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NNTP-Posting-Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2023 23:33:13 +0000
From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Wed, 04 Oct 2023 16:33:13 -0700
Organization: Highland Tech
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https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
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Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
From: Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com>
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On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 7:33:31?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
In front of your house, yes. The stainless steel body is highly reflective, much like a mirror.
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 20:35:50 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 7:33:31?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
In front of your house, yes. The stainless steel body is highly reflective, much like a mirror.No, it's dull and grey and very ugly in its own right. The driver
lives a few houses away and looked at me and really seemed
embarrassed. He works for Tesla and is probably required to drive the monstrosity.
The 3-motor version weighs 8-10K pounds, accelerates at close to 1G,
and costs an estimated $90-100K.
The sales demographics look bad. There aren't enough rich morons.
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 14:42:23 +0000
From: John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 07:42:15 -0700
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Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
From: Eddy Lee <eddy711lee@gmail.com>
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On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 7:42:40?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 20:35:50 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 7:33:31?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:No, it's dull and grey and very ugly in its own right. The driver
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
In front of your house, yes. The stainless steel body is highly reflective, much like a mirror.
lives a few houses away and looked at me and really seemed
embarrassed. He works for Tesla and is probably required to drive the
monstrosity.
Buy him a car cover.
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 16:29:17 +0000
From: John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 09:29:10 -0700
Message-ID: <uuothi56da8eufjcrp51ajfvbun3e0939h@4ax.com>
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https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
On Thu, 5 Oct 2023 07:55:57 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
<eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 7:42:40?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 20:35:50 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 7:33:31?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:No, it's dull and grey and very ugly in its own right. The driver
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
In front of your house, yes. The stainless steel body is highly reflective, much like a mirror.
lives a few houses away and looked at me and really seemed
embarrassed. He works for Tesla and is probably required to drive the
monstrosity.
Buy him a car cover.
He keeps it garaged so it doesn't destroy our real estate values so
much.
On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 7:33:31?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
All that is very much in keeping with everything that useless lifelong bullshit artist does. Wonder why he didn't use his phony solar panels to power it.
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 18:50:50 +0000
From: Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 14:50:50 -0400
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From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Thu, 05 Oct 2023 12:04:30 -0700
Organization: Highland Tech
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There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Thu, 5 Oct 2023 18:05:53 -0700
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On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the (USED) market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle.
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the (USED)
market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle. >>
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business.
They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities, which impose swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many
thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile
detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
'Protecting the Environment'.
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the (USED) >> market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle. >>
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business. They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities, which impose swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
'Protecting the Environment'.
The opposite is the case, here. Newer cars are held to higher emissions standards than older vehicles. And, older vehicles are taxed (annual "registration" fee) considerably less than newer ones. I.e., vanity
("I want to own pretty things!") has an associated cost.
Telling an already underprivileged class of people that they have
been further excluded from the benefits of society is likely a
losing proposition -- one that a populist could easily exploit!
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the (USED) market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle.
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
The advantage ICEs provide is that almost anyone can keep an
older ICE running. How many EE's can keep their EV running
on a shoestring budget (so, how many NON-EEs would be capable?).
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the (USED)
market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle. >>
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business.
They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities, which impose >swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many
thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile
detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
'Protecting the Environment'.
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Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
From: Eddy Lee <eddy711lee@gmail.com>
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From: liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
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Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
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Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
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On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 6:06:11 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the (USED)
market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle. >>
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
There are still plenty of Leaves for $3k to $5k around, if you can live with 30 to 50 miles.
The advantage ICEs provide is that almost anyone can keep an
older ICE running. How many EE's can keep their EV running
on a shoestring budget (so, how many NON-EEs would be capable?).
You don't need to be EE to wire expansion batteries together, just some HV precautions. Fear is the biggest barrier of entry.
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the (USED) >>>> market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle. >>>>
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business. >>> They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities, which impose
swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many
thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile
detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
'Protecting the Environment'.
The opposite is the case, here. Newer cars are held to higher emissions
standards than older vehicles. And, older vehicles are taxed (annual
"registration" fee) considerably less than newer ones. I.e., vanity
("I want to own pretty things!") has an associated cost.
Telling an already underprivileged class of people that they have
been further excluded from the benefits of society is likely a
losing proposition -- one that a populist could easily exploit!
When they extended the CAZ in London recently, 300 CCTV cameras were vandalised. I wish I knew who did it, as I would like to send them a donation.
