is the
    result a gas?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Oct 20 02:19:51 2023
    On 2023-10-20, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 22:19:47 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <jl@650pot.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:21:21 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:57:36 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:29:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> >>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:18:34 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >>>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA >>>>>>>> railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), >>>>>>>> of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s >>>>>>>> (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying >>>>>>>> speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves >>>>>>>> by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices >>>>>>>> would be based on how quickly incoming missiles approach.

    <https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/>

    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at >>>>>>> hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1 >>>>>>> ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    The big railguns intended to destroy a tank or ship or ballistic
    missile at great range very much had these problems, but it isn't
    obvious that a much smaller railgun cannot work: "the weapon can >>>>>> shoot 320g (or 0.7lb) 40mm steel rounds".

    Right, great range requires terminal guidance, which is hard to do out >>>>> of a rail gun.

    A guided missile can aim at the target and deliver gigajoules of
    explosive energy.

    Yes.


    The advantage of a railgun is then rate of fire (hard to saturate) and >>>>>> far smaller round volume (which isn't itself dangerous), so the
    magazine can contain far more rounds before needing replenishment, >>>>>> greatly improving the logistics.


    A good machine gun can fire many rounds per second.

    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/07/16/fastest-firing-machine-guns-in-the-world/

    The rail guns overheat and destroy their own barrels rapidly. And need >>>>> a gigantic power supply to fire very often.

    It's like the difference between gasoline and batteries: orders of
    magnitude different energy density.

    The difference is that it's hard for a gun to make bullets fly faster
    than the speed of sound in the hot gases propelling the shell down the >>>> barrel.

    Joe Gwinn

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.220_Swift


    ThatÂ’s just supersonic at 300K, but the speed of sound goes like sqrt(T).

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Given some gunpowder squashed into a container and ignited, is the
    result a gas?

    Flames are mostly gas, there's a little plamsa, but it's mostly hot gas.

    --
    Jasen.
    🇺🇦 Слава Україні

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu Oct 19 19:23:51 2023
    On Friday, October 20, 2023 at 11:27:33 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 22:19:47 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    john larkin <j...@650pot.com> wrote:
    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 15:21:21 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:57:36 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> >>> wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 12:29:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> >>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 09:18:34 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> >>>>> wrote:

    On Thu, 19 Oct 2023 08:33:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA >>>>>>> railgun utilizes five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), >>>>>>> of charge energy. It can fire bullets at a speed of around 2,230m/s >>>>>>> (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA wants it to run on eventually.

    This is the unbelievable part:

    Additionally, interceptors can be fired by railguns at varying >>>>>>> speeds. Operators can change the rate at which an interceptor moves >>>>>>> by manipulating the amount of electrical power used. These choices >>>>>>> would be based on how quickly incoming missiles approach.

    <https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/>

    Why is that unbelievable?

    Railguns are very old news. Chemical energy is far more effective at >>>>>> hurling projectiles than stored electrical energy, at about a 1000:1 >>>>>> ratio, and rail guns wear out a lot faster than gun barrels.

    The big railguns intended to destroy a tank or ship or ballistic
    missile at great range very much had these problems, but it isn't >>>>> obvious that a much smaller railgun cannot work: "the weapon can
    shoot 320g (or 0.7lb) 40mm steel rounds".

    Right, great range requires terminal guidance, which is hard to do out >>>> of a rail gun.

    A guided missile can aim at the target and deliver gigajoules of
    explosive energy.

    Yes.


    The advantage of a railgun is then rate of fire (hard to saturate) and >>>>> far smaller round volume (which isn't itself dangerous), so the
    magazine can contain far more rounds before needing replenishment, >>>>> greatly improving the logistics.


    A good machine gun can fire many rounds per second.

    https://247wallst.com/special-report/2023/07/16/fastest-firing-machine-guns-in-the-world/

    The rail guns overheat and destroy their own barrels rapidly. And need >>>> a gigantic power supply to fire very often.

    It's like the difference between gasoline and batteries: orders of
    magnitude different energy density.

    The difference is that it's hard for a gun to make bullets fly faster >>> than the speed of sound in the hot gases propelling the shell down the >>> barrel.

    Joe Gwinn

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.220_Swift


    That’s just supersonic at 300K, but the speed of sound goes like sqrt(T).

    Given some gunpowder squashed into a container and ignited, is the result a gas?

