New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?
Not so differrent or at least into my idea of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.
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From: Jan Panteltje <alien@comet.invalid>
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Subject: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
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On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 2:40:31 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?
Not so differrent or at least into my idea of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.In the sense of being terminally stupid?
The University of Adelaide seems to have fallen behind since the Braggs got a Nobel Prize there. Both my parents got chemistry degrees there in the 1930's, but didn't got back.
Two of my cousins were professors there in the 1970's for a couple of years, but didn't find it a congenial environment, and left to work in better places.
--
Bozo Bill Slowman, Sydney
On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 9:51:46 PM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
On Tuesday, September 19, 2023 at 2:40:31 PM UTC+10, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter: https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?
Not so differrent or at least into my idea of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.
In the sense of being terminally stupid?
The University of Adelaide seems to have fallen behind since the Braggs got a Nobel Prize there. Both my parents got chemistry degrees there in the 1930's, but didn't got back.
Two of my cousins were professors there in the 1970's for a couple of years, but didn't find it a congenial environment, and left to work in better places.
More ad hominem garbage. Try presenting facts next time.
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On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?
It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some
data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with.
High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to >understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever increasing >speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.
Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to >interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?
Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.
Path: not-for-mail
From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100
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From: John Larkin <jl@997arbor.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 08:40:00 -0700
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On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to >interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the >closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive >enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.Dark matter interacts with gravity.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?
It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some
data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with.
High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to
understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever increasing
speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.
Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
Dark matter interacts with gravity.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?
It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some
data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with.
High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to
understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever increasing
speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.
Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to >>> interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
Dark matter interacts with gravity.
Dark matter only seems to interact as unseen mass needed to balance
dynamical equations on a galactic scale and so far undetectable mass.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
What do you suggest? The big problem is in finding any evidence of dark >matter - if we ever had a lump of it then it might be testable in the
lab. One problem for astronomers is that we are stuck with what we can >observe from our location in an outer spiral arm of our galaxy.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
spiral arm of our galaxy.What do you suggest? The big problem is in finding any evidence of dark matter - if we ever had a lump of it then it might be testable in the lab. One problem for astronomers is that we are stuck with what we can observe from our location in an outer
There are lots of possibilities.
One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar patterns in multiple universes.
Your turn.
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm
Dark photon?
It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some
data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with.
High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to
understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever increasing >>>> speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.
Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to >>>> interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
Dark matter interacts with gravity.
Dark matter only seems to interact as unseen mass needed to balance
dynamical equations on a galactic scale and so far undetectable mass.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
What do you suggest? The big problem is in finding any evidence of dark
matter - if we ever had a lump of it then it might be testable in the
lab. One problem for astronomers is that we are stuck with what we can
observe from our location in an outer spiral arm of our galaxy.
There are lots of possibilities.
One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that
connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar
patterns in multiple universes.
Your turn.
On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
   https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm >>>>>>     Dark photon?
It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some >>>>> data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with. >>>>>
High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to >>>>> understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever
increasing
speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.
Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it
is to
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the >>>>> closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive >>>>> enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
Dark matter interacts with gravity.
Dark matter only seems to interact as unseen mass needed to balance
dynamical equations on a galactic scale and so far undetectable mass.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
What do you suggest? The big problem is in finding any evidence of dark
matter - if we ever had a lump of it then it might be testable in the
lab. One problem for astronomers is that we are stuck with what we can
observe from our location in an outer spiral arm of our galaxy.
There are lots of possibilities.
One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that
connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar
patterns in multiple universes.
Your turn.
The whole thing is a consequence of the Shoe Event Horizon.
On 30/09/2023 01:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
There are lots of possibilities.
One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar patterns in multiple universes.
Your turn.
Exactly what testable predictions does this word salad make then?
At best it is an untestable conjecture - yet another "Just so story".
At least the CDM theory predicts that in the early universe with WIMPs
being their own antiparticles then exotic super bright "dark stars" (the researchers term for them powered by dark matter self annihilation might
be observed). There are a few candidates in the JSW images. They need to
get some spectra to show if the stars are burning by fusion of ordinary matter or something else. Either way they are incredibly bright (which
makes the name "dark star" more than a bit misleading.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/jwst-might-have-spotted-the-first-dark-matter-stars/
https://physicsworld.com/a/stars-powered-by-dark-matter-may-have-been-seen-by-the-jwst/
More technical article in PNAS
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305762120
They might also provide a convenient mechanism to form the super massive black holes that are observed at the centre of most larger galaxies.
