Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of parts
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-repair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 1:12:07 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of parts https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-repair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

The requires that manufacturers at fair and reasonable terms "... provide parts, tools, repair manuals, and necessary software for devices that are still actively sold, California requires that vendors provide those items for products sold after July 1,
2021, starting in July 2024. Products costing $50 to $99.99 must be accompanied by those items for three years, and items $100 and more necessitate seven years." In other words, everything needed to repair and maintain the product. The onus is on the
manufacturers. Nothing says order fulfillment has to be "timely."
Apple came out in support of it, which surprised all the the special interests. They must have figured out a way to make big money from it.

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On Thursday, 14 September 2023 at 14:38:57 UTC+2, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 1:12:07 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of parts
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-repair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

The requires that manufacturers at fair and reasonable terms "... provide parts, tools, repair manuals, and necessary software for devices that are still actively sold, California requires that vendors provide those items for products sold after July 1,

2021, starting in July 2024. Products costing $50 to $99.99 must be accompanied by those items for three years, and items $100 and more necessitate seven years." In other words, everything needed to repair and maintain the product. The onus is on the
manufacturers. Nothing says order fulfillment has to be "timely."

Apple came out in support of it, which surprised all the the special interests. They must have figured out a way to make big money from it.

Makes no sense since repair of used devices is more expensive than buying a new one.

In Germany there is no repair services and faulty devices go to trash immediately since Bs of new products get offered and delivered by Aliexpress daily at hot prices

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 12:12:07 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of parts https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/farm-bureau-deere-co-sign-mou-ensuring-farmers-right-repair-equipment-2023-01-08/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-repair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

Equipment manufacturer John Deere came to an agreement to provide for right to repair also. It isn't unusual for a piece to farm equipment to be a half million dollars or more.
<https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/farm-bureau-deere-co-sign-mou-ensuring-farmers-right-repair-equipment-2023-01-08/>

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Darius the Dumb has posted yet one more #veryStupidByLowIQaa article.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Sep 2023 05:38:50 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote in <3def4e52-ebce-488f-ac6d-54fae69b2843n@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 1:12:07 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje =
wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of pa= >rts
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-r= >epair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

The requires that manufacturers at fair and reasonable terms "... provide p= >arts, tools, repair manuals, and necessary software for devices that are st= >ill actively sold, California requires that vendors provide those items for=
products sold after July 1, 2021, starting in July 2024. Products costing =
$50 to $99.99 must be accompanied by those items for three years, and items=
$100 and more necessitate seven years." In other words, everything needed =
to repair and maintain the product. The onus is on the manufacturers. Nothi= >ng says order fulfillment has to be "timely."
Apple came out in support of it, which surprised all the the special intere= >sts. They must have figured out a way to make big money from it.

Apple is in trouble again in France, their iphone12 exceeds the maximum radiation limit..
https://edition.cnn.com/2023/09/13/tech/apple-disputes-french-iphone12-radiation-claims/index.html

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On a sunny day (Thu, 14 Sep 2023 06:20:13 -0700 (PDT)) it happened Dean
Hoffman <deanh6929@gmail.com> wrote in <10b4bc5a-a898-42cb-85c7-f87e1874e41dn@googlegroups.com>:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 12:12:07 AM UTC-5, Jan Panteltje=
wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of pa= >rts https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/farm-bureau-deere-co-sign-m= >ou-ensuring-farmers-right-repair-equipment-2023-01-08/
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-r= >epair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

Equipment manufacturer John Deere came to an agreement to provide for =
right to repair also. It isn't unusual for a piece to farm equipment to be=
a half million dollars or more.
<https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/farm-bureau-deere-co-sign-mou-= >ensuring-farmers-right-repair-equipment-2023-01-08/>

