• They sounded alarms about a coming Colorado River crisis. But warnings

    From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 28 17:48:57 2022
    This is what happens when government and important function within government become totally politicized.

    All the corrupt old farts who're responsible for this mess are dead and gone.

    Use the whole link: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Sun Jul 31 03:50:45 2022
    On 7/28/2022 5:48 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    This is what happens when government and important function within government become totally politicized.

    All the corrupt old farts who're responsible for this mess are dead and gone.

    Use the whole link: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869

    "Scientists" aren't typically concerned with economics.

    Water drives economic development in the West. If you don't have adequate water supplies, you can't build houses. If you can't build houses, you
    can't support businesses.

    Cities, here, need to ensure a 100yr water supply for bonding. Would
    you lend money to a municipality that is going to "dry up and blow
    away" in 50 years? 30? (who's going to take out a 30yr mortgage on
    a property that has no municipal supports available 50 years hence??)

    Water rights are... weird. It's like saying you have the right to
    use electricity -- but never having to meter your usage! What keeps
    you honest?

    [I used to watch my FinL twiddle the gates in the irrigation canal adjoining his property to divert water across his fields. "How do you know when you've got enough?" "When the far end gets wet!" "Who keeps track of how much
    water you've used?" (puzzled look)]

    We "bank" some of our CAP allotment in the aquifer. What's to stop folks
    with wells from tapping into that? What's to stop folks from drilling (deeper) wells?

    Also, there are laws that effectively prevent you from using water access
    to drive policy. If the golf course wants to use municipal water to
    irrigate their greens, then why shouldn't they be able to? My *neighbor*
    can use it to keep his GRASS LAWN nice and green... why is he any different than the golf course owner?

    This leads to some really stupid behaviors -- like growing cotton in the desert! Or, pecan orchards.

    But, Heaven forbid we curtail *development* to conserve water! Easier to convince residents to drink treated effluent than to risk shutting down
    that economic engine! <rolls eyes>

    Sadly, the rest of the country (and world, for that matter) isn't far
    behind. Water (like many natural resources) has been over-spent for
    too long for there not to be consequences!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Jul 31 05:51:09 2022
    On Sunday, 31 July 2022 at 12:51:01 UTC+2, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/28/2022 5:48 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    This is what happens when government and important function within government become totally politicized.

    All the corrupt old farts who're responsible for this mess are dead and gone.

    Use the whole link: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869
    "Scientists" aren't typically concerned with economics.

    Water drives economic development in the West. If you don't have adequate water supplies, you can't build houses. If you can't build houses, you
    can't support businesses.

    Cities, here, need to ensure a 100yr water supply for bonding. Would
    you lend money to a municipality that is going to "dry up and blow
    away" in 50 years? 30? (who's going to take out a 30yr mortgage on
    a property that has no municipal supports available 50 years hence??)

    Water rights are... weird. It's like saying you have the right to
    use electricity -- but never having to meter your usage! What keeps
    you honest?

    [I used to watch my FinL twiddle the gates in the irrigation canal adjoining his property to divert water across his fields. "How do you know when you've got enough?" "When the far end gets wet!" "Who keeps track of how much
    water you've used?" (puzzled look)]

    We "bank" some of our CAP allotment in the aquifer. What's to stop folks
    with wells from tapping into that? What's to stop folks from drilling (deeper)
    wells?

    Also, there are laws that effectively prevent you from using water access
    to drive policy. If the golf course wants to use municipal water to
    irrigate their greens, then why shouldn't they be able to? My *neighbor*
    can use it to keep his GRASS LAWN nice and green... why is he any different than the golf course owner?

    This leads to some really stupid behaviors -- like growing cotton in the desert! Or, pecan orchards.

    But, Heaven forbid we curtail *development* to conserve water! Easier to convince residents to drink treated effluent than to risk shutting down
    that economic engine! <rolls eyes>

    Sadly, the rest of the country (and world, for that matter) isn't far
    behind. Water (like many natural resources) has been over-spent for
    too long for there not to be consequences!
    no crisis at all
    life is for real
    forget your delusional day dreaming

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to a a on Sun Jul 31 06:58:58 2022
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 8:51:12 AM UTC-4, a a wrote:
    On Sunday, 31 July 2022 at 12:51:01 UTC+2, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/28/2022 5:48 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    This is what happens when government and important function within government become totally politicized.

    All the corrupt old farts who're responsible for this mess are dead and gone.

    Use the whole link: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869
    "Scientists" aren't typically concerned with economics.

    Water drives economic development in the West. If you don't have adequate water supplies, you can't build houses. If you can't build houses, you can't support businesses.

    Cities, here, need to ensure a 100yr water supply for bonding. Would
    you lend money to a municipality that is going to "dry up and blow
    away" in 50 years? 30? (who's going to take out a 30yr mortgage on
    a property that has no municipal supports available 50 years hence??)

    Water rights are... weird. It's like saying you have the right to
    use electricity -- but never having to meter your usage! What keeps
    you honest?

    [I used to watch my FinL twiddle the gates in the irrigation canal adjoining
    his property to divert water across his fields. "How do you know when you've
    got enough?" "When the far end gets wet!" "Who keeps track of how much water you've used?" (puzzled look)]

    We "bank" some of our CAP allotment in the aquifer. What's to stop folks with wells from tapping into that? What's to stop folks from drilling (deeper)
    wells?

    Also, there are laws that effectively prevent you from using water access to drive policy. If the golf course wants to use municipal water to irrigate their greens, then why shouldn't they be able to? My *neighbor* can use it to keep his GRASS LAWN nice and green... why is he any different
    than the golf course owner?

    This leads to some really stupid behaviors -- like growing cotton in the desert! Or, pecan orchards.

    But, Heaven forbid we curtail *development* to conserve water! Easier to convince residents to drink treated effluent than to risk shutting down that economic engine! <rolls eyes>

    Sadly, the rest of the country (and world, for that matter) isn't far behind. Water (like many natural resources) has been over-spent for
    too long for there not to be consequences!
    no crisis at all
    life is for real
    forget your delusional day dreaming

    China can't even feed its own people. Crop failures due to extreme weather and other effects directly related to global warming are forcing them to import more and more essential foods. Xi Jinping is trying very hard to turn it around, but it's not
    working out very well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Jul 31 06:54:23 2022
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 6:51:01 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/28/2022 5:48 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    This is what happens when government and important function within government become totally politicized.

    All the corrupt old farts who're responsible for this mess are dead and gone.

    Use the whole link: https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869
    "Scientists" aren't typically concerned with economics.

    Water drives economic development in the West. If you don't have adequate water supplies, you can't build houses. If you can't build houses, you
    can't support businesses.

    Cities, here, need to ensure a 100yr water supply for bonding. Would
    you lend money to a municipality that is going to "dry up and blow
    away" in 50 years? 30? (who's going to take out a 30yr mortgage on
    a property that has no municipal supports available 50 years hence??)

    Water rights are... weird. It's like saying you have the right to
    use electricity -- but never having to meter your usage! What keeps
    you honest?

    [I used to watch my FinL twiddle the gates in the irrigation canal adjoining his property to divert water across his fields. "How do you know when you've got enough?" "When the far end gets wet!" "Who keeps track of how much
    water you've used?" (puzzled look)]

    We "bank" some of our CAP allotment in the aquifer. What's to stop folks
    with wells from tapping into that? What's to stop folks from drilling (deeper)
    wells?

    Also, there are laws that effectively prevent you from using water access
    to drive policy. If the golf course wants to use municipal water to
    irrigate their greens, then why shouldn't they be able to? My *neighbor*
    can use it to keep his GRASS LAWN nice and green... why is he any different than the golf course owner?

    This leads to some really stupid behaviors -- like growing cotton in the desert! Or, pecan orchards.

    But, Heaven forbid we curtail *development* to conserve water! Easier to convince residents to drink treated effluent than to risk shutting down
    that economic engine! <rolls eyes>

    Sadly, the rest of the country (and world, for that matter) isn't far
    behind. Water (like many natural resources) has been over-spent for
    too long for there not to be consequences!

    It's the mentality that believes nature is inexhaustible, and they refuse to consider any evidence to the contrary until they have a catastrophe on their hands. The same bunch aren't worried about over population either.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Fred Bloggs on Sun Jul 31 07:33:08 2022
    On 7/31/2022 6:54 AM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 6:51:01 AM UTC-4, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/28/2022 5:48 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:
    This is what happens when government and important function within
    government become totally politicized.

    All the corrupt old farts who're responsible for this mess are dead and
    gone.

    Use the whole link:
    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869


    "Scientists" aren't typically concerned with economics.

    Water drives economic development in the West. If you don't have adequate
    water supplies, you can't build houses. If you can't build houses, you
    can't support businesses.

    Cities, here, need to ensure a 100yr water supply for bonding. Would you
    lend money to a municipality that is going to "dry up and blow away" in 50 >> years? 30? (who's going to take out a 30yr mortgage on a property that has >> no municipal supports available 50 years hence??)

    Water rights are... weird. It's like saying you have the right to use
    electricity -- but never having to meter your usage! What keeps you
    honest?

    [I used to watch my FinL twiddle the gates in the irrigation canal
    adjoining his property to divert water across his fields. "How do you know >> when you've got enough?" "When the far end gets wet!" "Who keeps track of
    how much water you've used?" (puzzled look)]

    We "bank" some of our CAP allotment in the aquifer. What's to stop folks
    with wells from tapping into that? What's to stop folks from drilling
    (deeper) wells?

    Also, there are laws that effectively prevent you from using water access
    to drive policy. If the golf course wants to use municipal water to
    irrigate their greens, then why shouldn't they be able to? My *neighbor*
    can use it to keep his GRASS LAWN nice and green... why is he any
    different than the golf course owner?

    This leads to some really stupid behaviors -- like growing cotton in the
    desert! Or, pecan orchards.

    But, Heaven forbid we curtail *development* to conserve water! Easier to
    convince residents to drink treated effluent than to risk shutting down
    that economic engine! <rolls eyes>

    Sadly, the rest of the country (and world, for that matter) isn't far
    behind. Water (like many natural resources) has been over-spent for too
    long for there not to be consequences!

