'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that’s because it doesn’t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only generates around 25 percent of the energya solar panel can generate in a typical day. But that’s still clean energy that you didn’t have before, so it’s worth harnessing while you can.'
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 12:13:02 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:energy a solar panel can generate in a typical day. But that’s still clean energy that you didn’t have before, so it’s worth harnessing while you can.'
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that’s because it doesn’t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only generates around 25 percent of the
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/Sounds like nonsense. There are temperature difference around at night, but they aren't big and thermoelectric generators never generate much power.
Maybe somebody has confused current with energy, and ignored the voltage it can deliver. Or maybe the author is simply a lunatic.and vegetables rely on to create their energy."
"Other advancements in solar power have also seen solar panels that don’t need sunlight to generate electricity. You can read more about those in our previous report, but they essentially work by using the same rays of ultraviolet light that fruits
Sunlight does include a bit of ultraviolet light, but plants don't exploit it.
BGR apparently stands Boy Genius Report, and this report suggests that boy genius is about three years old.,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penske_Media_Corporation
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets?
Well, that’s because it doesn’t generate tons of electricity.
Instead, some estimate it only generates around 25 percent of the energy a solar panel can generate in a typical day. But that’s still clean energy that you didn’t have before, so it’s worth harnessing while you can.'
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that’s because it doesn’t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only generates around 25 percent of the energya solar panel can generate in a typical day. But that’s still clean energy that you didn’t have before, so it’s worth harnessing while you can.'
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets?Probably because it doesn't work.
The panel will get cold by radiating into space. It will need to be insulated from local air, or a lot of the cold will be wasted to condensation. (Why aren't people reclaiming the fresh water?)
TE generators are horribly inefficient. They need huge heat sinks to
work against. Fan cooled?
I'd expect the cost per KWH to be hundreds of times that of a daytime
solar panel. Thousands maybe.
There are calcularors online for radiating into the night sky. The boy geniuses should google for one.
Well, that’s because it doesn’t generate tons of electricity.As Sloman would say, electricity isn't measured in tons.
Instead, some estimate it only generates around 25 percent of the energy a solar panel can generate in a typical day. But that’s still clean energy that you didn’t have before, so it’s worth harnessing while you can.'
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets?Probably because it doesn't work.
The panel will get cold by radiating into space. It will need to be
insulated from local air, or a lot of the cold will be wasted to
condensation. (Why aren't people reclaiming the fresh water?)
It doesn't need to be cold air, it just needs to be workably less warm than the panel.
TE generators are horribly inefficient. They need huge heat sinks to
work against. Fan cooled?
Not anymore. Waste heat recovery using phase change Rankine Cycle system is becoming quite popular in the shipping industry.
https://www.sustainable-ships.org/stories/2023/exhaust-gas-heat-recovery
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets?Probably because it doesn't work.
The panel will get cold by radiating into space. It will need to be
insulated from local air, or a lot of the cold will be wasted to
condensation. (Why aren't people reclaiming the fresh water?)
It doesn't need to be cold air, it just needs to be workably less warm than the panel.The proposed scheme has the panel get cold from radiation into space,
so the heat sink has to be warmer.
The universe has a temp around 4K, but the night sky on earth is a
"ton" warmer.
TE generators are horribly inefficient. They need huge heat sinks to
work against. Fan cooled?
Not anymore. Waste heat recovery using phase change Rankine Cycle system is becoming quite popular in the shipping industry.
https://www.sustainable-ships.org/stories/2023/exhaust-gas-heat-recovery
The idea is absurd.
Wait and see.
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets?Probably because it doesn't work.
The panel will get cold by radiating into space. It will need to be
insulated from local air, or a lot of the cold will be wasted to
condensation. (Why aren't people reclaiming the fresh water?)
It doesn't need to be cold air, it just needs to be workably less warm than the panel.The proposed scheme has the panel get cold from radiation into space,
so the heat sink has to be warmer.
The universe has a temp around 4K, but the night sky on earth is a
"ton" warmer.
TE generators are horribly inefficient. They need huge heat sinks to
work against. Fan cooled?
Not anymore. Waste heat recovery using phase change Rankine Cycle system is becoming quite popular in the shipping industry.
https://www.sustainable-ships.org/stories/2023/exhaust-gas-heat-recovery
The idea is absurd.
Wait and see.
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 10:41:14 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:energy a solar panel can generate in a typical day. But that’s still clean energy that you didn’t have before, so it’s worth harnessing while you can.'
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 12:13:02 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that’s because it doesn’t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only generates around 25 percent of the
You can judge for yourself:https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/Sounds like nonsense. There are temperature difference around at night, but they aren't big and thermoelectric generators never generate much power.
https://pubs.aip.org/aip/apl/article/120/14/143901/2833430/Nighttime-electric-power-generation-at-a-density
and vegetables rely on to create their energy."Maybe somebody has confused current with energy, and ignored the voltage it can deliver. Or maybe the author is simply a lunatic.
"Other advancements in solar power have also seen solar panels that don’t need sunlight to generate electricity. You can read more about those in our previous report, but they essentially work by using the same rays of ultraviolet light that fruits
pictures of the Android 2.0 mobile operating system in 2009[7] and the first reported picture of the Amazon Kindle 2 in 2008.[8]Sunlight does include a bit of ultraviolet light, but plants don't exploit it.