I had a repair (TV, radio, electronics) shop in Amsterdam for a few years.
I think documentation and spare parts is a good thing.
When you buy something it becomes yours, in my view.
On the software level I think there must / should be a similar law introduced...
Maybe then all the silly updates disappear.. and they make things work right the first time.
Such a lot of crap new software releases...
Example:
I had the XFLIR software I wrote working perfectly on my Raspberry Pi4 8GB
So yesterday I plugged the thing in (GPIO connector)
and my code nicely reported an i2c communication error.
Now well, maybe I damaged the cable?
No, measured voltages, OK, did a
ls -l /dev/i2c*
showed /dev/i2c-20 and /dev/i2c-21
But not my IR camera on i2c-1

???
So google and wtf is i2c-20 and i2c-21?
OK google tells me that is HDMI related, and more googling tells me I have to enable i2c in the config file
(how can i2c-20 then work?) ..
OK enabled it, reboot, works again.
Was the latest raspi release..
You know, you could live with it for 1 case
If you release stuff in the public domain expect many emails..
But I have 30 or so programs I wrote and use and after every f*cking update of Linux distros
I have to rewrite all my code?
Same with gcc, they changed the default behavior so now you have to use the -fcommon flag to compile my code.
Just kids with no brains and coding experience tinkering with perfectly good libraries...
One even removed the middle and right mouse functionality from a GUI library (libforms, I gave some feedback
but using the old library)..

That is why I like PIC asm, no updates and no freaking code by anyone else, and works for as long as the chips lasts.

The only reason to update Linux for me is the web-browser, no longer worked with the old versions..
Not that web browsing got any better, neither does the content of websites...
I once started a web-browsers .. in those days using code from CERN, but what the world has made from it now
is an advertising piece of spy software.

Back to smoke signals!!!

Was making those in the garden today burning weeds...

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In article <10b4bc5a-a898-42cb-85c7-f87e1874e41dn@googlegroups.com>, deanh6929@gmail.com says...

Equipment manufacturer John Deere came to an agreement to provide for right to repair also. It isn't unusual for a piece to farm equipment to be a half million dollars or more.
<https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/farm-bureau-deere-co-sign-mou-ensuring-farmers-right-repair-equipment-2023-01-08/>

That equipment will probably be in use for 40 years. I worked in a
large plant built in 1965. In the year 2000 they found some equipment
that was built 1n 1920 and installed to do a special product.

Still funny that one can get almost any part for a Ford Model T from
1920 or so.

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In article <3def4e52-ebce-488f-ac6d-54fae69b2843n@googlegroups.com>, bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com says...

The requires that manufacturers at fair and reasonable terms "... provide parts, tools, repair manuals, and necessary software for devices that are still actively sold, California requires that vendors provide those items for products sold after July 1,

2021, starting in July 2024. Products costing $50 to $99.99 must be accompanied by those items for three years, and items $100 and more necessitate seven years." In other words, everything needed to repair and maintain the product. The onus is on the manufacturers. Nothing says order fulfillment has to be "timely."

Apple came out in support of it, which surprised all the the special interests. They must have figured out a way to make big money from it.

Apple may be thinking like the Comodore did years ago. Forget the
numbers but it was like any repair was $ 75. You send in your box,
they would have unskilled labor toss out the old circuit board and
install a $ 50 new circuit board.

Most any device under $ 200 the labor will be as much or more than the
device.

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On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 11:17:48 PM UTC+10, a a wrote:

On Thursday, 14 September 2023 at 14:38:57 UTC+2, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 1:12:07 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of parts
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-repair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

The requires that manufacturers at fair and reasonable terms "... provide parts, tools, repair manuals, and necessary software for devices that are still actively sold, California requires that vendors provide those items for products sold after July

1, 2021, starting in July 2024. Products costing $50 to $99.99 must be accompanied by those items for three years, and items $100 and more necessitate seven years." In other words, everything needed to repair and maintain the product. The onus is on the
manufacturers. Nothing says order fulfillment has to be "timely."

Apple came out in support of it, which surprised all the the special interests. They must have figured out a way to make big money from it.

