I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.
On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the >> time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit >> breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.
You've not indicated where you are located.
In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit. In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had 2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit).
Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit
at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit.
OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.
On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.You've not indicated where you are located.
In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit.
In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had
2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit).
Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit
at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit.
OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:56:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.You've not indicated where you are located.
In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit.
In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had
2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit).
Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit.
OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:56:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.You've not indicated where you are located.
In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit.
In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had
2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit). >>
Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit
at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit.
OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.
The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.
On 9/24/2023 3:24 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:56:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.You've not indicated where you are located.
In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit.
In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had
2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit).
Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit >> at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit.
OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.
The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.The "interrupting" current rating indicates the INSTANTANEOUS current level at which the breaker is determined not to fail, catastrophically.
Recall, these are electroMECHANICAL devices so there are finite reaction times involved. During those times, a breaker may have to pass the full short-circuit rating of the panel into it's shorted output. A breaker failing while doing that is A Bad Thing.
So, you select breakers with higher interrupting current levels
than those of the panel as the panel isn't guaranteed to "behave"
at levels above its rating. 22kAIC is a common panel/load center
rating.
One typically wants the fridge on a separate circuit as it won't be a "victim" of a short circuit caused by something else. You'd be
annoyed if the toaster blew a breaker and your food spoiled...
(if the refrigerator is the sole device, then worrying about
food spoilage while the refrigerator is the culprit is sort of
implied)
Microwaves (on counter circuits) tend to cause problems because
they are used "on demand"... you don't think twice about pressing
the START button, regardless of what other appliances you may
have on that circuit. Nuisance trips then become a problem.
Putting it on its own circuit leaves plenty of headroom and
keeps other loads from eating into its resources.
[We have 5 or 6 circuits in our small kitchen -- not counting the oven/stove. We *never* blow breakers, even with electric wok,
toaster, frying pans, microwave, dishwasher, disposal, etc. all
operating simultaneously. Kitchens are the energy hogs in most homes
so ensuring you have an adequate supply *there* is usually prudent]
ss
You should also explore whether or not your branch circuit is GFCI
protected (common for countertops). And, if so, verify that every
connection is tight and secure -- esp if your outlets were wired
"daisy chain". A high-resistance connection can cause nuisance
trips (and outlets regularly see "motion" as plugs are inserted
and withdrawn -- esp if wired with back-stab terminals!)
There are 4 breakers and 3 empty slots in the panel. I guess they really cut corners in this apartment. I might add some more breakers, but making holes for wires is the problem.
On 9/24/2023 4:08 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are 4 breakers and 3 empty slots in the panel. I guess they really cut corners in this apartment. I might add some more breakers, but making holes for wires is the problem.The fact that it would likely get you tossed out of the apartment
might factor into your decision (as it would put the owner's
liability front and center should some OTHER tenant suffer harm
or loss as a result of your actions).
Note that you also need to know how the panel is *fed*
(what ampacity circuit).
And, running cable is not likely to be easy in "old works".
Note that you won't be able to claim "the wires were there"
as the wire will have a date code imprinted on it
every few feet (unless you happen to have some old
wire on hand that predates your occupancy).
Seems considerably easier to just change your usage patterns.
The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 6:24:38 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:The microwave by far draws the most current. It must move the AFCI trip threshold into a new regime that makes it trip if the fridge happens to come on while it's running. California electric code requires all kitchen branch circuits have AFCI protection,
The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.No way will the fridge/ microwave combo trip a 20A breaker. I'm guessing you're misreading 'AIC' for AFC, arc fault circuit interrupter, and that is something that just may trip on the fridge compressor start-up surge or the microwave start-up surge.
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 2:56:51 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.You've not indicated where you are located.
In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit.
In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had
2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit).
Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit.
OTOH, a "22A" circuit wouldn't exist, here.The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.
On 9/24/2023 2:56 PM, Don Y wrote:
On 9/24/2023 12:28 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the
time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit
breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.
You've not indicated where you are located.
In the US, "20A" and "microwave" would suggest a kitchen, countertop circuit.
In which case, there is a *second* such circuit, nearby (if the installer had
2wired it SANELY, the next outlet -- 4 ft away -- would be on that circuit).
Or, if REALLY done well, the microwave wouldn't be on the counter circuit at all and would have its own dedicated branch circuit.It goes without saying that the fridge should always have a dedicated
(i.e., "single outlet") circuit.
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 5:43:06 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/24/2023 4:08 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are 4 breakers and 3 empty slots in the panel. I guess they really cut corners in this apartment. I might add some more breakers, but making holes for wires is the problem.The fact that it would likely get you tossed out of the apartment
might factor into your decision (as it would put the owner's
liability front and center should some OTHER tenant suffer harm
or loss as a result of your actions).
Note that you also need to know how the panel is *fed*
(what ampacity circuit).
And, running cable is not likely to be easy in "old works".
Note that you won't be able to claim "the wires were there"
as the wire will have a date code imprinted on it
every few feet (unless you happen to have some old
wire on hand that predates your occupancy).
Seems considerably easier to just change your usage patterns.
I'll try not to use the electric stove and microwave at the same time, although they are on separate breakers. I'd have to unplug the fridge to use the microwave.
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 7:50:01 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:The microwave by far draws the most current. It must move the AFCI trip threshold into a new regime that makes it trip if the fridge happens to come on while it's running. California electric code requires all kitchen branch circuits have AFCI protection,
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 6:24:38 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.No way will the fridge/ microwave combo trip a 20A breaker. I'm guessing you're misreading 'AIC' for AFC, arc fault circuit interrupter, and that is something that just may trip on the fridge compressor start-up surge or the microwave start-up surge.
It's 22KAIC, but they usually omit the K
https://www.breakerbroker.com/ge-thef113020-used-277v-ge-thef113020-20a-277v-1p-used/
Nothing on the circuit that add up to 20A.
