Interesting gas sensor -business-
In 2019 I bought a gas sensor, to warn me if cooking gas is leaking.
About 30 USD back then, runs on 12V a wallwart that came with it, and has a VERY LOAD beep if it detects even a slight bit of gas.
So yesterday. while working upstairs with the soldering iron on some audio stuff, I heard a load beeeeeeep
continuous beep.
Thought first it was one of the fire detectors (several in the house),
went downstairs and found that gas detector.
Did not smell any gas though..
Unplugged it, took it outside in the fresh air, powered it, and it beeped again
So looks defective...
Today I was really curious what was wrong with it, checked the 12 V wallwart, was OK, used scope, no ripple.
Opened it up and looked inside at the sensor PCB..
5 or 6 chips, a bridge rectifier, some chips with no number or number removed...
Measured some things. 3.3 V regulator OK, seems all OK, must be the sensor. Then I spotted the microscopic small text on the back:
it says : Buy a new one after 5 years
then in even smaller text
production date 15 5 2018
replacement date 15 5 2023
I looked for a battery backup or if they used a timer.... No.
I think this is crooked, a new one now is about 29 Euro / dollar:
https://www.reichelt.com/de/nl/gasmelder-en-50194-gasalarm-gm-cc-3000-p168047.html
So when I bought it it was already 1 year old!
So I won't play and will use one of these:
https://www.tinytronics.nl/shop/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-4-gas-sensor-module
3 Euro 50 cents
10 times cheaper, will hang it on an ADC channel of some other ethernet connected sensor I build...
https://panteltje.nl/pub/CO_sensor_POE_UDP_PCB_IMG_6203.JPG
still space for a second sensor.
Or maybe I will just integrate that into the existing housing of the old one...
But what a business model?
Sell a new car every few years if your headlights fail?
On 9/26/2023 12:00 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
it says : Buy a new one after 5 yearsJan,
then in even smaller text
production date 15 5 2018
replacement date 15 5 2023
[...]
Gas Testers or Sniffers have an approximate life span of about 7 years depending on manufacture. In the circuitry there is a counter that
when the programmed max is reached the unit QUITS!! DONE!! EXPIRES!!
Interesting gas sensor -business-
In 2019 I bought a gas sensor, to warn me if cooking gas is leaking.
About 30 USD back then, runs on 12V a wallwart that came with it, and has a VERY LOAD beep if it detects even a slight bit of gas.
So yesterday. while working upstairs with the soldering iron on some audio stuff, I heard a load beeeeeeep
continuous beep.
Thought first it was one of the fire detectors (several in the house),
went downstairs and found that gas detector.
Did not smell any gas though..
Unplugged it, took it outside in the fresh air, powered it, and it beeped again
So looks defective...
Today I was really curious what was wrong with it, checked the 12 V wallwart, was OK, used scope, no ripple.
Opened it up and looked inside at the sensor PCB..
5 or 6 chips, a bridge rectifier, some chips with no number or number removed...
Measured some things. 3.3 V regulator OK, seems all OK, must be the sensor. Then I spotted the microscopic small text on the back:
it says : Buy a new one after 5 years
then in even smaller text
production date 15 5 2018
replacement date 15 5 2023
I looked for a battery backup or if they used a timer.... No.
I think this is crooked, a new one now is about 29 Euro / dollar: https://www.reichelt.com/de/nl/gasmelder-en-50194-gasalarm-gm-cc-3000-p168047.html
So when I bought it it was already 1 year old!
So I won't play and will use one of these: https://www.tinytronics.nl/shop/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-4-gas-sensor-module
3 Euro 50 cents
10 times cheaper, will hang it on an ADC channel of some other ethernet connected sensor I build...
https://panteltje.nl/pub/CO_sensor_POE_UDP_PCB_IMG_6203.JPG
still space for a second sensor.
Or maybe I will just integrate that into the existing housing of the old one...
But what a business model?
Sell a new car every few years if your headlights fail?
On 9/26/2023 12:00 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Interesting gas sensor -business-
In 2019 I bought a gas sensor, to warn me if cooking gas is leaking.
