• Re: I wondered why my garage remote didn't work.

    From John Robertson@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Mon Aug 1 23:01:19 2022
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 2 15:34:00 2022
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 1 23:49:53 2022
    tirsdag den 2. august 2022 kl. 08.01.31 UTC+2 skrev John Robertson:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.
    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).

    leaded solder is fine (and easier) for rework

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Tue Aug 2 17:06:19 2022
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would be the
    tactile switches.

    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Tue Aug 2 09:28:28 2022
    On 02/08/2022 08:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would be the tactile switches.

    Sylvia.

    Maybe the switches are supported at the top by a membrane or buttons?

    Is it possibly the battery could move enough to touch the Xtal?

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Tue Aug 2 20:39:24 2022
    On 2/8/22 17:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would be the tactile switches.

    I've seen something like this. I think the crystal has the highest
    thermal mass (or lowest thermal resistance on its legs) of any SMD part
    on the board (the battery tabs are through-hole) and the solder reflow
    wasn't quite hot enough for long enough, so it got glued down by melted
    flux not melted solder, or the solder remained only sintered so it was weak.

    CH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Tue Aug 2 08:32:45 2022
    Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    Looks like it might have got whacked by the battery when you dropped it
    on the floor.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Tue Aug 2 05:18:09 2022
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 3:06:19 AM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#
    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would be the tactile switches.

    No reason for the switches to fall off. They are always being pressed ONTO the board.

    The crystal solder probably was cracked when it was dropped at one point, but it kept working until both joints failed.


    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rocky@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Tue Aug 2 05:55:12 2022
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 7:33:58 AM UTC+2, Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    The pads on the PCB look dull. As Clifford suggested, maybe the soldering was poor - at least on the crystal. The other joints are bright and look good.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Tue Aug 2 05:57:13 2022
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 6:39:30 AM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 2/8/22 17:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would be the tactile switches.
    I've seen something like this. I think the crystal has the highest
    thermal mass (or lowest thermal resistance on its legs) of any SMD part
    on the board (the battery tabs are through-hole) and the solder reflow
    wasn't quite hot enough for long enough, so it got glued down by melted
    flux not melted solder, or the solder remained only sintered so it was weak.

    Looking at the image in detail, it would appear you are right. The solder doesn't look broken to me, it looks like it molded around the contact, but never was a good solder joint. It probably never really wetted the crystal contacts.


    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Rocky on Tue Aug 2 05:59:54 2022
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 8:55:16 AM UTC-4, Rocky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 7:33:58 AM UTC+2, Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.
    The pads on the PCB look dull. As Clifford suggested, maybe the soldering was poor - at least on the crystal. The other joints are bright and look good.

    My understanding is the bright/dull thing went away with lead free solder. I was shown photos from some document IPC maybe, that showed the most horrible, grainy solder joints as examples of good joints! Hard to tell from the crap joints.


    --

    Rick C.

    -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From legg@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 2 08:50:16 2022
    On Tue, 2 Aug 2022 15:34:00 +1000, Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid>
    wrote:

    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    Probably knocked around during battery replacement.

    RL

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Tue Aug 2 06:22:44 2022
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 1:33:58 AM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Crystal leads were not plated adequately with compatible alloy/metal (copper/silver or alloy) to make a good solder joint, or the part was not stored properly in manufacture and corrosion or oxidation on the leads took place before being soldered to the
    board. You can't make a proper solder joint between any old combination of metals. It's definitely a bad solder joint. Shock effect is not a possibility because a proper joint will tear the board pads off and/or show visible damage to the component
    before it lets loose.



    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Tue Aug 2 06:32:36 2022
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 6:39:30 AM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 2/8/22 17:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would be the tactile switches.
    I've seen something like this. I think the crystal has the highest
    thermal mass (or lowest thermal resistance on its legs) of any SMD part
    on the board (the battery tabs are through-hole) and the solder reflow
    wasn't quite hot enough for long enough, so it got glued down by melted
    flux not melted solder, or the solder remained only sintered so it was weak.

    CH

    That's close but you would think they have all that ironed out after making gazzillions of fobs...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Tue Aug 2 11:38:02 2022
    On Tue, 2 Aug 2022 08:32:45 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    Looks like it might have got whacked by the battery when you dropped it
    on the floor.