    It's the mentality that believes nature is inexhaustible, and they refuse to consider any evidence to the contrary until they have a catastrophe on their hands. The same bunch aren't worried about over population either.

    I think it is more fundamental/selfish than that -- folks don't want to
    hear "no". If I use X CCF in a given period of time, telling me I can
    *only* use X CCF in that time period feels like I'm being cheated!

    Tell the municipalities that they should cut down on residential/commercial development and they cringe wondering how they will make up for that lack
    of increase in tax base and monies spent on those "purchases".

    Do they still place a glass of ice water in front of you as you sit down to
    a restaurant meal? How often do you NOT drink it? (remember, it also has to be washed once served!)

    Do you use a garden hose as a BROOM (to clean your driveway or sidewalk)?
    Do you leave a hose running as you wash our car? Brush your teeth? Shave?
    Do you take multiple showers during the humid months to "feel clean"?

    It's amusing to see how folks deal with water in MX where water is *delivered* to each home by The Water Truck. Suddenly, you discover you can get by with
    a sponge bath instead of a lengthy shower!

    A *close* look at the "bathtub ring" surrounding Lake Mead is really alarming (that's not "a few feet"!). Consider the Lake empties faster as the water level decreases (due to the V-shaped nature of the walls)

    Hint: water that isn't flowing into Lake Mead isn't flowing elsewhere, either!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 31 10:46:33 2022
    In article <tc643r$cjjg$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
    says...

    I've put these on my garden hoses:

    <https://lonn.net/product/heavy-duty-replacement-hose-ends/?v=7516fd43adaa>

    Yeah, you can get similar "control" with other nozzles/valves...
    but, with these, it's intuitive and automatic: *drop* the hose
    and the nozzle closes off the water supply... no need to discipline
    yourself to manually shut it down.




    I use the nozzle that looks similr to a hand gun or gas pump nozzle. If
    you do not hold it the water stops flowing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Jul 31 07:37:40 2022
    On 7/31/2022 7:33 AM, Don Y wrote:
    Do you leave a hose running as you wash our car?

    I've put these on my garden hoses:

    <https://lonn.net/product/heavy-duty-replacement-hose-ends/?v=7516fd43adaa>

    Yeah, you can get similar "control" with other nozzles/valves...
    but, with these, it's intuitive and automatic: *drop* the hose
    and the nozzle closes off the water supply... no need to discipline
    yourself to manually shut it down.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Ralph Mowery on Sun Jul 31 08:31:00 2022
    On 7/31/2022 7:46 AM, Ralph Mowery wrote:
    In article <tc643r$cjjg$1@dont-email.me>, blockedofcourse@foo.invalid
    says...

    I've put these on my garden hoses:

    <https://lonn.net/product/heavy-duty-replacement-hose-ends/?v=7516fd43adaa> >>
    Yeah, you can get similar "control" with other nozzles/valves...
    but, with these, it's intuitive and automatic: *drop* the hose
    and the nozzle closes off the water supply... no need to discipline
    yourself to manually shut it down.

    I use the nozzle that looks similr to a hand gun or gas pump nozzle. If
    you do not hold it the water stops flowing.

    *Many* nozzles will *want* to shut off unless "held open".

    The one you referenced, IIRC, has a small, triangular loop of metal that
    can be flipped down to hold the nozzle open.

    It can also squirt (momentarily) open if it lands on the handle when
    dropped.

    The Lonn water savers can't open unless subjected to a good deal of deformation; you are keenly aware of how long you have held it open
    while using it! (if you WANT to keep water flowing, they are
    contraindicated!)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com on Sun Jul 31 08:32:18 2022
    On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 17:48:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fredbloggs.fred@gmail.com> wrote:

    This is what happens when government and important function within government become totally politicized.

    All the corrupt old farts who're responsible for this mess are dead and gone.

    Use the whole link: >https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869

    Alarms again. Fear. You need to be afraid.

    You're afraid to even post your real name. Afraid someone will attack
    you or something.

    Wnat a way to live.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Jul 31 13:23:05 2022
    On 07/31/2022 08:37 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/31/2022 7:33 AM, Don Y wrote:
    Do you leave a hose running as you wash our car?

    I've put these on my garden hoses:

    <https://lonn.net/product/heavy-duty-replacement-hose-ends/?v=7516fd43adaa>

    Yeah, you can get similar "control" with other nozzles/valves...
    but, with these, it's intuitive and automatic: *drop* the hose
    and the nozzle closes off the water supply... no need to discipline
    yourself to manually shut it down.


    https://www.lowes.com/pd/Yardsmith-1-Pattern-Nozzle/50328313

    I get by with one of those for $6.50. It *usually* closes off the water
    supply when I drop the hose. I have managed to drop it one the handle
    and hose myself off. It's supposed to hit 102 today so that isn't
    necessarily a bad thing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 31 12:35:25 2022
    søndag den 31. juli 2022 kl. 21.23.14 UTC+2 skrev rbowman:
    On 07/31/2022 08:37 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/31/2022 7:33 AM, Don Y wrote:
    Do you leave a hose running as you wash our car?

    I've put these on my garden hoses:

    <https://lonn.net/product/heavy-duty-replacement-hose-ends/?v=7516fd43adaa>

    Yeah, you can get similar "control" with other nozzles/valves...
    but, with these, it's intuitive and automatic: *drop* the hose
    and the nozzle closes off the water supply... no need to discipline yourself to manually shut it down.

    https://www.lowes.com/pd/Yardsmith-1-Pattern-Nozzle/50328313

    I get by with one of those for $6.50. It *usually* closes off the water supply when I drop the hose. I have managed to drop it one the handle
    and hose myself off. It's supposed to hit 102 today so that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    much better in plastic, metal gets freaking cold

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Jul 31 13:15:27 2022
    On 07/31/2022 04:50 AM, Don Y wrote:
    This leads to some really stupid behaviors -- like growing cotton in the desert! Or, pecan orchards.

    https://gilaherald.com/truck-runs-off-highway-into-cotton-field/

    You don't like them old cotton fields back home in Pima?

    https://www.macrotrends.net/2533/cotton-prices-historical-chart-data

    Break even for cotton is around 75 cents per pound. It's up to 1.03 now
    but that might not last. Historically there were a lot of years where it
    was hardly worth hauling to Long Beach to ship to China.

    Farmers in Mississippi and other cotton growing areas thought they had
    the solution; flood the fields and raise catfish. That was fun while it
    lasted. Swai and other sort-of-catfish species from Vietnam put paid to
    that despite trying to restrict the word 'catfish' to Ictaluridae.
    People aren't doing DNA analysis on that plate of Cajun blackened
    catfish. I don't know if they drained the fields and went back to row
    crops. I haven't been in that part of the world in decades.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Jul 31 12:45:28 2022
    On 7/31/2022 12:23 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/31/2022 08:37 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/31/2022 7:33 AM, Don Y wrote:
    Do you leave a hose running as you wash our car?

    I've put these on my garden hoses:

    <https://lonn.net/product/heavy-duty-replacement-hose-ends/?v=7516fd43adaa> >>
    Yeah, you can get similar "control" with other nozzles/valves...
    but, with these, it's intuitive and automatic: *drop* the hose
    and the nozzle closes off the water supply... no need to discipline
    yourself to manually shut it down.


    https://www.lowes.com/pd/Yardsmith-1-Pattern-Nozzle/50328313

    Yes, but, as I mentioned to Ralph, it can be "locked on". If you'll
    NEVER need that ability, then why not remove the little metal ring
    that enables it? :>

    IIRC, there was also an adjustment screw to determine how "hard"
    the spray is emitted.

    [There are all sorts of similar other "pistol-like" nozzles
    but all have the same characteristics, just different selections
    of spray patterns]

    The Lonn devices are almost tedious to "turn on". So, you are
    very conscious of how long you've been deforming the nozzle to
    allow water to pass; turning the water OFF comes as a relief!

    I get by with one of those for $6.50. It *usually* closes off the water supply
    when I drop the hose. I have managed to drop it one the handle and hose myself
    off. It's supposed to hit 102 today so that isn't necessarily a bad thing.

    We used the above when we were kids, washing cars. Someone ALWAYS ended
    up getting "squirted", accidentally, when it was dropped. And, you can't predict *who* will be victimized!

    A blast of cold water when you are expecting it isn't all that bad.
    But, when you AREN'T expecting it, it takes your breath away!

    [Of course, here, we don't have cold water in the summer/monsoon months...]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Jul 31 13:02:46 2022
    On 7/31/2022 12:15 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/31/2022 04:50 AM, Don Y wrote:
    This leads to some really stupid behaviors -- like growing cotton in the
    desert! Or, pecan orchards.

    https://gilaherald.com/truck-runs-off-highway-into-cotton-field/

    You don't like them old cotton fields back home in Pima?

    (sigh) The "double standard" gets annoying.

    I can be fined for "water running across my sidewalk". Or, a broken
    irrigation emitter "squirting" water.

    I'm expected to wash out my recyclable containers -- when the city could perform that task and *reuse* the rinse water!

    I'm NOT expected to wash my car -- cuz the commercial car wash WILL
    reuse the rinse water.

    I should xeriscape and switch to drip irrigation -- though the city uses
    "long throw" emitters to water the ball fields AND DOES SO DURING DAYLIGHT HOURS (losing 40% to evaporation).

    If you want me to be water conscious, then YOU should be as well!

    https://www.macrotrends.net/2533/cotton-prices-historical-chart-data

    Break even for cotton is around 75 cents per pound. It's up to 1.03 now but that might not last. Historically there were a lot of years where it was hardly
    worth hauling to Long Beach to ship to China.

    But a pound of cotton is a fair amount.

    OTOH, aren't there better places to grow it?

    Idea: Let's start a *citrus* farm outside of Nashua!

