• The Biden Administration is winging it about electrification

    From Flyguy@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 29 22:38:13 2022
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Sat Jul 30 09:12:42 2022
    On 30/07/2022 08:51, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    Why bother? The answer is well known, and was posted here years ago - about 30%. An instant google search throws up this

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    Forbes has more recent estimates and it is a bit lower for the US and appreciably lower for the UK.

    The UK electrification is something of a joke. We can barely make enough electricity to provide present needs today. In fact during the recent
    heatwave they had to buy electricity from Belgium on the spot market at
    a price of 50x normal to keep the lights on in London and the SE.

    https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/07/26/uk-bought-electricity-from-belgium-at-record-prices-last-week-to-keep-the-lights-on/

    I expect they would have allowed the grid to shed load had it been short
    supply in the North but London and the Home Counties are sacrosanct.

    So Flyguy is the same ignorant idiot that he has always been. He seems to feel this compulsion to advertise his rapidly advancing dementia, and waste bandwidth in the process. He doesn't need to bother. We've known that he is hopeless twit for quite a
    while now.

    He has a fair point at least in the UK where a lack of investment in electricity generation combined with the dash for gas and the
    mothballing of major gas storage facilities leaves us incredibly exposed
    to the recent fluctuations on spot market prices. Total UK gas storage
    capacity is between 7 and 10 days at most (other EU countries have
    between 30-90 days storage capacity depending on time of year).

    https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2021/09/how-the-uks-low-gas-storage-capacity-leaves-it-vulnerable

    We could be headed for a very interesting winter in Europe when/if Putin
    turns off the Nordstream gas tap completely (as I suspect he will do).

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Jul 30 00:51:20 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    Why bother? The answer is well known, and was posted here years ago - about 30%. An instant google search throws up this

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    Forbes has more recent estimates and it is a bit lower for the US and appreciably lower for the UK.

    So Flyguy is the same ignorant idiot that he has always been. He seems to feel this compulsion to advertise his rapidly advancing dementia, and waste bandwidth in the process. He doesn't need to bother. We've known that he is hopeless twit for quite a
    while now.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Jul 30 09:17:47 2022
    Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote in news:92a7b429-0734-4449-b576-04c2f1aa710fn@googlegroups.com:

    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to
    support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much
    increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your
    answers below.

    I think you are an abject idiot.

    What do you think the charge rate is on an EV? Do you even know?

    The grid supports single source megwatt loads in business hours.
    Pretty sure it can support distributed load sub-station loads in the
    off peak hours.

    The administration that has no clue is the one running in that
    shitpot you call a skull cavity.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Jul 30 05:55:38 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:38:16 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    They have no clue? Really? Do you really think the U.S. government and industry are basically doing nothing that isn't publicized in the media for mentally defectives that you watch?

    DoE (Dept Energy for you) is on it. They formed and coordinated a Grid Integration Tech Team (GITT) and Integrated Systems Analysis Tech Team (ISATT) to tap into the best and most relevant knowledge about the subject. As you might expect, the teams have
    representatives of the electrical power generation industry as they just might have a smidge to do with the actual implementation, don't you think? Looks like the following participated:
    American Electric Power,
    Argonne National Laboratory, BP America, Chevron Corporation, DTE Energy, Duke Energy,
    the Electric Power Research Institute, ExxonMobil Corporation, FCA US LLC, Ford Motor
    Company, General Motors, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Oak Ridge National
    Laboratory, Idaho National Laboratory, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, Phillips 66
    Company, Shell Oil Products U.S., Southern California Edison Company, U.S. Council for
    Automotive Research LLC, the U.S. Department of Energy.
    And each of these participants further tap into fairly vast resources specific to their area of expertise.

    You can read a summary of their work here: https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2019/12/f69/GITT%20ISATT%20EVs%20at%20Scale%20Grid%20Summary%20Report%20FINAL%20Nov2019.pdf

    We'll eagerly await your usual highly detailed and fact based analysis of their work. I'm sure it contains manifold laws you will relish exposing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Jul 30 06:59:30 2022
    On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 10:38:16 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    When i am charging, i am not using the A/C or heating in the office or at home. So, the net electricity usage is the same. EV also use much less electricity to heat or cool.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Sat Jul 30 07:49:34 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 6:12:52 PM UTC+10, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 30/07/2022 08:51, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    Why bother? The answer is well known, and was posted here years ago - about 30%. An instant google search throws up this

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    Forbes has more recent estimates and it is a bit lower for the US and appreciably lower for the UK.
    The UK electrification is something of a joke. We can barely make enough electricity to provide present needs today. In fact during the recent heatwave they had to buy electricity from Belgium on the spot market at
    a price of 50x normal to keep the lights on in London and the SE.

    https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/07/26/uk-bought-electricity-from-belgium-at-record-prices-last-week-to-keep-the-lights-on/

    I expect they would have allowed the grid to shed load had it been short supply in the North but London and the Home Counties are sacrosanct.

    The current UK administration does go in for broad-spectrum incompetence. It wouldn't be all that difficult to clean up electricity generation in the UK but with a clown like Boris Johnson in charge it isn't going to happen until he is replaced, and
    probably by somebody who doesn't appeal to the UK Conservative Party voters. When I worked in the UK - 1971 to 1993 - upper-class twits were an occupational hazard. You had to work around them to get things done.

    Brexit does seem to have made them even more over-confident than they were when I was working there. With any luck the rest of the population will put them back where they belong, as a kind of purely decorative animated bunting, letting them affirm
    national identity without actually doing anything.

    <snip>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to upsid...@downunder.com on Sat Jul 30 08:29:27 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:23:17 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
    <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    For your own calculations to get a ballpark value:

    How much do you drive with your car every year ?

    Divide that by 365 to get how much you drive each day on average.
    Divide that by 24 to get how far you drive each hour on average.

    If you have an EV, check out how far you can drive with 1 kWh.

    Divide the average hour distance with how far you get with 1 kWh. This
    will give the average charging power which is on for 24 hours each day
    for every days of the year. In most cases, the average charging power
    is well below 0.5 kW (500 W). This is the additional power drawn by
    your house.

    Compare those figures if an extra heater/cooler is added to your
    house. Does the network crash by that addition ?

    Good idea.

    I drove around 5000 miles, or 1300 kwhr per year. Around 70 days of a 1kw room heater. May be couple of weeks of whole house heating or cooling.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Jul 30 08:33:39 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:38:16 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at peak time.

    I think we can manage that.

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From upsidedown@downunder.com@21:1/5 to soar2morrow@yahoo.com on Sat Jul 30 18:23:09 2022
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
    <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote:

    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    For your own calculations to get a ballpark value:

    How much do you drive with your car every year ?

    Divide that by 365 to get how much you drive each day on average.
    Divide that by 24 to get how far you drive each hour on average.

    If you have an EV, check out how far you can drive with 1 kWh.

    Divide the average hour distance with how far you get with 1 kWh. This
    will give the average charging power which is on for 24 hours each day
    for every days of the year. In most cases, the average charging power
    is well below 0.5 kW (500 W). This is the additional power drawn by
    your house.

    Compare those figures if an extra heater/cooler is added to your
    house. Does the network crash by that addition ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Sat Jul 30 08:39:09 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 4:12:52 AM UTC-4, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 30/07/2022 08:51, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    Why bother? The answer is well known, and was posted here years ago - about 30%. An instant google search throws up this

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    Forbes has more recent estimates and it is a bit lower for the US and appreciably lower for the UK.
    The UK electrification is something of a joke.

    That has long since been established. I especially like the fact that the UK is building nuclear electricity generation facilities, which come on line years late and hugely over budget. Definitely the smart move when you are already balanced on a knife
    edge.


    We can barely make enough
    electricity to provide present needs today. In fact during the recent heatwave they had to buy electricity from Belgium on the spot market at
    a price of 50x normal to keep the lights on in London and the SE.

    https://www.energylivenews.com/2022/07/26/uk-bought-electricity-from-belgium-at-record-prices-last-week-to-keep-the-lights-on/

    I expect they would have allowed the grid to shed load had it been short supply in the North but London and the Home Counties are sacrosanct.

    I'm glad I spend most of my time in a place that seems advanced compared to the UK, Puerto Rico.


    So Flyguy is the same ignorant idiot that he has always been. He seems to feel this compulsion to advertise his rapidly advancing dementia, and waste bandwidth in the process. He doesn't need to bother. We've known that he is hopeless twit for quite
    a while now.

    He has a fair point at least in the UK where a lack of investment in electricity generation combined with the dash for gas and the
    mothballing of major gas storage facilities leaves us incredibly exposed
    to the recent fluctuations on spot market prices. Total UK gas storage capacity is between 7 and 10 days at most (other EU countries have
    between 30-90 days storage capacity depending on time of year).

    https://www.newstatesman.com/chart-of-the-day/2021/09/how-the-uks-low-gas-storage-capacity-leaves-it-vulnerable

    So the UK is not only in a bad position, they are moving backwards? Wow! It's hard to imagine the UK ever ruling the waves!


    We could be headed for a very interesting winter in Europe when/if Putin turns off the Nordstream gas tap completely (as I suspect he will do).

    Good luck! You are gonna need it!!!

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 30 11:48:17 2022
    In article <a7c42310-3b41-45f9-a4ec-f3dc6a51d0dan@googlegroups.com>, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com says...

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at
    peak time.

    I think we can manage that.




    While the cars are recharged at night, where are all the solar
    generators going to get the sun light to power them ?

    Does the wind blow at night like it does in the daytime ? That I do not
    know.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Sat Jul 30 08:56:39 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:48:32 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <a7c42310-3b41-45f9...@googlegroups.com>,
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at
    peak time.

    I think we can manage that.



    While the cars are recharged at night, where are all the solar
    generators going to get the sun light to power them ?

    Does the wind blow at night like it does in the daytime ? That I do not know.

    Yes it does. Wind blows 24/7.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Ed Lee on Sat Jul 30 08:41:24 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 9:59:33 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 10:38:16 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    When i am charging, i am not using the A/C or heating in the office or at home. So, the net electricity usage is the same. EV also use much less electricity to heat or cool.

    Of course not. You are somewhere along the highway looking for a tow! That's YOUR idea of charging a BEV. LOL

    --

    Rick C.

    -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Ricky on Sat Jul 30 08:55:14 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:41:27 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 9:59:33 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 10:38:16 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    When i am charging, i am not using the A/C or heating in the office or at home. So, the net electricity usage is the same. EV also use much less electricity to heat or cool.
    Of course not. You are somewhere along the highway looking for a tow! That's YOUR idea of charging a BEV. LOL

    Not anymore. I have 70 to 80 miles range. Enough to escape from LA and LV (while skipping Jean and Primm).

    The Terrible Station at Jean is truly terrible. On my way in, it charged me $13 for around 10kwhr. On my way out (with extended battery), both chargers were broken.

    I drove 50 miles plus 2000 feet up to the top of the (local) world with 16% SOC. Still have few miles left. 10% SOC is drop dead state.

    I though you are not reading my posts anymore.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Ed Lee on Sat Jul 30 09:02:08 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 11:29:30 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:23:17 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
    <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    For your own calculations to get a ballpark value:

    How much do you drive with your car every year ?

    Divide that by 365 to get how much you drive each day on average.
    Divide that by 24 to get how far you drive each hour on average.

    If you have an EV, check out how far you can drive with 1 kWh.

    Divide the average hour distance with how far you get with 1 kWh. This
    will give the average charging power which is on for 24 hours each day
    for every days of the year. In most cases, the average charging power
    is well below 0.5 kW (500 W). This is the additional power drawn by
    your house.

    Compare those figures if an extra heater/cooler is added to your
    house. Does the network crash by that addition ?
    Good idea.

    I drove around 5000 miles, or 1300 kwhr per year. Around 70 days of a 1kw room heater. May be couple of weeks of whole house heating or cooling.

    Does that include the energy used in all the tows?

    --

    Rick C.

    ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Ricky on Sat Jul 30 09:05:43 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 9:02:11 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 11:29:30 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:23:17 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
    <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    For your own calculations to get a ballpark value:

    How much do you drive with your car every year ?

    Divide that by 365 to get how much you drive each day on average.
    Divide that by 24 to get how far you drive each hour on average.

    If you have an EV, check out how far you can drive with 1 kWh.

    Divide the average hour distance with how far you get with 1 kWh. This will give the average charging power which is on for 24 hours each day for every days of the year. In most cases, the average charging power
    is well below 0.5 kW (500 W). This is the additional power drawn by
    your house.

    Compare those figures if an extra heater/cooler is added to your
    house. Does the network crash by that addition ?
    Good idea.

    I drove around 5000 miles, or 1300 kwhr per year. Around 70 days of a 1kw room heater. May be couple of weeks of whole house heating or cooling.
    Does that include the energy used in all the tows?

    Yes. I had around 50 miles (including round trip tow trucks) of towing. So, less than one day of room heating.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Ed Lee on Sat Jul 30 09:03:32 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:55:17 AM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:41:27 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 9:59:33 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 10:38:16 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    When i am charging, i am not using the A/C or heating in the office or at home. So, the net electricity usage is the same. EV also use much less electricity to heat or cool.
    Of course not. You are somewhere along the highway looking for a tow! That's YOUR idea of charging a BEV. LOL
    Not anymore. I have 70 to 80 miles range. Enough to escape from LA and LV (while skipping Jean and Primm).

    The Terrible Station at Jean is truly terrible. On my way in, it charged me $13 for around 10kwhr. On my way out (with extended battery), both chargers were broken.

    By the way, EA chargers are still under construction at Primm, but i am not to sure about the CDM plug working from EA. GM/Pilot/Evgo will be building some soon. But Evgo is the most expensive one with $0.6 per kwhr. I might still skip Jean/ Primm
    when they are done


    I drove 50 miles plus 2000 feet up to the top of the (local) world with 16% SOC. Still have few miles left. 10% SOC is drop dead state.

    I though you are not reading my posts anymore.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to upsid...@downunder.com on Sat Jul 30 08:57:25 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 11:23:17 AM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
    <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    For your own calculations to get a ballpark value:

    How much do you drive with your car every year ?

    Divide that by 365 to get how much you drive each day on average.
    Divide that by 24 to get how far you drive each hour on average.

    If you have an EV, check out how far you can drive with 1 kWh.

    Divide the average hour distance with how far you get with 1 kWh. This
    will give the average charging power which is on for 24 hours each day
    for every days of the year. In most cases, the average charging power
    is well below 0.5 kW (500 W). This is the additional power drawn by
    your house.

    Compare those figures if an extra heater/cooler is added to your
    house. Does the network crash by that addition ?

    It's not actually useful to calculate BEV charging as a 24 hour load, mostly because it isn't. Many people won't even charge every day. But the average demand from BEVs will look much like the inverse of the demand load curve for all other uses. There
    will be some use during the day from people charging while driving on trips, but mostly, the demand for charging BEVs will be at night.

    The average daily demand will be 10 kWh per day (14,000 miles per year). So 1 kW for 10 hours at night would do the job just fine. 1 kW is about the load a typical microwave oven uses. If you average it over the full day, like what you did, it is
    about the same as a refrigerator or a hot water heater. However, that's not to say plugging in 250 million new refrigerators would not be a problem for the grid.

    The important point is, this level of use, can be easily accommodated using the slack resources at night. 20% addition to the total demand load can easily be done during the slack time. It's literally a no brainer.

    --

    Rick C.

    -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Sat Jul 30 09:01:02 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 11:48:32 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <a7c42310-3b41-45f9...@googlegroups.com>,
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at
    peak time.

    I think we can manage that.



    While the cars are recharged at night, where are all the solar
    generators going to get the sun light to power them ?

    Does the wind blow at night like it does in the daytime ? That I do not know.

    Lol.

    If you want to use solar power to charge your car, then charge it during the day when the duck curve is low. No one is stopping you.

    You *do* have a BEV, right?

    --

    Rick C.

    +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to Ricky on Sat Jul 30 09:32:40 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:01:06 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 11:48:32 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <a7c42310-3b41-45f9...@googlegroups.com>, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at
    peak time.

    I think we can manage that.



    While the cars are recharged at night, where are all the solar
    generators going to get the sun light to power them ?

    Does the wind blow at night like it does in the daytime ? That I do not know.
    Lol.

    If you want to use solar power to charge your car, then charge it during the day when the duck curve is low. No one is stopping you.

    Care to explain what throttling back the nuclear generator output has to do with anything?


    You *do* have a BEV, right?

    --

    Rick C.

    +- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Ed Lee on Sat Jul 30 09:59:57 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 9:05:47 AM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 9:02:11 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 11:29:30 AM UTC-4, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:23:17 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
    <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    For your own calculations to get a ballpark value:

    How much do you drive with your car every year ?

    Divide that by 365 to get how much you drive each day on average. Divide that by 24 to get how far you drive each hour on average.

    If you have an EV, check out how far you can drive with 1 kWh.

    Divide the average hour distance with how far you get with 1 kWh. This will give the average charging power which is on for 24 hours each day for every days of the year. In most cases, the average charging power is well below 0.5 kW (500 W). This is the additional power drawn by your house.

    Compare those figures if an extra heater/cooler is added to your house. Does the network crash by that addition ?
    Good idea.

    I drove around 5000 miles, or 1300 kwhr per year. Around 70 days of a 1kw room heater. May be couple of weeks of whole house heating or cooling.
    Does that include the energy used in all the tows?
    Yes. I had around 50 miles (including round trip tow trucks) of towing. So, less than one day of room heating.

    My next challenge is to bring the 30 miles (10kwhr) Leaf to Vegas, probably with generator. Lowest i have seen is 8kwhr, on the way to 5. We can restore the main #1 battery to 24 with new pouch cells, but lots of work for 96 modules. It's much easier
    to add #2,#3 and #4.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 30 14:47:23 2022
    In article <669814fe-8865-4857-a8a8-04ff8eef3e8bn@googlegroups.com>, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com says...

    If you want to use solar power to charge your car, then charge it during the day when the duck curve is low. No one is stopping you.

    You *do* have a BEV, right?



    You just said charge at night when the demand is low, now you want to
    charge during the day when the demand is low. What is it demand low at
    night or day in your opinion ?


    I doubt I would ever have a BEV. Not paying thousands more for a car
    over a gas one .
    At my age (72) I may have already bought my last car, a 2017 and 2007
    truck with only 75,000 miles on it. The wife has a 2020 car with less
    than 5000 miles on it. For me, time is too short to worry about when and
    where to plug in and wait while there are plenty of gas stations.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Ed Lee on Sat Jul 30 13:22:54 2022
    On 07/30/2022 09:56 AM, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:48:32 AM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <a7c42310-3b41-45f9...@googlegroups.com>,
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at
    peak time.

    I think we can manage that.



    While the cars are recharged at night, where are all the solar
    generators going to get the sun light to power them ?

    Does the wind blow at night like it does in the daytime ? That I do not
    know.

    Yes it does. Wind blows 24/7.


    Never lived in the desert, did you?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich S@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Jul 30 12:37:20 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 5:38:16 AM UTC, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.


    Speaking for US only, the "Residential", and "Commercial/Public Services" are the roughly at top
    consumers of electricity (each 36-38% of total energy consumed per year). If we've talking about
    electric vehicles, both of those sectors are relevant.

    In the Residential sector, for many homes, typically, the appliance with highest electricity use is
    the refrigerator. (typical ~ exclude extra heating).

    And so the move has been for many years, getting people to replace the old inefficient
    models with modern more efficient ones. Refrigerators & such, via Energy Star program
    have advertised the benefit at retail, when most people make their shopping choices.

    Getting individuals to be aware of how their individual choices impact the collective society, is (ahem)
    quite difficult & touchy, I think we'd all agree......

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Sat Jul 30 13:22:23 2022
    On 07/30/2022 09:48 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <a7c42310-3b41-45f9-a4ec-f3dc6a51d0dan@googlegroups.com>, gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com says...

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at
    peak time.

    I think we can manage that.




    While the cars are recharged at night, where are all the solar
    generators going to get the sun light to power them ?

    Does the wind blow at night like it does in the daytime ? That I do not know.


    In general, no. Excluding weather fronts thermal heating is responsible
    for a lot of air motion. This is particularly noticeable in the desert.
    The wind picks up when the sun rises and usually calms down after
    sunset. If you don't like sand in your hamburgers grill after dark.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 30 15:39:13 2022
    In article <jklenhFa1n6U1@mid.individual.net>, bowman@montana.com
    says...

    In general, no. Excluding weather fronts thermal heating is responsible
    for a lot of air motion. This is particularly noticeable in the desert.
    The wind picks up when the sun rises and usually calms down after
    sunset. If you don't like sand in your hamburgers grill after dark.





    I thought something like that but did not know for sure. My thinking
    was that not too long after sunset there was no heat to make much wind
    where the wind generators would be at.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Sat Jul 30 12:53:21 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <jklenh...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com
    says...

    In general, no. Excluding weather fronts thermal heating is responsible
    for a lot of air motion. This is particularly noticeable in the desert.
    The wind picks up when the sun rises and usually calms down after
    sunset. If you don't like sand in your hamburgers grill after dark.




    I thought something like that but did not know for sure. My thinking
    was that not too long after sunset there was no heat to make much wind
    where the wind generators would be at.

    Perhaps to a lesser degree. But there is wind as long as the Earth is turning. We have rather windy nights near the ocean as well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to richsulinengineer@gmail.com on Sat Jul 30 13:23:53 2022
    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 12:37:20 -0700 (PDT), Rich S
    <richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 5:38:16 AM UTC, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.


    Speaking for US only, the "Residential", and "Commercial/Public Services" are the roughly at top
    consumers of electricity (each 36-38% of total energy consumed per year). If we've talking about
    electric vehicles, both of those sectors are relevant.

    In the Residential sector, for many homes, typically, the appliance with highest electricity use is
    the refrigerator. (typical ~ exclude extra heating).

    And so the move has been for many years, getting people to replace the old inefficient
    models with modern more efficient ones. Refrigerators & such, via Energy Star program
    have advertised the benefit at retail, when most people make their shopping choices.

    Getting individuals to be aware of how their individual choices impact the collective society, is (ahem)
    quite difficult & touchy, I think we'd all agree......


    There is a war on natural gas in several places in California. No gas
    hookups allowed on new construction. They want houses to be all
    electric.

    That could get interesting. And expensive.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From upsidedown@downunder.com@21:1/5 to gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com on Sat Jul 30 23:36:43 2022
    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 08:33:39 -0700 (PDT), Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:38:16 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at peak time.

    Depends on the electric production mix in a particular country.

    If you have plenty of nuclear power, charging by night (and weekends)
    makes perfectly sense.

    However, if you have to use expensive peak power gas turbines during
    the day, extending the high demand to the night would force to use
    these expensive turbines into the night.

    With plenty of solar power, charging during the day is also viable.

    If you live in a sunny area and only drive short distances daily, you
    could even live without external charging :-) :-) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightyear_One
    That car has 5 m^2 solar panels of its own, so it would charge
    batteries with a few hundred watts while driving on a sunny road or
    when parked in a sunny car park.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to upsidedown@downunder.com on Sat Jul 30 13:58:48 2022
    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 23:36:43 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 08:33:39 -0700 (PDT), Ricky ><gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:38:16 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at peak time.

    Depends on the electric production mix in a particular country.

    If you have plenty of nuclear power, charging by night (and weekends)
    makes perfectly sense.

    However, if you have to use expensive peak power gas turbines during
    the day, extending the high demand to the night would force to use
    these expensive turbines into the night.

    With plenty of solar power, charging during the day is also viable.

    If you live in a sunny area and only drive short distances daily, you
    could even live without external charging :-) :-) >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightyear_One
    That car has 5 m^2 solar panels of its own, so it would charge
    batteries with a few hundred watts while driving on a sunny road or
    when parked in a sunny car park.


    Really funny. If the solar panels add 40 miles per day of range, it
    would run about 5 MPH on solar power. In the summer. For $170,000.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sat Jul 30 14:09:56 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:58:57 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 23:36:43 +0300, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 08:33:39 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:38:16 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at peak time.

    Depends on the electric production mix in a particular country.

    If you have plenty of nuclear power, charging by night (and weekends) >makes perfectly sense.

    However, if you have to use expensive peak power gas turbines during
    the day, extending the high demand to the night would force to use
    these expensive turbines into the night.

    With plenty of solar power, charging during the day is also viable.

    If you live in a sunny area and only drive short distances daily, you >could even live without external charging :-) :-) >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightyear_One
    That car has 5 m^2 solar panels of its own, so it would charge
    batteries with a few hundred watts while driving on a sunny road or
    when parked in a sunny car park.
    Really funny. If the solar panels add 40 miles per day of range, it
    would run about 5 MPH on solar power. In the summer. For $170,000.

    The panel itself is only couple hundreds. I think i can put around 2 m^2 on my Leaf, for around $500 at 300W. It will add around 10 miles per day. Actually, i have to worry about overcharging, if I don't drive it for 4 or 5 days.

    I have around 10kW solar panels in storage.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Ed Lee on Sat Jul 30 14:29:16 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 2:09:59 PM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:58:57 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 23:36:43 +0300, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 08:33:39 -0700 (PDT), Ricky ><gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:38:16 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at peak time.

    Depends on the electric production mix in a particular country.

    If you have plenty of nuclear power, charging by night (and weekends) >makes perfectly sense.

    However, if you have to use expensive peak power gas turbines during
    the day, extending the high demand to the night would force to use
    these expensive turbines into the night.

    With plenty of solar power, charging during the day is also viable.

    If you live in a sunny area and only drive short distances daily, you >could even live without external charging :-) :-) >https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightyear_One
    That car has 5 m^2 solar panels of its own, so it would charge
    batteries with a few hundred watts while driving on a sunny road or
    when parked in a sunny car park.
    Really funny. If the solar panels add 40 miles per day of range, it
    would run about 5 MPH on solar power. In the summer. For $170,000.
    The panel itself is only couple hundreds. I think i can put around 2 m^2 on my Leaf, for around $500 at 300W. It will add around 10 miles per day. Actually, i have to worry about overcharging, if I don't drive it for 4 or 5 days.

    I have around 10kW solar panels in storage.

    By the way, you can get 30% solar ITC with 10% to 20% add-on with battery. So, your Uncle Sam will pay half of the cost.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sat Jul 30 18:02:13 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    Why bother? The answer is well known, and was posted here years ago - about 30%. An instant google search throws up this

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    Forbes has more recent estimates and it is a bit lower for the US and appreciably lower for the UK.

    So Flyguy is the same ignorant idiot that he has always been. He seems to feel this compulsion to advertise his rapidly advancing dementia, and waste bandwidth in the process. He doesn't need to bother. We've known that he is hopeless twit for quite a
    while now.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    SNIPPERMAN's mind seems to be clouded by his own dementia, almost as much as Lyin' Biden's.

    The point is that the electrical grid is strained to the max right now, with absolutely NO initiative by Lyin' Biden's administration to fix it. If anything, they are pulling fossil-fueled facilities offline. We are being warned - around the world - of
    this problem: https://www.nerc.com/news/Headlines%20DL/May%2018%202022%20SRA%20Announcement.pdf
    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/06/02/blackout-states-summer-heat/ Even SNIPPERMAN's beloved OZ is not immune: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/australia-power-market-halted-dramatic-move-avert-blackouts-2022-06-15/

    The average home uses 11,000 kwh. If it added two EVs driven a total of 15,000 miles that would add another 5,200 kwh, for a total of 16,200 kwh. As there are 140 million homes in the US, that would add 730 BILLION kwh to the grid. As total demand is
    about 3.9 trillion kwh, this represents a 19% increase in unplanned for demand.

    Given that we are at the breaking point now, and that there are no new generating facilities planned for other than undispatchable renewables, and aging plants are being shut down, we are headed for a crisis. Actually, we are ALREADY in a crisis.

    Note: instantaneous charging capacity is a red herring, and the province of fools.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to upsid...@downunder.com on Sat Jul 30 18:25:50 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:23:17 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
    <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    For your own calculations to get a ballpark value:

    How much do you drive with your car every year ?

    Divide that by 365 to get how much you drive each day on average.
    Divide that by 24 to get how far you drive each hour on average.

    If you have an EV, check out how far you can drive with 1 kWh.

    Divide the average hour distance with how far you get with 1 kWh. This
    will give the average charging power which is on for 24 hours each day
    for every days of the year. In most cases, the average charging power
    is well below 0.5 kW (500 W). This is the additional power drawn by
    your house.

    Compare those figures if an extra heater/cooler is added to your
    house. Does the network crash by that addition ?

    You make things FAR TOO COMPLICATED! The average EV uses 0.346 kwh/mi. The average home drives 15,000 miles per year, for 5190 kwh. The average home, less EVs, consumes 11000 kwh, so switching to EVs will increase the average home's energy consumption by
    47% (this may be low because it doesn't account for conversion inefficiencies, so it could be above 50%). So, FORGET about where they use their electricity - that just muddles the analysis.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Sat Jul 30 18:18:02 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 5:55:41 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:38:16 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    They have no clue? Really? Do you really think the U.S. government and industry are basically doing nothing that isn't publicized in the media for mentally defectives that you watch?

    DoE (Dept Energy for you) is on it. They formed and coordinated a Grid Integration Tech Team (GITT) and Integrated Systems Analysis Tech Team (ISATT) to tap into the best and most relevant knowledge about the subject. As you might expect, the teams
    have representatives of the electrical power generation industry as they just might have a smidge to do with the actual implementation, don't you think? Looks like the following participated:
    American Electric Power,
    Argonne National Laboratory, BP America, Chevron Corporation, DTE Energy, Duke Energy,
    the Electric Power Research Institute, ExxonMobil Corporation, FCA US LLC, Ford Motor
    Company, General Motors, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Oak Ridge National
    Laboratory, Idaho National Laboratory, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, Phillips 66
    Company, Shell Oil Products U.S., Southern California Edison Company, U.S. Council for
    Automotive Research LLC, the U.S. Department of Energy.
    And each of these participants further tap into fairly vast resources specific to their area of expertise.

    You can read a summary of their work here: https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2019/12/f69/GITT%20ISATT%20EVs%20at%20Scale%20Grid%20Summary%20Report%20FINAL%20Nov2019.pdf

    We'll eagerly await your usual highly detailed and fact based analysis of their work. I'm sure it contains manifold laws you will relish exposing.

    What that summary fails to say ANYTHING about are brownouts and blackouts (I searched for it), which is the crisis facing us RIGHT NOW! Adding more electrical loads are just going to make this crisis worse. This report is just another example where they
    decided on the conclusion and wrote a piece of shit to back it up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ed Lee@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Jul 30 18:46:03 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 6:25:53 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:23:17 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
    <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    For your own calculations to get a ballpark value:

    How much do you drive with your car every year ?

    Divide that by 365 to get how much you drive each day on average.
    Divide that by 24 to get how far you drive each hour on average.

    If you have an EV, check out how far you can drive with 1 kWh.

    Divide the average hour distance with how far you get with 1 kWh. This will give the average charging power which is on for 24 hours each day
    for every days of the year. In most cases, the average charging power
    is well below 0.5 kW (500 W). This is the additional power drawn by
    your house.

    Compare those figures if an extra heater/cooler is added to your
    house. Does the network crash by that addition ?
    You make things FAR TOO COMPLICATED! The average EV uses 0.346 kwh/mi. The average home drives 15,000 miles per year, for 5190 kwh. The average home, less EVs, consumes 11000 kwh, so switching to EVs will increase the average home's energy consumption
    by 47% (this may be low because it doesn't account for conversion inefficiencies, so it could be above 50%). So, FORGET about where they use their electricity - that just muddles the analysis.

    15,000 miles may be on the high side. I personally drove around 5,000 per year.

    11000 kwh per yr -> 30 kwh per day -> 1200w per hour -> 10A average. Most house have 200A panel. Using only 5% seems too low.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to Ed Lee on Sat Jul 30 19:09:24 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 6:46:06 PM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 6:25:53 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 8:23:17 AM UTC-7, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:38:13 -0700 (PDT), Flyguy
    <soar2...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    For your own calculations to get a ballpark value:

    How much do you drive with your car every year ?

    Divide that by 365 to get how much you drive each day on average.
    Divide that by 24 to get how far you drive each hour on average.

    If you have an EV, check out how far you can drive with 1 kWh.

    Divide the average hour distance with how far you get with 1 kWh. This will give the average charging power which is on for 24 hours each day for every days of the year. In most cases, the average charging power
    is well below 0.5 kW (500 W). This is the additional power drawn by
    your house.

    Compare those figures if an extra heater/cooler is added to your
    house. Does the network crash by that addition ?
    You make things FAR TOO COMPLICATED! The average EV uses 0.346 kwh/mi. The average home drives 15,000 miles per year, for 5190 kwh. The average home, less EVs, consumes 11000 kwh, so switching to EVs will increase the average home's energy
    consumption by 47% (this may be low because it doesn't account for conversion inefficiencies, so it could be above 50%). So, FORGET about where they use their electricity - that just muddles the analysis.
    15,000 miles may be on the high side. I personally drove around 5,000 per year.

    11000 kwh per yr -> 30 kwh per day -> 1200w per hour -> 10A average. Most house have 200A panel. Using only 5% seems too low.

    That data maybe low - if you search for "average household car mileage" you get miles driven per DRIVER, not household. Men drive more miles than women, so if you add the two together 15,000 is a reasonable, and certainly not high, number per household.
    Of course, some will drive more and some less. In any case, it gives an approximate number for doing the whole USA calculation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Jul 30 19:14:43 2022
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    Why bother? The answer is well known, and was posted here years ago - about 30%. An instant google search throws up this

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    Forbes has more recent estimates and it is a bit lower for the US and appreciably lower for the UK.

    So Flyguy is the same ignorant idiot that he has always been. He seems to feel this compulsion to advertise his rapidly advancing dementia, and waste bandwidth in the process. He doesn't need to bother. We've known that he is hopeless twit for quite
    a while now.

    Sloman's mind seems to be clouded by his own dementia, almost as much as Lyin' Biden's.

    Which is to say, not at all. Trump falsely claimed that Bidenm was suffering from dementia, and Flyguy is silly enough to believe him. Both Flyguy and Trump believe what it suits them to believe, and ignore inconvneient realities

    The point is that the electrical grid is strained to the max right now, with absolutely NO initiative by Lyin' Biden's administration to fix it. If anything, they are pulling fossil-fueled facilities offline. We are being warned - around the world - of
    this problem:
    https://www.nerc.com/news/Headlines%20DL/May%2018%202022%20SRA%20Announcement.pdf

    Global warming does put the US grid under strain - it wasn't designed to cope with the extra air-conditioning load that unexpectedl hot weather imposes.

    It's not hard to fix - solar cells generate power cheaply, during the day when the sun is shining and pushing up the demand for air-conditioning. They generate electricty more cheaply than any other power source, so the only problem is buying the solar
    cells and hooking them up to the grid (which takes time and costs money)

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/06/02/blackout-states-summer-heat/

    Even Sloman's beloved OZ is not immune: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/australia-power-market-halted-dramatic-move-avert-blackouts-2022-06-15/

    It wasn't global warming that created that problem - a bunch the old coal-fired power generating plants so beloved by the previous National-Liberal government (who got voted out in May for this and other incompetence) all broke down at the same time.
    Getting the expensive gas-fired generators all fired up at the same time cost money.

    The electricity generating utility companies are investing in new wind turbines and solar farms - and the grid scale batteries to fill in the gaps - because this is now the cheapest way of generating electricity, but this does take time and costs money.
    They do like shutting down old and unreliable coal-fired generating stations which produce expensive electricity when they are working, and buy coal from the mining interests who have the National-Liberal conservative party in their hip pocket - we don't
    ship all our coal to China (or at least not yet).

    The average home uses 11,000 kwh. If it added two EVs driven a total of 15,000 miles that would add another 5,200 kwh, for a total of 16,200 kwh. As there are 140 million homes in the US, that would add 730 BILLION kwh to the grid. As total demand is
    about 3.9 trillion kwh, this represents a 19% increase in unplanned for demand.

    The US electricity generating capacity went up by 69 billion killowatt hours per year from 1950 to 2000 from about 400 billion in 1950 to about 3,800 billion in 2000

    https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us-generation-capacity-and-sales.php

    It has levelled off since then, probably because industry has got more efficient, but adding another 730 billion kilowatt hours of capacity as the population moved to electric cars isn't going to be difficult, and the only way that this could be
    unplanned would be if the people running the utility generating companies were as stupid as you are.

    This is one market that can really exploit solar generation - you can charge you car while it is parked during the day (and cars spend 95% of their time parked), and of course parked cars could be exploited as grid scale batteries, not that electric car
    owners are all that enthusiastic about that idea at the moment (though they might get happier with it if paid enough to take part).

    Given that we are at the breaking point now, and that there are no new generating facilities planned for other than undispatchable renewables, and aging plants are being shut down, we are headed for a crisis. Actually, we are ALREADY in a crisis.

    The utility companies haven't invested enough in grid scale batteries so far, but electric vehicle drivers may do it for them.

    Complaining about the way you run your grid - after you privatised it under Reagan, and did it inexpertly enough that ENRON ripped you off- is just evidence of your terminal incompetence. If you looked a the way other countries do it, you might be able
    to find a scheme worth copying. American exceptionalism does offer an excuse for not doing that, but that's just one more aspect of your terminal incompetence.

    Note: instantaneous charging capacity is a red herring, and the province of fools.