On 9/24/2023 6:35 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 5:43:06 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/24/2023 4:08 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are 4 breakers and 3 empty slots in the panel. I guess they really cut corners in this apartment. I might add some more breakers, but making holes for wires is the problem.The fact that it would likely get you tossed out of the apartment
might factor into your decision (as it would put the owner's
liability front and center should some OTHER tenant suffer harm
or loss as a result of your actions).
Note that you also need to know how the panel is *fed*
(what ampacity circuit).
And, running cable is not likely to be easy in "old works".
Note that you won't be able to claim "the wires were there"
as the wire will have a date code imprinted on it
every few feet (unless you happen to have some old
wire on hand that predates your occupancy).
Seems considerably easier to just change your usage patterns.
I'll try not to use the electric stove and microwave at the same time, although they are on separate breakers. I'd have to unplug the fridge to use the microwave.The Code requires dedicated circuits for these major appliances
precisely to eliminate the nuisances that arise from two or more
of them being used concurrently. When people are "plagued" by
nuisance trips, they look for ways to BYPASS those safety devices
(that are simply doing their jobs; the Code frowns on this sort
of behavior and tries to anticipate it).
[Ever notice how many/few receptacles are on each branch circuit?
Do you really think they expect you to plug vacuum cleaners
into ALL of them??]
Note that there is an EXPLICIT exception that *allows* a fridge
(which is classified as a major appliance and thus requires a
dedicated branch circuit) to be placed on one of the "small
appliance" counter circuits -- but "best practices" (i.e., anyone
who isn't pinching pennies) will always have the fridge on a
15-20A dedicated circuit (of course, an apartment application
could be rationalized as not needing to support a big fridge).
Neighbor complained to me that his fridge would "go off" whenever
he used his microwave oven. His home was wired with the fridge
on the small appliance (counter) circuit. The *9* amps that the
nice *Viking* fridge would draw (peak), when inconveniently timed with
the microwave's sudden use, would promptly take out the counter
circuit.
"Move the microwave elsewhere or get a new DEDICATED branch circuit installed -- like every NEW home!"
[I've heard this complaint (counter breaker tripping) so often that
my stock response is: "Check to see if your refrigerator is on the
same branch circuit" as it almost always is (and appliance salesmen
aren't keen on telling you that you need an electrician to come
out and install a new branch circuit BEFORE they can sell you that
shiny new fridge!)]
Ditto for a freezer, etc.
But, people don't read the Code so don't understand what it tries to anticipate... ("Gee, this only draws X << 20A so I can put it on
the counter circuit!")
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 11:20:37 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:surge. The microwave by far draws the most current. It must move the AFCI trip threshold into a new regime that makes it trip if the fridge happens to come on while it's running. California electric code requires all kitchen branch circuits have AFCI
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 7:50:01 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 6:24:38 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.No way will the fridge/ microwave combo trip a 20A breaker. I'm guessing you're misreading 'AIC' for AFC, arc fault circuit interrupter, and that is something that just may trip on the fridge compressor start-up surge or the microwave start-up
rating on its label. It also works like a conventional breaker as regards over-current.It's 22KAIC, but they usually omit the K
https://www.breakerbroker.com/ge-thef113020-used-277v-ge-thef113020-20a-277v-1p-used/
Nothing on the circuit that add up to 20A.AFCI doesn't trip on current alone. It has some kind of analyzer circuit looking for transients on the wire characteristic of arc-over. When it detects what it thinks is a hazard, it trips, and that can happen at far less current than the current
It's sounding like the uwave/ fridge is a bad combination. You'll need to separate them. Before you go to that trouble, check to see the microwave alone doesn't trip the AFCI. Some appliances are problematic and will do that. A fix for that will beinconvenient.
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 9:00:25 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:surge. The microwave by far draws the most current. It must move the AFCI trip threshold into a new regime that makes it trip if the fridge happens to come on while it's running. California electric code requires all kitchen branch circuits have AFCI
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 11:20:37 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 7:50:01 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 6:24:38 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.No way will the fridge/ microwave combo trip a 20A breaker. I'm guessing you're misreading 'AIC' for AFC, arc fault circuit interrupter, and that is something that just may trip on the fridge compressor start-up surge or the microwave start-up
rating on its label. It also works like a conventional breaker as regards over-current.It's 22KAIC, but they usually omit the K
https://www.breakerbroker.com/ge-thef113020-used-277v-ge-thef113020-20a-277v-1p-used/
Nothing on the circuit that add up to 20A.AFCI doesn't trip on current alone. It has some kind of analyzer circuit looking for transients on the wire characteristic of arc-over. When it detects what it thinks is a hazard, it trips, and that can happen at far less current than the current
inconvenient.It's sounding like the uwave/ fridge is a bad combination. You'll need to separate them. Before you go to that trouble, check to see the microwave alone doesn't trip the AFCI. Some appliances are problematic and will do that. A fix for that will be
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 9:00:25 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:surge. The microwave by far draws the most current. It must move the AFCI trip threshold into a new regime that makes it trip if the fridge happens to come on while it's running. California electric code requires all kitchen branch circuits have AFCI
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 11:20:37 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 7:50:01 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 6:24:38 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.No way will the fridge/ microwave combo trip a 20A breaker. I'm guessing you're misreading 'AIC' for AFC, arc fault circuit interrupter, and that is something that just may trip on the fridge compressor start-up surge or the microwave start-up
rating on its label. It also works like a conventional breaker as regards over-current.It's 22KAIC, but they usually omit the K
https://www.breakerbroker.com/ge-thef113020-used-277v-ge-thef113020-20a-277v-1p-used/
Nothing on the circuit that add up to 20A.AFCI doesn't trip on current alone. It has some kind of analyzer circuit looking for transients on the wire characteristic of arc-over. When it detects what it thinks is a hazard, it trips, and that can happen at far less current than the current
inconvenient.It's sounding like the uwave/ fridge is a bad combination. You'll need to separate them. Before you go to that trouble, check to see the microwave alone doesn't trip the AFCI. Some appliances are problematic and will do that. A fix for that will be
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:05:38 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:surge. The microwave by far draws the most current. It must move the AFCI trip threshold into a new regime that makes it trip if the fridge happens to come on while it's running. California electric code requires all kitchen branch circuits have AFCI
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 9:00:25 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 11:20:37 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 7:50:01 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 6:24:38 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.No way will the fridge/ microwave combo trip a 20A breaker. I'm guessing you're misreading 'AIC' for AFC, arc fault circuit interrupter, and that is something that just may trip on the fridge compressor start-up surge or the microwave start-up
rating on its label. It also works like a conventional breaker as regards over-current.It's 22KAIC, but they usually omit the K
https://www.breakerbroker.com/ge-thef113020-used-277v-ge-thef113020-20a-277v-1p-used/
Nothing on the circuit that add up to 20A.AFCI doesn't trip on current alone. It has some kind of analyzer circuit looking for transients on the wire characteristic of arc-over. When it detects what it thinks is a hazard, it trips, and that can happen at far less current than the current
inconvenient.It's sounding like the uwave/ fridge is a bad combination. You'll need to separate them. Before you go to that trouble, check to see the microwave alone doesn't trip the AFCI. Some appliances are problematic and will do that. A fix for that will be
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.I encountered one oversensitive AFCI that would reliably trip if I just put my 'near' the insulated wire in a fixture. I couldn't believe it but there was no doubt that's what it was doing.