    That would be my guess as well.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Tue Aug 2 09:33:02 2022
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:32:39 AM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 6:39:30 AM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 2/8/22 17:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would be the tactile switches.
    I've seen something like this. I think the crystal has the highest
    thermal mass (or lowest thermal resistance on its legs) of any SMD part
    on the board (the battery tabs are through-hole) and the solder reflow wasn't quite hot enough for long enough, so it got glued down by melted flux not melted solder, or the solder remained only sintered so it was weak.

    CH
    That's close but you would think they have all that ironed out after making gazzillions of fobs...

    That's not the way commercial devices work. They make them and keep making them the same way until something forces them to change it. The fact that someone broke their keyfob by dropping it, is not material to them.

    Besides, we haven't seen the case. I'm willing to bet there is a barrier that prevents the batter from contacting the rest of the electronics.


    --

    Rick C.

    -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Tue Aug 2 16:42:03 2022
    Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> wrote in news:jkrra0Faji0U1 @mid.individual.net:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    You can blame RoHs for that. Shitty lead free solder joints nowadays
    get inspected as passed, even when grainy and full of micro-fractures.
    Likely a bad plating on the part legs as well. Does not look like it
    would take many jolts to tear free from the pads.

    Those two tiny pads can be re-soldered with 63/37 tin lead solder and
    it will be reliable. It is allowed for servicing. Use a flux pen to
    wet the pads after you have braid-wiped the them to remove the previous
    solder remnants. Clean up the legs of the part too, but only a quick
    reflow cleaning as it will introduce heat into the part directly.
    Actually the legs look clean enough, maybe look at the bottom side of
    the legs to see if the cladding remained on the board. If so, a re-tin
    is needed and just hope the heat does not cause an internal detachment.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Tue Aug 2 16:44:51 2022
    John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote in news:PDidndcQqqY_IHX_nZ2dnZfqnPqdnZ2d@giganews.com:

    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    Most labs doing service on RoHS lead free assemblies are permitted
    to use 63/37 Tin Lead solders on lead free board for the repair.
    This includes Europe's rules, not just the US.

    Reflow assemblies use lead free OK, but in a repair lab, getting a
    non-grainy connection is not as easy, so most techs use the old tried
    and true and the rules for RoHS allow it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Tue Aug 2 16:48:52 2022
    Clifford Heath <no_spam@please.net> wrote in news:170780f29fb86497$1$1950103$e2dde862@news.thecubenet.com:

    On 2/8/22 17:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would
    be the tactile switches.

    I've seen something like this. I think the crystal has the highest
    thermal mass (or lowest thermal resistance on its legs) of any SMD
    part on the board (the battery tabs are through-hole) and the
    solder reflow wasn't quite hot enough for long enough, so it got
    glued down by melted flux not melted solder, or the solder
    remained only sintered so it was weak.

    CH


    Good analysis. Lead free is a hotter reflow, and cost cutting
    makers spool up their reflow ovens as fast as they can get away with.

    It may have soldered, but the part legs might have poor
    plating/cladding choices made by the maker as well.

    The pads do look like they did not quite reach good reflow temp
    though.

    Use 63/37 to fix. And glue... hot melt should be fine. A dab on
    each long edge.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Ricky on Tue Aug 2 16:52:06 2022
    Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in news:bbc8438b-47dd-456e-b075-fdb5f5f3052dn@googlegroups.com:

    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 3:06:19 AM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#
    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would
    be the tactile switches.

    No reason for the switches to fall off. They are always being
    pressed ONTO the board.

    All the more reason to fall off. You seem unfamiliar with "solder
    creep". Even the axis they get impinged on contributes. They more
    likely simply did solder up right in reflow, whereas these two legs
    did not. One countertop drop is all it takes. And the switches then
    recieve the same side forces then as well.

    The crystal solder probably was cracked when it was dropped at one
    point, but it kept working until both joints failed.

    Looks more like a single event detachment to me.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to All on Tue Aug 2 17:01:51 2022
    Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in news:3715ba7e-c395-4c2d-99d2-1e581eb4e383n@googlegroups.com:

    snip

    Looking at the image in detail, it would appear you are right.
    The solder doesn't look broken to me, it looks like it molded
    around the contact, but never was a good solder joint. It
    probably never really wetted the crystal contacts.


    Blame RoHS. They disrupted the entire industry. Metallic based
    lead is not an environmental hazard. Otherwise the water tables
    around gun ranges (and land fills) would all be overtly contaminated
    and they are not.

    These are typical problems associated with lead free reflow
    soldering, which requires higher temperatures, but faster ovens to
    keep the thermal introduction into the parts low. Caused problems for
    the polymers the industry uses as well. Some no longer work well,
    some no way.