    Farmers in Mississippi and other cotton growing areas thought they had the solution; flood the fields and raise catfish. That was fun while it lasted. Swai and other sort-of-catfish species from Vietnam put paid to that despite trying to restrict the word 'catfish' to Ictaluridae. People aren't doing DNA analysis on that plate of Cajun blackened catfish. I don't know if they drained the fields and went back to row crops. I haven't been in that part of the world in decades.

    Can't blame folks for wanting to make money/eek out a living.
    But, shouldn't they AT LEAST take actions to maximize their
    chances of succeeding?

    I have the same sort of feelings towards folks who REPEATEDLY
    have lost homes/businesses to tornadoes, floods, hurricanes, etc.

    "Are you dense? What's it going to take to convince you that this
    isn't the right place to live??"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc on Sun Jul 31 16:42:53 2022
    On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 23:39:09 -0000 (UTC), DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >news:f08dehh8d7602fgar8l56f40e11ifvjk3c@4ax.com:

    snip

    Alarms again. Fear. You need to be afraid.

    You're afraid to even post your real name. Afraid someone will
    attack you or something.

    Wnat a way to live.

    You are such a fucking modern day dopey dipshit.

    You're afraid too. Most people are.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 31 23:39:09 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in news:f08dehh8d7602fgar8l56f40e11ifvjk3c@4ax.com:

    snip

    Alarms again. Fear. You need to be afraid.

    You're afraid to even post your real name. Afraid someone will
    attack you or something.

    Wnat a way to live.

    You are such a fucking modern day dopey dipshit.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Sun Jul 31 18:45:39 2022
    On 07/31/2022 01:35 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    søndag den 31. juli 2022 kl. 21.23.14 UTC+2 skrev rbowman:
    On 07/31/2022 08:37 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/31/2022 7:33 AM, Don Y wrote:
    Do you leave a hose running as you wash our car?

    I've put these on my garden hoses:

    <https://lonn.net/product/heavy-duty-replacement-hose-ends/?v=7516fd43adaa> >>>
    Yeah, you can get similar "control" with other nozzles/valves...
    but, with these, it's intuitive and automatic: *drop* the hose
    and the nozzle closes off the water supply... no need to discipline
    yourself to manually shut it down.

    https://www.lowes.com/pd/Yardsmith-1-Pattern-Nozzle/50328313

    I get by with one of those for $6.50. It *usually* closes off the water
    supply when I drop the hose. I have managed to drop it one the handle
    and hose myself off. It's supposed to hit 102 today so that isn't
    necessarily a bad thing.

    much better in plastic, metal gets freaking cold


    I have a plastic one around someplace that never worked well. I should
    get a new one since the pot metal one is getting a bit leaky.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From corvid@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 31 18:00:11 2022
    On 7/31/22 16:42, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 23:39:09 -0000 (UTC), DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    news:f08dehh8d7602fgar8l56f40e11ifvjk3c@4ax.com:

    snip

    Alarms again. Fear. You need to be afraid.

    You're afraid to even post your real name. Afraid someone will
    attack you or something.

    Wnat a way to live.

    You are such a fucking modern day dopey dipshit.

    You're afraid too. Most people are.

    I'm afraid of Yellowjackets. Not Rattlesnakes, though.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Jul 31 18:59:08 2022
    On 07/31/2022 01:45 PM, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/31/2022 12:23 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/31/2022 08:37 AM, Don Y wrote:


    Yes, but, as I mentioned to Ralph, it can be "locked on". If you'll
    NEVER need that ability, then why not remove the little metal ring
    that enables it? :>

    I checked and both of mine have them but I don't recall ever using them.
    I also was mistaken; one has a blue finish and I remembered it as being plastic.

    IIRC, there was also an adjustment screw to determine how "hard"
    the spray is emitted.

    It limits the metering rod travel. The blue one's rod still moves but
    not freely. We have water that's hard enough to walk on. In fact I'm
    dealing with a new pebble finish on the car, either from lawn sprinklers
    or residue from the fire up on the ridge last week. The suggestions
    range from dilute vinegar to 'wheel acid' which apparently is
    hydrofluoric. Think I'll start with vinegar.

    [There are all sorts of similar other "pistol-like" nozzles
    but all have the same characteristics, just different selections
    of spray patterns]

    The Lonn devices are almost tedious to "turn on". So, you are
    very conscious of how long you've been deforming the nozzle to
    allow water to pass; turning the water OFF comes as a relief!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Jul 31 19:07:55 2022
    On 07/31/2022 01:45 PM, Don Y wrote:
    The Lonn devices are almost tedious to "turn on". So, you are
    very conscious of how long you've been deforming the nozzle to
    allow water to pass; turning the water OFF comes as a relief!

    I've used those someplace, probably a filling station. It's nothing I
    would inflict on myself. Besides I check on the river about 250 yards
    from my backdoor. Unlike sections of the Rio Grande, it's still flowing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Jul 31 19:02:14 2022
    On 07/31/2022 02:02 PM, Don Y wrote:

    Idea: Let's start a *citrus* farm outside of Nashua!

    Nashua as in the place where they should set up a checkpoint for illegal migrants from Massachusetts?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 31 18:36:45 2022
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 8:32:29 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 17:48:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    All the corrupt old farts who're responsible for this mess are dead and gone.

    Use the whole link: >https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?

    Alarms again. Fear. You need to be afraid.

    Not paying attention to alarms, was a MAJOR violation of proper behavior during school
    fire drills. Even as an adult, if you are one, it's an impropriety.

    It's not about fear, but about apprehension; if you expect to drink water, you want to live near a source, hopefully a reliable one. Bad things happen
    if we don't plan ahead.

    Larkin Syndrome: perceiving fear, hysteria, panic in every situation

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Don Y on Sun Jul 31 18:43:50 2022
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:51:01 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/28/2022 5:48 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869

    "Scientists" aren't typically concerned with economics.

    Water drives economic development in the West. If you don't have adequate water supplies, you can't build houses. If you can't build houses, you
    can't support businesses.

    Cities, here, need to ensure a 100yr water supply for bonding.

    Yeah, planning ahead is kinda essential when you require and support housing that has to last 30 years 'til the mortgage is paid off.

    A trailer park, absent a supply of water, isn't a good place to put down roots, but
    it's easy to leave.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Jul 31 18:43:01 2022
    On 7/31/2022 6:02 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/31/2022 02:02 PM, Don Y wrote:

    Idea: Let's start a *citrus* farm outside of Nashua!

    Nashua as in the place where they should set up a checkpoint for illegal migrants from Massachusetts?

    No, from the secret soviet base in Hollis!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Jul 31 18:49:35 2022
    On 7/31/2022 6:07 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/31/2022 01:45 PM, Don Y wrote:
    The Lonn devices are almost tedious to "turn on". So, you are
    very conscious of how long you've been deforming the nozzle to
    allow water to pass; turning the water OFF comes as a relief!

    I've used those someplace, probably a filling station. It's nothing I would inflict on myself. Besides I check on the river about 250 yards from my backdoor. Unlike sections of the Rio Grande, it's still flowing.

    I fell in love with them after watching a "facilities worker" using them
    at a client's shop. The fact that he could just DROP it on the concrete
    slab without worrying about breaking it or "getting squirted" was a huge selling point.

    [I also bought a pair of hot water hoses.]

    When washing the cars, one needs to have water continuously available
    as the cars *dry* so quickly (ultralow humidity). And, if they are
    left to dry, they *spot*.

    So, you want to be able to pick up hose and quickly re-wet the entire
    vehicle every few minutes. Use a large bath towel to do the bulk drying
    and a chamois for the fine detail.

    But, you *really* have to work quick cuz the spots are almost impossible
    to be rid of!

    ["Invisible Glass" is a good product for manually cleaning window glass]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 31 18:53:24 2022
    On 7/31/2022 6:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:51:01 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/28/2022 5:48 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869

    "Scientists" aren't typically concerned with economics.

    Water drives economic development in the West. If you don't have adequate
    water supplies, you can't build houses. If you can't build houses, you
    can't support businesses.

    Cities, here, need to ensure a 100yr water supply for bonding.

    Yeah, planning ahead is kinda essential when you require and support housing that has to last 30 years 'til the mortgage is paid off.

    A trailer park, absent a supply of water, isn't a good place to put down roots, but
    it's easy to leave.

    Imagine the municipality's "investments". They want to issue bonds to
    fund roads and other infrastructure. What if all that is for nought
    given the prospects for continued habitation?

    We've already made plumbing changes in anticipation of having to add
    "local" treatment capabilities for hte inevitable switch to "treated
    effluent". (Yeah, like I'm gonna trust you guys to get THAT right...)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 31 18:59:37 2022
    On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:36:45 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 8:32:29 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 17:48:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    All the corrupt old farts who're responsible for this mess are dead and gone.

    Use the whole link:
    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?

    Alarms again. Fear. You need to be afraid.

    Not paying attention to alarms, was a MAJOR violation of proper behavior during school
    fire drills. Even as an adult, if you are one, it's an impropriety.

    It's not about fear, but about apprehension; if you expect to drink water, you >want to live near a source, hopefully a reliable one. Bad things happen
    if we don't plan ahead.

    Larkin Syndrome: perceiving fear, hysteria, panic in every situation

    Read the thread title. I didn't make that up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to corvid on Sun Jul 31 18:57:32 2022
    On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:00:11 -0700, corvid <bl@ckb.ird> wrote:

    On 7/31/22 16:42, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 23:39:09 -0000 (UTC),
    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    news:f08dehh8d7602fgar8l56f40e11ifvjk3c@4ax.com:

    snip

    Alarms again. Fear. You need to be afraid.

    You're afraid to even post your real name. Afraid someone will
    attack you or something.

    Wnat a way to live.

    You are such a fucking modern day dopey dipshit.

    You're afraid too. Most people are.

    I'm afraid of Yellowjackets. Not Rattlesnakes, though.