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:19:04 AM UTC-5, Fred Bloggs wrote:up surge. The microwave by far draws the most current. It must move the AFCI trip threshold into a new regime that makes it trip if the fridge happens to come on while it's running. California electric code requires all kitchen branch circuits have AFCI
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:05:38 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 9:00:25 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 11:20:37 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 7:50:01 PM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 6:24:38 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
The have two version of 20A breaker, 10AIC and 22AIC. I guess I don't really know what they mean. It's plug-in microwave and fridge on the same circuit.No way will the fridge/ microwave combo trip a 20A breaker. I'm guessing you're misreading 'AIC' for AFC, arc fault circuit interrupter, and that is something that just may trip on the fridge compressor start-up surge or the microwave start-
rating on its label. It also works like a conventional breaker as regards over-current.It's 22KAIC, but they usually omit the K
https://www.breakerbroker.com/ge-thef113020-used-277v-ge-thef113020-20a-277v-1p-used/
Nothing on the circuit that add up to 20A.AFCI doesn't trip on current alone. It has some kind of analyzer circuit looking for transients on the wire characteristic of arc-over. When it detects what it thinks is a hazard, it trips, and that can happen at far less current than the current
be inconvenient.It's sounding like the uwave/ fridge is a bad combination. You'll need to separate them. Before you go to that trouble, check to see the microwave alone doesn't trip the AFCI. Some appliances are problematic and will do that. A fix for that will
What is your 'near'?If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.I encountered one oversensitive AFCI that would reliably trip if I just put my 'near' the insulated wire in a fixture. I couldn't believe it but there was no doubt that's what it was doing.
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 6:32:24 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
On 9/24/2023 6:35 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 5:43:06 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:The Code requires dedicated circuits for these major appliances
On 9/24/2023 4:08 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are 4 breakers and 3 empty slots in the panel. I guess they really cut corners in this apartment. I might add some more breakers, but making holes for wires is the problem.The fact that it would likely get you tossed out of the apartment
might factor into your decision (as it would put the owner's
liability front and center should some OTHER tenant suffer harm
or loss as a result of your actions).
Note that you also need to know how the panel is *fed*
(what ampacity circuit).
And, running cable is not likely to be easy in "old works".
Note that you won't be able to claim "the wires were there"
as the wire will have a date code imprinted on it
every few feet (unless you happen to have some old
wire on hand that predates your occupancy).
Seems considerably easier to just change your usage patterns.
I'll try not to use the electric stove and microwave at the same time, although they are on separate breakers. I'd have to unplug the fridge to use the microwave.
precisely to eliminate the nuisances that arise from two or more
of them being used concurrently. When people are "plagued" by
nuisance trips, they look for ways to BYPASS those safety devices
(that are simply doing their jobs; the Code frowns on this sort
of behavior and tries to anticipate it).
[Ever notice how many/few receptacles are on each branch circuit?
Do you really think they expect you to plug vacuum cleaners
into ALL of them??]
Note that there is an EXPLICIT exception that *allows* a fridge
(which is classified as a major appliance and thus requires a
dedicated branch circuit) to be placed on one of the "small
appliance" counter circuits -- but "best practices" (i.e., anyone
who isn't pinching pennies) will always have the fridge on a
15-20A dedicated circuit (of course, an apartment application
could be rationalized as not needing to support a big fridge).
Neighbor complained to me that his fridge would "go off" whenever
he used his microwave oven. His home was wired with the fridge
on the small appliance (counter) circuit. The *9* amps that the
nice *Viking* fridge would draw (peak), when inconveniently timed with
the microwave's sudden use, would promptly take out the counter
circuit.
"Move the microwave elsewhere or get a new DEDICATED branch circuit
installed -- like every NEW home!"
[I've heard this complaint (counter breaker tripping) so often that
my stock response is: "Check to see if your refrigerator is on the
same branch circuit" as it almost always is (and appliance salesmen
aren't keen on telling you that you need an electrician to come
out and install a new branch circuit BEFORE they can sell you that
shiny new fridge!)]
Ditto for a freezer, etc.
But, people don't read the Code so don't understand what it tries to
anticipate... ("Gee, this only draws X << 20A so I can put it on
the counter circuit!")
None of that advice applies to the California Electric Code (CEC). All branch circuits into the kitchen are required to have AFCI protection without exception.
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit
thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit
thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
No dishwasher or coffee pot.
[Anyone who has lived in a dorm room can appreciate "active
power management"! :-( ]
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit
thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
No dishwasher or coffee pot.