Path: not-for-mail
From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Fri, 6 Oct 2023 13:26:59 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
On Wed, 04 Oct 2023 16:33:13 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com>
wrote:
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
Quite. And this BBC documentary reveals why EVs will never catch on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCSNCs7bwCw
Path: not-for-mail
From: Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Sat, 07 Oct 2023 12:11:34 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 7:42:40?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 20:35:50 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 7:33:31?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:No, it's dull and grey and very ugly in its own right. The driver
https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
In front of your house, yes. The stainless steel body is highly reflective, much like a mirror.
lives a few houses away and looked at me and really seemed
embarrassed. He works for Tesla and is probably required to drive the
monstrosity.
Buy him a car cover.
The 3-motor version weighs 8-10K pounds, accelerates at close to 1G,
and costs an estimated $90-100K.
He probably got big employee discount.
The sales demographics look bad. There aren't enough rich morons.
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
On Thu, 5 Oct 2023 07:55:57 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
<eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 7:42:40?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 20:35:50 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 7:33:31?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/No, it's dull and grey and very ugly in its own right. The driver
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
In front of your house, yes. The stainless steel body is highly reflective, much like a mirror.
lives a few houses away and looked at me and really seemed
embarrassed. He works for Tesla and is probably required to drive the
monstrosity.
Buy him a car cover.
The 3-motor version weighs 8-10K pounds, accelerates at close to 1G,
and costs an estimated $90-100K.
He probably got big employee discount.
The sales demographics look bad. There aren't enough rich morons.
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
Here It is.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/89zn4irbtkay56iberkqd/Tesla_Truck.jpg?rlkey=qm31onhl68sh1ai4vg4pve31b&raw=1
On 10/7/2023 11:14 PM, John Larkin wrote:
On Thu, 5 Oct 2023 07:55:57 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
<eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 7:42:40?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 20:35:50 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 7:33:31?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/No, it's dull and grey and very ugly in its own right. The driver
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
In front of your house, yes. The stainless steel body is highly reflective, much like a mirror.
lives a few houses away and looked at me and really seemed
embarrassed. He works for Tesla and is probably required to drive the
monstrosity.
Buy him a car cover.
The 3-motor version weighs 8-10K pounds, accelerates at close to 1G,
and costs an estimated $90-100K.
He probably got big employee discount.
The sales demographics look bad. There aren't enough rich morons.
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
Here It is.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/89zn4irbtkay56iberkqd/Tesla_Truck.jpg?rlkey=qm31onhl68sh1ai4vg4pve31b&raw=1
That's ugly^2
Ed
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 17:02:21 +0000
From: John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2023 10:02:20 -0700
Message-ID: <1in5iit4931c3gonhhl59n1dc5haaa20e5@4ax.com>
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From: ehsjr <ehsjr@verizon.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2023 12:24:53 -0400
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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That's ugly^2
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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Sun, 8 Oct 2023 13:08:38 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 10/6/2023 3:13 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste. >>>>The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the
(USED) market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape
together a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a
working vehicle.
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely >>>> depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business. >>> They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities, which impose >>> swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many
thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile
detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
'Protecting the Environment'.
The opposite is the case, here. Newer cars are held to higher emissions >> standards than older vehicles. And, older vehicles are taxed (annual
"registration" fee) considerably less than newer ones. I.e., vanity
("I want to own pretty things!") has an associated cost.
Telling an already underprivileged class of people that they have
been further excluded from the benefits of society is likely a
losing proposition -- one that a populist could easily exploit!
When they extended the CAZ in London recently, 300 CCTV cameras were vandalised. I wish I knew who did it, as I would like to send them a donation.
The cameras are an enforcement mechanism? Are "permitted vehicles"
tagged, in some (visible) way? Or, is it just the physical size of the vehicle that is the indicator?
On Thu, 5 Oct 2023 07:55:57 -0700 (PDT), Eddy Lee
<eddy711lee@gmail.com> wrote:
On Thursday, October 5, 2023 at 7:42:40?AM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
On Wed, 4 Oct 2023 20:35:50 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
<gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 7:33:31?PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote: >>>>> https://cowboystatedaily.com/2023/09/30/largest-ev-charging-station-in-the-world-uses-diesel-powered-generators/No, it's dull and grey and very ugly in its own right. The driver
And I saw a Tesla stainless steel pickup drive by my house this
morning. It is bizarre and incredibly ugly.