BGR apparently stands Boy Genius Report, and this report suggests that boy genius is about three years old.,
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penske_Media_Corporation
"BGR has been mentioned in many major news sources such as the Wall Street Journal blog Digits,[2] ABC News,[3] Reuters,[4] The Huffington Post,[5] and CNBC.[6] Examples of BGR's ability to be the first to report news about a gadget include the first
As of August 2017 BGR reaches over 11 million unique visitors a month.[9]"anonymous at first due to the marketing opportunities that being anonymous afforded him and his site (despite his identity being widely known by many of the organizations whose information he was disclosing). When BGR joined Penske Media Corporation,
"While running BGR, Boy Genius kept his identity concealed. On April 27, 2010, Boy Genius revealed himself as Jonathan Geller, a 23-year-old Greenwich, Connecticut, high school dropout who never attended college.[10][11] Geller chose to remain
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/the-genius-jonathan-geller_b_5058921
https://allthingsd.com/20100426/mobile-blogger-boy-genius-unmasked-acquired/
You need to try another angle because "three years old" mental age isn't going to make it.
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets?Probably because it doesn't work.
The panel will get cold by radiating into space. It will need to be
insulated from local air, or a lot of the cold will be wasted to
condensation. (Why aren't people reclaiming the fresh water?)
It doesn't need to be cold air, it just needs to be workably less warm than the panel.The proposed scheme has the panel get cold from radiation into space,
so the heat sink has to be warmer.
The universe has a temp around 4K, but the night sky on earth is a "ton" warmer.
TE generators are horribly inefficient. They need huge heat sinks to work against. Fan cooled?
Not anymore. Waste heat recovery using phase change Rankine Cycle system is becoming quite popular in the shipping industry.
https://www.sustainable-ships.org/stories/2023/exhaust-gas-heat-recovery
The idea is absurd.
Wait and see.
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:32:27 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets?Probably because it doesn't work.
The panel will get cold by radiating into space. It will need to be
insulated from local air, or a lot of the cold will be wasted to
condensation. (Why aren't people reclaiming the fresh water?)
It doesn't need to be cold air, it just needs to be workably less warm than the panel.The proposed scheme has the panel get cold from radiation into space,
so the heat sink has to be warmer.
The universe has a temp around 4K, but the night sky on earth is a
"ton" warmer.
TE generators are horribly inefficient. They need huge heat sinks to
work against. Fan cooled?
Not anymore. Waste heat recovery using phase change Rankine Cycle system is becoming quite popular in the shipping industry.
https://www.sustainable-ships.org/stories/2023/exhaust-gas-heat-recovery
The idea is absurd.
Wait and see.
Let's wait until Uncle Sam offers tax credit for TG panels - they are always suckers for a scam from the libtards.
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 8:13:00 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:dementia is progressing very rapidly.
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:32:27 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets?Probably because it doesn't work.
The panel will get cold by radiating into space. It will need to be >> insulated from local air, or a lot of the cold will be wasted to
condensation. (Why aren't people reclaiming the fresh water?)
It doesn't need to be cold air, it just needs to be workably less warm than the panel.The proposed scheme has the panel get cold from radiation into space,
so the heat sink has to be warmer.
The universe has a temp around 4K, but the night sky on earth is a
"ton" warmer.
TE generators are horribly inefficient. They need huge heat sinks to >> work against. Fan cooled?
Not anymore. Waste heat recovery using phase change Rankine Cycle system is becoming quite popular in the shipping industry.
https://www.sustainable-ships.org/stories/2023/exhaust-gas-heat-recovery
The idea is absurd.
Wait and see.
Let's wait until Uncle Sam offers tax credit for TG panels - they are always suckers for a scam from the libtards.That's probably a scam too far. Nobody is subsiding regular solar cells any more - it's the cheapest way of generating electricity on offer so you don't need to subsidise it. Sewage Sweeper hasn't got the message yet and probably never will. His senile
--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 9:55:05?PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote: >> On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 8:13:00?AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:senile dementia is progressing very rapidly.
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:32:27?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:That's probably a scam too far. Nobody is subsiding regular solar cells any more - it's the cheapest way of generating electricity on offer so you don't need to subsidise it. Sewage Sweeper hasn't got the message yet and probably never will. His
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:The proposed scheme has the panel get cold from radiation into space,
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets?Probably because it doesn't work.
The panel will get cold by radiating into space. It will need to be >> > > >> insulated from local air, or a lot of the cold will be wasted to
condensation. (Why aren't people reclaiming the fresh water?)
It doesn't need to be cold air, it just needs to be workably less warm than the panel.
so the heat sink has to be warmer.
The universe has a temp around 4K, but the night sky on earth is a
"ton" warmer.
The idea is absurd.
TE generators are horribly inefficient. They need huge heat sinks to >> > > >> work against. Fan cooled?
Not anymore. Waste heat recovery using phase change Rankine Cycle system is becoming quite popular in the shipping industry.
https://www.sustainable-ships.org/stories/2023/exhaust-gas-heat-recovery
Wait and see.
Let's wait until Uncle Sam offers tax credit for TG panels - they are always suckers for a scam from the libtards.
--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
Do you have a solar power system? I thought not - well, I do and I can tell you that w/o the subsidies it is UNECONOMICAL. But a self-absorbed person like yourself can't do the very simple research to figure that out.