About 30 USD back then, runs on 12V a wallwart that came with it, and has a VERY LOAD beep if it detects even a slight bit of
gas.
So yesterday. while working upstairs with the soldering iron on some audio stuff, I heard a load beeeeeeep
continuous beep.
Thought first it was one of the fire detectors (several in the house),
went downstairs and found that gas detector.
Did not smell any gas though..
Unplugged it, took it outside in the fresh air, powered it, and it beeped again
So looks defective...
Today I was really curious what was wrong with it, checked the 12 V wallwart, was OK, used scope, no ripple.
Opened it up and looked inside at the sensor PCB..
5 or 6 chips, a bridge rectifier, some chips with no number or number removed...
Measured some things. 3.3 V regulator OK, seems all OK, must be the sensor. >> Then I spotted the microscopic small text on the back:
it says : Buy a new one after 5 years
then in even smaller text
production date 15 5 2018
replacement date 15 5 2023
I looked for a battery backup or if they used a timer.... No.
I think this is crooked, a new one now is about 29 Euro / dollar:
https://www.reichelt.com/de/nl/gasmelder-en-50194-gasalarm-gm-cc-3000-p168047.html
So when I bought it it was already 1 year old!
So I won't play and will use one of these:
https://www.tinytronics.nl/shop/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-4-gas-sensor-module >> 3 Euro 50 cents
10 times cheaper, will hang it on an ADC channel of some other ethernet connected sensor I build...
https://panteltje.nl/pub/CO_sensor_POE_UDP_PCB_IMG_6203.JPG
still space for a second sensor.
Or maybe I will just integrate that into the existing housing of the old one...
But what a business model?
Sell a new car every few years if your headlights fail?
Jan,
Gas Testers or Sniffers have an approximate life span of about 7 years >depending on manufacture. In the circuitry there is a counter that
when the programmed max is reached the unit QUITS!! DONE!! EXPIRES!!
YUP time to buy another one!!
Have a better day!!
Les
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:00:35 PM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje =
wrote:
Interesting gas sensor -business-a VERY LOAD beep if it detects even a slight bit of gas.
In 2019 I bought a gas sensor, to warn me if cooking gas is leaking.
About 30 USD back then, runs on 12V a wallwart that came with it, and has=
again
So yesterday. while working upstairs with the soldering iron on some audi= >o stuff, I heard a load beeeeeeep
continuous beep.
Thought first it was one of the fire detectors (several in the house),
went downstairs and found that gas detector.
Did not smell any gas though..
Unplugged it, took it outside in the fresh air, powered it, and it beeped=
So looks defective...
Today I was really curious what was wrong with it, checked the 12 V wallw= >art, was OK, used scope, no ripple.
Opened it up and looked inside at the sensor PCB..
5 or 6 chips, a bridge rectifier, some chips with no number or number rem= >oved...
Measured some things. 3.3 V regulator OK, seems all OK, must be the senso= >r.
Then I spotted the microscopic small text on the back:
it says : Buy a new one after 5 years
then in even smaller text
production date 15 5 2018
replacement date 15 5 2023
I looked for a battery backup or if they used a timer.... No.
I think this is crooked, a new one now is about 29 Euro / dollar:
https://www.reichelt.com/de/nl/gasmelder-en-50194-gasalarm-gm-cc-3000-p16= >8047.html
So when I bought it it was already 1 year old!
So I won't play and will use one of these:
https://www.tinytronics.nl/shop/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-4-gas-sensor-module=
3 Euro 50 cents
10 times cheaper, will hang it on an ADC channel of some other ethernet c= >onnected sensor I build...
https://panteltje.nl/pub/CO_sensor_POE_UDP_PCB_IMG_6203.JPG
still space for a second sensor.
Or maybe I will just integrate that into the existing housing of the old = >one...
But what a business model?
Sell a new car every few years if your headlights fail?
What technology do they use? IIRC a lot of gas sensors use some kind hybrid=
JFET with the gate exposed to the gas.
What technology do they use? IIRC a lot of gas sensors use some kind hybrid= >> JFET with the gate exposed to the gas.
