• Demand Outstripping Supply

    From Ricky@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 15 13:58:50 2022
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many products
    containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Ricky on Tue Aug 16 00:08:33 2022
    On 8/15/2022 23:58, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many products
    containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?


    My conspiracy theory about that is that the shortage was created
    artificially because of the war (and the anticipation of it).
    There is no other way to stop the Russians buy parts for their
    drones etc. Once Putin is dealt with things will get back to normal
    pretty quickly.
    Don't ask me to provide evidence, no good conspiracy theory ever
    does that :).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Ricky on Tue Aug 16 09:11:03 2022
    On 15/08/2022 21:58, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of
    a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic.
    But why has it continued for so long?

    Because a modest shortage of parts means that the manufacturers can make
    more money by doing less work. The most obvious one was automotive chips
    where car buying fell off a cliff during the pandemic and chips for that virtually stopped whereas big HD+ smart TV sales online rocketed.

    Not surprisingly they diverted manufacture towards the things that were
    still selling at premium prices and haven't been inclined to shift away
    from the chips which bring the most income.

    Some common bread and butter chips aren't getting much of a look in.

    Periodic full lockdowns of key Chinese ports and shipping containers all
    out of position haven't helped either and now all of the sabre rattling
    around Taiwan in addition to the Ukrainian invasion by Russia.

    Modern semiconductor packaging could become problematic if there was a
    nuclear detonation since it would release a lot of alpha emitters.

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an
    impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We
    are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long
    since stabilized; yet production of many products containing
    semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    I'm not sure that buying habits have stabilised yet. The recent near quadrupling of the gas price in Europe has pretty much destroyed the
    disposable income of a large fraction of the population here. If I was a
    chip maker I would be very wary of scaling up again at the moment.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the
    pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase
    production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any
    idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?

    Demand switched back on again rather suddenly as unlocking of the major economies occurred. One side effect was that you couldn't get certain
    key automotive spares for love nor money - all available chip production
    went into new build vehicles where the volumes are higher!

    Safety systems like airbags were particularly difficult to obtain.

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Johann Klammer@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 16 13:34:40 2022
    On 08/15/2022 11:08 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

    My conspiracy theory about that is that the shortage was created
    artificially because of the war (and the anticipation of it).
    There is no other way to stop the Russians buy parts for their
    drones etc. Once Putin is dealt with things will get back to normal
    pretty quickly.
    Don't ask me to provide evidence, no good conspiracy theory ever
    does that :).

    +1

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 16 07:12:26 2022
    On Tue, 16 Aug 2022 00:08:33 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 8/15/2022 23:58, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many products
    containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?


    My conspiracy theory about that is that the shortage was created
    artificially because of the war (and the anticipation of it).
    There is no other way to stop the Russians buy parts for their
    drones etc. Once Putin is dealt with things will get back to normal
    pretty quickly.
    Don't ask me to provide evidence, no good conspiracy theory ever
    does that :).

    The semi industry is prone to this sort of crisis; it has happened
    before.

    Rumor of shortage.

    Everybody orders extra safety stock; we'll use it eventually

    Brokers see the trend and buy on speculation.

    Loop on that.


    Semiconductors are small and easy to store, unlike toilet paper, and
    don't spoil, unlike tomatoes, so are ideal panic drivers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Ricky on Tue Aug 16 09:43:19 2022
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many products
    containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become
    top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!
                                       Mikek

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to amdx on Tue Aug 16 17:52:41 2022
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many products
    containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become
    top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!

    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem? Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order?

    --

    Rick C.

    -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Tue Aug 16 17:49:54 2022
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 4:11:17 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 15/08/2022 21:58, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of
    a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic.
    But why has it continued for so long?
    Because a modest shortage of parts means that the manufacturers can make
    more money by doing less work. The most obvious one was automotive chips where car buying fell off a cliff during the pandemic and chips for that virtually stopped whereas big HD+ smart TV sales online rocketed.

    I have not seen any sign of prices having ramped, other than through brokers. The lead times have simply strung out.