    Instant charging is handy on long trips. It does depend on the charging station having an even bigger battery than your car, so it s going to be an expensive convenience, but there's nothing foolish about spending extra money to solve the occasional
    short term problem.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sat Jul 30 22:00:27 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    Why bother? The answer is well known, and was posted here years ago - about 30%. An instant google search throws up this

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    Forbes has more recent estimates and it is a bit lower for the US and appreciably lower for the UK.

    So Flyguy is the same ignorant idiot that he has always been. He seems to feel this compulsion to advertise his rapidly advancing dementia, and waste bandwidth in the process. He doesn't need to bother. We've known that he is hopeless twit for
    quite a while now.

    Sloman's mind seems to be clouded by his own dementia, almost as much as Lyin' Biden's.

    Which is to say, not at all. Trump falsely claimed that Bidenm was suffering from dementia, and Flyguy is silly enough to believe him. Both Flyguy and Trump believe what it suits them to believe, and ignore inconvneient realities
    The point is that the electrical grid is strained to the max right now, with absolutely NO initiative by Lyin' Biden's administration to fix it. If anything, they are pulling fossil-fueled facilities offline. We are being warned - around the world -
    of this problem:
    https://www.nerc.com/news/Headlines%20DL/May%2018%202022%20SRA%20Announcement.pdf
    Global warming does put the US grid under strain - it wasn't designed to cope with the extra air-conditioning load that unexpectedl hot weather imposes.

    It's not hard to fix - solar cells generate power cheaply, during the day when the sun is shining and pushing up the demand for air-conditioning. They generate electricty more cheaply than any other power source, so the only problem is buying the solar
    cells and hooking them up to the grid (which takes time and costs money)

    https://www.washingtonpost.com/business/2022/06/02/blackout-states-summer-heat/

    Even Sloman's beloved OZ is not immune: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/australia-power-market-halted-dramatic-move-avert-blackouts-2022-06-15/

    It wasn't global warming that created that problem - a bunch the old coal-fired power generating plants so beloved by the previous National-Liberal government (who got voted out in May for this and other incompetence) all broke down at the same time.
    Getting the expensive gas-fired generators all fired up at the same time cost money.

    The electricity generating utility companies are investing in new wind turbines and solar farms - and the grid scale batteries to fill in the gaps - because this is now the cheapest way of generating electricity, but this does take time and costs money.
    They do like shutting down old and unreliable coal-fired generating stations which produce expensive electricity when they are working, and buy coal from the mining interests who have the National-Liberal conservative party in their hip pocket - we don'
    t ship all our coal to China (or at least not yet).
    The average home uses 11,000 kwh. If it added two EVs driven a total of 15,000 miles that would add another 5,200 kwh, for a total of 16,200 kwh. As there are 140 million homes in the US, that would add 730 BILLION kwh to the grid. As total demand is
    about 3.9 trillion kwh, this represents a 19% increase in unplanned for demand.
    The US electricity generating capacity went up by 69 billion killowatt hours per year from 1950 to 2000 from about 400 billion in 1950 to about 3,800 billion in 2000

    https://www.eia.gov/energyexplained/electricity/electricity-in-the-us-generation-capacity-and-sales.php

    It has levelled off since then, probably because industry has got more efficient, but adding another 730 billion kilowatt hours of capacity as the population moved to electric cars isn't going to be difficult, and the only way that this could be
    unplanned would be if the people running the utility generating companies were as stupid as you are.

    This is one market that can really exploit solar generation - you can charge you car while it is parked during the day (and cars spend 95% of their time parked), and of course parked cars could be exploited as grid scale batteries, not that electric
    car owners are all that enthusiastic about that idea at the moment (though they might get happier with it if paid enough to take part).
    Given that we are at the breaking point now, and that there are no new generating facilities planned for other than undispatchable renewables, and aging plants are being shut down, we are headed for a crisis. Actually, we are ALREADY in a crisis.
    The utility companies haven't invested enough in grid scale batteries so far, but electric vehicle drivers may do it for them.

    Complaining about the way you run your grid - after you privatised it under Reagan, and did it inexpertly enough that ENRON ripped you off- is just evidence of your terminal incompetence. If you looked a the way other countries do it, you might be able
    to find a scheme worth copying. American exceptionalism does offer an excuse for not doing that, but that's just one more aspect of your terminal incompetence.
    Note: instantaneous charging capacity is a red herring, and the province of fools.
    Instant charging is handy on long trips. It does depend on the charging station having an even bigger battery than your car, so it s going to be an expensive convenience, but there's nothing foolish about spending extra money to solve the occasional
    short term problem.

    --
    SNIPPERMAN, Sydney

    SNIPPERMAN is living in LA-LA Land. No, solar cells ARE NOT going to bridge the gap in electrical power demand growth. SNIPPERMAN has a child-like faith in renewables that doesn't match reality. Renewables aren't growing fast enough to even meet the
    growth in energy demand. And Europe has discovered the folly of depending upon nondispatchable energy sources. This hit Europe HARD last winter:
    https://time.com/6124191/winter-europe-energy/
    The Woke crowd simply can't listen to reason. Like SNIPPERMAN they think that it will all just, somehow, work out.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Sat Jul 30 21:40:26 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:32:43 PM UTC-4, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:01:06 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 11:48:32 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <a7c42310-3b41-45f9...@googlegroups.com>, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at
    peak time.

    I think we can manage that.



    While the cars are recharged at night, where are all the solar generators going to get the sun light to power them ?

    Does the wind blow at night like it does in the daytime ? That I do not know.
    Lol.

    If you want to use solar power to charge your car, then charge it during the day when the duck curve is low. No one is stopping you.
    Care to explain what throttling back the nuclear generator output has to do with anything?

    Perhaps you can explain the context? I don't see where anyone has mentioned the nuclear reactors, at least in this subthread.

    --

    Rick C.

    --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Sat Jul 30 21:51:43 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 2:47:30 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <669814fe-8865-4857...@googlegroups.com>,
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...

    If you want to use solar power to charge your car, then charge it during the day when the duck curve is low. No one is stopping you.

    You *do* have a BEV, right?


    You just said charge at night when the demand is low, now you want to
    charge during the day when the demand is low. What is it demand low at
    night or day in your opinion ?

    Perhaps you are not familiar with the fact that the electric demand curve has a peak around 6-8 pm. During the night, demand is much lower. During the day, demand is generally lower, but can be a lot lower, depending on the amount of solar generation
    there is. On sunny days in California (the state with the most BEVs) the demand curve drops significantly from solar generation, creating what is called a "duck" curve.

    Look it up. You can probably learn a lot if you try reading about it.


    I doubt I would ever have a BEV. Not paying thousands more for a car
    over a gas one .

    I think that is a wise idea for you. You probably would not be able to adapt to a change in paradigm. By the time electric cars have pushed out the ICE in 20 years, you will be long dead. Essentially, nothing you do from this point on will make any
    difference to anyone. No one cares what you do.


    At my age (72) I may have already bought my last car, a 2017 and 2007
    truck with only 75,000 miles on it. The wife has a 2020 car with less
    than 5000 miles on it. For me, time is too short to worry about when and where to plug in and wait while there are plenty of gas stations.

    Just don't live too long. In 10 to 15 years, you will find the number of gas stations to decline seriously. But then you probably won't still be driving, and possibly not much else either. Yeah, your life expectancy is only 13 more years. Enjoy it
    while you can. If your wife is the same age, she will likely get to see the gas stations mostly closed.

    --

    Rick C.

    --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat Jul 30 22:06:06 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:22:32 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/30/2022 09:48 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <a7c42310-3b41-45f9...@googlegroups.com>, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at
    peak time.

    I think we can manage that.




    While the cars are recharged at night, where are all the solar
    generators going to get the sun light to power them ?

    Does the wind blow at night like it does in the daytime ? That I do not know.

    In general, no. Excluding weather fronts thermal heating is responsible
    for a lot of air motion. This is particularly noticeable in the desert.
    The wind picks up when the sun rises and usually calms down after
    sunset. If you don't like sand in your hamburgers grill after dark.

    Not sure where you get your data. The daily wind profile varies a lot depending on location.

    This one shows a typical profile of lower wind during mid day.

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile/G-Ermolenko/publication/315613300/figure/fig7/AS:661215160320011@1534657387778/Daily-power-output-curves-unit-capacity-factor-by-3-MW-wind-turbines-at-the-height-of.png

    This one shows pretty constant wind speeds over the ocean.

    https://www.kyos.com/ppa-insight-on-solar-radiation-and-wind-speed-data/

    Of course, all of these are at an altitude that suits windmills and is different from the surface speeds.

    --

    Rick C.

    --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Ed Lee on Sat Jul 30 23:12:19 2022
    On 07/30/2022 01:53 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:39:19 PM UTC-7, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <jklenh...@mid.individual.net>, bow...@montana.com
    says...

    In general, no. Excluding weather fronts thermal heating is responsible
    for a lot of air motion. This is particularly noticeable in the desert.
    The wind picks up when the sun rises and usually calms down after
    sunset. If you don't like sand in your hamburgers grill after dark.




    I thought something like that but did not know for sure. My thinking
    was that not too long after sunset there was no heat to make much wind
    where the wind generators would be at.

    Perhaps to a lesser degree. But there is wind as long as the Earth is turning. We have rather windy nights near the ocean as well.


    Throw in the ocean and you have a whole different set of conditions.

    You need a physics 101 brush up too. The rotation brings the Coriolis
    Effect into play, and controls the daily local heating but you're still
    talking temperature gradients. When I was about 5 I thought the trees
    caused wind by moving their branches but then I got a little better
    grasp on reality. I also thought cows were female horses and cats were
    female dogs and I got that straightened out. Sadly a lot of people
    haven't gotten past gender confusion.

    https://www.cactushugs.com/coachella-valley-winds-explained/

    That's about San Gorgonio pass but a similar dynamic applies to Altamont
    and Tehachapi. It's slightly different in desert areas with flatter
    terrain because you're not getting the funnel effect.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to Ricky on Sat Jul 30 22:06:28 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 9:51:46 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 2:47:30 PM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <669814fe-8865-4857...@googlegroups.com>, gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...

    If you want to use solar power to charge your car, then charge it during the day when the duck curve is low. No one is stopping you.

    You *do* have a BEV, right?


    You just said charge at night when the demand is low, now you want to charge during the day when the demand is low. What is it demand low at night or day in your opinion ?
    Perhaps you are not familiar with the fact that the electric demand curve has a peak around 6-8 pm. During the night, demand is much lower. During the day, demand is generally lower, but can be a lot lower, depending on the amount of solar generation
    there is. On sunny days in California (the state with the most BEVs) the demand curve drops significantly from solar generation, creating what is called a "duck" curve.

    Look it up. You can probably learn a lot if you try reading about it.
    I doubt I would ever have a BEV. Not paying thousands more for a car
    over a gas one .
    I think that is a wise idea for you. You probably would not be able to adapt to a change in paradigm. By the time electric cars have pushed out the ICE in 20 years, you will be long dead. Essentially, nothing you do from this point on will make any
    difference to anyone. No one cares what you do.
    At my age (72) I may have already bought my last car, a 2017 and 2007 truck with only 75,000 miles on it. The wife has a 2020 car with less
    than 5000 miles on it. For me, time is too short to worry about when and where to plug in and wait while there are plenty of gas stations.
    Just don't live too long. In 10 to 15 years, you will find the number of gas stations to decline seriously. But then you probably won't still be driving, and possibly not much else either. Yeah, your life expectancy is only 13 more years. Enjoy it
    while you can. If your wife is the same age, she will likely get to see the gas stations mostly closed.

    --

    Rick C.

    --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    I think that it is you that better worry: the number of EV charging stations is not going to keep up with the growth of EVs. And pity the poor dolt that lives in an apartment and must depend upon public charging stations that will be over-whelmed with
    like citizens. Same thing goes when you are on the road and are forced to wait in line for hours to charge your EV while I spend 5 min to fill up at a gas station.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Ed Lee on Sat Jul 30 23:15:32 2022
    On 07/30/2022 03:29 PM, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 2:09:59 PM UTC-7, Ed Lee wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:58:57 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 23:36:43 +0300, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:

    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 08:33:39 -0700 (PDT), Ricky
    <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:38:16 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at peak time.

    Depends on the electric production mix in a particular country.

    If you have plenty of nuclear power, charging by night (and weekends)
    makes perfectly sense.

    However, if you have to use expensive peak power gas turbines during
    the day, extending the high demand to the night would force to use
    these expensive turbines into the night.

    With plenty of solar power, charging during the day is also viable.

    If you live in a sunny area and only drive short distances daily, you
    could even live without external charging :-) :-)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lightyear_One
    That car has 5 m^2 solar panels of its own, so it would charge
    batteries with a few hundred watts while driving on a sunny road or
    when parked in a sunny car park.
    Really funny. If the solar panels add 40 miles per day of range, it
    would run about 5 MPH on solar power. In the summer. For $170,000.
    The panel itself is only couple hundreds. I think i can put around 2 m^2 on my Leaf, for around $500 at 300W. It will add around 10 miles per day. Actually, i have to worry about overcharging, if I don't drive it for 4 or 5 days.

    I have around 10kW solar panels in storage.

    By the way, you can get 30% solar ITC with 10% to 20% add-on with battery. So, your Uncle Sam will pay half of the cost.


    No, I'll pay half the cost. Sam is a deadbeat and doesn't work for a
    living unless you call the Mafia style collection racket work.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From upsidedown@downunder.com@21:1/5 to bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com on Sun Jul 31 09:02:07 2022
    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 09:32:40 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:01:06 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 11:48:32 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <a7c42310-3b41-45f9...@googlegroups.com>,
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at
    peak time.

    I think we can manage that.



    While the cars are recharged at night, where are all the solar
    generators going to get the sun light to power them ?

    Does the wind blow at night like it does in the daytime ? That I do not
    know.
    Lol.

    If you want to use solar power to charge your car, then charge it during the day when the duck curve is low. No one is stopping you.

    Care to explain what throttling back the nuclear generator output has to do with anything?

    In countries with lots of nuclear capacity (like France), they have to
    throttle back some nuclear reactors during the weekends due to lower consumption. Thus, in such countries, it makes sense to concentrate EV
    charging to the weekends (and also ordinary nights).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to upsid...@downunder.com on Sat Jul 30 23:31:41 2022
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 2:02:14 AM UTC-4, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 09:32:40 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:01:06 PM UTC-4, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 11:48:32 AM UTC-4, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <a7c42310-3b41-45f9...@googlegroups.com>,
    gnuarm.del...@gmail.com says...

    When all cars are BEVs, it will result in a 20% increase in total electrical generation from today's levels.

    More than 95% of BEV charging is done at night, during the slack time of electrical demand. This 95+% will not require any additional generation or transmission capability. The remaining <5% of 20% or <1% of charging will be at peak time. So the
    existing grid will need to grow by 1% to accommodate charging that will happen at
    peak time.

    I think we can manage that.



    While the cars are recharged at night, where are all the solar
    generators going to get the sun light to power them ?

    Does the wind blow at night like it does in the daytime ? That I do not >> > know.
    Lol.

    If you want to use solar power to charge your car, then charge it during the day when the duck curve is low. No one is stopping you.

    Care to explain what throttling back the nuclear generator output has to do with anything?
    In countries with lots of nuclear capacity (like France), they have to throttle back some nuclear reactors during the weekends due to lower consumption. Thus, in such countries, it makes sense to concentrate EV charging to the weekends (and also ordinary nights).

    They actually do little to throttle back their nukes. They have smaller daily variations in demand load and manage that through 30% other generation sources.

    --

    Rick C.

    -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Jul 31 01:12:35 2022
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

    Sloman is living in LA-LA Land. No, solar cells ARE NOT going to bridge the gap in electrical power demand growth.

    One has to wonder why Flyguy thinks that.

    Sloman has a child-like faith in renewables that doesn't match reality.

    Flyguy has no connection with any kind of reality.

    Renewables aren't growing fast enough to even meet the growth in energy demand.

    Renewables provided 826 billion kW.hrs in 2021 (in a total or 4.100 billion), up from 381 billion kW.hrs in 2008. Solar cells got a lot cheaper when China started producing cheap relatively high efficiency solar cells in tens time the volume that anybody
    had before

    https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/documenting-a-decade-of-cost-declines-for-pv-systems.html

    Somebody needs to invest even more in making them in much higher volume - only about 1% of global electricity production comes from solar cells, and they are quite a bit cheaper than every other source, so there is a huge market out there.

    And Europe has discovered the folly of depending upon nondispatchable energy sources.

    The folly is not investing in grid scale batteries when you start relaying on wind and solar for an appreciable part of your generation.

    This hit Europe HARD last winter:
    https://time.com/6124191/winter-europe-energy/

    Read what you post. It's dated 28th November, 2021 1:16 PM EST before winter had actually hit. It was simple alarmism.

    The Woke crowd simply can't listen to reason. Like Sloman they think that it will all just, somehow, work out.

    As if Flyguy could produce or comprehend a reasoned argument. He quotes an alarmist forecast from last November, and thinks that that reflects what actually happened.

    Nobody is saying that it isn't going to take work to move the generation system to the point where it can rely on mainly renewable sources, and they've got to be capable of supplying a a higher peak current, and storing a lot of it for a day or two, in
    a way the current system can't manage.

    It helps that renewable electricity is quite a bit cheaper than power from any other sources - though Flyguy doesn't seem to have noticed this, even if the Australian generating industry won't invest in any other generating capacity because its too
    expensive - but it is going to take time.

    Flyguy can't learn anything new and doesn't think than anybody else can do any better. He's clearly not "woke" and doesn't seem to have been awake for years now.

    There's no claim that it "will all just somehow work out". There is a claim that if we spend quite a lot of money on the right hardware, it will actually work out, but Flyguy is much too dim to have any clue about how much money or what kind of hardware.

    He also thinks that a transition to electric vehicles will overload the electricity generating system, even though he couldn't look up the predictions of how much it would load the generating system, nor notice that the extra load for the US would be
    about ten years worth of the annual growth from 1950 to 2000, while electric cars are gong to take more than ten years to entirely take over the car market.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Jul 31 06:36:41 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 9:18:06 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 5:55:41 AM UTC-7, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 1:38:16 AM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    They have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots. How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below.
    They have no clue? Really? Do you really think the U.S. government and industry are basically doing nothing that isn't publicized in the media for mentally defectives that you watch?

    DoE (Dept Energy for you) is on it. They formed and coordinated a Grid Integration Tech Team (GITT) and Integrated Systems Analysis Tech Team (ISATT) to tap into the best and most relevant knowledge about the subject. As you might expect, the teams
    have representatives of the electrical power generation industry as they just might have a smidge to do with the actual implementation, don't you think? Looks like the following participated:
    American Electric Power,
    Argonne National Laboratory, BP America, Chevron Corporation, DTE Energy, Duke Energy,
    the Electric Power Research Institute, ExxonMobil Corporation, FCA US LLC, Ford Motor
    Company, General Motors, the National Renewable Energy Laboratory, Oak Ridge National
    Laboratory, Idaho National Laboratory, Pacific Northwest National Laboratory, Phillips 66
    Company, Shell Oil Products U.S., Southern California Edison Company, U.S. Council for
    Automotive Research LLC, the U.S. Department of Energy.
    And each of these participants further tap into fairly vast resources specific to their area of expertise.

    You can read a summary of their work here: https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2019/12/f69/GITT%20ISATT%20EVs%20at%20Scale%20Grid%20Summary%20Report%20FINAL%20Nov2019.pdf

    We'll eagerly await your usual highly detailed and fact based analysis of their work. I'm sure it contains manifold laws you will relish exposing.

    What that summary fails to say ANYTHING about are brownouts and blackouts (I searched for it), which is the crisis facing us RIGHT NOW! Adding more electrical loads are just going to make this crisis worse. This report is just another example where
    they decided on the conclusion and wrote a piece of shit to back it up.

    The main power provider in Florida claims 99.98% reliability, which I take to mean availability- it's there when you want it. There are a bunch of causes totally outside the control of the power company that can make the power go down. The power provider
    then needs to switch distribution around to maintain system stability- avoid things like an overload that cascades into a massive blackout that takes a real long time to fix. You are right about observing the relation between more grid infrastructure and
    vulnerability to failures. That's just the laws of chance, and since everything is so interconnected, what is perceived as a small local failure turning into a seemingly system wide shortfall makes people think it's a capacity problem.
    https://www.fpl.com/reliability/power-disturbances/flickers.html

    Western U.S. and the central plains states, do have a capacity problem. They're still learning the ins and outs of reliably integrating renewables into their grids. NERC has major heartburn with the inverter technology used. It's going to take a awhile
    for them to get it right.

    A major challenge in the U.S. is that, with the exception of a few government owned utilities like the TVA, government can't order private enterprise to build excess capacity and transmission infrastructure.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sun Jul 31 19:41:08 2022
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    Sloman is living in LA-LA Land. No, solar cells ARE NOT going to bridge the gap in electrical power demand growth.

    One has to wonder why Flyguy thinks that.

    Sloman has a child-like faith in renewables that doesn't match reality.

    Flyguy has no connection with any kind of reality.

    No, that would be YOU, SNIPPERMAN. The reality is that Europe has already experienced a near-total electrical grid blackout because of the dependence on renewables. Adding significantly more loads will make this inevitable.

    Renewables aren't growing fast enough to even meet the growth in energy demand.
    Renewables provided 826 billion kW.hrs in 2021 (in a total or 4.100 billion), up from 381 billion kW.hrs in 2008. Solar cells got a lot cheaper when China started producing cheap relatively high efficiency solar cells in tens time the volume that
    anybody had before

    https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/documenting-a-decade-of-cost-declines-for-pv-systems.html

    Investments simply are not being made to meet future electricity demands, and this is WITHOUT the added loads that Lyin' Biden and the rest of the Woke crowd want to throw into the mix. And the shortfall is not minor - it is HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF
    DOLLARS: https://www.ebp-us.com/en/projects/failure-act-electric-infrastructure-investment-gaps-rapidly-changing-environment-2020


    Somebody needs to invest even more in making them in much higher volume - only about 1% of global electricity production comes from solar cells, and they are quite a bit cheaper than every other source, so there is a huge market out there.
    And Europe has discovered the folly of depending upon nondispatchable energy sources.
    The folly is not investing in grid scale batteries when you start relaying on wind and solar for an appreciable part of your generation.
    This hit Europe HARD last winter:
    https://time.com/6124191/winter-europe-energy/
    Read what you post. It's dated 28th November, 2021 1:16 PM EST before winter had actually hit. It was simple alarmism.

    You might try READING the article as well as looking at the date. The lack of wind has already hit the UK, TWICE!
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/29/sse-says-low-wind-dry-conditions-hit-renewable-energy-generation.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/27/uk-summer-wind-drought-puts-green-revolution-into-reverse


    The Woke crowd simply can't listen to reason. Like Sloman they think that it will all just, somehow, work out.

    As if Flyguy could produce or comprehend a reasoned argument. He quotes an alarmist forecast from last November, and thinks that that reflects what actually happened.

    Well, SNIPPERMAN, I am STILL waiting for you to make one. You have exactly the same plan for expanding electric generation and transmission as Lyin' Biden does - NONE AT ALL!


    Nobody is saying that it isn't going to take work to move the generation system to the point where it can rely on mainly renewable sources, and they've got to be capable of supplying a a higher peak current, and storing a lot of it for a day or two, in
    a way the current system can't manage.

    As I pointed out, there is a huge shortfall in the investment required to make this happen. Plus, the Woke crowd is throwing all sorts of permitting roadblocks in the way.


    It helps that renewable electricity is quite a bit cheaper than power from any other sources - though Flyguy doesn't seem to have noticed this, even if the Australian generating industry won't invest in any other generating capacity because its too
    expensive - but it is going to take time.

    Flyguy can't learn anything new and doesn't think than anybody else can do any better. He's clearly not "woke" and doesn't seem to have been awake for years now.

    I can "learn" that there ARE NO plans in place to make this happen. If you know of any then CITE THEM.


    There's no claim that it "will all just somehow work out". There is a claim that if we spend quite a lot of money on the right hardware, it will actually work out, but Flyguy is much too dim to have any clue about how much money or what kind of
    hardware.

    Sorry, SNIPPERMAN, but I cited a reference above (unlike you) that makes this very clear.


    He also thinks that a transition to electric vehicles will overload the electricity generating system, even though he couldn't look up the predictions of how much it would load the generating system, nor notice that the extra load for the US would be
    about ten years worth of the annual growth from 1950 to 2000, while electric cars are gong to take more than ten years to entirely take over the car market.

    Hey SNIPPERMAN, I already did that calculation (again, unlike you). And our system is ALREADY overloaded without ANY new loads:
    "Ahead of summer 2022, federal officials have released several warnings about anticipated reliability risks and higher electricity prices compared to 2021."
    https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11943

    "Midcontinent ISO (MISO) faces a capacity shortfall in its North and Central areas, resulting
    in high risk of energy emergencies during peak summer conditions"
    "Extreme drought across much of Texas can produce weather conditions that are favorable to prolonged, wide-area heat events and extreme peak electricity demand." https://www.nerc.com/pa/RAPA/ra/Reliability%20Assessments%20DL/NERC_SRA_2022.pdf

    And the USA and Europe aren't the only ones: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/australians-urged-save-electricity-ease-power-crunch-2022-06-16/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Jul 31 22:01:59 2022
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    Sloman is living in LA-LA Land. No, solar cells ARE NOT going to bridge the gap in electrical power demand growth.

    One has to wonder why Flyguy thinks that.

    Sloman has a child-like faith in renewables that doesn't match reality.

    Flyguy has no connection with any kind of reality.

    No, that would be you Sloman.

    Gnatguy does love his delusions.

    The reality is that Europe has already experienced a near-total electrical grid blackout because of the dependence on renewables.

    You posted an alarmist link claiming that it might. When I was there in the UK and the Netherlands - in May and June this year, nobody was complaining that it had.
    You are just as full of shit as ever.

    Adding significantly more loads will make this inevitable.

    Rubbish.

    Renewables aren't growing fast enough to even meet the growth in energy demand.

    You've got to spend money to install the capacity you are going to need. Renewable energy supply doesn't grow at any kind of arbitrary rate that's easy to predict - it grows because people invest in installing more solar farms and wind turbines. More
    money means more power, and you aren't stuck with installing it in huge chunks - you can build up the capacity in lots of little increments, which is exactly what is happening.

    Renewables provided 826 billion kW.hrs in 2021 (in a total or 4.100 billion), up from 381 billion kW.hrs in 2008. Solar cells got a lot cheaper when China started producing cheap relatively high efficiency solar cells in tens time the volume that
    anybody had before

    https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/documenting-a-decade-of-cost-declines-for-pv-systems.html

    Investments simply are not being made to meet future electricity demands, and this is WITHOUT the added loads that Lyin' Biden and the rest of the Woke crowd want to throw into the mix. And the shortfall is not minor - it is HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF
    DOLLARS:
    https://www.ebp-us.com/en/projects/failure-act-electric-infrastructure-investment-gaps-rapidly-changing-environment-2020

    They aren't being made as fast as the people who sell the infra-structure would like - they'd like the government to give them even more money to spend, and they aren't likely to say that their industry is making more money than they'd like.

    Somebody needs to invest even more in making them in much higher volume - only about 1% of global electricity production comes from solar cells, and they are quite a bit cheaper than every other source, so there is a huge market out there.

    And Europe has discovered the folly of depending upon nondispatchable energy sources.
    The folly is not investing in grid scale batteries when you start relaying on wind and solar for an appreciable part of your generation.
    This hit Europe HARD last winter:
    https://time.com/6124191/winter-europe-energy/
    Read what you post. It's dated 28th November, 2021 1:16 PM EST before winter had actually hit. It was simple alarmism.

    You might try READING the article as well as looking at the date. The lack of wind has already hit the UK, TWICE!
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/29/sse-says-low-wind-dry-conditions-hit-renewable-energy-generation.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/27/uk-summer-wind-drought-puts-green-revolution-into-reverse

    It happens, but not very often. It's not an an excuse to give up on renewable energy, which is remarkably cheap when the wind is blowing ant the sun is shining.

    The Woke crowd simply can't listen to reason. Like Sloman they think that it will all just, somehow, work out.

    As if Flyguy could produce or comprehend a reasoned argument. He quotes an alarmist forecast from last November, and thinks that that reflects what actually happened.

    Well, Sloman, I am STILL waiting for you to make one.

    Which is to say you imagine that you could process it or even recognise it as reasonable if you ran into it.

    You have exactly the same plan for expanding electric generation and transmission as Lyin' Biden does - NONE AT ALL!

    Since your capacity to understand any such plan is absolutely zero, it's no surprise that you can't recognise the plans that do exist.

    Nobody is saying that it isn't going to take work to move the generation system to the point where it can rely on mainly renewable sources, and they've got to be capable of supplying a a higher peak current, and storing a lot of it for a day or two,
    in a way the current system can't manage.

    As I pointed out, there is a huge shortfall in the investment required to make this happen. Plus, the Woke crowd is throwing all sorts of permitting roadblocks in the way.

    You didn't. You posted a link to a report from an industry group that makes money out of this kind of investment and would like to see even more of it.

    It helps that renewable electricity is quite a bit cheaper than power from any other sources - though Flyguy doesn't seem to have noticed this, even if the Australian generating industry won't invest in any other generating capacity because its too
    expensive - but it is going to take time.

    Flyguy can't learn anything new and doesn't think than anybody else can do any better. He's clearly not "woke" and doesn't seem to have been awake for years now.

    I can "learn" that there ARE NO plans in place to make this happen. If you know of any then CITE THEM.

    Why bother? You wouldn't be able to make sense of them if I did.

    There's no claim that it "will all just somehow work out". There is a claim that if we spend quite a lot of money on the right hardware, it will actually work out, but Flyguy is much too dim to have any clue about how much money or what kind of
    hardware.

    Sorry, Sloman, but I cited a reference above (unlike you) that makes this very clear.

    Gnatguy can always read any document as supporting his preferred point of view. He can't understand what they actually say, but he can always misunderstand them in a way that he finds comforting.

    He also thinks that a transition to electric vehicles will overload the electricity generating system, even though he couldn't look up the predictions of how much it would load the generating system, nor notice that the extra load for the US would be
    about ten years worth of the annual growth from 1950 to 2000, while electric cars are gong to take more than ten years to entirely take over the car market.

    Hey Sloman, I already did that calculation (again, unlike you).

    So why were you asking us to do it for you?

    And our system is ALREADY overloaded without ANY new loads:
    "Ahead of summer 2022, federal officials have released several warnings about anticipated reliability risks and higher electricity prices compared to 2021."
    https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11943

    "Midcontinent ISO (MISO) faces a capacity shortfall in its North and Central areas, resulting
    in high risk of energy emergencies during peak summer conditions"
    "Extreme drought across much of Texas can produce weather conditions that are
    favorable to prolonged, wide-area heat events and extreme peak electricity demand." https://www.nerc.com/pa/RAPA/ra/Reliability%20Assessments%20DL/NERC_SRA_2022.pdf

    And nobody wants to spend extra money on installing a bit more generating capacity than they won't be able to keep on exploiting 100% of the time.

    And the USA and Europe aren't the only ones: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/australians-urged-save-electricity-ease-power-crunch-2022-06-16/

    That was aging and unreliable coal-fired generating plants all being unreliable at once. Nothing to do with renewables - though if the previous Australian administration had subsdised renewable generation with the same enthusiasm as they'd insisted that
    the ageing coal-fired plants weren't retired there might have been enough extra generating capacity spread around the country to carry the load.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Mon Aug 1 11:28:45 2022
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    Sloman is living in LA-LA Land. No, solar cells ARE NOT going to bridge the gap in electrical power demand growth.

    One has to wonder why Flyguy thinks that.

    Sloman has a child-like faith in renewables that doesn't match reality.

    Flyguy has no connection with any kind of reality.
    No, that would be you Sloman.

    Gnatguy does love his delusions.
    The reality is that Europe has already experienced a near-total electrical grid blackout because of the dependence on renewables.
    You posted an alarmist link claiming that it might. When I was there in the UK and the Netherlands - in May and June this year, nobody was complaining that it had.
    You are just as full of shit as ever.
    Adding significantly more loads will make this inevitable.
    Rubbish.
    Renewables aren't growing fast enough to even meet the growth in energy demand.
    You've got to spend money to install the capacity you are going to need. Renewable energy supply doesn't grow at any kind of arbitrary rate that's easy to predict - it grows because people invest in installing more solar farms and wind turbines. More
    money means more power, and you aren't stuck with installing it in huge chunks - you can build up the capacity in lots of little increments, which is exactly what is happening.
    Renewables provided 826 billion kW.hrs in 2021 (in a total or 4.100 billion), up from 381 billion kW.hrs in 2008. Solar cells got a lot cheaper when China started producing cheap relatively high efficiency solar cells in tens time the volume that
    anybody had before

    https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/documenting-a-decade-of-cost-declines-for-pv-systems.html

    Investments simply are not being made to meet future electricity demands, and this is WITHOUT the added loads that Lyin' Biden and the rest of the Woke crowd want to throw into the mix. And the shortfall is not minor - it is HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF
    DOLLARS:
    https://www.ebp-us.com/en/projects/failure-act-electric-infrastructure-investment-gaps-rapidly-changing-environment-2020
    They aren't being made as fast as the people who sell the infra-structure would like - they'd like the government to give them even more money to spend, and they aren't likely to say that their industry is making more money than they'd like.
    Somebody needs to invest even more in making them in much higher volume - only about 1% of global electricity production comes from solar cells, and they are quite a bit cheaper than every other source, so there is a huge market out there.

    And Europe has discovered the folly of depending upon nondispatchable energy sources.
    The folly is not investing in grid scale batteries when you start relaying on wind and solar for an appreciable part of your generation.
    This hit Europe HARD last winter:
    https://time.com/6124191/winter-europe-energy/
    Read what you post. It's dated 28th November, 2021 1:16 PM EST before winter had actually hit. It was simple alarmism.

    You might try READING the article as well as looking at the date. The lack of wind has already hit the UK, TWICE!
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/29/sse-says-low-wind-dry-conditions-hit-renewable-energy-generation.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/27/uk-summer-wind-drought-puts-green-revolution-into-reverse
    It happens, but not very often. It's not an an excuse to give up on renewable energy, which is remarkably cheap when the wind is blowing ant the sun is shining.

    CONGRATULATIONS! You finally ADMIT that energy crises ARE happening!! And they will happen more frequently as we continue to put loads onto the electrical grid at a faster rate than we are adding generation and transmission capacity.

    The Woke crowd simply can't listen to reason. Like Sloman they think that it will all just, somehow, work out.

    As if Flyguy could produce or comprehend a reasoned argument. He quotes an alarmist forecast from last November, and thinks that that reflects what actually happened.

    Well, Sloman, I am STILL waiting for you to make one.

    Which is to say you imagine that you could process it or even recognise it as reasonable if you ran into it.

    Lame excuse for not presenting one. The truth is that you DON'T have a plan.

    You have exactly the same plan for expanding electric generation and transmission as Lyin' Biden does - NONE AT ALL!
    Since your capacity to understand any such plan is absolutely zero, it's no surprise that you can't recognise the plans that do exist.

    So WHY don't you present one? You can't is the answer.

    Nobody is saying that it isn't going to take work to move the generation system to the point where it can rely on mainly renewable sources, and they've got to be capable of supplying a a higher peak current, and storing a lot of it for a day or two,
    in a way the current system can't manage.

    As I pointed out, there is a huge shortfall in the investment required to make this happen. Plus, the Woke crowd is throwing all sorts of permitting roadblocks in the way.
    You didn't. You posted a link to a report from an industry group that makes money out of this kind of investment and would like to see even more of it.

    False equivalency. By this logic, ANY professional group's opinion will be rejected by you.

    It helps that renewable electricity is quite a bit cheaper than power from any other sources - though Flyguy doesn't seem to have noticed this, even if the Australian generating industry won't invest in any other generating capacity because its too
    expensive - but it is going to take time.

    Flyguy can't learn anything new and doesn't think than anybody else can do any better. He's clearly not "woke" and doesn't seem to have been awake for years now.

    I can "learn" that there ARE NO plans in place to make this happen. If you know of any then CITE THEM.
    Why bother? You wouldn't be able to make sense of them if I did.
    There's no claim that it "will all just somehow work out". There is a claim that if we spend quite a lot of money on the right hardware, it will actually work out, but Flyguy is much too dim to have any clue about how much money or what kind of
    hardware.

    Sorry, Sloman, but I cited a reference above (unlike you) that makes this very clear.

    Gnatguy can always read any document as supporting his preferred point of view. He can't understand what they actually say, but he can always misunderstand them in a way that he finds comforting.

    More of SNIPPERMAN's demented ramblings that make no sense whatsoever.

    He also thinks that a transition to electric vehicles will overload the electricity generating system, even though he couldn't look up the predictions of how much it would load the generating system, nor notice that the extra load for the US would
    be about ten years worth of the annual growth from 1950 to 2000, while electric cars are gong to take more than ten years to entirely take over the car market.

    Hey Sloman, I already did that calculation (again, unlike you).

    So why were you asking us to do it for you?

    To get you to commit to an actual calculation, which you DID NOT DO! If you did do it, you would see the extent of the problem facing us. And you can't hardly deny your OWN NUMBERS, and you don't find ANY fault with mine!!