In front of your house, yes. The stainless steel body is highly reflective, much like a mirror.
lives a few houses away and looked at me and really seemed
embarrassed. He works for Tesla and is probably required to drive the
monstrosity.
Buy him a car cover.
The 3-motor version weighs 8-10K pounds, accelerates at close to 1G,
and costs an estimated $90-100K.
He probably got big employee discount.
The sales demographics look bad. There aren't enough rich morons.
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
Here It is.
https://www.dropbox.com/scl/fi/89zn4irbtkay56iberkqd/Truck.jpg?rlkey=qm31onhl68sh1ai4vg4pve31b&raw=1
When they extended the CAZ in London recently, 300 CCTV cameras were
vandalised. I wish I knew who did it, as I would like to send them a
donation.
The cameras are an enforcement mechanism? Are "permitted vehicles"
tagged, in some (visible) way? Or, is it just the physical size of the
vehicle that is the indicator?
They have access to data linked to your number place [licence plate].
They recently tried to prosecute a motorist for driving in a bus lane.
It turned out that he had never visited the area but the photograph
they sent him as 'proof' showed a woman walking along the footpath with
a logo on her T-shirt that the camera had mistakenly recognised as a car number plate.
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From: liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 12:32:08 +0100
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From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 05:39:16 -0700
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From: Jeff Layman <Jeff@invalid.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 13:01:25 +0100
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Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 3:13 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste. >> >>>>The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the
(USED) market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape
together a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a
working vehicle.
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely >> >>>> depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business. >> >>> They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities, which impose >> >>> swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many
thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile
detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
'Protecting the Environment'.
The opposite is the case, here. Newer cars are held to higher emissions >> >> standards than older vehicles. And, older vehicles are taxed (annual
"registration" fee) considerably less than newer ones. I.e., vanity
("I want to own pretty things!") has an associated cost.
Telling an already underprivileged class of people that they have
been further excluded from the benefits of society is likely a
losing proposition -- one that a populist could easily exploit!
When they extended the CAZ in London recently, 300 CCTV cameras were
vandalised. I wish I knew who did it, as I would like to send them a
donation.
The cameras are an enforcement mechanism? Are "permitted vehicles"
tagged, in some (visible) way? Or, is it just the physical size of the
vehicle that is the indicator?
They have access to data linked to your number place [licence plate].
They recently tried to prosecute a motorist for driving in a bus lane.
It turned out that he had never visited the area but the photograph
they sent him as 'proof' showed a woman walking along the footpath with
a logo on her T-shirt that the camera had mistakenly recognised as a car >number plate.
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the (USED)
market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle. >>
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business.
They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities, which impose >swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many
thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile
detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
'Protecting the Environment'.
On 10/9/2023 4:32 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
When they extended the CAZ in London recently, 300 CCTV cameras were
vandalised. I wish I knew who did it, as I would like to send them a
donation.
The cameras are an enforcement mechanism? Are "permitted vehicles"
tagged, in some (visible) way? Or, is it just the physical size of the
vehicle that is the indicator?
They have access to data linked to your number place [licence plate].
So, one can't just "recognize" if a particular vehicle is out-of-place
or not?
They recently tried to prosecute a motorist for driving in a bus lane.
It turned out that he had never visited the area but the photograph
they sent him as 'proof' showed a woman walking along the footpath with
a logo on her T-shirt that the camera had mistakenly recognised as a car
number plate.
Too funny! You'd think they could at least verify they were
looking at a VEHICLE before trying to identify a plate!
Perhaps it might be amusing to start selling (gifting?) T-shirts
with images of license plates, front and rear?? Like the plates of
your favorite MPs? (Or, the neighbor that you strongly dislike!)
On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 12:32:08 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 3:13 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste. >> >>>>The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the
(USED) market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape
together a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a
working vehicle.
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely >> >>>> depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of
business. They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities,
which impose swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles
(older diesels that have paid off their construction costs and are
still good for many thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy
commercials do multi-mile detours through minor roads. This is all
done in the name of 'Protecting the Environment'.
The opposite is the case, here. Newer cars are held to higher
emissions standards than older vehicles. And, older vehicles are
taxed (annual "registration" fee) considerably less than newer ones.
I.e., vanity ("I want to own pretty things!") has an associated
cost.
