Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Taking out the ignition key usually seems to work when my ( internal combustion-engined) car decides to turn it's cruise control on.
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Taking out the ignition key usually seems to work when my ( internal combustion-engined) car decides to turn it's cruise control on. One has to wonder why the driver didn't try it.
Perhaps Cursitor Doom hasn't had to cope with a modern car yet. Mine is about ten years old, so it isn't all that modern, but it did come with all kinds of programmed bells and whistles
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 9:52:59?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote: >> On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Taking out the ignition key usually seems to work when my ( internal combustion-engined) car decides to turn it's cruise control on.
Another woman-designed subsystem...
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com>
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From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
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Subject: Another EV goes haywire!
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From: John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:15:11 -0700
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From: Clive Arthur <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk>
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
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On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no
clutch.
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Taking out the ignition key usually seems to work when my ( internal combustion-engined) car decides to turn it's cruise control on. One has to wonder why the driver didn't try it.
Perhaps Cursitor Doom hasn't had to cope with a modern car yet. Mine is about ten years old, so it isn't all that modern, but it did come with all kinds of programmed bells and whistles
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Path: not-for-mail
From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:01:52 +0100
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On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no
clutch.
Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly.
Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
Path: not-for-mail
From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:00:19 +0100
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On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Taking out the ignition key usually seems to work when my ( internal combustion-engined) car decides to turn it's cruise control on. One has to wonder why the driver didn't try it.
Perhaps Cursitor Doom hasn't had to cope with a modern car yet. Mine is about ten years old, so it isn't all that modern, but it did come with all kinds of programmed bells and whistles
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:00:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no >>>clutch.
Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly.
Like weekly?
I had a Sprite and a Midget, which were great fun and mechanically
awful. All the fluids leaked, including rainwater from above. DGMS on
Lucas electrics.
Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
I could get parts. Lots of them.
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:00:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no >>>clutch.
Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly.
Like weekly?
I had a Sprite and a Midget, which were great fun and mechanically
awful. All the fluids leaked, including rainwater from above. DGMS on
Lucas electrics.
Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
I could get parts. Lots of them.
ISTR the US lost a very expensive stealth aircraft due to similar coding problems or an unspecified and classified malfunction fairly recently and had to appeal to the public to help find its wreckage.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-66841194
Software is usually the cause of such malfunctions in high end kit.
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions:Â "Here, imagine THIS happening..."]
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 10:53:42 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:00:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my >>>>apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no >>>>clutch.
Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained >>>regularly.
Like weekly?
Yeah. In the 1970s, I had a girlfriend with a MG Sprite. and she
loved how it drove. I was always fixing something. Don't recall what >happened to it. I think it was totaled, but not by her.
I had a Sprite and a Midget, which were great fun and mechanically
awful. All the fluids leaked, including rainwater from above. DGMS on
Lucas electrics.
Lucas, Prince of Darkness
Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
I could get parts. Lots of them.
As could I. I recall the parts lady at the local British Cars dealer
in Baltimore. She had perfect memory. You could roughly describe
what you needed, and she would pause, then say that that's a
<27-character part number>, run off into the back, and come out with
the correct part. Every time.
Joe Gwinn
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 10:53:42 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:00:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my >>>>apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no >>>>clutch.
Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained >>>regularly.
Like weekly?
I had a Sprite and a Midget, which were great fun and mechanically
awful. All the fluids leaked, including rainwater from above. DGMS on
Lucas electrics.
Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
I could get parts. Lots of them.
I think you'd have had a much, much better experience with a pre-1976*
MG B or possibly a TF. The MGB roadster is highly-regarded. There were
so many of them made they're easy to find for sensible prices and
spares are plentiful. A TF is more pricey but a really classic sports
car with wonderful styling.
* pre '76 'cos after that they had those hideous rubber safety
fenders. Get a chrome bumper model if you can.
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From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
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From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
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From: Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:27:43 -0400
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On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 07:25:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 9:52:59?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> > Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Taking out the ignition key usually seems to work when my ( internal combustion-engined) car decides to turn it's cruise control on.
Another woman-designed subsystem...
More likely "programmer designed."
--
Bill Sloman, Sydney
The programmers that I know, mostly male, can type way faster than
they can think.
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>
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On 06/10/2023 14:52, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
He like the attention, that's all.
Taking out the ignition key usually seems to work when my ( internal combustion-engined) car decides to turn it's cruise control on. One has to wonder why the driver didn't try it.
On many (most?) cars, that would lock the steering.
Perhaps Cursitor Doom hasn't had to cope with a modern car yet. Mine is about ten years old, so it isn't all that modern, but it did come with all kinds of programmed bells and whistles.
Mine's coming up to 20 years old. The central locking hasn't worked for years and one door won't lock at all. The dashboard display sometimes spontaneously starts using German, and the rear wiper has a mind of its own. It's a Citroen, of course.
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 07:25:48 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 9:52:59?AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> > Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Taking out the ignition key usually seems to work when my ( internal combustion-engined) car decides to turn it's cruise control on.
Another woman-designed subsystem...
More likely "programmer designed."
The programmers that I know, mostly male, can type way faster than they can think.
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Taking out the ignition key usually seems to work when my ( internal combustion-engined) car decides to turn it's cruise control on. One has to wonder why the driver didn't try it.
Perhaps Cursitor Doom hasn't had to cope with a modern car yet. Mine is about ten years old, so it isn't all that modern, but it did come with all kinds of programmed bells and whistlesMy ICE car won't allow me to take the key out whilst it's in motion, Bill, and it's 20 years old. This is nothing new. Your car must be a bit like you: peculiar.
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.Perhaps not, but when they do go wrong, the results can be catastrophic because of the huge amount of energy in the battery.
It's curious how Teslas have the propensity to burst into flame then lock all the doors.
I suppose that *could* somehow happen with an ICE car, but I've never heard of such an incident involving one.
And the charging infrastructure just isn't there.
EV sales as a proportion of overall car sales are falling now in the UK and Europe because of all sorts of mounting concerns.
I personally would give EVs another 10 years, so all the issues surrounding them can be ironed out.