Makes no sense since repair of used devices is more expensive than buying a new one.

According to Darius the Dumb, who has all sort of silly ideas.

In Germany there is no repair services and faulty devices go to trash immediately since Bs of new products get offered and delivered by Aliexpress daily at hot prices.

Sadly, there's not much interest in the trash Aliexpress sells. It may be cheap, but it is also nasty. Germany has a long tradition of craftsmanship, and craftsmen can fix what they made.
Some of them take pride in fixing stuff well enough that it works better than it did when it was new.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 12:48:19 PM UTC-5, Ralph Mowery wrote:

In article <10b4bc5a-a898-42cb...@googlegroups.com>,
dean...@gmail.com says...

Equipment manufacturer John Deere came to an agreement to provide for right to repair also. It isn't unusual for a piece to farm equipment to be a half million dollars or more.
<https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/farm-bureau-deere-co-sign-mou-ensuring-farmers-right-repair-equipment-2023-01-08/>

That equipment will probably be in use for 40 years. I worked in a
large plant built in 1965. In the year 2000 they found some equipment
that was built 1n 1920 and installed to do a special product.

Still funny that one can get almost any part for a Ford Model T from
1920 or so.

My dad had an 8N Ford tractor that my brother and I inherited. It was a 1948 and the only tractor he bought new. They are still popular. We finally traded it for a little Massey Ferguson diesel.

--- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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On 14-Sept-23 3:11 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of parts
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-repair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

However, the definition of "part" given in the legislation is such that
it only includes bits that the manufacture makes available to authorized
repair providers.

People like Louis Rossmann will do chip-level repairs, but the
manufacturer has no incentive to let authorized repair providers do such things, so proprietary chips will still be difficult to source.

If the manufacturer does all repairs in house, then it appears to me
that it avoids the requirement to provide parts. This could result in
the disappearance of independent authorized repairers, to be replaced by manufacturer owned repairers. This exclusion looks like a late addition. Sponsored by Apple?

Sylvia.

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On a sunny day (Sat, 16 Sep 2023 12:02:44 +1000) it happened Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote in <kmkgm4F1oifU1@mid.individual.net>:

On 14-Sept-23 3:11 pm, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of parts >> https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-repair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

However, the definition of "part" given in the legislation is such that
it only includes bits that the manufacture makes available to authorized >repair providers.

People like Louis Rossmann will do chip-level repairs, but the
manufacturer has no incentive to let authorized repair providers do such >things, so proprietary chips will still be difficult to source.

If the manufacturer does all repairs in house, then it appears to me
that it avoids the requirement to provide parts. This could result in
the disappearance of independent authorized repairers, to be replaced by >manufacturer owned repairers. This exclusion looks like a late addition. >Sponsored by Apple?

It is hard to tell where it will go.
But the right to repair is a good thing.
Often special equipment is needed to repair some things,
and the manufacturers will have to provide that too.
But some repair shops can be really inventive :-)
I do remember we had a deal with Sony for Betamax repairs here, we would sent / forward it to them
for repair, not do it ourselves.
As it were so few cases it would not be worth it to invest in the needed equipment
and now the responsibility was for them. late seventies.
Repaired so many things, thousands TVs, recorders, radios, what not.
If you do your work right you always have customers.

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On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 4:08:48 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 11:17:48 PM UTC+10, a a wrote:

On Thursday, 14 September 2023 at 14:38:57 UTC+2, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 1:12:07 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of parts
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-repair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

The requires that manufacturers at fair and reasonable terms "... provide parts, tools, repair manuals, and necessary software for devices that are still actively sold, California requires that vendors provide those items for products sold after

July 1, 2021, starting in July 2024. Products costing $50 to $99.99 must be accompanied by those items for three years, and items $100 and more necessitate seven years." In other words, everything needed to repair and maintain the product. The onus is on
the manufacturers. Nothing says order fulfillment has to be "timely."

