• Re: OT Einstein and Curie

    From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Sat Sep 30 09:05:13 2023
    On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:59:29 AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/


    Drama

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sat Sep 30 08:59:00 2023
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jl@997arbor.com on Sun Oct 1 05:49:03 2023
    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p2g5o487uro7vu0549@4ax.com>:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.
    Dark matter searches...,
    I like Le Sage
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation
    and I propose that same particle is also the carrier of EM radiation
    as it seems to have been measured that graffity travels at the speed of light, Simple-city rules.
    Same when Fleming had a current flowing in a vacuum tube, *electrons*.
    Same for relatitvitty, just math crap without a mechanism, will always fail, keeps you stuck.

    Albert E. on his death bed, acknowledged he failed to unite the forces of nature.
    His followers keep science stuck where it is and has been now since his speed was squared or whatever,
    It has become a religious dogma.

    El Pante

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Oct 1 03:01:47 2023
    On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 4:49:12 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p...@4ax.com>:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvity theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    That's where Jan is stuck in the pre-Einstein past. Einstein was happy to warp space to generate the force. No particle required.

    Dark matter searches...,
    I like Le Sage https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation
    and I propose that same particle is also the carrier of EM radiation as it seems to have been measured that gravity travels at the speed of light,
    Simplicity rules.

    And Jan is definitely a bit simple.

    Same when Fleming had a current flowing in a vacuum tube, *electrons*.

    Which we can detect, measure and characterise, unlike Le Sage particles and dark matter.

    Same for relatitvity, just math crap without a mechanism, will always fail, keeps you stuck.

    Just like Newton's theory of gravitation, which failed to predict the precession of the orbit of Mercury - not a total failure, but which was enough to open the door to Einstein. who could.

    Albert E. on his death bed, acknowledged he failed to unite the forces of nature.

    He had. But he'd still got a long way towards the target. A lot further than Le Sage ever did.

    His followers keep science stuck where it is and has been now since his speed was squared or whatever,
    It has become a religious dogma.

    Certainly not a religion, and not really a dogma.

    The Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory is an experimental confirmation of one of Einstein's hypotheses. That's science, not religion.

    Jan's too dumb to understand what's going on.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jeroen@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Oct 1 16:04:37 2023
    On 2023-10-01 07:49, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p2g5o487uro7vu0549@4ax.com>:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.
    Dark matter searches...,
    I like Le Sage
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation
    and I propose that same particle is also the carrier of EM radiation
    as it seems to have been measured that graffity travels at the speed of light,
    Simple-city rules.
    Same when Fleming had a current flowing in a vacuum tube, *electrons*.
    Same for relatitvitty, just math crap without a mechanism, will always fail, keeps you stuck.

    Albert E. on his death bed, acknowledged he failed to unite the forces of nature.
    His followers keep science stuck where it is and has been now since his speed was squared or whatever,
    It has become a religious dogma.

    El Pante


    Not sure Albert even had the time to reach a death bed, given how he
    passed away. But his relativity theory holds up well and is very
    useful. OK, not if you travel by bike, I'll grant you that.

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 1 07:20:38 2023
    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 05:49:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p2g5o487uro7vu0549@4ax.com>:

    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    GPS needs relativistic corrections. And they work.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com on Sun Oct 1 07:18:43 2023
    On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 09:05:13 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 11:59:29?AM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/


    Drama

    And basic decency. And three Nobel prizes.

    It's astonishing how much human and economic and scientific potential
    was (and still is) lost from stupid sexism and racism. One side effect
    of two World Wars was to push women into the workplace and integrate
    the military.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 1 07:29:28 2023
    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 16:04:37 +0200, jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please>
    wrote:

    On 2023-10-01 07:49, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin
    <jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p2g5o487uro7vu0549@4ax.com>:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.
    Dark matter searches...,
    I like Le Sage
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation
    and I propose that same particle is also the carrier of EM radiation
    as it seems to have been measured that graffity travels at the speed of light,
    Simple-city rules.
    Same when Fleming had a current flowing in a vacuum tube, *electrons*.
    Same for relatitvitty, just math crap without a mechanism, will always fail, keeps you stuck.

    Albert E. on his death bed, acknowledged he failed to unite the forces of nature.
    His followers keep science stuck where it is and has been now since his speed was squared or whatever,
    It has become a religious dogma.