I for one certainly won't be wasting my money on one any time soon and by the time I am I'll probably be to old to safely get behind a wheel anyway.
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:00:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> >>wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no clutch.
Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained regularly.
Like weekly?
I had a Sprite and a Midget, which were great fun and mechanically awful. All the fluids leaked, including rainwater from above. DGMS on Lucas electrics.
Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in the US.
I could get parts. Lots of them.
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 4:12:33?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:Perhaps not, but when they do go wrong, the results can be catastrophic because of the huge amount of energy in the battery.
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Internal combustion-engined cars have exactly the same amount of energy stored in the petrol tank, and have been invoolved i catastrophic fires since they were first introduced.
It's curious how Teslas have the propensity to burst into flame then lock all the doors.
Ask any source of misleading information and they will repeat this story. It doesn't make it true.
I suppose that *could* somehow happen with an ICE car, but I've never heard of such an incident involving one.
The ICE car industry doesn't pay people to spread that partiuclar bit of misleading misinformation.
And the charging infrastructure just isn't there.
Yet.
EV sales as a proportion of overall car sales are falling now in the UK and Europe because of all sorts of mounting concerns.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/european-car-sales-rise-15-july-evs-up-nearly-61-2023-08-30/
Since they aren't, my only concern is where you got your misinformation. Perhaps you invented it.
I personally would give EVs another 10 years, so all the issues surrounding them can be ironed out.
So now we known what a gullible idiot would do.
I for one certainly won't be wasting my money on one any time soon and by the time I am I'll probably be to old to safely get behind a wheel anyway.
You are driving a twenty-year-old car. Clearly you haven't got any money to waste. If your driving is as confused as your thinking, you shouldn't be allowed to control a shopping trolley, let alone a car.
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 19:34:07 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 10:53:42 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:00:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> >>>>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my >>>>>apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no >>>>>clutch.
Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained >>>>regularly.
Like weekly?
I had a Sprite and a Midget, which were great fun and mechanically
awful. All the fluids leaked, including rainwater from above. DGMS on >>>Lucas electrics.
Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
I could get parts. Lots of them.
I think you'd have had a much, much better experience with a pre-1976*
MG B or possibly a TF. The MGB roadster is highly-regarded. There were
so many of them made they're easy to find for sensible prices and
spares are plentiful. A TF is more pricey but a really classic sports
car with wonderful styling.
* pre '76 'cos after that they had those hideous rubber safety
fenders. Get a chrome bumper model if you can.
The Midget was fun but not a good ski car.
2wd and no place for skis and insane oversteer. Fun to spin if there
were no trees nearby.
We had to turn the heater off when it was really cold, or the engine
would get too cold.
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 20:47:24 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:nothing out there today appeals in the least.
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 4:12:33?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> Ban them!Perhaps not, but when they do go wrong, the results can be catastrophic because of the huge amount of energy in the battery.
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Internal combustion-engined cars have exactly the same amount of energy stored in the petrol tank, and have been invoolved i catastrophic fires since they were first introduced.
It's curious how Teslas have the propensity to burst into flame then lock all the doors.
Ask any source of misleading information and they will repeat this story. It doesn't make it true.
I suppose that *could* somehow happen with an ICE car, but I've never heard of such an incident involving one.
The ICE car industry doesn't pay people to spread that partiuclar bit of misleading misinformation.
And the charging infrastructure just isn't there.
Yet.
EV sales as a proportion of overall car sales are falling now in the UK and Europe because of all sorts of mounting concerns.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/european-car-sales-rise-15-july-evs-up-nearly-61-2023-08-30/
Since they aren't, my only concern is where you got your misinformation. Perhaps you invented it.
I personally would give EVs another 10 years, so all the issues surrounding them can be ironed out.
So now we known what a gullible idiot would do.
I for one certainly won't be wasting my money on one any time soon and by the time I am I'll probably be to old to safely get behind a wheel anyway.
You are driving a twenty-year-old car. Clearly you haven't got any money to waste. If your driving is as confused as your thinking, you shouldn't be allowed to control a shopping trolley, let alone a car.
It's been very well looked after. I have a lot of servicing and maintentance invested in it and I hate to waste anything (shadow of WW2 rationing) so I plan to run it for as long as it can safely keep going. I've been very pleased with it and
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 9:58:23?PM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:nothing out there today appeals in the least.
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 20:47:24 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 4:12:33?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> >> Ban them!Perhaps not, but when they do go wrong, the results can be catastrophic because of the huge amount of energy in the battery.
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Internal combustion-engined cars have exactly the same amount of energy stored in the petrol tank, and have been invoolved i catastrophic fires since they were first introduced.
It's curious how Teslas have the propensity to burst into flame then lock all the doors.
Ask any source of misleading information and they will repeat this story. It doesn't make it true.
I suppose that *could* somehow happen with an ICE car, but I've never heard of such an incident involving one.
The ICE car industry doesn't pay people to spread that partiuclar bit of misleading misinformation.
And the charging infrastructure just isn't there.
Yet.
EV sales as a proportion of overall car sales are falling now in the UK and Europe because of all sorts of mounting concerns.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/european-car-sales-rise-15-july-evs-up-nearly-61-2023-08-30/
Since they aren't, my only concern is where you got your misinformation. Perhaps you invented it.
I personally would give EVs another 10 years, so all the issues surrounding them can be ironed out.
So now we known what a gullible idiot would do.
I for one certainly won't be wasting my money on one any time soon and by the time I am I'll probably be to old to safely get behind a wheel anyway.
You are driving a twenty-year-old car. Clearly you haven't got any money to waste. If your driving is as confused as your thinking, you shouldn't be allowed to control a shopping trolley, let alone a car.
It's been very well looked after. I have a lot of servicing and maintentance invested in it and I hate to waste anything (shadow of WW2 rationing) so I plan to run it for as long as it can safely keep going. I've been very pleased with it and
And you couldn't afford it if it did.
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> >wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to myAre you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no
clutch.
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly. Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:46:55 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 19:34:07 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 10:53:42 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> >>>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:00:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> >>>>>wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my >>>>>>apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no >>>>>>clutch.
Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in >>>>>China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained >>>>>regularly.
Like weekly?
I had a Sprite and a Midget, which were great fun and mechanically >>>>awful. All the fluids leaked, including rainwater from above. DGMS on >>>>Lucas electrics.
Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
I could get parts. Lots of them.
I think you'd have had a much, much better experience with a pre-1976*
MG B or possibly a TF. The MGB roadster is highly-regarded. There were
so many of them made they're easy to find for sensible prices and
spares are plentiful. A TF is more pricey but a really classic sports
car with wonderful styling.
* pre '76 'cos after that they had those hideous rubber safety
fenders. Get a chrome bumper model if you can.
The Midget was fun but not a good ski car.
2wd and no place for skis and insane oversteer. Fun to spin if there
were no trees nearby.
We had to turn the heater off when it was really cold, or the engine
would get too cold.
Dear me, John. Any self-respecting classic car owner knows that's what >radiator blinds are for!
On Sat, 07 Oct 2023 12:00:12 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 13:46:55 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 19:34:07 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 10:53:42 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> wrote: ]
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 18:00:19 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com> wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> wrote:
Was there a thermostat in the radiator loop? Lucas?
Path: not-for-mail
From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2023 11:58:13 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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From: John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2023 08:29:19 -0700
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On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:00:27?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no
clutch.
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly. Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
English automotive design is excellent, it's the manufacturing that's problematic. And that seems to be the case with a lot of UK industry.
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 20:47:24 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 4:12:33?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> Ban them!Perhaps not, but when they do go wrong, the results can be catastrophic because of the huge amount of energy in the battery.
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Internal combustion-engined cars have exactly the same amount of energy stored in the petrol tank, and have been invoolved i catastrophic fires since they were first introduced.
It's curious how Teslas have the propensity to burst into flame then lock all the doors.
Ask any source of misleading information and they will repeat this story. It doesn't make it true.
I suppose that *could* somehow happen with an ICE car, but I've never heard of such an incident involving one.
The ICE car industry doesn't pay people to spread that partiuclar bit of misleading misinformation.
And the charging infrastructure just isn't there.
Yet.
EV sales as a proportion of overall car sales are falling now in the UK and Europe because of all sorts of mounting concerns.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/european-car-sales-rise-15-july-evs-up-nearly-61-2023-08-30/
Since they aren't, my only concern is where you got your misinformation. Perhaps you invented it.
I personally would give EVs another 10 years, so all the issues surrounding them can be ironed out.
So now we known what a gullible idiot would do.
I for one certainly won't be wasting my money on one any time soon and by the time I am I'll probably be to old to safely get behind a wheel anyway.
You are driving a twenty-year-old car. Clearly you haven't got any money to waste. If your driving is as confused as your thinking, you shouldn't be allowed to control a shopping trolley, let alone a car.It's been very well looked after. I have a lot of servicing and
maintentance invested in it and I hate to waste anything (shadow of
WW2 rationing) so I plan to run it for as long as it can safely keep
going. I've been very pleased with it and nothing out there today
appeals in the least.
On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 07:49:40 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:00:27?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> >> >wrote:Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no
clutch.
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly. Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
English automotive design is excellent, it's the manufacturing that's problematic. And that seems to be the case with a lot of UK industry.Fair comment. But you could easily say the same thing about American manufacturing in that same period.
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:00:27 PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> >wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my >apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no >clutch.Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly. Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
English automotive design is excellent, it's the manufacturing that's problematic. And that seems to be the case with a lot of UK industry.
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>
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On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 6:58:23?AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 20:47:24 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 4:12:33?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:It's been very well looked after. I have a lot of servicing and
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> >> Ban them!Perhaps not, but when they do go wrong, the results can be catastrophic because of the huge amount of energy in the battery.
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Internal combustion-engined cars have exactly the same amount of energy stored in the petrol tank, and have been invoolved i catastrophic fires since they were first introduced.
It's curious how Teslas have the propensity to burst into flame then lock all the doors.
Ask any source of misleading information and they will repeat this story. It doesn't make it true.
I suppose that *could* somehow happen with an ICE car, but I've never heard of such an incident involving one.
The ICE car industry doesn't pay people to spread that partiuclar bit of misleading misinformation.
And the charging infrastructure just isn't there.
Yet.
EV sales as a proportion of overall car sales are falling now in the UK and Europe because of all sorts of mounting concerns.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/european-car-sales-rise-15-july-evs-up-nearly-61-2023-08-30/
Since they aren't, my only concern is where you got your misinformation. Perhaps you invented it.
I personally would give EVs another 10 years, so all the issues surrounding them can be ironed out.
So now we known what a gullible idiot would do.
I for one certainly won't be wasting my money on one any time soon and by the time I am I'll probably be to old to safely get behind a wheel anyway.
You are driving a twenty-year-old car. Clearly you haven't got any money to waste. If your driving is as confused as your thinking, you shouldn't be allowed to control a shopping trolley, let alone a car.
maintentance invested in it and I hate to waste anything (shadow of
WW2 rationing) so I plan to run it for as long as it can safely keep
going. I've been very pleased with it and nothing out there today
appeals in the least.
Where will you get gasoline? It's not like gas stations will be staying open for people like you. By 2040 EVs will be over 95% of the cars on the road, which means only 1 in 20 gas stations will be open. Soon after that, it will be none.
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 10:49:45?AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:motivation until the Japanese started eating their lunch because of the reliability problems. The US improved greatly, the British sold their car companies to the real automakers.
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:00:27?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com> >> > >wrote:Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no
clutch.
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly. Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
English automotive design is excellent, it's the manufacturing that's problematic. And that seems to be the case with a lot of UK industry.
British automotive design was terrible pretty much anytime after WWII. They lost the financial base to invest in research. So a 1970 British car was pretty much the same as a 1950 British car. Same for the US, except they had the money, just not the
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From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 18:03:06 +0100
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>
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From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
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On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Rickymotivation until the Japanese started eating their lunch because of the reliability problems. The US improved greatly, the British sold their car companies to the real automakers.
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 10:49:45?AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:00:27?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no
clutch.