Apple came out in support of it, which surprised all the the special interests. They must have figured out a way to make big money from it.

Makes no sense since repair of used devices is more expensive than buying a new one.

According to Darius the Dumb, who has all sort of silly ideas.

This piece of wisdom coming from the Bozo that thinks that NUKING and FIREBOMBING your OWN COUNTRY is a GOOD IDEA!

<snip Bozo's BULLSHIT!>

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On Saturday, September 16, 2023 at 3:30:25 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 4:08:48 AM UTC-7, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 11:17:48 PM UTC+10, a a wrote:

On Thursday, 14 September 2023 at 14:38:57 UTC+2, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 1:12:07 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of parts
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-repair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

The requires that manufacturers at fair and reasonable terms "... provide parts, tools, repair manuals, and necessary software for devices that are still actively sold, California requires that vendors provide those items for products sold after

July 1, 2021, starting in July 2024. Products costing $50 to $99.99 must be accompanied by those items for three years, and items $100 and more necessitate seven years." In other words, everything needed to repair and maintain the product. The onus is on
the manufacturers. Nothing says order fulfillment has to be "timely."

Apple came out in support of it, which surprised all the the special interests. They must have figured out a way to make big money from it.

Makes no sense since repair of used devices is more expensive than buying a new one.

According to Darius the Dumb, who has all sort of silly ideas.

This piece of wisdom coming from Bill, who that thinks that NUKING and FIREBOMBING your OWN COUNTRY is a GOOD IDEA!

Sewage Sweeper thinks that I recommended nuking and fire-bombing my own country, which was - of course - his bizarre misunderstanding of what I'd said. I've made a couple of attempts to explain to him why he[s got my idea so completely wrong, but he much
prefers his own silly ideas (which are pretty much as lunatic fringe as Darius the Dumb's - he even thinks that Donald Trump did a good job in protecting the US against Covid-19, which should get him put a away for dangerous insanity).

<snipped the rest of Sewage Sweeper's nonsense - he does give anonymous trolls a bad name>

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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On Friday, September 15, 2023 at 7:08:48 AM UTC-4, Anthony William Sloman wrote:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 11:17:48 PM UTC+10, a a wrote:

On Thursday, 14 September 2023 at 14:38:57 UTC+2, Fred Bloggs wrote:

On Thursday, September 14, 2023 at 1:12:07 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:

Calif. passes strongest right-to-repair bill yet, requiring 7 years of parts
https://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2023/09/calif-passes-strongest-right-to-repair-bill-yet-requiring-7-years-of-parts/

SO seems you better have a good design or stock a lot of chips ;-)

The requires that manufacturers at fair and reasonable terms "... provide parts, tools, repair manuals, and necessary software for devices that are still actively sold, California requires that vendors provide those items for products sold after

July 1, 2021, starting in July 2024. Products costing $50 to $99.99 must be accompanied by those items for three years, and items $100 and more necessitate seven years." In other words, everything needed to repair and maintain the product. The onus is on
the manufacturers. Nothing says order fulfillment has to be "timely."

Apple came out in support of it, which surprised all the the special interests. They must have figured out a way to make big money from it.

Makes no sense since repair of used devices is more expensive than buying a new one.

According to Darius the Dumb, who has all sort of silly ideas.

In Germany there is no repair services and faulty devices go to trash immediately since Bs of new products get offered and delivered by Aliexpress daily at hot prices.

Sadly, there's not much interest in the trash Aliexpress sells. It may be cheap, but it is also nasty. Germany has a long tradition of craftsmanship, and craftsmen can fix what they made.
Some of them take pride in fixing stuff well enough that it works better than it did when it was new.

The Aliexpress sellers are migrating to Amazon.

You should read Jack Ma's narrative about how he settled on the name Alibaba. It's quite jaw dropping. Not the story, such as it is, but Jack Ma.

--
Bill Sloman, Sydney

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