Telling an already underprivileged class of people that they have
been further excluded from the benefits of society is likely a
losing proposition -- one that a populist could easily exploit!
When they extended the CAZ in London recently, 300 CCTV cameras were
vandalised. I wish I knew who did it, as I would like to send them a
donation.
The cameras are an enforcement mechanism? Are "permitted vehicles"
tagged, in some (visible) way? Or, is it just the physical size of the
vehicle that is the indicator?
They have access to data linked to your number place [licence plate].
They recently tried to prosecute a motorist for driving in a bus lane.
It turned out that he had never visited the area but the photograph
they sent him as 'proof' showed a woman walking along the footpath with
a logo on her T-shirt that the camera had mistakenly recognised as a car >number plate.
It's all about money. Income and VAT taxes just aren't enough. There's
never enough.
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From: jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 20:39:20 +0200
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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From: liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham)
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 21:00:15 +0100
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 15:18:38 +0000
From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 08:18:37 -0700
Organization: Highland Tech
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On 2023-10-09 14:39, Don Y wrote:
On 10/9/2023 4:32 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
When they extended the CAZ in London recently, 300 CCTV cameras were >>>>> vandalised. I wish I knew who did it, as I would like to send them a >>>>> donation.
The cameras are an enforcement mechanism? Are "permitted vehicles"
tagged, in some (visible) way? Or, is it just the physical size of the >>>> vehicle that is the indicator?
They have access to data linked to your number place [licence plate].
So, one can't just "recognize" if a particular vehicle is out-of-place
or not?
They recently tried to prosecute a motorist for driving in a bus lane.
It turned out that he had never visited the area but the photograph
they sent him as 'proof' showed a woman walking along the footpath with
a logo on her T-shirt that the camera had mistakenly recognised as a car >>> number plate.
Too funny! You'd think they could at least verify they were
looking at a VEHICLE before trying to identify a plate!
Perhaps it might be amusing to start selling (gifting?) T-shirts
with images of license plates, front and rear?? Like the plates of
your favorite MPs? (Or, the neighbor that you strongly dislike!)
You don't understand how government works. They'll just make that
illegal in a hurry.
There's going to be a lot less coming in from the fuel tax when people
start using electric cars - unless the government has thought of a way
of separating out and taxing the electricity used to recharge them.
It amuses me when people in the UK say how much cheaper their electric
car is to run - without realising that they aren't paying tax on the
fuel ...YET!
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 12:32:08 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 3:13 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the
(USED) market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape
together a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a >> >> >>>> working vehicle.
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used" >> >> >>>> (i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of
business. They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities, >> >> >>> which impose swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles
(older diesels that have paid off their construction costs and are
still good for many thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy
commercials do multi-mile detours through minor roads. This is all >> >> >>> done in the name of 'Protecting the Environment'.
The opposite is the case, here. Newer cars are held to higher
emissions standards than older vehicles. And, older vehicles are
taxed (annual "registration" fee) considerably less than newer ones. >> >> >> I.e., vanity ("I want to own pretty things!") has an associated
cost.
Telling an already underprivileged class of people that they have
been further excluded from the benefits of society is likely a
losing proposition -- one that a populist could easily exploit!
When they extended the CAZ in London recently, 300 CCTV cameras were
vandalised. I wish I knew who did it, as I would like to send them a >> >> > donation.
The cameras are an enforcement mechanism? Are "permitted vehicles"
tagged, in some (visible) way? Or, is it just the physical size of the >> >> vehicle that is the indicator?
They have access to data linked to your number place [licence plate].
They recently tried to prosecute a motorist for driving in a bus lane.
It turned out that he had never visited the area but the photograph
they sent him as 'proof' showed a woman walking along the footpath with
a logo on her T-shirt that the camera had mistakenly recognised as a car
number plate.
It's all about money. Income and VAT taxes just aren't enough. There's
never enough.
There's going to be a lot less coming in from the fuel tax when people
start using electric cars - unless the government has thought of a way
of separating out and taxing the electricity used to recharge them.