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly. Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
English automotive design is excellent, it's the manufacturing that's problematic. And that seems to be the case with a lot of UK industry.
British automotive design was terrible pretty much anytime after WWII. They lost the financial base to invest in research. So a 1970 British car was pretty much the same as a 1950 British car. Same for the US, except they had the money, just not the
The British are fantastic conceptualists. They come up with the most
amazing ideas and designs for various things, but are largely hopeless
at successfully bringing them to market. Many old classic British
cars that were inspired by fabulous concepts never made the grade
until they were retro-re-engineered decades later to finally become
the cars they were *meant* to be back in the day.
On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 17:14:08 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 6:58:23?AM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 20:47:24 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William Sloman
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 4:12:33?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 06:52:54 -0700 (PDT), Anthony William SlomanIt's been very well looked after. I have a lot of servicing and
<bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31?AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:Perhaps not, but when they do go wrong, the results can be catastrophic because of the huge amount of energy in the battery.
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Internal combustion-engined cars have exactly the same amount of energy stored in the petrol tank, and have been invoolved i catastrophic fires since they were first introduced.
It's curious how Teslas have the propensity to burst into flame then lock all the doors.
Ask any source of misleading information and they will repeat this story. It doesn't make it true.
I suppose that *could* somehow happen with an ICE car, but I've never heard of such an incident involving one.
The ICE car industry doesn't pay people to spread that partiuclar bit of misleading misinformation.
And the charging infrastructure just isn't there.
Yet.
EV sales as a proportion of overall car sales are falling now in the UK and Europe because of all sorts of mounting concerns.
https://www.reuters.com/business/autos-transportation/european-car-sales-rise-15-july-evs-up-nearly-61-2023-08-30/
Since they aren't, my only concern is where you got your misinformation. Perhaps you invented it.
I personally would give EVs another 10 years, so all the issues surrounding them can be ironed out.
So now we known what a gullible idiot would do.
I for one certainly won't be wasting my money on one any time soon and by the time I am I'll probably be to old to safely get behind a wheel anyway.
You are driving a twenty-year-old car. Clearly you haven't got any money to waste. If your driving is as confused as your thinking, you shouldn't be allowed to control a shopping trolley, let alone a car.
maintentance invested in it and I hate to waste anything (shadow of
WW2 rationing) so I plan to run it for as long as it can safely keep
going. I've been very pleased with it and nothing out there today
appeals in the least.
Where will you get gasoline? It's not like gas stations will be staying open for people like you. By 2040 EVs will be over 95% of the cars on the road, which means only 1 in 20 gas stations will be open. Soon after that, it will be none.I'll be long dead by then so quite frankly ICGAS.
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:15:09?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:motivation until the Japanese started eating their lunch because of the reliability problems. The US improved greatly, the British sold their car companies to the real automakers.
On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 10:49:45?AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:00:27?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no
clutch.
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly. Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
English automotive design is excellent, it's the manufacturing that's problematic. And that seems to be the case with a lot of UK industry.
British automotive design was terrible pretty much anytime after WWII. They lost the financial base to invest in research. So a 1970 British car was pretty much the same as a 1950 British car. Same for the US, except they had the money, just not the
The British are fantastic conceptualists. They come up with the most
amazing ideas and designs for various things, but are largely hopeless
at successfully bringing them to market. Many old classic British
cars that were inspired by fabulous concepts never made the grade
until they were retro-re-engineered decades later to finally become
the cars they were *meant* to be back in the day.
Such as?
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:15:09?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 10:49:45?AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:00:27?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> > On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com> >> >> > wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>
wrote:
Such as?
Since they're all ICEs and you hate ICEs, I'll save myself the bother of compiling a list you'd only delight in shooting down in flames.
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>
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On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Rickythe motivation until the Japanese started eating their lunch because of the reliability problems. The US improved greatly, the British sold their car companies to the real automakers.
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:15:09?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 10:49:45?AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:00:27?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> > On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com> >> >> > wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no >> >> > >clutch.
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly. Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in >> >> > the US.
English automotive design is excellent, it's the manufacturing that's problematic. And that seems to be the case with a lot of UK industry.
British automotive design was terrible pretty much anytime after WWII. They lost the financial base to invest in research. So a 1970 British car was pretty much the same as a 1950 British car. Same for the US, except they had the money, just not
The British are fantastic conceptualists. They come up with the most
amazing ideas and designs for various things, but are largely hopeless
at successfully bringing them to market. Many old classic British
cars that were inspired by fabulous concepts never made the grade
until they were retro-re-engineered decades later to finally become
the cars they were *meant* to be back in the day.
Such as?Since they're all ICEs and you hate ICEs, I'll save myself the bother
of compiling a list you'd only delight in shooting down in flames.
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>
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From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 22:59:49 +0100
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On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 6:00:00?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:the motivation until the Japanese started eating their lunch because of the reliability problems. The US improved greatly, the British sold their car companies to the real automakers.
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:15:09?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 10:49:45?AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:00:27?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote: >> >> >> > On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com> >> >> >> > wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in
wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my
apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no >> >> >> > >clutch.
China).
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained
regularly. Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in >> >> >> > the US.
English automotive design is excellent, it's the manufacturing that's problematic. And that seems to be the case with a lot of UK industry.
British automotive design was terrible pretty much anytime after WWII. They lost the financial base to invest in research. So a 1970 British car was pretty much the same as a 1950 British car. Same for the US, except they had the money, just not
Since they're all ICEs and you hate ICEs, I'll save myself the botherThe British are fantastic conceptualists. They come up with the most
amazing ideas and designs for various things, but are largely hopeless
at successfully bringing them to market. Many old classic British
cars that were inspired by fabulous concepts never made the grade
until they were retro-re-engineered decades later to finally become
the cars they were *meant* to be back in the day.
Such as?
of compiling a list you'd only delight in shooting down in flames.
That's what I thought. You got nothin'.
On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 12:11:39 -0700 (PDT), Rickythe motivation until the Japanese started eating their lunch because of the reliability problems. The US improved greatly, the British sold their car companies to the real automakers.