    Not surprisingly they diverted manufacture towards the things that were
    still selling at premium prices and haven't been inclined to shift away
    from the chips which bring the most income.

    The fallacy in that is the thinking that there remains some sort of shortage of capacity. If there is no shortage of production capacity, they would have to leave facilities idle to continue a shortage.


    Some common bread and butter chips aren't getting much of a look in.

    Periodic full lockdowns of key Chinese ports and shipping containers all
    out of position haven't helped either and now all of the sabre rattling around Taiwan in addition to the Ukrainian invasion by Russia.

    Modern semiconductor packaging could become problematic if there was a nuclear detonation since it would release a lot of alpha emitters.

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an
    impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We
    are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long
    since stabilized; yet production of many products containing
    semiconductors is still falling short of demand.
    I'm not sure that buying habits have stabilised yet. The recent near quadrupling of the gas price in Europe has pretty much destroyed the disposable income of a large fraction of the population here. If I was a
    chip maker I would be very wary of scaling up again at the moment.

    If a loss of demand were a significant impact the shortage would already be over.


    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the
    pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase
    production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any
    idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?
    Demand switched back on again rather suddenly as unlocking of the major economies occurred. One side effect was that you couldn't get certain
    key automotive spares for love nor money - all available chip production
    went into new build vehicles where the volumes are higher!

    Safety systems like airbags were particularly difficult to obtain.

    Thanks anyway,

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sjouke Burry@21:1/5 to Ricky on Wed Aug 17 03:45:52 2022
    On 17.08.22 2:52, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many products
    containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become
    top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!

    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem? Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order?

    Wellll... They were quite able to dump production elsewhere.
    And demolish US production capacity and knowledge about it.

    O yes, lets leave that to china an Taiwan.

    Result: USA cannot produce its needed chips .

    And now blame the rest of the world for the consequentialities.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Ricky on Wed Aug 17 08:38:07 2022
    On 17/08/2022 01:49, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 4:11:17 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 15/08/2022 21:58, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an
    outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response
    to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?
    Because a modest shortage of parts means that the manufacturers can
    make more money by doing less work. The most obvious one was
    automotive chips where car buying fell off a cliff during the
    pandemic and chips for that virtually stopped whereas big HD+ smart
    TV sales online rocketed.

    I have not seen any sign of prices having ramped, other than through
    brokers. The lead times have simply strung out.

    Long lead times means we don't have any in stock and once you go beyond
    90 days it is pretty much code for and we don't know when we will.

    Not surprisingly they diverted manufacture towards the things that
    were still selling at premium prices and haven't been inclined to
    shift away from the chips which bring the most income.

    The fallacy in that is the thinking that there remains some sort of
    shortage of capacity. If there is no shortage of production
    capacity, they would have to leave facilities idle to continue a
    shortage.

    I'm sure there is plenty of semiconductor fab lines but are there enough skilled people to run them all? One side effect of Covid-19 (at least in
    the UK) has been to cause skilled professionals nearing retirement age
    to retire early taking with them a big chunk of company knowledge.

    Much like the problems with airport baggage handling there is such a
    shortage of workers right now that some plant is being deliberately left
    idle to concentrate on making the in demand chips with the highest
    margins. Even the mobile phone cycle isn't reliable right now - first
    thing people stop buying in a squeeze is replacement mobiles and cars.
    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to
    an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
    We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have
    long since stabilized; yet production of many products
    containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.
    I'm not sure that buying habits have stabilised yet. The recent
    near quadrupling of the gas price in Europe has pretty much
    destroyed the disposable income of a large fraction of the
    population here. If I was a chip maker I would be very wary of
    scaling up again at the moment.

    If a loss of demand were a significant impact the shortage would
    already be over.

    I think problems restarting after furlough have proved much more
    complicated than anyone anticipated. You only have to look at the
    chaotic scenes at Heathrow or other major airports. Likewise for the
    major ports - not enough people to operate at full capacity. Every stage
    in the distribution system is impacted by labour shortages of some sort.