See:
https://components101.com/articles/introduction-to-gas-sensors-types-working-and-applications
On a sunny day (Tue, 26 Sep 2023 17:12:28 -0400) it happened ABLE1 ><somebody@nowhere.com> wrote in <%OHQM.170527$_Lv6.47565@fx12.iad>:
On 9/26/2023 12:00 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Interesting gas sensor -business-
In 2019 I bought a gas sensor, to warn me if cooking gas is leaking.
About 30 USD back then, runs on 12V a wallwart that came with it, and has a VERY LOAD beep if it detects even a slight bit of
gas.
So yesterday. while working upstairs with the soldering iron on some audio stuff, I heard a load beeeeeeep
continuous beep.
Thought first it was one of the fire detectors (several in the house),
went downstairs and found that gas detector.
Did not smell any gas though..
Unplugged it, took it outside in the fresh air, powered it, and it beeped again
So looks defective...
Today I was really curious what was wrong with it, checked the 12 V wallwart, was OK, used scope, no ripple.
Opened it up and looked inside at the sensor PCB..
5 or 6 chips, a bridge rectifier, some chips with no number or number removed...
Measured some things. 3.3 V regulator OK, seems all OK, must be the sensor. >>> Then I spotted the microscopic small text on the back:
it says : Buy a new one after 5 years
then in even smaller text
production date 15 5 2018
replacement date 15 5 2023
I looked for a battery backup or if they used a timer.... No.
I think this is crooked, a new one now is about 29 Euro / dollar:
https://www.reichelt.com/de/nl/gasmelder-en-50194-gasalarm-gm-cc-3000-p168047.html
So when I bought it it was already 1 year old!
So I won't play and will use one of these:
https://www.tinytronics.nl/shop/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-4-gas-sensor-module >>> 3 Euro 50 cents
10 times cheaper, will hang it on an ADC channel of some other ethernet connected sensor I build...
https://panteltje.nl/pub/CO_sensor_POE_UDP_PCB_IMG_6203.JPG
still space for a second sensor.
Or maybe I will just integrate that into the existing housing of the old one...
But what a business model?
Sell a new car every few years if your headlights fail?
Jan,
Gas Testers or Sniffers have an approximate life span of about 7 years >>depending on manufacture. In the circuitry there is a counter that
when the programmed max is reached the unit QUITS!! DONE!! EXPIRES!!
YUP time to buy another one!!
Have a better day!!
Les
OK, I figured how they did it I think,
the unmarked chip looks like a PIC micro
Use internal oscillator, drive internal counter, make an x second pulse, >write to 32 bit or more value in EEPROM in the chip,
when 5 years counted switch to self-destruct mode.
Nice piece of electronics made with care (it looks like).
But I do not like the business model,
but advertising with;
'This thing will self-destruct in 5 years'
(to make you buy a new one)
would keep buyers away
I may scope it to see if it really is a PIC maybe later,
long ago I could list those PICs (used to be in TV smart cards)
The self-destruct feature could be used for all sort of things
How about in your cellphone or TV even?
I disagree with that practice, sure for safety in gas detection? Maybe.
User may simply decide not to buy a new detector!!!
So we need some law-enforcement here!!!!
On Wed, 27 Sep 2023 04:59:44 GMT, Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 26 Sep 2023 17:12:28 -0400) it happened ABLE1 >><somebody@nowhere.com> wrote in <%OHQM.170527$_Lv6.47565@fx12.iad>:
On 9/26/2023 12:00 PM, Jan Panteltje wrote:
Interesting gas sensor -business-
In 2019 I bought a gas sensor, to warn me if cooking gas is leaking.
About 30 USD back then, runs on 12V a wallwart that came with it, and has a VERY LOAD beep if it detects even a slight bit
of
gas.
So yesterday. while working upstairs with the soldering iron on some audio stuff, I heard a load beeeeeeep
continuous beep.
Thought first it was one of the fire detectors (several in the house), >>>> went downstairs and found that gas detector.
Did not smell any gas though..