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 6:00:00?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:20:36 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Sunday, October 8, 2023 at 1:15:09?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Sat, 7 Oct 2023 17:17:37 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 10:49:45?AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote: >> >> >> On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 1:00:27?PM UTC-4, Cursitor Doom wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 08:12:32 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com>
wrote:
On Fri, 06 Oct 2023 14:12:20 +0100, Cursitor Doom <c...@notformail.com>Are you talking about MGs - or "MGs" (the ones made nowadays in >> >> >> > China).
wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
"MG malfunctioned" is perfectly normal. That's not news.
I wish my MGs would have kept going at 15 MPH.
I did once make it from the top of Mt Tamalpias back home to my >> >> >> > >apartment in San Francisco, across the Golden Gate Bridge, with no
clutch.
Classic MGs rarely give any trouble provided they're maintained >> >> >> > regularly. Perhaps it's harder to get the proper spares for them in
the US.
English automotive design is excellent, it's the manufacturing that's problematic. And that seems to be the case with a lot of UK industry.
British automotive design was terrible pretty much anytime after WWII. They lost the financial base to invest in research. So a 1970 British car was pretty much the same as a 1950 British car. Same for the US, except they had the money, just not
Since they're all ICEs and you hate ICEs, I'll save myself the botherThe British are fantastic conceptualists. They come up with the most >> >> amazing ideas and designs for various things, but are largely hopeless >> >> at successfully bringing them to market. Many old classic British
cars that were inspired by fabulous concepts never made the grade
until they were retro-re-engineered decades later to finally become
the cars they were *meant* to be back in the day.
Such as?
of compiling a list you'd only delight in shooting down in flames.
That's what I thought. You got nothin'.I've got nothing for YOU.
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>
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From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 22:48:26 +0100
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On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 6:52:59 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Saturday, October 7, 2023 at 12:12:31 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
Ban them!
https://tinyurl.com/2cjun8v7
Why not ban Cursitor Doom? There's nothing specific to electric cars that makes them any more prone to have their control systems go haywire than internal combustion-engined cars.
I would MUCH RATHER BAN YOU, who insults and attacks other posters on SED without merit.
On 10/6/2023 1:33 PM, Don Y wrote:
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions:Â "Here, imagine THIS
happening..."]
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
A colleague was designing a video scaler. And the design was almost
ready to head off to the foundry! I pointed out that RS170 video
scaled to a *smaller* image in the "enlarged" setting than in the
"normal" setting. (WTF?)
How did the design get that far along without anyone challenging
it with real-life situations??
On 06/10/2023 21:39, Don Y wrote:
On 10/6/2023 1:33 PM, Don Y wrote:
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions: "Here, imagine THIS
happening..."]
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
I had a reputation for breaking software and being able to guess
situations where there might be weak points. It was something I often
did on Friday afternoons.
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:20:52 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 06/10/2023 21:39, Don Y wrote:
On 10/6/2023 1:33 PM, Don Y wrote:
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions: "Here, imagine THIS
happening..."]
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
I had a reputation for breaking software and being able to guess >situations where there might be weak points. It was something I oftenOne of my jobs is to do that for hardware, to review a design and find
did on Friday afternoons.
where it will break.
Hardware is a lot more expensive to fix than software.
On 06/10/2023 21:39, Don Y wrote:
On 10/6/2023 1:33 PM, Don Y wrote:
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions:Â "Here, imagine THIS happening..."] >>>
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
I had a reputation for breaking software and being able to guess situations where there might be weak points. It was something I often did on Friday afternoons.
A colleague was designing a video scaler. And the design was almost
ready to head off to the foundry! I pointed out that RS170 video
scaled to a *smaller* image in the "enlarged" setting than in the
"normal" setting. (WTF?)
How did the design get that far along without anyone challenging
it with real-life situations??
It is amazing what escapes into the real world. Certain famous brand TVs of a particular era ~10 years ago now had MPEG decoders with one set of coefficients
for the dynamic updates reversed. Amazingly it hardly ever showed up as a problem IRL except on the edges of news desks when the camera panned slowly across and the angle was close to a compass point.
The previously sharp edge would break up into a sawtooth as the camera panned across the scene. The error was made in every 8x8 block. You had to be close enough to see that level of detail before it was obvious. It was never clear to
me if it was an upscaling fault in the SD to HD part or in the final output stage. The effect was much less offensive on HD.
I-frames were correctly decoded and it was only the dynamic movement updates that had a part of the coefficient table scrambled. It slightly showed up on water sports too since small globs of water spray instead of being approximately round would look like stellated icosahedra!
Path: not-for-mail
From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:20:52 +0100
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From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 06:53:43 -0700
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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
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On 10/10/2023 5:20 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 06/10/2023 21:39, Don Y wrote:
On 10/6/2023 1:33 PM, Don Y wrote:
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions: "Here, imagine THIS happening..."] >>>>
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
I had a reputation for breaking software and being able to guess situations >> where there might be weak points. It was something I often did on Friday
afternoons.
I am distressed at how many "obvious" flaws creep into software.
E.g., if you expect something from the user, try hitting
"ENTER" (or equivalent) all by itself. Or, "CLEAR" then "ENTER".
Or, <stuff> followed by "CLEAR" then "ENTER". Do the results differ?
Should they? Do they "make sense"? Amazing how many times an "empty" >buffer/accumulator gets passed as the "entered value"! Or, worse,
an uninitialized buffer (because the developer thought the user was
going to type <stuff>! All this before even *checking* for values
out of limits...
Races are another problem ripe for picking. No, nothing takes
zero time; are you sure the code doesn't silently rely on this?
[Our new oven has many races. It wasn't hard to imagine it
would because the UI controls multiple concurrent processes
for a "human speed" operator/cook!]
As I said, none of these really require any deliberate thought
to "tickle". So, why hadn't they been tested previously?
Contrast that with more aggressive challenges (like unplugging
parts of the system while using it to see how it will react).
Hardware is relatively easy to test -- does it operate IN
a given set of conditions. Software has more "situations"
in which it can be stressed -- because it has to deal with
*sequences*. (Do something out of the expected sequence
and you can tickle a bug; COMPLY with that sequence and
you likely won't!)