In article <uesltr$22gfl$2...@dont-email.me>, blocked...@foo.invalid
says...
[Anyone who has lived in a dorm room can appreciate "active
power management"! :-( ]
When my son was in a dorm room he could rent what they called a 'microfrige'. It was a microwave on top of a small refrigerator. I
would assume it was set up so both of them were not drawing power at the same time. Due to the cost of the rent we decided just to buy a
microwave an small refrigerator.
In article <uesltr$22gfl$2@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid says...
[Anyone who has lived in a dorm room can appreciate "active
power management"! :-( ]
When my son was in a dorm room he could rent what they called a
'microfrige'. It was a microwave on top of a small refrigerator. I
would assume it was set up so both of them were not drawing power at the
same time. Due to the cost of the rent we decided just to buy a
microwave an small refrigerator.
On 9/25/2023 12:34 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <uesltr$22gfl$2...@dont-email.me>, blocked...@foo.invalid says...
[Anyone who has lived in a dorm room can appreciate "active
power management"! :-( ]
When my son was in a dorm room he could rent what they called a 'microfrige'. It was a microwave on top of a small refrigerator. INo microwaves when I was in school. But, our kitchen had a
would assume it was set up so both of them were not drawing power at the same time. Due to the cost of the rent we decided just to buy a
microwave an small refrigerator.
(laughably) small refrigerator. Silly considering college kids
likely used the fridge more than the stove (oven? what's THAT??)
I'm not sure how much "smarts" I would read into a combination
product's design. It may literally be little more than a
simple repackaging of two *independant* products into a more
convenient form factor.
E.g., our fridge has three evaporators but one compressor.
I wouldn't be surprised if the control algorithm was much
more than:
if (any zone calls for cooling)
compressor(on)
(where compressor() had buried state that included a timer
since last activation)
Too often, control algorithms are naive and live entirely
in the moment. E.g., your irrigation system *may* cut back
on water use if it detects that it has rained, recently.
*BUT*, will gleefully water your flora despite the
growing storm clouds overhead! (isn't watering just BEFORE
a rain as wasteful as just after?)
Sad that so many products don't "open" their implementations
as I'm sure there are lots of optimizations that are possible
with multiple eyes/criteria looking at a problem!
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit
thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
No dishwasher or coffee pot.
mandag den 25. september 2023 kl. 22.07.41 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
On 9/25/2023 12:34 PM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
In article <uesltr$22gfl$2...@dont-email.me>, blocked...@foo.invalidNo microwaves when I was in school. But, our kitchen had a
says...
[Anyone who has lived in a dorm room can appreciate "active
power management"! :-( ]
When my son was in a dorm room he could rent what they called a
'microfrige'. It was a microwave on top of a small refrigerator. I
would assume it was set up so both of them were not drawing power at the >>> same time. Due to the cost of the rent we decided just to buy a
microwave an small refrigerator.
(laughably) small refrigerator. Silly considering college kids
likely used the fridge more than the stove (oven? what's THAT??)
I'm not sure how much "smarts" I would read into a combination
product's design. It may literally be little more than a
simple repackaging of two *independant* products into a more
convenient form factor.
E.g., our fridge has three evaporators but one compressor.
I wouldn't be surprised if the control algorithm was much
more than:
if (any zone calls for cooling)
compressor(on)
(where compressor() had buried state that included a timer
since last activation)
Too often, control algorithms are naive and live entirely
in the moment. E.g., your irrigation system *may* cut back
on water use if it detects that it has rained, recently.
*BUT*, will gleefully water your flora despite the
growing storm clouds overhead! (isn't watering just BEFORE
a rain as wasteful as just after?)
Sad that so many products don't "open" their implementations
as I'm sure there are lots of optimizations that are possible
with multiple eyes/criteria looking at a problem!
and while you are busy optimising the irrigation system the plans dry out and die
there's; too late, too expensive and good enough
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit
thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
It just occurred to me. You have the fridge to chill all the laptops so you can overclock them!!!
Here's the most direct route to solving your problem. Get a microwave that is 600 watts, rather than the behemoth 1500 watt monster. Do you actual defrost turkeys in it?
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit
thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."
It just occurred to me. You have the fridge to chill all the laptops so you can overclock them!!!Not really. They are air-cooled.
Here's the most direct route to solving your problem. Get a microwave that is 600 watts, rather than the behemoth 1500 watt monster. Do you actual defrost turkeys in it?It's fairly standard sized microwave.
I still don't understand Fred's concern about relay switching the fridge. I got some 30A relay contacts that should be enough. Half of the laptops have batteries, which I can also relay switch off while using the microwave.
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of information is provided and
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal, microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit
thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you look at that? Not
somewhere?LOL!It just occurred to me. You have the fridge to chill all the laptops so you can overclock them!!!Not really. They are air-cooled.
1500W is not a standard size microwave. That's as large as they get for home use. 600W to 1000W is much more typical. Should I assume you actually read the rating plate to get the 1500W number? Or is this another "average" you pulled off a web page,Here's the most direct route to solving your problem. Get a microwave that is 600 watts, rather than the behemoth 1500 watt monster. Do you actual defrost turkeys in it?It's fairly standard sized microwave.
this causes an arc across the contacts, eroding and pitting them severely in a small number of cycles.I still don't understand Fred's concern about relay switching the fridge. I got some 30A relay contacts that should be enough. Half of the laptops have batteries, which I can also relay switch off while using the microwave.You will wear out the relays in relatively short order. Maybe a few months, maybe a year, depending on how often you use the microwave. The current rating does not mean you can open the circuit under load as much as you want. Especially with motors,
The only individual heavy load is the microwave which ranges from 600W to 1,400W, depending on size.