    And our system is ALREADY overloaded without ANY new loads:
    "Ahead of summer 2022, federal officials have released several warnings about anticipated reliability risks and higher electricity prices compared to 2021."
    https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11943

    "Midcontinent ISO (MISO) faces a capacity shortfall in its North and Central areas, resulting
    in high risk of energy emergencies during peak summer conditions"
    "Extreme drought across much of Texas can produce weather conditions that are
    favorable to prolonged, wide-area heat events and extreme peak electricity demand." https://www.nerc.com/pa/RAPA/ra/Reliability%20Assessments%20DL/NERC_SRA_2022.pdf
    And nobody wants to spend extra money on installing a bit more generating capacity than they won't be able to keep on exploiting 100% of the time.

    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    And the USA and Europe aren't the only ones: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/australians-urged-save-electricity-ease-power-crunch-2022-06-16/
    That was aging and unreliable coal-fired generating plants all being unreliable at once. Nothing to do with renewables - though if the previous Australian administration had subsdised renewable generation with the same enthusiasm as they'd insisted
    that the ageing coal-fired plants weren't retired there might have been enough extra generating capacity spread around the country to carry the load.

    Hey SNIPPERMAN, it is ALL OF THE ABOVE! The Woke crowd wants to replace these aging plants with an even MORE unreliable source: renewables. And there IS NO PLAN to do even that.


    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Mon Aug 1 19:33:53 2022
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 11:28:48 AM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:


    And nobody wants to spend extra money on installing a bit more generating capacity than they won't be able to keep on exploiting 100% of the time.
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Huh? Our ancestors were hunter-gatherers, omnivores, who relied on... dozens of unreliable food
    sources. A statistical near-certainty of sufficency is all we humans will ever get, so learn to
    live with it. Everyone does.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Mon Aug 1 19:23:14 2022
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    Sloman is living in LA-LA Land. No, solar cells ARE NOT going to bridge the gap in electrical power demand growth.

    One has to wonder why Flyguy thinks that.

    Sloman has a child-like faith in renewables that doesn't match reality.

    Flyguy has no connection with any kind of reality.

    No, that would be you Sloman.

    Gnatguy does love his delusions.

    The reality is that Europe has already experienced a near-total electrical grid blackout because of the dependence on renewables.

    You posted an alarmist link claiming that it might. When I was there in the UK and the Netherlands - in May and June this year, nobody was complaining that it had.
    You are just as full of shit as ever.

    Adding significantly more loads will make this inevitable.

    Rubbish.

    Renewables aren't growing fast enough to even meet the growth in energy demand.

    You've got to spend money to install the capacity you are going to need. Renewable energy supply doesn't grow at any kind of arbitrary rate that's easy to predict - it grows because people invest in installing more solar farms and wind turbines. More
    money means more power, and you aren't stuck with installing it in huge chunks - you can build up the capacity in lots of little increments, which is exactly what is happening.

    Renewables provided 826 billion kW.hrs in 2021 (in a total or 4.100 billion), up from 381 billion kW.hrs in 2008. Solar cells got a lot cheaper when China started producing cheap relatively high efficiency solar cells in tens time the volume that
    anybody had before

    https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/documenting-a-decade-of-cost-declines-for-pv-systems.html

    Investments simply are not being made to meet future electricity demands, and this is WITHOUT the added loads that Lyin' Biden and the rest of the Woke crowd want to throw into the mix. And the shortfall is not minor - it is HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS OF
    DOLLARS:
    https://www.ebp-us.com/en/projects/failure-act-electric-infrastructure-investment-gaps-rapidly-changing-environment-2020

    They aren't being made as fast as the people who sell the infra-structure would like - they'd like the government to give them even more money to spend, and they aren't likely to say that their industry is making more money than they'd like.

    Somebody needs to invest even more in making them in much higher volume - only about 1% of global electricity production comes from solar cells, and they are quite a bit cheaper than every other source, so there is a huge market out there.

    And Europe has discovered the folly of depending upon nondispatchable energy sources.

    The folly is not investing in grid scale batteries when you start relaying on wind and solar for an appreciable part of your generation.
    This hit Europe HARD last winter:
    https://time.com/6124191/winter-europe-energy/
    Read what you post. It's dated 28th November, 2021 1:16 PM EST before winter had actually hit. It was simple alarmism.

    You might try READING the article as well as looking at the date. The lack of wind has already hit the UK, TWICE!
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/29/sse-says-low-wind-dry-conditions-hit-renewable-energy-generation.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/27/uk-summer-wind-drought-puts-green-revolution-into-reverse

    It happens, but not very often. It's not an an excuse to give up on renewable energy, which is remarkably cheap when the wind is blowing ant the sun is shining.

    CONGRATULATIONS! You finally ADMIT that energy crises ARE happening!!

    It wasn't any kind of "energy crisis". It was just a brief and predictable occasional local shortfall in supply. Europe has transnational high-voltage links to shoip power from areas that still have power to areas that have that kind short term problem.
    It takes an idiot like you to promote it in a "crisis".

    And they will happen more frequently as we continue to put loads onto the electrical grid at a faster rate than we are adding generation and transmission capacity.

    Happily, the people who plan the expansion of the grid pay attention to the way the market can be expected to expand. Clowns like you may apply for that kind of job, but they don't get hired to do it. The US grid supplied some 800 billion kilowatt hours
    in 950 and was supplying some 4,000 billion in 2000, when industry started getting more efficient, so the market stopped expanding - at least for a while. The switch from gasoline-power top electric cars will call for another 1200 billion kilowatt hours
    of capacity over the next decade or so, and there will be entrepreneurs out there investing in being able to supply it (probably from solar farms).

    And there will be clowns like you telling us that it couldn't possible happen, while your pension fund will be investing in making it happenm

    The Woke crowd simply can't listen to reason. Like Sloman they think that it will all just, somehow, work out.

    As if Flyguy could produce or comprehend a reasoned argument. He quotes an alarmist forecast from last November, and thinks that that reflects what actually happened.

    Well, Sloman, I am STILL waiting for you to make one.

    Which is to say you imagine that you could process it or even recognise it as reasonable if you ran into it.

    Lame excuse for not presenting one. The truth is that you DON'T have a plan.

    Of course I don't. I invest in companies that do - they do exist. Your pension fund will too, even if you haven't got a clue about it.

    You have exactly the same plan for expanding electric generation and transmission as Lyin' Biden does - NONE AT ALL!

    Since your capacity to understand any such plan is absolutely zero, it's no surprise that you can't recognise the plans that do exist.

    So WHY don't you present one? You can't is the answer.

    If I had billions to invest, I would. As it is, I invest in companies that do. You want to a prospectus? Search the web yourself.

    Nobody is saying that it isn't going to take work to move the generation system to the point where it can rely on mainly renewable sources, and they've got to be capable of supplying a a higher peak current, and storing a lot of it for a day or
    two, in a way the current system can't manage.

    As I pointed out, there is a huge shortfall in the investment required to make this happen. Plus, the Woke crowd is throwing all sorts of permitting roadblocks in the way.

    You didn't. You posted a link to a report from an industry group that makes money out of this kind of investment and would like to see even more of it.

    False equivalency. By this logic, ANY professional group's opinion will be rejected by you.

    They weren't actually talking a bout any "huge shortfall" - they'd just like to see more inverstment. As usual you were misrepresenting what they said to fit with you bizarre delusions.

    It helps that renewable electricity is quite a bit cheaper than power from any other sources - though Flyguy doesn't seem to have noticed this, even if the Australian generating industry won't invest in any other generating capacity because its
    too expensive - but it is going to take time.

    Flyguy can't learn anything new and doesn't think than anybody else can do any better. He's clearly not "woke" and doesn't seem to have been awake for years now.

    I can "learn" that there ARE NO plans in place to make this happen. If you know of any then CITE THEM.

    Of course you can "learn" this. You can't understand the plans that do exist, and it would be a complete waste of time to provide links to site that you couldn't comprehend, and would write off for some bogus reason or other.

    Why bother? You wouldn't be able to make sense of them if I did.

    There's no claim that it "will all just somehow work out". There is a claim that if we spend quite a lot of money on the right hardware, it will actually work out, but Flyguy is much too dim to have any clue about how much money or what kind of
    hardware.

    Sorry, Sloman, but I cited a reference above (unlike you) that makes this very clear.

    Gnatguy can always read any document as supporting his preferred point of view. He can't understand what they actually say, but he can always misunderstand them in a way that he finds comforting.

    More of Sloman's demented ramblings that make no sense whatsoever.

    None so blind as those that do not wish to see. Not that Gnatguy can comprehend much at the best of times.

    He also thinks that a transition to electric vehicles will overload the electricity generating system, even though he couldn't look up the predictions of how much it would load the generating system, nor notice that the extra load for the US
    would be about ten years worth of the annual growth from 1950 to 2000, while electric cars are gong to take more than ten years to entirely take over the car market.

    Hey Sloman, I already did that calculation (again, unlike you).

    So why were you asking us to do it for you?

    To get you to commit to an actual calculation, which you DID NOT DO! If you did do it, you would see the extent of the problem facing us. And you can't hardly deny your OWN NUMBERS, and you don't find ANY fault with mine!!

    Since the result of that calculation has been posted here years ago, and are widely available on the web, what you were actually doing was just reminding us that you are the same pig-ignorant idiot that you have always been.

    And our system is ALREADY overloaded without ANY new loads:
    "Ahead of summer 2022, federal officials have released several warnings about anticipated reliability risks and higher electricity prices compared to 2021."
    https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11943

    "Midcontinent ISO (MISO) faces a capacity shortfall in its North and Central areas, resulting
    in high risk of energy emergencies during peak summer conditions" "Extreme drought across much of Texas can produce weather conditions that are
    favorable to prolonged, wide-area heat events and extreme peak electricity
    demand." https://www.nerc.com/pa/RAPA/ra/Reliability%20Assessments%20DL/NERC_SRA_2022.pdf

    And nobody wants to spend extra money on installing a bit more generating capacity than they won't be able to keep on exploiting 100% of the time.

    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links to let you
    average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    Turning a less than perfectly reliable generation system into a reliable grid supply is something that we have been doing for more than a century now. It takes more engineering to cope day-to-night fluctuations than it did to cope with coal-fired
    generators that broke down, but it's just engineering, not miracle working.

    And the USA and Europe aren't the only ones: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/australians-urged-save-electricity-ease-power-crunch-2022-06-16/

    That was aging and unreliable coal-fired generating plants all being unreliable at once. Nothing to do with renewables - though if the previous Australian administration had subsdised renewable generation with the same enthusiasm as they'd insisted
    that the ageing coal-fired plants weren't retired there might have been enough extra generating capacity spread around the country to carry the load.

    Hey Sloman, it is ALL OF THE ABOVE! The Woke crowd wants to replace these aging plants with an even MORE unreliable source: renewables.

    They aren't unreliable in the same way, and they resume generating a lot more reliably and predictably than wonky old coal-fired plants

    And there IS NO PLAN to do even that.

    https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/snowy-20/about/

    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to understand it if I
    could find a link to one of them.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Wed Aug 3 10:55:26 2022
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    Sloman is living in LA-LA Land. No, solar cells ARE NOT going to bridge the gap in electrical power demand growth.

    One has to wonder why Flyguy thinks that.

    Sloman has a child-like faith in renewables that doesn't match reality.

    Flyguy has no connection with any kind of reality.

    No, that would be you Sloman.

    Gnatguy does love his delusions.

    The reality is that Europe has already experienced a near-total electrical grid blackout because of the dependence on renewables.

    You posted an alarmist link claiming that it might. When I was there in the UK and the Netherlands - in May and June this year, nobody was complaining that it had.
    You are just as full of shit as ever.

    Adding significantly more loads will make this inevitable.

    Rubbish.

    Renewables aren't growing fast enough to even meet the growth in energy demand.

    You've got to spend money to install the capacity you are going to need. Renewable energy supply doesn't grow at any kind of arbitrary rate that's easy to predict - it grows because people invest in installing more solar farms and wind turbines.
    More money means more power, and you aren't stuck with installing it in huge chunks - you can build up the capacity in lots of little increments, which is exactly what is happening.

    Renewables provided 826 billion kW.hrs in 2021 (in a total or 4.100 billion), up from 381 billion kW.hrs in 2008. Solar cells got a lot cheaper when China started producing cheap relatively high efficiency solar cells in tens time the volume
    that anybody had before

    https://www.nrel.gov/news/program/2021/documenting-a-decade-of-cost-declines-for-pv-systems.html

    Investments simply are not being made to meet future electricity demands, and this is WITHOUT the added loads that Lyin' Biden and the rest of the Woke crowd want to throw into the mix. And the shortfall is not minor - it is HUNDREDS OF BILLIONS
    OF DOLLARS:
    https://www.ebp-us.com/en/projects/failure-act-electric-infrastructure-investment-gaps-rapidly-changing-environment-2020

    They aren't being made as fast as the people who sell the infra-structure would like - they'd like the government to give them even more money to spend, and they aren't likely to say that their industry is making more money than they'd like.

    Somebody needs to invest even more in making them in much higher volume - only about 1% of global electricity production comes from solar cells, and they are quite a bit cheaper than every other source, so there is a huge market out there.

    And Europe has discovered the folly of depending upon nondispatchable energy sources.

    The folly is not investing in grid scale batteries when you start relaying on wind and solar for an appreciable part of your generation.
    This hit Europe HARD last winter:
    https://time.com/6124191/winter-europe-energy/
    Read what you post. It's dated 28th November, 2021 1:16 PM EST before winter had actually hit. It was simple alarmism.

    You might try READING the article as well as looking at the date. The lack of wind has already hit the UK, TWICE!
    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/09/29/sse-says-low-wind-dry-conditions-hit-renewable-energy-generation.html
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2018/aug/27/uk-summer-wind-drought-puts-green-revolution-into-reverse

    It happens, but not very often. It's not an an excuse to give up on renewable energy, which is remarkably cheap when the wind is blowing ant the sun is shining.

    CONGRATULATIONS! You finally ADMIT that energy crises ARE happening!!
    It wasn't any kind of "energy crisis". It was just a brief and predictable occasional local shortfall in supply. Europe has transnational high-voltage links to shoip power from areas that still have power to areas that have that kind short term problem.
    It takes an idiot like you to promote it in a "crisis".
    And they will happen more frequently as we continue to put loads onto the electrical grid at a faster rate than we are adding generation and transmission capacity.
    Happily, the people who plan the expansion of the grid pay attention to the way the market can be expected to expand. Clowns like you may apply for that kind of job, but they don't get hired to do it. The US grid supplied some 800 billion kilowatt
    hours in 950 and was supplying some 4,000 billion in 2000, when industry started getting more efficient, so the market stopped expanding - at least for a while. The switch from gasoline-power top electric cars will call for another 1200 billion kilowatt
    hours of capacity over the next decade or so, and there will be entrepreneurs out there investing in being able to supply it (probably from solar farms).

    Our government is ALREADY warning of wide-spread blackouts because of this issue, but dullards such as yourself are ignoring them - until YOU are impacted.


    And there will be clowns like you telling us that it couldn't possible happen, while your pension fund will be investing in making it happenm
    The Woke crowd simply can't listen to reason. Like Sloman they think that it will all just, somehow, work out.

    As if Flyguy could produce or comprehend a reasoned argument. He quotes an alarmist forecast from last November, and thinks that that reflects what actually happened.

    Well, Sloman, I am STILL waiting for you to make one.

    Which is to say you imagine that you could process it or even recognise it as reasonable if you ran into it.

    Lame excuse for not presenting one. The truth is that you DON'T have a plan.
    Of course I don't. I invest in companies that do - they do exist. Your pension fund will too, even if you haven't got a clue about it.
    You have exactly the same plan for expanding electric generation and transmission as Lyin' Biden does - NONE AT ALL!

    Since your capacity to understand any such plan is absolutely zero, it's no surprise that you can't recognise the plans that do exist.

    So WHY don't you present one? You can't is the answer.
    If I had billions to invest, I would. As it is, I invest in companies that do. You want to a prospectus? Search the web yourself.
    Nobody is saying that it isn't going to take work to move the generation system to the point where it can rely on mainly renewable sources, and they've got to be capable of supplying a a higher peak current, and storing a lot of it for a day or
    two, in a way the current system can't manage.

    As I pointed out, there is a huge shortfall in the investment required to make this happen. Plus, the Woke crowd is throwing all sorts of permitting roadblocks in the way.

    You didn't. You posted a link to a report from an industry group that makes money out of this kind of investment and would like to see even more of it.

    False equivalency. By this logic, ANY professional group's opinion will be rejected by you.
    They weren't actually talking a bout any "huge shortfall" - they'd just like to see more inverstment. As usual you were misrepresenting what they said to fit with you bizarre delusions.
    It helps that renewable electricity is quite a bit cheaper than power from any other sources - though Flyguy doesn't seem to have noticed this, even if the Australian generating industry won't invest in any other generating capacity because its
    too expensive - but it is going to take time.

    Flyguy can't learn anything new and doesn't think than anybody else can do any better. He's clearly not "woke" and doesn't seem to have been awake for years now.

    I can "learn" that there ARE NO plans in place to make this happen. If you know of any then CITE THEM.
    Of course you can "learn" this. You can't understand the plans that do exist, and it would be a complete waste of time to provide links to site that you couldn't comprehend, and would write off for some bogus reason or other.

    No, you don't provide them because you DON'T HAVE THEM!

    Why bother? You wouldn't be able to make sense of them if I did.

    There's no claim that it "will all just somehow work out". There is a claim that if we spend quite a lot of money on the right hardware, it will actually work out, but Flyguy is much too dim to have any clue about how much money or what kind of
    hardware.

    Sorry, Sloman, but I cited a reference above (unlike you) that makes this very clear.

    Gnatguy can always read any document as supporting his preferred point of view. He can't understand what they actually say, but he can always misunderstand them in a way that he finds comforting.

    More of Sloman's demented ramblings that make no sense whatsoever.

    None so blind as those that do not wish to see. Not that Gnatguy can comprehend much at the best of times.

    Yet more demented ramblings filled with invective and name calling by SNIPPERMAN. So sad...

    He also thinks that a transition to electric vehicles will overload the electricity generating system, even though he couldn't look up the predictions of how much it would load the generating system, nor notice that the extra load for the US
    would be about ten years worth of the annual growth from 1950 to 2000, while electric cars are gong to take more than ten years to entirely take over the car market.

    Hey Sloman, I already did that calculation (again, unlike you).

    So why were you asking us to do it for you?

    To get you to commit to an actual calculation, which you DID NOT DO! If you did do it, you would see the extent of the problem facing us. And you can't hardly deny your OWN NUMBERS, and you don't find ANY fault with mine!!
    Since the result of that calculation has been posted here years ago, and are widely available on the web, what you were actually doing was just reminding us that you are the same pig-ignorant idiot that you have always been.
    And our system is ALREADY overloaded without ANY new loads:
    "Ahead of summer 2022, federal officials have released several warnings about anticipated reliability risks and higher electricity prices compared to 2021."
    https://crsreports.congress.gov/product/pdf/IN/IN11943

    "Midcontinent ISO (MISO) faces a capacity shortfall in its North and Central areas, resulting
    in high risk of energy emergencies during peak summer conditions" "Extreme drought across much of Texas can produce weather conditions that are
    favorable to prolonged, wide-area heat events and extreme peak electricity
    demand." https://www.nerc.com/pa/RAPA/ra/Reliability%20Assessments%20DL/NERC_SRA_2022.pdf

    And nobody wants to spend extra money on installing a bit more generating capacity than they won't be able to keep on exploiting 100% of the time.

    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!
    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links to let you
    average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!


    Turning a less than perfectly reliable generation system into a reliable grid supply is something that we have been doing for more than a century now. It takes more engineering to cope day-to-night fluctuations than it did to cope with coal-fired
    generators that broke down, but it's just engineering, not miracle working.
    And the USA and Europe aren't the only ones: https://www.reuters.com/markets/commodities/australians-urged-save-electricity-ease-power-crunch-2022-06-16/

    That was aging and unreliable coal-fired generating plants all being unreliable at once. Nothing to do with renewables - though if the previous Australian administration had subsdised renewable generation with the same enthusiasm as they'd insisted
    that the ageing coal-fired plants weren't retired there might have been enough extra generating capacity spread around the country to carry the load.

    Hey Sloman, it is ALL OF THE ABOVE! The Woke crowd wants to replace these aging plants with an even MORE unreliable source: renewables.

    They aren't unreliable in the same way, and they resume generating a lot more reliably and predictably than wonky old coal-fired plants
    And there IS NO PLAN to do even that.
    https://www.snowyhydro.com.au/snowy-20/about/

    Pumped storage has been around for decades, SNIPPERMAN, and is in use today in the US. But it is a very limited solution because of the huge landmass required to implement it. This project will work because it doesn't involve flooding any new land.


    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to understand it if
    I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has become more
    vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years, putting further
    pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-wide-
    blackout/):

    "On 8 January 2021, the European electricity grid only just missed a large-scale collapse. Around 13:04 p.m. there was a sharp drop in frequency that could have paralysed Europe.

    The cause was apparently a power failure in Romania. According to the Austrian blackout expert Herbert Saurugg, it was the second most serious major incident in the European network to date. According to the ENTSO-E classification, the third of four
    warning levels was achieved (Emergency – Deteriorated situation, including a network split at a large scale. Higher risk for neighboring systems. Security principles are not fulfilled. Global security is endangered)."

    Businesses and many homeowners are WELL AWARE of this situation and are pro-actively installing backup power generation at considerable expense (https://www.wsj.com/articles/amid-power-outages-americans-buying-generators-solar-plus-battery-microgrids-
    11645207261?mod=article_inline):

    "As the American electric grid becomes less dependable, a growing number of businesses and homeowners are buying their own power systems to protect themselves from being left in the dark.

    Twenty years ago, only 0.57% of U.S. homes worth $150,000 or more had installed backup generators, mainly along hurricane-prone coastlines, according to backup-power provider Generac Holdings Inc. GNRC -5.52%▼ Now the number is 5.75%, a 10-fold
    increase.

    Many entrepreneurs now consider secondary power systems to be a necessary cost of doing business. Steve Peterson, who owns Hungry Howie’s Pizza franchises in Michigan, learned their value in 2003, when a massive blackout knocked out power to much of
    the Midwest and Northeast. Mr. Peterson had invested in backup generation—and said he had lines of people who wanted a hot meal stretching 200 to 300 feet out the door."

    This, however, is an option only for the wealthiest. Generac has opened sales offices in California, a state where they had no operation before because of how power reliability there has deteriorated (https://www.ocregister.com/2019/11/26/rich-
    californians-shelling-out-30000-to-ease-blackout-pain/):

    "The trend isn’t unique to California. With climate change colliding with an aging grid, residents of areas from snowy New England to the hurricane-threatened South face more disruptions to power. But with costs for whole-house generators or solar and
    battery packages running tens of thousands of dollars, the demand for backup systems underscores a stark reality: Wealthy people will be able to endure outages while the poor are left in the dark."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Aug 3 18:54:09 2022
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links to let
    you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to understand it
    if I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has become more
    vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years, putting further
    pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-
    wide-blackout/):

    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or the money to
    keep it maintained when it isn't generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's going on.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Thu Aug 4 16:36:54 2022
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links to let
    you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!
    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>
    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to understand it
    if I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has become
    more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years, putting
    further pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-
    wide-blackout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or the money
    to keep it maintained when it isn't generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's going on.

    I will give SNIPPERMAN one last chance to put up or shut about Lyin' Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't produced it because it DOESN'T
    EXIST!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Thu Aug 4 21:00:12 2022
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links to
    let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to understand
    it if I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has become
    more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years, putting
    further pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-
    wide-blackout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or the
    money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?

    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!

    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems perfectly sensible - more high-voltage transmission lines between place where power is easy to generate (like Death Valley) and places where people like to live and use electricity makes every kind of sense. There doesn't seem to be any mention of
    creating any more power generation capacity - presumably the idea is that if you provide a means to ship the power from where it is easy to generate to where it is easy to sell, private enterprise can be relied on to exploit the opportunity to make money
    out of it. Of course you have to be able to do joined up logic to see that, and Gnatguy isn't up to that.

    --
    Bill Slom,an, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Fri Aug 5 15:59:59 2022
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links to
    let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to
    understand it if I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has become
    more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years, putting
    further pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-
    europe-wide-blackout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or the
    money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?

    HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.

    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!
    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation business, Dick Tracy. WHY? Because they have NO AUTHORITY in this area, which MUST be granted by Congress. The U.S. Federal Energy Regulatory Commission (FERC) is powerless in mandating any
    changes to the electrical grid. Electrical power generation responsibility is a mish-mash of local, state, and seven regional operators. Unfortunately, these operators are under-estimating the likelihood of extreme weather events, which guides their
    investments in new generation capacity and transmission lines.


    seems perfectly sensible - more high-voltage transmission lines between place where power is easy to generate (like Death Valley) and places where people like to live and use electricity makes every kind of sense. There doesn't seem to be any mention
    of creating any more power generation capacity - presumably the idea is that if you provide a means to ship the power from where it is easy to generate to where it is easy to sell, private enterprise can be relied on to exploit the opportunity to make
    money out of it. Of course you have to be able to do joined up logic to see that, and Gnatguy isn't up to that.

    More transmission lines require a major INVESTMENT, SNIPPERMAN, and this IS NOT happening. Furthermore, it requires regulatory approval and permitting, and will no doubt face major court challenges by the Greenies, which will, at the very minimum, delay
    such large projects, if not stop them altogether. You somehow think that this will just happen w/o spending

    All of this is well explained here: https://www.reuters.com/investigates/special-report/usa-renewables-electric-grid/
    which does say that "the administration said in an April news release that it plans to offer $2.5 billion in grants for grid-modernization projects as part of Biden’s $1 trillion infrastructure package." This amount, however, is FAR BELOW what is
    necessary to accomplish this task, perhaps as much as a THOUSAND TIMES. These costs are further detailed here:
    https://www.americanactionforum.org/research/the-cost-of-upgrading-electricity-transmission/
    Here is a quote from that report:
    "The construction of new transmission facilities would cost an estimated $314 to $504 billion in capital costs on top of the estimated $1.8 to $2.1 trillion in new generation costs necessary to attain the 2035 goal, leading to higher bills for consumers."
    Simple arithmetic sets the total cost at $2.1 to $2.6 TRILLION!

    The bottom line is that the electrical grid is completely unprepared for current requirements, let alone the future electrification of America promised by Lyin' Biden. And YOU are as unprepared as Lyin' Biden, if not more so.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Fri Aug 5 18:38:49 2022
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links
    to let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to
    understand it if I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has
    become more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years,
    putting further pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-
    europe-wide-blackout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or the
    money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?
    HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.
    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!
    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize
    The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation business, Dick Tracy.

    Tennesse Valley Authority

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

    Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant he is.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sat Aug 6 20:10:15 2022
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links
    to let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to
    understand it if I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has
    become more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years,
    putting further pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-
    europe-wide-blackout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or
    the money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?
    HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.
    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!
    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize
    The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation business, Dick Tracy.
    Tennesse Valley Authority

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

    Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant he is.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    From your reference:

    "TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a private for-profit company."

    So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation "business."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Aug 6 20:32:26 2022
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 1:10:19 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance
    links to let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to
    understand it if I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has
    become more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years,
    putting further pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-
    entire-europe-wide-blackout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or
    the money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?

    HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.

    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!

    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation business, Dick Tracy.

    Tennesse Valley Authority

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

    Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant he is.

    From your reference:

    "TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a private for-profit company."

    It doesn't now. "Never" is a claim that it never did.

    So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation "business."

    It isn't now. My claim was "The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly."

    The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn't work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It was a
    mistake, but Gnatguy won't be able to work out why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Aug 6 22:11:55 2022
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:59:49 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 8:32:30 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:

    ... My claim was "The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly."

    The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn't work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It was
    a mistake, but Gnatguy won't be able to work out why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney
    Hey SNIPPERMAN, none of this matters because the US government has NO AUTHORITY in the area of electricity generation or transmission...

    False, of course; interstate commerce is completely in US authority, as is some large amount
    of land use in the various national lands (not just parks, lots of land is under federal jurisdiction).
    Federal government operates a number of energy facilities.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sat Aug 6 21:59:45 2022
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 8:32:30 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 1:10:19 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance
    links to let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to
    understand it if I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid
    has become more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years,
    putting further pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-
    entire-europe-wide-blackout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity,
    or the money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?

    HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.

    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!

    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation business, Dick Tracy.

    Tennesse Valley Authority

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

    Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant he is.

    From your reference:

    "TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a private for-profit company."
    It doesn't now. "Never" is a claim that it never did.
    So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation "business."
    It isn't now. My claim was "The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly."

    The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn't work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It was a
    mistake, but Gnatguy won't be able to work out why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey SNIPPERMAN, none of this matters because the US government has NO AUTHORITY in the area of electricity generation or transmission, and Lyin' Biden's token scraps thrown at the industry will have NO IMPACT on the system availability or reliability.
    Yet he proposes throwing whole new classes of loads onto an already OVERLOADED system.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to All on Sat Aug 6 22:16:41 2022
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 10:11:59 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:59:49 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 8:32:30 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    ... My claim was "The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly."

    The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn't work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It
    was a mistake, but Gnatguy won't be able to work out why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney
    Hey SNIPPERMAN, none of this matters because the US government has NO AUTHORITY in the area of electricity generation or transmission...

    False, of course; interstate commerce is completely in US authority, as is some large amount
    of land use in the various national lands (not just parks, lots of land is under federal jurisdiction).
    Federal government operates a number of energy facilities.

    No, you're false. Show me statutes which grant the Feds authority in electricity generation and production. They have no more authority in this area than they do to produce cars and trucks. They can REGULATE it, but can't PARTICIPATE in it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Aug 6 23:58:47 2022
    On 08/06/2022 09:10 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote: >>>> On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote: >>>>>>>> On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote: >>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote: >>>>>> <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance links to
    let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there. >>>>>>>
    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to understand
    it if I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid has become
    more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years, putting
    further pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-
    europe-wide-blackout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity, or the
    money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?
    HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.
    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!
    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize
    The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation business, Dick Tracy.
    Tennesse Valley Authority

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

    Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant he is.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    From your reference:

    "TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a private for-profit company."

    So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation "business."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Power_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalles_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNary_Dam

    There are 8 other dams on the Snake operated by either the Corp of
    Engineers or the Bureau of Reclamation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Aug 6 22:23:57 2022
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 10:16:45 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 10:11:59 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:59:49 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 8:32:30 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    ... My claim was "The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly."

    The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn't work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It
    was a mistake, but Gnatguy won't be able to work out why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney
    Hey SNIPPERMAN, none of this matters because the US government has NO AUTHORITY in the area of electricity generation or transmission...

    False, of course; interstate commerce is completely in US authority, as is some large amount
    of land use in the various national lands (not just parks, lots of land is under federal jurisdiction).
    Federal government operates a number of energy facilities.
    No, you're false. Show me statutes which grant the Feds authority in electricity generation and production. They have no more authority in this area than they do to produce cars and trucks. They can REGULATE it, but can't PARTICIPATE in it.

    Don't be silly; anyone with a generator flashlight has the authority to generate electricity;
    federal branches like bureau of mines do so (I've worked at facilities that got power from
    those sources, as part of a federal grant...). What they don't participate in, is power
    MARKETING, as a competitor to profit-making businesses.

    Rights-of-way for interstate power lines often involve federal, not just state or local, legal protection.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Aug 6 23:03:56 2022
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 2:59:49 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 8:32:30 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 1:10:19 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and long distance
    links to let you average out from day to night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be able to
    understand it if I could find a link to one of them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with greater frequency over the past two decades, in part because the grid
    has become more vulnerable to failure with age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by climate change. A push to electrify home heating and cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may increase power demand in coming years,
    putting further pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic blackout on Jan 8, 2021 (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-chaotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-
    entire-europe-wide-blackout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity,
    or the money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?

    HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.

    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!

    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation business, Dick Tracy.

    Tennesse Valley Authority

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

    Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant he is.

    From your reference:

    "TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a private for-profit company."
    It doesn't now. "Never" is a claim that it never did.
    So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation "business."
    It isn't now. My claim was "The US government got out of electricity generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural monopoly."

    The UK started off with privately owned power generation, found - back in Victorian times - that it didn't work, and moved to municipal utilities before eventually moving on to a National Grid. Thatcher got around to privatising that in 1990. It was
    a mistake, but Gnatguy won't be able to work out why.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Grid_(Great_Britain)

    Hey Sloman, none of this matters because the US government has NO AUTHORITY in the area of electricity generation or transmission, and Joe Biden's token scraps thrown at the industry will have NO IMPACT on the system availability or reliability. Yet he
    proposes throwing whole new classes of loads onto an already OVERLOADED system.

    Make up your mind. Either Biden's proposals will have an impact, or they won't. You can't have it both ways

    Either way, you don't seem to have any idea what he might be proposing, or what effect it might have. And the US government can enact legislation which can give all the authority it needs. The damage Trump has done to the Supreme Court may mean that the
    right-wing lunatics currently infesting the institution might beg to differ, but it may be difficult to interpret a constitution written before electricity was used in industry to justify that kind of delusion.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Aug 7 06:06:28 2022
    rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote in
    news:jl92kqFh481U1@mid.individual.net:

    On 08/06/2022 09:10 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org
    wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
    wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
    wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy
    wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10,
    Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their
    unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable
    power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power
    generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly
    reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you
    do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and
    long distance links to let you average out from day to
    night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies
    are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar
    farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but
    it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be
    able to understand it if I could find a link to one of
    them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem
    (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings-
    grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints
    comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of
    the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with
    greater frequency over the past two decades, in part
    because the grid has become more vulnerable to failure with
    age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by
    climate change. A push to electrify home heating and
    cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may
    increase power demand in coming years, putting further
    pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the
    outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic
    blackout on Jan 8, 2021
    (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-c
    haotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-wide-blac
    kout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to
    put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in
    excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power
    don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity,
    or the money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating
    power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is
    great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which
    is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it
    seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's
    going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about
    Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and
    create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?
    HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.
    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't
    produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!
    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity
    generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural
    monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't
    a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-
    president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize
    The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation
    business, Dick Tracy.
    Tennesse Valley Authority

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

    Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant
    he is.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    From your reference:

    "TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a
    private for-profit company."

    So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation
    "business."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Power_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalles_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNary_Dam

    There are 8 other dams on the Snake operated by either the Corp of
    Engineers or the Bureau of Reclamation.



    Yes. And the BPA also operates the biggest HV DC interlink in the
    US. 4MV. 3100 MegaWatts. 846 miles.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to DecadentLinux...@decadence.org on Sun Aug 7 14:25:39 2022
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 11:06:39 PM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote in
    news:jl92kq...@mid.individual.net:
    On 08/06/2022 09:10 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org
    wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
    wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
    wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their >>>>>>>>>> unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable
    power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power
    generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly
    reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you >>>>>>>>> do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and
    long distance links to let you average out from day to
    night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies
    are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar
    farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but >>>>>>>>> it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be >>>>>>>>> able to understand it if I could find a link to one of
    them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem
    (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings- >>>>>>>> grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints
    comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of
    the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with
    greater frequency over the past two decades, in part
    because the grid has become more vulnerable to failure with >>>>>>>> age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by
    climate change. A push to electrify home heating and
    cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may
    increase power demand in coming years, putting further
    pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the
    outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic
    blackout on Jan 8, 2021
    (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-c >>>>>>>> haotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-wide-blac >>>>>>>> kout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to
    put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in
    excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power
    don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity,
    or the money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating
    power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is
    great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which
    is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it
    seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's
    going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about
    Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and
    create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?
    HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.
    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't
    produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!
    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity
    generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural
    monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't
    a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-
    president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize
    The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation
    business, Dick Tracy.
    Tennesse Valley Authority

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

    Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant
    he is.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    From your reference:

    "TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a
    private for-profit company."

    So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation
    "business."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Power_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalles_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNary_Dam

    There are 8 other dams on the Snake operated by either the Corp of Engineers or the Bureau of Reclamation.


    Yes. And the BPA also operates the biggest HV DC interlink in the
    US. 4MV. 3100 MegaWatts. 846 miles.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie>

    ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration,
    including Lyin' Biden's, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
    "The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest."
    The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Aug 7 16:14:24 2022
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration,
    including Lyin' Biden's, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
    "The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest."
    The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.

    Nice save from 'So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity
    generation "business."'

    The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from
    the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the
    REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it's
    all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

    It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power
    immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and
    reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go
    bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out
    several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the
    co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.



    BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress
    directly authorizes the contracts.

    https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

    The current contracts are extended to 2067. It's a good thing the
    distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with
    new wide head turbines but I don't know if they have any more rabbits in
    the hat as Mead dries up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Aug 7 18:03:41 2022
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration,
    including Lyin' Biden's, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
    "The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest."
    The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
    Nice save from 'So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation "business."'

    The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from
    the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the
    REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it's
    all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

    It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power
    immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out
    several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the
    co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.



    BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress directly authorizes the contracts.

    https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

    The current contracts are extended to 2067. It's a good thing the distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with
    new wide head turbines but I don't know if they have any more rabbits in
    the hat as Mead dries up.

    BPA, TVA and the like are federal AGENCIES. They are entities that are authorized to operate by the US government to perform specific functions, but ARE NOT the government. Their charter is limited by law. For example, BPA can (and does) sell power to CA,
    but they can't issue bonds and build a new power plant in CA.

    The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Lyin' Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will replace
    them. If they did have the authority you can bet that they would have exercised it. This is putting people's lives and livelihoods in danger, but the libtards DON'T CARE!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Aug 7 18:52:18 2022
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration,
    including Joe Biden's, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
    "The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest."
    The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
    Nice save from 'So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation "business."'