    El Pante


    Not sure Albert even had the time to reach a death bed, given how he
    passed away. But his relativity theory holds up well and is very
    useful. OK, not if you travel by bike, I'll grant you that.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Gravity does improve bicycling.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Smiht@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Sun Oct 1 08:31:09 2023
    On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 5:01:52 AM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 4:49:12 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p...@4ax.com>:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvity theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    That's where Jan is stuck in the pre-Einstein past. Einstein was happy to warp space to generate the force. No particle required.
    Dark matter searches...,
    I like Le Sage https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation
    and I propose that same particle is also the carrier of EM radiation as it seems to have been measured that gravity travels at the speed of light,
    Simplicity rules.

    And Jan is definitely a bit simple.
    Same when Fleming had a current flowing in a vacuum tube, *electrons*.
    Which we can detect, measure and characterise, unlike Le Sage particles and dark matter.

    Same for relatitvity, just math crap without a mechanism, will always fail, keeps you stuck.

    Just like Newton's theory of gravitation, which failed to predict the precession of the orbit of Mercury - not a total failure, but which was enough to open the door to Einstein. who could.
    Albert E. on his death bed, acknowledged he failed to unite the forces of nature.
    He had. But he'd still got a long way towards the target. A lot further than Le Sage ever did.
    His followers keep science stuck where it is and has been now since his speed was squared or whatever,
    It has become a religious dogma.
    Certainly not a religion, and not really a dogma.

    The Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory is an experimental confirmation of one of Einstein's hypotheses. That's science, not religion.

    Jan's too dumb to understand what's going on.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    +1

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jeroen@nospam.please on Sun Oct 1 16:29:38 2023
    On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Oct 2023 16:04:37 +0200) it happened jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote in <ufbu9m$1jbnr$1@dont-email.me>:

    On 2023-10-01 07:49, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin
    <jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p2g5o487uro7vu0549@4ax.com>:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.
    Dark matter searches...,
    I like Le Sage
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation
    and I propose that same particle is also the carrier of EM radiation
    as it seems to have been measured that graffity travels at the speed of light,
    Simple-city rules.
    Same when Fleming had a current flowing in a vacuum tube, *electrons*.
    Same for relatitvitty, just math crap without a mechanism, will always fail, keeps you stuck.

    Albert E. on his death bed, acknowledged he failed to unite the forces of nature.
    His followers keep science stuck where it is and has been now since his speed was squared or whatever,
    It has become a religious dogma.

    El Pante


    Not sure Albert even had the time to reach a death bed, given how he
    passed away. But his relativity theory holds up well and is very
    useful. OK, not if you travel by bike, I'll grant you that.

    Jeroen Belleman

    See my reply on thsi subject to John Larkin

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jl@997arbor.com on Sun Oct 1 16:28:24 2023
    On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Oct 2023 07:20:38 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <suvihidg17imkj4ira4eulls99tra3reio@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 05:49:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin >><jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p2g5o487uro7vu0549@4ax.com>:

    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    GPS needs relativistic corrections. And they work.

    Think a moment, forget math,
    in a Le Sage theory the particle 'field strength' is stronger outside earth gravity, as close to earth
    many particles are intercepted by earth.
    When matter gets compressed more then the pendulum gets shorter, and clocks become faster.

    It reminds me, long before the Roman empire the Greek knew that the earth orbited the sun.
    Roman empire took on Christianity to control people and wrote a book how it all began 4000 years ago
    and earth was at the center of everything and the sun and planets orbited the earth.
    Complicated math was created called 'epicycles' that only the best mamaticians of those days could use
    to predict where planets would be at any given time.
    Many years after that empire collapsed earth and planets are now orbiting the sun again,
    and math is simple,
    Put it an other way: Ohms law is like Albert E.'s relatitvitty.
    Fleming's tube showed it was about a particle, and Ohms law broke there at that moment, current in a vacuum!
    Relatitvitty will give the right answer in many cases, but gives no explanation and breaks down in the real world
    and what we really need is _understanding_, not parroting ohms law, as that would have prevented us from having the TV and electronics
    we have now.
    Dogma

    Experiment is needed and a fresh look.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 1 17:55:08 2023
    On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
    wrote:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/