"Big Projects" are often decomposed (by some "system architect")
and doled out in smaller chunks to individuals/teams. They
are never shown the whole picture -- because there is no need
for them to be exposed to all of that complexity.
But, as a result, they can't imagine flaws in how their
subassembly will be used. So, they can't comment on flaws in
the specification FOR THEIR SUBASSEMBLY! (E.g., I'm sure
the dweeb who coded the UI in our oven followed everything
to the letter... it wasn't HIS task to deal with how those
concurrent processes would use his UI; shirley, someone
"higher up" would have thought of all that, right?)
Imagine being SHOWN just "your corner" of a schematic
and expected to comment on a flaw in some other portion!
But, the whole "challenge" aspect of the specification
is missing (in formal instruction). Nowadays, there
isn't even a formal specification phase (waterfall)
but, rather, an incremental "No, that's not what we
wanted" approach (agile).
In hardware designs, you worry about not exceeding limits
of any individual component, SOA, thermal effects, etc.
And, can *see* everything in the design (I've worked on
designs with many hundred page schematics but could still
grok the design in its entirety; that's not true for
100 pages of code!)
[Amusingly, this provides lots of opportunities to
*protect* code from theft/alteration as even determined
observers often can't see subtle interrelationships
embedded therein!]
And, if "someone else" has assumed the responsibility for
the design, do *you* take it on yourself to double-check
the dotted i's and crossed t's?
E.g., in the scaler example, below, I only stumbled on the design
flaw because I was trying to understand the algorithm that the
hardware implemented and RS170 is so "off the top of your head"
that it provided obvious parameters to plug into the design:
"Gee, this doesn't make sense..."
Failing to catch it would have cost us another turn of the crank
(about 6 weeks at the foundry) and "a year's salary" -- assuming
we did catch it before release. Software bugs? Considerably
more expensive to find and correct!
[Robotron 2084 was plagued with a "problem" that would manifest
in "enforcer waves": killing them in a corner of the play field
would often cause the game to spontaneously reboot! Not something
that a player would enjoy experiencing: "Crap, I was having a
REALLY good game!" There was a fair bit of discussion as to whether
this was a software bug or a hardware bug (Robotron was the first game
to use a full-custom BLTer that we had designed... was there a
problem in THAT design?). How long do you delay releasing the
game IN A TIME_SENSITIVE MARKET just to resolve this problem?
Do the hardware and software folks have a SAY in that decision??]
A colleague was designing a video scaler. And the design was almost
ready to head off to the foundry! I pointed out that RS170 video
scaled to a *smaller* image in the "enlarged" setting than in the
"normal" setting. (WTF?)
How did the design get that far along without anyone challenging
it with real-life situations??
It is amazing what escapes into the real world. Certain famous brand TVs of a
particular era ~10 years ago now had MPEG decoders with one set of coefficients
for the dynamic updates reversed. Amazingly it hardly ever showed up as a
problem IRL except on the edges of news desks when the camera panned slowly >> across and the angle was close to a compass point.
The previously sharp edge would break up into a sawtooth as the camera panned
across the scene. The error was made in every 8x8 block. You had to be close >> enough to see that level of detail before it was obvious. It was never clear to
me if it was an upscaling fault in the SD to HD part or in the final output >> stage. The effect was much less offensive on HD.
Because the developers didn't have any sample video to run through the >decoder? (Really?? <rolls eyes>)
In big companies, testing is often done by someone other than the
developer. So, you have to hope they know what to look for in
those tests and don't just run through the motions.
When I started using FOSS OSs (almost exactly 30 years ago?),
I would install precompiled "packages" (why spend time building
from source?). I recall installing a prebuilt gnuplot(1).
And, running the COMPREHENSIVE test suite just to see what it
could do. Until I came to a series of CDFs, one of which
wasn't "monotonically increasing to 1.0"! WTF? Shirley the
guy who built this package would have run the test suite...
how could he have NOT seen this error? (Ans: he didn't
understand WHAT he should have seen so didn't recognize that
the test had failed!)
[Thereafter, I took it upon myself to build all packages
from source so *I* could see the messages emitted and
decide which were significant -- the above fault threw
a compiler warning that was apparently ignored!]
I-frames were correctly decoded and it was only the dynamic movement updates >> that had a part of the coefficient table scrambled. It slightly showed up on >> water sports too since small globs of water spray instead of being
approximately round would look like stellated icosahedra!
Presumably, the "output" could be redirected to compare it to
the *expected* output, instead of relying on human eyes to
"notice" these artifacts.
Testing is so often an afterthought. Why wasn't the scaffolding in
place to make this a more robust process?
[The same applies, in spades, to security issues!]
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:20:52 +0100, Martin BrownIt depends on the context. I have read and have written reports that cite statistics that software rework can be more expensive than hardware rework. Studies have shown that removing a software defect during integration or acceptance testing cost
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 06/10/2023 21:39, Don Y wrote:
On 10/6/2023 1:33 PM, Don Y wrote:
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions: "Here, imagine THIS
happening..."]
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
I had a reputation for breaking software and being able to guess >situations where there might be weak points. It was something I oftenOne of my jobs is to do that for hardware, to review a design and find
did on Friday afternoons.
where it will break.
Hardware is a lot more expensive to fix than software.
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 9:54:02?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:anywhere from 50% to 400% removal cost if it was removed early in the development lifecycle, e.g. requirements analysis, architecture analysis. This is a big deal in software-intensive systems where software provides 70%-90% of the functionality.
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:20:52 +0100, Martin BrownIt depends on the context. I have read and have written reports that cite statistics that software rework can be more expensive than hardware rework. Studies have shown that removing a software defect during integration or acceptance testing cost
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 06/10/2023 21:39, Don Y wrote:One of my jobs is to do that for hardware, to review a design and find
On 10/6/2023 1:33 PM, Don Y wrote:
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions: "Here, imagine THIS
happening..."]
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
I had a reputation for breaking software and being able to guess
situations where there might be weak points. It was something I often
did on Friday afternoons.
where it will break.
Hardware is a lot more expensive to fix than software.