    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Ricky on Wed Aug 17 06:20:20 2022
    On 8/16/2022 7:52 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many products
    containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become
    top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!
    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem? Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order?

     My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking
    problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up.
      Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our
    critical chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required
    chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).
                                           Mikek

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to amdx on Wed Aug 17 05:24:17 2022
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/16/2022 7:52 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many
    products containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become
    top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!
    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem? Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order?

    My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking
    problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up.
    Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our
    critical chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required
    chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).

    How would you require international companies to build chips in the US?

    --

    Rick C.

    -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Wed Aug 17 16:57:57 2022
    On 8/17/2022 10:38, Martin Brown wrote:
    ...
    I'm sure there is plenty of semiconductor fab lines but are there enough skilled people to run them all? One side effect of Covid-19 (at least in
    the UK) has been to cause skilled professionals nearing retirement age
    to retire early taking with them a big chunk of company knowledge.

    This is pretty huge actually, covid or not. It may turn out technology
    has outgrown the capability of human generations to keep up with it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to amdx on Wed Aug 17 08:12:20 2022
    On 08/17/2022 05:20 AM, amdx wrote:
    My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking
    problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up.
    Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our critical chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required
    chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).

    It 'encouraged' domestic investment with a large carrot and a very small
    stick. While their tech has been lagging behind TSMC's kudo for Intel
    for investing in fab lines in the US as well as Ireland and I believe,
    Germany. TSMC is very capable but it's also 150 miles from a large
    entity the US has been doing its best to piss off.

    Economies of scale lead to concentration. Even in the US you find
    material being trucked 2500 miles because it's cheaper. Or it was with
    low fuel prices and Federally subsidized transportation networks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to '''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk on Wed Aug 17 07:13:33 2022
    On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 08:38:07 +0100, Martin Brown
    <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

    On 17/08/2022 01:49, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 4:11:17 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 15/08/2022 21:58, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an
    outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response
    to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?
    Because a modest shortage of parts means that the manufacturers can
    make more money by doing less work. The most obvious one was
    automotive chips where car buying fell off a cliff during the
    pandemic and chips for that virtually stopped whereas big HD+ smart
    TV sales online rocketed.

    I have not seen any sign of prices having ramped, other than through
    brokers. The lead times have simply strung out.

    Long lead times means we don't have any in stock and once you go beyond
    90 days it is pretty much code for and we don't know when we will.

    Not surprisingly they diverted manufacture towards the things that
    were still selling at premium prices and haven't been inclined to
    shift away from the chips which bring the most income.

    The fallacy in that is the thinking that there remains some sort of
    shortage of capacity. If there is no shortage of production
    capacity, they would have to leave facilities idle to continue a
    shortage.

    I'm sure there is plenty of semiconductor fab lines but are there enough >skilled people to run them all? One side effect of Covid-19 (at least in
    the UK) has been to cause skilled professionals nearing retirement age
    to retire early taking with them a big chunk of company knowledge.

    Old timers, who often understood electricity and designed things in
    big companies, are indeed retiring, and not being replaced. That is a
    business opportunity for smaller instrumentation companies.

    I asked TI a simple question about a chip. "That's a Burr-Brown part,
    nobody knows anything about it." Somehow they still fab and test them.


    Much like the problems with airport baggage handling there is such a
    shortage of workers right now that some plant is being deliberately left
    idle to concentrate on making the in demand chips with the highest
    margins. Even the mobile phone cycle isn't reliable right now - first
    thing people stop buying in a squeeze is replacement mobiles and cars.
    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to
    an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
    We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have
    long since stabilized; yet production of many products
    containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.
    I'm not sure that buying habits have stabilised yet. The recent
    near quadrupling of the gas price in Europe has pretty much
    destroyed the disposable income of a large fraction of the
    population here. If I was a chip maker I would be very wary of
    scaling up again at the moment.

    If a loss of demand were a significant impact the shortage would
    already be over.