On Monday, 25 September 2023 at 09:39:26 UTC+1, Ricky wrote:
The only individual heavy load is the microwave which ranges from 600W to 1,400W, depending on size.Output. Consumption is about 1.2kW - 2kW
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 1:39:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of information is provided and
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal, microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you look at that? Not
There is an energy guide tag saying 310 KWhr/year. Nothing else. Detail info might be at the back of the fridge. Too heavy to pull the fridge out when loaded.
We just need to agree that it's too much to have both the fridge and microwave running together.
somewhere?LOL!It just occurred to me. You have the fridge to chill all the laptops so you can overclock them!!!Not really. They are air-cooled.
1500W is not a standard size microwave. That's as large as they get for home use. 600W to 1000W is much more typical. Should I assume you actually read the rating plate to get the 1500W number? Or is this another "average" you pulled off a web page,Here's the most direct route to solving your problem. Get a microwave that is 600 watts, rather than the behemoth 1500 watt monster. Do you actual defrost turkeys in it?It's fairly standard sized microwave.
Yes, rating plate at the back of the microwave.
this causes an arc across the contacts, eroding and pitting them severely in a small number of cycles.I still don't understand Fred's concern about relay switching the fridge. I got some 30A relay contacts that should be enough. Half of the laptops have batteries, which I can also relay switch off while using the microwave.You will wear out the relays in relatively short order. Maybe a few months, maybe a year, depending on how often you use the microwave. The current rating does not mean you can open the circuit under load as much as you want. Especially with motors,
5 to 10 times per day. 3000 per year. It should last at least a year.
I will put a filter cap in parallel with the contacts.
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:57:02 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:Not the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of information is provided
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 1:39:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal, microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you look at that?
There is an energy guide tag saying 310 KWhr/year. Nothing else. Detail info might be at the back of the fridge. Too heavy to pull the fridge out when loaded.Ok, but that's not the same as "nothing else". It just means you don't know the wattage and you won't do what it takes to find it. Can you read a model number somewhere? Did you look inside the fridge?
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:55:48 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:Not the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of information is provided
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:57:02 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 1:39:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal, microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you look at that?
OK, GE GPE12FGKDWWThere is an energy guide tag saying 310 KWhr/year. Nothing else. Detail info might be at the back of the fridge. Too heavy to pull the fridge out when loaded.Ok, but that's not the same as "nothing else". It just means you don't know the wattage and you won't do what it takes to find it. Can you read a model number somewhere? Did you look inside the fridge?
1.2A 115VAC
Ice maker power:145W
Defrost power:180W
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit
thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
No dishwasher or coffee pot.
You answered your question in another post:
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."
It just occurred to me. You have the fridge to chill all the laptops so you can overclock them!!!
Not really. They are air-cooled.
Here's the most direct route to solving your problem. Get a microwave that is 600 watts, rather than the behemoth 1500 watt monster. Do you actual defrost turkeys in it?
It's fairly standard sized microwave.
I still don't understand Fred's concern about relay switching the fridge. I got some 30A relay contacts that should be enough. Half of the laptops have batteries, which I can also relay switch off while using the microwave.
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine.
Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the
microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.
What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc.
Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit
thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
On 9/24/2023 6:35 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 5:43:06 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/24/2023 4:08 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
There are 4 breakers and 3 empty slots in the panel. I guess theyThe fact that it would likely get you tossed out of the apartment
really cut corners in this apartment. I might add some more
breakers, but making holes for wires is the problem.
might factor into your decision (as it would put the owner's
liability front and center should some OTHER tenant suffer harm
or loss as a result of your actions).
Note that you also need to know how the panel is *fed*
(what ampacity circuit).
And, running cable is not likely to be easy in "old works".
Note that you won't be able to claim "the wires were there"
as the wire will have a date code imprinted on it
every few feet (unless you happen to have some old
wire on hand that predates your occupancy).
Seems considerably easier to just change your usage patterns.
I'll try not to use the electric stove and microwave at the same time,
although they are on separate breakers. I'd have to unplug the fridge
to use the microwave.
The Code requires dedicated circuits for these major appliances
precisely to eliminate the nuisances that arise from two or more
of them being used concurrently.
When people are "plagued" by
nuisance trips, they look for ways to BYPASS those safety devices
(that are simply doing their jobs; the Code frowns on this sort
of behavior and tries to anticipate it).
[Ever notice how many/few receptacles are on each branch circuit?
Do you really think they expect you to plug vacuum cleaners
into ALL of them??]
Note that there is an EXPLICIT exception that *allows* a fridge
(which is classified as a major appliance and thus requires a
dedicated branch circuit) to be placed on one of the "small
appliance" counter circuits
-- but "best practices" (i.e., anyone
who isn't pinching pennies) will always have the fridge on a
15-20A dedicated circuit (of course, an apartment application
could be rationalized as not needing to support a big fridge).
Neighbor complained to me that his fridge would "go off" whenever
he used his microwave oven. His home was wired with the fridge
on the small appliance (counter) circuit. The *9* amps that the
nice *Viking* fridge would draw (peak), when inconveniently timed with
the microwave's sudden use, would promptly take out the counter
circuit.
"Move the microwave elsewhere or get a new DEDICATED branch circuit
installed -- like every NEW home!"
[I've heard this complaint (counter breaker tripping) so often that
my stock response is: "Check to see if your refrigerator is on the
same branch circuit" as it almost always is (and appliance salesmen
aren't keen on telling you that you need an electrician to come
out and install a new branch circuit BEFORE they can sell you that
shiny new fridge!)]
Ditto for a freezer, etc.
But, people don't read the Code so don't understand what it tries to anticipate... ("Gee, this only draws X << 20A so I can put it on
the counter circuit!")
I still don't understand Fred's concern about relay switching the fridge. I got some 30A relay contacts that should be enough. Half of the laptops have batteries, which I can also relay switch off while using the microwave.The induction motors in fridge compressors have low starting torque so
they don't start easily if the system has pressure already
Starting the compressor too soon after it last stopped can result in
it stalling.
Typically this causes it to overheat ans trip the thermal breaker.