It depends on the context. I have read and have written reports that cite statistics that software rework can be more expensive than hardware rework. Studies have shown that removing a software defect during integration or acceptance testing cost anywhere from 50% to 400% removal cost if it was removed early in the development lifecycle, e.g. requirements analysis, architecture analysis. This is a big deal in software-intensive systems where software provides 70%-90% of the functionality.
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: three_jeeps <jjhudak@gmail.com>
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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 15:22:14 -0700
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From: john larkin <jl@650pot.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:05:53 -0700
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On 10/10/2023 5:20 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 06/10/2023 21:39, Don Y wrote:
On 10/6/2023 1:33 PM, Don Y wrote:
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions: "Here, imagine THIS happening..."]
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
I had a reputation for breaking software and being able to guess situations
where there might be weak points. It was something I often did on Friday afternoons.
I am distressed at how many "obvious" flaws creep into software.
On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 4:05:54 AM UTC+11, Don Y wrote:action. In England, engineers call them drop-offs.
On 10/10/2023 5:20 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 06/10/2023 21:39, Don Y wrote:
On 10/6/2023 1:33 PM, Don Y wrote:
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions: "Here, imagine THIS happening..."]
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
I had a reputation for breaking software and being able to guess situations
where there might be weak points. It was something I often did on Friday afternoons.
I am distressed at how many "obvious" flaws creep into software.You may be distressed, but you shouldn't be surprised. Human's make mistakes all the time.
Our internal communications system seems to be noisy. You intend to type one letter but end up typing another - a typo - or intended to say one thing and ended up saying another - a speech error. Psychologists group them all together as errors of
The answer is design reviews. Somebody else has to go through your work in detail, and make sure that it all makes sense.
To make this easy you should go in for modular, heirarchical design, so you end up inspecting lots of small lumps. No multipage functions.
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 12:27:05 -0700 (PDT), three_jeepsanywhere from 50% to 400% removal cost if it was removed early in the development lifecycle, e.g. requirements analysis, architecture analysis. This is a big deal in software-intensive systems where software provides 70%-90% of the functionality.
<jjh...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 9:54:02?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:20:52 +0100, Martin BrownIt depends on the context. I have read and have written reports that cite statistics that software rework can be more expensive than hardware rework. Studies have shown that removing a software defect during integration or acceptance testing cost
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 06/10/2023 21:39, Don Y wrote:One of my jobs is to do that for hardware, to review a design and find
On 10/6/2023 1:33 PM, Don Y wrote:
[I've been given specs with obvious incompatibilities -- that the
author hadn't seen just because he was too close to the problem
and had too many baked in assumptions: "Here, imagine THIS
happening..."]
Sadly, no one teaches folks how to write (and challenge) good
specifications (hardware, software, system). And, few folks have
an interest in developing that skillset.
I had a reputation for breaking software and being able to guess
situations where there might be weak points. It was something I often
did on Friday afternoons.
where it will break.
Hardware is a lot more expensive to fix than software.
I meant that hardware is more expensive to fix in the field. It
requires boxes to be removed and shipped back to the fractory and
reworked and tested and such.
Software, you can just put less-buggy rev 14.31.02b online, or email
it to a customer.
In some products, we can also send them a plugin flash chip or an SD
card.
It's not always that simple; a firmware update, for example, has not only to be supplied to the customer, but has to be applied somehow to all the unassembled
bits that are in the spare parts inventory for warranty repairs. It also might
be the case that a faulty software means half a warehouse of install disks and associated
packaging and documentation need a trip to the shredder.
And then, there's the issue of notifications going out to the concerned parties...
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
From: whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 20:29:29 -0700
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On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 10:05:44 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/10/2023 5:20 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
I-frames were correctly decoded and it was only the dynamic movement updates
that had a part of the coefficient table scrambled. It slightly showed up on
water sports too since small globs of water spray instead of being
approximately round would look like stellated icosahedra!
Presumably, the "output" could be redirected to compare it to
the *expected* output, instead of relying on human eyes to
"notice" these artifacts.
Testing is so often an afterthought. Why wasn't the scaffolding in
place to make this a more robust process?
[The same applies, in spades, to security issues!]
We live in the Dark Ages of computer programming. It's like when
people built cathedrals in the year 900... try it and see if it falls
down.
Sad to say, but few people can program responsibly. They need a
LabView sort of box dragger. With that, a competant admin would create
better programs.
On 10/10/2023 20:05, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 10:05:44 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/10/2023 5:20 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
I-frames were correctly decoded and it was only the dynamic movement updates
that had a part of the coefficient table scrambled. It slightly showed up on
water sports too since small globs of water spray instead of being
approximately round would look like stellated icosahedra!
Presumably, the "output" could be redirected to compare it to
the *expected* output, instead of relying on human eyes to
"notice" these artifacts.
They were quite subtle and only clearly visible on ~50" sets so my guess is that they were tested on much smaller screens where the defects would be hidden
by the limited pixel resolution.
Testing is so often an afterthought. Why wasn't the scaffolding in
place to make this a more robust process?
[The same applies, in spades, to security issues!]
Testing is also pretty much skipped when development overruns (as it almost always does) and the suits tell the engineers to ship it and be damned so that
they get their sales bonuses.
Sadly I have to partially agree with you. Despite vast improvements in the capabilities of modern software tools to detect common human errors much of the
software development process remains stuck in a suck it and see mode. I find the random laying on of casts painful to watch.
It is a bit like medieval cathedral building where if it was still standing after 5 years then it was a good 'un. Ely cathedral and the leaning tower of Pisa being notable edge cases. Medieval cathedral builders were a bit smarter though they left some engineering safety margin in their designs to compensate
for limited knowledge.
There are bright spots here and there where some things are done properly -
there is a lot of good software out there but there is also some truly terrible
stuff.
Even classic structural engineering can make massive balls ups. The shaking footbridge in London is yet again under repair and the walkie talkie building that cooks cars in the street below at certain times of year shows the sorts of
thing that can still go wrong even today.
Labview is OK in its domain but it isn't general enough. Generative AI might be
one way forward if you don't mind having a new sort of bugs.