    I think problems restarting after furlough have proved much more
    complicated than anyone anticipated. You only have to look at the
    chaotic scenes at Heathrow or other major airports. Likewise for the
    major ports - not enough people to operate at full capacity. Every stage
    in the distribution system is impacted by labour shortages of some sort.

    We have labor shortages everywhere. Construction, restaurant workers,
    checkout clerks at Safeway. I see HELP WANTED signs is stores
    everywhere. A lot of people are apparently evaluating their options
    and selecting Lying Flat or equivalent. The 40 hour work week in
    exchange for money is in fact a modern, probably unnatural, concept.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Wed Aug 17 08:06:13 2022
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 11:58:07 PM UTC+10, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 8/17/2022 10:38, Martin Brown wrote:
    ...
    I'm sure there is plenty of semiconductor fab lines but are there enough skilled people to run them all? One side effect of Covid-19 (at least in the UK) has been to cause skilled professionals nearing retirement age
    to retire early taking with them a big chunk of company knowledge.
    This is pretty huge actually, covid or not. It may turn out technology
    has outgrown the capability of human generations to keep up with it.

    US industry has a depressing habit of paying it's executives hugely inflated salaries, and paying a whole lot less to the skilled people who wrestle with the hardware. Over the last thirty years all the expansion of the US economy has put more money into
    the pockets of the top 1% of the income distribution, who are doing about twice as well as they used to, while the incomes of the 99% haven't gone up much at all.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Spirit_Level_(book)

    looks at the side effects. It compares a bunch of advanced industrial countries (including the US) and the various US states which also exhibit a range of income inequalities. US levels of income inequality are definitely bad for society. Sweden has
    about the lowest Gini coefficient around - about 0.25 - and they do pretty well. Australia is closer to 0.3 and it isn't too bad. The US is worst at about 0.47 and it sucks.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Wed Aug 17 09:52:46 2022
    On 8/17/2022 7:12 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/17/2022 05:20 AM, amdx wrote:
    My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking
    problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up.
    Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our critical
    chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required
    chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).

    It 'encouraged' domestic investment with a large carrot and a very small stick.
    While their tech has been lagging behind TSMC's kudo for Intel for investing in
    fab lines in the US as well as Ireland and I believe, Germany. TSMC is very capable but it's also 150 miles from a large entity the US has been doing its best to piss off.

    Economies of scale lead to concentration. Even in the US you find material being trucked 2500 miles because it's cheaper. Or it was with low fuel prices and Federally subsidized transportation networks.

    The problem with "incentives" is they are transitory. When the bean counters decide they can eek no more from a particular program, they look for other alternatives to trim costs. The cost of "staffing" hasn't been seen as a deterrent in most of these decisions -- dangle enough money in front of someone and, the thought is, you can coerce them to moving to wherever your need exists.

    That may start to change as the political climate in the US worsens; folks might simply not want to live in certain places! This reduces the pool of candidates (ultimately, to those who can't compete elsewhere).

    Ages ago (70's), one of the *essential* criteria for a design-in was the availability of second sources. Particularly for high-value items (like processors). That's one reason you'd see folks like Motogorilla lining
    up 7 or 8 alternate vendors for their m68K line when introduced. (and
    why you saw other processor families wither on the vine).

    Nowadays, this isn't quite as clear cut. "Drop in" replacements aren't available. But, with careful planning, one can design in a product
    from vendor A and switch to vendor B (at some retooling cost) in a
    modest amount of time -- esp with ARM devices (think very carefully
    about which features of a particular device you RELY upon!)

    This recent SNAFU may reinstill that need for alternatives -- esp in
    the big customers (which can have a driving effect on the rest of
    the industry -- "if we don't have a reasonable alternative available,
    OUR devices aren't going to win BIG designs!")

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Ricky on Wed Aug 17 11:53:59 2022
    On 8/17/2022 7:24 AM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/16/2022 7:52 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many
    products containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become >>>> top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!
    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem? Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order?

    My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking
    problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up.
    Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our
    critical chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required
    chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).
    How would you require international companies to build chips in the US?