    Thanks for putting OT in the subject line, John. Fred Bloggs take
    note!
    It's truly extraordinary when you compare the achievements of Madam
    Curie with those of the women today whom the Left put up for public
    adoration. All a woman needs today to be venerated is to have a huge
    bum and big tits - oh, and be black, of course. Provided those few,
    simple criteria are met, then adoration by an army of social media
    zombie fans will surely follow. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the
    very essence of 'progressivism' for you!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cursitor Doom@21:1/5 to utube.jocjo@xoxy.net on Sun Oct 1 17:58:52 2023
    On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 08:31:09 -0700 (PDT), John Smiht
    <utube.jocjo@xoxy.net> wrote:

    On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 5:01:52?AM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote: >> On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 4:49:12?PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin >> > <j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p...@4ax.com>:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvity theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    That's where Jan is stuck in the pre-Einstein past. Einstein was happy to warp space to generate the force. No particle required.
    Dark matter searches...,
    I like Le Sage
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation
    and I propose that same particle is also the carrier of EM radiation as it seems to have been measured that gravity travels at the speed of light,
    Simplicity rules.

    And Jan is definitely a bit simple.
    Same when Fleming had a current flowing in a vacuum tube, *electrons*.
    Which we can detect, measure and characterise, unlike Le Sage particles and dark matter.

    Same for relatitvity, just math crap without a mechanism, will always fail, keeps you stuck.

    Just like Newton's theory of gravitation, which failed to predict the precession of the orbit of Mercury - not a total failure, but which was enough to open the door to Einstein. who could.
    Albert E. on his death bed, acknowledged he failed to unite the forces of nature.
    He had. But he'd still got a long way towards the target. A lot further than Le Sage ever did.
    His followers keep science stuck where it is and has been now since his speed was squared or whatever,
    It has become a religious dogma.
    Certainly not a religion, and not really a dogma.

    The Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory is an experimental confirmation of one of Einstein's hypotheses. That's science, not religion.

    Jan's too dumb to understand what's going on.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    +1


    Bill, your latest sock puppet - at least take the trouble to spell its
    last name correctly. It might be more convincing that way. Might be...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jeroen@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Oct 1 20:22:39 2023
    On 2023-10-01 18:55, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
    wrote:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/


    Thanks for putting OT in the subject line, John. Fred Bloggs take
    note!
    It's truly extraordinary when you compare the achievements of Madam
    Curie with those of the women today whom the Left put up for public adoration. All a woman needs today to be venerated is to have a huge
    bum and big tits - oh, and be black, of course. Provided those few,
    simple criteria are met, then adoration by an army of social media
    zombie fans will surely follow. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the
    very essence of 'progressivism' for you!


    Your contribution is truly off topic, indeed.

    However, you can't deny that the work of Einstein and Curie is very
    relevant for today's electronics! (I worked on accelerator instrumentation.
    For me this was a daily concern!)

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 1 11:23:55 2023
    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 16:28:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Oct 2023 07:20:38 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <suvihidg17imkj4ira4eulls99tra3reio@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 05:49:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>><jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p2g5o487uro7vu0549@4ax.com>:

    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    GPS needs relativistic corrections. And they work.

    Think a moment, forget math,
    in a Le Sage theory the particle 'field strength' is stronger outside earth gravity, as close to earth
    many particles are intercepted by earth.
    When matter gets compressed more then the pendulum gets shorter, and clocks become faster.

    It reminds me, long before the Roman empire the Greek knew that the earth orbited the sun.
    Roman empire took on Christianity to control people and wrote a book how it all began 4000 years ago
    and earth was at the center of everything and the sun and planets orbited the earth.
    Complicated math was created called 'epicycles' that only the best mamaticians of those days could use
    to predict where planets would be at any given time.
    Many years after that empire collapsed earth and planets are now orbiting the sun again,
    and math is simple,
    Put it an other way: Ohms law is like Albert E.'s relatitvitty.
    Fleming's tube showed it was about a particle, and Ohms law broke there at that moment, current in a vacuum!
    Relatitvitty will give the right answer in many cases, but gives no explanation and breaks down in the real world
    and what we really need is _understanding_, not parroting ohms law, as that would have prevented us from having the TV and electronics
    we have now.
    Dogma

    Experiment is needed and a fresh look.


