• programmable resistors?

    From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 29 06:17:01 2022
    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

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  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Fri Jul 29 07:24:49 2022
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated resistor?

    Some people do that with lots of resistors and relays, but electronic
    is more interesting.

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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 29 11:34:18 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated

    wideband

    resistor?

    Some people do that with lots of resistors and relays, but electronic
    is more interesting.


    Interestingly, Murata will make custom laser-trimmed metal film resistor
    arrays for pretty cheap. We're looking at using them in our next
    generation variable-gain amplifier box.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

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  • From Don@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Fri Jul 29 16:59:13 2022
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    programmable resistors?
    <https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm>

    The working mechanism of the device is electrochemical
    insertion of the smallest ion, the proton, into an
    insulating oxide to modulate its electronic conductivity.

    At this stage, protonic resistor research reminds me of nascence OLED
    papers from 1990s. Sciencedaily's story source is an MIT press release:

    <https://news.mit.edu/2022/analog-deep-learning-ai-computing-0728>

    It's time for me to return to my RPi2 BSD port of your OLED project. :)

    Danke,

    --
    Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
    There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
    She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

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  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Fri Jul 29 11:35:32 2022
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:34:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar
    reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated

    wideband

    Kilohertz, to simulate RTDs mostly. A user might scan/mux RTDs and
    might mux the excitation too, so we want sub-millisecond response but
    not RF.

    Circuit puzzle: How do you make an electronic wide-range bipolar
    programmable resistor, say 0.1% accurate?


    resistor?

    Some people do that with lots of resistors and relays, but electronic
    is more interesting.


    Interestingly, Murata will make custom laser-trimmed metal film resistor >arrays for pretty cheap. We're looking at using them in our next
    generation variable-gain amplifier box.

    We just ordered some stock quad 100K thinfilm packs, about 30 cents
    each. You can make a mess of various values and dividers and opamp
    gains from one quad pack.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 29 14:50:31 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:34:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar
    reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated

    wideband

    Kilohertz, to simulate RTDs mostly. A user might scan/mux RTDs and
    might mux the excitation too, so we want sub-millisecond response but
    not RF.

    Circuit puzzle: How do you make an electronic wide-range bipolar
    programmable resistor, say 0.1% accurate?


    resistor?

    Some people do that with lots of resistors and relays, but electronic
    is more interesting.


    Interestingly, Murata will make custom laser-trimmed metal film resistor
    arrays for pretty cheap. We're looking at using them in our next
    generation variable-gain amplifier box.

    Probably a binary version of a resistor substitution box. Details
    obviously depend a lot on the voltage range required.

    We just ordered some stock quad 100K thinfilm packs, about 30 cents
    each. You can make a mess of various values and dividers and opamp
    gains from one quad pack.

    Yup. Our VGA gizmos use MDACs and switched resistors in various
    combinations, depending on the bandwidth required. The point of them is
    that the usual transconductance-based VCAs have really terrible noise performance for larger signals. (Barrie Gilbert patented an idea for
    using a whole lot of BJT pairs with their inputs wired in series to
    improve this, but you can't buy any like that now.)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

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  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Fri Jul 29 15:21:28 2022
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 14:50:31 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:34:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar
    reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated

    wideband

    Kilohertz, to simulate RTDs mostly. A user might scan/mux RTDs and
    might mux the excitation too, so we want sub-millisecond response but
    not RF.

    Circuit puzzle: How do you make an electronic wide-range bipolar
    programmable resistor, say 0.1% accurate?


    resistor?

    Some people do that with lots of resistors and relays, but electronic
    is more interesting.


    Interestingly, Murata will make custom laser-trimmed metal film resistor >>> arrays for pretty cheap. We're looking at using them in our next
    generation variable-gain amplifier box.

    Probably a binary version of a resistor substitution box. Details
    obviously depend a lot on the voltage range required.

    Oh, another requirement is that resistance changes be monotonic and glitch-free. An RTD simulator souldn't spike to 300C when it's
    supposed to go from 25.2 to 25.3. Relay switched resistors have that
    problem.

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  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 29 15:45:06 2022
    fredag den 29. juli 2022 kl. 16.24.59 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated resistor?

    motorized potentiometer? :P

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 29 20:11:46 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 14:50:31 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:34:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar
    reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated

    wideband

    Kilohertz, to simulate RTDs mostly. A user might scan/mux RTDs and
    might mux the excitation too, so we want sub-millisecond response but
    not RF.

    Circuit puzzle: How do you make an electronic wide-range bipolar
    programmable resistor, say 0.1% accurate?


    resistor?

    Some people do that with lots of resistors and relays, but electronic >>>>> is more interesting.


    Interestingly, Murata will make custom laser-trimmed metal film resistor >>>> arrays for pretty cheap. We're looking at using them in our next
    generation variable-gain amplifier box.

    Probably a binary version of a resistor substitution box. Details
    obviously depend a lot on the voltage range required.

    Oh, another requirement is that resistance changes be monotonic and glitch-free. An RTD simulator souldn't spike to 300C when it's
    supposed to go from 25.2 to 25.3. Relay switched resistors have that
    problem.

    That's not so hard at kilohertz speeds--you can filter out the mux spikes.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 30 01:20:50 2022
    lørdag den 30. juli 2022 kl. 02.12.00 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 14:50:31 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:34:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar
    reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated

    wideband

    Kilohertz, to simulate RTDs mostly. A user might scan/mux RTDs and
    might mux the excitation too, so we want sub-millisecond response but >>> not RF.