    If the ovens get set too fast a solder joint can appear to be good,
    but not be in actuality. And the acceptance standards allow a grainy
    look to be a pass as well. Both things I do not like to see, and
    this is one very good example of why.

    We do not see any mobo makers running their ovens too fast.

    A tray full of these cheap things though can endure higher fail
    rates both at the factory and in the field, so they crank the ovens
    up to increse output and thus profit from the contractor.

    Also, paste has an aging time limit both for exposed time in use
    and overall expiration time even in storage. So if the paste is out
    too long, flux based reflow failure can mount (or fail to mount).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Ricky on Tue Aug 2 17:03:28 2022
    Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote in news:7915746f-2af8-4401-840f-772a7210f645n@googlegroups.com:

    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 8:55:16 AM UTC-4, Rocky wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 7:33:58 AM UTC+2, Sylvia Else
    wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.
    The pads on the PCB look dull. As Clifford suggested, maybe the
    soldering was poor - at least on the crystal. The other joints
    are bright and look good.

    My understanding is the bright/dull thing went away with lead free
    solder. I was shown photos from some document IPC maybe, that
    showed the most horrible, grainy solder joints as examples of good
    joints! Hard to tell from the crap joints.



    Absolutely correct. It is IPC acceptance. There are multiple
    levels (3), but most commercial follow the easy path.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Tue Aug 2 17:06:57 2022
    Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in news:06hiehdr516bfhjg5ita320pn9q7rb45ht@4ax.com:

    On Tue, 2 Aug 2022 08:32:45 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    Looks like it might have got whacked by the battery when you
    dropped it on the floor.

    That would be my guess as well.

    Joe Gwinn


    The battery looks like it would do it again as well. So it too need
    to fixturing like two 3 or 4mm holes at the free end near the crystal
    and a tiny tie wrap. Or a drop of holt melt small enough to be able
    to be sliced free for replacement.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to DecadentLinux...@decadence.org on Tue Aug 2 10:49:53 2022
    On Tuesday, 2 August 2022 at 18:07:03 UTC+1, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in
    news:06hiehdr516bfhjg5...@4ax.com:
    On Tue, 2 Aug 2022 08:32:45 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    Looks like it might have got whacked by the battery when you
    dropped it on the floor.

    That would be my guess as well.

    Joe Gwinn

    The battery looks like it would do it again as well. So it too need
    to fixturing like two 3 or 4mm holes at the free end near the crystal
    and a tiny tie wrap. Or a drop of holt melt small enough to be able
    to be sliced free for replacement.

    The crystal can looks like it has glass-to-metal seals which will
    probably be made of Covar which needs to be plated to make it
    solderable. As suggested earlier, poor adhesion of the plating
    would give a weak joint. As it is a relatively large component there
    will probably have been considerable stress due to shrinkage of the
    pcb material during cooling after reflow. A mechanical
    shock from dropping the remote would make it ping off.
    John

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  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Wed Aug 3 10:23:46 2022
    On 2/8/22 23:32, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 6:39:30 AM UTC-4, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 2/8/22 17:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would be the
    tactile switches.
    I've seen something like this. I think the crystal has the highest
    thermal mass (or lowest thermal resistance on its legs) of any SMD part
    on the board (the battery tabs are through-hole) and the solder reflow
    wasn't quite hot enough for long enough, so it got glued down by melted
    flux not melted solder, or the solder remained only sintered so it was weak. >>
    CH

    That's close but you would think they have all that ironed out after making gazzillions of fobs...

    99% of them are probably fine. This one was in the cold corner of the
    tray, on a day when all the local a/c units were pulling down the line
    voltage, or some similar thing. Only have to get 90% to pass the
    warranty period - you won't even hear about the 10% because it's less
    hassle to replace the fob than to complain.

    Clifford Heath

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  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Wed Aug 3 11:49:55 2022
    On 02-Aug-22 10:32 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    Looks like it might have got whacked by the battery when you dropped it
    on the floor.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Probably not. The image is a bit misleading. When the board is in the
    case, the battery is constrained to be more central in its circuit board
    slot, and cannot touch the crystal.

    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Tue Aug 2 21:53:19 2022
    Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 10:32 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    Looks like it might have got whacked by the battery when you dropped
    it on the floor.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Probably not. The image is a bit misleading. When the board is in the
    case, the battery is constrained to be more central in its circuit board slot, and cannot touch the crystal.