    Many people are afraid of spiders. Maybe it's genetic.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From corvid@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 31 21:11:11 2022
    On 7/31/22 18:57, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:00:11 -0700, corvid <bl@ckb.ird> wrote:
    On 7/31/22 16:42, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 23:39:09 -0000 (UTC),
    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    news:f08dehh8d7602fgar8l56f40e11ifvjk3c@4ax.com:

    snip

    Alarms again. Fear. You need to be afraid.

    You're afraid to even post your real name. Afraid someone
    will attack you or something.

    Wnat a way to live.

    You are such a fucking modern day dopey dipshit.

    You're afraid too. Most people are.

    I'm afraid of Yellowjackets. Not Rattlesnakes, though.

    Many people are afraid of spiders. Maybe it's genetic.

    Hey, if you haven't yet, I think you should stuff an empty CO2 cartridge
    with match heads and light the fuse. Every other kid has done that. I did.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 31 22:17:27 2022
    On 07/31/2022 07:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:51:01 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/28/2022 5:48 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869

    "Scientists" aren't typically concerned with economics.

    Water drives economic development in the West. If you don't have adequate
    water supplies, you can't build houses. If you can't build houses, you
    can't support businesses.

    Cities, here, need to ensure a 100yr water supply for bonding.

    Yeah, planning ahead is kinda essential when you require and support housing that has to last 30 years 'til the mortgage is paid off.

    A trailer park, absent a supply of water, isn't a good place to put down roots, but
    it's easy to leave.


    Pima County found that out when they tried to put a .50/day tax on RVs
    to fund their baseball stadium. When your potential tax base is on
    wheels they tend to furl the awning and head for some other county.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to corvid on Mon Aug 1 00:10:35 2022
    On 07/31/2022 10:11 PM, corvid wrote:
    On 7/31/22 18:57, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:00:11 -0700, corvid <bl@ckb.ird> wrote:
    On 7/31/22 16:42, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 23:39:09 -0000 (UTC),
    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    news:f08dehh8d7602fgar8l56f40e11ifvjk3c@4ax.com:

    snip

    Alarms again. Fear. You need to be afraid.

    You're afraid to even post your real name. Afraid someone
    will attack you or something.

    Wnat a way to live.

    You are such a fucking modern day dopey dipshit.

    You're afraid too. Most people are.

    I'm afraid of Yellowjackets. Not Rattlesnakes, though.

    Many people are afraid of spiders. Maybe it's genetic.

    Hey, if you haven't yet, I think you should stuff an empty CO2 cartridge
    with match heads and light the fuse. Every other kid has done that. I did.


    Never did that. The drugstores used to sell cans of saltpeter and
    flowers of sulfur. Sugar is an easier source of carbon than charcoal.
    Fill an old steel drygas can that sort of had a nozzle and you could
    make a satisfying firework.

    One of the neighborhood kids did the match head thing and it didn't end
    well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Aug 1 01:00:41 2022
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 6:59:45 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 31 Jul 2022 18:36:45 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 8:32:29 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 28 Jul 2022 17:48:57 -0700 (PDT), Fred Bloggs
    <bloggs.fred...@gmail.com> wrote:

    All the corrupt old farts who're responsible for this mess are dead and gone.

    Use the whole link:
    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?

    Alarms again. Fear. You need to be afraid.

    Not paying attention to alarms, was a MAJOR violation of proper behavior during school
    fire drills. Even as an adult, if you are one, it's an impropriety.

    It's not about fear, but about apprehension; if you expect to drink water, you
    want to live near a source, hopefully a reliable one. Bad things happen
    if we don't plan ahead.

    Larkin Syndrome: perceiving fear, hysteria, panic in every situation

    Read the thread title. I didn't make that up.

    Huh? 'Alarm', as in snooze alarm or fire alarm, or smoke alarm, just means a mechanism of warning. It doesn't require an emotional response of fear.
    Time to implement stage 2 of your morning's plan, or plan B
    of water supply for a state. Or, change a battery. Whatever is appropriate.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Mon Aug 1 02:04:26 2022
    On 7/31/2022 9:17 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/31/2022 07:43 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, July 31, 2022 at 3:51:01 AM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
    On 7/28/2022 5:48 PM, Fred Bloggs wrote:

    https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2022-07-15/scientists-have-long-warned-of-a-colorado-river-crisis?emci=717875c0-c80e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&emdi=d21d7691-ca0e-ed11-b47a-281878b83d8a&ceid=509869


    "Scientists" aren't typically concerned with economics.

    Water drives economic development in the West. If you don't have adequate >>> water supplies, you can't build houses. If you can't build houses, you
    can't support businesses.

    Cities, here, need to ensure a 100yr water supply for bonding.

    Yeah, planning ahead is kinda essential when you require and support housing >> that has to last 30 years 'til the mortgage is paid off.

    A trailer park, absent a supply of water, isn't a good place to put down
    roots, but
    it's easy to leave.


    Pima County found that out when they tried to put a .50/day tax on RVs to fund
    their baseball stadium. When your potential tax base is on wheels they tend to
    furl the awning and head for some other county.

    IMO, they folded too quickly on that one.

    Where, ACTUALLY, do they think they were going to go? Feenigs? (why hadn't they been going there already?) Sahuarita? (how many restaurants and other accommodations?) Green Valley? (go away! leave us old folks to die in peace!) Vail?

    They came to where they could best be accommodated -- without spending a few dollars a day on gas to DRIVE to "someplace civilized". For the most part, they are a pathetic, "cheap" lot. The first question out of their mouth is to try to locate the "free activities" (you can afford a $100K motor home but can't afford to PAY for your entertainment? you don't own property, here,
    so don't pay taxes -- yet want the benefits those tax dollars fund?)

    Locals have learned to be very closed-mouthed about sharing info on the "non-public" activities that exist. No, I'm not going to invite you over
    to the house to share our studio space with the other LOCAL artists. No, we're not going to invite you to join us on the golf course. Or, clue you
    in on the unpublished activities that we know about.

    But, hey, you can go play BINGO or GIN at the park district! You'll likely find lots of other out-of-towners, there! Seems kinda silly to drive that
    big behemoth all that way just to play BINGO! <shrug>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Mon Aug 1 03:30:20 2022
    On 8/1/2022 1:00 AM, whit3rd wrote:
    Huh? 'Alarm', as in snooze alarm or fire alarm, or smoke alarm, just means a
    mechanism of warning. It doesn't require an emotional response of fear.

    Exactly.

    "Your laundry cycle has completed"
    "Your toast is done"
    "You have neglected to fasten your seat belts"
    "The item you're defrosting in the microwave is ready"
    "YOU wanted to be notified of this time (of day, email rceipt, etc.)!"
    "A door is ajar" (no, a door is a DOOR, not a JAR!)
    "Your car is due for scheduled maintenance"
    "You've neglected to put the vehicle in park despite shutting off the ignition" "You've exited the vehicle while it is running"
    "If you don't leave now, you'll be late for work"

    Some people see fear in everything. And assume fear in others without
    proof thereof.

    They should remove the "alarms" from all such devices and just be content
    to live with the consequences (moldy laundry, burnt toast, personal injury
    in auto accidents, late to work, etc.) lest they find themselves in a
    perpetual state of panic!

    Time to implement stage 2 of your morning's plan, or plan B
    of water supply for a state. Or, change a battery. Whatever is appropriate.

    It's an *alert*, if that is less threatening. But, often there may
    be more significant consequences to it's absence (or being ignored).

    Ignore the doorbell (alert) and... <shrug> Likely just a vendor or
    neighbor. *BUT*, could be the fire department urging you to leave
    your residence lest the fire at the neighbor's home involve yours!

    Ignore the "brake failure" (alarm) and... ?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Mon Aug 1 11:01:06 2022
    On 08/01/2022 03:04 AM, Don Y wrote:
    Where, ACTUALLY, do they think they were going to go? Feenigs? (why
    hadn't
    they been going there already?) Sahuarita? (how many restaurants and
    other
    accommodations?) Green Valley? (go away! leave us old folks to die in peace!) Vail?

    Quartzite. I have a small trailer at Why that hasn't moved since the
    early '90s. When that scheme went through I registered it as a mobile
    home, which costs me about $11 a year in property tax.

    If you're familiar with Why it doesn't have much in the way of
    accommodations. Luckily the library in Ajo, small as it is, is a branch
    of the Pima County library and can pull on its resources.

    They also finally put a part-time DMV branch in Ajo so you don't have to
    go to Casa or Tucson.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Mon Aug 1 11:30:43 2022
    On 8/1/2022 10:01 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/01/2022 03:04 AM, Don Y wrote:
    Where, ACTUALLY, do they think they were going to go? Feenigs? (why
    hadn't
    they been going there already?) Sahuarita? (how many restaurants and
    other
    accommodations?) Green Valley? (go away! leave us old folks to die in
    peace!) Vail?

    Quartzite.

    Yeah, but they want to be able to eat at decent NEARBY restaurants,
    take advantage of the "free" offerings at the park district, swim
    in the public pools, golf on local courses, etc.

    And, do so for less than 50c/day -- in gas! :>

    I have a small trailer at Why that hasn't moved since the early
    '90s. When that scheme went through I registered it as a mobile home, which costs me about $11 a year in property tax.

    Ha! Too funny! Have your absentee ballot sent there -- and forwarded
    by a friend! Vote early, vote often!

    If you're familiar with Why it doesn't have much in the way of accommodations.
    Luckily the library in Ajo, small as it is, is a branch of the Pima County library and can pull on its resources.

    Yeah, I had a cousin come out when he was exploring the country for a
    place to spend a few years. He visited Ajo (and isn't there a reservation
    out that way?) and decided, "No Thanks"!

    [Though he ended up in Gallup -- which can't be much better!]

    They also finally put a part-time DMV branch in Ajo so you don't have to go to
    Casa or Tucson.

    Ugh! Reminds me I have to change the address on SWMBO's vehicle registration. "Come in to any office..."

    <frown>

    Thankfully, DMV here is considerably faster than in other places I've lived!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Mon Aug 1 18:03:55 2022
    On 08/01/2022 12:30 PM, Don Y wrote:

    I have a small trailer at Why that hasn't moved since the early '90s.
    When that scheme went through I registered it as a mobile home, which
    costs me about $11 a year in property tax.