    I don't what company builds them they need to built here so they can't
    be cut off by
    war, political events, supply ship quarantine.
      Let me ask you, is it good that our National Security that our chips
    are manufactured overseas?
    Excluding economics, is good that our commercial chips are manufactured overseas?
                                Mikek

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to amdx on Wed Aug 17 10:00:25 2022
    On 8/17/2022 9:53 AM, amdx wrote:
    On 8/17/2022 7:24 AM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/16/2022 7:52 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a >>>>>> change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But >>>>>> why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an >>>>>> impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5
    years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since
    stabilized; yet production of many products containing semiconductors is >>>>>> still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? >>>>>> Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of >>>>>> various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long >>>>>> this will last or how to deal with it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become >>>>> top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!
    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem?
    Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the >>>> US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the >>>> supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order?

    My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking
    problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up.
    Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our
    critical chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required
    chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).
    How would you require international companies to build chips in the US?

    I don't what company builds them they need to built here so they can't be cut off by
    war, political events, supply ship quarantine.
    Let me ask you, is it good that our National Security that our chips are manufactured overseas?
    Excluding economics, is good that our commercial chips are manufactured overseas?

    “Potato chips, computer chips, what’s the difference? A hundred dollars of one
    or a hundred dollars of the other is still a hundred dollars.”

    Yes, Mr Boskin (chairman of White House Council of Economic Advisors under Bush), that's absolutely true. Except you can't put a potato in a missile and expect it to find its way to a target!

    You can't even MAKE potato chips without computer chips! (oops!)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to amdx on Wed Aug 17 19:43:52 2022
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 12:54:10 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/17/2022 7:24 AM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/16/2022 7:52 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many
    products containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with
    it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become >>>> top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!
    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem? Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order?

    My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking
    problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up.
    Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our
    critical chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required
    chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).
    How would you require international companies to build chips in the US?

    I don't what company builds them they need to built here so they can't
    be cut off by
    war, political events, supply ship quarantine.
    Let me ask you, is it good that our National Security that our chips
    are manufactured overseas?

    *Our chips*??? What makes them "our chips"? Someone makes them overseas. We don't have to buy them.


    Excluding economics, is good that our commercial chips are manufactured overseas?

    You keep talking as if we own chips. No one is stopping you from building chips in the US. "Build them and they will come."

    How about this idea? Let's stay the hell out of wars, ok?

    --

    Rick C.

    +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Aug 17 19:39:18 2022
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 10:13:44 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 17 Aug 2022 08:38:07 +0100, Martin Brown
    <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

    On 17/08/2022 01:49, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 4:11:17 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 15/08/2022 21:58, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an
    outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response
    to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?
    Because a modest shortage of parts means that the manufacturers can
    make more money by doing less work. The most obvious one was
    automotive chips where car buying fell off a cliff during the
    pandemic and chips for that virtually stopped whereas big HD+ smart
    TV sales online rocketed.

    I have not seen any sign of prices having ramped, other than through
    brokers. The lead times have simply strung out.

    Long lead times means we don't have any in stock and once you go beyond
    90 days it is pretty much code for and we don't know when we will.

    Not surprisingly they diverted manufacture towards the things that
    were still selling at premium prices and haven't been inclined to
    shift away from the chips which bring the most income.

    The fallacy in that is the thinking that there remains some sort of
    shortage of capacity. If there is no shortage of production
    capacity, they would have to leave facilities idle to continue a
    shortage.

    I'm sure there is plenty of semiconductor fab lines but are there enough >skilled people to run them all? One side effect of Covid-19 (at least in >the UK) has been to cause skilled professionals nearing retirement age
    to retire early taking with them a big chunk of company knowledge.
    Old timers, who often understood electricity and designed things in
    big companies, are indeed retiring, and not being replaced. That is a business opportunity for smaller instrumentation companies.

    I asked TI a simple question about a chip. "That's a Burr-Brown part,
    nobody knows anything about it." Somehow they still fab and test them.

