• Newly published evidence points to Wuhan seafood market as pandemic ori

    From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 29 15:28:36 2022
    "We do have one analysis where we show essentially that the chance of having this pattern of cases [clustered around the market] is 1 in 10 million [if the market isn't a source of the virus]. We consider that strong evidence in science."- lead
    investigator

    Apparently raccoon dogs and red fox can be infected by and shed SARS-CoV-2, and there is ample evidence those species were in the market.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/03/03/1083751272/striking-new-evidence-points-to-seafood-market-in-wuhan-as-pandemic-origin-point

    Those wildlife markets are the most horrendously disgusting places on Earth.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com on Fri Jul 29 15:37:28 2022
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 15:28:36 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    "We do have one analysis where we show essentially that the chance of having this pattern of cases [clustered around the market] is 1 in 10 million [if the market isn't a source of the virus]. We consider that strong evidence in science."- lead
    investigator

    Maybe the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself shopped at the
    market.

    There were also stories of lab animals being sold in the wet market.

    Of the tens of thousands of wet markets in china, is it a coincidence
    that the one within walking distance to a lab, doing poorly managed
    research on bat viruses, was the origin? Absurd.

    There is so much energy expended to deny the possibility that
    gain-of-function research on bat viruses could have gone wrong.

    Why?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Fri Jul 29 15:53:15 2022
    On Saturday, 30 July 2022 at 00:28:39 UTC+2, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    "We do have one analysis where we show essentially that the chance of having this pattern of cases [clustered around the market] is 1 in 10 million [if the market isn't a source of the virus]. We consider that strong evidence in science."- lead
    investigator

    Apparently raccoon dogs and red fox can be infected by and shed SARS-CoV-2, and there is ample evidence those species were in the market.

    https://www.npr.org/sections/goatsandsoda/2022/03/03/1083751272/striking-new-evidence-points-to-seafood-market-in-wuhan-as-pandemic-origin-point

    Those wildlife markets are the most horrendously disgusting places on Earth.
    stop your fake

    We have studied at WHO the origin and the spread of the COVID19 plague world-wide

    and tourists from USA, Canada, Europe (Norway) traveling on cruise ships
    up the Yangtze River
    visited caves in the mountains inhabited by bats infected with coronaviruses and on the return trip
    tourists disembarked in Wuhan and visited seafood market
    bringing coronaviruses to local people

    and on return trip to USA, Canada, Europe,
    tourists visited Venice and traveled to some distanet location by buses
    and spread coviod19 to local people and among other foreign tourists

    Cruise ships feature faulty ventilation system
    and air from the first cabin on board is pumped into the 2nd and the next and through all the cabins

    And when the first cabin was occupied by an infected person
    he/she infected the entire deck during the 2 week voyage



    We surveyed the routes of all the cruise ships that sailed down the Yangtze River through Wuhan, upriver and back again

    And we counted the number of infected people on the ships, as reported by health agencies, cruise ship by ship.

    Since cruise ships from Norway started operations last week and tourists boarding the ship don't get tested.

    Infected tourists brind covid19 to every port visited, every location visited by tourists on the land,
    making covid19 disaster to never end

    China banned cruise ships to enter China

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 29 18:58:16 2022
    On 7/29/2022 6:37 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 15:28:36 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    "We do have one analysis where we show essentially that the chance of having this pattern of cases [clustered around the market] is 1 in 10 million [if the market isn't a source of the virus]. We consider that strong evidence in science."- lead
    investigator

    Maybe the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself shopped at the
    market.

    There were also stories of lab animals being sold in the wet market.

    Of the tens of thousands of wet markets in china, is it a coincidence
    that the one within walking distance to a lab, doing poorly managed
    research on bat viruses, was the origin? Absurd.

    More absurd that the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself went
    straight to a wet market afterwards rather than rode a train, or went to
    a nightclub, or a soccer game, or..

    There is so much energy expended to deny the possibility that gain-of-function research on bat viruses could have gone wrong.

    Why?


    Cuz the evidence for it sucks

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 29 16:05:33 2022
    On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 6:37:38 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 15:28:36 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    "We do have one analysis where we show essentially that the chance of having this pattern of cases [clustered around the market] is 1 in 10 million [if the market isn't a source of the virus]. We consider that strong evidence in science."- lead
    investigator
    Maybe the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself shopped at the
    market.

    There were also stories of lab animals being sold in the wet market.