(Klixon type thing) once it cools down and the breaker resets ( automatically) the pressure will have then dissipated and it will
start.
This increases wear in the breaker and thermal aging on the
compressor, but it won't break anything immediately.
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:39:07 PM UTC-4, Tabby wrote:
On Monday, 25 September 2023 at 09:39:26 UTC+1, Ricky wrote:
I've never seen a 120V appliance draw over 1440W. But then here it's very uncommon to see 20A circuits.The only individual heavy load is the microwave which ranges from 600W to 1,400W, depending on size.Output. Consumption is about 1.2kW - 2kW
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:55:48 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:Not the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of information is provided
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:57:02 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 1:39:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal, microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you look at that?
OK, GE GPE12FGKDWWThere is an energy guide tag saying 310 KWhr/year. Nothing else. Detail info might be at the back of the fridge. Too heavy to pull the fridge out when loaded.Ok, but that's not the same as "nothing else". It just means you don't know the wattage and you won't do what it takes to find it. Can you read a model number somewhere? Did you look inside the fridge?
1.2A 115VAC
Ice maker power:145W
Defrost power:180W
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:43:34 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:that? Not the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of information is
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:55:48 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:57:02 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 1:39:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV),
stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal, microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker) risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its* breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit thermostatically cycled on and silently took out theFridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor) Microwave: 1500W
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you look at
Eddie Lee.Your defroster uses more power than the fridge. I don't know why you didn't include this info in your first post. You should have included the power of all the devices. Then you wouldn't have needed to make the post at all. But then, that wouldn't beOK, GE GPE12FGKDWWThere is an energy guide tag saying 310 KWhr/year. Nothing else. Detail info might be at the back of the fridge. Too heavy to pull the fridge out when loaded.Ok, but that's not the same as "nothing else". It just means you don't know the wattage and you won't do what it takes to find it. Can you read a model number somewhere? Did you look inside the fridge?
1.2A 115VAC
Ice maker power:145W
Defrost power:180W
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 3:28:37?PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:all the way to the panel, it can be a tap off an existing circuit in the proximity.
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave. Should I try a 22 Amp Interrupting Circuit breaker? Existing one might be 10AIC.
I think you mean 10KAIC, which is not directly related to trip current as much as breaker contact construction. Plug the smallest load, laptop (?), into a different less loaded circuit via extension cord. Or wire a new circuit, which doesn't have to be
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:50:45 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:that? Not the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of information is
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:43:34 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:55:48 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:57:02 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 1:39:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster, toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV), stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal, microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator
(which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart
controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker) risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its* breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasherFridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor) Microwave: 1500W
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you look at
Eddie Lee.Your defroster uses more power than the fridge. I don't know why you didn't include this info in your first post. You should have included the power of all the devices. Then you wouldn't have needed to make the post at all. But then, that wouldn't beOK, GE GPE12FGKDWWThere is an energy guide tag saying 310 KWhr/year. Nothing else. Detail info might be at the back of the fridge. Too heavy to pull the fridge out when loaded.Ok, but that's not the same as "nothing else". It just means you don't know the wattage and you won't do what it takes to find it. Can you read a model number somewhere? Did you look inside the fridge?
1.2A 115VAC
Ice maker power:145W
Defrost power:180W
Is 0.4A out of 20A such an important factor? Or you are missing the point.
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:58:29 AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:that? Not the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of information is
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:50:45 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:43:34 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:55:48 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:57:02 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 1:39:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster, toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV), stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator (which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls) lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical) load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart controls will inhibit the compressor for its required dead time on initial application of power for exactly this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use.
Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor) Microwave: 1500W
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its* breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you look at
be Eddie Lee.Your defroster uses more power than the fridge. I don't know why you didn't include this info in your first post. You should have included the power of all the devices. Then you wouldn't have needed to make the post at all. But then, that wouldn'tOK, GE GPE12FGKDWWThere is an energy guide tag saying 310 KWhr/year. Nothing else. Detail info might be at the back of the fridge. Too heavy to pull the fridge out when loaded.Ok, but that's not the same as "nothing else". It just means you don't know the wattage and you won't do what it takes to find it. Can you read a model number somewhere? Did you look inside the fridge?
1.2A 115VAC
Ice maker power:145W
Defrost power:180W
Is 0.4A out of 20A such an important factor? Or you are missing the point.As usual, your math is not up to par. Where do you get 0.4A???
The fridge is 1.2A.are asking about.
The ice maker is 1.2A.
The defroster is 1.5A.
I'm sure I am missing the point. But that's because, like all of your projects, you can't provide the information in a clear manner. You have to scatter it over many posts, in many forms such that the only real project is trying to understand what you
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:59:42 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:at that? Not the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of information is
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:58:29 AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:50:45 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:43:34 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:55:48 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:57:02 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 1:39:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster, toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV), stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator (which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls) lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical) load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart controls will inhibit the compressor for its required dead time on initial application of power for exactly this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use. Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged
each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor) Microwave: 1500W
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its* breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher
or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you look
t be Eddie Lee.Your defroster uses more power than the fridge. I don't know why you didn't include this info in your first post. You should have included the power of all the devices. Then you wouldn't have needed to make the post at all. But then, that wouldn'OK, GE GPE12FGKDWWThere is an energy guide tag saying 310 KWhr/year. Nothing else. Detail info might be at the back of the fridge. Too heavy to pull the fridge out when loaded.Ok, but that's not the same as "nothing else". It just means you don't know the wattage and you won't do what it takes to find it. Can you read a model number somewhere? Did you look inside the fridge?
1.2A 115VAC
Ice maker power:145W
Defrost power:180W
you are asking about.OK, 1.5A - 1.2A, or 0.3A. So, I am off by 0.1A out of 20A.Is 0.4A out of 20A such an important factor? Or you are missing the point.As usual, your math is not up to par. Where do you get 0.4A???