    Maybe our universe can't be explained in any intuitive sense. Quantum
    mechanics makes no sense. But it works, so we have to accept it. The
    origin of the universe, or the origin of life, may be forever
    un-knowable.

    Where does relativity break down?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Sun Oct 1 11:29:36 2023
    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 17:55:08 +0100, Cursitor Doom <cd@notformail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
    wrote:

    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/


    Thanks for putting OT in the subject line, John. Fred Bloggs take
    note!
    It's truly extraordinary when you compare the achievements of Madam
    Curie with those of the women today whom the Left put up for public >adoration. All a woman needs today to be venerated is to have a huge
    bum and big tits - oh, and be black, of course. Provided those few,
    simple criteria are met, then adoration by an army of social media
    zombie fans will surely follow. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the
    very essence of 'progressivism' for you!

    The Chinese woman who did my recent surgery is great. I've only seen
    her in a mask, but I suspect she's beautiful too; nothing wrong with
    that.

    My skinny Irish-Italian speech pathologist wife is highly venerated.
    You can have, well, the ones that you prefer.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Oct 1 21:14:31 2023
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 3:28:34 AM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Oct 2023 07:20:38 -0700) it happened John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <suvihidg17imkj4ir...@4ax.com>:
    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 05:49:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> >wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin >><j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p...@4ax.com>:

    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    GPS needs relativistic corrections. And they work.
    Think a moment, forget math,
    in a Le Sage theory the particle 'field strength' is stronger outside earth gravity, as close to earth
    many particles are intercepted by earth.
    When matter gets compressed more then the pendulum gets shorter, and clocks become faster.

    Pity about the other problems with Le Sage's theory.

    It reminds me, long before the Roman empire the Greek knew that the earth orbited the sun.
    Roman empire took on Christianity to control people and wrote a book how it all began 4000 years ago
    and earth was at the center of everything and the sun and planets orbited the earth.

    That was Bishop Usher

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_Ussher

    he post-dates the Roman empire by roughly a thousand years.

    Complicated math was created called 'epicycles' that only the best mamaticians of those days could use
    to predict where planets would be at any given time.

    It's a poor way of modelling an elliptical orbit, but if your observational data is imprecise, it;s close enough.

    Many years after that empire collapsed earth and planets are now orbiting the sun again, and math is simple.

    Math is never simple. Picking the right mathematical model can give you a simple explanation, but getting to the right mathematical model takes a lot of work.
    Kepler made it. Ptolemy settled for epicycles.

    Put it an other way: Ohms law is like Albert E.'s relatitvitty.
    Fleming's tube showed it was about a particle, and Ohms law broke there at that moment, current in a vacuum!

    Ohm wouldn't have applied his law to a tube - there weren't any around when he formulated it, and it kept on working in relevant situations even after cathode-ray tubes had been invented.

    Relatitvity will give the right answer in many cases, but gives no explanation and breaks down in the real world.

    It hasn't broken down anywhere yet. It does come with an explanation - the warping of four dimensional space time - but geriatric Dutch dimbos don't bother thinking about stuff they can't understand

    and what we really need is _understanding_, not parroting ohms law, as that would have prevented us from having the TV and electronics we have now.

    So Jan Panteltje self-identifies as a parrot. He's clearly a bird-brain, but I doubt that he has the plumage to qualify as any kind of parrot

    Dogma

    Experiment is needed and a fresh look.

    And Jan isn't up to either. It would be nice if he understood the experiments that have been done to test and verify relativity, but requires more intelligence than he seems to have.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Sun Oct 1 21:32:26 2023
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 5:24:12 AM UTC+11, John Larkin wrote:
    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 16:28:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Oct 2023 07:20:38 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <suvihidg17imkj4ir...@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 05:49:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> >>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>><j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p...@4ax.com>:

    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    GPS needs relativistic corrections. And they work.

    <snipped Jan's further witterings>

    Maybe our universe can't be explained in any intuitive sense.

    Intuition is mode of perception that our ancestors evolved because they needed it;

    They didn't need to explain the universe so there isn't going to be a intuitive explanation for it

    Quantum mechanics makes no sense. But it works, so we have to accept it. The origin of the universe, or the origin of life, may be forever un-knowable.