On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 5:35:57 PM UTC+10, Martin Brown
wrote:
On 30/09/2023 01:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
<snip>
There are lots of possibilities.
One is that there are multiple universes and the only force
that connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in
similar patterns in multiple universes.
Your turn.
Exactly what testable predictions does this word salad make then?
At best it is an untestable conjecture - yet another "Just so
story".
At least the CDM theory predicts that in the early universe with
WIMPs being their own antiparticles then exotic super bright "dark
stars" (the researchers term for them powered by dark matter self
annihilation might be observed). There are a few candidates in the
JSW images. They need to get some spectra to show if the stars are
burning by fusion of ordinary matter or something else. Either way
they are incredibly bright (which makes the name "dark star" more
than a bit misleading.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/jwst-might-have-spotted-the-first-dark-matter-stars/
https://physicsworld.com/a/stars-powered-by-dark-matter-may-have-been-seen-by-the-jwst/
More technical article in PNAS
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305762120
They might also provide a convenient mechanism to form the super
massive black holes that are observed at the centre of most larger
galaxies.
This seems to be inventing an an unnecessary difference between the
first stars (which didn't contain any elements beyond hydrogen and
helium) and their successors which did.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_population
These hypothetical Population 3 stars had a real and predictable
difference. Inventing an extra difference involving entirely
hypothetical dark matter doesn't seem to be necessary or useful.
Interpretting spectra from objects along way away at enormous
red-shifts embedded in galaxies that clearly worked rather
differently from the ones we know about is a demanding exercise.
Throwing in lunatic hypotheses jsn't helpful
<snip>
On 01/10/2023 15:00, Anthony William Sloman wrote:being powered by dark matter but nature will be the final arbiter in this debate.
On Saturday, September 30, 2023 at 5:35:57 PM UTC+10, Martin Brown wrote:
On 30/09/2023 01:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
<snip>
There are lots of possibilities.
One is that there are multiple universes and the only force
that connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in
similar patterns in multiple universes.
Your turn.
Exactly what testable predictions does this word salad make then?
At best it is an untestable conjecture - yet another "Just so
story".
At least the CDM theory predicts that in the early universe with
WIMPs being their own antiparticles then exotic super bright "dark
stars" (the researchers term for them powered by dark matter self
annihilation might be observed). There are a few candidates in the
JSW images. They need to get some spectra to show if the stars are
burning by fusion of ordinary matter or something else. Either way
they are incredibly bright (which makes the name "dark star" more
than a bit misleading.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/jwst-might-have-spotted-the-first-dark-matter-stars/
https://physicsworld.com/a/stars-powered-by-dark-matter-may-have-been-seen-by-the-jwst/
More technical article in PNAS
https://www.pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.2305762120
They might also provide a convenient mechanism to form the super
massive black holes that are observed at the centre of most larger
galaxies.
This seems to be inventing an an unnecessary difference between the
first stars (which didn't contain any elements beyond hydrogen and
helium) and their successors which did.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stellar_population
These hypothetical Population 3 stars had a real and predictable difference. Inventing an extra difference involving entirelyYou miss the point entirely. It *is* a questionable conjecture *but* it makes a clear *experimentally testable* prediction. JWST may well give
hypothetical dark matter doesn't seem to be necessary or useful.
us the answer one way or the other within a couple of years.
BTW Pop III stars are more metal depleted than later Pop II but there
was at least some Lithium (and Beryllium) which serves to help ignite
stars at lower mass than pure hydrogen and helium.
The curious observed shortage of Lithium in older Pop II stars compared
to the amount expected to have been synthesised in the Big Bang remains
a puzzle. It is about a factor of 4 lower than theory predicts:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cosmological_lithium_problem
Interpreting spectra from objects along way away at enormous
red-shifts embedded in galaxies that clearly worked rather
differently from the ones we know about is a demanding exercise.
Throwing in lunatic hypotheses jsn't helpful
<snip>It isn't a lunatic hypothesis and more importantly it makes an experimentally testable prediction which was why I chose it as an example. It is now bordering on mainstream in the supersymmetry cosmological camp. I have my doubts about "dark stars"
This article in a popular astronomy magazine is from 5 years ago.
https://www.astronomy.com/science/dark-stars-come-into-the-light/
The conjecture of Dark Stars and theory itself is a decade older still.
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:40:17 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown ><'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
<snip>
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is toDark matter interacts with gravity.
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
Not to anybody with access to suitable test equipment.