    That's another way of saying, "The part works, we ship a lot of them and don't get enough questions about them to have anyone ramp up on the part. Use it or not. We still sell millions."


    Much like the problems with airport baggage handling there is such a >shortage of workers right now that some plant is being deliberately left >idle to concentrate on making the in demand chips with the highest >margins. Even the mobile phone cycle isn't reliable right now - first >thing people stop buying in a squeeze is replacement mobiles and cars.
    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to
    an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here.
    We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have
    long since stabilized; yet production of many products
    containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.
    I'm not sure that buying habits have stabilised yet. The recent
    near quadrupling of the gas price in Europe has pretty much
    destroyed the disposable income of a large fraction of the
    population here. If I was a chip maker I would be very wary of
    scaling up again at the moment.

    If a loss of demand were a significant impact the shortage would
    already be over.

    I think problems restarting after furlough have proved much more >complicated than anyone anticipated. You only have to look at the
    chaotic scenes at Heathrow or other major airports. Likewise for the
    major ports - not enough people to operate at full capacity. Every stage >in the distribution system is impacted by labour shortages of some sort.
    We have labor shortages everywhere. Construction, restaurant workers, checkout clerks at Safeway. I see HELP WANTED signs is stores
    everywhere. A lot of people are apparently evaluating their options
    and selecting Lying Flat or equivalent. The 40 hour work week in
    exchange for money is in fact a modern, probably unnatural, concept.

    Who would these "Lying Flat" people be? The economy is hot enough for inflation to be rising. Unemployment is below 4%. More and more jobs are added to the economy every month. I don't know who is Lying Flat, but they must have a rich uncle
    supporting them.

    The 40 hour work week is an outgrowth of the need for the workers to share in the benefits of industrialization, rather than simply being beasts of burden, competing with one another by working piecework. It is a natural outgrowth of power arising from
    the masses, rather than only being in the hands of the wealthy.

    --

    Rick C.

    +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Ricky on Wed Aug 17 21:05:28 2022
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:43:57 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

    How about this idea? Let's stay the hell out of wars, ok?

    It's an idea with a bad side effect. Announcing (and implementing) non-preparedness
    for war does not stop a war from happening. Japan, post-WWII, got it to work for a while,
    by hosting a big US presence. That isn't generally thought to be a great solution.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to All on Wed Aug 17 21:31:54 2022
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:05:32 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:43:57 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

    How about this idea? Let's stay the hell out of wars, ok?
    It's an idea with a bad side effect. Announcing (and implementing) non-preparedness
    for war does not stop a war from happening. Japan, post-WWII, got it to work for a while,
    by hosting a big US presence. That isn't generally thought to be a great solution.

    You seem to be talking about something unrelated to what I said.

    --

    Rick C.

    ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Ricky on Thu Aug 18 06:04:37 2022
    On 8/17/2022 9:43 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 12:54:10 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/17/2022 7:24 AM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/16/2022 7:52 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many
    products containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with
    it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become >>>>>> top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!
    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem? Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order?

    My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking
    problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up.
    Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our
    critical chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required
    chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).
    How would you require international companies to build chips in the US?

    I don't what company builds them they need to built here so they can't
    be cut off by
    war, political events, supply ship quarantine.
    Let me ask you, is it good that our National Security that our chips
    are manufactured overseas?
    *Our chips*??? What makes them "our chips"? Someone makes them overseas. We don't have to buy them.
      You are being a fucking idiot, they are our chips because we bought
    them and use them in our products. The chips important to our national
    security
    should be manufactured in the states. A little harder call on chips used
    in industry, but certainly the auto industry has had big problems with
    getting chips,
    and now I'm hearing people on this group talk about chips shortages.
    Where we draw the line to protect our economy, I don't know.
     I have a GMC/Cadillac dealer next to me, during the worst supply
    problems they were down to less than 30 vehicles,  a pre 2018 google
    search shows over 400
    vehicles on their lot. They only had one row of vehicles lined up on the
    main frontage, and they kept getting spaced wider and wider and angled
    more and more.
    About two months ago they did get in enough vehicles to double their
    inventory.