Nassi-Sneiderman diagrams tried to do just that. Essentially circuit diagrams for software. I actually liked the idea at least for laying out algorithms but
the people who disliked it called them Nasty Spiderman diagrams (and history shows that they won that argument).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassi%E2%80%93Shneiderman_diagram
Still used today in Germany according to Wiki (I didn't know that).
On 10/11/2023 1:45 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
On 10/10/2023 20:05, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 10:05:44 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/10/2023 5:20 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
I-frames were correctly decoded and it was only the dynamic movement updates
that had a part of the coefficient table scrambled. It slightly showed up on
water sports too since small globs of water spray instead of being
approximately round would look like stellated icosahedra!
Presumably, the "output" could be redirected to compare it to
the *expected* output, instead of relying on human eyes to
"notice" these artifacts.
They were quite subtle and only clearly visible on ~50" sets so my guess is >> that they were tested on much smaller screens where the defects would be hidden
by the limited pixel resolution.
Why would the test procedure have, essentially, been "Look at the
screen and verify it looks OK"? That's like saying "Place your
finger on R27 and verify it is not hot".
Note my comments re: my gnuplot experience. Why wouldn't the
test scaffolding have done a bitwise compare of the image
created during the test run vs. the image created at time of
test creation?
This all just speaks of a poor *process* with (likely) no
oversight.
"Did you test the power supply?"
"Sure"
What is NOT being said/asked, there?
Testing is so often an afterthought. Why wasn't the scaffolding in
place to make this a more robust process?
[The same applies, in spades, to security issues!]
Testing is also pretty much skipped when development overruns (as it almost >> always does) and the suits tell the engineers to ship it and be damned so that
they get their sales bonuses.
It's usually not even a formal *step* in the process without overruns!
There is too much /ad hoc/ development happening. Often, because the
people in charge of the process are ignorant of its needs. So, at
nest, they make token superficial attempts at pretending they are
Doing The Right Thing when they're really just adding window dressing.
Can you move to an arbitrary fork in the development and recreate it
as of the date of that fork? Have you captured a snapshot of the complete >source tree at that point in time? Including the build scripts? AND
the build tools? (along with any environment they need to execute)
If not, how can you address a reported anomaly: "We can't reproduce
it, here..." (can you even reproduce the binary that shipped at that
time to be able to examine and challenge the sources?)
Sadly I have to partially agree with you. Despite vast improvements in the >> capabilities of modern software tools to detect common human errors much of the
software development process remains stuck in a suck it and see mode. I find >> the random laying on of casts painful to watch.
Tools can't compensate for bad process. The availability of simulation
tools doesn't improve the quality of hardware designs generated by a >slap-together-app-notes designer.
There's a difference with hardware; one can (usually) see that a
design is being tested/stressed vs. being designed. The activities
and equipment used are different. Software is often tested at
the same workstation that was used to design/develop it. And,
often interspersed with the development process.
On 10/10/2023 20:05, john larkin wrote:
On Tue, 10 Oct 2023 10:05:44 -0700, Don Y
<blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/10/2023 5:20 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
I-frames were correctly decoded and it was only the dynamic movement updates
that had a part of the coefficient table scrambled. It slightly showed up on
water sports too since small globs of water spray instead of being
approximately round would look like stellated icosahedra!
Presumably, the "output" could be redirected to compare it to
the *expected* output, instead of relying on human eyes to
"notice" these artifacts.
They were quite subtle and only clearly visible on ~50" sets so my guess
is that they were tested on much smaller screens where the defects would
be hidden by the limited pixel resolution.
Testing is so often an afterthought. Why wasn't the scaffolding in
place to make this a more robust process?
[The same applies, in spades, to security issues!]
Testing is also pretty much skipped when development overruns (as it
almost always does) and the suits tell the engineers to ship it and be
damned so that they get their sales bonuses.
We live in the Dark Ages of computer programming. It's like when
people built cathedrals in the year 900... try it and see if it falls
down.
+1
Sadly I have to partially agree with you. Despite vast improvements in
the capabilities of modern software tools to detect common human errors
much of the software development process remains stuck in a suck it and
see mode. I find the random laying on of casts painful to watch.
It is a bit like medieval cathedral building where if it was still
standing after 5 years then it was a good 'un. Ely cathedral and the
leaning tower of Pisa being notable edge cases. Medieval cathedral
builders were a bit smarter though they left some engineering safety
margin in their designs to compensate for limited knowledge.
There are bright spots here and there where some things are done
properly - there is a lot of good software out there but there is also
some truly terrible stuff.
Even classic structural engineering can make massive balls ups. The
shaking footbridge in London is yet again under repair and the walkie
talkie building that cooks cars in the street below at certain times of
year shows the sorts of thing that can still go wrong even today.
Sad to say, but few people can program responsibly. They need a
LabView sort of box dragger. With that, a competant admin would create
better programs.
Labview is OK in its domain but it isn't general enough. Generative AI
might be one way forward if you don't mind having a new sort of bugs.
Nassi-Sneiderman diagrams tried to do just that. Essentially circuit
diagrams for software. I actually liked the idea at least for laying out >algorithms but the people who disliked it called them Nasty Spiderman >diagrams (and history shows that they won that argument).
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nassi%E2%80%93Shneiderman_diagram
Still used today in Germany according to Wiki (I didn't know that).
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Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
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On 10/10/2023 8:00 PM, whit3rd wrote:
It's not always that simple; a firmware update, for example, has not only to >> be supplied to the customer, but has to be applied somehow to all the unassembled
bits that are in the spare parts inventory for warranty repairs. It also might
be the case that a faulty software means half a warehouse of install disks and associated
packaging and documentation need a trip to the shredder.
And then, there's the issue of notifications going out to the concerned parties...
There are, also, industries where release engineering involves regulatory >approvals. You're not going to make even TRIVIAL changes to a piece
of software in a medical instrument, gaming device, aero/astronautics, etc. >There are very tangible costs to those "bugs" and to "casual" changes
to systems in which they could present.
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From: john larkin <jl@650pot.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: Another EV goes haywire!
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