    Of the tens of thousands of wet markets in china, is it a coincidence
    that the one within walking distance to a lab, doing poorly managed
    research on bat viruses, was the origin? Absurd.

    There is so much energy expended to deny the possibility that gain-of-function research on bat viruses could have gone wrong.

    First of all, the Chinese just didn't have the skills to engineer a human virus from a bat virus. With the exception of the one lunatic at NC State ( or wherever he worked) no one in America could either.

    They have certain proof of all the different types of animals that were in the market, and two species have been tested as susceptible to infection by SARS-CoV-2, which means they can host the virus . Maybe the lab worker sneezed on them. Who knows...
    What we do know is bats don't host SARS-CoV-2 if I'm reading this right: https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-022-04532-4
    - so the locals can chow down on as much lab bat meat as they want with reckless abandon and remain virus free.



    Why?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 29 17:03:14 2022
    On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 7:50:00 PM UTC-4, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 18:58:16 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/29/2022 6:37 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 15:28:36 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    "We do have one analysis where we show essentially that the chance of having this pattern of cases [clustered around the market] is 1 in 10 million [if the market isn't a source of the virus]. We consider that strong evidence in science."- lead
    investigator

    Maybe the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself shopped at the
    market.

    There were also stories of lab animals being sold in the wet market.

    Of the tens of thousands of wet markets in china, is it a coincidence
    that the one within walking distance to a lab, doing poorly managed
    research on bat viruses, was the origin? Absurd.

    More absurd that the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself went
    straight to a wet market afterwards rather than rode a train, or went to
    a nightclub, or a soccer game, or..
    After exposure to a virus, people are not infectuous immediately. It
    could take days to get going.

    There is so much energy expended to deny the possibility that
    gain-of-function research on bat viruses could have gone wrong.

    Why?


    Cuz the evidence for it sucks
    Certainly. The Chinese aren't being very candid. But so many people
    are helping them explain it away. Why?

    They were closely cooperating with American scientists studying zoonotic transfer of disease from wildlife to humans in preparation for a future pandemic. What happens in China doesn't stay in China, it will come here eventually.

    Hmmm..."Six out of every 10 infectious diseases in people are zoonotic, which makes it crucial that the nation strengthen its capabilities to prevent and respond to these diseases using a One Health approach."
    https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2019/s0506-zoonotic-diseases-shared.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bitrex on Fri Jul 29 16:49:51 2022
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 18:58:16 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/29/2022 6:37 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 15:28:36 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    "We do have one analysis where we show essentially that the chance of having this pattern of cases [clustered around the market] is 1 in 10 million [if the market isn't a source of the virus]. We consider that strong evidence in science."- lead
    investigator

    Maybe the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself shopped at the
    market.

    There were also stories of lab animals being sold in the wet market.

    Of the tens of thousands of wet markets in china, is it a coincidence
    that the one within walking distance to a lab, doing poorly managed
    research on bat viruses, was the origin? Absurd.

    More absurd that the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself went
    straight to a wet market afterwards rather than rode a train, or went to
    a nightclub, or a soccer game, or..

    After exposure to a virus, people are not infectuous immediately. It
    could take days to get going.


    There is so much energy expended to deny the possibility that
    gain-of-function research on bat viruses could have gone wrong.

    Why?


    Cuz the evidence for it sucks

    Certainly. The Chinese aren't being very candid. But so many people
    are helping them explain it away. Why?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 29 16:16:28 2022
    On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 3:37:38 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 15:28:36 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    "We do have one analysis where we show essentially that the chance of having this pattern of cases [clustered around the market] is 1 in 10 million [if the market isn't a source of the virus]. We consider that strong evidence in science."- lead
    investigator
    Maybe the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself shopped at the
    market.

    Lab techs don't do that.

    Of the tens of thousands of wet markets in china, is it a coincidence
    that the one within walking distance to a lab, doing poorly managed
    research on bat viruses, was the origin? Absurd.

    The COVID-19 is NOT a bat virus, though it shares a common ancestor.

    If your pet theory needs the protection of repeated falsehoods,
    science offers a solution: euthanize that pet.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Les Cargill@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 29 22:23:43 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    <snip>

    Certainly. The Chinese aren't being very candid. But so many people
    are helping them explain it away. Why?



    I expect it's been a pattern from other flu like virii. In ther
    absence of facts what's left is narrative.

    At this point; machts nicht. I got a call tonite from somebody who
    tested positive; of advanced ( > 60 ) years and it weren't nothing.

    Our stories probably hurt us worse than the thing itself.