Unplugged it, took it outside in the fresh air, powered it, and it beeped again
So looks defective...
Today I was really curious what was wrong with it, checked the 12 V wallwart, was OK, used scope, no ripple.
Opened it up and looked inside at the sensor PCB..
5 or 6 chips, a bridge rectifier, some chips with no number or number removed...
Measured some things. 3.3 V regulator OK, seems all OK, must be the sensor.
Then I spotted the microscopic small text on the back:
it says : Buy a new one after 5 years
then in even smaller text
production date 15 5 2018
replacement date 15 5 2023
I looked for a battery backup or if they used a timer.... No.
I think this is crooked, a new one now is about 29 Euro / dollar:
https://www.reichelt.com/de/nl/gasmelder-en-50194-gasalarm-gm-cc-3000-p168047.html
So when I bought it it was already 1 year old!
So I won't play and will use one of these:
https://www.tinytronics.nl/shop/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-4-gas-sensor-module
3 Euro 50 cents
10 times cheaper, will hang it on an ADC channel of some other ethernet connected sensor I build...
https://panteltje.nl/pub/CO_sensor_POE_UDP_PCB_IMG_6203.JPG
still space for a second sensor.
Or maybe I will just integrate that into the existing housing of the old one...
But what a business model?
Sell a new car every few years if your headlights fail?
Jan,
Gas Testers or Sniffers have an approximate life span of about 7 years >>>depending on manufacture. In the circuitry there is a counter that
when the programmed max is reached the unit QUITS!! DONE!! EXPIRES!!
YUP time to buy another one!!
Have a better day!!
Les
OK, I figured how they did it I think,
the unmarked chip looks like a PIC micro
Use internal oscillator, drive internal counter, make an x second pulse, >>write to 32 bit or more value in EEPROM in the chip,
when 5 years counted switch to self-destruct mode.
Nice piece of electronics made with care (it looks like).
But I do not like the business model,
but advertising with;
'This thing will self-destruct in 5 years'
(to make you buy a new one)
would keep buyers away
I may scope it to see if it really is a PIC maybe later,
long ago I could list those PICs (used to be in TV smart cards)
The self-destruct feature could be used for all sort of things
How about in your cellphone or TV even?
I disagree with that practice, sure for safety in gas detection? Maybe. >>User may simply decide not to buy a new detector!!!
So we need some law-enforcement here!!!!
No, the sensor itself physically wears out. There is no indication of
wear out, but the sensor element becomes less and less sensitive.
And lithium batteries are good for ten years or so.
So it makes perfect sense to make mass-market safety-related gas
sensors commit suicide after seven years.
Otherwise, they will never be replaced even when totally useless.
On a sunny day (Tue, 26 Sep 2023 15:05:39 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in <b8526826-1f25-44c4...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:00:35 PM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje = >wrote:
Interesting gas sensor -business-a VERY LOAD beep if it detects even a slight bit of gas.
In 2019 I bought a gas sensor, to warn me if cooking gas is leaking.
About 30 USD back then, runs on 12V a wallwart that came with it, and has=
again
So yesterday. while working upstairs with the soldering iron on some audi= >o stuff, I heard a load beeeeeeep
continuous beep.
Thought first it was one of the fire detectors (several in the house),
went downstairs and found that gas detector.
Did not smell any gas though..
Unplugged it, took it outside in the fresh air, powered it, and it beeped=
So looks defective...oved...
Today I was really curious what was wrong with it, checked the 12 V wallw= >art, was OK, used scope, no ripple.
Opened it up and looked inside at the sensor PCB..
5 or 6 chips, a bridge rectifier, some chips with no number or number rem=
Measured some things. 3.3 V regulator OK, seems all OK, must be the senso= >r.
Then I spotted the microscopic small text on the back:
it says : Buy a new one after 5 years
then in even smaller text
production date 15 5 2018
replacement date 15 5 2023
I looked for a battery backup or if they used a timer.... No.
I think this is crooked, a new one now is about 29 Euro / dollar:
https://www.reichelt.com/de/nl/gasmelder-en-50194-gasalarm-gm-cc-3000-p16= >8047.html
So when I bought it it was already 1 year old!