    The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from
    the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the
    REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it's
    all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

    It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out
    several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.

    BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress directly authorizes the contracts.

    https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

    The current contracts are extended to 2067. It's a good thing the distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with
    new wide head turbines but I don't know if they have any more rabbits in the hat as Mead dries up.

    BPA, TVA and the like are federal AGENCIES. They are entities that are authorized to operate by the US government to perform specific functions, but ARE NOT the government. Their charter is limited by law. For example, BPA can (and does) sell power to
    CA, but they can't issue bonds and build a new power plant in CA.

    The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will replace
    them.

    No plan that Gnatguy can understand. He certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask cogress to pass the appropriate legislation.

    If they did have the authority you can bet that they would have exercised it.

    Why? It's a capital-intensive exercise, and they don't happen overnight.

    This is putting people's lives and livelihoods in danger, but the libtards DON'T CARE!

    How is proposing to beef up the distribution grid putting people's lives in danger? Gnatguy doesn't understand what's gong on, and - as he always does - he's decided that what's he imagines is actually going on is something he can get hysterical about.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Aug 7 18:43:28 2022
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 7:25:43 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 11:06:39 PM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote in
    news:jl92kq...@mid.individual.net:
    On 08/06/2022 09:10 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 6:38:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org
    wrote:
    On Saturday, August 6, 2022 at 9:00:06 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 9:00:17 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 5, 2022 at 9:36:57 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 3, 2022 at 6:54:12 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 4, 2022 at 3:55:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy
    wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 7:23:17 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 2, 2022 at 4:28:48 AM UTC+10, Flyguy >>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 10:02:02 PM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 1, 2022 at 12:41:11 PM UTC+10, Flyguy >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 1:12:38 AM UTC-7,
    bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:00:31 PM UTC+10, Flyguy >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 7:14:47 PM UTC-7, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 11:02:16 AM UTC+10, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 12:51:23 AM UTC-7, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 3:38:16 PM UTC+10, >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Which is what you HAVE to do with renewables due to their >>>>>>>>>> unreliability. People WILL NOT tolerate an unreliable >>>>>>>>>> power supply, even YOU!

    Solar power is quite a lot cheaper than the power
    generation schemes that you are used to. It's perfectly >>>>>>>>> reliable - the sun keeps on coming up every day - but you >>>>>>>>> do have to have grid scale batteries, pumped storage and >>>>>>>>> long distance links to let you average out from day to
    night and between cloudy days here and there.

    LOL! So do the CLOUDS!!

    I wonder what Gnatguy thought that he meant by that.

    <snip>

    The various Australian electricity generating companies >>>>>>>>> are all investing in more wind turbine farms and solar
    farms. Presumably there's some kind of plan involved, but >>>>>>>>> it would be commercial in confidence, and you wouldn't be >>>>>>>>> able to understand it if I could find a link to one of
    them.

    As they are here, but there is a big problem
    (https://www.wsj.com/articles/electricity-shortage-warnings- >>>>>>>> grow-across-u-s-11652002380):

    "The risk of outages resulting from supply constraints
    comes amid other challenges straining the reliability of
    the grid. Large, sustained outages have occurred with
    greater frequency over the past two decades, in part
    because the grid has become more vulnerable to failure with >>>>>>>> age and an uptick in severe weather events exacerbated by >>>>>>>> climate change. A push to electrify home heating and
    cooking, and the expected growth of electric vehicles, may >>>>>>>> increase power demand in coming years, putting further
    pressure on the system."

    This is the crux of the problem I was referring to at the >>>>>>>> outset of this thread. Europe almost had a catastrophic
    blackout on Jan 8, 2021
    (https://stopthesethings.com/2021/02/02/european-emergency-c >>>>>>>> haotic-wind-solar-collapses-threaten-entire-europe-wide-blac >>>>>>>> kout/):
    But didn't.

    The people who sell the power into the retail market want to >>>>>>> put pressure on the people who supply the power to invest in >>>>>>> excess generating capacity. The people who sell the power
    don't have to find the capital to pay the excess capacity,
    or the money to keep it maintained when it isn't generating >>>>>>> power that anybody can sell. Spare generating capacity is
    great when you need it, and expensive when you don't, which >>>>>>> is most of the time.

    You see a particular sort of propaganda and take it
    seriously, because you are too dim to understand what's
    going on.

    I will give Sloman one last chance to put up or shut about
    Joe Biden's federal plan to modernize the electrical grid and >>>>>> create more generation capacity

    Were we talking about that?
    HELLO! That is EXACTLY what we ARE talking about, Dick Tracy.
    before I explain the simple reason he can't. Hint: he hasn't
    produced it because it DOESN'T EXIST!
    Why should it? The US government got out of electricity
    generation a long time ago, and tried to privatise a natural
    monopoly. The ENRON scandal should remind people that it isn't
    a great idea, but Gnatguy doesn't know enough to have noticed.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative- >>>>> president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize
    The US government was NEVER in the electricity generation
    business, Dick Tracy.
    Tennesse Valley Authority

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tennessee_Valley_Authority

    Gnatguy really is ignorant, and too dumb to realise how ignorant
    he is.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    From your reference:

    "TVA receives no taxpayer funding and operates similarly to a
    private for-profit company."

    So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation
    "business."


    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Power_Administration https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bonneville_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grand_Coulee_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dalles_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Day_Dam https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McNary_Dam

    There are 8 other dams on the Snake operated by either the Corp of Engineers or the Bureau of Reclamation.


    Yes. And the BPA also operates the biggest HV DC interlink in the
    US. 4MV. 3100 MegaWatts. 846 miles.

    <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pacific_DC_Intertie>

    ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration,
    including Joe Biden's, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
    "The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest."
    The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO.

    Gnatguy's appreciation of practical reality is zero. People have been looking for potential hydroelectric projects for at least a century now, and all the low hanging fruit has been plucked. There are other ways of generating power that are renewable -
    solar power is going to keep on working for the next billions years or so - but Gnatguy doesn't appreciate this.

    AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.

    https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/09/wpps-municipal-bond-default-whoops.asp

    American firms don't have to be incompetent. Gnatguy isn't representative.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sun Aug 7 22:18:31 2022
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no Administration,
    including Joe Biden's, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
    "The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest."
    The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
    Nice save from 'So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation "business."'

    The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it's all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

    It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.

    BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress directly authorizes the contracts.

    https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

    The current contracts are extended to 2067. It's a good thing the distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with new wide head turbines but I don't know if they have any more rabbits in the hat as Mead dries up.

    BPA, TVA and the like are federal AGENCIES. They are entities that are authorized to operate by the US government to perform specific functions, but ARE NOT the government. Their charter is limited by law. For example, BPA can (and does) sell power
    to CA, but they can't issue bonds and build a new power plant in CA.

    The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will replace
    them.

    No plan that Gnatguy can understand. He certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask cogress to pass the appropriate legislation.

    Hey SNIPPERMAN, we all know that there is NO PLAN, including your addled brain. If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Aug 7 23:37:09 2022
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no
    Administration, including Joe Biden's, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
    "The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest."
    The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
    Nice save from 'So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation "business."'

    The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it's all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

    It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.

    BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress directly authorizes the contracts.

    https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

    The current contracts are extended to 2067. It's a good thing the distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with new wide head turbines but I don't know if they have any more rabbits in
    the hat as Mead dries up.

    BPA, TVA and the like are federal AGENCIES. They are entities that are authorized to operate by the US government to perform specific functions, but ARE NOT the government. Their charter is limited by law. For example, BPA can (and does) sell power
    to CA, but they can't issue bonds and build a new power plant in CA.

    The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will
    replace them.

    No plan that Gnatguy can understand. He certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask congress to pass the appropriate legislation.

    Hey Sloman, we all know that there is NO PLAN, including your addled brain.

    Gnatguy generalises his own confusion to everybody else. If there's nothing there that he can understand, he's fatuously confident that there's nothing there than anybody could understand.

    If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

    Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn't talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you'd go through when putting one together

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    Biden is being sensible about this, but he's not being sensible in a way that you can understand - you can't understand much as the best of times, and you aren't going to exert your remarkably feeble intellect to try to understand anything that the
    Democrats might put forward , even if there was remote chance you could.

    You actually headed this thread with a reference to Biden and electrification, but what you asked for was an estimate of the extra generating capacity required to support electric cars when they replace gasoline-powered cars, which I already knew, and
    could dig a supporting link out of google in thirty seconds.

    Going around bleating that other people don't know what they are talking about after that pathetic pratfall would be chutzpa, if you were bright enough to understand how stupid you had been. As it is it's just Gnatguy reminding us - again - that he's a
    total moron.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to GnatTurd on Mon Aug 8 15:32:39 2022
    GnatTurd <maggotlifelong@yahoo.com> wrote in news:c9fbd165-ffcb-4657-a2e0-20b1e085d358n@googlegroups.com:

    ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago,
    mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities.

    You are a goddamned idiot. The DC intertie was NOT a "Depression-
    era" project. You are only off by three decades minimum. It was
    "authorized" by the congress in place during the Kennedy
    administration. Damn you are stupid, boy.

    You are even more stupid than 'John Doe' aka 'Jack Webb' aka Jake
    Isks.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to GnatTurd on Mon Aug 8 15:39:26 2022
    GnatTurd <maggot4life@yahoo.com> wrote in news:712b9bfd-8fab-4f14-b74e-30523b82fc99n@googlegroups.com:

    No, you're false. Show me statutes which grant the Feds authority
    in electricity generation and production. They have no more
    authority in this area than they do to produce cars and trucks.
    They can REGULATE it, but can't PARTICIPATE in it.


    They operate nuclear power facilities. They do not own them. They
    GOVERN ALL ASPECTS of their operation, however.

    GnatTurd is an abject idiot. But we all already knew that from all
    the TrumpShitSmear stench in the air from you having your head a mile
    up his fat skanky ass for over 7 years. You stink, boy.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Mon Aug 8 19:36:47 2022
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago, mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities. Any future projects would also have to be specifically AUTHORIZED by Congress; absent this authorization (law) no
    Administration, including Joe Biden's, can fund such activities. And, YES, the Feds are PROMOTING and MARKETING existing hydro generation:
    "The Bonneville Power Administration is a nonprofit federal power MARKETING administration based in the Pacific Northwest."
    The odds of getting a new hydro project authorized these days is, for all practical purposes, ZERO. AFAIK, current power generation projects are privately financed after BPA got its headed handed to it for financing WPPSS.
    Nice save from 'So, NO, the US government ISN'T in the electricity generation "business."'

    The electricity powering this computer is contracted from the BPA from
    the electric co-op of which I am a member. The co-op goes back to the
    REA (Rural Electrification Administration) formed in 1935. Yeah, it's
    all legacy but it lives on. fwiw the REA was created by an EO of Roosevelt.

    It worked well when deregulation was all the rage. Montana Power immediately sold its generation capacity to out of state firms and reinvented itself as a telecommunications company just in time to go bankrupt in the dotcom bust. Rates went up drastically driving out several energy intensive businesses like aluminum smelters. Since the
    co-op is linked to the BPA my rates stayed stable.

    BTW, Hoover Dam is also run by the Bureau of Reclamation and Congress
    directly authorizes the contracts.

    https://uscode.house.gov/view.xhtml?req=granuleid%3AUSC-1999-title43-chapter12A-subchapter3&edition=1999

    The current contracts are extended to 2067. It's a good thing the distribution is in percents. Reclamation saved the bacon in 2017 with
    new wide head turbines but I don't know if they have any more rabbits in
    the hat as Mead dries up.

    BPA, TVA and the like are federal AGENCIES. They are entities that are authorized to operate by the US government to perform specific functions, but ARE NOT the government. Their charter is limited by law. For example, BPA can (and does) sell
    power to CA, but they can't issue bonds and build a new power plant in CA.

    The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will
    replace them.

    No plan that Gnatguy can understand. He certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask congress to pass the appropriate legislation.

    Hey Sloman, we all know that there is NO PLAN, including your addled brain.

    Gnatguy generalises his own confusion to everybody else. If there's nothing there that he can understand, he's fatuously confident that there's nothing there than anybody could understand.
    If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.
    Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn't talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you'd go through when putting one together

    Again, SNIPPERMAN, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can't find any such plan. If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to DecadentLinux...@decadence.org on Mon Aug 8 19:25:50 2022
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:39:33 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    GnatTurd <maggo...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:712b9bfd-8fab-4f14...@googlegroups.com:
    No, you're false. Show me statutes which grant the Feds authority
    in electricity generation and production. They have no more
    authority in this area than they do to produce cars and trucks.
    They can REGULATE it, but can't PARTICIPATE in it.

    They operate nuclear power facilities. They do not own them. They
    GOVERN ALL ASPECTS of their operation, however.

    GnatTurd is an abject idiot. But we all already knew that from all
    the TrumpShitSmear stench in the air from you having your head a mile
    up his fat skanky ass for over 7 years. You stink, boy.

    You, sir, are the "abject idiot" - they DO NOT "GOVERN ALL ASPECTS," they REGULATE the operation of the facilities. The first implies direct control of the operation. This IS NOT the case - they review the operation for compliance with regulations. And
    they, sure as HELL, DON'T OPERATE THEM, fool.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Mon Aug 8 20:28:14 2022
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will
    replace them.

    It wasn't the point when Gnatguy started it - he was fussed about the extra load on the grid when electric cars took over from gasoline-powered cars, and was much too dumb to know that people have been working that out - and publishing their conclusions -
    for ages.

    I suspect that "Hot, Flat and Crowded"

    https://www.thomaslfriedman.com/hot-flat-and-crowded-2-0/

    originally published in 2008, went into that. I can't check my copy - it's still in the Netherlands.

    No plan that Gnatguy can understand. Biden certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask congress to pass the appropriate legislation.

    Hey Sloman, we all know that there is NO PLAN, including your addled brain.

    Gnatguy generalises his own confusion to everybody else. If there's nothing there that he can understand, he's fatuously confident that there's nothing there than anybody could understand.
    If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

    Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn't talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you'd go through when putting one together.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    Again, Sloman, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can't find any such plan.

    Gnatguy is confident that he knows what other people are doing. In practice he does seem to assume that they are as stupid as he is, which is very rarely true.

    If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!

    So pathetic and lame that you snipped the rest of what I posted, rather than subjecting it to your laser-like analytical scrutiny.

    In this particular case Gnatguy is complaining about Biden not having a plan, when Biden has enough sense to be working on setting up the consultations which would assemble the kind of expert opinions you'd need to allow you to set up a sensible plan.
    Gnatguy doesn't see the necessity for that because he doesn't actually understand that the task is tolerably complicated - how could he?

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Tue Aug 9 11:42:30 2022
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    The ENTIRE POINT of this thread is that Joe Biden is using all means possible to outlaw carbon-fueled vehicles, but has NO PLAN (and certainly NO AUTHORITY) to expand and modernize the electrical grid to accommodate the EV vehicles that will
    replace them.
    It wasn't the point when Gnatguy started it - he was fussed about the extra load on the grid when electric cars took over from gasoline-powered cars, and was much too dumb to know that people have been working that out - and publishing their
    conclusions - for ages.

    I suspect that "Hot, Flat and Crowded"

    https://www.thomaslfriedman.com/hot-flat-and-crowded-2-0/

    originally published in 2008, went into that. I can't check my copy - it's still in the Netherlands.

    No plan that Gnatguy can understand. Biden certainly seems to have a plan to boost the distribution grid.If he needs the authority he can ask congress to pass the appropriate legislation.

    Hey Sloman, we all know that there is NO PLAN, including your addled brain.

    Gnatguy generalises his own confusion to everybody else. If there's nothing there that he can understand, he's fatuously confident that there's nothing there than anybody could understand.
    If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

    Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn't talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you'd go through when putting one together.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    Again, Sloman, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can't find any such plan.

    Gnatguy is confident that he knows what other people are doing. In practice he does seem to assume that they are as stupid as he is, which is very rarely true.

    Hey SNIPPERMAN, until you produce the goods we all know you are just BLOVIATING!

    If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!
    So pathetic and lame that you snipped the rest of what I posted, rather than subjecting it to your laser-like analytical scrutiny.

    In this particular case Gnatguy is complaining about Biden not having a plan, when Biden has enough sense to be working on setting up the consultations which would assemble the kind of expert opinions you'd need to allow you to set up a sensible plan.
    Gnatguy doesn't see the necessity for that because he doesn't actually understand that the task is tolerably complicated - how could he?

    LOL! So, SNIPPERMAN, so your phony story now is that Lyin' Biden is WORKING on putting together a team that will work on putting a plan together!! That's RICH!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to DecadentLinux...@decadence.org on Tue Aug 9 11:37:56 2022
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:32:53 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    GnatTurd <maggotl...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:c9fbd165-ffcb-4657...@googlegroups.com:
    ALL of these projects were authorized by Congress decades ago,
    mostly as Depression-era economic stimulus activities.
    You are a goddamned idiot. The DC intertie was NOT a "Depression-
    era" project. You are only off by three decades minimum. It was
    "authorized" by the congress in place during the Kennedy
    administration. Damn you are stupid, boy.

    You are even more stupid than 'John Doe' aka 'Jack Webb' aka Jake
    Isks.

    Hey, Idiot, I said "MOST" you FOOL!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Tue Aug 9 17:53:47 2022
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

    Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn't talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you'd go through when putting one together.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    Again, Sloman, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can't find any such plan.

    Gnatguy is confident that he knows what other people are doing. In practice he does seem to assume that they are as stupid as he is, which is very rarely true.

    Hey Slomnan, until you produce the goods we all know you are just BLOVIATING!

    Gnatguy bloviating again.

    If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!

    So pathetic and lame that you snipped the rest of what I posted, rather than subjecting it to your laser-like analytical scrutiny.

    In this particular case Gnatguy is complaining about Biden not having a plan, when Biden has enough sense to be working on setting up the consultations which would assemble the kind of expert opinions you'd need to allow you to set up a sensible plan.
    Gnatguy doesn't see the necessity for that because he doesn't actually understand that the task is tolerably complicated - how could he?

    LOL! So, Sloman, so your phony story now is that Joe Biden is WORKING on putting together a team that will work on putting a plan together!!

    That's what the link to the US Department of Energy web site says that they are doing. If you think that that website is phony, do tell us why.

    That's RICH!!!

    Gnatguy can't see the point, and thinks that everybody else is equally brain-dead.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Wed Aug 10 19:49:22 2022
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

    Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn't talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you'd go through when putting one together.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    Again, Sloman, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can't find any such plan.

    Gnatguy is confident that he knows what other people are doing. In practice he does seem to assume that they are as stupid as he is, which is very rarely true.

    Hey Slomnan, until you produce the goods we all know you are just BLOVIATING!

    Gnatguy bloviating again.

    SNIPPERMAN is at such a loss of words that he MUST USE MINE!!!!

    If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!

    So pathetic and lame that you snipped the rest of what I posted, rather than subjecting it to your laser-like analytical scrutiny.

    In this particular case Gnatguy is complaining about Biden not having a plan, when Biden has enough sense to be working on setting up the consultations which would assemble the kind of expert opinions you'd need to allow you to set up a sensible
    plan. Gnatguy doesn't see the necessity for that because he doesn't actually understand that the task is tolerably complicated - how could he?

    LOL! So, Sloman, so your phony story now is that Joe Biden is WORKING on putting together a team that will work on putting a plan together!!

    That's what the link to the US Department of Energy web site says that they are doing. If you think that that website is phony, do tell us why.

    Hey SNIPPERMAN, this IS NOT a "plan" - it is just a wish list. So, YES, as a PLAN it is PHONY!

    That's RICH!!!

    Gnatguy can't see the point, and thinks that everybody else is equally brain-dead.

    No, just YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Thu Aug 11 00:30:51 2022
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

    Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn't talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you'd go through when putting one together.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    Again, Sloman, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can't find any such plan.

    Gnatguy is confident that he knows what other people are doing. In practice he does seem to assume that they are as stupid as he is, which is very rarely true.

    Hey Sloman, until you produce the goods we all know you are just BLOVIATING!

    Gnatguy bloviating again.

    Sloman is at such a loss of words that he MUST USE MINE!!!!

    Gnatguy doesn't own the word "bloviating". He may have squatters rights.

    If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!

    So pathetic and lame that you snipped the rest of what I posted, rather than subjecting it to your laser-like analytical scrutiny.

    In this particular case Gnatguy is complaining about Biden not having a plan, when Biden has enough sense to be working on setting up the consultations which would assemble the kind of expert opinions you'd need to allow you to set up a sensible
    plan. Gnatguy doesn't see the necessity for that because he doesn't actually understand that the task is tolerably complicated - how could he?

    LOL! So, Sloman, so your phony story now is that Joe Biden is WORKING on putting together a team that will work on putting a plan together!!

    That's what the link to the US Department of Energy web site says that they are doing. If you think that that website is phony, do tell us why.

    Hey Sloman, this IS NOT a "plan" - it is just a wish list. So, YES, as a PLAN it is PHONY!

    Gnatguy wants there to be a plan, and hasn't noticed that you need to have a well-defined problem before you can set up a plan to solve it.

    First you work out exactly what you need to achieve, and then you can plan how you can do that. Gnatguy wants to skip the stages that he can't understand and get straight to the stage that he can understand - buying transformers and stringing up wires.
    Working out where you would need to put them is beyond him.

    That's RICH!!!

    Gnatguy can't see the point, and thinks that everybody else is equally brain-dead.

    No, just YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and enteratain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Thu Aug 11 20:17:33 2022
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

    Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn't talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you'd go through when putting one together.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    Again, Sloman, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can't find any such plan.

    Gnatguy is confident that he knows what other people are doing. In practice he does seem to assume that they are as stupid as he is, which is very rarely true.

    Hey Sloman, until you produce the goods we all know you are just BLOVIATING!

    Gnatguy bloviating again.

    Sloman is at such a loss of words that he MUST USE MINE!!!!

    Gnatguy doesn't own the word "bloviating". He may have squatters rights.

    ...and out of tens of thousands you can't even think of one of your own!

    If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!

    So pathetic and lame that you snipped the rest of what I posted, rather than subjecting it to your laser-like analytical scrutiny.

    In this particular case Gnatguy is complaining about Biden not having a plan, when Biden has enough sense to be working on setting up the consultations which would assemble the kind of expert opinions you'd need to allow you to set up a
    sensible plan. Gnatguy doesn't see the necessity for that because he doesn't actually understand that the task is tolerably complicated - how could he?

    LOL! So, Sloman, so your phony story now is that Joe Biden is WORKING on putting together a team that will work on putting a plan together!!

    That's what the link to the US Department of Energy web site says that they are doing. If you think that that website is phony, do tell us why.

    Hey Sloman, this IS NOT a "plan" - it is just a wish list. So, YES, as a PLAN it is PHONY!

    Gnatguy wants there to be a plan, and hasn't noticed that you need to have a well-defined problem before you can set up a plan to solve it.

    Bozo Bill STILL can't find a plan from Lyin' Biden and feels compelled to make excuses for the senile pervert.


    First you work out exactly what you need to achieve, and then you can plan how you can do that. Gnatguy wants to skip the stages that he can't understand and get straight to the stage that he can understand - buying transformers and stringing up wires.
    Working out where you would need to put them is beyond him.

    That's ALREADY been done, Bozo Bill. Go back and READ the references I provided.

    That's RICH!!!

    Gnatguy can't see the point, and thinks that everybody else is equally brain-dead.

    No, just YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and enteratain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts. And you should READ your own posts - and fix the SPELLING ERRORS (virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error, not to speak of the irrational reasoning errors).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Fri Aug 12 00:20:12 2022
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.

    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    And you should READ your own posts - and fix the SPELLING ERRORS (virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error, not to speak of the irrational reasoning errors).

    But you don't take the risk of pointing out the typos - maybe you don't trust your own judgement well enough. And your grasp of what might be irrational is even less reliable. You have been known to express admiration for Donald Trump and to espouse his
    more bizarre items of election propaganda.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to GnatTurd on Fri Aug 12 15:29:00 2022
    GnatTurd <stinky2day@yahoo.com> wrote in news:e46dc1e0-7333-4576-937b- f5c6611701acn@googlegroups.com:

    virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error,

    "EVER ONE"? Really?

    Bwuahahahahahahaahah!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Fri Aug 12 17:49:25 2022
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.
    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.
    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE takes Bozo Bill seriously!
    And you should READ your own posts - and fix the SPELLING ERRORS (virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error, not to speak of the irrational reasoning errors).
    But you don't take the risk of pointing out the typos - maybe you don't trust your own judgement well enough. And your grasp of what might be irrational is even less reliable. You have been known to express admiration for Donald Trump and to espouse
    his more bizarre items of election propaganda.

    Oh, YES I HAVE! Like when you misspell YOUR OWN NAME!! And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Lyin' Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.


    --
    Bill the Bozo Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to DecadentLinux...@decadence.org on Fri Aug 12 17:50:50 2022
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 8:29:07 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    GnatTurd <stink...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:e46dc1e0-7333-4576-937b- f5c661...@googlegroups.com:
    virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error,
    "EVER ONE"? Really?

    Bwuahahahahahahaahah!

    Right - his last one was "enteratain"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Fri Aug 12 18:03:08 2022
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:50:54 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 8:29:07 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    GnatTurd <stink...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:e46dc1e0-7333-4576-937b- f5c661...@googlegroups.com:
    virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error,
    "EVER ONE"? Really?

    Bwuahahahahahahaahah!

    Right - his last one was "enteratain".

    Both are typo's. Gnatguy doesn't seem to know that everybody makes typo's and gets excited when he finds one in somebody else's output, and doesn't check carefully enough to completely avoid posting them in his responses - but neither does anybody else.

    He wasn't brave enough to single it out when he complained about it. He's not very bright, so he doesn't realise that he should have.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Aug 13 07:22:40 2022
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.
    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE takes Bozo Bill seriously!

    You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts. This isn't flattering, and I would rate you as a nobody, but presumably you wouldn't.

    And you should READ your own posts - and fix the SPELLING ERRORS (virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error, not to speak of the irrational reasoning errors).

    But you don't take the risk of pointing out the typos - maybe you don't trust your own judgement well enough. And your grasp of what might be irrational is even less reliable. You have been known to express admiration for Donald Trump and to espouse
    his more bizarre items of election propaganda.

    Oh, YES I HAVE! Like when you misspell YOUR OWN NAME!! And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

    Actually I never promoted fire-bombing any country - you just failed to understand what I was proposing. And doing a Project Plowshare exercise in earth-moving isn't "nuking your own country" and the proposal was aimed at denying an invader useful access
    to bits that they were about to take over, which weren't going to remain part of my own country. The irrationality involved is all in your defective comprehension.

    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Joe Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.

    It's not my claim

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems to come from the US Department of Energy. There's no obvious energy crisis. We can get as much energy as we need from solar cells and wind turbines, and both seem to be cheaper than any other source. We need more of both, and we need a certain
    amount of extra investment in the grid to shift the power from where and when it is going to be generated to where and when it is going to be used - both spatial and temporal transfers.

    It's a complicated job, and the plan that exists at the moment seems to be more to work out a detailed project plan than to immediately hire contractors for specific jobs which haven't yet been specified . This is pretty much what you'd expect after four
    years of a Trump administration. His promised wall never got built.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Mon Aug 15 06:26:07 2022
    Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote in news:2bcab769-7565-46b1-ae7f-0184a566936fn@googlegroups.com:

    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 8:29:07 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    GnatTurd <stink...@yahoo.com> wrote in
    news:e46dc1e0-7333-4576-937b- f5c661...@googlegroups.com:
    virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error,
    "EVER ONE"? Really?

    Bwuahahahahahahaahah!

    Right - his last one was "enteratain"


    The "ever one" error was your error, idiot.

    Goddamned spelling error crybaby?

    God damn boy, grow the fuck up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Mon Aug 15 13:47:51 2022
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.
    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE takes Bozo Bill seriously!
    You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts. This isn't flattering, and I would rate you as a nobody, but presumably you wouldn't.
    And you should READ your own posts - and fix the SPELLING ERRORS (virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error, not to speak of the irrational reasoning errors).

    But you don't take the risk of pointing out the typos - maybe you don't trust your own judgement well enough. And your grasp of what might be irrational is even less reliable. You have been known to express admiration for Donald Trump and to
    espouse his more bizarre items of election propaganda.

    Oh, YES I HAVE! Like when you misspell YOUR OWN NAME!! And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!
    Actually I never promoted fire-bombing any country - you just failed to understand what I was proposing. And doing a Project Plowshare exercise in earth-moving isn't "nuking your own country" and the proposal was aimed at denying an invader useful
    access to bits that they were about to take over, which weren't going to remain part of my own country. The irrationality involved is all in your defective comprehension.

    LOL! Yes YOU DID, Bozo! And, YES, setting off nuclear bombs to deny access IS nuking your own country!!


    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Joe Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.

    It's not my claim

    Well, YOU kept on making it, so it IS your claim.


    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems to come from the US Department of Energy. There's no obvious energy crisis. We can get as much energy as we need from solar cells and wind turbines, and both seem to be cheaper than any other source. We need more of both, and we need a certain
    amount of extra investment in the grid to shift the power from where and when it is going to be generated to where and when it is going to be used - both spatial and temporal transfers.

    Yes, there IS a crisis: CA has ALREADY had numerous blackouts and other states are border-line depending upon temperatures. This is only going to GET WORSE as more coal plants get closed. And, NO, unreliable renewables ARE NOT going to fix it, even if
    enough money is spent, which isn't happening.


    It's a complicated job, and the plan that exists at the moment seems to be more to work out a detailed project plan than to immediately hire contractors for specific jobs which haven't yet been specified . This is pretty much what you'd expect after
    four years of a Trump administration. His promised wall never got built.

    A plan to come up with a plan IS NOT A PLAN, Bozo!!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Mon Aug 15 13:52:25 2022
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 11:17:37 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

    Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn't talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you'd go through when putting one together.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    Again, Sloman, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can't find any such plan.

    Gnatguy is confident that he knows what other people are doing. In practice he does seem to assume that they are as stupid as he is, which is very rarely true.

    Hey Sloman, until you produce the goods we all know you are just BLOVIATING!

    Gnatguy bloviating again.

    Sloman is at such a loss of words that he MUST USE MINE!!!!

    Gnatguy doesn't own the word "bloviating". He may have squatters rights.
    ...and out of tens of thousands you can't even think of one of your own!
    If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!

    So pathetic and lame that you snipped the rest of what I posted, rather than subjecting it to your laser-like analytical scrutiny.

    In this particular case Gnatguy is complaining about Biden not having a plan, when Biden has enough sense to be working on setting up the consultations which would assemble the kind of expert opinions you'd need to allow you to set up a
    sensible plan. Gnatguy doesn't see the necessity for that because he doesn't actually understand that the task is tolerably complicated - how could he?

    LOL! So, Sloman, so your phony story now is that Joe Biden is WORKING on putting together a team that will work on putting a plan together!!

    That's what the link to the US Department of Energy web site says that they are doing. If you think that that website is phony, do tell us why.

    Hey Sloman, this IS NOT a "plan" - it is just a wish list. So, YES, as a PLAN it is PHONY!

    Gnatguy wants there to be a plan, and hasn't noticed that you need to have a well-defined problem before you can set up a plan to solve it.
    Bozo Bill STILL can't find a plan from Lyin' Biden and feels compelled to make excuses for the senile pervert.

    First you work out exactly what you need to achieve, and then you can plan how you can do that. Gnatguy wants to skip the stages that he can't understand and get straight to the stage that he can understand - buying transformers and stringing up
    wires. Working out where you would need to put them is beyond him.
    That's ALREADY been done, Bozo Bill. Go back and READ the references I provided.
    That's RICH!!!

    Gnatguy can't see the point, and thinks that everybody else is equally brain-dead.

    No, just YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and enteratain us with an even more transparently stupid response.
    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts. And you should READ your own posts - and fix the SPELLING ERRORS (virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error, not to speak of the irrational reasoning errors).

    You claim the typo was someone else's error, but here it is, clearly YOUR error. "EVER ONE" just above. See it? Your error.

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to Ricky on Mon Aug 15 15:32:05 2022
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 1:52:30 PM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 11:17:37 PM UTC-4, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    If you could find one - which you CAN'T - you would be parading it around like your new outfit at a gay pride parade.

    Why would I bother? I did actually post this link, which isn't talking about a plan, but rather the consultation that you'd go through when putting one together.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    Again, Sloman, we ALL KNOW that you are BLOWING SMOKE and can't find any such plan.

    Gnatguy is confident that he knows what other people are doing. In practice he does seem to assume that they are as stupid as he is, which is very rarely true.

    Hey Sloman, until you produce the goods we all know you are just BLOVIATING!

    Gnatguy bloviating again.

    Sloman is at such a loss of words that he MUST USE MINE!!!!

    Gnatguy doesn't own the word "bloviating". He may have squatters rights.
    ...and out of tens of thousands you can't even think of one of your own!
    If you had you would have posted it instead of making those PATHETIC, LAME EXCUSES!

    So pathetic and lame that you snipped the rest of what I posted, rather than subjecting it to your laser-like analytical scrutiny.

    In this particular case Gnatguy is complaining about Biden not having a plan, when Biden has enough sense to be working on setting up the consultations which would assemble the kind of expert opinions you'd need to allow you to set up a
    sensible plan. Gnatguy doesn't see the necessity for that because he doesn't actually understand that the task is tolerably complicated - how could he?

    LOL! So, Sloman, so your phony story now is that Joe Biden is WORKING on putting together a team that will work on putting a plan together!!

    That's what the link to the US Department of Energy web site says that they are doing. If you think that that website is phony, do tell us why.

    Hey Sloman, this IS NOT a "plan" - it is just a wish list. So, YES, as a PLAN it is PHONY!

    Gnatguy wants there to be a plan, and hasn't noticed that you need to have a well-defined problem before you can set up a plan to solve it.
    Bozo Bill STILL can't find a plan from Lyin' Biden and feels compelled to make excuses for the senile pervert.

    First you work out exactly what you need to achieve, and then you can plan how you can do that. Gnatguy wants to skip the stages that he can't understand and get straight to the stage that he can understand - buying transformers and stringing up
    wires. Working out where you would need to put them is beyond him.
    That's ALREADY been done, Bozo Bill. Go back and READ the references I provided.
    That's RICH!!!

    Gnatguy can't see the point, and thinks that everybody else is equally brain-dead.

    No, just YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and enteratain us with an even more transparently stupid response.
    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts. And you should READ your own posts - and fix the SPELLING ERRORS (virtually EVER ONE you post has at least one spelling error, not to speak of the irrational reasoning errors).
    You claim the typo was someone else's error, but here it is, clearly YOUR error. "EVER ONE" just above. See it? Your error.

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    LOL! Bozo Bill can't even SPELL HIS OWN NAME!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Mon Aug 15 22:20:03 2022
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.

    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE takes Bozo Bill seriously!

    You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts. This isn't flattering, and I would rate you as a nobody, but presumably you wouldn't.

    <snipped the usual drivel>

    And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

    Actually I never promoted fire-bombing any country - you just failed to understand what I was proposing. And doing a Project Plowshare exercise in earth-moving isn't "nuking your own country" and the proposal was aimed at denying an invader useful
    access to bits that they were about to take over, which weren't going to remain part of my own country. The irrationality involved is all in your defective comprehension.

    LOL! Yes YOU DID, Bozo! And, YES, setting off nuclear bombs to deny access IS nuking your own country!!

    Gnatguy fails reading comprehension again. Or rather succeeds in misunderstanding the original text in a way that suits him.

    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Joe Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.

    It's not my claim.

    Well, YOU kept on making it, so it IS your claim.

    Not exactly. It's actually your claim, and I had to dig out the Department of Energy link to work out what you were carrying on about.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems to come from the US Department of Energy. There's no obvious energy crisis. We can get as much energy as we need from solar cells and wind turbines, and both seem to be cheaper than any other source. We need more of both, and we need a certain
    amount of extra investment in the grid to shift the power from where and when it is going to be generated to where and when it is going to be used - both spatial and temporal transfers.

    Yes, there IS a crisis: CA has ALREADY had numerous blackouts and other states are border-line depending upon temperatures. This is only going to GET WORSE as more coal plants get closed. And, NO, unreliable renewables ARE NOT going to fix it, even if
    enough money is spent, which isn't happening.

    That may be a crisis, but it's one driven by climate change putting extra demands on the grid, not the choices being made about how the extra electricity is going to be generated. Lunatic like you imagining that more inflexible coal -fired plants being
    built would help are part of the problem. Fast-start gas-fired plants could be helpful in the short term, but grid storage is a better long term solution, but getting you to wrap your head around that is probably impossible.

    It's a complicated job, and the plan that exists at the moment seems to be more to work out a detailed project plan than to immediately hire contractors for specific jobs which haven't yet been specified . This is pretty much what you'd expect after
    four years of a Trump administration. His promised wall never got built.

    A plan to come up with a plan IS NOT A PLAN, Bozo!!!!

    It clearly is a plan. It's not the "plan" that you claim doesn't exist. You want Biden to have come up with some kind of different plan that you can be rude about. but you can't post any kind of link to it, so you are forced to invent your own non-plan
    and try to foist that on him.

    You really are transparently idiotic.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Tue Aug 16 22:21:51 2022
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.

    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE takes Bozo Bill seriously!