    For somebody as persistently and wilfully ignorant as John Larkin, it is bound to be unknowable. He refuses to educate himself about simpler subjects, like the reality of anthropogenic global warming so he's going to pass on the theory of everything, if
    we ever find it.

    Where does relativity break down?

    A good question. If he know more he could mention that it hasn't yet. There is a problem, in that it is not quantised and everything else that we know about in detail seems to be. so it is probably incomplete, but it has passed every test that might have
    falsified it.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Sun Oct 1 21:19:40 2023
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 3:59:00 AM UTC+11, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sun, 1 Oct 2023 08:31:09 -0700 (PDT), John Smiht
    <utube...@xoxy.net> wrote:

    On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 5:01:52?AM UTC-5, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Sunday, October 1, 2023 at 4:49:12?PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin
    <j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p...@4ax.com>:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvity theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    That's where Jan is stuck in the pre-Einstein past. Einstein was happy to warp space to generate the force. No particle required.
    Dark matter searches...,
    I like Le Sage
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation
    and I propose that same particle is also the carrier of EM radiation as it seems to have been measured that gravity travels at the speed of light,
    Simplicity rules.

    And Jan is definitely a bit simple.
    Same when Fleming had a current flowing in a vacuum tube, *electrons*. >> Which we can detect, measure and characterise, unlike Le Sage particles and dark matter.

    Same for relatitvity, just math crap without a mechanism, will always fail, keeps you stuck.

    Just like Newton's theory of gravitation, which failed to predict the precession of the orbit of Mercury - not a total failure, but which was enough to open the door to Einstein. who could.
    Albert E. on his death bed, acknowledged he failed to unite the forces of nature.
    He had. But he'd still got a long way towards the target. A lot further than Le Sage ever did.
    His followers keep science stuck where it is and has been now since his speed was squared or whatever,
    It has become a religious dogma.
    Certainly not a religion, and not really a dogma.

    The Laser Interferometer Gravitational-wave Observatory is an experimental confirmation of one of Einstein's hypotheses. That's science, not religion.

    Jan's too dumb to understand what's going on.

    Bill, your latest sock puppet - at least take the trouble to spell itslast name correctly. It might be more convincing that way. Might be...

    It certainly isn't my sock puppet. Unlike you, I post under my real name - and only under my real name.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jl@997arbor.com on Mon Oct 2 05:25:32 2023
    On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Oct 2023 11:23:55 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <32ejhipiv9mpi6iphvud7kdk85ipfrmoca@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 16:28:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
    wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Oct 2023 07:20:38 -0700) it happened John Larkin >><jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <suvihidg17imkj4ira4eulls99tra3reio@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 05:49:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>><jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p2g5o487uro7vu0549@4ax.com>: >>>>
    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    GPS needs relativistic corrections. And they work.

    Think a moment, forget math,
    in a Le Sage theory the particle 'field strength' is stronger outside earth gravity, as close to earth
    many particles are intercepted by earth.
    When matter gets compressed more then the pendulum gets shorter, and clocks become faster.

    It reminds me, long before the Roman empire the Greek knew that the earth orbited the sun.
    Roman empire took on Christianity to control people and wrote a book how it all began 4000 years ago
    and earth was at the center of everything and the sun and planets orbited the earth.
    Complicated math was created called 'epicycles' that only the best mamaticians of those days could use
    to predict where planets would be at any given time.
    Many years after that empire collapsed earth and planets are now orbiting the sun again,
    and math is simple,
    Put it an other way: Ohms law is like Albert E.'s relatitvitty.
    Fleming's tube showed it was about a particle, and Ohms law broke there at that moment, current in a vacuum!
    Relatitvitty will give the right answer in many cases, but gives no explanation and breaks down in the real world
    and what we really need is _understanding_, not parroting ohms law, as that would have prevented us from having the TV and
    electronics
    we have now.
    Dogma

    Experiment is needed and a fresh look.


    Maybe our universe can't be explained in any intuitive sense. Quantum >mechanics makes no sense. But it works, so we have to accept it. The
    origin of the universe, or the origin of life, may be forever
    un-knowable.

    Where does relativity break down?