    Classically gun powder was a mixture of charcoal (carbon) saltpeter (sodium/potassium nitrate) and sulphur.

    It burns to CO2, SO2 and nitrogen - which are gases - and sodium and potassium oxides (which aren't) so it's a rather dusty gas, but the gas production was what was important. John Larkin did skip some of his chemistry lessons at Tulane.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Sat Oct 21 17:51:56 2023
    On October 19, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes
    five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at
    a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA wants it
    to run on eventually. https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look-at-americas-supergun-1464359194

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to RichD on Sun Oct 22 08:07:17 2023
    On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 8:52:01 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On October 19, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes
    five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at
    a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA wants it
    to run on eventually. https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look-at-americas-supergun-1464359194

    That's a 7 year old article, which is 1) totally obsolete and 2) a cheap shill for the military spending. Around the time of the article, they were putting $500M into the program, an amount they admitted to, meaning it was probably more like $1B, and the
    whole thing was eventually a failure. All the demonstrations they publicized on video are land based test site experiments.

    Major shortfalls:

    1) never could meet the 10 shots per minute requirement,

    2) still had not overcome material erosion of the rail, which would result in costly and time consuming changeout too frequently for operational purposes,

    3) system required the use of a $38k guided round [ far cry from 'dollar a shot' initial selling point ] to meet the accuracy performance at range, a ballistic projectile wouldn't cut it, shipborne system have to contend with pitch, yaw, and roll, and
    the ocean environment tends to be windy,

    4) super expensive backfit of high performance, high capacity, power generation required wherever it would be installed.

    5) lots of other things...

    The only selling point they had for this thing was to eliminate the vulnerability of ammunition stores on the ship, harkening back to some of those humongous WW2 British Navy disaster battleship explosions where they lost 4,000 sailors in a single blast.
    Looks like that wasn't such a priority anymore.



    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeff Layman@21:1/5 to RichD on Thu Oct 26 11:41:11 2023
    On 22/10/2023 01:51, RichD wrote:
    On October 19, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes
    five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at
    a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA wants it
    to run on eventually.
    https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look-at-americas-supergun-1464359194

    <https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/07/01/us-navy-ditches-futuristic-railgun-eyes-hypersonic-missiles/>

    --

    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com on Thu Oct 26 09:10:20 2023
    On Sun, 22 Oct 2023 08:07:17 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, October 21, 2023 at 8:52:01?PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On October 19, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes
    five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at
    a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA wants it
    to run on eventually.
    https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look-at-americas-supergun-1464359194

    That's a 7 year old article, which is 1) totally obsolete and 2) a cheap shill for the military spending. Around the time of the article, they were putting $500M into the program, an amount they admitted to, meaning it was probably more like $1B, and
    the whole thing was eventually a failure. All the demonstrations they publicized on video are land based test site experiments.

    Major shortfalls:

    1) never could meet the 10 shots per minute requirement,

    2) still had not overcome material erosion of the rail, which would result in costly and time consuming changeout too frequently for operational purposes,

    3) system required the use of a $38k guided round [ far cry from 'dollar a shot' initial selling point ] to meet the accuracy performance at range, a ballistic projectile wouldn't cut it, shipborne system have to contend with pitch, yaw, and roll, and
    the ocean environment tends to be windy,

    4) super expensive backfit of high performance, high capacity, power generation required wherever it would be installed.

    5) lots of other things...

    The only selling point they had for this thing was to eliminate the vulnerability of ammunition stores on the ship, harkening back to some of those humongous WW2 British Navy disaster battleship explosions where they lost 4,000 sailors in a single blast.
    Looks like that wasn't such a priority anymore.



    Whatever energy source launches projectiles, it has to be stored on
    the ship.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to Jeff Layman on Fri Oct 27 11:04:45 2023
    On Thursday, October 26, 2023 at 6:41:20 AM UTC-4, Jeff Layman wrote:
    On 22/10/2023 01:51, RichD wrote:
    On October 19, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    According to a previous report published in Shephard Media, the ATLA railgun utilizes
    five megajoules (MJ), or five million joules (J), of charge energy. It can fire bullets at
    a speed of around 2,230m/s (Mach 6.5). 20 MJ of charge energy is what ATLA wants it
    to run on eventually.
    https://www.eurasiantimes.com/historic-japan-becomes-1st-country-ever-to-fire-electromagnetic/

    https://www.wsj.com/articles/a-first-look-at-americas-supergun-1464359194
    <https://www.defensenews.com/naval/2021/07/01/us-navy-ditches-futuristic-railgun-eyes-hypersonic-missiles/>

    Like any of that was a surprise they couldn't see coming before they spent a billion on it. Total ripoff.