    You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts. This isn't flattering, and I would rate you as a nobody, but presumably you wouldn't.
    <snipped the usual drivel>
    And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

    Actually I never promoted fire-bombing any country - you just failed to understand what I was proposing. And doing a Project Plowshare exercise in earth-moving isn't "nuking your own country" and the proposal was aimed at denying an invader useful
    access to bits that they were about to take over, which weren't going to remain part of my own country. The irrationality involved is all in your defective comprehension.

    LOL! Yes YOU DID, Bozo! And, YES, setting off nuclear bombs to deny access IS nuking your own country!!
    Gnatguy fails reading comprehension again. Or rather succeeds in misunderstanding the original text in a way that suits him.
    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Joe Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.

    It's not my claim.

    Well, YOU kept on making it, so it IS your claim.
    Not exactly. It's actually your claim, and I had to dig out the Department of Energy link to work out what you were carrying on about.
    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems to come from the US Department of Energy. There's no obvious energy crisis. We can get as much energy as we need from solar cells and wind turbines, and both seem to be cheaper than any other source. We need more of both, and we need a
    certain amount of extra investment in the grid to shift the power from where and when it is going to be generated to where and when it is going to be used - both spatial and temporal transfers.

    Yes, there IS a crisis: CA has ALREADY had numerous blackouts and other states are border-line depending upon temperatures. This is only going to GET WORSE as more coal plants get closed. And, NO, unreliable renewables ARE NOT going to fix it, even
    if enough money is spent, which isn't happening.
    That may be a crisis, but it's one driven by climate change putting extra demands on the grid, not the choices being made about how the extra electricity is going to be generated. Lunatic like you imagining that more inflexible coal -fired plants being
    built would help are part of the problem. Fast-start gas-fired plants could be helpful in the short term, but grid storage is a better long term solution, but getting you to wrap your head around that is probably impossible.
    It's a complicated job, and the plan that exists at the moment seems to be more to work out a detailed project plan than to immediately hire contractors for specific jobs which haven't yet been specified . This is pretty much what you'd expect
    after four years of a Trump administration. His promised wall never got built.

    A plan to come up with a plan IS NOT A PLAN, Bozo!!!!
    It clearly is a plan. It's not the "plan" that you claim doesn't exist. You want Biden to have come up with some kind of different plan that you can be rude about. but you can't post any kind of link to it, so you are forced to invent your own non-plan
    and try to foist that on him.

    You really are transparently idiotic.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo Bill, did you actually READ this piece of shit? There IS NO PLAN, there isn't even a hint of a plan. They talk about "catalyzing" the discussion - this is bureaucratic bullshit for PASSING THE BUCK! There is absolutely NOTHING about funding, and
    there CAN'T BE because Congress has to AUTHORIZE that! This is nothing more than a SMOKE SCREEN to hide the fact that Lyin' Biden and his lackies are doing NOTHING about the issue.

    So, I repeat: Lyin' Biden HAS NO PLAN for expanding and modernizing the electrical grid and this is evidence of that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Aug 17 05:05:18 2022
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.

    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE take Bill seriously!

    You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts. This isn't flattering, and I would rate you as a nobody, but presumably you wouldn't.

    <snipped the usual drivel>

    And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

    Actually I never promoted fire-bombing any country - you just failed to understand what I was proposing. And doing a Project Plowshare exercise in earth-moving isn't "nuking your own country" and the proposal was aimed at denying an invader
    useful access to bits that they were about to take over, which weren't going to remain part of my own country. The irrationality involved is all in your defective comprehension.

    LOL! Yes YOU DID! And, YES, setting off nuclear bombs to deny access IS nuking your own country!!

    Gnatguy likes argument by mindless repetitiion. What mind he has got left isn't up to any other kind of argument, so he doesn't have much choice.

    Gnatguy fails reading comprehension again. Or rather succeeds in misunderstanding the original text in a way that suits him.

    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Joe Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.

    It's not my claim.

    Well, YOU kept on making it, so it IS your claim.

    Not exactly. It's actually your claim, and I had to dig out the Department of Energy link to work out what you were carrying on about.
    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems to come from the US Department of Energy. There's no obvious energy crisis. We can get as much energy as we need from solar cells and wind turbines, and both seem to be cheaper than any other source. We need more of both, and we need a
    certain amount of extra investment in the grid to shift the power from where and when it is going to be generated to where and when it is going to be used - both spatial and temporal transfers.

    Yes, there IS a crisis: CA has ALREADY had numerous blackouts and other states are border-line depending upon temperatures.

    Or that's what Fox News has told you.

    This is only going to GET WORSE as more coal plants get closed. And, NO, unreliable renewables ARE NOT going to fix it, even if enough money is spent, which isn't happening.

    That may be a crisis, but it's one driven by climate change putting extra demands on the grid, not the choices being made about how the extra electricity is going to be generated. Lunatic like you imagining that more inflexible coal -fired plants
    being built would help are part of the problem. Fast-start gas-fired plants could be helpful in the short term, but grid storage is a better long term solution, but getting you to wrap your head around that is probably impossible.

    It's a complicated job, and the plan that exists at the moment seems to be more to work out a detailed project plan than to immediately hire contractors for specific jobs which haven't yet been specified . This is pretty much what you'd expect
    after four years of a Trump administration. His promised wall never got built.

    A plan to come up with a plan IS NOT A PLAN!!!!

    It clearly is a plan. It's not the "plan" that you claim doesn't exist. You want Biden to have come up with some kind of different plan that you can be rude about. but you can't post any kind of link to it, so you are forced to invent your own non-
    plan and try to foist that on him.

    You really are transparently idiotic.

    Hey Bill, did you actually READ this piece of shit?

    Of course I did. Unlike you, I know enough to appreciate what they were saying.

    There IS NO PLAN, there isn't even a hint of a plan.

    None that you can understand.

    They talk about "catalyzing" the discussion - this is bureaucratic bullshit for PASSING THE BUCK! There is absolutely NOTHING about funding, and there CAN'T BE because Congress has to AUTHORIZE that!

    There's no point in talking about funding until you know what you want tot do.

    This is nothing more than a SMOKE SCREEN to hide the fact that Joe Biden and his lackies are doing NOTHING about the issue.

    Working out what needs to be done is a necessary preliminary to getting on and doing something. Trump decided that building a wall along the US Mexican border would solve the illegal immigrant problem - which is probably wouldn't have done, but since he
    never got around to building it, we never got to find out.

    So, I repeat: Joe Biden HAS NO PLAN for expanding and modernizing the electrical grid and this is evidence of that.

    Wrong. He clearly has a plan, and the first step in that plan to to work out which bits need to be expanded ( and by how much). Quite what modernisation means in this context - the Department of Energy piece talks about the making the links more robust
    to cope with more extreme weather, but there's nothing all that modern about making the structures more robust. Putting in battery based grid storage would be a modern innovation - pumped hydroelectric stage has been around for ages, but that doesn't get
    explicitly mentioned.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Wed Aug 17 19:10:34 2022
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.

    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE take Bill seriously!

    You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts. This isn't flattering, and I would rate you as a nobody, but presumably you wouldn't.

    <snipped the usual drivel>

    And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

    Actually I never promoted fire-bombing any country - you just failed to understand what I was proposing. And doing a Project Plowshare exercise in earth-moving isn't "nuking your own country" and the proposal was aimed at denying an invader
    useful access to bits that they were about to take over, which weren't going to remain part of my own country. The irrationality involved is all in your defective comprehension.

    LOL! Yes YOU DID! And, YES, setting off nuclear bombs to deny access IS nuking your own country!!

    Gnatguy likes argument by mindless repetitiion. What mind he has got left isn't up to any other kind of argument, so he doesn't have much choice.
    Gnatguy fails reading comprehension again. Or rather succeeds in misunderstanding the original text in a way that suits him.

    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Joe Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.

    It's not my claim.

    Well, YOU kept on making it, so it IS your claim.

    Not exactly. It's actually your claim, and I had to dig out the Department of Energy link to work out what you were carrying on about.
    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems to come from the US Department of Energy. There's no obvious energy crisis. We can get as much energy as we need from solar cells and wind turbines, and both seem to be cheaper than any other source. We need more of both, and we need a
    certain amount of extra investment in the grid to shift the power from where and when it is going to be generated to where and when it is going to be used - both spatial and temporal transfers.

    Yes, there IS a crisis: CA has ALREADY had numerous blackouts and other states are border-line depending upon temperatures.
    Or that's what Fox News has told you.
    This is only going to GET WORSE as more coal plants get closed. And, NO, unreliable renewables ARE NOT going to fix it, even if enough money is spent, which isn't happening.

    That may be a crisis, but it's one driven by climate change putting extra demands on the grid, not the choices being made about how the extra electricity is going to be generated. Lunatic like you imagining that more inflexible coal -fired plants
    being built would help are part of the problem. Fast-start gas-fired plants could be helpful in the short term, but grid storage is a better long term solution, but getting you to wrap your head around that is probably impossible.

    It's a complicated job, and the plan that exists at the moment seems to be more to work out a detailed project plan than to immediately hire contractors for specific jobs which haven't yet been specified . This is pretty much what you'd expect
    after four years of a Trump administration. His promised wall never got built.

    A plan to come up with a plan IS NOT A PLAN!!!!

    It clearly is a plan. It's not the "plan" that you claim doesn't exist. You want Biden to have come up with some kind of different plan that you can be rude about. but you can't post any kind of link to it, so you are forced to invent your own non-
    plan and try to foist that on him.

    You really are transparently idiotic.

    Hey Bill, did you actually READ this piece of shit?

    Of course I did. Unlike you, I know enough to appreciate what they were saying.
    There IS NO PLAN, there isn't even a hint of a plan.
    None that you can understand.
    They talk about "catalyzing" the discussion - this is bureaucratic bullshit for PASSING THE BUCK! There is absolutely NOTHING about funding, and there CAN'T BE because Congress has to AUTHORIZE that!
    There's no point in talking about funding until you know what you want tot do.

    This is nothing more than a SMOKE SCREEN to hide the fact that Joe Biden and his lackies are doing NOTHING about the issue.

    Working out what needs to be done is a necessary preliminary to getting on and doing something. Trump decided that building a wall along the US Mexican border would solve the illegal immigrant problem - which is probably wouldn't have done, but since
    he never got around to building it, we never got to find out.

    So, I repeat: Joe Biden HAS NO PLAN for expanding and modernizing the electrical grid and this is evidence of that.

    Wrong. He clearly has a plan, and the first step in that plan to to work out which bits need to be expanded ( and by how much). Quite what modernisation means in this context - the Department of Energy piece talks about the making the links more robust
    to cope with more extreme weather, but there's nothing all that modern about making the structures more robust. Putting in battery based grid storage would be a modern innovation - pumped hydroelectric stage has been around for ages, but that doesn't get
    explicitly mentioned.

    --
    Bozo Bill, Sydney

    Hey Bozo Bill, NO it is not a "plan." Never was, never meant to be. It states: "Independent estimates indicate that we need to expand electricity transmission systems by 60% by 2030, and may need to triple it by 2050."
    But, HOW is this to be done? Here is Lyin' Biden's answer:
    "Engaging and collaborating early with states, tribal nations, and stakeholders to accelerate transmission deployment. "
    This is called PASSING THE BUCK! Lyin' Biden is going to do a DAMN THING, he expects the states, etc. to do it. Don't you GET THE POINT? Lyin' Biden and the rest of the Feds have NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING!
    Conclusion: Lyin' Biden HAS NO PLAN, NEVER HAD A PLAN, AND HAS NO PLAN TO GET A PLAN!!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Aug 17 19:54:51 2022
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.

    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE take Bill seriously!

    You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts. This isn't flattering, and I would rate you as a nobody, but presumably you wouldn't.

    <snipped the usual drivel>

    And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

    Actually I never promoted fire-bombing any country - you just failed to understand what I was proposing. And doing a Project Plowshare exercise in earth-moving isn't "nuking your own country" and the proposal was aimed at denying an invader
    useful access to bits that they were about to take over, which weren't going to remain part of my own country. The irrationality involved is all in your defective comprehension.

    LOL! Yes YOU DID! And, YES, setting off nuclear bombs to deny access IS nuking your own country!!

    Gnatguy likes argument by mindless repetitiion. What mind he has got left isn't up to any other kind of argument, so he doesn't have much choice.
    Gnatguy fails reading comprehension again. Or rather succeeds in misunderstanding the original text in a way that suits him.

    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Joe Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.

    It's not my claim.

    Well, YOU kept on making it, so it IS your claim.

    Not exactly. It's actually your claim, and I had to dig out the Department of Energy link to work out what you were carrying on about.
    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems to come from the US Department of Energy. There's no obvious energy crisis. We can get as much energy as we need from solar cells and wind turbines, and both seem to be cheaper than any other source. We need more of both, and we need a
    certain amount of extra investment in the grid to shift the power from where and when it is going to be generated to where and when it is going to be used - both spatial and temporal transfers.

    Yes, there IS a crisis: CA has ALREADY had numerous blackouts and other states are border-line depending upon temperatures.
    Or that's what Fox News has told you.
    This is only going to GET WORSE as more coal plants get closed. And, NO, unreliable renewables ARE NOT going to fix it, even if enough money is spent, which isn't happening.

    That may be a crisis, but it's one driven by climate change putting extra demands on the grid, not the choices being made about how the extra electricity is going to be generated. Lunatic like you imagining that more inflexible coal -fired plants
    being built would help are part of the problem. Fast-start gas-fired plants could be helpful in the short term, but grid storage is a better long term solution, but getting you to wrap your head around that is probably impossible.

    It's a complicated job, and the plan that exists at the moment seems to be more to work out a detailed project plan than to immediately hire contractors for specific jobs which haven't yet been specified . This is pretty much what you'd
    expect after four years of a Trump administration. His promised wall never got built.

    A plan to come up with a plan IS NOT A PLAN!!!!

    It clearly is a plan. It's not the "plan" that you claim doesn't exist. You want Biden to have come up with some kind of different plan that you can be rude about. but you can't post any kind of link to it, so you are forced to invent your own
    non-plan and try to foist that on him.

    You really are transparently idiotic.

    Hey Bill, did you actually READ this piece of shit?

    Of course I did. Unlike you, I know enough to appreciate what they were saying.

    There IS NO PLAN, there isn't even a hint of a plan.

    None that you can understand.

    They talk about "catalyzing" the discussion - this is bureaucratic bullshit for PASSING THE BUCK! There is absolutely NOTHING about funding, and there CAN'T BE because Congress has to AUTHORIZE that!
    There's no point in talking about funding until you know what you want tot do.

    This is nothing more than a SMOKE SCREEN to hide the fact that Joe Biden and his lackies are doing NOTHING about the issue.

    Working out what needs to be done is a necessary preliminary to getting on and doing something. Trump decided that building a wall along the US Mexican border would solve the illegal immigrant problem - which is probably wouldn't have done, but since
    he never got around to building it, we never got to find out.

    So, I repeat: Joe Biden HAS NO PLAN for expanding and modernizing the electrical grid and this is evidence of that.

    Wrong. He clearly has a plan, and the first step in that plan to to work out which bits need to be expanded ( and by how much). Quite what modernisation means in this context - the Department of Energy piece talks about the making the links more
    robust to cope with more extreme weather, but there's nothing all that modern about making the structures more robust. Putting in battery based grid storage would be a modern innovation - pumped hydroelectric stage has been around for ages, but that
    doesn't get explicitly mentioned.

    Hey Bozo Bill, NO it is not a "plan." Never was, never meant to be. It states:
    "Independent estimates indicate that we need to expand electricity transmission systems by 60% by 2030, and may need to triple it by 2050."

    But, HOW is this to be done? Here is Joe Biden's answer:

    "Engaging and collaborating early with states, tribal nations, and stakeholders to accelerate transmission deployment. "

    This is called PASSING THE BUCK!

    That may be what you wan to call it. Everybody else calls it consultation.

    Joe Biden is going to do a DAMN THING, he expects the states, etc. to do it.

    No. He's asking for their points of view about what needs to be done. There's no suggestion that they would be required to do it, and it wouldn't make sense to expect them to set up a nation-wide system on their own.

    Don't you GET THE POINT? Joe Biden and the rest of the Feds have NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING!

    But they do have a duty to proposed legislation to Congress that would have the power to make real changes.

    Conclusion: Joe Biden HAS NO PLAN, NEVER HAD A PLAN, AND HAS NO PLAN TO GET A PLAN!!!!

    A mire accurate conclusion is that Gnatguy hasn't got clue, never had a clue and imagines that Biden's adminstration is just as clueless as he is. If you were as dim as Gnatguy, it probably would be difficult to appreciate that 95% of the population can
    think more clearly than Gnatguy can. That may be 99% or more.

    Gnatguy is remarkably stupid, but he also suffers from excess gullibility which means that he believes Donald Trump's lying propaganda.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Wed Aug 17 20:00:37 2022
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.

    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE take Bill seriously!

    You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts. This isn't flattering, and I would rate you as a nobody, but presumably you wouldn't.

    <snipped the usual drivel>

    And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

    Actually I never promoted fire-bombing any country - you just failed to understand what I was proposing. And doing a Project Plowshare exercise in earth-moving isn't "nuking your own country" and the proposal was aimed at denying an invader
    useful access to bits that they were about to take over, which weren't going to remain part of my own country. The irrationality involved is all in your defective comprehension.

    LOL! Yes YOU DID! And, YES, setting off nuclear bombs to deny access IS nuking your own country!!

    Gnatguy likes argument by mindless repetitiion. What mind he has got left isn't up to any other kind of argument, so he doesn't have much choice.
    Gnatguy fails reading comprehension again. Or rather succeeds in misunderstanding the original text in a way that suits him.

    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Joe Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.

    It's not my claim.

    Well, YOU kept on making it, so it IS your claim.

    Not exactly. It's actually your claim, and I had to dig out the Department of Energy link to work out what you were carrying on about.
    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems to come from the US Department of Energy. There's no obvious energy crisis. We can get as much energy as we need from solar cells and wind turbines, and both seem to be cheaper than any other source. We need more of both, and we need
    a certain amount of extra investment in the grid to shift the power from where and when it is going to be generated to where and when it is going to be used - both spatial and temporal transfers.

    Yes, there IS a crisis: CA has ALREADY had numerous blackouts and other states are border-line depending upon temperatures.
    Or that's what Fox News has told you.
    This is only going to GET WORSE as more coal plants get closed. And, NO, unreliable renewables ARE NOT going to fix it, even if enough money is spent, which isn't happening.

    That may be a crisis, but it's one driven by climate change putting extra demands on the grid, not the choices being made about how the extra electricity is going to be generated. Lunatic like you imagining that more inflexible coal -fired
    plants being built would help are part of the problem. Fast-start gas-fired plants could be helpful in the short term, but grid storage is a better long term solution, but getting you to wrap your head around that is probably impossible.

    It's a complicated job, and the plan that exists at the moment seems to be more to work out a detailed project plan than to immediately hire contractors for specific jobs which haven't yet been specified . This is pretty much what you'd
    expect after four years of a Trump administration. His promised wall never got built.

    A plan to come up with a plan IS NOT A PLAN!!!!

    It clearly is a plan. It's not the "plan" that you claim doesn't exist. You want Biden to have come up with some kind of different plan that you can be rude about. but you can't post any kind of link to it, so you are forced to invent your own
    non-plan and try to foist that on him.

    You really are transparently idiotic.

    Hey Bill, did you actually READ this piece of shit?

    Of course I did. Unlike you, I know enough to appreciate what they were saying.

    There IS NO PLAN, there isn't even a hint of a plan.

    None that you can understand.

    They talk about "catalyzing" the discussion - this is bureaucratic bullshit for PASSING THE BUCK! There is absolutely NOTHING about funding, and there CAN'T BE because Congress has to AUTHORIZE that!
    There's no point in talking about funding until you know what you want tot do.

    This is nothing more than a SMOKE SCREEN to hide the fact that Joe Biden and his lackies are doing NOTHING about the issue.

    Working out what needs to be done is a necessary preliminary to getting on and doing something. Trump decided that building a wall along the US Mexican border would solve the illegal immigrant problem - which is probably wouldn't have done, but
    since he never got around to building it, we never got to find out.

    So, I repeat: Joe Biden HAS NO PLAN for expanding and modernizing the electrical grid and this is evidence of that.

    Wrong. He clearly has a plan, and the first step in that plan to to work out which bits need to be expanded ( and by how much). Quite what modernisation means in this context - the Department of Energy piece talks about the making the links more
    robust to cope with more extreme weather, but there's nothing all that modern about making the structures more robust. Putting in battery based grid storage would be a modern innovation - pumped hydroelectric stage has been around for ages, but that
    doesn't get explicitly mentioned.

    Hey Bozo Bill, NO it is not a "plan." Never was, never meant to be. It states:
    "Independent estimates indicate that we need to expand electricity transmission systems by 60% by 2030, and may need to triple it by 2050."

    But, HOW is this to be done? Here is Joe Biden's answer:

    "Engaging and collaborating early with states, tribal nations, and stakeholders to accelerate transmission deployment. "

    This is called PASSING THE BUCK!
    That may be what you wan to call it. Everybody else calls it consultation.

    Joe Biden is going to do a DAMN THING, he expects the states, etc. to do it.

    No. He's asking for their points of view about what needs to be done. There's no suggestion that they would be required to do it, and it wouldn't make sense to expect them to set up a nation-wide system on their own.

    Don't you GET THE POINT? Joe Biden and the rest of the Feds have NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING!

    But they do have a duty to proposed legislation to Congress that would have the power to make real changes.

    Conclusion: Joe Biden HAS NO PLAN, NEVER HAD A PLAN, AND HAS NO PLAN TO GET A PLAN!!!!

    A mire accurate conclusion is that Gnatguy hasn't got clue, never had a clue and imagines that Biden's adminstration is just as clueless as he is. If you were as dim as Gnatguy, it probably would be difficult to appreciate that 95% of the population
    can think more clearly than Gnatguy can. That may be 99% or more.

    Gnatguy is remarkably stupid, but he also suffers from excess gullibility which means that he believes Donald Trump's lying propaganda.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    "Mire?" "adminstratio?"
    Dimwit Bozo Bill couldn't describe a plan to wipe his ass, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    No, this IS NOT a plan, Bozo.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Aug 17 21:58:48 2022
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.

    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE take Bill seriously!

    You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts. This isn't flattering, and I would rate you as a nobody, but presumably you wouldn't.

    <snipped the usual drivel>

    And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

    Actually I never promoted fire-bombing any country - you just failed to understand what I was proposing. And doing a Project Plowshare exercise in earth-moving isn't "nuking your own country" and the proposal was aimed at denying an
    invader useful access to bits that they were about to take over, which weren't going to remain part of my own country. The irrationality involved is all in your defective comprehension.

    LOL! Yes YOU DID! And, YES, setting off nuclear bombs to deny access IS nuking your own country!!

    Gnatguy likes argument by mindless repetitiion. What mind he has got left isn't up to any other kind of argument, so he doesn't have much choice.

    Gnatguy fails reading comprehension again. Or rather succeeds in misunderstanding the original text in a way that suits him.

    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Joe Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.

    It's not my claim.

    Well, YOU kept on making it, so it IS your claim.

    Not exactly. It's actually your claim, and I had to dig out the Department of Energy link to work out what you were carrying on about.
    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems to come from the US Department of Energy. There's no obvious energy crisis. We can get as much energy as we need from solar cells and wind turbines, and both seem to be cheaper than any other source. We need more of both, and we
    need a certain amount of extra investment in the grid to shift the power from where and when it is going to be generated to where and when it is going to be used - both spatial and temporal transfers.

    Yes, there IS a crisis: CA has ALREADY had numerous blackouts and other states are border-line depending upon temperatures.

    Or that's what Fox News has told you.

    This is only going to GET WORSE as more coal plants get closed. And, NO, unreliable renewables ARE NOT going to fix it, even if enough money is spent, which isn't happening.

    That may be a crisis, but it's one driven by climate change putting extra demands on the grid, not the choices being made about how the extra electricity is going to be generated. Lunatics like you imagining that more inflexible coal -fired
    plants being built would help are part of the problem. Fast-start gas-fired plants could be helpful in the short term, but grid storage is a better long term solution, but getting you to wrap your head around that is probably impossible.

    It's a complicated job, and the plan that exists at the moment seems to be more to work out a detailed project plan than to immediately hire contractors for specific jobs which haven't yet been specified . This is pretty much what you'd
    expect after four years of a Trump administration. His promised wall never got built.

    A plan to come up with a plan IS NOT A PLAN!!!!

    It clearly is a plan. It's not the "plan" that you claim doesn't exist. You want Biden to have come up with some kind of different plan that you can be rude about. but you can't post any kind of link to it, so you are forced to invent your
    own non-plan and try to foist that on him.

    You really are transparently idiotic.

    Hey Bill, did you actually READ this piece of shit?

    Of course I did. Unlike you, I know enough to appreciate what they were saying.

    There IS NO PLAN, there isn't even a hint of a plan.

    None that you can understand.

    They talk about "catalyzing" the discussion - this is bureaucratic bullshit for PASSING THE BUCK! There is absolutely NOTHING about funding, and there CAN'T BE because Congress has to AUTHORIZE that!

    There's no point in talking about funding until you know what you want to do.

    This is nothing more than a SMOKE SCREEN to hide the fact that Joe Biden and his lackies are doing NOTHING about the issue.

    Working out what needs to be done is a necessary preliminary to getting on and doing something. Trump decided that building a wall along the US Mexican border would solve the illegal immigrant problem - which is probably wouldn't have done, but
    since he never got around to building it, we never got to find out.

    So, I repeat: Joe Biden HAS NO PLAN for expanding and modernizing the electrical grid and this is evidence of that.

    Wrong. He clearly has a plan, and the first step in that plan to to work out which bits need to be expanded ( and by how much). Quite what modernisation means in this context - the Department of Energy piece talks about the making the links more
    robust to cope with more extreme weather, but there's nothing all that modern about making the structures more robust. Putting in battery based grid storage would be a modern innovation - pumped hydroelectric stage has been around for ages, but that
    doesn't get explicitly mentioned.

    Hey Bozo Bill, NO it is not a "plan." Never was, never meant to be. It states:
    "Independent estimates indicate that we need to expand electricity transmission systems by 60% by 2030, and may need to triple it by 2050."

    But, HOW is this to be done? Here is Joe Biden's answer:

    "Engaging and collaborating early with states, tribal nations, and stakeholders to accelerate transmission deployment. "

    This is called PASSING THE BUCK!

    That may be what you wan to call it. Everybody else calls it consultation.

    Joe Biden is going to do a DAMN THING, he expects the states, etc. to do it.

    No. He's asking for their points of view about what needs to be done. There's no suggestion that they would be required to do it, and it wouldn't make sense to expect them to set up a nation-wide system on their own.

    Don't you GET THE POINT? Joe Biden and the rest of the Feds have NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING!

    But they do have a duty to proposed legislation to Congress that would have the power to make real changes.

    Conclusion: Joe Biden HAS NO PLAN, NEVER HAD A PLAN, AND HAS NO PLAN TO GET A PLAN!!!!

    A more accurate conclusion is that Gnatguy hasn't got clue, never had a clue and imagines that Biden's administration is just as clueless as he is. If you were as dim as Gnatguy, it probably would be difficult to appreciate that 95% of the population
    can think more clearly than Gnatguy can. That may be 99% or more.

    Gnatguy is remarkably stupid, but he also suffers from excess gullibility which means that he believes Donald Trump's lying propaganda.

    <snipped complaints about typos>

    Bill couldn't describe a plan, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    Expanding the transmission network by 60% isn't replacing it, but supplementing it. You might get more capacity by running the existing network at a higher voltage, which would required replacing existing structures, but that's a choice. The real
    problem s that renewable energy is generated in places where you wouldn't put a coal fired generating plant, so you have to add transmission links to service the new generators.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/USA_electricity_production.svg

    The US expanded its transmission network roughly this fast between 1950 and 2000. It should be able to do it again.

    No, this IS NOT a plan.

    Not one that you could understand. Since Gnatguy can't understand how dim he is, he does tend to assume that other people are just as stupid as he is.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Thu Aug 18 17:06:57 2022
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Gnatguy is brain-dead enough to think that this his opinion is worth posting. This isn't really worth posting but Gnatguy will probably read it and entertain us with an even more transparently stupid response.

    Hey Bozo Bill, YOU keep replying to MY posts.

    Jeering at you is shooting a fish in a barrel, but if I didn't do it somebody might take you seriously.

    NEWS FLASH: NO ONE take Bill seriously!

    You take me seriously enough to respond to my posts. This isn't flattering, and I would rate you as a nobody, but presumably you wouldn't.

    <snipped the usual drivel>

    And don't talk about being irrational - you promote FIREBOMBING and NUKING YOUR OWN COUNTRY!!!

    Actually I never promoted fire-bombing any country - you just failed to understand what I was proposing. And doing a Project Plowshare exercise in earth-moving isn't "nuking your own country" and the proposal was aimed at denying an
    invader useful access to bits that they were about to take over, which weren't going to remain part of my own country. The irrationality involved is all in your defective comprehension.

    LOL! Yes YOU DID! And, YES, setting off nuclear bombs to deny access IS nuking your own country!!

    Gnatguy likes argument by mindless repetitiion. What mind he has got left isn't up to any other kind of argument, so he doesn't have much choice.

    Gnatguy fails reading comprehension again. Or rather succeeds in misunderstanding the original text in a way that suits him.

    At least this time you have dropped your FALSE CLAIM that Joe Biden has a plan to solve the energy crisis.

    It's not my claim.

    Well, YOU kept on making it, so it IS your claim.

    Not exactly. It's actually your claim, and I had to dig out the Department of Energy link to work out what you were carrying on about.
    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    seems to come from the US Department of Energy. There's no obvious energy crisis. We can get as much energy as we need from solar cells and wind turbines, and both seem to be cheaper than any other source. We need more of both, and we
    need a certain amount of extra investment in the grid to shift the power from where and when it is going to be generated to where and when it is going to be used - both spatial and temporal transfers.

    Yes, there IS a crisis: CA has ALREADY had numerous blackouts and other states are border-line depending upon temperatures.

    Or that's what Fox News has told you.

    This is only going to GET WORSE as more coal plants get closed. And, NO, unreliable renewables ARE NOT going to fix it, even if enough money is spent, which isn't happening.

    That may be a crisis, but it's one driven by climate change putting extra demands on the grid, not the choices being made about how the extra electricity is going to be generated. Lunatics like you imagining that more inflexible coal -fired
    plants being built would help are part of the problem. Fast-start gas-fired plants could be helpful in the short term, but grid storage is a better long term solution, but getting you to wrap your head around that is probably impossible.

    It's a complicated job, and the plan that exists at the moment seems to be more to work out a detailed project plan than to immediately hire contractors for specific jobs which haven't yet been specified . This is pretty much what you'd
    expect after four years of a Trump administration. His promised wall never got built.

    A plan to come up with a plan IS NOT A PLAN!!!!

    It clearly is a plan. It's not the "plan" that you claim doesn't exist. You want Biden to have come up with some kind of different plan that you can be rude about. but you can't post any kind of link to it, so you are forced to invent your
    own non-plan and try to foist that on him.

    You really are transparently idiotic.

    Hey Bill, did you actually READ this piece of shit?

    Of course I did. Unlike you, I know enough to appreciate what they were saying.

    There IS NO PLAN, there isn't even a hint of a plan.

    None that you can understand.

    They talk about "catalyzing" the discussion - this is bureaucratic bullshit for PASSING THE BUCK! There is absolutely NOTHING about funding, and there CAN'T BE because Congress has to AUTHORIZE that!

    There's no point in talking about funding until you know what you want to do.

    This is nothing more than a SMOKE SCREEN to hide the fact that Joe Biden and his lackies are doing NOTHING about the issue.

    Working out what needs to be done is a necessary preliminary to getting on and doing something. Trump decided that building a wall along the US Mexican border would solve the illegal immigrant problem - which is probably wouldn't have done, but
    since he never got around to building it, we never got to find out.

    So, I repeat: Joe Biden HAS NO PLAN for expanding and modernizing the electrical grid and this is evidence of that.

    Wrong. He clearly has a plan, and the first step in that plan to to work out which bits need to be expanded ( and by how much). Quite what modernisation means in this context - the Department of Energy piece talks about the making the links
    more robust to cope with more extreme weather, but there's nothing all that modern about making the structures more robust. Putting in battery based grid storage would be a modern innovation - pumped hydroelectric stage has been around for ages, but that
    doesn't get explicitly mentioned.

    Hey Bozo Bill, NO it is not a "plan." Never was, never meant to be. It states:
    "Independent estimates indicate that we need to expand electricity transmission systems by 60% by 2030, and may need to triple it by 2050."

    But, HOW is this to be done? Here is Joe Biden's answer:

    "Engaging and collaborating early with states, tribal nations, and stakeholders to accelerate transmission deployment. "

    This is called PASSING THE BUCK!

    That may be what you wan to call it. Everybody else calls it consultation.

    Joe Biden is going to do a DAMN THING, he expects the states, etc. to do it.

    No. He's asking for their points of view about what needs to be done. There's no suggestion that they would be required to do it, and it wouldn't make sense to expect them to set up a nation-wide system on their own.

    Don't you GET THE POINT? Joe Biden and the rest of the Feds have NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING!

    But they do have a duty to proposed legislation to Congress that would have the power to make real changes.

    Conclusion: Joe Biden HAS NO PLAN, NEVER HAD A PLAN, AND HAS NO PLAN TO GET A PLAN!!!!

    A more accurate conclusion is that Gnatguy hasn't got clue, never had a clue and imagines that Biden's administration is just as clueless as he is. If you were as dim as Gnatguy, it probably would be difficult to appreciate that 95% of the
    population can think more clearly than Gnatguy can. That may be 99% or more.

    Gnatguy is remarkably stupid, but he also suffers from excess gullibility which means that he believes Donald Trump's lying propaganda.
    <snipped complaints about typos>

    Bill couldn't describe a plan, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    Expanding the transmission network by 60% isn't replacing it, but supplementing it. You might get more capacity by running the existing network at a higher voltage, which would required replacing existing structures, but that's a choice. The real
    problem s that renewable energy is generated in places where you wouldn't put a coal fired generating plant, so you have to add transmission links to service the new generators.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/USA_electricity_production.svg

    The US expanded its transmission network roughly this fast between 1950 and 2000. It should be able to do it again.

    No, this IS NOT a plan.

    Not one that you could understand. Since Gnatguy can't understand how dim he is, he does tend to assume that other people are just as stupid as he is.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo Bill, you sound like a broken record, and you are old enough to know what that means. A plan is a DETAILED roadmap on how the goals will be achieved; this abortion talks about "engaging and collaborating" - absolutely NO SPECIFICS. It would be
    like your boss asking for a plan for developing a new instrument and you replied that you would "engage and collaborate" with strangers.

    Bottom line: this is NO PLAN WHATSOEVER!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Thu Aug 18 20:37:03 2022
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:07:01 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Bill couldn't describe a plan, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    Expanding the transmission network by 60% isn't replacing it, but supplementing it. You might get more capacity by running the existing network at a higher voltage, which would required replacing existing structures, but that's a choice. The real
    problem is that renewable energy is generated in places where you wouldn't put a coal fired generating plant, so you have to add transmission links to service the new generators.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/USA_electricity_production.svg

    The US expanded its transmission network roughly this fast between 1950 and 2000. It should be able to do it again.

    No, this IS NOT a plan.

    Not one that you could understand. Since Gnatguy can't understand how dim he is, he does tend to assume that other people are just as stupid as he is.

    Hey Bill, you sound like a broken record, and you are old enough to know what that means. A plan is a DETAILED roadmap on how the goals will be achieved;

    That's what you eventually have to come up with. You do have to get pretty specific about what the goals are before you can start working out - in detail - how you are going to achieve them. I've done enough project planning to know how the plan changes
    as you flesh it out.

    this abortion talks about "engaging and collaborating" - absolutely NO SPECIFICS. It would be like your boss asking for a plan for developing a new instrument and you replied that you would "engage and collaborate" with strangers.

    Nobody would develop a new instrument until they had "engaged and collaborated" with the potential customers who were likely to buy it.

    Bottom line: this is NO PLAN WHATSOEVER!

    Nothing that Gnatguy can comprehend to be any kind of plan. He clearly hasn't ever done any kind of project planning. I do seem to spend a lot of time reminding Gnatguy that he doesn't know what he is talking about. He might look at John Larkin's thought'
    s about developing a DDS-based new trigger source to cover the frequencies between 15MHz and 1 Hz with milli-Herz resolution. Milli-Herz at 15MHz isn't going to be attainable, but it takes a while to prune out this kind of stuff, and if you start
    development before you've done that pruning you can waste a lot of time

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Thu Aug 18 22:13:52 2022
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:01:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 2:44:08 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 8:37:07 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:07:01 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Bill couldn't describe a plan, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    Expanding the transmission network by 60% isn't replacing it, but supplementing it. You might get more capacity by running the existing network at a higher voltage, which would required replacing existing structures, but that's a choice. The
    real problem is that renewable energy is generated in places where you wouldn't put a coal fired generating plant, so you have to add transmission links to service the new generators.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/USA_electricity_production.svg

    The US expanded its transmission network roughly this fast between 1950 and 2000. It should be able to do it again.

    No, this IS NOT a plan.

    Not one that you could understand. Since Gnatguy can't understand how dim he is, he does tend to assume that other people are just as stupid as he is.