    I asked google, it that knows everything ;-) !
    https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/nov/04/relativity-quantum-mechanics-universe-physicists

    Clear difference between Le Sage and a relatitvitty that predicts infinite grafitty also called 'singularities' is
    that in a Le Sage system at some point all particles are intercepted, so gravity has a limit.
    Nature does not know 'infinities' (Panteltje's rule1) something always will break down, give way

    Ohms law knows infinities, 1 V in zero Ohm., that is like Einstein's thinking. We know about electrons, particles, and zero Ohm does not exist and current is quantisized anyways.

    See how simple MATH can delude people?
    MATH is no solution, all it does is describe quantities with incomplete equations in not fully described systems.
    but as 'it is mathematically proved' people are brainwashed to believe it, promoted if they can parrot it.
    But it forever will be an incomplete description of reality.

    Math has a lot of use, you can find out things about nature using math, but we need to understand the mechanisms
    Sometimes we do some experiment and we see a difference from what math told us, that then makes us look for
    new physics, resulting in new mathematical formulas taking into account what we newly found out.
    Newton's math breaks down when applied to observation of stars in galaxies, causing people to look for example dark matter.
    Look up MOND
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Newtonian_dynamics

    Einstein's way of thinking was already defeated by Alan Aspect's experiment long ago:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect%27s_experiment

    So as to prediction, Le Sage predicts a limit to gravity (no singularities), it predicts spectrum widening
    of atomic resonances close to planets (atoms are hit with different energy by LS particles from different sides).
    Time slowing down when going faster, length contraction
    image a balloon filled with air and you moving it, pushing it, the air will make it flatter, 'length contraction'
    Its all simple, you humming beans need to see the mechanism,

    :-)

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  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Oct 1 23:21:42 2023
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 4:25:40 PM UTC+11, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Oct 2023 11:23:55 -0700) it happened John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <32ejhipiv9mpi6iph...@4ax.com>:
    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 16:28:24 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Oct 2023 07:20:38 -0700) it happened John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <suvihidg17imkj4ir...@4ax.com>:
    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 05:49:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <al...@comet.invalid> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>><j...@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p...@4ax.com>:

    <snip>

    Maybe our universe can't be explained in any intuitive sense. Quantum mechanics makes no sense. But it works, so we have to accept it. The origin of the universe, or the origin of life, may be forever un-knowable.

    Where does relativity break down?
    I asked google, it that knows everything ;-) ! https://www.theguardian.com/news/2015/nov/04/relativity-quantum-mechanics-universe-physicists

    What is mainly shows is that English language science journalists don't know much about science. I read the Guardian in England for about twenty years and found sceintific howlers in it every coupe of weeks. I had to read the Volksrant in the
    Netherlands for a bout a decade before I found an obvious mistake.

    Clear difference between Le Sage and a relatitvity that predicts infinite gravity also called 'singularities' is that in a Le Sage system at some point all particles are intercepted, so gravity has a limit.

    A much clearer different is that the Le Sage theory of gravity doesn't work, and relativity does.

    A relativitistic "signularity" isn't an infinity - it just a volume where space is curved enough to be closed in on itself and nothing can escape

    Nature does not know 'infinities' (Panteltje's rule1) something always will break down, give way.

    Jan Panteltje doesn't know what infinity means so his "rule" is just an expression of incomprehension.

    Ohms law knows infinities, 1 V in zero Ohm., that is like Einstein's thinking.

    First find your zero ohm resistor. Super-conductors might appear to qualify but they all stop super-conducting when the circulating current gets high enough to generate a high enough magnetic field to stop then being super-conductors.

    The problem here isn't Einstein's thinking but the defects in Jan Panteltje's thinking.

    We know about electrons, particles, and zero Ohm does not exist and current is quantisized anyways.

    See how simple MATH can delude people?

    Jan is the kind of simple-minded person who gets confused about what mathematics means.

    MATH is no solution, all it does is describe quantities with incomplete equations in not fully described systems.

    The math is fine, but it is just a description of a simplified reality which has been simplified enough to be susceptible to mathematics.

    but as 'it is mathematically proved' people are brainwashed to believe it, promoted if they can parrot it.
    But it forever will be an incomplete description of reality.

    Incomplete, but useful, if you know what you are doing. Jan doesn't.

    Math has a lot of use, you can find out things about nature using math, but we need to understand the mechanisms
    Sometimes we do some experiment and we see a difference from what math told us, that then makes us look for
    new physics, resulting in new mathematical formulas taking into account what we newly found out.