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 9:55:05 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 8:13:00 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:32:27 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
senile dementia is progressing very rapidly.Let's wait until Uncle Sam offers tax credit for TG panels - they are always suckers for a scam from the libtards.
That's probably a scam too far. Nobody is subsiding regular solar cells any more - it's the cheapest way of generating electricity on offer so you don't need to subsidise it. Sewage Sweeper hasn't got the message yet and probably never will. His
Do you have a solar power system?
I thought not - well, I do and I can tell you that w/o the subsidies it is UNECONOMICAL. But a self-absorbed person like yourself can't do the very simple research to figure that out.
On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 08:28:57 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 9:55:05?PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 8:13:00?AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:32:27?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >> > > >> On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
I doubt he has an electric car or a heat-pump water heater either.
What's your latitude?
The solar economics drops with latitude. Here at 38N, and the usual fog, it doesn't pay.
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Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
From: Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
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On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:32:27?PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:The proposed scheme has the panel get cold from radiation into space,
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets?Probably because it doesn't work.
The panel will get cold by radiating into space. It will need to be
insulated from local air, or a lot of the cold will be wasted to
condensation. (Why aren't people reclaiming the fresh water?)
It doesn't need to be cold air, it just needs to be workably less warm than the panel.
so the heat sink has to be warmer.
The universe has a temp around 4K, but the night sky on earth is a
"ton" warmer.
The idea is absurd.
TE generators are horribly inefficient. They need huge heat sinks to
work against. Fan cooled?
Not anymore. Waste heat recovery using phase change Rankine Cycle system is becoming quite popular in the shipping industry.
https://www.sustainable-ships.org/stories/2023/exhaust-gas-heat-recovery
Wait and see.
Let's wait until Uncle Sam offers tax credit for TG panels - they are always suckers for a scam from the libtards.
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 2:29:02 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:senile dementia is progressing very rapidly.
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 9:55:05 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:<snip>
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 8:13:00 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:32:27 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >> On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's wait until Uncle Sam offers tax credit for TG panels - they are always suckers for a scam from the libtards.
That's probably a scam too far. Nobody is subsiding regular solar cells any more - it's the cheapest way of generating electricity on offer so you don't need to subsidise it. Sewage Sweeper hasn't got the message yet and probably never will. His
Do you have a solar power system?A twelve story inner city apartment block built in 1986 doesn't lend itself to solar power installation.
I thought not - well, I do and I can tell you that w/o the subsidies it is UNECONOMICAL. But a self-absorbed person like yourself can't do the very simple research to figure that out.How long ago did you buy it?
https://news.energysage.com/solar-panel-efficiency-cost-over-time/more power.
Back in 2009 you would have paid $8.50 per watt. Today you pay $2.77. Some of that is simply economy of scale - the cells are made in ten times the volumes they used to be, which usually halves the price and some of it is that modern cells generate
Single junction cells have gone up from 18% of the theoretical limit to about 24% in the last decade or so (single junction cells can't get above 31% so there's no a lot of room left for improvement).
You presumably haven't looked at the problem since you bought your system. I get my input from the fuss in the local press about the local utility companies who won't invest in any generating capacity that isn't solar cells or wind turbines.
Burning coal and gas to get power is just too expensive for them to invest in getting more power that way. I have got shares in one of them, but they don't bother consutling the shareholders about that kind of no-brainer.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
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Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
From: Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com>
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From: john larkin <jl@650pot.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 14:06:22 -0700
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'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that’s because it doesn’t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only generates around 25 percent of the energy asolar panel can generate in a typical day. But that’s still clean energy that you didn’t have before, so it’s worth harnessing while you can.'
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 9:47:58 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:senile dementia is progressing very rapidly.
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 2:29:02 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 9:55:05 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:<snip>
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 8:13:00 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:32:27 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's wait until Uncle Sam offers tax credit for TG panels - they are always suckers for a scam from the libtards.
That's probably a scam too far. Nobody is subsiding regular solar cells any more - it's the cheapest way of generating electricity on offer so you don't need to subsidise it. Sewage Sweeper hasn't got the message yet and probably never will. His
Do you have a solar power system?
A twelve story inner city apartment block built in 1986 doesn't lend itself to solar power installation.\
Just as I posited.
more power.I thought not - well, I do and I can tell you that w/o the subsidies it is UNECONOMICAL. But a self-absorbed person like yourself can't do the very simple research to figure that out.
How long ago did you buy it?2014
https://news.energysage.com/solar-panel-efficiency-cost-over-time/
Back in 2009 you would have paid $8.50 per watt. Today you pay $2.77. Some of that is simply economy of scale - the cells are made in ten times the volumes they used to be, which usually halves the price and some of it is that modern cells generate
We paid about $4/W, but this STILL doesn't make it pencil out w/o subsidies. We save less than $1k/year on our power bill, so at your $2.77/W rate our system would take TWENTY-FIVE YEARS just to recover initial costs. We recently had a power inverterfail. Fortunately, this was covered under warranty, but if it wasn't it would have cost $6k plus installation, or SEVEN YEARS or production to recover the costs.
Single junction cells have gone up from 18% of the theoretical limit to about 24% in the last decade or so (single junction cells can't get above 31% so there's no a lot of room left for improvement).
You presumably haven't looked at the problem since you bought your system. I get my input from the fuss in the local press about the local utility companies who won't invest in any generating capacity that isn't solar cells or wind turbines.