The fridge is 1.2A.
The ice maker is 1.2A.
The defroster is 1.5A.
I'm sure I am missing the point. But that's because, like all of your projects, you can't provide the information in a clear manner. You have to scatter it over many posts, in many forms such that the only real project is trying to understand what
You point out that the defroster is unusually high, which is 0.3A more than typical running power. My point is that 0.3A is not an important factor. Unless you are missing the point, the decimal point.
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:look at that? Not the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:59:42 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:58:29 AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:50:45 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:43:34 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:55:48 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:57:02 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 1:39:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster, toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV), stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator (which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls) lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical) load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use. Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor) Microwave: 1500W
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you
wouldn't be Eddie Lee.Your defroster uses more power than the fridge. I don't know why you didn't include this info in your first post. You should have included the power of all the devices. Then you wouldn't have needed to make the post at all. But then, thatOK, GE GPE12FGKDWWThere is an energy guide tag saying 310 KWhr/year. Nothing else. Detail info might be at the back of the fridge. Too heavy to pull the fridge out when loaded.Ok, but that's not the same as "nothing else". It just means you don't know the wattage and you won't do what it takes to find it. Can you read a model number somewhere? Did you look inside the fridge?
1.2A 115VAC
Ice maker power:145W
Defrost power:180W
you are asking about.OK, 1.5A - 1.2A, or 0.3A. So, I am off by 0.1A out of 20A.Is 0.4A out of 20A such an important factor? Or you are missing the point.As usual, your math is not up to par. Where do you get 0.4A???
The fridge is 1.2A.
The ice maker is 1.2A.
The defroster is 1.5A.
I'm sure I am missing the point. But that's because, like all of your projects, you can't provide the information in a clear manner. You have to scatter it over many posts, in many forms such that the only real project is trying to understand what
said several times that you have failed repeatedly to provide clear information about the overall project.You point out that the defroster is unusually high, which is 0.3A more than typical running power. My point is that 0.3A is not an important factor. Unless you are missing the point, the decimal point.Why do you read things that I don't write??? This is why it is so difficult to help you. My point is that you are difficult to get accurate info from. This makes it difficult to know what you are talking about. It's not just this one number. I have
Good luck on your project.
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:45:32 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:look at that? Not the motor, the appliance. You've also said nothing about the size of this appliance. Is it a dorm room size fridge? A massive double door kitchen behemoth? Something in between? As is usual with you, only the barest minimum of
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 2:07:10 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 10:59:42 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 9:58:29 AM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 12:50:45 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:43:34 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 7:55:48 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:57:02 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 1:39:33 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 4:25:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 12:31:34 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 2:44:39 PM UTC-4, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Monday, September 25, 2023 at 11:22:16 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
On 9/25/2023 9:05 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
If I unplug the fridge, or when it's silence, microwave is fine. Sound like I need a relay circuit to disable the fridge from the microwave. Namely, a fridge outlet on the microwave.What's the nameplate rating of the microwave? Does *it* say
it requires a dedicated circuit? (because it draws more than
half of the rated branch circuit's ampacity)
The countertops, in kitchens, tend to see lots of large
loads that are often running concurrently. Toaster,
toaster oven, countertop oven (e.g., all the toaster
ovens on steroids that you see advertised on TV), stand/hand mixer, electric frying pan, *TV*, etc.
Add to this the other large loads that folks tend to
think nothing of activating: dishwasher, garbage disposal,
microwave, "instant hot water", etc. Imagine mindlessly
turning on the garbage disposal (for 10 seconds) and
tripping a breaker because it shared a branch circuit
with some other appliance...
You *don't* want to unplug/replug the refrigerator (which is what a relay would do) as this can confuse
the defrost timer and (for poorly designed controls)
lead to the compressor starting under a (mechanical)
load that hasn't yet had time to dissipate (smart controls will inhibit the compressor for its required
dead time on initial application of power for exactly
this reason -- but, then, you would risk the compressor
always "waiting" even without cause)
[Microwave ovens tend to see frequent, brief use. Would you want your refrigerator being unplugged each time you throw something in the microwave
for 15 seconds?]
And, refrigerators (if disabled due to a tripped breaker)Fridge: 310KWhr/year = 35W average (no info on motor)
risk having their contents spoil. So, you'd like the
refrigerator to be the sole item that can cause *its*
breaker to trip (imagine the instant hot water unit
thermostatically cycled on and silently took out the
breaker for the refrigerator... which you happen to
discover the next *morning*). Ditto the dishwasher or any other appliance that can "safely" sit, powered
off, with no ill effects (e.g., the dishes are still dirty
but aren't getting any *dirtier* in the absence of mains!)
Microwave: 1500W
Laptops: 60W to 90W.
You answered your question in another post:No dishwasher or coffee pot.I like that you provided the "average" power draw of the fridge. How do you expect to use that in solving your problem?
"Typically a refrigerator runs on 35% duty cycle, (65% for a freezer). This means that if you take the running watts and multiply it by 35%, you can get an idea as to how much power the average running amps will be."I'm pretty sure I didn't post that. Regardless, that would be a combination of an average with a rule of thumb, so not of much value. The point is, your appliance has a plate with the actual power rating while running. Why don't you
wouldn't be Eddie Lee.Your defroster uses more power than the fridge. I don't know why you didn't include this info in your first post. You should have included the power of all the devices. Then you wouldn't have needed to make the post at all. But then, thatOK, GE GPE12FGKDWWThere is an energy guide tag saying 310 KWhr/year. Nothing else. Detail info might be at the back of the fridge. Too heavy to pull the fridge out when loaded.Ok, but that's not the same as "nothing else". It just means you don't know the wattage and you won't do what it takes to find it. Can you read a model number somewhere? Did you look inside the fridge?
1.2A 115VAC
Ice maker power:145W
Defrost power:180W
what you are asking about.OK, 1.5A - 1.2A, or 0.3A. So, I am off by 0.1A out of 20A.Is 0.4A out of 20A such an important factor? Or you are missing the point.As usual, your math is not up to par. Where do you get 0.4A???