    And the 'advanced' gun system for the zumwalt destroyers was cancelled because the projectiles were coming in at $300k per copy. Like any of that was a surprise either. The gun-less navy destroyers- must be a first.

    The rest the article is typical media garbage about moving on to even newer technology to spend a bundle on ...





    --

    Jeff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Fri Oct 27 14:13:31 2023
    On October 22, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    The only selling point they had for this thing was to eliminate the vulnerability of
    ammunition stores on the ship, harkening back to some of those humongous
    WW2 British Navy disaster battleship explosions where they lost 4,000 sailors in a single blast.

    Quite. And the U.S. navy was a prime beneficiary of such tactics.
    What sank the japanese carriers at the battle of Midway?

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to RichD on Fri Oct 27 14:30:34 2023
    On Friday, October 27, 2023 at 5:13:36 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On October 22, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    The only selling point they had for this thing was to eliminate the vulnerability of
    ammunition stores on the ship, harkening back to some of those humongous WW2 British Navy disaster battleship explosions where they lost 4,000 sailors
    in a single blast.
    Quite. And the U.S. navy was a prime beneficiary of such tactics.
    What sank the japanese carriers at the battle of Midway?

    Dive bombers

    They also sent a squadron of torpedo bombers but they were ineffective.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_SBD_Dauntless


    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From RichD@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Sat Oct 28 11:13:25 2023
    On October 27, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    The only selling point they had for this thing was to eliminate the vulnerability of
    ammunition stores on the ship, harkening back to some of those humongous >>> WW2 British Navy disaster battleship explosions where they lost 4,000 sailors
    in a single blast.

    Quite. And the U.S. navy was a prime beneficiary of such tactics.
    What sank the japanese carriers at the battle of Midway?

    Dive bombers

    You miss the point. The carriers were loaded with their own ordnance
    below deck, as their planes were in process of reloading. By grace of
    Allah, the U.S. bombers arrived at the ideal moment. Their bombs
    ignited the fuel like a giant hibachi.

    For anyone interested in military history, there's an excellent vid on
    Youtube, displaying the battle from admiral Nagumo's point of view,
    in his headquarters, as it unfolded. "the fog of war"

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to RichD on Sat Oct 28 18:28:58 2023
    On Saturday, October 28, 2023 at 2:13:30 PM UTC-4, RichD wrote:
    On October 27, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    The only selling point they had for this thing was to eliminate the vulnerability of
    ammunition stores on the ship, harkening back to some of those humongous >>> WW2 British Navy disaster battleship explosions where they lost 4,000 sailors
    in a single blast.

    Quite. And the U.S. navy was a prime beneficiary of such tactics.
    What sank the japanese carriers at the battle of Midway?

    Dive bombers
    You miss the point. The carriers were loaded with their own ordnance
    below deck, as their planes were in process of reloading. By grace of
    Allah, the U.S. bombers arrived at the ideal moment. Their bombs
    ignited the fuel like a giant hibachi.

    The original mission of the IJN was to destroy the US air station on Midway. The discovery of a USN carrier group within range of them was a complete surprise. The Japanese admiral was conflicted with either continuing the bombing on Midway or going
    after the carrier group. The one mission required the aircraft be loaded with heavy bombs, and the second torpedoes. Japanese admiral decided to go all in on the selected mission, and apparently didn't keep any combat patrol aircraft in the air to
    protect his carriers. Dive bombers, of whatever make, are slow lumbering sitting ducks for fighter aircraft. IJN was in process of changing out the armament and fueling aircraft when the U.S. dive bomber attack took place. The big carriers were an easy
    target. A 500 pounder detonating in a closed space below deck was a horrendous concussion. No one was alive to put out the fuel fires. There's no mention in the historical narratives of sympathetic (so-called) explosions of a giant magazines of bombs
    going off, all they say is the carriers caught fire and the crews abandoned ship. Which was all the same because the Japanese weren't going to be able to rebuild a heavily damaged ship, the carriers were out of the war for the duration, afloat or on the
    bottom.



    For anyone interested in military history, there's an excellent vid on Youtube, displaying the battle from admiral Nagumo's point of view,
    in his headquarters, as it unfolded. "the fog of war"

    --
    Rich

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)