WRONG AGAIN, BOZO! I have done similar cost recovery estimates for friends, and it just DOESN'T pencil out.
Burning coal and gas to get power is just too expensive for them to invest in getting more power that way. I have got shares in one of them, but they don't bother consulting the shareholders about that kind of no-brainer.
Nat gas is the most economical, followed by nuclear.
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:energy a solar panel can generate in a typical day. But that’s still clean energy that you didn’t have before, so it’s worth harnessing while you can.'
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that’s because it doesn’t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only generates around 25 percent of the
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/Imagine paving over the back of a solar panel with a meter-square
Peltier generator. Then a big heat sink and, I guess, some fans.
In the daytime, the solar panel gets hot, the heat sink is cool, and
you generate extra electricity, and cool the panel a bit to get more efficiency. Free power!
Now at night, radiation cools the panel and heat comes up from the
heat sink, and you make power (opposite polarity) then too.
The daytime output of the Peltier will be vastly more than the
night-time power. The sun is a lot hotter than the night sky is cool.
So why aren't people already adding Peltiers to solar panels?
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From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 20:04:07 -0700
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On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why havenÂ’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels
generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, thatÂ’s because it
doesnÂ’t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only
generates around 25 percent of the energy a solar panel can generate in
a typical day. But thatÂ’s still clean energy that you didnÂ’t have
before, so itÂ’s worth harnessing while you can.'
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/
Imagine paving over the back of a solar panel with a meter-square
Peltier generator. Then a big heat sink and, I guess, some fans.
In the daytime, the solar panel gets hot, the heat sink is cool, and
you generate extra electricity, and cool the panel a bit to get more efficiency. Free power!
Now at night, radiation cools the panel and heat comes up from the
heat sink, and you make power (opposite polarity) then too.
The daytime output of the Peltier will be vastly more than the
night-time power. The sun is a lot hotter than the night sky is cool.
So why aren't people already adding Peltiers to solar panels?
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven?t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels
generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that?s because it
doesn?t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only
generates around 25 percent of the energy a solar panel can generate in
a typical day. But that?s still clean energy that you didn?t have
before, so it?s worth harnessing while you can.'
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/
Imagine paving over the back of a solar panel with a meter-square
Peltier generator. Then a big heat sink and, I guess, some fans.
In the daytime, the solar panel gets hot, the heat sink is cool, and
you generate extra electricity, and cool the panel a bit to get more
efficiency. Free power!
Now at night, radiation cools the panel and heat comes up from the
heat sink, and you make power (opposite polarity) then too.
The daytime output of the Peltier will be vastly more than the
night-time power. The sun is a lot hotter than the night sky is cool.
So why aren't people already adding Peltiers to solar panels?
Irreproachable. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:39:17 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven?t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels
generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that?s because it
doesn?t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only
generates around 25 percent of the energy a solar panel can generate in >>>> a typical day. But that?s still clean energy that you didn?t have
before, so it?s worth harnessing while you can.'
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/
Imagine paving over the back of a solar panel with a meter-square
Peltier generator. Then a big heat sink and, I guess, some fans.
In the daytime, the solar panel gets hot, the heat sink is cool, and
you generate extra electricity, and cool the panel a bit to get more
efficiency. Free power!
Now at night, radiation cools the panel and heat comes up from the
heat sink, and you make power (opposite polarity) then too.
The daytime output of the Peltier will be vastly more than the
night-time power. The sun is a lot hotter than the night sky is cool.
So why aren't people already adding Peltiers to solar panels?
Irreproachable. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
What do you think that meter-square Peltier would cost?
How much power
would it generate in the day and at night? To simplify the math,
assume an infinite backside heat sink to 20 degs c and a perectly
black solar panel.
And why bother with the solar panel at all?
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 10:41:14 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:energy a solar panel can generate in a typical day. But that’s still clean energy that you didn’t have before, so it’s worth harnessing while you can.'
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 12:13:02 AM UTC+11, Fred Bloggs wrote:
'So why haven’t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that’s because it doesn’t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only generates around 25 percent of the
Sounds like nonsense. There are temperature difference around at night, but they aren't big and thermoelectric generators never generate much power.
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/
You can judge for yourself:
https://pubs.aip.org/aip/apl/article/120/14/143901/2833430/Nighttime-electric-power-generation-at-a-density
Maybe somebody has confused current with energy, and ignored the voltage it can deliver. Or maybe the author is simply a lunatic.
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Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity
in the dark
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:39:17 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven?t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels
generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that?s because it
doesn?t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only
generates around 25 percent of the energy a solar panel can generate in >>>> a typical day. But that?s still clean energy that you didn?t have
before, so it?s worth harnessing while you can.'
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/
Imagine paving over the back of a solar panel with a meter-square
Peltier generator. Then a big heat sink and, I guess, some fans.
In the daytime, the solar panel gets hot, the heat sink is cool, and
you generate extra electricity, and cool the panel a bit to get more
efficiency. Free power!
Now at night, radiation cools the panel and heat comes up from the
heat sink, and you make power (opposite polarity) then too.
The daytime output of the Peltier will be vastly more than the
night-time power. The sun is a lot hotter than the night sky is cool.
So why aren't people already adding Peltiers to solar panels?
Irreproachable. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
What do you think that meter-square Peltier would cost? How much power
would it generate in the day and at night? To simplify the math,
assume an infinite backside heat sink to 20 degs c and a perectly
black solar panel.