The fridge is 1.2A.
The ice maker is 1.2A.
The defroster is 1.5A.
I'm sure I am missing the point. But that's because, like all of your projects, you can't provide the information in a clear manner. You have to scatter it over many posts, in many forms such that the only real project is trying to understand
said several times that you have failed repeatedly to provide clear information about the overall project.You point out that the defroster is unusually high, which is 0.3A more than typical running power. My point is that 0.3A is not an important factor. Unless you are missing the point, the decimal point.Why do you read things that I don't write??? This is why it is so difficult to help you. My point is that you are difficult to get accurate info from. This makes it difficult to know what you are talking about. It's not just this one number. I have
Eddie Lee."Good luck on your project.You said:
"Your defroster uses more power than the fridge. I don't know why you didn't include this info in your first post. You should have included the power of all the devices. Then you wouldn't have needed to make the post at all. But then, that wouldn't be
Is 0.3A more that important?
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave.
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 12:28:37 PM UTC-7, Eddy Lee wrote:
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave.
OK, I figure out that the hood fan and waste disposal are on dedicated circuit, and the microwave should tap into this circuit. So, i need to do a few things:
1. Both outlets under the sink are switched. That's wrong.
Only the top should be switched. The bottom outlet should be always on.
Have to fix the wiring.
2. Drill a hole on the side of the sink cabinet and run a wire to the microwave.
3. Never turn on hood fan, waste disposal and microwave at the same time.
On 10/5/2023 6:50 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 12:28:37 PM UTC-7, Eddy Lee wrote:
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave.
OK, I figure out that the hood fan and waste disposal are on dedicated circuit, and the microwave should tap into this circuit. So, i need to do a few things:
1. Both outlets under the sink are switched. That's wrong.Does the disposal plug into a receptacle? If not it needs a disconnect
(the switch) if wired under the NEC.
Fan plugs into a receptacle under the sink? Switch for a hood fan that
is plugged in under a sink? Does the line cord for hood fan run through cabinet wall? Sounds more like it was for a dishwasher. Disconnect
applies here too.
Only the top should be switched. The bottom outlet should be always on."Top"? Top half of a duplex receptacle? If that is what it is, a single duplex receptacle should have been split-wired to the 2 switches.
Or two single receptacles should have been used.
Have to fix the wiring.
2. Drill a hole on the side of the sink cabinet and run a wire to the microwave.Your electrical inspector would not be pleased.
3. Never turn on hood fan, waste disposal and microwave at the same time.
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 8:21:41 PM UTC-7, bud-- wrote:
On 10/5/2023 6:50 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 12:28:37 PM UTC-7, Eddy Lee wrote:Does the disposal plug into a receptacle? If not it needs a disconnect
I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave.
OK, I figure out that the hood fan and waste disposal are on dedicated circuit, and the microwave should tap into this circuit. So, i need to do a few things:
1. Both outlets under the sink are switched. That's wrong.
(the switch) if wired under the NEC.
Fan plugs into a receptacle under the sink? Switch for a hood fan that
is plugged in under a sink? Does the line cord for hood fan run through
cabinet wall? Sounds more like it was for a dishwasher. Disconnect
applies here too.
No, the hood fan is wired separately from the same circuit breaker.
it under the sink.Only the top should be switched. The bottom outlet should be always on."Top"? Top half of a duplex receptacle? If that is what it is, a single
duplex receptacle should have been split-wired to the 2 switches.
Yes, that's what I am planning to fix. The top receptacle connect via the switch, but the bottom one should wire directly without the switch. That's how it is wired for some other light receptacles. I think it's just an oversight that they didn't do
Or two single receptacles should have been used.
Have to fix the wiring.Your electrical inspector would not be pleased.
2. Drill a hole on the side of the sink cabinet and run a wire to the microwave.
I would remove it before vacating the apartment.
3. Never turn on hood fan, waste disposal and microwave at the same time. >>>
On 10/6/2023 9:36 PM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Friday, October 6, 2023 at 8:21:41 PM UTC-7, bud-- wrote:
On 10/5/2023 6:50 AM, Eddy Lee wrote:
On Sunday, September 24, 2023 at 12:28:37 PM UTC-7, Eddy Lee wrote: >>>> I have microwave, fridge and 10 laptops on a 20A circuit. Fine most of the time until I use the microwave.Does the disposal plug into a receptacle? If not it needs a disconnect
OK, I figure out that the hood fan and waste disposal are on dedicated circuit, and the microwave should tap into this circuit. So, i need to do a few things:
1. Both outlets under the sink are switched. That's wrong.
(the switch) if wired under the NEC.
Fan plugs into a receptacle under the sink? Switch for a hood fan that
is plugged in under a sink? Does the line cord for hood fan run through >> cabinet wall? Sounds more like it was for a dishwasher. Disconnect
applies here too.
No, the hood fan is wired separately from the same circuit breaker.So "both outlets under the sink" is a duplex receptacle.
it under the sink.Only the top should be switched. The bottom outlet should be always on. >> "Top"? Top half of a duplex receptacle? If that is what it is, a single >> duplex receptacle should have been split-wired to the 2 switches.
Yes, that's what I am planning to fix. The top receptacle connect via the switch, but the bottom one should wire directly without the switch. That's how it is wired for some other light receptacles. I think it's just an oversight that they didn't do
The oversight is that it should have been a single receptacle. A
receptacle under the sink is only for the disposal. It certainly is not
for a microwave that is to be on one of the "small appliance branch circuits".
Or two single receptacles should have been used.
Have to fix the wiring.Your electrical inspector would not be pleased.
2. Drill a hole on the side of the sink cabinet and run a wire to the microwave.
I would remove it before vacating the apartment.
3. Never turn on hood fan, waste disposal and microwave at the same time.
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