--
Bill Sloman. Sydney
On 30/09/2023 01:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter:
https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/09/230918105135.htm >>>>>>> Dark photon?
It strikes me as an example of being able to get a better fit to some >>>>>> data by introducing yet another free parameter to fiddle around with. >>>>>>
High energy physics is a cross between stamp collecting and trying to >>>>>> understand how clocks work by smashing them together at ever
increasing
speeds and seeing what bits come flying out of the impact zone.
Not so differrent or at least into my idea
of a state of Le Sage particles also being EM radiation.
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it >>>>>> is to
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the >>>>>> closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive >>>>>> enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
Dark matter interacts with gravity.
Dark matter only seems to interact as unseen mass needed to balance
dynamical equations on a galactic scale and so far undetectable mass. >>>>>
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
What do you suggest? The big problem is in finding any evidence of dark >>>> matter - if we ever had a lump of it then it might be testable in the
lab. One problem for astronomers is that we are stuck with what we can >>>> observe from our location in an outer spiral arm of our galaxy.
There are lots of possibilities.
One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that
connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar
patterns in multiple universes.
Your turn.
Exactly what testable predictions does this word salad make then?
At best it is an untestable conjecture - yet another "Just so story".
In article <b8af089d-96b1-4efe...@googlegroups.com>,
Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:40:17 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote: >> On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown ><'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
<snip>
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to >> >interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are theDark matter interacts with gravity.
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
Not to anybody with access to suitable test equipment.
That is a Popperian fallacy. Not all theories can be tested by controlled experiments. Most astronomy theories don't.
On Sat, 30 Sep 2023 08:35:45 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 30/09/2023 01:59, Phil Hobbs wrote:
On 2023-09-26 10:14, John Larkin wrote:
On Tue, 26 Sep 2023 09:41:51 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 25/09/2023 16:40, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
There are lots of possibilities.
One is that there are multiple universes and the only force that
connects them is gravitation. So matter tends to clump in similar
patterns in multiple universes.
Your turn.
Exactly what testable predictions does this word salad make then?
At best it is an untestable conjecture - yet another "Just so story".
Gravitational lensing.
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
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From: John Larkin <jl@997PotHill.com>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 02:54:24 -0700
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In article <b8af089d-96b1-4efe-b456-b15110816b23n@googlegroups.com>,
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:40:17 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote: >>> On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
<snip>
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to >>>> interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are theDark matter interacts with gravity.
closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive
enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
Not to anybody with access to suitable test equipment.
That is a Popperian fallacy. Not all theories can be tested
by controlled experiments. Most astronomy theories don't.
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From: jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 20:26:45 +0200
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On 2023-10-09 10:54, none albert wrote:
In article <b8af089d-96b1-4efe-b456-b15110816b23n@googlegroups.com>,
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:40:17 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote: >>>> On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
<snip>
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to >>>>> interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the >>>>> closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive >>>>> enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.Dark matter interacts with gravity.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
Not to anybody with access to suitable test equipment.
That is a Popperian fallacy. Not all theories can be tested
by controlled experiments. Most astronomy theories don't.
Indeed! But is that a reason to doubt Popper's philosophy
or cosmology? I'd say the latter. There are altogether too
many theories that can explain the observations. Without
experiment, there is no way to tell which one is right.
Epicycles worked quite nicely to describe planetary motion,
but it did nothing to help understanding. Newton and Cavendish
cleared that up. Quantum physics does quite nicely to predict
observations, but it confuses everyone with silly explanations.
We're still waiting for a Newton and Cavendish to bring order
into that.
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NNTP-Posting-Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 21:18:38 +0000
From: Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
Date: Mon, 09 Oct 2023 17:18:37 -0400
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On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 20:26:45 +0200, jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please>
wrote:
On 2023-10-09 10:54, none albert wrote:
In article <b8af089d-96b1-4efe-b456-b15110816b23n@googlegroups.com>,
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:40:17 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
<snip>
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is to >>>>>> interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the >>>>>> closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive >>>>>> enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.Dark matter interacts with gravity.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
Not to anybody with access to suitable test equipment.
That is a Popperian fallacy. Not all theories can be tested
by controlled experiments. Most astronomy theories don't.
Indeed! But is that a reason to doubt Popper's philosophy
or cosmology? I'd say the latter. There are altogether too
many theories that can explain the observations. Without
experiment, there is no way to tell which one is right.
Epicycles worked quite nicely to describe planetary motion,
but it did nothing to help understanding. Newton and Cavendish
cleared that up. Quantum physics does quite nicely to predict
observations, but it confuses everyone with silly explanations.