And why bother with the solar panel at all?
On 2023-10-10 09:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:39:17 -0000 (UTC), Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:
'So why haven?t we heard more about this if it makes solar panels
generate electricity even after the sun sets? Well, that?s because it >>>>> doesn?t generate tons of electricity. Instead, some estimate it only >>>>> generates around 25 percent of the energy a solar panel can generate in >>>>> a typical day. But that?s still clean energy that you didn?t have
before, so it?s worth harnessing while you can.'
https://bgr.com/science/groundbreaking-new-solar-panels-can-generate-electricity-in-the-dark/
Imagine paving over the back of a solar panel with a meter-square
Peltier generator. Then a big heat sink and, I guess, some fans.
In the daytime, the solar panel gets hot, the heat sink is cool, and
you generate extra electricity, and cool the panel a bit to get more
efficiency. Free power!
Now at night, radiation cools the panel and heat comes up from the
heat sink, and you make power (opposite polarity) then too.
The daytime output of the Peltier will be vastly more than the
night-time power. The sun is a lot hotter than the night sky is cool.
So why aren't people already adding Peltiers to solar panels?
Irreproachable. ;)
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
What do you think that meter-square Peltier would cost? How much power
would it generate in the day and at night? To simplify the math,
assume an infinite backside heat sink to 20 degs c and a perectly
black solar panel.
And why bother with the solar panel at all?
During the day, the Peltier (TEC) will reduce the heat sink efficiency
fairly dramatically. If you have enough of them to conduct heat well,
you don't get any delta-T, and hence generate no significant
thermoelectric power either during the day or at night. So, you'd have
to use heat spreaders and reduce the TEC area.
Low thermal conductance is a good thing in temperature control
applications, of course--you want the TEC to conduct electricity like a >metal, and conduct heat as poorly as possible. In this case it'll make
a mess of the photovoltaic performance. You lose output at something
like 0.4%/K, and you need probably 40K delta-T to get anything much from >thermal generation, so it's hardly cost-free.
At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky
is very clear. It's cooler than during the day, for a start; any
gradient you get will be largely shorted out by the thermal conduction
of the TEC; and the thermal -> electrical conversion efficiency will be
only a couple of percent at very most, delivered at millivolt levels
that are hard to do anything with.
Another Gold Medal idea from the lower-tier of renewables fanbois, in
other words. :(
Cheers
Phil Hobbs
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From: john larkin <jl@650pot.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:11:26 -0700
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At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky
is very clear.
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:01:29 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky
is very clear. It's cooler than during the day, for a start; any
gradient you get will be largely shorted out by the thermal conduction
of the TEC; and the thermal -> electrical conversion efficiency will be
only a couple of percent at very most, delivered at millivolt levels
that are hard to do anything with.
Another Gold Medal idea from the lower-tier of renewables fanbois, in
other words. :(
If the sky were 4K at thermal wavelengths, as it is in the microwave,The sky effective temperature in the long wave thermal band is about
all sorts of fun things could be done, like cooling beer on a camping
trip. Or, I guess, freezing to death.
Earth is a nice planet.
On 10/10/2023 23:11, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:01:29 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky
is very clear. It's cooler than during the day, for a start; any
gradient you get will be largely shorted out by the thermal conduction
of the TEC; and the thermal -> electrical conversion efficiency will be
only a couple of percent at very most, delivered at millivolt levels
that are hard to do anything with.
Another Gold Medal idea from the lower-tier of renewables fanbois, in
other words. :(
+1
It is hard enough to get enough useful power out of a candle flame with
a stack of TECs as a demo to drive a LED. I needed an ice cube on top to
make it work (dry ice would have been less messy).
On a sunny day (Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:01:29 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in ><0f5326da-e80b-cb21-f0fc-6cec8ededfe0@electrooptical.net>:
At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky
is very clear.
The solution is simple, cover your body with Peltier cells added with a heatsink.
It will produce power at night, only costs food.
On a sunny day (Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:03:14 +0100) it happened Martin Brown ><'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <ug5ocl$1ob9c$1@dont-email.me>:
On 10/10/2023 23:11, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:01:29 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky >>>> is very clear. It's cooler than during the day, for a start; any
gradient you get will be largely shorted out by the thermal conduction >>>> of the TEC; and the thermal -> electrical conversion efficiency will be >>>> only a couple of percent at very most, delivered at millivolt levels
that are hard to do anything with.
Another Gold Medal idea from the lower-tier of renewables fanbois, in
other words. :(
+1
It is hard enough to get enough useful power out of a candle flame with
a stack of TECs as a demo to drive a LED. I needed an ice cube on top to >>make it work (dry ice would have been less messy).
This works better,
http://panteltje.nl/pub/lighting_a_LED_with_a_candle_IMG_3604.GIF
also for higher power with an additional MOSFET:
http://panteltje.nl/pub/lighting_a_LED_with_a_candle_circuit_diagram_with_added_power_MOSFET.gif
Setup, one of the tests anyways:
http://panteltje.nl/pub/lighting_a_LED_with_a_candle_setup_IMG_3607.GIF
Nothing new, in 2013...
https://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/06/high-school-girl-invents-flashlight-powered-by-body-heat/
I bought the 10 Peltiers to cool to below absolute zero by serializing / putting them on top of each other
It quantum crumbled the uni-verse and look at the mess we are now in
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From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the
dark
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:03:14 +0100
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From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the
dark
Date: Wed, 11 Oct 2023 09:51:17 GMT
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From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
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From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
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On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 1:28:38 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:His senile dementia is progressing very rapidly.