So I won't play and will use one of these:
https://www.tinytronics.nl/shop/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-4-gas-sensor-module=
3 Euro 50 cents
10 times cheaper, will hang it on an ADC channel of some other ethernet c= >onnected sensor I build...
https://panteltje.nl/pub/CO_sensor_POE_UDP_PCB_IMG_6203.JPG
still space for a second sensor.
Or maybe I will just integrate that into the existing housing of the old = >one...
But what a business model?
Sell a new car every few years if your headlights fail?
What technology do they use? IIRC a lot of gas sensors use some kind hybrid=See: https://components101.com/articles/introduction-to-gas-sensors-types-working-and-applications
JFET with the gate exposed to the gas.
On Wednesday, September 27, 2023 at 1:06:10 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje=
wrote:
On a sunny day (Tue, 26 Sep 2023 15:05:39 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred B= >loggsje =
<bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote in
<b8526826-1f25-44c4...@googlegroups.com>:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:00:35 PM UTC-4, Jan Pantelt=
wrote:
Interesting gas sensor -business-a VERY LOAD beep if it detects even a slight bit of gas.
In 2019 I bought a gas sensor, to warn me if cooking gas is leaking.
About 30 USD back then, runs on 12V a wallwart that came with it, and = >has=
o stuff, I heard a load beeeeeeep
So yesterday. while working upstairs with the soldering iron on some a= >udi=
continuous beep.
Thought first it was one of the fire detectors (several in the house),=
See:went downstairs and found that gas detector.again
Did not smell any gas though..
Unplugged it, took it outside in the fresh air, powered it, and it bee= >ped=
So looks defective...art, was OK, used scope, no ripple.
Today I was really curious what was wrong with it, checked the 12 V wa= >llw=
Opened it up and looked inside at the sensor PCB..oved...
5 or 6 chips, a bridge rectifier, some chips with no number or number = >rem=
Measured some things. 3.3 V regulator OK, seems all OK, must be the se= >nso=r.
Then I spotted the microscopic small text on the back:8047.html
it says : Buy a new one after 5 years
then in even smaller text
production date 15 5 2018
replacement date 15 5 2023
I looked for a battery backup or if they used a timer.... No.
I think this is crooked, a new one now is about 29 Euro / dollar:
https://www.reichelt.com/de/nl/gasmelder-en-50194-gasalarm-gm-cc-3000-= >p16=
So when I bought it it was already 1 year old!onnected sensor I build...
So I won't play and will use one of these:
https://www.tinytronics.nl/shop/en/sensors/air/gas/mq-4-gas-sensor-mod= >ule=
3 Euro 50 cents
10 times cheaper, will hang it on an ADC channel of some other etherne= >t c=
https://panteltje.nl/pub/CO_sensor_POE_UDP_PCB_IMG_6203.JPGone...
still space for a second sensor.
Or maybe I will just integrate that into the existing housing of the o= >ld =
But what a business model?
Sell a new car every few years if your headlights fail?
What technology do they use? IIRC a lot of gas sensors use some kind hyb= >rid=
JFET with the gate exposed to the gas.
https://components101.com/articles/introduction-to-gas-sensors-types-work= >ing-and-applications
The way the MOS sensor works is to simply change channel resistance over so= >mething like a 10:1 range. So it's part of simple relaxation oscillator int= >errupting the PIC, or the PIC is detecting a major resistance change some o= >ther simple and cheap way. The sensor lifetime is limited by gas exposure. = >Sometimes, exposure to a high density gas atmosphere will ruin it. In the l= >ong term the sensitivity degrades below spec. The detectors are supposed to=
be changed out every 5 years on average, but they don't mention any of tha=
t in their advertizing.
| Sysop: | Keyop |
|---|---|
| Location: | Huddersfield, West Yorkshire, UK |
| Users: | 300 |
| Nodes: | 16 (2 / 14) |
| Uptime: | 83:47:56 |
| Calls: | 6,716 |
| Files: | 12,247 |
| Messages: | 5,358,205 |