    Hey Bill, you sound like a broken record, and you are old enough to know what that means. A plan is a DETAILED roadmap on how the goals will be achieved;

    That's what you eventually have to come up with. You do have to get pretty specific about what the goals are before you can start working out - in detail - how you are going to achieve them. I've done enough project planning to know how the plan
    changes as you flesh it out.

    this abortion talks about "engaging and collaborating" - absolutely NO SPECIFICS. It would be like your boss asking for a plan for developing a new instrument and you replied that you would "engage and collaborate" with strangers.

    Nobody would develop a new instrument until they had "engaged and collaborated" with the potential customers who were likely to buy it.

    Bottom line: this is NO PLAN WHATSOEVER!

    Nothing that Gnatguy can comprehend to be any kind of plan. He clearly hasn't ever done any kind of project planning. I do seem to spend a lot of time reminding Gnatguy that he doesn't know what he is talking about. He might look at John Larkin's
    thought's about developing a DDS-based new trigger source to cover the frequencies between 15MHz and 1 Hz with milli-Herz resolution. Milli-Herz at 15MHz isn't going to be attainable, but it takes a while to prune out this kind of stuff, and if you start
    development before you've done that pruning you can waste a lot of time

    Hey Bill, TRY AGAIN! You just make excuses for these poor bastards. Tell me, SPECIFICALLY, how this "plan" will replace SIXTY PERCENT of the grid in JUST SEVEN YEARS!!! And don't reply with how I don't "understand" this bullshit.

    But you don't understand. For as start, the aim is to expand the network by 60%, not replace 60% it, and part of the problem is to work out where that extra capacity needs to be put. You can scarcely plan new construction until you have worked out
    where that new construction is going to be put. The bullshit here is all yours.

    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo, explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN? Do you have ANY concept of what it takes to put in a new transmission line?? Obviously not - this one-pager IS NOT A PLAN, you BOZO!!!!! Lyin' Biden is
    merely blowing smoke - he has NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING, and he is not even TRYING to get the authority from Congress. Are you TOO DUMB to understand this?????

    BTW "For as start" is grammatically incorrect.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Thu Aug 18 22:01:14 2022
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 2:44:08 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 8:37:07 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:07:01 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Bill couldn't describe a plan, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    Expanding the transmission network by 60% isn't replacing it, but supplementing it. You might get more capacity by running the existing network at a higher voltage, which would required replacing existing structures, but that's a choice. The real
    problem is that renewable energy is generated in places where you wouldn't put a coal fired generating plant, so you have to add transmission links to service the new generators.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/USA_electricity_production.svg

    The US expanded its transmission network roughly this fast between 1950 and 2000. It should be able to do it again.

    No, this IS NOT a plan.

    Not one that you could understand. Since Gnatguy can't understand how dim he is, he does tend to assume that other people are just as stupid as he is.

    Hey Bill, you sound like a broken record, and you are old enough to know what that means. A plan is a DETAILED roadmap on how the goals will be achieved;

    That's what you eventually have to come up with. You do have to get pretty specific about what the goals are before you can start working out - in detail - how you are going to achieve them. I've done enough project planning to know how the plan
    changes as you flesh it out.

    this abortion talks about "engaging and collaborating" - absolutely NO SPECIFICS. It would be like your boss asking for a plan for developing a new instrument and you replied that you would "engage and collaborate" with strangers.

    Nobody would develop a new instrument until they had "engaged and collaborated" with the potential customers who were likely to buy it.

    Bottom line: this is NO PLAN WHATSOEVER!

    Nothing that Gnatguy can comprehend to be any kind of plan. He clearly hasn't ever done any kind of project planning. I do seem to spend a lot of time reminding Gnatguy that he doesn't know what he is talking about. He might look at John Larkin's
    thought's about developing a DDS-based new trigger source to cover the frequencies between 15MHz and 1 Hz with milli-Herz resolution. Milli-Herz at 15MHz isn't going to be attainable, but it takes a while to prune out this kind of stuff, and if you start
    development before you've done that pruning you can waste a lot of time

    Hey Bill, TRY AGAIN! You just make excuses for these poor bastards. Tell me, SPECIFICALLY, how this "plan" will replace SIXTY PERCENT of the grid in JUST SEVEN YEARS!!! And don't reply with how I don't "understand" this bullshit.

    But you don't understand. For as start, the aim is to expand the network by 60%, not replace 60% it, and part of the problem is to work out where that extra capacity needs to be put. You can scarcely plan new construction until you have worked out where
    that new construction is going to be put. The bullshit here is all yours.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Thu Aug 18 21:44:04 2022
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 8:37:07 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:07:01 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Bill couldn't describe a plan, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    Expanding the transmission network by 60% isn't replacing it, but supplementing it. You might get more capacity by running the existing network at a higher voltage, which would required replacing existing structures, but that's a choice. The real
    problem is that renewable energy is generated in places where you wouldn't put a coal fired generating plant, so you have to add transmission links to service the new generators.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/USA_electricity_production.svg

    The US expanded its transmission network roughly this fast between 1950 and 2000. It should be able to do it again.

    No, this IS NOT a plan.

    Not one that you could understand. Since Gnatguy can't understand how dim he is, he does tend to assume that other people are just as stupid as he is.

    Hey Bill, you sound like a broken record, and you are old enough to know what that means. A plan is a DETAILED roadmap on how the goals will be achieved;

    That's what you eventually have to come up with. You do have to get pretty specific about what the goals are before you can start working out - in detail - how you are going to achieve them. I've done enough project planning to know how the plan
    changes as you flesh it out.
    this abortion talks about "engaging and collaborating" - absolutely NO SPECIFICS. It would be like your boss asking for a plan for developing a new instrument and you replied that you would "engage and collaborate" with strangers.
    Nobody would develop a new instrument until they had "engaged and collaborated" with the potential customers who were likely to buy it.
    Bottom line: this is NO PLAN WHATSOEVER!
    Nothing that Gnatguy can comprehend to be any kind of plan. He clearly hasn't ever done any kind of project planning. I do seem to spend a lot of time reminding Gnatguy that he doesn't know what he is talking about. He might look at John Larkin's
    thought's about developing a DDS-based new trigger source to cover the frequencies between 15MHz and 1 Hz with milli-Herz resolution. Milli-Herz at 15MHz isn't going to be attainable, but it takes a while to prune out this kind of stuff, and if you start
    development before you've done that pruning you can waste a lot of time

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo Bill, TRY AGAIN! You just make excuses for these poor bastards. Tell me, SPECIFICALLY, how this "plan" will replace SIXTY PERCENT of the grid in JUST SEVEN YEARS!!! And don't reply with how I don't "understand" this bullshit.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Thu Aug 18 23:22:01 2022
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    ...explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    That's a contradiction in terms, isn't it? Deeds of great magnitude, over a period of seven years,
    IS a plan, with details to be worked out... presumably, in the next seven years.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to All on Fri Aug 19 09:44:33 2022
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    ...explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    That's a contradiction in terms, isn't it? Deeds of great magnitude, over a period of seven years,
    IS a plan, with details to be worked out... presumably, in the next seven years.

    Here are two questions for the wishful thinkers:
    1. How many miles of electrical transmission wires are there in the U.S.?
    2. How many miles PER DAY is required to add 60% more capacity in SEVEN years? Anybody who thinks there is a plan to do this SHOULD be able to answer these two simple questions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Fri Aug 19 10:05:55 2022
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 9:44:37 AM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    ...explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    That's a contradiction in terms, isn't it? Deeds of great magnitude, over a period of seven years,
    IS a plan, with details to be worked out... presumably, in the next seven years.
    Here are two questions for the wishful thinkers:
    1. How many miles of electrical transmission wires are there in the U.S.?
    2. How many miles PER DAY is required to add 60% more capacity in SEVEN years?
    Anybody who thinks there is a plan to do this SHOULD be able to answer these two simple questions.

    Yes, you should expect that answer, about 19 August, 2029. If anyone cares to address
    the odd question you pose, that is.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Fri Aug 19 20:52:17 2022
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    ...explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    That's a contradiction in terms, isn't it? Deeds of great magnitude, over a period of seven years,
    IS a plan, with details to be worked out... presumably, in the next seven years.
    Here are two questions for the wishful thinkers:
    1. How many miles of electrical transmission wires are there in the U.S.?

    How long is a piece of string? What kind of electrical transmission wires do you wan to count? Does the wire wrapped around the core of an electrical distribution transformers have to be unrolled and its length added to the total?

    You do need to formulate your questions more carefully.

    2. How many miles PER DAY is required to add 60% more capacity in SEVEN years?

    If you just upped the transmission voltage by 60%, none. The existing wires probably aren't well enough insulated to let you do that, but this is enough to make the point that you don't know what you are talking about.

    Anybody who thinks there is a plan to do this SHOULD be able to answer these two simple questions.

    Anybody who expects an answer needs to pose his question more carefully.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Fri Aug 19 20:43:56 2022
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 3:13:56 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:01:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 2:44:08 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 8:37:07 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:07:01 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Bill couldn't describe a plan, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    Expanding the transmission network by 60% isn't replacing it, but supplementing it. You might get more capacity by running the existing network at a higher voltage, which would required replacing existing structures, but that's a choice. The
    real problem is that renewable energy is generated in places where you wouldn't put a coal fired generating plant, so you have to add transmission links to service the new generators.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/USA_electricity_production.svg

    The US expanded its transmission network roughly this fast between 1950 and 2000. It should be able to do it again.

    No, this IS NOT a plan.

    Not one that you could understand. Since Gnatguy can't understand how dim he is, he does tend to assume that other people are just as stupid as he is.

    Hey Bill, you sound like a broken record, and you are old enough to know what that means. A plan is a DETAILED roadmap on how the goals will be achieved;

    That's what you eventually have to come up with. You do have to get pretty specific about what the goals are before you can start working out - in detail - how you are going to achieve them. I've done enough project planning to know how the plan
    changes as you flesh it out.

    this abortion talks about "engaging and collaborating" - absolutely NO SPECIFICS. It would be like your boss asking for a plan for developing a new instrument and you replied that you would "engage and collaborate" with strangers.

    Nobody would develop a new instrument until they had "engaged and collaborated" with the potential customers who were likely to buy it.

    Bottom line: this is NO PLAN WHATSOEVER!

    Nothing that Gnatguy can comprehend to be any kind of plan. He clearly hasn't ever done any kind of project planning. I do seem to spend a lot of time reminding Gnatguy that he doesn't know what he is talking about. He might look at John Larkin's
    thought's about developing a DDS-based new trigger source to cover the frequencies between 15MHz and 1 Hz with milli-Herz resolution. Milli-Herz at 15MHz isn't going to be attainable, but it takes a while to prune out this kind of stuff, and if you start
    development before you've done that pruning you can waste a lot of time

    Hey Bill, TRY AGAIN! You just make excuses for these poor bastards. Tell me, SPECIFICALLY, how this "plan" will replace SIXTY PERCENT of the grid in JUST SEVEN YEARS!!! And don't reply with how I don't "understand" this bullshit.

    But you don't understand. For a start, the aim is to expand the network by 60%, not replace 60% it, and part of the problem is to work out where that extra capacity needs to be put. You can scarcely plan new construction until you have worked out
    where that new construction is going to be put. The bullshit here is all yours.

    Hey Bozo, explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    Who said they haven' t got a plan. Your complaint is that they haven't got a detailed plan, which just reflects you incapacity to understand what needs to be worked out before you can get to detailed planning.

    Do you have ANY concept of what it takes to put in a new transmission line??

    I drive past above-ground transmission lines from time to time, and see the large mechanical structures that support the wires that I can see, and can infer the blocks of concrete that serve as the foundations for each the towers along the line. What
    specialised concepts do i need to add? The high-voltage step-up at the generator end of the line, and step-down gear at the the distribution points?

    Obviously not - this one-pager IS NOT A PLAN, you BOZO!!!!!

    Obviously not. It is a publicity puff about the early stages of developing a plan. You are the kind of idiot that thinks you can churn out a detailed plan to solve a problem before you've worked out the fine details of the problem you need to solve - and
    don't have clue about what it's components would look like, but still think is is worth your while to complain that you can't see that detailed plan, even though it wouldn't mean a thing to you.

    Joe Biden is merely blowing smoke - he has NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING, and he is not even TRYING to get the authority from Congress. Are you TOO DUMB to understand this?????

    I'd have to be pretty dumb to think that the President of the United States didn't have the authority to push for the

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/

    which has just been enacted. You've got to be even dumber not to have noticed that he did managed to get it passed into law.

    It doesn't spell out the work that needs to be done in the kind of fine detail that you imagine to be necessary, but that's reality to for you. Not for you of course, because you've got no access to reality at all. Fox News is a close to it as you ever
    get.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Fri Aug 19 22:09:53 2022
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:44:00 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 3:13:56 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:01:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 2:44:08 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 8:37:07 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:07:01 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Bill couldn't describe a plan, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    Expanding the transmission network by 60% isn't replacing it, but supplementing it. You might get more capacity by running the existing network at a higher voltage, which would required replacing existing structures, but that's a choice.
    The real problem is that renewable energy is generated in places where you wouldn't put a coal fired generating plant, so you have to add transmission links to service the new generators.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/USA_electricity_production.svg

    The US expanded its transmission network roughly this fast between 1950 and 2000. It should be able to do it again.

    No, this IS NOT a plan.

    Not one that you could understand. Since Gnatguy can't understand how dim he is, he does tend to assume that other people are just as stupid as he is.

    Hey Bill, you sound like a broken record, and you are old enough to know what that means. A plan is a DETAILED roadmap on how the goals will be achieved;

    That's what you eventually have to come up with. You do have to get pretty specific about what the goals are before you can start working out - in detail - how you are going to achieve them. I've done enough project planning to know how the
    plan changes as you flesh it out.

    this abortion talks about "engaging and collaborating" - absolutely NO SPECIFICS. It would be like your boss asking for a plan for developing a new instrument and you replied that you would "engage and collaborate" with strangers.

    Nobody would develop a new instrument until they had "engaged and collaborated" with the potential customers who were likely to buy it.

    Bottom line: this is NO PLAN WHATSOEVER!

    Nothing that Gnatguy can comprehend to be any kind of plan. He clearly hasn't ever done any kind of project planning. I do seem to spend a lot of time reminding Gnatguy that he doesn't know what he is talking about. He might look at John Larkin'
    s thought's about developing a DDS-based new trigger source to cover the frequencies between 15MHz and 1 Hz with milli-Herz resolution. Milli-Herz at 15MHz isn't going to be attainable, but it takes a while to prune out this kind of stuff, and if you
    start development before you've done that pruning you can waste a lot of time

    Hey Bill, TRY AGAIN! You just make excuses for these poor bastards. Tell me, SPECIFICALLY, how this "plan" will replace SIXTY PERCENT of the grid in JUST SEVEN YEARS!!! And don't reply with how I don't "understand" this bullshit.

    But you don't understand. For a start, the aim is to expand the network by 60%, not replace 60% it, and part of the problem is to work out where that extra capacity needs to be put. You can scarcely plan new construction until you have worked out
    where that new construction is going to be put. The bullshit here is all yours.

    Hey Bozo, explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?
    Who said they haven' t got a plan. Your complaint is that they haven't got a detailed plan, which just reflects you incapacity to understand what needs to be worked out before you can get to detailed planning.
    Do you have ANY concept of what it takes to put in a new transmission line??
    I drive past above-ground transmission lines from time to time, and see the large mechanical structures that support the wires that I can see, and can infer the blocks of concrete that serve as the foundations for each the towers along the line. What
    specialised concepts do i need to add? The high-voltage step-up at the generator end of the line, and step-down gear at the the distribution points?

    Well, for starters, how about:
    1. An environmental impact statement
    2. Hearings and written statements on this
    3. Rewriting of the environmental impact statement
    4. Lawsuits over the impact statement
    5. More hearings
    6. More lawsuits
    7. Preliminary injuction stopping work
    8. More hearings
    9. Legislation to address the lawsuits
    10. Etc., etc., etc. (no work is ever started)
    Obviously not - this one-pager IS NOT A PLAN, you BOZO!!!!!
    Obviously not. It is a publicity puff about the early stages of developing a plan. You are the kind of idiot that thinks you can churn out a detailed plan to solve a problem before you've worked out the fine details of the problem you need to solve -
    and don't have clue about what it's components would look like, but still think is is worth your while to complain that you can't see that detailed plan, even though it wouldn't mean a thing to you.

    HA HA HA!!!! You AGREE this is NOT A PLAN! Well, Bozo, SHOW ME THE PLAN, THEN!


    Joe Biden is merely blowing smoke - he has NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING, and he is not even TRYING to get the authority from Congress. Are you TOO DUMB to understand this?????

    I'd have to be pretty dumb to think that the President of the United States didn't have the authority to push for the

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/


    which has just been enacted. You've got to be even dumber not to have noticed that he did managed to get it passed into law.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! Well then, You PRETTY DAMN DUMB because he DOESN'T!!!!!!!! In the USA that authority comes from the CONGRESS by way of legislation. If you think he has such authority then YOU can point me to the specific LAW that grants him that
    authority, but YOU CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Infrastructure Bill you quoted only authorizes $20B, which is a DROP IN THE BUCKET for modernization of the grid. It is just a token effort that rubes like you will think is actual action.

    It doesn't spell out the work that needs to be done in the kind of fine detail that you imagine to be necessary, but that's reality to for you. Not for you of course, because you've got no access to reality at all. Fox News is a close to it as you ever
    get.

    "Fine detail?" There is NO DETAIL WHATSOEVER!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Aug 20 01:18:09 2022
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 3:09:57 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:44:00 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 3:13:56 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:01:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 2:44:08 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 8:37:07 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:07:01 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Bill couldn't describe a plan, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    Expanding the transmission network by 60% isn't replacing it, but supplementing it. You might get more capacity by running the existing network at a higher voltage, which would required replacing existing structures, but that's a choice.
    The real problem is that renewable energy is generated in places where you wouldn't put a coal fired generating plant, so you have to add transmission links to service the new generators.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/USA_electricity_production.svg

    The US expanded its transmission network roughly this fast between 1950 and 2000. It should be able to do it again.

    No, this IS NOT a plan.

    Not one that you could understand. Since Gnatguy can't understand how dim he is, he does tend to assume that other people are just as stupid as he is.

    Hey Bill, you sound like a broken record, and you are old enough to know what that means. A plan is a DETAILED roadmap on how the goals will be achieved;

    That's what you eventually have to come up with. You do have to get pretty specific about what the goals are before you can start working out - in detail - how you are going to achieve them. I've done enough project planning to know how the
    plan changes as you flesh it out.

    this abortion talks about "engaging and collaborating" - absolutely NO SPECIFICS. It would be like your boss asking for a plan for developing a new instrument and you replied that you would "engage and collaborate" with strangers.

    Nobody would develop a new instrument until they had "engaged and collaborated" with the potential customers who were likely to buy it.

    Bottom line: this is NO PLAN WHATSOEVER!

    Nothing that Gnatguy can comprehend to be any kind of plan. He clearly hasn't ever done any kind of project planning. I do seem to spend a lot of time reminding Gnatguy that he doesn't know what he is talking about. He might look at John
    Larkin's thought's about developing a DDS-based new trigger source to cover the frequencies between 15MHz and 1 Hz with milli-Herz resolution. Milli-Herz at 15MHz isn't going to be attainable, but it takes a while to prune out this kind of stuff, and if
    you start development before you've done that pruning you can waste a lot of time

    Hey Bill, TRY AGAIN! You just make excuses for these poor bastards. Tell me, SPECIFICALLY, how this "plan" will replace SIXTY PERCENT of the grid in JUST SEVEN YEARS!!! And don't reply with how I don't "understand" this bullshit.

    But you don't understand. For a start, the aim is to expand the network by 60%, not replace 60% it, and part of the problem is to work out where that extra capacity needs to be put. You can scarcely plan new construction until you have worked out
    where that new construction is going to be put. The bullshit here is all yours.

    Hey Bozo, explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    Who said they haven' t got a plan. Your complaint is that they haven't got a detailed plan, which just reflects you incapacity to understand what needs to be worked out before you can get to detailed planning.

    Do you have ANY concept of what it takes to put in a new transmission line??

    I drive past above-ground transmission lines from time to time, and see the large mechanical structures that support the wires that I can see, and can infer the blocks of concrete that serve as the foundations for each the towers along the line. What
    specialised concepts do i need to add? The high-voltage step-up at the generator end of the line, and step-down gear at the the distribution points?

    Well, for starters, how about:
    1. An environmental impact statement

    You can see an above-ground transmission line for miles. Obviously there's going to be an environmental statement.

    2. Hearings and written statements on this

    More of the same.

    3. Rewriting of the environmental impact statement

    And even more

    4. Lawsuits over the impact statement

    You want a plan for that?

    5. More hearings
    6. More lawsuits
    7. Preliminary injunction stopping work
    8. More hearings
    9. Legislation to address the lawsuits
    10. Etc., etc., etc. (no work is ever started)
    Obviously not - this one-pager IS NOT A PLAN, you BOZO!!!!!

    And anybody who tried to plan that kind of time-wasting nonsense would be out of their minds. You don't seem to have mind to be out of.

    Transmission lines keep on getting built, so presumably the people that do it keep a stable of lawyers to keep that kind of nonsense out of their hair.

    That's not planning - more pest control, and clearly you'd love to be one of the pests.

    Obviously not. It is a publicity puff about the early stages of developing a plan. You are the kind of idiot that thinks you can churn out a detailed plan to solve a problem before you've worked out the fine details of the problem you need to solve -
    and don't have clue about what it's components would look like, but still think is is worth your while to complain that you can't see that detailed plan, even though it wouldn't mean a thing to you.

    HA HA HA!!!! You AGREE this is NOT A PLAN! Well, Bozo, SHOW ME THE PLAN, THEN!

    I just did

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    it's not detailed enough to satisfy you, but Biden is a Democrat, so it never could be. And you do have unrealistic ideas about how detailed a plan could be at this stage.

    Joe Biden is merely blowing smoke - he has NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING, and he is not even TRYING to get the authority from Congress. Are you TOO DUMB to understand this?????

    I'd have to be pretty dumb to think that the President of the United States didn't have the authority to push for the

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/

    which has just been enacted. You've got to be even dumber not to have noticed that he did managed to get it passed into law.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! Well then, You PRETTY DAMN DUMB because he DOESN'T!!!!!!!! In the USA that authority comes from the CONGRESS by way of legislation.

    That's what he has just got.

    If you think he has such authority then YOU can point me to the specific LAW that grants him that authority, but YOU CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Infrastructure Bill you quoted only authorizes $20B, which is a DROP IN THE BUCKET for modernization of the
    grid.

    So you've got access to a detailed plan which tells you how much it will cost?

    It is just a token effort that rubes like you will think is actual action.

    It doesn't spell out the work that needs to be done in the kind of fine detail that you imagine to be necessary, but that's reality to for you. Not for you of course, because you've got no access to reality at all. Fox News is a close to it as you
    ever get.

    "Fine detail?" There is NO DETAIL WHATSOEVER!

    None that you can understand. Which scarcely needs to be said.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sat Aug 20 15:06:35 2022
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    ...explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    That's a contradiction in terms, isn't it? Deeds of great magnitude, over a period of seven years,
    IS a plan, with details to be worked out... presumably, in the next seven years.
    Here are two questions for the wishful thinkers:
    1. How many miles of electrical transmission wires are there in the U.S.?
    How long is a piece of string? What kind of electrical transmission wires do you wan to count? Does the wire wrapped around the core of an electrical distribution transformers have to be unrolled and its length added to the total?

    The answer, Bozo, is 700,000 miles (go to EIA.gov for the answer). No counting required (which is good for you because you can't count).


    You do need to formulate your questions more carefully.

    No, the question was perfectly formulated.

    2. How many miles PER DAY is required to add 60% more capacity in SEVEN years?
    If you just upped the transmission voltage by 60%, none. The existing wires probably aren't well enough insulated to let you do that, but this is enough to make the point that you don't know what you are talking about.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that stupid, Bozo? Transmission lines are designed for a specific voltage which can't be changed. The answer is 164 MILES PER DAY! Do you see this activity taking place? I don't.

    Anybody who thinks there is a plan to do this SHOULD be able to answer these two simple questions.
    Anybody who expects an answer needs to pose his question more carefully.

    Not for people that know how to THINK!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sat Aug 20 15:41:34 2022
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 1:18:14 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 3:09:57 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:44:00 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 3:13:56 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:01:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 2:44:08 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 8:37:07 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:07:01 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Bill couldn't describe a plan, so why do I expect him to understand what it takes to replace SIXTY PERCENT of the electrical grid in SEVEN YEARS???

    Expanding the transmission network by 60% isn't replacing it, but supplementing it. You might get more capacity by running the existing network at a higher voltage, which would required replacing existing structures, but that's a choice.
    The real problem is that renewable energy is generated in places where you wouldn't put a coal fired generating plant, so you have to add transmission links to service the new generators.

    https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/45/USA_electricity_production.svg

    The US expanded its transmission network roughly this fast between 1950 and 2000. It should be able to do it again.

    No, this IS NOT a plan.

    Not one that you could understand. Since Gnatguy can't understand how dim he is, he does tend to assume that other people are just as stupid as he is.

    Hey Bill, you sound like a broken record, and you are old enough to know what that means. A plan is a DETAILED roadmap on how the goals will be achieved;

    That's what you eventually have to come up with. You do have to get pretty specific about what the goals are before you can start working out - in detail - how you are going to achieve them. I've done enough project planning to know how the
    plan changes as you flesh it out.

    this abortion talks about "engaging and collaborating" - absolutely NO SPECIFICS. It would be like your boss asking for a plan for developing a new instrument and you replied that you would "engage and collaborate" with strangers.

    Nobody would develop a new instrument until they had "engaged and collaborated" with the potential customers who were likely to buy it.

    Bottom line: this is NO PLAN WHATSOEVER!

    Nothing that Gnatguy can comprehend to be any kind of plan. He clearly hasn't ever done any kind of project planning. I do seem to spend a lot of time reminding Gnatguy that he doesn't know what he is talking about. He might look at John
    Larkin's thought's about developing a DDS-based new trigger source to cover the frequencies between 15MHz and 1 Hz with milli-Herz resolution. Milli-Herz at 15MHz isn't going to be attainable, but it takes a while to prune out this kind of stuff, and if
    you start development before you've done that pruning you can waste a lot of time

    Hey Bill, TRY AGAIN! You just make excuses for these poor bastards. Tell me, SPECIFICALLY, how this "plan" will replace SIXTY PERCENT of the grid in JUST SEVEN YEARS!!! And don't reply with how I don't "understand" this bullshit.

    But you don't understand. For a start, the aim is to expand the network by 60%, not replace 60% it, and part of the problem is to work out where that extra capacity needs to be put. You can scarcely plan new construction until you have worked
    out where that new construction is going to be put. The bullshit here is all yours.

    Hey Bozo, explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    Who said they haven' t got a plan. Your complaint is that they haven't got a detailed plan, which just reflects you incapacity to understand what needs to be worked out before you can get to detailed planning.

    Do you have ANY concept of what it takes to put in a new transmission line??

    I drive past above-ground transmission lines from time to time, and see the large mechanical structures that support the wires that I can see, and can infer the blocks of concrete that serve as the foundations for each the towers along the line.
    What specialised concepts do i need to add? The high-voltage step-up at the generator end of the line, and step-down gear at the the distribution points?

    Well, for starters, how about:
    1. An environmental impact statement
    You can see an above-ground transmission line for miles. Obviously there's going to be an environmental statement.
    2. Hearings and written statements on this
    More of the same.
    3. Rewriting of the environmental impact statement
    And even more
    4. Lawsuits over the impact statement
    You want a plan for that?
    5. More hearings
    6. More lawsuits
    7. Preliminary injunction stopping work
    8. More hearings
    9. Legislation to address the lawsuits
    10. Etc., etc., etc. (no work is ever started)
    Obviously not - this one-pager IS NOT A PLAN, you BOZO!!!!!
    And anybody who tried to plan that kind of time-wasting nonsense would be out of their minds. You don't seem to have mind to be out of.

    That "time-wasting nonsense" is required by LAW, Bozo, which Republicans are trying to change, but need to control Congress and the White House to do that. The gas pipeline that Manchin sold his soul for was started SEVEN YEARS AGO and still is AT LEAST
    a year away from completion:
    https://www.mountainvalleypipeline.info/overview/
    This pipeline has been delayed by numerous lawsuits.


    Transmission lines keep on getting built, so presumably the people that do it keep a stable of lawyers to keep that kind of nonsense out of their hair.

    Not at a pace to expand the grid by 60% in 7 years. They would be lucky to do ONE TENTH of that.


    That's not planning - more pest control, and clearly you'd love to be one of the pests.

    Well, you are a pest in need of controlling.

    Obviously not. It is a publicity puff about the early stages of developing a plan. You are the kind of idiot that thinks you can churn out a detailed plan to solve a problem before you've worked out the fine details of the problem you need to solve
    - and don't have clue about what it's components would look like, but still think is is worth your while to complain that you can't see that detailed plan, even though it wouldn't mean a thing to you.

    HA HA HA!!!! You AGREE this is NOT A PLAN! Well, Bozo, SHOW ME THE PLAN, THEN!
    I just did

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    it's not detailed enough to satisfy you, but Biden is a Democrat, so it never could be. And you do have unrealistic ideas about how detailed a plan could be at this stage.

    As they say, the devil IS in the details - wishful thinking is for libtards like you.

    Joe Biden is merely blowing smoke - he has NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING, and he is not even TRYING to get the authority from Congress. Are you TOO DUMB to understand this?????

    I'd have to be pretty dumb to think that the President of the United States didn't have the authority to push for the

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/

    which has just been enacted. You've got to be even dumber not to have noticed that he did managed to get it passed into law.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! Well then, You PRETTY DAMN DUMB because he DOESN'T!!!!!!!! In the USA that authority comes from the CONGRESS by way of legislation.
    That's what he has just got.

    A drop in the bucket, you fool. Nothing even close to what is needed to do what Lyin' Biden claims he wants to do, which will cost TRILLIONS!

    If you think he has such authority then YOU can point me to the specific LAW that grants him that authority, but YOU CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Infrastructure Bill you quoted only authorizes $20B, which is a DROP IN THE BUCKET for modernization of
    the grid.
    So you've got access to a detailed plan which tells you how much it will cost?

    I have already posted TWO such plans, Bozo

    It is just a token effort that rubes like you will think is actual action.

    It doesn't spell out the work that needs to be done in the kind of fine detail that you imagine to be necessary, but that's reality to for you. Not for you of course, because you've got no access to reality at all. Fox News is a close to it as you
    ever get.

    "Fine detail?" There is NO DETAIL WHATSOEVER!
    None that you can understand. Which scarcely needs to be said.

    You just mean NONE, Bozo. If you could find said plan you would POST IT, but you CAN'T!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Aug 20 22:08:19 2022
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:41:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 1:18:14 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 3:09:57 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:44:00 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 3:13:56 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:01:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 2:44:08 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 8:37:07 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:07:01 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    But you don't understand. For a start, the aim is to expand the network by 60%, not replace 60% it, and part of the problem is to work out where that extra capacity needs to be put. You can scarcely plan new construction until you have worked
    out where that new construction is going to be put. The bullshit here is all yours.

    Hey Bozo, explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    Who said they haven' t got a plan. Your complaint is that they haven't got a detailed plan, which just reflects you incapacity to understand what needs to be worked out before you can get to detailed planning.

    Do you have ANY concept of what it takes to put in a new transmission line??

    I drive past above-ground transmission lines from time to time, and see the large mechanical structures that support the wires that I can see, and can infer the blocks of concrete that serve as the foundations for each the towers along the line.
    What specialised concepts do i need to add? The high-voltage step-up at the generator end of the line, and step-down gear at the the distribution points?

    Well, for starters, how about:
    1. An environmental impact statement
    You can see an above-ground transmission line for miles. Obviously there's going to be an environmental statement.
    2. Hearings and written statements on this
    More of the same.
    3. Rewriting of the environmental impact statement
    And even more
    4. Lawsuits over the impact statement
    You want a plan for that?
    5. More hearings
    6. More lawsuits
    7. Preliminary injunction stopping work
    8. More hearings
    9. Legislation to address the lawsuits
    10. Etc., etc., etc. (no work is ever started)
    Obviously not - this one-pager IS NOT A PLAN, you BOZO!!!!!
    And anybody who tried to plan that kind of time-wasting nonsense would be out of their minds. You don't seem to have mind to be out of.
    That "time-wasting nonsense" is required by LAW, Bozo, which Republicans are trying to change, but need to control Congress and the White House to do that. The gas pipeline that Manchin sold his soul for was started SEVEN YEARS AGO and still is AT
    LEAST a year away from completion:
    https://www.mountainvalleypipeline.info/overview/
    This pipeline has been delayed by numerous lawsuits.

    Transmission lines keep on getting built, so presumably the people that do it keep a stable of lawyers to keep that kind of nonsense out of their hair.
    Not at a pace to expand the grid by 60% in 7 years. They would be lucky to do ONE TENTH of that.

    That's not planning - more pest control, and clearly you'd love to be one of the pests.

    Well, you are a pest in need of controlling.

    That does seem to be your point of view.

    Obviously not. It is a publicity puff about the early stages of developing a plan. You are the kind of idiot that thinks you can churn out a detailed plan to solve a problem before you've worked out the fine details of the problem you need to
    solve - and don't have clue about what it's components would look like, but still think is is worth your while to complain that you can't see that detailed plan, even though it wouldn't mean a thing to you.

    HA HA HA!!!! You AGREE this is NOT A PLAN! Well, Bozo, SHOW ME THE PLAN, THEN!
    I just did

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    it's not detailed enough to satisfy you, but Biden is a Democrat, so it never could be. And you do have unrealistic ideas about how detailed a plan could be at this stage.

    As they say, the devil IS in the details - wishful thinking is for libtards like you.

    But it takes time to work out those details. You wishful thinking is that it can be done overnight.

    Joe Biden is merely blowing smoke - he has NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING, and he is not even TRYING to get the authority from Congress. Are you TOO DUMB to understand this?????

    I'd have to be pretty dumb to think that the President of the United States didn't have the authority to push for the

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/

    which has just been enacted. You've got to be even dumber not to have noticed that he did managed to get it passed into law.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! Well then, You PRETTY DAMN DUMB because he DOESN'T!!!!!!!! In the USA that authority comes from the CONGRESS by way of legislation.

    That's what he has just got.

    A drop in the bucket, you fool. Nothing even close to what is needed to do what Lyin' Biden claims he wants to do, which will cost TRILLIONS!

    In your ever-so expert opinion.

    If you think he has such authority then YOU can point me to the specific LAW that grants him that authority, but YOU CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Infrastructure Bill you quoted only authorizes $20B, which is a DROP IN THE BUCKET for modernization of
    the grid.

    So you've got access to a detailed plan which tells you how much it will cost?

    I have already posted TWO such plans, Bozo.

    You may think you have, but you are a deluded idiot. Post a link to either of them and we might take you seriously, though you are more likely to post a link to something completely irrelevant, and not have clue why it is relevant.

    It is just a token effort that rubes like you will think is actual action.

    It doesn't spell out the work that needs to be done in the kind of fine detail that you imagine to be necessary, but that's reality to for you. Not for you of course, because you've got no access to reality at all. Fox News is a close to it as
    you ever get.

    "Fine detail?" There is NO DETAIL WHATSOEVER!

    None that you can understand. Which scarcely needs to be said.

    You just mean NONE.

    That is what you like to believe.

    If you could find said plan you would POST IT, but you CAN'T!

    You want me to post a link to a detailed plan that can't possibly exist right now, then complain when I point out that you are asking for the impossible.
    Rhetorically this may work, but you still look like a idiot for trying it on. Looking like a idiot does seem to be your aim.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sat Aug 20 21:55:37 2022
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    ...explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    That's a contradiction in terms, isn't it? Deeds of great magnitude, over a period of seven years,
    IS a plan, with details to be worked out... presumably, in the next seven years.
    Here are two questions for the wishful thinkers:
    1. How many miles of electrical transmission wires are there in the U.S.?
    How long is a piece of string? What kind of electrical transmission wires do you wan to count? Does the wire wrapped around the core of an electrical distribution transformers have to be unrolled and its length added to the total?

    The answer, Bozo, is 700,000 miles (go to EIA.gov for the answer). No counting required (which is good for you because you can't count).

    But you don't provide the link. Your capacity to makes sense of what you think you have found isn't impressive, so I'm not going to bother to look for it.

    You do need to formulate your questions more carefully.

    No, the question was perfectly formulated.

    So you don't understand why it wasn't. No surprise there.

    2. How many miles PER DAY is required to add 60% more capacity in SEVEN years?

    If you just upped the transmission voltage by 60%, none. The existing wires probably aren't well enough insulated to let you do that, but this is enough to make the point that you don't know what you are talking about.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that stupid, Bozo? Transmission lines are designed for a specific voltage which can't be changed.

    They are designed for a specific maximum voltage. Switching from AC to DC transmission allows you to send quite a bit more current down the same wire.

    The answer is 164 MILES PER DAY! Do you see this activity taking place? I don't.

    It happened from about 1950 to 2000 when US electricity generation levelled off - probably because you started off-shoring most of your manufacturing to China.

    It may be that you have lost the capacity to build stuff for yourselves, but you and Trump probably aren't representative.

    Anybody who thinks there is a plan to do this SHOULD be able to answer these two simple questions.

    Anybody who expects an answer needs to pose his question more carefully.

    Not for people that know how to THINK!