    Ha! Too funny! Have your absentee ballot sent there -- and forwarded
    by a friend! Vote early, vote often!

    Nah, wrong district. I couldn't vote for Wendy Rogers. It would be
    better if she didn't look like a chipmunk caught in the headlights in
    most photos.


    Yeah, I had a cousin come out when he was exploring the country for a
    place to spend a few years. He visited Ajo (and isn't there a reservation out that way?) and decided, "No Thanks"!

    There isn't much there. Phelps Dodge pulled out in '85, leaving an open
    pit mine and miles of tailings. They went through the motions every 10
    years or so so they won't have to start remediation. PD is gone now,
    bought by Freeport-McMoran who will probably try to weasel out of the liabilities.

    When I first went there in '88 PD was selling off the company houses for
    about $20k per. I considered it briefly but decided by the time I
    retired in 20 years or so they would be money sinks, needing new roofs,
    and so forth.

    PD ran the company store for a while and pulled out but there is a
    grocery store which is adequate if not fancy. Same for the hardware
    store. The movie theater died in the '90s, and the restaurants started following suit.

    They built a Border Patrol station at Why which prevented a complete
    collapse but it still isn't a thriving community.

    The Tohono O'Odham Reservation starts about half a mile east of Why on
    86 and ends just west of Three Points. It's an irregular shape but
    extends into Mexico so in the US it runs from the border to about 10
    miles south of Casa Grande. There's not a lot there. Sells is the
    biggest town. I don't think Kitt Peak itself is on the rez but where you
    turn to go up the mountain is.

    North of Ajo to close to Gila Bend is the Cabeza Prieta Wildlife Refuge
    / Barry Goldwater Bombing Range. You can hike out on it after you call
    up to Gila to find out if they're planning a war that day.

    It's a great place if you like the desert and have basic tastes.

    Gallup is a lot. It's claim to fame is where the Indians come off the
    rez to get drunk and kill themselves trying to get home, either in car
    wrecks or exposure if they're hoofing it. It's over 6400 feet so winter
    is a thing there. You cross the Divide east of town so that's another
    little surprise like Flag for people who think I40 is dry and dusty year around.




    [Though he ended up in Gallup -- which can't be much better!]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Mon Aug 1 19:03:56 2022
    On 8/1/2022 5:03 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/01/2022 12:30 PM, Don Y wrote:

    I have a small trailer at Why that hasn't moved since the early '90s.
    When that scheme went through I registered it as a mobile home, which
    costs me about $11 a year in property tax.

    Ha! Too funny! Have your absentee ballot sent there -- and forwarded
    by a friend! Vote early, vote often!

    Nah, wrong district. I couldn't vote for Wendy Rogers. It would be better if she didn't look like a chipmunk caught in the headlights in most photos.

    I find it hard to vote for MOST arizonans! <frown>

    Yeah, I had a cousin come out when he was exploring the country for a
    place to spend a few years. He visited Ajo (and isn't there a reservation >> out that way?) and decided, "No Thanks"!

    There isn't much there. Phelps Dodge pulled out in '85, leaving an open pit mine and miles of tailings. They went through the motions every 10 years or so
    so they won't have to start remediation. PD is gone now, bought by Freeport-McMoran who will probably try to weasel out of the liabilities.

    Neighbor lived there for some time. Then divorced and moved here.
    She never mentions anything "interesting" about the place -- other than heat.

    When I first went there in '88 PD was selling off the company houses for about
    $20k per. I considered it briefly but decided by the time I retired in 20 years
    or so they would be money sinks, needing new roofs, and so forth.

    Those things can be solved with money. I am more concerned with access
    to amenities, care facilities, etc. I know I can be at any of two or three hospitals in 10 minutes; as I get older, that means something to me!

    [We'd thought of moving farther out -- less traffic, congestion, better
    views, fewer neighbors, etc. But, those things also mean 30+ minute
    rides for emergency care, 30+ minute rides to stores, etc.]

    PD ran the company store for a while and pulled out but there is a grocery store which is adequate if not fancy. Same for the hardware store. The movie theater died in the '90s, and the restaurants started following suit.

    They built a Border Patrol station at Why which prevented a complete collapse but it still isn't a thriving community.

    The Tohono O'Odham Reservation starts about half a mile east of Why on 86 and ends just west of Three Points. It's an irregular shape but extends into Mexico
    so in the US it runs from the border to about 10 miles south of Casa Grande. There's not a lot there. Sells is the biggest town. I don't think Kitt Peak itself is on the rez but where you turn to go up the mountain is.

    *Sells* was the place my cousin visited.

    North of Ajo to close to Gila Bend is the Cabeza Prieta Wildlife Refuge / Barry
    Goldwater Bombing Range. You can hike out on it after you call up to Gila to find out if they're planning a war that day.

    It's a great place if you like the desert and have basic tastes.

    <grin> See above.

    Gallup is a lot. It's claim to fame is where the Indians come off the rez to get drunk and kill themselves trying to get home, either in car wrecks or exposure if they're hoofing it. It's over 6400 feet so winter is a thing there.
    You cross the Divide east of town so that's another little surprise like Flag for people who think I40 is dry and dusty year around.

    Yeah, one comment my cousin made was how he felt like "a minority", there.

    And, how different their culture is. Language, values, traditions, etc.

    He didn't claim they were standoffish -- in fact, many invited him into
    their homes for traditional meals, etc.

    But, he was uncomfortable feeling that *he* was the "different" one!

    [Though he ended up in Gallup -- which can't be much better!]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Tue Aug 2 01:00:50 2022
    On 08/01/2022 08:03 PM, Don Y wrote:
    Neighbor lived there for some time. Then divorced and moved here.
    She never mentions anything "interesting" about the place -- other than
    heat.

    There's plenty of that. There is a nice 300 yard range north of town.
    You've got to time it right though, before the wind picks up and the
    mirage takes over.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssqnPObnG9E

    People think of mirages from cartoons but 300 yards of 150+ degree sand
    will do it.

    I've only seen a classic mirage once, coming down the hill from the CA
    border headed to LV. There was a big lake in the valley that isn't on
    any map.


    *Sells* was the place my cousin visited.

    The grocery store there is an abbreviated Basha's. I'd stop there
    sometimes if I got tired of Tuscon before I picked up groceries. I'm a
    sucker for maranitos and they'd generally have a few bags. There's a
    rodeo and that's about it for Sells.

    The real rodeo is at the end of January but it's open range so cattle
    are often wandering around the road looking for greenery along the road.

    Besides that there isn't much on 86. I came back on the bike after dark
    on Dia de los Muertos. Spookiest ride I ever took with the candles
    burning in all those roadside shrines. I never did figure out how so
    many people killed themselves on a basically straight road with nothing
    bigger than a saguaro to hit.


    Yeah, one comment my cousin made was how he felt like "a minority", there.

    And, how different their culture is. Language, values, traditions, etc.

    He didn't claim they were standoffish -- in fact, many invited him into
    their homes for traditional meals, etc.

    But, he was uncomfortable feeling that *he* was the "different" one!

    Gallup is about half Navajo, so yeah. You get that in a lot of the small
    NM towns, not Navajos but Spanish that have been there since the land
    grant days.

    It is different. I spent about a week snooping around Chaco Canyon and
    got to know some of the rangers. One was a Navajo and he said his family
    gave him a hard time when he took the job there. The Navajo were late
    arrivals and don't know any more about the Anasazi than the whites but
    they thought that canyon was really bad juju. Fascinating place if you
    like environmental disasters. Phoenix, Casa Grande, Mesa Verde, and on
    and on thought they were in tall cotton until they weren't.

    Supposedly 'Navajo' was Hopi for head-bashers. They're not friends. The
    Navajo prefer 'Dine', or roughly 'the (real) people'. I think damn near
    every tribal name on every continent translates the same. They didn't
    name themselves Big Bellies, Pierced Noses, Flatheads, or whatever the
    tribe on the other side of the hill called them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Tue Aug 2 02:49:52 2022
    On 8/2/2022 12:00 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/01/2022 08:03 PM, Don Y wrote:
    *Sells* was the place my cousin visited.

    The grocery store there is an abbreviated Basha's. I'd stop there sometimes if

    Is it *really* a Basha's? Or, are you just using that as an example?

    I got tired of Tuscon before I picked up groceries. I'm a sucker for maranitos
    and they'd generally have a few bags. There's a rodeo and that's about it for Sells.

    Yeah, sort of like Cañon City -- three prisons and a bridge! :>

    Or, Cripple Creek -- ?

    (actually, I think it is now a gambling "hot spot" -- as hot as one can be in the middle of nowhere!)

    You can sort of understand how many of these places got started. But, got
    to wonder how they *persist*!

    <frown>

    The real rodeo is at the end of January but it's open range so cattle are often
    wandering around the road looking for greenery along the road.

    Besides that there isn't much on 86. I came back on the bike after dark on Dia
    de los Muertos. Spookiest ride I ever took with the candles burning in all those roadside shrines. I never did figure out how so many people killed themselves on a basically straight road with nothing bigger than a saguaro to hit.

    Yeah. Here it's all the white bicycles "parked" amid an assortment of
    floral arrangements. I wonder if there is an ordinance that allows
    them to exist? Or, prevents them from being disturbed? <shrug>

    Or, the stenciled "In Memory Of ..." on the rear windows of vehicles.
    Weird.

    Talk about cultural differences...

    Yeah, one comment my cousin made was how he felt like "a minority", there. >>
    And, how different their culture is. Language, values, traditions, etc.

    He didn't claim they were standoffish -- in fact, many invited him into
    their homes for traditional meals, etc.

    But, he was uncomfortable feeling that *he* was the "different" one!

    Gallup is about half Navajo, so yeah. You get that in a lot of the small NM towns, not Navajos but Spanish that have been there since the land grant days.