    Excluding economics, is good that our commercial chips are manufactured
    overseas?
    You keep talking as if we own chips. No one is stopping you from building chips in the US. "Build them and they will come."

    How about this idea? Let's stay the hell out of wars, ok?


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to amdx on Thu Aug 18 11:48:27 2022
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 7:04:48 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/17/2022 9:43 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 12:54:10 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/17/2022 7:24 AM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/16/2022 7:52 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many
    products containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with
    it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become
    top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!
    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem? Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order? >>>>>
    My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking >>>> problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up.
    Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our
    critical chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required >>>> chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).
    How would you require international companies to build chips in the US? >>>
    I don't what company builds them they need to built here so they can't
    be cut off by
    war, political events, supply ship quarantine.
    Let me ask you, is it good that our National Security that our chips
    are manufactured overseas?
    *Our chips*??? What makes them "our chips"? Someone makes them overseas. We don't have to buy them.
    You are being a fucking idiot, they are our chips because we bought
    them and use them in our products.

    You are the fucking idiot because you don't understand that we are in a global economy.


    The chips important to our national
    security
    should be manufactured in the states.

    Fine, do that. Let us know when you have the chips for sale.


    A little harder call on chips used
    in industry, but certainly the auto industry has had big problems with getting chips,
    and now I'm hearing people on this group talk about chips shortages.

    You are just hearing about that? It's been discussed here for a least a year.


    Where we draw the line to protect our economy, I don't know.

    Yes, that's true, you don't know. You also don't understand that the US is not an island. We have to sink or swim with the rest of the world.


    I have a GMC/Cadillac dealer next to me, during the worst supply
    problems they were down to less than 30 vehicles, a pre 2018 google
    search shows over 400
    vehicles on their lot. They only had one row of vehicles lined up on the main frontage, and they kept getting spaced wider and wider and angled
    more and more.
    About two months ago they did get in enough vehicles to double their inventory.

    That's your big concern, that your local Cadillac dealer have enough cars at all times? Wow, I guess everyone has their own priorities.


    Excluding economics, is good that our commercial chips are manufactured >> overseas?
    You keep talking as if we own chips. No one is stopping you from building chips in the US. "Build them and they will come."

    How about this idea? Let's stay the hell out of wars, ok?

    No comment, eh? Did you understand what I said?

    --

    Rick C.

    --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Ricky on Thu Aug 18 15:47:55 2022
    On 8/18/2022 1:48 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 7:04:48 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/17/2022 9:43 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 12:54:10 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/17/2022 7:24 AM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/16/2022 7:52 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many
    products containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal with
    it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become >>>>>>>> top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!
    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem? Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order? >>>>>>>
    My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking >>>>>> problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up.
    Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our
    critical chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required >>>>>> chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).
    How would you require international companies to build chips in the US? >>>>>
    I don't what company builds them they need to built here so they can't >>>> be cut off by
    war, political events, supply ship quarantine.
    Let me ask you, is it good that our National Security that our chips
    are manufactured overseas?
    *Our chips*??? What makes them "our chips"? Someone makes them overseas. We don't have to buy them.
    You are being a fucking idiot, they are our chips because we bought
    them and use them in our products.
    You are the fucking idiot because you don't understand that we are in a global economy.


    The chips important to our national
    security
    should be manufactured in the states.
    Fine, do that. Let us know when you have the chips for sale.


    A little harder call on chips used
    in industry, but certainly the auto industry has had big problems with
    getting chips,
    and now I'm hearing people on this group talk about chips shortages.
    You are just hearing about that? It's been discussed here for a least a year.


    Where we draw the line to protect our economy, I don't know.
    Yes, that's true, you don't know. You also don't understand that the US is not an island. We have to sink or swim with the rest of the world.