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 9:47:58 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 2:29:02 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 9:55:05 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:<snip>
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 8:13:00 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:32:27 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's wait until Uncle Sam offers tax credit for TG panels - they are always suckers for a scam from the libtards.
That's probably a scam too far. Nobody is subsiding regular solar cells any more - it's the cheapest way of generating electricity on offer so you don't need to subsidise it. Sewage Sweeper hasn't got the message yet and probably never will.
Do you have a solar power system?
A twelve story inner city apartment block built in 1986 doesn't lend itself to solar power installation.\
Just as I posited.But for the wrong reason.
more power.I thought not - well, I do and I can tell you that w/o the subsidies it is UNECONOMICAL. But a self-absorbed person like yourself can't do the very simple research to figure that out.
How long ago did you buy it?2014
https://news.energysage.com/solar-panel-efficiency-cost-over-time/
Back in 2009 you would have paid $8.50 per watt. Today you pay $2.77. Some of that is simply economy of scale - the cells are made in ten times the volumes they used to be, which usually halves the price and some of it is that modern cells generate
fail. Fortunately, this was covered under warranty, but if it wasn't it would have cost $6k plus installation, or SEVEN YEARS or production to recover the costs.We paid about $4/W, but this STILL doesn't make it pencil out w/o subsidies. We save less than $1k/year on our power bill, so at your $2.77/W rate our system would take TWENTY-FIVE YEARS just to recover initial costs. We recently had a power inverter
So you don't know how to do the sums right - but you do know how to do them wrong to get the result you want. You've been demonstrating your unique skills in that department here for years by posting links that you imagine support your daft ideas whenthe actually don't.
Single junction cells have gone up from 18% of the theoretical limit to about 24% in the last decade or so (single junction cells can't get above 31% so there's no a lot of room left for improvement).
You presumably haven't looked at the problem since you bought your system. I get my input from the fuss in the local press about the local utility companies who won't invest in any generating capacity that isn't solar cells or wind turbines.
WRONG AGAIN, BOZO! I have done similar cost recovery estimates for friends, and it just DOESN'T pencil out.Not when you do it. You do know how to get the result you want.
Burning coal and gas to get power is just too expensive for them to invest in getting more power that way. I have got shares in one of them, but they don't bother consulting the shareholders about that kind of no-brainer.
Nat gas is the most economical, followed by nuclear.https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source
As usual, you seem to have applied your peculiar skills to get the wrong answer.
--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 9:11:17 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:His senile dementia is progressing very rapidly.
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 1:28:38 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 9:47:58 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 2:29:02 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 9:55:05 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:<snip>
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 8:13:00 AM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:32:27 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:13:29 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 11:46:30?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 06:12:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
Let's wait until Uncle Sam offers tax credit for TG panels - they are always suckers for a scam from the libtards.
That's probably a scam too far. Nobody is subsiding regular solar cells any more - it's the cheapest way of generating electricity on offer so you don't need to subsidise it. Sewage Sweeper hasn't got the message yet and probably never will.
Do you have a solar power system?
A twelve story inner city apartment block built in 1986 doesn't lend itself to solar power installation.\
Just as I posited.
But for the wrong reason.
No, for the RIGHT reason - you have ZERO experience with a solar power system, ZERO.
I thought not - well, I do and I can tell you that w/o the subsidies it is UNECONOMICAL. But a self-absorbed person like yourself can't do the very simple research to figure that out.
generate more power.How long ago did you buy it?2014
https://news.energysage.com/solar-panel-efficiency-cost-over-time/
Back in 2009 you would have paid $8.50 per watt. Today you pay $2.77. Some of that is simply economy of scale - the cells are made in ten times the volumes they used to be, which usually halves the price and some of it is that modern cells
inverter fail. Fortunately, this was covered under warranty, but if it wasn't it would have cost $6k plus installation, or SEVEN YEARS or production to recover the costs.We paid about $4/W, but this STILL doesn't make it pencil out w/o subsidies. We save less than $1k/year on our power bill, so at your $2.77/W rate our system would take TWENTY-FIVE YEARS just to recover initial costs. We recently had a power
when the actually don't.So you don't know how to do the sums right - but you do know how to do them wrong to get the result you want. You've been demonstrating your unique skills in that department here for years by posting links that you imagine support your daft ideas
Hey Bozo, I DO, but you DON'T! You never even asked what our power rates are, a CRITICAL parameter in this calculation. This demonstrates that you DON'T know what you are talking about.
Single junction cells have gone up from 18% of the theoretical limit to about 24% in the last decade or so (single junction cells can't get above 31% so there's no a lot of room left for improvement).
You presumably haven't looked at the problem since you bought your system. I get my input from the fuss in the local press about the local utility companies who won't invest in any generating capacity that isn't solar cells or wind turbines.
WRONG AGAIN, BOZO! I have done similar cost recovery estimates for friends, and it just DOESN'T pencil out.
Not when you do it. You do know how to get the result you want.
Again, you FAIL to ask the critical questions REQUIRED to do the calculation because you don't know WTF you are talking about.