    Circuit puzzle: How do you make an electronic wide-range bipolar
    programmable resistor, say 0.1% accurate?


    resistor?

    Some people do that with lots of resistors and relays, but electronic >>>>> is more interesting.


    Interestingly, Murata will make custom laser-trimmed metal film resistor
    arrays for pretty cheap. We're looking at using them in our next
    generation variable-gain amplifier box.

    Probably a binary version of a resistor substitution box. Details
    obviously depend a lot on the voltage range required.

    Oh, another requirement is that resistance changes be monotonic and glitch-free. An RTD simulator souldn't spike to 300C when it's
    supposed to go from 25.2 to 25.3. Relay switched resistors have that problem.
    That's not so hard at kilohertz speeds--you can filter out the mux spikes.

    with digital pots in audio it is called zipper noise, I believe some of them use the trick of only changing gain in zero crossings

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Sat Jul 30 13:56:38 2022
    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 30. juli 2022 kl. 02.12.00 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 14:50:31 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:34:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar
    reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated

    wideband

    Kilohertz, to simulate RTDs mostly. A user might scan/mux RTDs and
    might mux the excitation too, so we want sub-millisecond response but >>>>> not RF.

    Circuit puzzle: How do you make an electronic wide-range bipolar
    programmable resistor, say 0.1% accurate?


    resistor?

    Some people do that with lots of resistors and relays, but electronic >>>>>>> is more interesting.


    Interestingly, Murata will make custom laser-trimmed metal film resistor >>>>>> arrays for pretty cheap. We're looking at using them in our next
    generation variable-gain amplifier box.

    Probably a binary version of a resistor substitution box. Details
    obviously depend a lot on the voltage range required.

    Oh, another requirement is that resistance changes be monotonic and
    glitch-free. An RTD simulator souldn't spike to 300C when it's
    supposed to go from 25.2 to 25.3. Relay switched resistors have that
    problem.
    That's not so hard at kilohertz speeds--you can filter out the mux spikes.

    with digital pots in audio it is called zipper noise, I believe some of them use the trick of only changing gain in zero crossings


    For kilohertzy things you can use simulated inductors.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to langwadt@fonz.dk on Mon Aug 1 12:10:08 2022
    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 01:20:50 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

    lrdag den 30. juli 2022 kl. 02.12.00 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 14:50:31 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:34:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm

    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar
    reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated

    wideband

    Kilohertz, to simulate RTDs mostly. A user might scan/mux RTDs and
    might mux the excitation too, so we want sub-millisecond response but
    not RF.

    Circuit puzzle: How do you make an electronic wide-range bipolar
    programmable resistor, say 0.1% accurate?


    resistor?

    Some people do that with lots of resistors and relays, but electronic >> >>>>> is more interesting.


    Interestingly, Murata will make custom laser-trimmed metal film resistor
    arrays for pretty cheap. We're looking at using them in our next
    generation variable-gain amplifier box.

    Probably a binary version of a resistor substitution box. Details
    obviously depend a lot on the voltage range required.

    Oh, another requirement is that resistance changes be monotonic and
    glitch-free. An RTD simulator souldn't spike to 300C when it's
    supposed to go from 25.2 to 25.3. Relay switched resistors have that
    problem.
    That's not so hard at kilohertz speeds--you can filter out the mux spikes.

    with digital pots in audio it is called zipper noise, I believe some of them >use the trick of only changing gain in zero crossings

    A resistor simulator that does RTDs can't do that. And can't, as far
    as I can figure, filter out relay transitions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Aug 1 15:48:54 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Sat, 30 Jul 2022 01:20:50 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

    lørdag den 30. juli 2022 kl. 02.12.00 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 14:50:31 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 11:34:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 29 Jul 2022 06:17:01 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    programmable resistors?
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2022/07/220728142923.htm >>>>>>>>
    One real-world problem is, how do you make a wide-range bipolar >>>>>>>> reasonably-wideband accurate low-noise isolated

    wideband

    Kilohertz, to simulate RTDs mostly. A user might scan/mux RTDs and >>>>>> might mux the excitation too, so we want sub-millisecond response but >>>>>> not RF.

    Circuit puzzle: How do you make an electronic wide-range bipolar
    programmable resistor, say 0.1% accurate?


    resistor?

    Some people do that with lots of resistors and relays, but electronic >>>>>>>> is more interesting.


    Interestingly, Murata will make custom laser-trimmed metal film resistor
    arrays for pretty cheap. We're looking at using them in our next >>>>>>> generation variable-gain amplifier box.

    Probably a binary version of a resistor substitution box. Details
    obviously depend a lot on the voltage range required.

    Oh, another requirement is that resistance changes be monotonic and
    glitch-free. An RTD simulator souldn't spike to 300C when it's
    supposed to go from 25.2 to 25.3. Relay switched resistors have that
    problem.
    That's not so hard at kilohertz speeds--you can filter out the mux spikes. >>
    with digital pots in audio it is called zipper noise, I believe some of them >> use the trick of only changing gain in zero crossings

    A resistor simulator that does RTDs can't do that. And can't, as far
    as I can figure, filter out relay transitions.


    Not if it has to look like a resistor at all frequencies, right. But a kilohertzy device could look like a high-Z LC lowpass for nanosecond
    spikes. It would need a floating simulated inductor.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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