    Usually it makes us look more carefully at our experiment and find what we did wrong.

    Newton's math breaks down when applied to observation of stars in galaxies, causing people to look for example dark matter.

    There's nothing wrong with Newton's math. The problem is that the reality he was modelling was more complicated than he knew. Einstein pointed out that a more complicated model. of reality needed slightly different math which - so far - has worked fine/.

    Look up MOND
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modified_Newtonian_dynamics

    Which doesn't work either.

    Einstein's way of thinking was already defeated by Alan Aspect's experiment long ago:
    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aspect%27s_experiment

    "Later in 1935, Albert Einstein, Boris Podolsky, and Nathan Rosen (E.P.R.) imagined a thought experiment which, if one allowed for entangled states to exist, led to a paradox: either some influence travels faster than light (non-causality), or quantum
    physics is incomplete. None of the two terms of the alternative were admissible at the time, hence the paradox."

    The experiment realised their 1935 thought experiment. This didn't defeat Einstein's way of thinking but rather showed that he had been thinking about a useful question.

    So as to prediction, Le Sage predicts a limit to gravity (no singularities), it predicts spectrum widening
    of atomic resonances close to planets (atoms are hit with different energy by LS particles from different sides).

    Pity about the other stuff it predicts. Le Sage didn't predict the Lorentz transforms, even if you imagine that he could have.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Sage%27s_theory_of_gravitation

    Time slowing down when going faster, length contraction
    image a balloon filled with air and you moving it, pushing it, the air will make it flatter, 'length contraction'
    Its all simple, you human beings need to see the mechanism.

    Simple and wrong.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From a a@21:1/5 to John Smiht on Mon Oct 2 18:03:14 2023
    XPost: free.spam

    The idiot John Smiht <utube.jocjo@xoxy.net> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

    --
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  • From John Smiht@21:1/5 to a a on Mon Oct 2 18:54:50 2023
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 1:03:23 PM UTC-5, a a wrote:
    The idiot John Smiht <utube...@xoxy.net> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

    --
    John Smiht <utube...@xoxy.net> wrote:

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  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Cursitor Doom on Mon Oct 2 22:57:20 2023
    On 10/1/2023 12:55 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700, John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
    wrote:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/


    Thanks for putting OT in the subject line, John. Fred Bloggs take
    note!
    It's truly extraordinary when you compare the achievements of Madam
    Curie with those of the women today whom the Left put up for public adoration. All a woman needs today to be venerated is to have a huge
    bum and big tits - oh, and be black, of course. Provided those few,
    simple criteria are met, then adoration by an army of social media
    zombie fans will surely follow. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the
    very essence of 'progressivism' for you!

    Trump needs to consider hiring some of those big bum black ladies if he
    gets re-elected, the man has an eye for talent:

    <https://www.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Screenshot-2023-09-25-at-11.35.36-AM-680x235.png>

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  • From a a@21:1/5 to John Smiht on Tue Oct 3 03:57:14 2023
    XPost: free.spam

    The arsehole John Smiht <utube.jocjo@xoxy.net> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

    --
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  • From a a@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Oct 3 03:57:32 2023
    XPost: free.spam

    The arsehole bitrex <user@example.net> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

    --
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  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Oct 3 22:09:40 2023
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:57:29 PM UTC-7, bitrex wrote:
    On 10/1/2023 12:55 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com>
    wrote:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/


    Thanks for putting OT in the subject line, John. Fred Bloggs take
    note!
    It's truly extraordinary when you compare the achievements of Madam
    Curie with those of the women today whom the Left put up for public adoration. All a woman needs today to be venerated is to have a huge
    bum and big tits - oh, and be black, of course. Provided those few,
    simple criteria are met, then adoration by an army of social media
    zombie fans will surely follow. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the
    very essence of 'progressivism' for you!
    Trump needs to consider hiring some of those big bum black ladies if he
    gets re-elected, the man has an eye for talent:

    <https://www.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Screenshot-2023-09-25-at-11.35.36-AM-680x235.png>

    Trump hires people that can perform - if they don't he fires them and gets someone that can. He certainly doesn't hire people based on the size of their butts.