    He taught on the rez. Also found it odd to get used to their attitudes
    towards education. On the one hand, they (elders) wanted people like him, there -- as it represented the only realistic way forward/out of poverty
    for their people. On the other, the *individual* commitment to schooling
    was pretty flimsy; he'd talk of persistent truancy that would only
    (briefly) end when the student (family?) was in danger of losing their
    stipend (?) due to non-attendance.

    It is different. I spent about a week snooping around Chaco Canyon and got to know some of the rangers. One was a Navajo and he said his family gave him a hard time when he took the job there. The Navajo were late arrivals and don't know any more about the Anasazi than the whites but they thought that canyon was really bad juju. Fascinating place if you like environmental disasters. Phoenix, Casa Grande, Mesa Verde, and on and on thought they were in tall cotton until they weren't.

    Supposedly 'Navajo' was Hopi for head-bashers. They're not friends. The Navajo
    prefer 'Dine', or roughly 'the (real) people'. I think damn near every tribal name on every continent translates the same. They didn't name themselves Big Bellies, Pierced Noses, Flatheads, or whatever the tribe on the other side of the hill called them.

    O'Odham = "Desert People". How do we know that? Some *native* told us?
    How do we know his folks (grandfolks) didn't tell *him* "Desert People"
    simply because they were embarassed to say "People with smelly feet"?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Tue Aug 2 10:54:18 2022
    On 08/02/2022 03:49 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 8/2/2022 12:00 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/01/2022 08:03 PM, Don Y wrote:
    *Sells* was the place my cousin visited.

    The grocery store there is an abbreviated Basha's. I'd stop there
    sometimes if

    Is it *really* a Basha's? Or, are you just using that as an example?

    It says it's Basha's. It's smaller than one would be in Tucson and
    doesn't have the variety but is tuned to what people living on the rez buy.

    Or, Cripple Creek -- ?

    (actually, I think it is now a gambling "hot spot" -- as hot as one can
    be in
    the middle of nowhere!)

    They built a casino of sorts at Why on the other side of the Why. Most
    of the snowbirds at Why or Ajo are the low rent crowd. No $250,000 RVs
    there. There's some traffic for Organ Pipe or going down to Puerto
    Penasco but unless its coming from Tucson it bypasses the casino. They
    tried for an RV campground but don't have the water.


    Yeah. Here it's all the white bicycles "parked" amid an assortment of
    floral arrangements. I wonder if there is an ordinance that allows
    them to exist? Or, prevents them from being disturbed? <shrug>

    We have a group that puts up white crosses. Sometimes they'll get
    decorated but not frequently. They're also unmarked.

    He taught on the rez. Also found it odd to get used to their attitudes towards education. On the one hand, they (elders) wanted people like him, there -- as it represented the only realistic way forward/out of poverty
    for their people. On the other, the *individual* commitment to schooling
    was pretty flimsy; he'd talk of persistent truancy that would only
    (briefly) end when the student (family?) was in danger of losing their stipend (?) due to non-attendance.

    Denise Juneau was the Superintendent of Public Instruction from 2008 to
    2016 when she term limited out. Checked all the boxes, Democrat, Indian,
    gay but politics in Montana are a little different. She fought tooth and
    nail against NCLB knowing full when that small schools with a few Indian
    kids were never going to meet the standards.

    She tried for the us House but that was a bridge too far so she moved on
    to Superintendent of Seattle Public Schools. She eventually got fired
    for not being responsive to the needs of minority students, which was a
    bit of irony.


    O'Odham = "Desert People". How do we know that? Some *native* told us?
    How do we know his folks (grandfolks) didn't tell *him* "Desert People" simply because they were embarassed to say "People with smelly feet"?


    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flathead_Nation,_Montana_-_bilingual_English-Salish_road_signs_3.jpg

    There is a fad here for road signs that nobody can pronounce and may or
    may not be what anybody ever called the place. They renamed Squaw Peak
    to Ch-paa-qn to be politically correct. Originally they thought it meant
    'old woman' but then decided it meant 'shining mountain'. The current
    theory is 'gray, treeless mountain with no game'.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Tue Aug 2 10:23:41 2022
    On 8/2/2022 9:54 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/02/2022 03:49 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 8/2/2022 12:00 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/01/2022 08:03 PM, Don Y wrote:
    *Sells* was the place my cousin visited.

    The grocery store there is an abbreviated Basha's. I'd stop there
    sometimes if

    Is it *really* a Basha's? Or, are you just using that as an example?

    It says it's Basha's. It's smaller than one would be in Tucson and doesn't have
    the variety but is tuned to what people living on the rez buy.

    That's surprising. IIRC, Basha's is still a family business. Interesting
    to se they'd extend themselves (geographically) that far -- and into such
    a wonky market!

    Yeah. Here it's all the white bicycles "parked" amid an assortment of
    floral arrangements. I wonder if there is an ordinance that allows
    them to exist? Or, prevents them from being disturbed? <shrug>

    We have a group that puts up white crosses. Sometimes they'll get decorated but
    not frequently. They're also unmarked.

    So, they have a database or other list of sites? Or, "Hey, Bob... let's put one over here!"?

    He taught on the rez. Also found it odd to get used to their attitudes
    towards education. On the one hand, they (elders) wanted people like him, >> there -- as it represented the only realistic way forward/out of poverty
    for their people. On the other, the *individual* commitment to schooling
    was pretty flimsy; he'd talk of persistent truancy that would only
    (briefly) end when the student (family?) was in danger of losing their
    stipend (?) due to non-attendance.

    Denise Juneau was the Superintendent of Public Instruction from 2008 to 2016 when she term limited out. Checked all the boxes, Democrat, Indian, gay but politics in Montana are a little different. She fought tooth and nail against NCLB knowing full when that small schools with a few Indian kids were never going to meet the standards.

    So, rather than addressing the shortfall, let's lower the bar? <frown>

    She tried for the us House but that was a bridge too far so she moved on to Superintendent of Seattle Public Schools. She eventually got fired for not being responsive to the needs of minority students, which was a bit of irony.

    Too funny.

    The common thread in all folks sucking off the gummit is "look out for #1".

    O'Odham = "Desert People". How do we know that? Some *native* told us?
    How do we know his folks (grandfolks) didn't tell *him* "Desert People"
    simply because they were embarassed to say "People with smelly feet"?

    https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Flathead_Nation,_Montana_-_bilingual_English-Salish_road_signs_3.jpg


    There is a fad here for road signs that nobody can pronounce and may or may not
    be what anybody ever called the place. They renamed Squaw Peak to Ch-paa-qn to
    be politically correct. Originally they thought it meant 'old woman' but then decided it meant 'shining mountain'. The current theory is 'gray, treeless mountain with no game'.

    I always found the foreigners (which could mean anyone from outside New England) trying to pronounce names like Worcester, Billerica, Berlin, Cheesequake, Poughkeepsie, etc. to be amusing. "You're not from around here, are you?"

    Friends who did a stint in Guam & Hawaii claim some of the signs/location
    names are very "polynesian" (?)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Tue Aug 2 17:24:05 2022
    On 08/02/2022 11:23 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 8/2/2022 9:54 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/02/2022 03:49 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 8/2/2022 12:00 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/01/2022 08:03 PM, Don Y wrote:
    *Sells* was the place my cousin visited.

    The grocery store there is an abbreviated Basha's. I'd stop there
    sometimes if

    Is it *really* a Basha's? Or, are you just using that as an example?

    It says it's Basha's. It's smaller than one would be in Tucson and
    doesn't have the variety but is tuned to what people living on the rez
    buy.

    That's surprising. IIRC, Basha's is still a family business. Interesting
    to se they'd extend themselves (geographically) that far -- and into such
    a wonky market!

    Still there, apparently.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sells,+AZ+85634/@31.9146395,-111.8884597,526m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x86d500c56bf08e8b:0x3e107f88cb6e9c6a!8m2!3d31.9120215!4d-111.881234

    tinyurl.com/3wsrasuz

    One stop shopping; pick up your food stamps and head for Bashas.

    We have a group that puts up white crosses. Sometimes they'll get
    decorated but not frequently. They're also unmarked.

    So, they have a database or other list of sites? Or, "Hey, Bob... let's
    put
    one over here!"?

    I've never been able to find it although it must exist. One appeared
    about a half mile down the road and I don't remember any accident there. There's another one about three miles away at an intersection. I saw
    activity there one morning on the way to work with a Harley on its side
    but I don't know if the rider was the cross or not. There's another one
    a little further on that has some flowers so somebody must know who it was.


    Denise Juneau was the Superintendent of Public Instruction from 2008
    to 2016 when she term limited out. Checked all the boxes, Democrat,
    Indian, gay but politics in Montana are a little different. She fought
    tooth and nail against NCLB knowing full when that small schools with
    a few Indian kids were never going to meet the standards.

    So, rather than addressing the shortfall, let's lower the bar? <frown>

    The schools do the best they can in places like Browning (Blackfeet) or
    Lame Deer (Northern Cheyenne) but it's a losing battle.

    https://www.publicschoolreview.com/lame-deer-school-profile

    Towns on the Flathead Reservation like Polson do a little better but
    they're about 75% white. The story behind that was another historical
    screwing. The treaty established the rez, with the tribes relocated from
    the Bitterroot valley. Each household was allocated a parcel of land
    with water rights. Then the Great White Fathers said 'Look at all the
    land left over! We'll sell it to white settlers'.

    The Confederated Salish & Kootenai have managed to claw back a little.
    This year they got control of the Bison Range than had been run by the
    US Fish & Wildlife for a hundred years or so. You also need a tribal
    permit for camping, recreation, and fishing on the rez. The fishing
    permit is sort of double jeopardy since you still need a MT fishing
    license if you're white.

    Anyway Juneau had taught on the rez and knew exactly how it was going to
    play out more than some Bush bureaucrat. Most of the Indians have very
    little interest in joining White Civ.


    I always found the foreigners (which could mean anyone from outside New England) trying to pronounce names like Worcester, Billerica, Berlin, Cheesequake, Poughkeepsie, etc. to be amusing. "You're not from around
    here,
    are you?"