Burning coal and gas to get power is just too expensive for them to invest in getting more power that way. I have got shares in one of them, but they don't bother consulting the shareholders about that kind of no-brainer.
Nat gas is the most economical, followed by nuclear.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost_of_electricity_by_source
As usual, you seem to have applied your peculiar skills to get the wrong answer.
No, I have them right, unlike you.
On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 05:19:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:01:29 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs >><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in >><0f5326da-e80b-cb21-f0fc-6cec8ededfe0@electrooptical.net>:
At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky
is very clear.
The solution is simple, cover your body with Peltier cells added with a heatsink.
It will produce power at night, only costs food.
Not very romantic.
On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 09:51:17 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:03:14 +0100) it happened Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <ug5ocl$1ob9c$1@dont-email.me>:
On 10/10/2023 23:11, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:01:29 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky >>>>> is very clear. It's cooler than during the day, for a start; any
gradient you get will be largely shorted out by the thermal conduction >>>>> of the TEC; and the thermal -> electrical conversion efficiency will be >>>>> only a couple of percent at very most, delivered at millivolt levels >>>>> that are hard to do anything with.
Another Gold Medal idea from the lower-tier of renewables fanbois, in >>>>> other words. :(
+1
It is hard enough to get enough useful power out of a candle flame with
a stack of TECs as a demo to drive a LED. I needed an ice cube on top to >>> make it work (dry ice would have been less messy).
This works better,
http://panteltje.nl/pub/lighting_a_LED_with_a_candle_IMG_3604.GIF
How much light is emitted by the LED, compared to light emitted from
the candle.
I expect that system total light is reduced by the cooling effect on
the candle flame from poking the t/c into it.
The LED is a useful indicator that the candle is actually burning.
also for higher power with an additional MOSFET:
http://panteltje.nl/pub/lighting_a_LED_with_a_candle_circuit_diagram_with_added_power_MOSFET.gif
Setup, one of the tests anyways:
http://panteltje.nl/pub/lighting_a_LED_with_a_candle_setup_IMG_3607.GIF
Nothing new, in 2013...
https://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/06/high-school-girl-invents-flashlight-powered-by-body-heat/
I bought the 10 Peltiers to cool to below absolute zero by serializing / putting them on top of each other
It quantum crumbled the uni-verse and look at the mess we are now in
A good Tadiran primary lithium battery will last many decades.
Harvesting milliwatts at great expense is silly.
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Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
From: Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com>
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On 11/10/2023 15:53, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 09:51:17 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 11 Oct 2023 10:03:14 +0100) it happened Martin Brown >>> <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote in <ug5ocl$1ob9c$1@dont-email.me>:
On 10/10/2023 23:11, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:01:29 -0400, Phil Hobbs
<pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:
At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky >>>>>> is very clear. It's cooler than during the day, for a start; any
gradient you get will be largely shorted out by the thermal conduction >>>>>> of the TEC; and the thermal -> electrical conversion efficiency will be >>>>>> only a couple of percent at very most, delivered at millivolt levels >>>>>> that are hard to do anything with.
Another Gold Medal idea from the lower-tier of renewables fanbois, in >>>>>> other words. :(
+1
It is hard enough to get enough useful power out of a candle flame with >>>> a stack of TECs as a demo to drive a LED. I needed an ice cube on top to >>>> make it work (dry ice would have been less messy).
This works better,
http://panteltje.nl/pub/lighting_a_LED_with_a_candle_IMG_3604.GIF
How much light is emitted by the LED, compared to light emitted from
the candle.
I expect that system total light is reduced by the cooling effect on
the candle flame from poking the t/c into it.
The LED is a useful indicator that the candle is actually burning.
You can with the TEG approach put the assembly above the candle flame
and harvest something like 3W worth of electrical energy with a stack of >suitable plates. It's a very expensive solution but the LED is
considerably brighter than the candle flame whilst the ice cube lasts.
Maintaining the temperature differential is impossible for any length of >time. The thing is also dangerously hot on the flame side for some time
after use which isn't very friendly for a popular science lecture.
also for higher power with an additional MOSFET:
http://panteltje.nl/pub/lighting_a_LED_with_a_candle_circuit_diagram_with_added_power_MOSFET.gif
Setup, one of the tests anyways:
http://panteltje.nl/pub/lighting_a_LED_with_a_candle_setup_IMG_3607.GIF
Nothing new, in 2013...
https://cleantechnica.com/2013/07/06/high-school-girl-invents-flashlight-powered-by-body-heat/
I bought the 10 Peltiers to cool to below absolute zero by serializing / putting them on top of each other
It quantum crumbled the uni-verse and look at the mess we are now in
A good Tadiran primary lithium battery will last many decades.
Harvesting milliwatts at great expense is silly.
A candle flame is about 100W of heat delivered (and mostly as heat/hot
air).
On a sunny day (Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:54:44 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jl@997PotHill.com> wrote in <soddii1ihljd1oa5u9g4uhcldcu7nqusn2@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 05:19:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:01:29 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs >>><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in >>><0f5326da-e80b-cb21-f0fc-6cec8ededfe0@electrooptical.net>:
At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky >>>>is very clear.
The solution is simple, cover your body with Peltier cells added with a heatsink.
It will produce power at night, only costs food.
Not very romantic.
With same sex marriage etc it may not be long before marrying a bot is the normal
Already these days people have relations with AI bots I have read.