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  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Tue Oct 3 23:35:18 2023
    On Wednesday, October 4, 2023 at 4:09:46 PM UTC+11, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, October 2, 2023 at 7:57:29 PM UTC-7, bitrex wrote:
    On 10/1/2023 12:55 PM, Cursitor Doom wrote:
    On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700, John Larkin <j...@997arbor.com> wrote:


    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/


    Thanks for putting OT in the subject line, John. Fred Bloggs take
    note!
    It's truly extraordinary when you compare the achievements of Madam Curie with those of the women today whom the Left put up for public adoration. All a woman needs today to be venerated is to have a huge
    bum and big tits - oh, and be black, of course. Provided those few, simple criteria are met, then adoration by an army of social media zombie fans will surely follow. This, ladies and gentlemen, is the
    very essence of 'progressivism' for you!

    It's all that Cursitor Doom can be bothered to pay any attention to, and presumably all that he has the wit to understand.

    It's telling that he can't name one of these "adored" women. In reality there isn't anybody he could point to, but he lives in his second hand reality, curated for him by the Daily Mail.

    Trump needs to consider hiring some of those big bum black ladies if he gets re-elected, the man has an eye for talent:

    <https://www.counterpunch.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/09/Screenshot-2023-09-25-at-11.35.36-AM-680x235.png>

    Trump hires people that can perform - if they don't he fires them and gets someone that can. He certainly doesn't hire people based on the size of their butts.

    Stormy Daniels excepted.

    Sewage Sweeper has this delusion that Donald Trump values actual skills - when what Trump has always wanted is service of the most menial sort, and he lies through his teeth to get it.

    Sewage Sweeper is depressingly representative of the deplorable fraction of the American electorate who is gullible enough to swallow those lies.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From a a@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Oct 4 15:18:46 2023
    XPost: free.spam

    The arsehole Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

    --
    Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

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    Subject: Re: OT Einstein and Curie
    From: Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com>
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  • From none) (albert@21:1/5 to alien@comet.invalid on Thu Oct 5 12:16:14 2023
    In article <ufc6n9$rbjk$1@solani.org>,
    Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 01 Oct 2023 07:20:38 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <suvihidg17imkj4ira4eulls99tra3reio@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 01 Oct 2023 05:49:03 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid> >>wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:59:00 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>><jl@997arbor.com> wrote in <vchghi54ocb2otq0p2g5o487uro7vu0549@4ax.com>:

    https://www.zmescience.com/feature-post/history-and-humanities/people/albert-einstein-letter-marie-curie/

    Albert E. is much overhyped and his relatitvitty theory is useless without a particle that transmits the forces.

    GPS needs relativistic corrections. And they work.

    Think a moment, forget math,
    in a Le Sage theory the particle 'field strength' is stronger outside earth gravity, as close to earth
    many particles are intercepted by earth.
    When matter gets compressed more then the pendulum gets shorter, and clocks become faster.

    It reminds me, long before the Roman empire the Greek knew that the earth orbited the sun.
    Roman empire took on Christianity to control people and wrote a book how it all began 4000 years ago
    and earth was at the center of everything and the sun and planets orbited the earth.
    Complicated math was created called 'epicycles' that only the best mamaticians of those days could use
    to predict where planets would be at any given time.

    You got to read up upon epicycles, I suggest youtube video's.
    They are practical for actual calculations. A funny application is to approximate cartoon characters with them.

    Many years after that empire collapsed earth and planets are now orbiting the sun again,
    and math is simple,
    Don't for a moment believe that simulating the solar system is simple. Secondary interactions don't go away.
    An advantage of epcicycles is that they are directly related to observations.

    P.S. Einstein got his first claim to fame for explaining Brownian motion. Plenty enough to earn him a Nobel price for physics.

    Groetjes Albert
    --
    Don't praise the day before the evening. One swallow doesn't make spring.
    You must not say "hey" before you have crossed the bridge. Don't sell the
    hide of the bear until you shot it. Better one bird in the hand than ten in
    the air. First gain is a cat spinning. - the Wise from Antrim -

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  • From a a@21:1/5 to albert@cherry. on Thu Oct 5 12:44:16 2023
    XPost: free.spam

    The arsehole albert@cherry.(none) (albert) persisting in being an Off-topic troll...

    --
    albert@cherry.(none) (albert) wrote:

    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
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    Subject: Re: OT Einstein and Curie
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    From: albert@cherry.(none) (albert)
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