    Yeah, Warchester was always a show stopper. Even Albany is a two
    syllable word with no 'l' in site. Troy is almost impossible to screw up though.

    A lot of the place names where I grew up were German/Dutch. To handle Poestenkill it helps to understand umlauts and their modifications over
    the years. The 't' is optional too. The oldest gravestones of my
    grandmother's family have the umlaut, then oe, and finally just e. It's
    luck of the draw I guess. Poestenkill went with the English 'o' others
    go with the English short e.

    The NYS Berlin follows the NH pronunciation but I have a feeling that
    might be a WWI thing. They tried renaming places with mixed success.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Tue Aug 2 19:35:43 2022
    On 8/2/2022 4:24 PM, rbowman wrote:
    The grocery store there is an abbreviated Basha's. I'd stop there
    sometimes if

    Is it *really* a Basha's? Or, are you just using that as an example?

    It says it's Basha's. It's smaller than one would be in Tucson and
    doesn't have the variety but is tuned to what people living on the rez
    buy.

    That's surprising. IIRC, Basha's is still a family business. Interesting >> to se they'd extend themselves (geographically) that far -- and into such
    a wonky market!

    Still there, apparently.

    https://www.google.com/maps/place/Sells,+AZ+85634/@31.9146395,-111.8884597,526m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m5!3m4!1s0x86d500c56bf08e8b:0x3e107f88cb6e9c6a!8m2!3d31.9120215!4d-111.881234

    One stop shopping; pick up your food stamps and head for Bashas.

    Wow, pretty *bleak* area! Wouldn't want to break down, there! No doubt
    they (seriously!) advertise The Best Prices in Town! <rolls eyes>

    [Basha's, here, tends to be a bit pricier than the other chains
    and often dubious quality on produce]

    We have a group that puts up white crosses. Sometimes they'll get
    decorated but not frequently. They're also unmarked.

    So, they have a database or other list of sites? Or, "Hey, Bob... let's
    put
    one over here!"?

    I've never been able to find it although it must exist. One appeared about a half mile down the road and I don't remember any accident there. There's another one about three miles away at an intersection. I saw activity there one
    morning on the way to work with a Harley on its side but I don't know if the rider was the cross or not. There's another one a little further on that has some flowers so somebody must know who it was.

    I can understand shortly after such an accident (e.g., one year anniversary). But, if folks just keep "decorating" these sites, they'll be all over the place! Even if you just address bicycle/pedestrian/motorcycle fatalities!

    Denise Juneau was the Superintendent of Public Instruction from 2008
    to 2016 when she term limited out. Checked all the boxes, Democrat,
    Indian, gay but politics in Montana are a little different. She fought
    tooth and nail against NCLB knowing full when that small schools with
    a few Indian kids were never going to meet the standards.

    So, rather than addressing the shortfall, let's lower the bar? <frown>

    The schools do the best they can in places like Browning (Blackfeet) or Lame Deer (Northern Cheyenne) but it's a losing battle.

    https://www.publicschoolreview.com/lame-deer-school-profile

    Towns on the Flathead Reservation like Polson do a little better but they're about 75% white. The story behind that was another historical screwing. The treaty established the rez, with the tribes relocated from the Bitterroot valley. Each household was allocated a parcel of land with water rights. Then the Great White Fathers said 'Look at all the land left over! We'll sell it to
    white settlers'.

    The Confederated Salish & Kootenai have managed to claw back a little. This year they got control of the Bison Range than had been run by the US Fish & Wildlife for a hundred years or so. You also need a tribal permit for camping,
    recreation, and fishing on the rez. The fishing permit is sort of double jeopardy since you still need a MT fishing license if you're white.

    Anyway Juneau had taught on the rez and knew exactly how it was going to play out more than some Bush bureaucrat. Most of the Indians have very little interest in joining White Civ.

    Yet more evidence of arrogance. Sort o flike thinking The Deaf *want*
    to be a part of the hearing world ("OhMiGosh! If *I* can hear then EVERYONE must want to be able to hear! You poor thing...")

    I always found the foreigners (which could mean anyone from outside New
    England) trying to pronounce names like Worcester, Billerica, Berlin,
    Cheesequake, Poughkeepsie, etc. to be amusing. "You're not from around
    here,
    are you?"

    Yeah, Warchester was always a show stopper. Even Albany is a two syllable word
    with no 'l' in site. Troy is almost impossible to screw up though.

    A lot of the place names where I grew up were German/Dutch. To handle Poestenkill it helps to understand umlauts and their modifications over the years. The 't' is optional too. The oldest gravestones of my grandmother's family have the umlaut, then oe, and finally just e. It's luck of the draw I guess. Poestenkill went with the English 'o' others go with the English short e.

    The NYS Berlin follows the NH pronunciation but I have a feeling that might be
    a WWI thing. They tried renaming places with mixed success.

    I used to travel... A LOT! Part of my "cheap entertainment" was taking note
    of how The Locals pronounced common words, place names, etc. Plus the inevitable differences in the names they apply to everyday items.

    I particularly enjoyed the redundant (?) "ball bat". Or, a glass of
    "melk". "Mayshed" potatoes. etc.

    And, of course, motor "earl".

    To this day, I almost consciously take note of certain speech/pronunciation patterns and pidgeon-hole the speaker.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Tue Aug 2 22:27:44 2022
    On 08/02/2022 08:35 PM, Don Y wrote:
    On 8/2/2022 4:24 PM, rbowman wrote:


    Wow, pretty *bleak* area! Wouldn't want to break down, there! No doubt
    they (seriously!) advertise The Best Prices in Town! <rolls eyes>

    There isn't much between Three Points and Ajo. There are a couple of
    schools at San Simon and a couple of 'travel centers' which may or may
    not have dried up and blown away.

    I really prefer Tucson to Phoenix and they're about the same distance
    but at least on the run to Phoenix there's Gila, fwiw, and another short
    hop and you're in Buckeye.


    I can understand shortly after such an accident (e.g., one year
    anniversary).
    But, if folks just keep "decorating" these sites, they'll be all over the place! Even if you just address bicycle/pedestrian/motorcycle fatalities!

    There is a cemetery on the way to town that I sometimes stop at if I'm bicycling. The corner closest to the road is for infants, meaning
    anything from still births up to one or two years old. There are toys, pinwheels, solar light things and other decorations, sometimes with
    parents, I guess, hanging out. Sad and spooky.

    I used to travel... A LOT! Part of my "cheap entertainment" was taking
    note
    of how The Locals pronounced common words, place names, etc. Plus the inevitable differences in the names they apply to everyday items.

    I particularly enjoyed the redundant (?) "ball bat". Or, a glass of
    "melk". "Mayshed" potatoes. etc.

    I tend towards 'melk' and I'm a switch hitter on route vs. root. When I
    was a kid my accent wasn't really typical for the area. Now some people
    pick up on New England or back east someplace.

    Then there are the nuances of tonic, pop, and soda. It took me a while
    to figure out 'tonic' was generic and not a flavoring for gin. Grinder, submarine, Italian, hoagie and the distinction between a piece of peetz
    and a slice. Barbecue -- I personally of the coastal North Carolina
    school -- if there is a tomato anywhere near it it ain't barbecue and
    it's definitely pig.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Wed Aug 3 02:22:17 2022
    On 8/2/2022 9:27 PM, rbowman wrote:

    Wow, pretty *bleak* area! Wouldn't want to break down, there! No doubt
    they (seriously!) advertise The Best Prices in Town! <rolls eyes>

    There isn't much between Three Points and Ajo. There are a couple of schools at
    San Simon and a couple of 'travel centers' which may or may not have dried up and blown away.

    I really prefer Tucson to Phoenix and they're about the same distance but at least on the run to Phoenix there's Gila, fwiw, and another short hop and you're in Buckeye.

    "Short"? Nothing in The West is "short"! :>

    I cringe when I have to drive across town to the oriental market
    (and never leave the city limits!). Growing up (blue laws),
    I could make it to the Massachusetts state line in a similar
    amount of time if we wanted beer and it was after 8PM!

    [Of course, you needed a heavy foot but there were no traffic
    signals that you had to worry about!]

    Similarly, a neighbor *commutes* to feenigs three times a week.
    WTF? I could be *in* NYC in less time. Or beantown.

    A 20 minute drive was *long*. And, I'd pass through 3 or 4
    towns along the way! (complete with shopping centers, gas
    stations, fire departments, etc.)

    But, at least it's not *kansas* (or MT! :> )

    I can understand shortly after such an accident (e.g., one year
    anniversary).
    But, if folks just keep "decorating" these sites, they'll be all over the
    place! Even if you just address bicycle/pedestrian/motorcycle fatalities!

    There is a cemetery on the way to town that I sometimes stop at if I'm bicycling. The corner closest to the road is for infants, meaning anything from
    still births up to one or two years old. There are toys, pinwheels, solar light
    things and other decorations, sometimes with parents, I guess, hanging out. Sad
    and spooky.

    But, conceptually, a cemetary is where you *expect* graves. We *know* that there isn't anyone buried at all of these little roadside "shrines". So,
    why are they there?

    If someone died of a heart attack in a shopping center, would they put up a memorial there, as well?

    Is there something specially significant about traffic-related fatalities
    that merits such a memorial?

    <shrug> Dunno. I don't understand that aspect of their culture.

    (likewise, the "In memoriam" notes elegantly lettered on the back
    windows of their pickups, etc.)

    Other aspects of that culture are easier to understand. E.g., The Siesta. (excellent idea!)

    I used to travel... A LOT! Part of my "cheap entertainment" was taking
    note
    of how The Locals pronounced common words, place names, etc. Plus the
    inevitable differences in the names they apply to everyday items.

    I particularly enjoyed the redundant (?) "ball bat". Or, a glass of
    "melk". "Mayshed" potatoes. etc.

    I tend towards 'melk' and I'm a switch hitter on route vs. root. When I was a kid my accent wasn't really typical for the area. Now some people pick up on New England or back east someplace.