    And you imagine that you are one of them.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sun Aug 21 15:42:24 2022
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    ...explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    That's a contradiction in terms, isn't it? Deeds of great magnitude, over a period of seven years,
    IS a plan, with details to be worked out... presumably, in the next seven years.
    Here are two questions for the wishful thinkers:
    1. How many miles of electrical transmission wires are there in the U.S.?
    How long is a piece of string? What kind of electrical transmission wires do you wan to count? Does the wire wrapped around the core of an electrical distribution transformers have to be unrolled and its length added to the total?

    The answer, Bozo, is 700,000 miles (go to EIA.gov for the answer). No counting required (which is good for you because you can't count).
    But you don't provide the link. Your capacity to makes sense of what you think you have found isn't impressive, so I'm not going to bother to look for it.
    You do need to formulate your questions more carefully.

    No, the question was perfectly formulated.
    So you don't understand why it wasn't. No surprise there.
    2. How many miles PER DAY is required to add 60% more capacity in SEVEN years?

    If you just upped the transmission voltage by 60%, none. The existing wires probably aren't well enough insulated to let you do that, but this is enough to make the point that you don't know what you are talking about.

    LOL! Are you REALLY that stupid, Bozo? Transmission lines are designed for a specific voltage which can't be changed.
    They are designed for a specific maximum voltage. Switching from AC to DC transmission allows you to send quite a bit more current down the same wire.
    The answer is 164 MILES PER DAY! Do you see this activity taking place? I don't.
    It happened from about 1950 to 2000 when US electricity generation levelled off - probably because you started off-shoring most of your manufacturing to China.

    Then you ADMIT it is not happening TODAY, which means there IS NO PLAN to make it happen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sun Aug 21 15:40:27 2022
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 10:08:23 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:41:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 1:18:14 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 3:09:57 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:44:00 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 3:13:56 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:01:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 2:44:08 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 8:37:07 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 10:07:01 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 9:58:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 1:00:43 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 7:54:56 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 12:10:38 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 5:05:23 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 17, 2022 at 3:21:55 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 15, 2022 at 10:20:08 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 16, 2022 at 6:47:55 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 7:22:44 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 10:49:30 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 12:20:16 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 12, 2022 at 1:17:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:30:55 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 11, 2022 at 12:49:26 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 5:53:51 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 10, 2022 at 4:42:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 8:28:18 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 9, 2022 at 12:36:51 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 11:37:12 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 3:18:35 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 6:52:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 8, 2022 at 11:03:46 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 7, 2022 at 3:14:35 PM UTC-7, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/07/2022 03:25 PM, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    But you don't understand. For a start, the aim is to expand the network by 60%, not replace 60% it, and part of the problem is to work out where that extra capacity needs to be put. You can scarcely plan new construction until you have
    worked out where that new construction is going to be put. The bullshit here is all yours.

    Hey Bozo, explain how they are going to do ANYTHING of this magnitude in SEVEN YEARS W/O a PLAN?

    Who said they haven' t got a plan. Your complaint is that they haven't got a detailed plan, which just reflects you incapacity to understand what needs to be worked out before you can get to detailed planning.

    Do you have ANY concept of what it takes to put in a new transmission line??

    I drive past above-ground transmission lines from time to time, and see the large mechanical structures that support the wires that I can see, and can infer the blocks of concrete that serve as the foundations for each the towers along the line.
    What specialised concepts do i need to add? The high-voltage step-up at the generator end of the line, and step-down gear at the the distribution points?

    Well, for starters, how about:
    1. An environmental impact statement
    You can see an above-ground transmission line for miles. Obviously there's going to be an environmental statement.
    2. Hearings and written statements on this
    More of the same.
    3. Rewriting of the environmental impact statement
    And even more
    4. Lawsuits over the impact statement
    You want a plan for that?
    5. More hearings
    6. More lawsuits
    7. Preliminary injunction stopping work
    8. More hearings
    9. Legislation to address the lawsuits
    10. Etc., etc., etc. (no work is ever started)
    Obviously not - this one-pager IS NOT A PLAN, you BOZO!!!!!
    And anybody who tried to plan that kind of time-wasting nonsense would be out of their minds. You don't seem to have mind to be out of.
    That "time-wasting nonsense" is required by LAW, Bozo, which Republicans are trying to change, but need to control Congress and the White House to do that. The gas pipeline that Manchin sold his soul for was started SEVEN YEARS AGO and still is AT
    LEAST a year away from completion:
    https://www.mountainvalleypipeline.info/overview/
    This pipeline has been delayed by numerous lawsuits.

    Transmission lines keep on getting built, so presumably the people that do it keep a stable of lawyers to keep that kind of nonsense out of their hair.
    Not at a pace to expand the grid by 60% in 7 years. They would be lucky to do ONE TENTH of that.

    That's not planning - more pest control, and clearly you'd love to be one of the pests.

    Well, you are a pest in need of controlling.
    That does seem to be your point of view.
    Obviously not. It is a publicity puff about the early stages of developing a plan. You are the kind of idiot that thinks you can churn out a detailed plan to solve a problem before you've worked out the fine details of the problem you need to
    solve - and don't have clue about what it's components would look like, but still think is is worth your while to complain that you can't see that detailed plan, even though it wouldn't mean a thing to you.

    HA HA HA!!!! You AGREE this is NOT A PLAN! Well, Bozo, SHOW ME THE PLAN, THEN!
    I just did

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    it's not detailed enough to satisfy you, but Biden is a Democrat, so it never could be. And you do have unrealistic ideas about how detailed a plan could be at this stage.

    As they say, the devil IS in the details - wishful thinking is for libtards like you.
    But it takes time to work out those details. You wishful thinking is that it can be done overnight.
    Joe Biden is merely blowing smoke - he has NO AUTHORITY to do ANYTHING, and he is not even TRYING to get the authority from Congress. Are you TOO DUMB to understand this?????

    I'd have to be pretty dumb to think that the President of the United States didn't have the authority to push for the

    https://www.whitehouse.gov/bipartisan-infrastructure-law/

    which has just been enacted. You've got to be even dumber not to have noticed that he did managed to get it passed into law.

    HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!!! Well then, You PRETTY DAMN DUMB because he DOESN'T!!!!!!!! In the USA that authority comes from the CONGRESS by way of legislation.

    That's what he has just got.

    A drop in the bucket, you fool. Nothing even close to what is needed to do what Lyin' Biden claims he wants to do, which will cost TRILLIONS!
    In your ever-so expert opinion.
    If you think he has such authority then YOU can point me to the specific LAW that grants him that authority, but YOU CAN'T!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The Infrastructure Bill you quoted only authorizes $20B, which is a DROP IN THE BUCKET for modernization
    of the grid.

    So you've got access to a detailed plan which tells you how much it will cost?

    I have already posted TWO such plans, Bozo.

    You may think you have, but you are a deluded idiot. Post a link to either of them and we might take you seriously, though you are more likely to post a link to something completely irrelevant, and not have clue why it is relevant.
    It is just a token effort that rubes like you will think is actual action.

    It doesn't spell out the work that needs to be done in the kind of fine detail that you imagine to be necessary, but that's reality to for you. Not for you of course, because you've got no access to reality at all. Fox News is a close to it as
    you ever get.

    "Fine detail?" There is NO DETAIL WHATSOEVER!

    None that you can understand. Which scarcely needs to be said.

    You just mean NONE.

    That is what you like to believe.
    If you could find said plan you would POST IT, but you CAN'T!
    You want me to post a link to a detailed plan that can't possibly exist right now, then complain when I point out that you are asking for the impossible.
    Rhetorically this may work, but you still look like a idiot for trying it on. Looking like a idiot does seem to be your aim.

    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo Bill, you keep saying there IS a plan, but keep on coming up with excuses why you don't post it. Then, you say this token plan IS their plan, but it is so WOEFULLY underfunded that is has ZERO chance of accomplishing Lyin' Biden's goals.

    Bottom Line: WHERE is Lyin' Biden's plan to expand the electrical grid by SIXTY PERCENT in SEVEN YEARS????

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Aug 21 17:13:09 2022
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Then you ADMIT it is not happening TODAY, which means there IS NO PLAN to make it happen.

    I'm sure that the US electricity grid is being worked on today. The nature of that work won't have much to do with what is going to happen over the next six years, as it is adapted to dealing with more electricity generated from renewable sources (which
    haven't been built yet, at locations which have yet to be worked out) and distributed to an increasing number of electric vehicles (which haven't been bought yet).

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    does talk about the process of working out how the capacity of electricity distribution grid is going to have to be expanded - by about 60% - to cope with this.

    This about as much of a plan as is worth making at the moment. Since you are an idiot, you think you can demand to see a plan that shows the fine details of what's going to be done six years in the future, and get upset when you can't find one.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sun Aug 21 22:04:33 2022
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:
    <snip>
    Then you ADMIT it is not happening TODAY, which means there IS NO PLAN to make it happen.
    I'm sure that the US electricity grid is being worked on today. The nature of that work won't have much to do with what is going to happen over the next six years, as it is adapted to dealing with more electricity generated from renewable sources (
    which haven't been built yet, at locations which have yet to be worked out) and distributed to an increasing number of electric vehicles (which haven't been bought yet).

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    does talk about the process of working out how the capacity of electricity distribution grid is going to have to be expanded - by about 60% - to cope with this.

    This about as much of a plan as is worth making at the moment. Since you are an idiot, you think you can demand to see a plan that shows the fine details of what's going to be done six years in the future, and get upset when you can't find one.

    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo, I already did the numbers for you: ONE HUNDRED SIXTY FOUR MILES PER DAY to expand the grid by 60% in SEVEN YEARS! Don't you understand simple math - it isn't even algebra. Lyin' Biden has NO PLAN to make this happen. You have searched till you
    little fingers are worn to their nubs and couldn't find it. Electrical grids just don't materialize out of thin air. The libtards are going down a path leading to a DISASTER.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Aug 21 22:23:24 2022
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    I'm sure that the US electricity grid is being worked on today. The nature of that work won't have much to do with what is going to happen over the next six years, as it is adapted to dealing with more electricity generated from renewable sources (
    which haven't been built yet, at locations which have yet to be worked out) and distributed to an increasing number of electric vehicles (which haven't been bought yet).

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    does talk about the process of working out how the capacity of electricity distribution grid is going to have to be expanded - by about 60% - to cope with this.

    This about as much of a plan as is worth making at the moment. Since you are an idiot, you think you can demand to see a plan that shows the fine details of what's going to be done six years in the future, and get upset when you can't find one.

    Hey I already did the numbers for you: ONE HUNDRED SIXTY FOUR MILES PER DAY to expand the grid by 60% in SEVEN YEARS!

    One hundred and sixty miles of what per day?

    Don't you understand simple math - it isn't even algebra.

    It's barely a mantra. Math means something, and your fatuous claim means nothing.

    Joe Biden has NO PLAN to make this happen.

    On the contrary he has, but they are at a higher level than you could comprehend, even if you wanted to.

    You have searched till you little fingers are worn to their nubs and couldn't find it.

    Obviously not. It's little early to make that kind of plan when nobody has worked out where that extra power is actually going to be generated.

    Electrical grids just don't materialize out of thin air. The libtards are going down a path leading to a DISASTER.

    Electrical grids exist to connect generators to consumers. The extra 60% capacity is to hook up generators that don't exist yet to customers who have yet to ask for the extra power. Getting frantic about the lack of detailed planning to connect
    generators that are barely in the planning stage with totally uncommitted potential customers may be great political theater, but it's still utterly stupid.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sun Aug 21 22:48:02 2022
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    I'm sure that the US electricity grid is being worked on today. The nature of that work won't have much to do with what is going to happen over the next six years, as it is adapted to dealing with more electricity generated from renewable sources (
    which haven't been built yet, at locations which have yet to be worked out) and distributed to an increasing number of electric vehicles (which haven't been bought yet).

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize

    does talk about the process of working out how the capacity of electricity distribution grid is going to have to be expanded - by about 60% - to cope with this.

    This about as much of a plan as is worth making at the moment. Since you are an idiot, you think you can demand to see a plan that shows the fine details of what's going to be done six years in the future, and get upset when you can't find one.

    Hey I already did the numbers for you: ONE HUNDRED SIXTY FOUR MILES PER DAY to expand the grid by 60% in SEVEN YEARS!

    One hundred and sixty miles of what per day?
    Don't you understand simple math - it isn't even algebra.
    It's barely a mantra. Math means something, and your fatuous claim means nothing.

    Joe Biden has NO PLAN to make this happen.

    On the contrary he has, but they are at a higher level than you could comprehend, even if you wanted to.

    Apparently higher than what YOU can comprehend because you CAN'T FIND THEM!

    You have searched till you little fingers are worn to their nubs and couldn't find it.
    Obviously not. It's little early to make that kind of plan when nobody has worked out where that extra power is actually going to be generated.

    So, you are now saying that there IS NO PLAN, which is what I have been saying all along.

    Electrical grids just don't materialize out of thin air. The libtards are going down a path leading to a DISASTER.
    Electrical grids exist to connect generators to consumers. The extra 60% capacity is to hook up generators that don't exist yet to customers who have yet to ask for the extra power. Getting frantic about the lack of detailed planning to connect
    generators that are barely in the planning stage with totally uncommitted potential customers may be great political theater, but it's still utterly stupid.

    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo, now you are making excuses for why Lyin' Biden DOESN'T have a plan, after you have blubbered time and time again that he DID have a plan - which IS IT??? Well, I can tell you with certainty: there IS NO PLAN!!! And that is just for the grid -
    there is also NO PLAN to add the generation capacity. All of this will cost TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS. You call it "political theater," but when the lights go out (along with heating, cooling and refrigeration) the people will NOT accept your, and Lyin'
    Biden's, LAME EXCUSES - you are truly a BOZO!!!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Aug 21 23:17:36 2022
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Hey, now you are making excuses for why Joe Biden DOESN'T have a plan, after you have blubbered time and time again that he DID have a plan - which IS IT???

    He does have a plan, but not the kind which fits your unrealistic expectation.

    Well, I can tell you with certainty: there IS NO PLAN!!!

    Of course you can. You are an idiot who is confident that he understands stuff that he hasn't got a clue about. Your opinion is worthless, but you are incapable of realising just how worthless it is.

    And that is just for the grid - there is also NO PLAN to add the generation capacity. All of this will cost TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

    As if you'd know.

    You call it "political theater," but when the lights go out (along with heating, cooling and refrigeration) the people will NOT accept your, and Joe Biden's, LAME EXCUSES.

    Let's wait until the light actually go out before we got too excited.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize does suggest that

    does suggest that the US Federal government is aware that it needs to do some work on the electricity generating and distribution system.

    You don't seem to trust the plan, but the current US administration is run by Democrats, and it seems unlikely that you could ever think that they could do anything right.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Tue Aug 23 21:30:17 2022
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Hey, now you are making excuses for why Joe Biden DOESN'T have a plan, after you have blubbered time and time again that he DID have a plan - which IS IT???

    He does have a plan, but not the kind which fits your unrealistic expectation.

    No, Lyin' Biden has no plan and you have been unable to find it despite your desperate searching. A plan spells out how the grid will be expanded by 60% in SEVEN YEARS, step by step, and WHERE the money will come from, and HOW MUCH it will cost. Lyin'
    Biden has done NONE of these things.

    Well, I can tell you with certainty: there IS NO PLAN!!!
    Of course you can. You are an idiot who is confident that he understands stuff that he hasn't got a clue about. Your opinion is worthless, but you are incapable of realising just how worthless it is.

    No, YOU are the idiot who continues to say there is a plan but can't PRODUCE IT! My opinion counts MORE than yours because I am a US citizen.

    And that is just for the grid - there is also NO PLAN to add the generation capacity. All of this will cost TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.
    As if you'd know.

    I have produced MULTIPLE estimates of this figure by acknowledged EXPERTS, you fool.


    You call it "political theater," but when the lights go out (along with heating, cooling and refrigeration) the people will NOT accept your, and Joe Biden's, LAME EXCUSES.

    Let's wait until the light actually go out before we got too excited.

    LOL! The lights have ALREADY gone out - numerous times, you IDIOT!


    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize does suggest that

    does suggest that the US Federal government is aware that it needs to do some work on the electricity generating and distribution system.

    Being "aware" of a problem IS NOT a PLAN! If you fall off a cliff you are "aware" that you have a problem.


    You don't seem to trust the plan, but the current US administration is run by Democrats, and it seems unlikely that you could ever think that they could do anything right.

    There IS NO PLAN to trust, you fool, and you have been unable to product it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Tue Aug 23 22:58:05 2022
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Hey, now you are making excuses for why Joe Biden DOESN'T have a plan, after you have blubbered time and time again that he DID have a plan - which IS IT???

    He does have a plan, but not the kind which fits your unrealistic expectation.

    No,Joe Biden has no plan and you have been unable to find it despite your desperate searching.

    What you are saying is that you don't want to admit that he does have plan, because he is a Democrat.

    A plan spells out how the grid will be expanded by 60% in SEVEN YEARS, step by step, and WHERE the money will come from, and HOW MUCH it will cost. Joe Biden has done NONE of these things.

    It has to do that eventually, but you first have to work where the grid will be expanded, but we don't yet know where the new generating capacity is going to be installed. Detailing where and how the grid has to be expanded to cope with it at this stage
    is consequently a little difficult.

    Well, I can tell you with certainty: there IS NO PLAN!!!

    Of course you can. You are an idiot who is confident that he understands stuff that he hasn't got a clue about. Your opinion is worthless, but you are incapable of realising just how worthless it is.

    No, YOU are the idiot who continues to say there is a plan but can't PRODUCE IT!

    As if you'd be willing to recognise any plan that the Democrats might produce.

    My opinion counts MORE than yours because I am a US citizen.

    Actually less, because you are a complete idiot, and much too dumb to realise how idiotic you actually are.

    And that is just for the grid - there is also NO PLAN to add the generation capacity. All of this will cost TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

    As if you'd know.

    I have produced MULTIPLE estimates of this figure by acknowledged EXPERTS, you fool.

    So post a link to one of them. All you have produced so far is claims that such estimates exist, and your capacity for misunderstanding data as supporting you own point of view is well known

    You call it "political theater," but when the lights go out (along with heating, cooling and refrigeration) the people will NOT accept your, and Joe Biden's, LAME EXCUSES.

    Let's wait until the light actually go out before we got too excited.

    LOL! The lights have ALREADY gone out - numerous times, you IDIOT!

    But not for reasons that have anything to do with your imagined emergency.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize does suggest that

    does suggest that the US Federal government is aware that it needs to do some work on the electricity generating and distribution system.

    Being "aware" of a problem IS NOT a PLAN! If you fall off a cliff you are "aware" that you have a problem.

    You don't seem to be "falling off any kind of cliff" at the moment,

    You don't seem to trust the plan, but the current US administration is run by Democrats, and it seems unlikely that you could ever think that they could do anything right.

    There IS NO PLAN to trust, you fool, and you have been unable to produce it.

    None that you are willing to recognise as any kind of plan. You want to post hysterical anti-democrat nonsense, and being a lunatic alarmist lets you do that.
    If you had any grasp of reality you'd be aware that you are portraying yourself as a complete twit, but a complete twit wouldn't care about that.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Wed Aug 24 16:34:37 2022
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Hey, now you are making excuses for why Joe Biden DOESN'T have a plan, after you have blubbered time and time again that he DID have a plan - which IS IT???

    He does have a plan, but not the kind which fits your unrealistic expectation.

    No,Joe Biden has no plan and you have been unable to find it despite your desperate searching.

    What you are saying is that you don't want to admit that he does have plan, because he is a Democrat.

    A plan spells out how the grid will be expanded by 60% in SEVEN YEARS, step by step, and WHERE the money will come from, and HOW MUCH it will cost. Joe Biden has done NONE of these things.

    It has to do that eventually, but you first have to work where the grid will be expanded, but we don't yet know where the new generating capacity is going to be installed. Detailing where and how the grid has to be expanded to cope with it at this
    stage is consequently a little difficult.
    Well, I can tell you with certainty: there IS NO PLAN!!!

    Of course you can. You are an idiot who is confident that he understands stuff that he hasn't got a clue about. Your opinion is worthless, but you are incapable of realising just how worthless it is.

    No, YOU are the idiot who continues to say there is a plan but can't PRODUCE IT!
    As if you'd be willing to recognise any plan that the Democrats might produce.
    My opinion counts MORE than yours because I am a US citizen.
    Actually less, because you are a complete idiot, and much too dumb to realise how idiotic you actually are.
    And that is just for the grid - there is also NO PLAN to add the generation capacity. All of this will cost TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

    As if you'd know.

    I have produced MULTIPLE estimates of this figure by acknowledged EXPERTS, you fool.
    So post a link to one of them. All you have produced so far is claims that such estimates exist, and your capacity for misunderstanding data as supporting you own point of view is well known
    You call it "political theater," but when the lights go out (along with heating, cooling and refrigeration) the people will NOT accept your, and Joe Biden's, LAME EXCUSES.

    Let's wait until the light actually go out before we got too excited.

    LOL! The lights have ALREADY gone out - numerous times, you IDIOT!
    But not for reasons that have anything to do with your imagined emergency.
    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize does suggest that

    does suggest that the US Federal government is aware that it needs to do some work on the electricity generating and distribution system.

    Being "aware" of a problem IS NOT a PLAN! If you fall off a cliff you are "aware" that you have a problem.
    You don't seem to be "falling off any kind of cliff" at the moment,

    I'm not, but the nation IS!

    You don't seem to trust the plan, but the current US administration is run by Democrats, and it seems unlikely that you could ever think that they could do anything right.

    There IS NO PLAN to trust, you fool, and you have been unable to produce it.

    None that you are willing to recognise as any kind of plan. You want to post hysterical anti-democrat nonsense, and being a lunatic alarmist lets you do that.

    Translation: there IS NO PLAN to expand the grid by 60% in SEVEN YEARS. Got it...

    If you had any grasp of reality you'd be aware that you are portraying yourself as a complete twit, but a complete twit wouldn't care about that.

    No, Bozo, YOU are portraying yourself as a COMPLETE TWIT by claiming there is a plan when there ISN'T!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Aug 24 17:42:31 2022
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Hey, now you are making excuses for why Joe Biden DOESN'T have a plan, after you have blubbered time and time again that he DID have a plan - which IS IT???

    He does have a plan, but not the kind which fits your unrealistic expectation.

    No,Joe Biden has no plan and you have been unable to find it despite your desperate searching.

    What you are saying is that you don't want to admit that he does have plan, because he is a Democrat.

    A plan spells out how the grid will be expanded by 60% in SEVEN YEARS, step by step, and WHERE the money will come from, and HOW MUCH it will cost. Joe Biden has done NONE of these things.

    It has to do that eventually, but you first have to work where the grid will be expanded, but we don't yet know where the new generating capacity is going to be installed. Detailing where and how the grid has to be expanded to cope with it at this
    stage is consequently a little difficult.

    Well, I can tell you with certainty: there IS NO PLAN!!!

    Of course you can. You are an idiot who is confident that he understands stuff that he hasn't got a clue about. Your opinion is worthless, but you are incapable of realising just how worthless it is.

    No, YOU are the idiot who continues to say there is a plan but can't PRODUCE IT!
    As if you'd be willing to recognise any plan that the Democrats might produce.
    My opinion counts MORE than yours because I am a US citizen.
    Actually less, because you are a complete idiot, and much too dumb to realise how idiotic you actually are.
    And that is just for the grid - there is also NO PLAN to add the generation capacity. All of this will cost TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

    As if you'd know.

    I have produced MULTIPLE estimates of this figure by acknowledged EXPERTS, you fool.

    So post a link to one of them. All you have produced so far is claims that such estimates exist, and your capacity for misunderstanding data as supporting you own point of view is well known.

    You call it "political theater," but when the lights go out (along with heating, cooling and refrigeration) the people will NOT accept your, and Joe Biden's, LAME EXCUSES.

    Let's wait until the light actually go out before we got too excited.

    LOL! The lights have ALREADY gone out - numerous times, you IDIOT!

    But not for reasons that have anything to do with your imagined emergency.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize does suggest that

    does suggest that the US Federal government is aware that it needs to do some work on the electricity generating and distribution system.

    Being "aware" of a problem IS NOT a PLAN! If you fall off a cliff you are "aware" that you have a problem.

    You don't seem to be "falling off any kind of cliff" at the moment.

    I'm not, but the nation IS!

    Ask any alarmist idiot with no grasp of reality.

    You don't seem to trust the plan, but the current US administration is run by Democrats, and it seems unlikely that you could ever think that they could do anything right.

    There IS NO PLAN to trust, you fool, and you have been unable to produce it.

    None that you are willing to recognise as any kind of plan. You want to post hysterical anti-democrat nonsense, and being a lunatic alarmist lets you do that.

    Translation: there IS NO PLAN to expand the grid by 60% in SEVEN YEARS. Got it...

    Gnatguy has this habit of posting fatuous lies and calling them "translations". What he's like the statements to mean, rather than what they actually mean.

    If you had any grasp of reality you'd be aware that you are portraying yourself as a complete twit, but a complete twit wouldn't care about that.

    No, YOU are portraying yourself as a COMPLETE TWIT by claiming there is a plan when there ISN'T!

    Gnatguy in denial, as always.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Wed Aug 24 18:46:53 2022
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Hey, now you are making excuses for why Joe Biden DOESN'T have a plan, after you have blubbered time and time again that he DID have a plan - which IS IT???

    He does have a plan, but not the kind which fits your unrealistic expectation.

    No,Joe Biden has no plan and you have been unable to find it despite your desperate searching.

    What you are saying is that you don't want to admit that he does have plan, because he is a Democrat.

    A plan spells out how the grid will be expanded by 60% in SEVEN YEARS, step by step, and WHERE the money will come from, and HOW MUCH it will cost. Joe Biden has done NONE of these things.

    It has to do that eventually, but you first have to work where the grid will be expanded, but we don't yet know where the new generating capacity is going to be installed. Detailing where and how the grid has to be expanded to cope with it at this
    stage is consequently a little difficult.

    Well, I can tell you with certainty: there IS NO PLAN!!!

    Of course you can. You are an idiot who is confident that he understands stuff that he hasn't got a clue about. Your opinion is worthless, but you are incapable of realising just how worthless it is.

    No, YOU are the idiot who continues to say there is a plan but can't PRODUCE IT!
    As if you'd be willing to recognise any plan that the Democrats might produce.
    My opinion counts MORE than yours because I am a US citizen.
    Actually less, because you are a complete idiot, and much too dumb to realise how idiotic you actually are.
    And that is just for the grid - there is also NO PLAN to add the generation capacity. All of this will cost TRILLIONS OF DOLLARS.

    As if you'd know.

    I have produced MULTIPLE estimates of this figure by acknowledged EXPERTS, you fool.

    So post a link to one of them. All you have produced so far is claims that such estimates exist, and your capacity for misunderstanding data as supporting you own point of view is well known.

    You call it "political theater," but when the lights go out (along with heating, cooling and refrigeration) the people will NOT accept your, and Joe Biden's, LAME EXCUSES.

    Let's wait until the light actually go out before we got too excited.

    LOL! The lights have ALREADY gone out - numerous times, you IDIOT!

    But not for reasons that have anything to do with your imagined emergency.

    https://www.energy.gov/oe/articles/doe-launches-new-initiative-president-bidens-bipartisan-infrastructure-law-modernize does suggest that

    does suggest that the US Federal government is aware that it needs to do some work on the electricity generating and distribution system.

    Being "aware" of a problem IS NOT a PLAN! If you fall off a cliff you are "aware" that you have a problem.

    You don't seem to be "falling off any kind of cliff" at the moment.

    I'm not, but the nation IS!
    Ask any alarmist idiot with no grasp of reality.
    You don't seem to trust the plan, but the current US administration is run by Democrats, and it seems unlikely that you could ever think that they could do anything right.

    There IS NO PLAN to trust, you fool, and you have been unable to produce it.

    None that you are willing to recognise as any kind of plan. You want to post hysterical anti-democrat nonsense, and being a lunatic alarmist lets you do that.

    Translation: there IS NO PLAN to expand the grid by 60% in SEVEN YEARS. Got it...
    Gnatguy has this habit of posting fatuous lies and calling them "translations". What he's like the statements to mean, rather than what they actually mean.
    If you had any grasp of reality you'd be aware that you are portraying yourself as a complete twit, but a complete twit wouldn't care about that.
    No, YOU are portraying yourself as a COMPLETE TWIT by claiming there is a plan when there ISN'T!

    Gnatguy in denial, as always.

    More DENIAL and DEFLECTION by the Bozo Man, but NO FUCKING PLAN!

    Hey Bozo, SHOW US THE PLAN or SHUT UP!!!!!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Aug 24 19:17:08 2022
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Gnatguy in denial, as always.

    More DENIAL and DEFLECTION by the Bozo Man, but NO FUCKING PLAN!

    Hey, SHOW US THE PLAN or SHUT UP!!!!!!!

    We did, and you refuse to recognise it as a plan. Why would you? You want to post nonsensical anti-Democrat propaganda, and you can do pig-ignorance and incomprehension very convincingly, probably because you are pig-ignorant and capable of comprehending
    very little indeed.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Thu Aug 25 16:42:57 2022
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Gnatguy in denial, as always.

    More DENIAL and DEFLECTION by the Bozo Man, but NO FUCKING PLAN!

    Hey, SHOW US THE PLAN or SHUT UP!!!!!!!

    We did, and you refuse to recognise it as a plan. Why would you? You want to post nonsensical anti-Democrat propaganda, and you can do pig-ignorance and incomprehension very convincingly, probably because you are pig-ignorant and capable of
    comprehending very little indeed.

    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    No, Bozo, that IS NOT a plan to EXPAND the grid by 60% in seven years. Not even close. The electrical grid is APOLITICAL: electricity knows no party, and a blackout affect Republicans, Democrats and Independents EQUALLY.

    And this is just PART of the BAD NEWS - see my latest post on grid (non)maintence.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Thu Aug 25 17:33:17 2022
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Gnatguy in denial, as always.

    More DENIAL and DEFLECTION by the Bozo Man, but NO FUCKING PLAN!

    Hey, SHOW US THE PLAN or SHUT UP!!!!!!!

    We did, and you refuse to recognise it as a plan. Why would you? You want to post nonsensical anti-Democrat propaganda, and you can do pig-ignorance and incomprehension very convincingly, probably because you are pig-ignorant and capable of
    comprehending very little indeed.

    No, Bozo, that IS NOT a plan to EXPAND the grid by 60% in seven years. Not even close. The electrical grid is APOLITICAL: electricity knows no party, and a blackout affect Republicans, Democrats and Independents EQUALLY.

    But the blackouts aren't actually happening, and the only person frothing at the mouth in fear that they might seem to be Trump-supporting half-wit,

    And this is just PART of the BAD NEWS - see my latest post on grid (non)maintence.

    The really bad news is that Trump hasn't yet been put on trial for treason. The prosecutor should ask for the death penalty when it happens.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Thu Aug 25 19:54:19 2022
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Gnatguy in denial, as always.

    More DENIAL and DEFLECTION by the Bozo Man, but NO FUCKING PLAN!

    Hey, SHOW US THE PLAN or SHUT UP!!!!!!!

    We did, and you refuse to recognise it as a plan. Why would you? You want to post nonsensical anti-Democrat propaganda, and you can do pig-ignorance and incomprehension very convincingly, probably because you are pig-ignorant and capable of
    comprehending very little indeed.

    No, Bozo, that IS NOT a plan to EXPAND the grid by 60% in seven years. Not even close. The electrical grid is APOLITICAL: electricity knows no party, and a blackout affect Republicans, Democrats and Independents EQUALLY.
    But the blackouts aren't actually happening, and the only person frothing at the mouth in fear that they might seem to be Trump-supporting half-wit,

    You fucking idiot, don't you follow the news: California has ALREADY suffered from rolling blackouts. Read this, CAREFULLY:
    https://www.forbes.com/sites/llewellynking/2022/07/05/crisis-of-2022-blackouts-major-construction-delays-test-us-grid/?sh=567cf9e92523

    And this is just PART of the BAD NEWS - see my latest post on grid (non)maintence.
    The really bad news is that Trump hasn't yet been put on trial for treason. The prosecutor should ask for the death penalty when it happens.

    Bad news for fucking libtards such as yourself, Bozo. That will ONLY happen AFTER Shrillary is tried for treason.


    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Thu Aug 25 21:09:44 2022
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    The really bad news is that Trump hasn't yet been put on trial for treason. The prosecutor should ask for the death penalty when it happens.

    Bad news for you. That will ONLY happen AFTER Shrillary is tried for treason.

    Even Trump didn't get around to trying Hillary Clinton for treason, for excellent reason that she didn't commit any treason.

    Trump engineered the invasion of the Capitol building in an ill-judged attempt to retain power by violent means. That was treason, and it does look as if he is going to be charged and tried for it.

    His brain-damaged supporters aren't going to like it, which is going to be just as gratifying.
    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Thu Aug 25 21:14:54 2022
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    The really bad news is that Trump hasn't yet been put on trial for treason. The prosecutor should ask for the death penalty when it happens.

    Bad news for you. That will ONLY happen AFTER Shrillary is tried for treason.

    Even Trump didn't get around to trying Hillary Clinton for treason, for excellent reason that she didn't commit any treason.

    Trump engineered the invasion of the Capitol building in an ill-judged attempt to retain power by violent means. That was treason, and it does look as if he is going to be charged and tried for it.

    His brain-damaged supporters aren't going to like it, which is going to be just as gratifying.
    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo, your unhealthy obsession with Trump (it is called Trump Derangement Syndrome) has NOTHING to do with that senile pervert Lyin' Biden.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Thu Aug 25 22:17:38 2022
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    The really bad news is that Trump hasn't yet been put on trial for treason. The prosecutor should ask for the death penalty when it happens.

    Bad news for you. That will ONLY happen AFTER Shrillary is tried for treason.

    Even Trump didn't get around to trying Hillary Clinton for treason, for excellent reason that she didn't commit any treason.

    Trump engineered the invasion of the Capitol building in an ill-judged attempt to retain power by violent means. That was treason, and it does look as if he is going to be charged and tried for it.

    His brain-damaged supporters aren't going to like it, which is going to be just as gratifying.

    Your unhealthy obsession with Trump (it is called Trump Derangement Syndrome) has NOTHING to do with Joe Biden.

    People who noticed that Trump was not a fit candidate for president of the United States weren't deranged back in 2015, and they aren't deranged now.
    The actual Trump Derangement Syndrome is the incapacity to recognise his dangerous defects, and the idea that there's something wrong with people who can. You do seem to suffer from it.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Thu Aug 25 23:31:02 2022
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    The really bad news is that Trump hasn't yet been put on trial for treason. The prosecutor should ask for the death penalty when it happens.

    Bad news for you. That will ONLY happen AFTER Shrillary is tried for treason.

    Even Trump didn't get around to trying Hillary Clinton for treason, for excellent reason that she didn't commit any treason.

    Trump engineered the invasion of the Capitol building in an ill-judged attempt to retain power by violent means. That was treason, and it does look as if he is going to be charged and tried for it.

    His brain-damaged supporters aren't going to like it, which is going to be just as gratifying.

    Your unhealthy obsession with Trump (it is called Trump Derangement Syndrome) has NOTHING to do with Joe Biden.

    People who noticed that Trump was not a fit candidate for president of the United States weren't deranged back in 2015, and they aren't deranged now.
    The actual Trump Derangement Syndrome is the incapacity to recognise his dangerous defects, and the idea that there's something wrong with people who can. You do seem to suffer from it.

    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo, you are displaying symptoms of ADVANCED Trump Derangement Syndrome. The person unqualified to be President is clearly that senile pervert Lyin' Biden. This is a SERIOUS thread drift - get back on the subject.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Fri Aug 26 01:18:30 2022
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    People who noticed that Trump was not a fit candidate for president of the United States weren't deranged back in 2015, and they aren't deranged now.
    The actual Trump Derangement Syndrome is the incapacity to recognise his dangerous defects, and the idea that there's something wrong with people who can. You do seem to suffer from it.

    Hey, you are displaying symptoms of ADVANCED Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    Whereas Gnatguy suffers from the Retarded Trump Derangement Syndrome - which is the form it takes when your brain starts going backwards in senile dementia.

    The person unqualified to be President is clearly Joe Biden.

    A clear majority of the American public voted for him in 2020. Yours opinion is clearly that of an unfortunate - and unsuccessful - minority.

    This is a SERIOUS thread drift - get back on the subject.

    You opened the tread by claiming that the Biden administration "have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots."

    You didn't explain why you thought that - what you have posted here suggests that you think that they don't know anything about anything at all, which is unlikely to be correct.

    You then asked

    "How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below. "

    when the answer is well known - about 30% - and widely accessible.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    One can paraphrase the message as "Gnatguy is clueless and thinks everybody else is too". The thread is about you advertising just how clueless you are.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to GnatTurd on Fri Aug 26 15:27:20 2022
    GnatTurd <Maggot2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote in news:a6ac68d5-d225-46f9- ad9a-b0efd991bcban@googlegroups.com:

    and a blackout affect Republicans,

    Blackouts are an illicit money grab ploy. Nothing more. They have the capacity to provide full time.

    Examine the Enron debacle and SDGE's parent company, Sempra Energy. Criminally negligent was the finding, but no criminal charges.

    Par for the course with ReThugLeTard violators of the law.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Fri Aug 26 15:33:43 2022
    Flyguy <soar2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote in news:d5123b55-e93d-46ce-a2e0-7259d0fdedc5n@googlegroups.com:

    You fucking idiot, don't you follow the news: California has
    ALREADY suffered from rolling blackouts.