    --
    Les Cargill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Les Cargill@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 29 22:19:53 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 15:28:36 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    "We do have one analysis where we show essentially that the chance of having this pattern of cases [clustered around the market] is 1 in 10 million [if the market isn't a source of the virus]. We consider that strong evidence in science."- lead
    investigator

    Maybe the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself shopped at the
    market.

    There were also stories of lab animals being sold in the wet market.

    Of the tens of thousands of wet markets in china, is it a coincidence
    that the one within walking distance to a lab, doing poorly managed
    research on bat viruses, was the origin? Absurd.

    There is so much energy expended to deny the possibility that gain-of-function research on bat viruses could have gone wrong.

    Why?


    One theory of the 1918 flu epidemic is that people at a military
    base in Kansas burned a lot of cow poop and this was then ground zero
    for the epidemic.

    I didn't hear about this until at least 90 years after the actual event.

    100 years would be closer.

    It just takes a long time to settle the stories out. Trying to get
    in front of it is risky.

    --
    Les Cargill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to Les Cargill on Sat Jul 30 05:49:09 2022
    On Saturday, 30 July 2022 at 05:23:51 UTC+2, Les Cargill wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    <snip>

    Certainly. The Chinese aren't being very candid. But so many people
    are helping them explain it away. Why?


    I expect it's been a pattern from other flu like virii. In ther
    absence of facts what's left is narrative.

    At this point; machts nicht. I got a call tonite from somebody who
    tested positive; of advanced ( > 60 ) years and it weren't nothing.

    Our stories probably hurt us worse than the thing itself.

    --
    Les Cargill
    Your theories make no sense
    never board the cruise ship if you plan to live 100 years #StopAgeing

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 30 06:28:45 2022
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:23:43 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargil99@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    <snip>

    Certainly. The Chinese aren't being very candid. But so many people
    are helping them explain it away. Why?



    I expect it's been a pattern from other flu like virii. In ther
    absence of facts what's left is narrative.

    At this point; machts nicht. I got a call tonite from somebody who
    tested positive; of advanced ( > 60 ) years and it weren't nothing.

    Our stories probably hurt us worse than the thing itself.

    The isolation and shutdowns probably killed more people than the
    virus. And may have contributed to the new mutations by stretching the
    pandemic out in time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sat Jul 30 06:37:58 2022
    On Saturday, 30 July 2022 at 15:28:56 UTC+2, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:23:43 -0500, Les Cargill <lcar...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    <snip>

    Certainly. The Chinese aren't being very candid. But so many people
    are helping them explain it away. Why?



    I expect it's been a pattern from other flu like virii. In ther
    absence of facts what's left is narrative.

    At this point; machts nicht. I got a call tonite from somebody who
    tested positive; of advanced ( > 60 ) years and it weren't nothing.

    Our stories probably hurt us worse than the thing itself.
    The isolation and shutdowns probably killed more people than the
    virus. And may have contributed to the new mutations by stretching the pandemic out in time.
    fake

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sat Jul 30 07:29:54 2022
    On Saturday, July 30, 2022 at 11:28:56 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:23:43 -0500, Les Cargill <lcar...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    <snip>

    Certainly. The Chinese aren't being very candid. But so many people
    are helping them explain it away. Why?

    I expect it's been a pattern from other flu like virii. In ther
    absence of facts what's left is narrative.

    At this point; machts nicht. I got a call tonite from somebody who
    tested positive; of advanced ( > 60 ) years and it weren't nothing.

    Our stories probably hurt us worse than the thing itself.

    Covid-19 seems to have killed 1,055,020 Americans so far. "Stories" don't seem to be up to killing nearly that many people.

    The isolation and shutdowns probably killed more people than the virus.

    Twaddle. It's not the leading cause of death around the world, but reported statistics place it as the fourth most common cause of death and if you make sensible estimates of the extent to which it is under-counted, it looks as if it may be the second
    most probable cause of death around the world. It has been nasty, particuarly for elderly people.

    https://www.thinkglobalhealth.org/article/just-how-do-deaths-due-covid-19-stack

    And may have contributed to the new mutations by stretching the pandemic out in time.

    The new mutations happen when the virus infects new victims, and multiplies. "Stretching out the pandemic" in terms of the total number of people infected, does offer the opportunity for more mutations to show up but elapsed time - as such - doesn't
    enter into it.