    My home town has a very distinctive accent that isn't present "two towns over". Most notable is a glottal stop on T's that effectively cuts words in half at such points. The R mangling is a combination of that of NYC and beantown. Final G's are very hard. "Quarter" often comes out sounding like "corter", etc.

    Plus oddities in vocabulary (e.g., "packie" for package store).

    Of course, you never notice this growing up.

    But, when you've been away for any length of time, its as if there's a
    daemon watching to encounter it and, when you do encounter it in
    another speaker, it's almost startling in terms of how strong the
    recognition!

    [I worked with a guy, here, and it was a matter of minutes before I
    cornered him on this just from the little we had said to each other
    at that point.]

    Then there are the nuances of tonic, pop, and soda.

    Is Moxie sold in any other part of the country?

    Frappe and milkshake (the former, thankyouverymuch! always amusing to see
    the disappointment in folks' eyes when they order the latter!)

    It took me a while to
    figure out 'tonic' was generic and not a flavoring for gin. Grinder, submarine,
    Italian, hoagie

    and "hero" (gyro)

    and the distinction between a piece of peetz and a slice.

    And that pizza is *thin*, not a meal-per-slice. And, has a layer of oil atop designed to burn the roof of your mouth!

    And, heaven forbid if you took out a fork/knife to eat same (just fold it and open wide)!

    Barbecue -- I personally of the coastal North Carolina school -- if there is a
    tomato anywhere near it it ain't barbecue and it's definitely pig.

    I hated pork, growing up. Mother **always** overcooked meat. Pork, doubly so (fear of trich?). Pork chops were excellent alternatives if the leather soles of your shoes had worn out! <frown>

    I attended a friend's party in my 20's and he roasted a pig. It was *amazing*! Absolutely amazing!

    SWMBO and I have an oriental-style meal made from pork tenderloin each Sunday. EVERY sunday -- even holidays (which are pizza days; pizza gets bumped to the following monday). Finestkind -- on both counts!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Aug 3 08:36:01 2022
    On 08/03/2022 03:22 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 8/2/2022 9:27 PM, rbowman wrote:

    Wow, pretty *bleak* area! Wouldn't want to break down, there! No doubt >>> they (seriously!) advertise The Best Prices in Town! <rolls eyes>

    There isn't much between Three Points and Ajo. There are a couple of
    schools at San Simon and a couple of 'travel centers' which may or may
    not have dried up and blown away.

    I really prefer Tucson to Phoenix and they're about the same distance
    but at least on the run to Phoenix there's Gila, fwiw, and another
    short hop and you're in Buckeye.

    "Short"? Nothing in The West is "short"! :>

    Ed Abbey measured distances in the west by the number of long necks
    consumed. I don't know what changed but in the late '80s the road
    shoulders in AZ were gardens of beer bottles and Jimson weed. There was
    a concerted effort to clean up the mess and it didn't come back. Maybe a preference switch to cans that blow away out of sight?

    I've never been into commuting. If I had a reasonably long contract in
    Boston I'd rent an apartment and only return to NH on the weekends. It
    was only 60 miles but I had no desire to waste 2+ hours a day.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Wed Aug 3 08:42:17 2022
    On 8/3/2022 7:36 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/03/2022 03:22 AM, Don Y wrote:
    On 8/2/2022 9:27 PM, rbowman wrote:

    Wow, pretty *bleak* area! Wouldn't want to break down, there! No doubt >>>> they (seriously!) advertise The Best Prices in Town! <rolls eyes>

    There isn't much between Three Points and Ajo. There are a couple of
    schools at San Simon and a couple of 'travel centers' which may or may
    not have dried up and blown away.

    I really prefer Tucson to Phoenix and they're about the same distance
    but at least on the run to Phoenix there's Gila, fwiw, and another
    short hop and you're in Buckeye.

    "Short"? Nothing in The West is "short"! :>

    Ed Abbey measured distances in the west by the number of long necks consumed. I

    I guess it's more practical than Smoots!

    don't know what changed but in the late '80s the road shoulders in AZ were gardens of beer bottles and Jimson weed. There was a concerted effort to clean
    up the mess and it didn't come back. Maybe a preference switch to cans that blow away out of sight?

    I've never been into commuting. If I had a reasonably long contract in Boston I'd rent an apartment and only return to NH on the weekends. It was only 60 miles but I had no desire to waste 2+ hours a day.

    My worst commute was while attending school; a daily trip from Arlington into Cambridge for classes. Then, over the bridge to meander through beantown until I could get down to Dedham/Norwood to work. Then, a late (11P) return home up 128 to Fresh Pond.

    It wasn't fun -- but, it wasn't unbearable. IIRC, each leg was about 25 minutes.

    Aside from my current commutes (bedroom to office), most have been a mile or three. And, rarely "into" a metro area (save a job in Chicago but that's just one big sprawl AND has decent infrastructure to move vehicles -- as long
    as you don't go as far as downtown).

    These folks who regularly spend an hour or four a day in a vehicle are
    just nuts!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Aug 3 21:50:21 2022
    On 08/03/2022 09:42 AM, Don Y wrote:
    side from my current commutes (bedroom to office), most have been a mile or three. And, rarely "into" a metro area (save a job in Chicago but
    that's just
    one big sprawl AND has decent infrastructure to move vehicles -- as long
    as you don't go as far as downtown).

    I only go into the office two days a week and it's 8.2 miles one way. No
    big deal since that's where Albertsons is. And CostCo. And Lowes. And
    ... About 30 years ago I was happy when they build a grocery store on
    the outskirts of town. It was about the only thing there on what was essentially a bypass road. Then the big box stores came.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Wed Aug 3 21:35:25 2022
    On 8/3/2022 8:50 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/03/2022 09:42 AM, Don Y wrote:
    side from my current commutes (bedroom to office), most have been a mile or >> three. And, rarely "into" a metro area (save a job in Chicago but
    that's just
    one big sprawl AND has decent infrastructure to move vehicles -- as long
    as you don't go as far as downtown).

    I only go into the office two days a week and it's 8.2 miles one way. No big

    A lot depends on how easy that distance is to navigate. If I head out of town for 8 miles, it will take me about 8 minutes (55MPH avg -- few lights!). If I head *into* town, that number would easily double (20MP average speed)

    And, the number of bozos you have to contend with on the way -- the EV drivers diligently watching their fuel efficiency numbers to eek out every last electron; the olde fartes driving in the left lane so they can "follow" the dividing line; bicyclists who want to ride the line delimiting the bike lane ("give them an additional 3 ft!"); the idiots who want to turn left from the right lane (or vice versa); etc.

    deal since that's where Albertsons is. And CostCo. And Lowes. And ... About

    We're near the edge of town yet have lots of nearby "amenities". Costco, Lowes, Home Depot, Sprouts, Frys, Safeway, Albertson's, Post Office, two hospitals, Walmart, country club and the usual smattering of drug stores,
    fast food/etc. places are all within a few miles of our front door.
    (I think one of the hospitals may be a full *3* miles from here)

    And, this side of town is the LESS DEVELOPED! (sheesh!)

    The downside of all this is it is too tempting to visit lots of different vendors in a single shopping trip. Today was Albertson's, Costco (plus gas) and Frys. But, I can't imagine what the folks in Summerhaven must
    do when it comes to shopping -- with just that one store! (I don't even
    think there's a gas station there!)

    When we (SWMBO) used to do the shopping together, it was a grueling
    pilgrimage: "Let's stop at Michael's... and JoAnn's... and The Bread
    Store... and we need to pick up some acetone at Lowes... and blueberries
    are on sale at Fry's... and Sprouts for produce... and Costco has those
    cookies that I like on sale... and you have some books waiting at the library... and we should check the POBox while we're out..." Some days,
    *10* stops in a 2 hour period.

    And, not more than 10 miles on the odometer! <frown>

    Now, I do the shopping solo and get it done with fewer stops and in less time.

    30 years ago I was happy when they build a grocery store on the outskirts of town. It was about the only thing there on what was essentially a bypass road.
    Then the big box stores came.

    Yeah, I am amazed at how quickly things grow -- metastasize?!

    When I lived in Denver, I was at the southernmost limits of the metro area. Everything was "north".

    I was out visiting friends a few years later and we were headed out to
    a restaurant. Not recognizing anything, I assumed we were more "in town"
    and, thus, had to head SOUTH to get back out to the area where I lived.

    Yet, we were heading NORTH. For quite a long drive!

    "Yikes! ALL of this is new?? Isn't that Castle Rock we just passed??!"

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Thu Aug 4 00:07:38 2022
    On 08/03/2022 10:35 PM, Don Y wrote:
    "Yikes! ALL of this is new?? Isn't that Castle Rock we just passed??!"

    The closest I've been to Denver in years was Fort Collins before I cut
    over to Estes Park. That was bad enough. About 15 years ago we had Wheat
    Ridge, Littleton, and Castle Rock but they all got sucked into Denver's
    system. Denver is a rather unique critter.

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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Thu Aug 4 00:37:57 2022
    On 8/3/2022 11:07 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 08/03/2022 10:35 PM, Don Y wrote:
    "Yikes! ALL of this is new?? Isn't that Castle Rock we just passed??!"

    The closest I've been to Denver in years was Fort Collins before I cut over to
    Estes Park. That was bad enough. About 15 years ago we had Wheat Ridge, Littleton, and Castle Rock but they all got sucked into Denver's system. Denver
    is a rather unique critter.

    Yeah, I had a Littleton address but technically lived in uninc Arapahoe.
    Castle Rock was *definitely* south. And, nothing but coyotes betwixt!

    So, to be driving north and encounter Castle Rock *before* getting to my
    neck of the woods was downright *scary*! Esp as it hadn't been all that
    long that I'd last been there!

    The same is slowly happening here as feenigs creeps further south and
    tucson north -- with picacho, casa grande, etc. slowly swelling in
    between.

    But, at least they are still separate "legal entities". Places like
    chicago just "never end"! (you mean we're STILL in the city??)
    Amusing when contrasted with someplace *tiny* -- like beantown!

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