    Sylvia.

    If you say so. Per the picture, the metal shroud on the negative
    terminal wraps around the wrong side, leaving only the spring to keep
    the battery from hitting the crystal on impact.

    However, assuming the crystal survived, the fix is pretty obvious. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

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  • From Beeper@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Tue Aug 2 19:26:01 2022
    On 8/2/2022 6:53 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 10:32 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    Looks like it might have got whacked by the battery when you dropped
    it on the floor.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Probably not. The image is a bit misleading. When the board is in the
    case, the battery is constrained to be more central in its circuit
    board slot, and cannot touch the crystal.

    Sylvia.

    If you say so.  Per the picture, the metal shroud on the negative
    terminal wraps around the wrong side, leaving only the spring to keep
    the battery from hitting the crystal on impact.

    I suspect that the PCBA is housed in a plastic clam-shell case that may
    very well have interior molded ribs designed to restrict movement of the battery when the remote is fully assembled.

    However, assuming the crystal survived, the fix is pretty obvious. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Tue Aug 2 20:04:44 2022
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 9:53:29 PM UTC-4, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 10:32 pm, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    Looks like it might have got whacked by the battery when you dropped
    it on the floor.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Probably not. The image is a bit misleading. When the board is in the
    case, the battery is constrained to be more central in its circuit board slot, and cannot touch the crystal.

    Sylvia.
    If you say so. Per the picture, the metal shroud on the negative
    terminal wraps around the wrong side, leaving only the spring to keep
    the battery from hitting the crystal on impact.
    You aren't looking at the case!

    --

    Rick C.

    +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Tue Aug 2 20:05:59 2022
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 10:42:15 PM UTC-4, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 3:34 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.
    OK, I've soldered it back, and it works. It remains to be seen whether
    my soldering is better than the original.

    The most difficult aspect was getting it back into its enclosure, which seemed to be designed for assembly in zero-g, by someone with five
    hands, or something.

    That's where they get the lowest labor rates.

    --

    Rick C.

    ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Sylvia Else@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Wed Aug 3 12:42:19 2022
    On 02-Aug-22 3:34 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    OK, I've soldered it back, and it works. It remains to be seen whether
    my soldering is better than the original.

    The most difficult aspect was getting it back into its enclosure, which
    seemed to be designed for assembly in zero-g, by someone with five
    hands, or something.

    Sylvia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Martin Rid@21:1/5 to Sylvia Else on Wed Aug 3 10:58:42 2022
    Sylvia Else <sylvia@email.invalid> Wrote in message:r
    On 02-Aug-22 3:34 pm, Sylvia Else wrote:> So I opened it up.> > https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0> > Seems fairly clear what the problem is.> > By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?> > Sylvia.OK, I've soldered
    it back, and it works. It remains to be seen whether my soldering is better than the original.The most difficult aspect was getting it back into its enclosure, which seemed to be designed for assembly in zero-g, by someone with five hands, or something.
    Sylvia.

    It probably dislodged from thermal cycling. Common problem in the
    auto industry.

    Cheers
    --


    ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

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  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Wed Aug 3 20:17:10 2022
    Clifford Heath <no_spam@please.net> wrote:
    On 2/8/22 17:06, Sylvia Else wrote:
    On 02-Aug-22 4:01 pm, John Robertson wrote:
    On 2022/08/01 10:34 p.m., Sylvia Else wrote:
    So I opened it up.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4qb9x10tnczm3x8/remote.jpg?dl=0

    Seems fairly clear what the problem is.

    By why would the crystal fall off the board like that?

    Sylvia.

    This sort of item should also be secured to the PCB with glue.
    Easy to resolder if you have some lead-free solder (I assume).
    John :-#)#

    Glue wouldn't hurt.

    But if anything was going to fall off, I'd have thought it would be the
    tactile switches.

    I've seen something like this. I think the crystal has the highest
    thermal mass (or lowest thermal resistance on its legs) of any SMD part
    on the board (the battery tabs are through-hole) and the solder reflow
    wasn't quite hot enough for long enough, so it got glued down by melted
    flux not melted solder, or the solder remained only sintered so it was weak.

    Correct. This is a common problem with larger parts, like coin cell
    holders etc. They need more time to heat up so you don't get a cold joint.

    I had a digital clock made by a PCB assembler that I got for free at some
    trade show. Something fell off and I told them about it at the next show I
    ran into them at and they actually offered to RMA and repair it for me as
    they were embarassed about it.

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