On 10/9/2023 1:00 PM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
There's going to be a lot less coming in from the fuel tax when people start using electric cars - unless the government has thought of a wayYou will likely have your odometer checked with each annual registration period (and time of sale) and taxed on the miles traveled since the last such appraisal. Someone will determine what the "average" number of
of separating out and taxing the electricity used to recharge them.
miles traveled per gallon of gas would be and convert your miles traveled into "equivalent gallons of gas". So, the fanbois who think ICEs are so incredibly (fuel) inefficient will squeal when the gummit declares
each *20* miles of travel equates to a gallon of fuel and taxes you accordingly ("We have a new pay-over-time plan for those of you who
can't afford to make that payment all at once!" :>)
It amuses me when people in the UK say how much cheaper their electricHere, the fuel is just an indirect measure of *road* use. Likewise,
car is to run - without realising that they aren't paying tax on the
fuel ...YET!
tires are taxed to reflect how much you are using the roadways
(if you need to buy tires frequently, then you must be using more than
your fair share of the roads...)
Wait until there are calls for curbside chargers, chargers in parking garages, etc. and the non-EV drivers lobby that THEY shouldn't have to subsidize these things. There'll be charging kiosks and, if they
aren't used enough to pay for their installation and maintenance (penny-pinching EV-ers), then they'll just no be available!
Meanwhile, there will be gas stations on every street corner
(gummit estimates *60%* of vehicle SALES will be ICEs for at least
25 more years) that have already been "paid for" without requiring
someone to subsidize their installations.
[chart in <https://www.cnn.com/2023/08/20/cars/electric-cars-sales-gas-cars-dg/index.html>
is interesting in illustrating how even high oil prices
won't lead to the demise of the oil industry. (I've lost the bookmark
to the original study) And, EVs are hugely dependant on policies; an administration that rolls back incentives or finds other ways of altering their perceived costs can make a huge dent in adoption rates. Or, geopolitics
altering the availability of necessary raw materials.]
John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com> wrote:
On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 10:25:16 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the (USED) >> >> market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle.
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business.
They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities, which impose
swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many
thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile
detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
'Protecting the Environment'.
Yeah, what do worker-guys do about the huge downtown vehicle entry
fees? One can't haul construction materials or tools on the
underground.
A friend who lived just outside the edge of the zone tried three
plumbers before he found one that would come to his address. Presmably >residents inside the zone, if they can find a plumber at all, get a
hefty charge slapped on their bill.
Path: not-for-mail
From: Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Mon, 9 Oct 2023 14:28:32 -0700
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 00:45:30 +0000
From: john larkin <jl@650pot.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 17:45:30 -0700
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 02:53:46 +0000
From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 19:53:44 -0700
Organization: Highland Tech
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John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> wrote:
On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 12:32:08 +0100, l...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 3:13 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There's going to be a lot less coming in from the fuel tax when people start using electric cars - unless the government has thought of a wayof separating out and taxing the electricity used to recharge them.
It amuses me when people in the UK say how much cheaper their electric car is to run - without realising that they aren't paying tax on the fuel ...YET!
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 7:02:15 AM UTC+11, Liz Tuddenham wrote:be crunched into a road tax charge. You can throw in congestion charges at the same time, and tell the traffic management system which roads are close to capacity and slowing down.
John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> wrote:<snip>
On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 12:32:08 +0100, l...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 3:13 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There's going to be a lot less coming in from the fuel tax when people start using electric cars - unless the government has thought of a wayof separating out and taxing the electricity used to recharge them.
It amuses me when people in the UK say how much cheaper their electric car is to run - without realising that they aren't paying tax on the fuel ...YET!They probably never will. It would make a lot more sense to charge people for the road miles actually travelled. Stick an mobile phone in the car and let it report when the car is while it is moving, and feed the distance travelled into a data bank to
Add in GPS and you could automate speeding fines as well.
--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 9:32:09 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:to be crunched into a road tax charge. You can throw in congestion charges at the same time, and tell the traffic management system which roads are close to capacity and slowing down.
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 7:02:15 AM UTC+11, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> wrote:<snip>
On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 12:32:08 +0100, l...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 3:13 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There's going to be a lot less coming in from the fuel tax when people start using electric cars - unless the government has thought of a wayof separating out and taxing the electricity used to recharge them.
It amuses me when people in the UK say how much cheaper their electric car is to run - without realising that they aren't paying tax on the fuel ...YET!They probably never will. It would make a lot more sense to charge people for the road miles actually travelled. Stick an mobile phone in the car and let it report when the car is while it is moving, and feed the distance travelled into a data bank
driving the car.Add in GPS and you could automate speeding fines as well.