    I have a GMC/Cadillac dealer next to me, during the worst supply
    problems they were down to less than 30 vehicles, a pre 2018 google
    search shows over 400
    vehicles on their lot. They only had one row of vehicles lined up on the
    main frontage, and they kept getting spaced wider and wider and angled
    more and more.
    About two months ago they did get in enough vehicles to double their
    inventory.
    That's your big concern, that your local Cadillac dealer have enough cars at all times? Wow, I guess everyone has their own priorities.
    Like I said you are a fucking idiot.


    Excluding economics, is good that our commercial chips are manufactured >>>> overseas?
    You keep talking as if we own chips. No one is stopping you from building chips in the US. "Build them and they will come."

    How about this idea? Let's stay the hell out of wars, ok?
    No comment, eh? Did you understand what I said?


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to amdx on Thu Aug 18 14:13:42 2022
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 4:48:03 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/18/2022 1:48 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 7:04:48 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/17/2022 9:43 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 12:54:10 PM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/17/2022 7:24 AM, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:20:30 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote:
    On 8/16/2022 7:52 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 10:43:27 AM UTC-4, amdx wrote: >>>>>>>> On 8/15/2022 3:58 PM, Ricky wrote:
    So, the semiconductor shortage seems to have started as an outcome of a change in buying habits of the public, in response to the pandemic. But why has it continued for so long?

    I get that many economic systems are under damped and respond to an impulse by ringing, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. We are 2.5 years into the pandemic; certainly buying habits have long since stabilized; yet production of many
    products containing semiconductors is still falling short of demand.

    Was there somehow a step increase in demand as a result of the pandemic? Is the industry truly unable to respond and increase production of various components? Why does no one seem to have any idea of how long this will last or how to deal
    with it?

    Maybe slightly off topic, but why hasn't the supply chain issue become
    top priority with the administration.
    I mean gosh, they could have put Kamala in charge!
    Why do people think the President or even Congress can solve every problem? Perhaps you are not aware that the US government only makes laws for the US? The semiconductor shortage is a world wide problem with much of the supply not in the US.

    Are you thinking the US can build a bunch of fabs in short order? >>>>>>>
    My thinking was more about the backup at the ports and the trucking >>>>>> problem.
    I have not looked into it lately, and maybe that has cleared up. >>>>>> Re: the chip problem, it is so short sighted to allow all our
    critical chips to be
    manufactured anywhere but the US. The chip bill should have required >>>>>> chip factories
    to be built here (if it didn't).
    How would you require international companies to build chips in the US?

    I don't what company builds them they need to built here so they can't >>>> be cut off by
    war, political events, supply ship quarantine.
    Let me ask you, is it good that our National Security that our chips >>>> are manufactured overseas?
    *Our chips*??? What makes them "our chips"? Someone makes them overseas. We don't have to buy them.
    You are being a fucking idiot, they are our chips because we bought
    them and use them in our products.
    You are the fucking idiot because you don't understand that we are in a global economy.


    The chips important to our national
    security
    should be manufactured in the states.
    Fine, do that. Let us know when you have the chips for sale.


    A little harder call on chips used
    in industry, but certainly the auto industry has had big problems with
    getting chips,
    and now I'm hearing people on this group talk about chips shortages.
    You are just hearing about that? It's been discussed here for a least a year.


    Where we draw the line to protect our economy, I don't know.
    Yes, that's true, you don't know. You also don't understand that the US is not an island. We have to sink or swim with the rest of the world.


    I have a GMC/Cadillac dealer next to me, during the worst supply
    problems they were down to less than 30 vehicles, a pre 2018 google
    search shows over 400
    vehicles on their lot. They only had one row of vehicles lined up on the >> main frontage, and they kept getting spaced wider and wider and angled
    more and more.
    About two months ago they did get in enough vehicles to double their
    inventory.
    That's your big concern, that your local Cadillac dealer have enough cars at all times? Wow, I guess everyone has their own priorities.
    Like I said you are a fucking idiot.

    In this group, that's much more a self statement. All the total morons have to call other people names rather than actually discuss the issues. Although we haven't heard from profane Phil in a while.

    --

    Rick C.

    --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
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