To the point of people crying if their AI friend is erased ...
So all those Peltiers may look sexy to a bot...
And then later our brain integrated in a big bot ..?
I you think Jules Verne 20000 miles under sea and how all that came true... >And then those bots colonizing alien planes, perfectly adapted to the environment there.
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From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 07:18:42 -0700
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From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
Date: Thu, 12 Oct 2023 04:08:12 GMT
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On a sunny day (Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:54:44 -0700) it happened John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> wrote in <soddii1ihljd1oa5u...@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 05:19:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> >wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:01:29 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs >><pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote in >><0f5326da-e80b-cb21...@electrooptical.net>:
At night, you'll get next to nothing out of it anyway, even if the sky >>>is very clear.
The solution is simple, cover your body with Peltier cells added with a heatsink.
It will produce power at night, only costs food.
Not very romantic.With same sex marriage etc it may not be long before marrying a bot is the normal
Already these days people have relations with AI bots I have read.
To the point of people crying if their AI friend is erased ...
So all those Peltiers may look sexy to a bot...
And then later our brain integrated in a big bot ..?
I you think Jules Verne 20000 miles under sea and how all that came true... And then those bots colonizing alien planes, perfectly adapted to the environment there.
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Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
From: John Smiht <utube.jocjo@xoxy.net>
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On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 11:08:20 PM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:
On a sunny day (Wed, 11 Oct 2023 07:54:44 -0700) it happened John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> wrote in <soddii1ihljd1oa5u...@4ax.com>:
On Wed, 11 Oct 2023 05:19:06 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 10 Oct 2023 18:01:29 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote in <0f5326da-e80b-cb21...@electrooptical.net>:
So all those Peltiers may look sexy to a bot...
And then later our brain integrated in a big bot ..?
I you think Jules Verne 20000 miles under sea and how all that came true...
And then those bots colonizing alien planes, perfectly adapted to the environment there.
Jan, you've got to stop smoking that strong stuff.
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:00:27 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/10/2023 15:53, John Larkin wrote:
How much light is emitted by the LED, compared to light emitted from
the candle.
I expect that system total light is reduced by the cooling effect on
the candle flame from poking the t/c into it.
The LED is a useful indicator that the candle is actually burning.
You can with the TEG approach put the assembly above the candle flame
and harvest something like 3W worth of electrical energy with a stack of
suitable plates. It's a very expensive solution but the LED is
considerably brighter than the candle flame whilst the ice cube lasts.
I wonder what is the net cost per KWH. Include the bags of ice cubes
and the matches for lighting the candles.
Does that rig even return the energy that it took to make the ice?
A candle flame is about 100W of heat delivered (and mostly as heat/hot
air).
I have a Tadiran battery and a 1M resistor and a good LED taped
together, in our bedroom. It makes a gentle glow that will last my
lifetime.
If I hold it in my mouth it becomes a useful guide light. I can bridge
the resistor with my tongue to control brightness.
On 12/10/2023 15:18, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 12 Oct 2023 12:00:27 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 11/10/2023 15:53, John Larkin wrote:
How much light is emitted by the LED, compared to light emitted from
the candle.
I expect that system total light is reduced by the cooling effect on
the candle flame from poking the t/c into it.
The LED is a useful indicator that the candle is actually burning.
You can with the TEG approach put the assembly above the candle flame
and harvest something like 3W worth of electrical energy with a stack of >>> suitable plates. It's a very expensive solution but the LED is
considerably brighter than the candle flame whilst the ice cube lasts.
I wonder what is the net cost per KWH. Include the bags of ice cubes
and the matches for lighting the candles.
Does that rig even return the energy that it took to make the ice?
I shouldn't think so. It was done to demonstrate just how inefficient a >candle flame was at producing light. I also had a 70's era LED in series
with a modern high efficiency one so with the same current flowing.
The big demo was a bike attached to a car dynamo with a switchable load
of load of none, 100W incandescent lamp or 12W LED lamp and a "willing" >volunteer from the audience who had to pedal rather hard at times.
It really drives home how just much power 100W is when you have to pedal
to make your electric light work!
A candle flame is about 100W of heat delivered (and mostly as heat/hot
air).
I have a Tadiran battery and a 1M resistor and a good LED taped
together, in our bedroom. It makes a gentle glow that will last my
lifetime.
If I hold it in my mouth it becomes a useful guide light. I can bridge
the resistor with my tongue to control brightness.
Kind of an expensive battery for that duty. I use a PP3 with a pair of
diodes in series and a resistor lasts about 3 years or so depending on
how much it is used at full brightness. Mine has a switch bridged by 1M.
I don't much like the taste of sodium hypochlorite myself. YMMV
Any of the domestic torches that take 3x AA or AAA can be modified to
have a leaky switch so that you can find them in the pitch dark. This >facility is not recognised by anyone apart from mariners and cavers.
3M had a beautiful plastic doped with strontium aluminate that really
glows in the dark and made emergency torches from it (back in the
filament bulb era). Sadly they never sold in any numbers. You can
sometimes find them on eBay. The plastic case will glow all night after
a day spent in direct sunshine. They also did key fobs in it which were
less effective spending most of their time in a pocket.
Path: not-for-mail
From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the
dark
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 15:31:19 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Groundbreaking new solar panels can generate electricity in the dark
Date: Sat, 14 Oct 2023 08:13:54 -0700
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