Here is yet ANOTHER example where Bozo hasn't thought this out at all: a speeding ticket MUST prove that a SPECIFIC person was caught speeding, not that a mobile phone was speeding. Red light cameras take a picture of the driver to prove WHO was
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Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
From: Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com>
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On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 1:19:07 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:to be crunched into a road tax charge. You can throw in congestion charges at the same time, and tell the traffic management system which roads are close to capacity and slowing down.
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 9:32:09 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 7:02:15 AM UTC+11, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> wrote:<snip>
On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 12:32:08 +0100, l...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 3:13 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There's going to be a lot less coming in from the fuel tax when people start using electric cars - unless the government has thought of a wayof separating out and taxing the electricity used to recharge them.
It amuses me when people in the UK say how much cheaper their electric car is to run - without realising that they aren't paying tax on the fuel ...YET!They probably never will. It would make a lot more sense to charge people for the road miles actually travelled. Stick an mobile phone in the car and let it report when the car is while it is moving, and feed the distance travelled into a data bank
driving the car.Add in GPS and you could automate speeding fines as well.
Here is yet ANOTHER example where Bozo hasn't thought this out at all: a speeding ticket MUST prove that a SPECIFIC person was caught speeding, not that a mobile phone was speeding. Red light cameras take a picture of the driver to prove WHO was
It does now. If you automate the system the speeding ticket becomes just one more charge attached to the vehicle, and the registered owner will have to pay it, and may have to recover it from the person who was driving the car at the time. You haven'tthough through the way congestion charges work now.
--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 8:40:16 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:bank to be crunched into a road tax charge. You can throw in congestion charges at the same time, and tell the traffic management system which roads are close to capacity and slowing down.
On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 1:19:07 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
On Monday, October 9, 2023 at 9:32:09 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, October 10, 2023 at 7:02:15 AM UTC+11, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
John Larkin <j...@997PotHill.com> wrote:<snip>
On Mon, 9 Oct 2023 12:32:08 +0100, l...@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid (Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 3:13 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/6/2023 2:25 AM, Liz Tuddenham wrote:
Don Y <blocked...@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There's going to be a lot less coming in from the fuel tax when people start using electric cars - unless the government has thought of a wayof separating out and taxing the electricity used to recharge them.
It amuses me when people in the UK say how much cheaper their electric car is to run - without realising that they aren't paying tax on the fuel ...YET!They probably never will. It would make a lot more sense to charge people for the road miles actually travelled. Stick an mobile phone in the car and let it report when the car is while it is moving, and feed the distance travelled into a data
driving the car.Add in GPS and you could automate speeding fines as well.
Here is yet ANOTHER example where Bozo hasn't thought this out at all: a speeding ticket MUST prove that a SPECIFIC person was caught speeding, not that a mobile phone was speeding. Red light cameras take a picture of the driver to prove WHO was
t though through the way congestion charges work now.It does now. If you automate the system the speeding ticket becomes just one more charge attached to the vehicle, and the registered owner will have to pay it, and may have to recover it from the person who was driving the car at the time. You haven'
The State has to cite a PERSON, not a VEHICLE. This is the way the law works, but you are too ignorant to understand this.
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Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
From: Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: The Tesla Diesel Is Announced
From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
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On Fri, 6 Oct 2023 10:25:16 +0100, liz@poppyrecords.invalid.invalid
(Liz Tuddenham) wrote:
Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
On 10/5/2023 7:55 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are plenty of rich morons in SF, but they got different taste.
The problem with ALL EV sales is there is the "bottom end" of the (USED) >>> market isn't low enough for the sorts of people who scrape together
a few bucks -- and repair favors from friends -- to get a working vehicle. >>>
I see lots of $500 pickups around town with folks trying to eek
out a living -- landscaping, cleaning swimming pools, painting
roofs, etc. -- that would never be able to afford a "heavily used"
(i.e., available for low dollars) EV (what's a functional but largely
depleted battery+vehicle worth?)
In the UK they have found a way of putting those people out of business. >>They have introduced "Clean Air Zones" in several cities, which impose >>swingeing charges on the most efficient vehicles (older diesels that
have paid off their construction costs and are still good for many >>thousands of miles) and make a lot of heavy commercials do multi-mile >>detours through minor roads. This is all done in the name of
'Protecting the Environment'.
Yeah, what do worker-guys do about the huge downtown vehicle entry
fees? One can't haul construction materials or tools on the
underground.
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