We're still waiting for a Newton and Cavendish to bring order
into that.
Yes. I too always wondered if physics math done in Hilbert space
(having an infinite number of dimensions, all being complex numbers
(and time being multiplied by c), was simply too powerful, and could
thus "explain" anything. Same problem as epicycles.
On 09/10/2023 22:18, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 20:26:45 +0200, jeroen <jer...@nospam.please> wrote:
On 2023-10-09 10:54, none albert wrote:
In article <b8af089d-96b1-4efe...@googlegroups.com>,
Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:40:17 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
explanations. We're still waiting for a Newton and Cavendish to bring order into that.That is a Popperian fallacy. Not all theories can be tested by controlled experiments. Most astronomy theories don't.
Indeed! But is that a reason to doubt Popper's philosophy or cosmology? I'd say the latter. There are altogether too many theories that can explain the observations. Without experiment, there is no way to tell which one is right.
Epicycles worked quite nicely to describe planetary motion, but it did nothing to help understanding. Newton and Cavendish cleared that up. Quantum physics does quite nicely to predict observations, but it confuses everyone with silly
epicycles.Yes. I too always wondered if physics math done in Hilbert space (having an infinite number of dimensions, all being complex numbers (and time being multiplied by c), was simply too powerful, and could thus "explain" anything. Same problem as
Epicycles were not all that far off being Fourier analysis but their problem was that the modelling was distinctly ad hoc. Its predictive power was actually quite good, but not as good as the much simpler theory of gravitation under an inversesquare law.
I'm in two minds about string theory. One of my contemporaries is a world leading string theorist but I have yet to see their ideas make a significant impact on practical astronomy or cosmology. They do make predictions that could in principle atleast be observed - especially now that JWST can almost see back to the first stars forming.
They could just be right but it does seem to have an alarming number of free parameters and ISTR around 10+ dimensions before you get anything that looks like if might adequately describe our universe.
Path: not-for-mail47r8iili5eg59vcbn1ggcsg39jrj3de651@4ax.com>
From: Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk>
Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
Subject: Re: New clues to the nature of elusive dark matter
Date: Tue, 10 Oct 2023 13:56:54 +0100
Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
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On 09/10/2023 22:18, Joe Gwinn wrote:
On Mon, 09 Oct 2023 20:26:45 +0200, jeroen <jeroen@nospam.please>
wrote:
On 2023-10-09 10:54, none albert wrote:
In article <b8af089d-96b1-4efe-b456-b15110816b23n@googlegroups.com>,
Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:
On Tuesday, September 26, 2023 at 1:40:17 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote: >>>>>> On Mon, 25 Sep 2023 16:27:31 +0100, Martin Brown
<'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
On 19/09/2023 05:40, Jan Panteltje wrote:
<snip>
The curious thing about dark matter is how incredibly reluctant it is toDark matter interacts with gravity.
interact with ordinary matter or electromagnetism. Neutrinos are the >>>>>>> closest thing we have found to date but they are nothing like massive >>>>>>> enough to provide the missing mass that holds galaxies together.
That suggests some some interesting, testable possibilities.
Not to anybody with access to suitable test equipment.
That is a Popperian fallacy. Not all theories can be tested
by controlled experiments. Most astronomy theories don't.
Indeed! But is that a reason to doubt Popper's philosophy
or cosmology? I'd say the latter. There are altogether too
many theories that can explain the observations. Without
experiment, there is no way to tell which one is right.
Epicycles worked quite nicely to describe planetary motion,
but it did nothing to help understanding. Newton and Cavendish
cleared that up. Quantum physics does quite nicely to predict
observations, but it confuses everyone with silly explanations.
We're still waiting for a Newton and Cavendish to bring order
into that.
Yes. I too always wondered if physics math done in Hilbert space
(having an infinite number of dimensions, all being complex numbers
(and time being multiplied by c), was simply too powerful, and could
thus "explain" anything. Same problem as epicycles.
Epicycles were not all that far off being Fourier analysis but their
problem was that the modelling was distinctly ad hoc. Its predictive
power was actually quite good, but not as good as the much simpler
theory of gravitation under an inverse square law.
I'm in two minds about string theory. One of my contemporaries is a
world leading string theorist but I have yet to see their ideas make a >significant impact on practical astronomy or cosmology. They do make >predictions that could in principle at least be observed - especially
now that JWST can almost see back to the first stars forming.
They could just be right but it does seem to have an alarming number of
free parameters and ISTR around 10+ dimensions before you get anything
that looks like if might adequately describe our universe.
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