    The most effective way of minimising the number of mutations would have been to feed Covid-19 vaccine into the countries - like south Africa - that had a lot of infections. My first and second booster doses of vaccine would have stopped a whole lot
    more mutations if they gone into people who were more likely to get infected than I was. The vaccine doesn't stop infection, but it makes it less likely, and it shortens the course of the disease in most of the people who have been vaccinated, reducing
    the number of times the virus reproduces and gets a chance to mutate.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to Les Cargill on Sat Jul 30 08:00:47 2022
    On Friday, July 29, 2022 at 11:20:01 PM UTC-4, Les Cargill wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 15:28:36 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    "We do have one analysis where we show essentially that the chance of having this pattern of cases [clustered around the market] is 1 in 10 million [if the market isn't a source of the virus]. We consider that strong evidence in science."- lead
    investigator

    Maybe the lab tech who spilled viruses on herself shopped at the
    market.

    There were also stories of lab animals being sold in the wet market.

    Of the tens of thousands of wet markets in china, is it a coincidence
    that the one within walking distance to a lab, doing poorly managed research on bat viruses, was the origin? Absurd.

    There is so much energy expended to deny the possibility that gain-of-function research on bat viruses could have gone wrong.

    Why?

    One theory of the 1918 flu epidemic is that people at a military
    base in Kansas burned a lot of cow poop and this was then ground zero
    for the epidemic.

    I didn't hear about this until at least 90 years after the actual event.

    100 years would be closer.

    It just takes a long time to settle the stories out. Trying to get
    in front of it is risky.

    If the so-called theory does not originate with a seasoned and proven medical researcher, it is probably total bullshit.

    Turns out the epidemiological studies performed at the time by very gifted researchers, some of whom later won Nobel prizes for other work, were extraordinarily comprehensive and dead on.

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC340389/

    The MD providing care to Haskell County residents recorded his first cases in January 1918. Transmission pig-to-pig and pig-to-human was exacerbated by the fact that pigs must be kept indoors and warm during cold weather, especially in Kansas which used
    to get biting cold. Ventilation was bad and the air was full of infectious droplets. And not every pig farmer is a genius.

    https://www.ksre.k-state.edu/historicpublications/pubs/SB243.pdf

    Pigs are contracting and mutating influenza all the time. Even to this day there are cases of pig transmitting variant influenza to humans, and these cases are investigated by CDC which is tasked with surveilling this specific transmission.

    https://www.cdc.gov/flu/swineflu/influenza-in-swine.htm

    The same caliber of epidemiological expertise was brought to bear on the Wuhan investigation. Believe it.



    --
    Les Cargill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Les Cargill@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Aug 12 20:07:01 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:23:43 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargil99@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    <snip>

    Certainly. The Chinese aren't being very candid. But so many people
    are helping them explain it away. Why?



    I expect it's been a pattern from other flu like virii. In ther
    absence of facts what's left is narrative.

    At this point; machts nicht. I got a call tonite from somebody who
    tested positive; of advanced ( > 60 ) years and it weren't nothing.

    Our stories probably hurt us worse than the thing itself.

    The isolation and shutdowns probably killed more people than the
    virus. And may have contributed to the new mutations by stretching the pandemic out in time.


    We'll never actually know. There's no baseline.

    --
    Les Cargill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Les Cargill on Fri Aug 12 18:42:07 2022
    On Saturday, August 13, 2022 at 11:07:09 AM UTC+10, Les Cargill wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 22:23:43 -0500, Les Cargill <lcar...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    <snip>

    Certainly. The Chinese aren't being very candid. But so many people
    are helping them explain it away. Why?



    I expect it's been a pattern from other flu like virii. In ther
    absence of facts what's left is narrative.

    At this point; machts nicht. I got a call tonite from somebody who
    tested positive; of advanced ( > 60 ) years and it weren't nothing.

    Our stories probably hurt us worse than the thing itself.

    The isolation and shutdowns probably killed more people than the
    virus. And may have contributed to the new mutations by stretching the pandemic out in time.

    We'll never actually know. There's no baseline.

    There are average numbers of deaths per year and causes of death on death certificates.

    https://www.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/covid-19-was-third-leading-cause-death-united-states-both-2020-2021

    It killed about one in eight of those that died. It seems unlikely that the anti-Covid precautions killed more people than that

    There was excess mortality in that period - typically around 20% in the US - but most of the excess seem to have died of Covid-19 rather than from imaginary side-effects of the precautions against getting infected by Covid-19

    https://ourworldindata.org/excess-mortality-covid

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)