    Rolling blackouts are a moneygrab ploy, just like they were when it was
    Enron doing it.

    I do not expect a total retard like you to have even the first clue.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to DecadentLinux...@decadence.org on Sun Aug 28 18:02:24 2022
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 8:27:27 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    GnatTurd <Maggot...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:a6ac68d5-d225-46f9- ad9a-b0ef...@googlegroups.com:
    and a blackout affect Republicans,
    Blackouts are an illicit money grab ploy. Nothing more. They have the capacity to provide full time.

    Examine the Enron debacle and SDGE's parent company, Sempra Energy. Criminally negligent was the finding, but no criminal charges.

    Par for the course with ReThugLeTard violators of the law.

    Decayed Brain Matter is now resorting to the CONSPIRACY THEORY - utilities are trying to extort us for money. This putts DBM into the "tin hat" category not worthy of a response.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sun Aug 28 18:00:29 2022
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    People who noticed that Trump was not a fit candidate for president of the United States weren't deranged back in 2015, and they aren't deranged now.
    The actual Trump Derangement Syndrome is the incapacity to recognise his dangerous defects, and the idea that there's something wrong with people who can. You do seem to suffer from it.

    Hey, you are displaying symptoms of ADVANCED Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    Whereas Gnatguy suffers from the Retarded Trump Derangement Syndrome - which is the form it takes when your brain starts going backwards in senile dementia.

    The person unqualified to be President is clearly Joe Biden.

    A clear majority of the American public voted for him in 2020. Yours opinion is clearly that of an unfortunate - and unsuccessful - minority.
    This is a SERIOUS thread drift - get back on the subject.
    You opened the tread by claiming that the Biden administration "have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots."

    You didn't explain why you thought that - what you have posted here suggests that you think that they don't know anything about anything at all, which is unlikely to be correct.

    You then asked

    "How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below. "

    when the answer is well known - about 30% - and widely accessible.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    One can paraphrase the message as "Gnatguy is clueless and thinks everybody else is too". The thread is about you advertising just how clueless you are.

    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo, that ARTICLE (note: I have read it before and it is NOT A PLAN!) is as clueless as you are. This article says NOTHING about the expansion of the grid - it ONLY talks about CHARGING of EVs!!! So, you are STILL batting ZERO, Bozo.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Aug 28 20:33:49 2022
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    People who noticed that Trump was not a fit candidate for president of the United States weren't deranged back in 2015, and they aren't deranged now.
    The actual Trump Derangement Syndrome is the incapacity to recognise his dangerous defects, and the idea that there's something wrong with people who can. You do seem to suffer from it.

    Hey, you are displaying symptoms of ADVANCED Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    Whereas Gnatguy suffers from the Retarded Trump Derangement Syndrome - which is the form it takes when your brain starts going backwards in senile dementia.

    The person unqualified to be President is clearly Joe Biden.

    A clear majority of the American public voted for him in 2020. Yours opinion is clearly that of an unfortunate - and unsuccessful - minority.

    This is a SERIOUS thread drift - get back on the subject.

    You opened the thread by claiming that the Biden administration "have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots."

    You didn't explain why you thought that - what you have posted here suggests that you think that they don't know anything about anything at all, which is unlikely to be correct.

    You then asked

    "How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below. "

    when the answer is well known - about 30% - and widely accessible.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    One can paraphrase the message as "Gnatguy is clueless and thinks everybody else is too". The thread is about you advertising just how clueless you are.

    Hey Bozo, that ARTICLE (note: I have read it before and it is NOT A PLAN!) is as clueless as you are.

    It's an opinion piece by a journalist. It answers the question you put when you opened this thread, and you clearly hadn't read it until I'd posted the link.

    This article says NOTHING about the expansion of the grid - it ONLY talks about CHARGING of EVs!!! So, you are STILL batting ZERO, Bozo.

    It talks about the extra power the gird would have to supply if electric vehicles replaced those powered by internal combustion engines. The grid would have to supply more power so it would have to be expanded - if not all that dramatically. That's not "
    nothing", and it is as much as you can expect to see in popular journalism.

    It's blindingly obvious that the extra power is going to come from solar cells and wind turbines - they are the cheapest sources of power available, and electric vehicle don't care when they get charged so the intermittent nature of the power delivery is
    less of a problem for them than it is for many grid customers.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sun Aug 28 20:49:59 2022
    On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:33:54 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    People who noticed that Trump was not a fit candidate for president of the United States weren't deranged back in 2015, and they aren't deranged now.
    The actual Trump Derangement Syndrome is the incapacity to recognise his dangerous defects, and the idea that there's something wrong with people who can. You do seem to suffer from it.

    Hey, you are displaying symptoms of ADVANCED Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    Whereas Gnatguy suffers from the Retarded Trump Derangement Syndrome - which is the form it takes when your brain starts going backwards in senile dementia.

    The person unqualified to be President is clearly Joe Biden.

    A clear majority of the American public voted for him in 2020. Yours opinion is clearly that of an unfortunate - and unsuccessful - minority.

    This is a SERIOUS thread drift - get back on the subject.

    You opened the thread by claiming that the Biden administration "have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots."

    You didn't explain why you thought that - what you have posted here suggests that you think that they don't know anything about anything at all, which is unlikely to be correct.

    You then asked

    "How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below. "

    when the answer is well known - about 30% - and widely accessible.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    One can paraphrase the message as "Gnatguy is clueless and thinks everybody else is too". The thread is about you advertising just how clueless you are.

    Hey Bozo, that ARTICLE (note: I have read it before and it is NOT A PLAN!) is as clueless as you are.
    It's an opinion piece by a journalist. It answers the question you put when you opened this thread, and you clearly hadn't read it until I'd posted the link.

    WRONG Bozo - it doesn't answer ANYTHING!

    This article says NOTHING about the expansion of the grid - it ONLY talks about CHARGING of EVs!!! So, you are STILL batting ZERO, Bozo.
    It talks about the extra power the gird would have to supply if electric vehicles replaced those powered by internal combustion engines. The grid would have to supply more power so it would have to be expanded - if not all that dramatically. That's not
    "nothing", and it is as much as you can expect to see in popular journalism.

    You should go back to school and get an EE degree: instantaneous power has NOTHING to do with TOTAL power the grid will be required to supply to meet our future needs. You can supply large amounts of instantaneous power for short periods with such things
    as batteries. This is routinely done in EVs, for example.


    It's blindingly obvious that the extra power is going to come from solar cells and wind turbines - they are the cheapest sources of power available, and electric vehicle don't care when they get charged so the intermittent nature of the power delivery
    is less of a problem for them than it is for many grid customers.

    BLIND aptly describes you and the rest of the greenies, Bozo. Those sources are UNRELIABLE and must be backed up with RELIABLE power sources, such as nuke plants. It is painfully obvious that OZ has NO NUKE PLANTS, so MUST use fossil fuel as backups.


    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to GnatTurd on Mon Aug 29 07:33:07 2022
    GnatTurd <maggot2morrow@yahoo.com> wrote in news:853962c7-202e-4211-83ac-8de407ecd82en@googlegroups.com:

    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 8:27:27 AM UTC-7, DecadentLinux...@decadence.org wrote:
    GnatTurd <Maggot...@yahoo.com> wrote in news:a6ac68d5-d225-46f9-
    ad9a-b0ef...@googlegroups.com:
    and a blackout affect Republicans,
    Blackouts are an illicit money grab ploy. Nothing more. They have
    the capacity to provide full time.

    Examine the Enron debacle and SDGE's parent company, Sempra
    Energy. Criminally negligent was the finding, but no criminal
    charges.

    Par for the course with ReThugLeTard violators of the law.

    Decayed Brain Matter is now resorting to the CONSPIRACY THEORY -
    utilities are trying to extort us for money. This putts DBM into
    the "tin hat" category not worthy of a response.

    What Enron and Sempra Energy did was no conspiracy theory, idiot.
    It was Enron's well deserved downfall, and it was proed the Sempra
    was in on it, and they continued the 'practice'.

    You are as clueless as a Trump Cult total retard can get.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Mon Aug 29 07:14:12 2022
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 1:50:03 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:33:54 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    People who noticed that Trump was not a fit candidate for president of the United States weren't deranged back in 2015, and they aren't deranged now.
    The actual Trump Derangement Syndrome is the incapacity to recognise his dangerous defects, and the idea that there's something wrong with people who can. You do seem to suffer from it.

    Hey, you are displaying symptoms of ADVANCED Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    Whereas Gnatguy suffers from the Retarded Trump Derangement Syndrome - which is the form it takes when your brain starts going backwards in senile dementia.

    The person unqualified to be President is clearly Joe Biden.

    A clear majority of the American public voted for him in 2020. Yours opinion is clearly that of an unfortunate - and unsuccessful - minority.

    This is a SERIOUS thread drift - get back on the subject.

    You opened the thread by claiming that the Biden administration "have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots."

    You didn't explain why you thought that - what you have posted here suggests that you think that they don't know anything about anything at all, which is unlikely to be correct.

    You then asked

    "How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below. "

    when the answer is well known - about 30% - and widely accessible.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    One can paraphrase the message as "Gnatguy is clueless and thinks everybody else is too". The thread is about you advertising just how clueless you are.

    Hey Bozo, that ARTICLE (note: I have read it before and it is NOT A PLAN!) is as clueless as you are.

    It's an opinion piece by a journalist. It answers the question you put when you opened this thread, and you clearly hadn't read it until I'd posted the link.

    WRONG - it doesn't answer ANYTHING!

    So you read it and didn't understand what it was saying? Or maybe forgot the question you originally asked ?

    This article says NOTHING about the expansion of the grid - it ONLY talks about CHARGING of EVs!!! So, you are STILL batting ZERO.

    Your question was " what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned " and the amount of extra power that will have to be delivered by the grid is the first question you have to answer before you get onto the more
    detailed points about where you putting the extra generating capacity, and - subsequently - how you get and where you put the extra transmission capacity to get it from the new generators to the customers.

    You have to work out the amount power that electric vehicles need before you can start working out anything else.

    It talks about the extra power the gird would have to supply if electric vehicles replaced those powered by internal combustion engines. The grid would have to supply more power so it would have to be expanded - if not all that dramatically. That's
    not "nothing", and it is as much as you can expect to see in popular journalism.

    You should go back to school and get an EE degree: instantaneous power has NOTHING to do with TOTAL power the grid will be required to supply to meet our future needs.

    It wasn't talking about instantaneous power at all but rather specifically discussing the total amount of extra power needed

    You can supply large amounts of instantaneous power for short periods with such things as batteries. This is routinely done in EVs, for example.

    They spend 95% of their time parked, so you can usually charge their batteries quite slowly. If you take a long trip in an EV you will probably want to recharge it fast, but this isn't usual.

    It's blindingly obvious that the extra power is going to come from solar cells and wind turbines - they are the cheapest sources of power available, and electric vehicle don't care when they get charged so the intermittent nature of the power
    delivery is less of a problem for them than it is for many grid customers.

    BLIND aptly describes you and the rest of the greenies, Bozo. Those sources are UNRELIABLE and must be backed up with RELIABLE power sources, such as nuke plants. It is painfully obvious that OZ has NO NUKE PLANTS, so MUST use fossil fuel as backups.

    This is the usual fossil fuel propaganda line. Solar cells don' t produce any output overnight, so you would need grid storage to cover that. Solar cells produce less output on cloudy days, so you need geographical averaging and decent sized grid to
    average that out. Wind turbines are also variable sources, but the wind does keep blowing at night. You need excess potential generating capacity so that you can recharge the grid storage quickly after it gets depleted, but you can certainly get by
    without nuclear plants and fossil-fuel-powered generators. The fossil fuel extraction business would prefer that we didn't, and lie about it a lot, and gullible suckers like you take them seriously.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Tue Aug 30 21:12:46 2022
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:14:17 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 1:50:03 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:33:54 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    People who noticed that Trump was not a fit candidate for president of the United States weren't deranged back in 2015, and they aren't deranged now.
    The actual Trump Derangement Syndrome is the incapacity to recognise his dangerous defects, and the idea that there's something wrong with people who can. You do seem to suffer from it.

    Hey, you are displaying symptoms of ADVANCED Trump Derangement Syndrome.

    Whereas Gnatguy suffers from the Retarded Trump Derangement Syndrome - which is the form it takes when your brain starts going backwards in senile dementia.

    The person unqualified to be President is clearly Joe Biden.

    A clear majority of the American public voted for him in 2020. Yours opinion is clearly that of an unfortunate - and unsuccessful - minority.

    This is a SERIOUS thread drift - get back on the subject.

    You opened the thread by claiming that the Biden administration "have NO CLUE what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned by these idiots."

    You didn't explain why you thought that - what you have posted here suggests that you think that they don't know anything about anything at all, which is unlikely to be correct.

    You then asked

    "How much increase in grid capacity do YOU think will be required? Post your answers below. "

    when the answer is well known - about 30% - and widely accessible.

    https://www.forbes.com/sites/jamesmorris/2021/11/13/electricity-grids-can-handle-electric-vehicles-easily--they-just-need-proper-management/?sh=e6e6bc578629

    One can paraphrase the message as "Gnatguy is clueless and thinks everybody else is too". The thread is about you advertising just how clueless you are.

    Hey Bozo, that ARTICLE (note: I have read it before and it is NOT A PLAN!) is as clueless as you are.

    It's an opinion piece by a journalist. It answers the question you put when you opened this thread, and you clearly hadn't read it until I'd posted the link.

    WRONG - it doesn't answer ANYTHING!

    So you read it and didn't understand what it was saying? Or maybe forgot the question you originally asked ?

    This article says NOTHING about the expansion of the grid - it ONLY talks about CHARGING of EVs!!! So, you are STILL batting ZERO.

    Your question was " what will be required of the electrical grid to support the quantity of EVs envisioned " and the amount of extra power that will have to be delivered by the grid is the first question you have to answer before you get onto the more
    detailed points about where you putting the extra generating capacity, and - subsequently - how you get and where you put the extra transmission capacity to get it from the new generators to the customers.

    Sorry, but that article doesn't even come CLOSE to answering that question. It doesn't even mention the retirement of EXISTING generation capacity, for example.


    You have to work out the amount power that electric vehicles need before you can start working out anything else.
    It talks about the extra power the gird would have to supply if electric vehicles replaced those powered by internal combustion engines. The grid would have to supply more power so it would have to be expanded - if not all that dramatically. That's
    not "nothing", and it is as much as you can expect to see in popular journalism.

    You should go back to school and get an EE degree: instantaneous power has NOTHING to do with TOTAL power the grid will be required to supply to meet our future needs.
    It wasn't talking about instantaneous power at all but rather specifically discussing the total amount of extra power needed
    You can supply large amounts of instantaneous power for short periods with such things as batteries. This is routinely done in EVs, for example.
    They spend 95% of their time parked, so you can usually charge their batteries quite slowly. If you take a long trip in an EV you will probably want to recharge it fast, but this isn't usual.
    It's blindingly obvious that the extra power is going to come from solar cells and wind turbines - they are the cheapest sources of power available, and electric vehicle don't care when they get charged so the intermittent nature of the power
    delivery is less of a problem for them than it is for many grid customers.

    BLIND aptly describes you and the rest of the greenies, Bozo. Those sources are UNRELIABLE and must be backed up with RELIABLE power sources, such as nuke plants. It is painfully obvious that OZ has NO NUKE PLANTS, so MUST use fossil fuel as backups.
    This is the usual fossil fuel propaganda line. Solar cells don' t produce any output overnight, so you would need grid storage to cover that. Solar cells produce less output on cloudy days, so you need geographical averaging and decent sized grid to
    average that out. Wind turbines are also variable sources, but the wind does keep blowing at night. You need excess potential generating capacity so that you can recharge the grid storage quickly after it gets depleted, but you can certainly get by
    without nuclear plants and fossil-fuel-powered generators. The fossil fuel extraction business would prefer that we didn't, and lie about it a lot, and gullible suckers like you take them seriously.

    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo, the bottom line is renewables = unreliable, whether it is solar or wind. Europe find this out to their dismay when the wind stopped blowing (NO, the wind does NOT necessarily blow at night, you idiot). Geographical "averaging" requires an
    expanded grid, which isn't there at this time and not for the foreseeable future given that senile pervert Lyin' Biden's TOTAL LACK OF A PLAN to implement it.

    Renewables can certainly be PART of a total energy solution, but NOT the ONLY source.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Tue Aug 30 23:03:15 2022
    On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 at 9:12:50 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    ... the bottom line is renewables = unreliable,

    Nonsense, of course. The 'renewable' word means there is no expectation of future shortages. It implies a measure of reliability.

    Renewables can certainly be PART of a total energy solution, but NOT the ONLY source.

    Not true in any long-term sense; for any reliable resources, to be available in future,
    those resources have to be 'renewable' because the alternative is 'depletable'.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Aug 31 00:04:20 2022
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 2:12:50 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:14:17 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 1:50:03 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:33:54 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    It's blindingly obvious that the extra power is going to come from solar cells and wind turbines - they are the cheapest sources of power available, and electric vehicle don't care when they get charged so the intermittent nature of the power
    delivery is less of a problem for them than it is for many grid customers.

    BLIND aptly describes you and the rest of the greenies. Those sources are UNRELIABLE and must be backed up with RELIABLE power sources, such as nuke plants. It is painfully obvious that OZ has NO NUKE PLANTS, so MUST use fossil fuel as backups.

    This is the usual fossil fuel propaganda line. Solar cells don' t produce any output overnight, so you would need grid storage to cover that. Solar cells produce less output on cloudy days, so you need geographical averaging and decent sized grid to
    average that out. Wind turbines are also variable sources, but the wind does keep blowing at night. You need excess potential generating capacity so that you can recharge the grid storage quickly after it gets depleted, but you can certainly get by
    without nuclear plants and fossil-fuel-powered generators. The fossil fuel extraction business would prefer that we didn't, and lie about it a lot, and gullible suckers like you take them seriously.

    Hey, the bottom line is renewables = unreliable, whether it is solar or wind. Europe find this out to their dismay when the wind stopped blowing (NO, the wind does NOT necessarily blow at night, you idiot).

    I didn't say that the wind necessarily blows at night. It just doesn't stop blowing reliably in the way that sun stops shining every night.

    Europe has been coping for years with the fact that the wind stops blowing - in some places - from time to time. Their big high voltage links between the European countrie to sell power to one another is one of the devices they use to cope. Grid storage
    is an other solution, but that hasn't been exploited to the same extent, so far.

    Geographical "averaging" requires an expanded grid, which isn't there at this time and not for the foreseeable future given Joe Biden's TOTAL LACK OF A PLAN to implement it.

    You've already got one. Electric vehicles are going to means that it needs to shift more current than the current grid, but that's manageable, even if you can't understand how.

    Renewables can certainly be PART of a total energy solution, but NOT the ONLY source.

    If the energy source isn't renewable, it isn't a long term solution. You don't seem to have thought about this all that carefully.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Wed Aug 31 21:18:55 2022
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 12:04:25 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 2:12:50 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:14:17 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 1:50:03 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:33:54 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    It's blindingly obvious that the extra power is going to come from solar cells and wind turbines - they are the cheapest sources of power available, and electric vehicle don't care when they get charged so the intermittent nature of the power
    delivery is less of a problem for them than it is for many grid customers.

    BLIND aptly describes you and the rest of the greenies. Those sources are UNRELIABLE and must be backed up with RELIABLE power sources, such as nuke plants. It is painfully obvious that OZ has NO NUKE PLANTS, so MUST use fossil fuel as backups.

    This is the usual fossil fuel propaganda line. Solar cells don' t produce any output overnight, so you would need grid storage to cover that. Solar cells produce less output on cloudy days, so you need geographical averaging and decent sized grid
    to average that out. Wind turbines are also variable sources, but the wind does keep blowing at night. You need excess potential generating capacity so that you can recharge the grid storage quickly after it gets depleted, but you can certainly get by
    without nuclear plants and fossil-fuel-powered generators. The fossil fuel extraction business would prefer that we didn't, and lie about it a lot, and gullible suckers like you take them seriously.

    Hey, the bottom line is renewables = unreliable, whether it is solar or wind. Europe find this out to their dismay when the wind stopped blowing (NO, the wind does NOT necessarily blow at night, you idiot).

    I didn't say that the wind necessarily blows at night. It just doesn't stop blowing reliably in the way that sun stops shining every night.

    Europe has been coping for years with the fact that the wind stops blowing - in some places - from time to time. Their big high voltage links between the European countrie to sell power to one another is one of the devices they use to cope. Grid
    storage is an other solution, but that hasn't been exploited to the same extent, so far.

    Geographical "averaging" requires an expanded grid, which isn't there at this time and not for the foreseeable future given Joe Biden's TOTAL LACK OF A PLAN to implement it.

    You've already got one. Electric vehicles are going to means that it needs to shift more current than the current grid, but that's manageable, even if you can't understand how.
    Renewables can certainly be PART of a total energy solution, but NOT the ONLY source.
    If the energy source isn't renewable, it isn't a long term solution. You don't seem to have thought about this all that carefully.

    --
    Bozo Bill Sloman, Sydney

    Hey Bozo, today California issued an emergency energy alert, indicating that rolling blackouts are in the cards (https://www.newsweek.com/california-heat-wave-update-record-temperatures-blackouts-1738463). California is the canary in the coal mines (how
    ironic!) for what is to come. They are trying to buy "green" power to supplement their woefully inadequate generation capacity which is DROPPING when it should be EXPANDING. They admit that they may have to resort to fossil fuel powered generators if
    worse comes to worse.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Wed Aug 31 22:28:10 2022
    On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 2:18:59 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 12:04:25 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 2:12:50 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:14:17 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 1:50:03 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:33:54 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    It's blindingly obvious that the extra power is going to come from solar cells and wind turbines - they are the cheapest sources of power available, and electric vehicle don't care when they get charged so the intermittent nature of the power
    delivery is less of a problem for them than it is for many grid customers.

    BLIND aptly describes you and the rest of the greenies. Those sources are UNRELIABLE and must be backed up with RELIABLE power sources, such as nuke plants. It is painfully obvious that OZ has NO NUKE PLANTS, so MUST use fossil fuel as backups.

    This is the usual fossil fuel propaganda line. Solar cells don' t produce any output overnight, so you would need grid storage to cover that. Solar cells produce less output on cloudy days, so you need geographical averaging and decent sized grid
    to average that out. Wind turbines are also variable sources, but the wind does keep blowing at night. You need excess potential generating capacity so that you can recharge the grid storage quickly after it gets depleted, but you can certainly get by
    without nuclear plants and fossil-fuel-powered generators. The fossil fuel extraction business would prefer that we didn't, and lie about it a lot, and gullible suckers like you take them seriously.

    Hey, the bottom line is renewables = unreliable, whether it is solar or wind. Europe find this out to their dismay when the wind stopped blowing (NO, the wind does NOT necessarily blow at night, you idiot).

    I didn't say that the wind necessarily blows at night. It just doesn't stop blowing reliably in the way that sun stops shining every night.

    Europe has been coping for years with the fact that the wind stops blowing - in some places - from time to time. Their big high voltage links between the European countrie to sell power to one another is one of the devices they use to cope. Grid
    storage is an other solution, but that hasn't been exploited to the same extent, so far.

    Geographical "averaging" requires an expanded grid, which isn't there at this time and not for the foreseeable future given Joe Biden's TOTAL LACK OF A PLAN to implement it.

    You've already got one. Electric vehicles are going to means that it needs to shift more current than the current grid, but that's manageable, even if you can't understand how.

    Renewables can certainly be PART of a total energy solution, but NOT the ONLY source.
    If the energy source isn't renewable, it isn't a long term solution. You don't seem to have thought about this all that carefully.

    Today California issued an emergency energy alert, indicating that rolling blackouts are in the cards (https://www.newsweek.com/california-heat-wave-update-record-temperatures-blackouts-1738463).

    That's what happens when you ignore anthropogenic global warming and don't boost your generating capacity to cope with the predictable extra loading from air-conditioners during hot spells.

    California is the canary in the coal mines (how ironic!) for what is to come. They are trying to buy "green" power to supplement their woefully inadequate generation capacity which is DROPPING when it should be EXPANDING. They admit that they may have
    to resort to fossil fuel powered generators if worse comes to worse.

    They probably will. The US is full of people you, who go in for wishful thinking, rather than putting in the time it takes to understand what is actually going on.

    Quite a few of them go as far as you and deliberately ignore reality because it doesn't fit with what they want to believe.

    Not that there's a lot of deliberation going on.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Fri Sep 2 19:52:17 2022
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 10:28:16 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 2:18:59 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 12:04:25 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 2:12:50 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:14:17 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 1:50:03 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:33:54 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    It's blindingly obvious that the extra power is going to come from solar cells and wind turbines - they are the cheapest sources of power available, and electric vehicle don't care when they get charged so the intermittent nature of the
    power delivery is less of a problem for them than it is for many grid customers.

    BLIND aptly describes you and the rest of the greenies. Those sources are UNRELIABLE and must be backed up with RELIABLE power sources, such as nuke plants. It is painfully obvious that OZ has NO NUKE PLANTS, so MUST use fossil fuel as
    backups.

    This is the usual fossil fuel propaganda line. Solar cells don' t produce any output overnight, so you would need grid storage to cover that. Solar cells produce less output on cloudy days, so you need geographical averaging and decent sized
    grid to average that out. Wind turbines are also variable sources, but the wind does keep blowing at night. You need excess potential generating capacity so that you can recharge the grid storage quickly after it gets depleted, but you can certainly get
    by without nuclear plants and fossil-fuel-powered generators. The fossil fuel extraction business would prefer that we didn't, and lie about it a lot, and gullible suckers like you take them seriously.

    Hey, the bottom line is renewables = unreliable, whether it is solar or wind. Europe find this out to their dismay when the wind stopped blowing (NO, the wind does NOT necessarily blow at night, you idiot).

    I didn't say that the wind necessarily blows at night. It just doesn't stop blowing reliably in the way that sun stops shining every night.

    Europe has been coping for years with the fact that the wind stops blowing - in some places - from time to time. Their big high voltage links between the European countrie to sell power to one another is one of the devices they use to cope. Grid
    storage is an other solution, but that hasn't been exploited to the same extent, so far.

    Geographical "averaging" requires an expanded grid, which isn't there at this time and not for the foreseeable future given Joe Biden's TOTAL LACK OF A PLAN to implement it.

    You've already got one. Electric vehicles are going to means that it needs to shift more current than the current grid, but that's manageable, even if you can't understand how.

    Renewables can certainly be PART of a total energy solution, but NOT the ONLY source.
    If the energy source isn't renewable, it isn't a long term solution. You don't seem to have thought about this all that carefully.

    Today California issued an emergency energy alert, indicating that rolling blackouts are in the cards (https://www.newsweek.com/california-heat-wave-update-record-temperatures-blackouts-1738463).

    That's what happens when you ignore anthropogenic global warming and don't boost your generating capacity to cope with the predictable extra loading from air-conditioners during hot spells.

    LOL! You admitted you can't PROVE that the warming is anthropogenic. CA hasn't been "boosting" their generation capacity for some time - in fact they have been taking capacity off line, depending upon others for electricity. Yet, CA is MANDATING electric
    cars even as they tell everyone to STOP CHARGING THEM! This isn't isolated to CA - it is just a harbinger of what is to come!

    California is the canary in the coal mines (how ironic!) for what is to come. They are trying to buy "green" power to supplement their woefully inadequate generation capacity which is DROPPING when it should be EXPANDING. They admit that they may
    have to resort to fossil fuel powered generators if worse comes to worse.
    They probably will. The US is full of people you, who go in for wishful thinking, rather than putting in the time it takes to understand what is actually going on.

    Well, you SURE AS HELL have been resorting to "wishful thinking," declaring that green power is the ONLY way to go.


    Quite a few of them go as far as you and deliberately ignore reality because it doesn't fit with what they want to believe.

    You should be aware of what is happening in OZ - it is NOT what you think it is.


    Not that there's a lot of deliberation going on.

    Sure not from you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Fri Sep 2 20:18:49 2022
    On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 12:52:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 10:28:16 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 2:18:59 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 12:04:25 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 2:12:50 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:14:17 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 1:50:03 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:33:54 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>

    Geographical "averaging" requires an expanded grid, which isn't there at this time and not for the foreseeable future given Joe Biden's TOTAL LACK OF A PLAN to implement it.

    You've already got one. Electric vehicles are going to means that it needs to shift more current than the current grid, but that's manageable, even if you can't understand how.

    Renewables can certainly be PART of a total energy solution, but NOT the ONLY source.

    If the energy source isn't renewable, it isn't a long term solution. You don't seem to have thought about this all that carefully.

    Today California issued an emergency energy alert, indicating that rolling blackouts are in the cards (https://www.newsweek.com/california-heat-wave-update-record-temperatures-blackouts-1738463).

    That's what happens when you ignore anthropogenic global warming and don't boost your generating capacity to cope with the predictable extra loading from air-conditioners during hot spells.

    LOL! You admitted you can't PROVE that the warming is anthropogenic.

    Only in the sense that a mathematical proof is impossible. It happens that the evidence demonstrates that the warming we are seeing is exactly what you'd expect from the rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere, which we've been measuring accurately and
    continuously since 1958. The actual warming we see fluctuates a bit as the ocean currents move around - El Nino versus La Nina and the Atlantic multi-decadal oscillation amongst others.

    No other hypothesis is even vaguely plausible, which doesn't stop the climate change denial propaganda machine from lying about them.

    CA hasn't been "boosting" their generation capacity for some time - in fact they have been taking capacity off line, depending upon others for electricity. Yet, CA is MANDATING electric cars even as they tell everyone to STOP CHARGING THEM! This isn't
    isolated to CA - it is just a harbinger of what is to come!

    The US does seem to be over-supplied with idiots. You are depressing over-represented amongst the people who post here.
    Happily, people who do know what they are doing can get around them.

    California is the canary in the coal mines (how ironic!) for what is to come. They are trying to buy "green" power to supplement their woefully inadequate generation capacity which is DROPPING when it should be EXPANDING. They admit that they may
    have to resort to fossil fuel powered generators if worse comes to worse.

    They probably will. The US is full of people you, who go in for wishful thinking, rather than putting in the time it takes to understand what is actually going on.

    Well, you SURE AS HELL have been resorting to "wishful thinking," declaring that green power is the ONLY way to go.

    Your confidence is misplaced.

    Quite a few of them go as far as you and deliberately ignore reality because it doesn't fit with what they want to believe.

    You should be aware of what is happening in OZ - it is NOT what you think it is.

    But you can't tell me what is actually going on in Australia, and if you were silly enough to spell out your deluded misapprehensions, I'd make mince-meat of you silly ideas.

    Not that there's a lot of deliberation going on.

    Sure not from you.

    How would you know?

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Flyguy@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sat Sep 3 23:04:52 2022
    On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 8:18:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 12:52:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 10:28:16 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 2:18:59 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 12:04:25 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 2:12:50 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:14:17 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 1:50:03 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:33:54 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:34:41 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Tuesday, August 23, 2022 at 10:58:09 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 2:30:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 11:17:40 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:48:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 10:23:28 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 3:04:37 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 5:13:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 22, 2022 at 8:42:27 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 9:55:41 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Sunday, August 21, 2022 at 8:06:38 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 19, 2022 at 8:52:21 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 2:44:37 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 11:22:05 PM UTC-7, whit3rd wrote:
    On Thursday, August 18, 2022 at 10:13:56 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    <snip>
    Geographical "averaging" requires an expanded grid, which isn't there at this time and not for the foreseeable future given Joe Biden's TOTAL LACK OF A PLAN to implement it.

    You've already got one. Electric vehicles are going to means that it needs to shift more current than the current grid, but that's manageable, even if you can't understand how.

    Renewables can certainly be PART of a total energy solution, but NOT the ONLY source.

    If the energy source isn't renewable, it isn't a long term solution. You don't seem to have thought about this all that carefully.

    Today California issued an emergency energy alert, indicating that rolling blackouts are in the cards (https://www.newsweek.com/california-heat-wave-update-record-temperatures-blackouts-1738463).

    That's what happens when you ignore anthropogenic global warming and don't boost your generating capacity to cope with the predictable extra loading from air-conditioners during hot spells.

    LOL! You admitted you can't PROVE that the warming is anthropogenic.
    Only in the sense that a mathematical proof is impossible. It happens that the evidence demonstrates that the warming we are seeing is exactly what you'd expect from the rising CO2 levels in the atmosphere, which we've been measuring accurately and
    continuously since 1958. The actual warming we see fluctuates a bit as the ocean currents move around - El Nino versus La Nina and the Atlantic multi-decadal oscillation amongst others.

    The "evidence" doesn't "demonstrate" a DAMN THING! If anything the evidence demonstrates that CO2 IS NOT the cause of global warming:
    https://www.usnews.com/news/blogs/washington-whispers/2009/10/07/scientist-carbon-dioxide-doesnt-cause-global-warming
    And https://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/download?doi=10.1.1.548.9278&rep=rep1&type=pdf

    "The human effect on the Earth’s climate is usually evaluated based on the emotional perception of the fact that greenhouse gases absorb heat of radiation. One can estimate the quantitative effect of anthropogenic carbon dioxide releases into the Earth
    s atmosphere on the climate applying the
    diabatic theory of the greenhouse effect. Various estimates of the current carbon dioxide releases
    due to burning of natural fuels are on the order of 7–10 billion tons or 1.9–2.7 billion tons of carbon per year. This large amount of CO2 not only changes the composition of the atmospheric gas mixture and decreases its heat absorbing capacity, but
    also slightly increases the atmospheric pressure. These two factors operate in the opposite directions. As a result, the average atmospheric temperature of the Earth is barely affected."

    "For instance, under the doubled carbon dioxide concentration in the Earth’s atmosphere from 0.046 to 0.092 mass % (as anticipated by the year 2100), the pressure increase Δps would reach 0.46 mbar. Using Eq. 7, ΔTs ≅ +0.025C"


    No other hypothesis is even vaguely plausible, which doesn't stop the climate change denial propaganda machine from lying about them.

    So says the Bozo that can't even offer proof of the same. Earth's temperature has undergone dramatic changes w/o the presence of humans.

    CA hasn't been "boosting" their generation capacity for some time - in fact they have been taking capacity off line, depending upon others for electricity. Yet, CA is MANDATING electric cars even as they tell everyone to STOP CHARGING THEM! This isn'
    t isolated to CA - it is just a harbinger of what is to come!
    The US does seem to be over-supplied with idiots. You are depressing over-represented amongst the people who post here.

    Yeah, and as shown by an over-representation on the Nobel winners list.

    Happily, people who do know what they are doing can get around them.

    As if OZ is on the Nobel list.

    California is the canary in the coal mines (how ironic!) for what is to come. They are trying to buy "green" power to supplement their woefully inadequate generation capacity which is DROPPING when it should be EXPANDING. They admit that they may
    have to resort to fossil fuel powered generators if worse comes to worse.

    They probably will. The US is full of people you, who go in for wishful thinking, rather than putting in the time it takes to understand what is actually going on.

    Well, you SURE AS HELL have been resorting to "wishful thinking," declaring that green power is the ONLY way to go.
    Your confidence is misplaced.

    No, YOUR "confidence" is misplaced.

    Quite a few of them go as far as you and deliberately ignore reality because it doesn't fit with what they want to believe.

    You should be aware of what is happening in OZ - it is NOT what you think it is.
    But you can't tell me what is actually going on in Australia, and if you were silly enough to spell out your deluded misapprehensions, I'd make mince-meat of you silly ideas.

    Hey, Bozo, YOU tell me - you ARE the self-declared know-it-all.

    Not that there's a lot of deliberation going on.

    Sure not from you.
    How would you know?

    Reading YOUR DRIVEL!!!!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Sep 4 00:02:54 2022
    On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 11:04:57 PM UTC-7, Flyguy wrote:

    "The human effect on the Earth’s climate is usually evaluated based on the emotional perception of the fact that greenhouse gases absorb heat of radiation.

    ?huh? What the heck is 'emotional perception' of
    a fact about opacity of a gas? That's incoherent babble.

    One can estimate the quantitative effect of anthropogenic carbon dioxide releases into the Earth’s atmosphere on the climate applying the
    diabatic theory of the greenhouse effect.

    Yeah, what the hell is 'equation 7' anyway? It's a compression-of-gas-causes-heating formula,
    and that compression of gas doesn't change the equilibrium equation at all, because any compression
    just changes the heat capacity of the atmosphere a bit. A month later, or a year later, that thermal bump
    is GONE, not accumulated for the century. It's a rookie calculation mistake.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Flyguy on Sun Sep 4 03:19:43 2022
    On Sunday, September 4, 2022 at 4:04:57 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, September 2, 2022 at 8:18:53 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, September 3, 2022 at 12:52:21 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 10:28:16 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, September 1, 2022 at 2:18:59 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 12:04:25 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 31, 2022 at 2:12:50 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 7:14:17 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 1:50:03 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Sunday, August 28, 2022 at 8:33:54 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Monday, August 29, 2022 at 11:00:34 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 1:18:34 AM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 4:31:06 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 10:17:43 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 2:14:58 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 9:09:49 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 12:54:24 PM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 5:33:22 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Friday, August 26, 2022 at 9:43:03 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 7:17:13 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022 at 11:46:58 AM UTC+10, Flyguy wrote:
    On Wednesday, August 24, 2022 at 5:42:36 PM UTC-7, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Thursday, August 25, 2022