• copper crisis?

    From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 15 08:09:50 2022
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 15 11:49:32 2022
    On 7/15/2022 11:09 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    It's unfortunate that adding copper to aluminum (most abundant metal) or aluminum to copper basically makes either one way worse than if you'd
    left it pure.

    Like you'd think by adding say 10% aluminum to copper you'd get a wire
    that was some small percentage less conductive than copper but still
    retained most of copper's other nice properties, but IIRC it basically
    ruins it and above some pretty low percentage aluminum you can't pull a copper/aluminum alloy into a wire, anyway.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 15 12:32:51 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    You could probably put DC-DC converters on, and run the collecting feeds
    sort of like 70V audio line, only backwards and at HV DC. There would
    be some safety issues, for sure.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Robertson@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 15 10:30:57 2022
    On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have to
    adapt.

    Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking.

    Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

    Like we've been doing since our distant ancestors left the trees!

    John :-#)#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 15 11:49:11 2022
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
    generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 15 14:57:34 2022
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and generators are small, with low copper content,

    Powered by clean fusion power, no doubt. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Fri Jul 15 13:11:52 2022
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 12:32:51 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    You could probably put DC-DC converters on, and run the collecting feeds
    sort of like 70V audio line, only backwards and at HV DC. There would
    be some safety issues, for sure.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    The USA is blessed. We have coal, copper, lead, tin, uranium,
    molybdenum, lithium, nickel, phosphates, silver, rare earth elements,
    bauxite, gold, iron, mercury, zinc, potash, tungsten, salt, oil,
    natural gas, water, sand, trees, grass, and girls.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Carl@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 15 17:28:41 2022
    On 7/15/22 11:09, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    If so, now may be the time to consider speculating and go long. A few
    days ago the Washington Examiner had a article saying copper has fallen
    28% since peaking in March, and that it is historically a leading
    indicator of a recession https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/policy/economy/copper-prices-warning-recession
    . Apparently one problem with recessions is that you have to either
    already be out of one or almost there before you can actually tell that
    one happened, but according to them copper seems to fall right at the
    start and keeps dropping at least until it's over, maybe longer. They
    have a plot of copper price overlaid with recessions, and it seems to me
    that recessions happened at maybe half of the major price drops, so I'm
    not sold on the usefulness. Back in 2018 Bloomberg had an article
    claiming that copper fails miserably as a harbinger of recession https://www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2018-08-28/copper-prices-fail-miserably-as-recession-indicator#xj4y7vzkg
    (behind a paywall). Don't look at me, ya pays yer money, ya takes yer
    chances :-).

    --
    Regards,
    Carl

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri Jul 15 19:48:03 2022
    On 7/15/2022 2:57 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385


    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
    generators are small, with low copper content,

    Powered by clean fusion power, no doubt. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Yeah, well, you're the physicist here what are y'all even doing. You
    guys put a man on the moon, thought there was a whole team just thinking
    shit up and then another team of men backing them up:

    <https://youtu.be/_B7MzBmjaJ8>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 15 19:33:11 2022
    On 7/15/2022 4:11 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 12:32:51 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    You could probably put DC-DC converters on, and run the collecting feeds
    sort of like 70V audio line, only backwards and at HV DC. There would
    be some safety issues, for sure.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    The USA is blessed. We have coal, copper, lead, tin, uranium,
    molybdenum, lithium, nickel, phosphates, silver, rare earth elements, bauxite, gold, iron, mercury, zinc, potash, tungsten, salt, oil,
    natural gas, water, sand, trees, grass, and girls.


    Well, you couldn't make them any less beautiful:

    <https://www.wboy.com/news/west-virginia/legislation-passed-to-turn-former-coalfields-into-solar-farms/>

    Bingham Canyon Mine:

    <https://youtu.be/Qgd2ggcL7EQ>

    A relative of mine used to work there, in his opinion it all kind of
    went to shit once Rio Tinto bought it out and their management came in;
    lots of perks for the execs while the little guy got extra shifts and
    pay cuts, the usual. Doing truck maintenance for UPS was a much better gig

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 15 17:27:44 2022
    On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 6:12:02 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 12:32:51 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    You could probably put DC-DC converters on, and run the collecting feeds
    sort of like 70V audio line, only backwards and at HV DC. There would
    be some safety issues, for sure.

    The USA is blessed. We have coal, copper, lead, tin, uranium,
    molybdenum, lithium, nickel, phosphates, silver, rare earth elements, bauxite, gold, iron, mercury, zinc, potash, tungsten, salt, oil,
    natural gas, water, sand, trees, grass, and girls.

    Unfortunately it is cursed with a lot of people who incorrectly think they know what they are talking about. Donald Trump comes to mind, and Jake Isks, amongst others. The US isn't unique in this respect, but they do seem to pay more attention to their
    idiots than they really should.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri Jul 15 17:23:34 2022
    On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 4:57:41 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and generators are small, with low copper content,
    Powered by clean fusion power, no doubt. ;)

    https://hb11.energy/investors/

    I met Heinrich Hora when he gave a talk on the project. Hydrogen - boron fusion doesn't produce neutrons, so it is cleaner than hydrogen or deuterium fusion, through it does need higher temperatures (which do seem to be attainable). I haven't put in any
    money yet, but I'm thinking about it.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to bitrex on Sat Jul 16 01:35:41 2022
    On 2022-07-15, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 11:09 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    It's unfortunate that adding copper to aluminum (most abundant metal) or aluminum to copper basically makes either one way worse than if you'd
    left it pure.

    Like you'd think by adding say 10% aluminum to copper you'd get a wire
    that was some small percentage less conductive than copper but still
    retained most of copper's other nice properties, but IIRC it basically
    ruins it and above some pretty low percentage aluminum you can't pull a copper/aluminum alloy into a wire, anyway.

    So don't mix, CCA works quite well for many tasks.

    --
    Jasen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Jasen Betts on Fri Jul 15 19:34:46 2022
    On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 12:00:57 PM UTC+10, Jasen Betts wrote:
    On 2022-07-15, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 11:09 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.

    It's unfortunate that adding copper to aluminum (most abundant metal) or aluminum to copper basically makes either one way worse than if you'd
    left it pure.

    Like you'd think by adding say 10% aluminum to copper you'd get a wire
    that was some small percentage less conductive than copper but still retained most of copper's other nice properties, but IIRC it basically ruins it and above some pretty low percentage aluminum you can't pull a copper/aluminum alloy into a wire, anyway.

    So don't mix, CCA works quite well for many tasks.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper-clad_aluminium_wire

    Room-temperature super-conductors have got to be the long term solution, but nobody has yet set up a long-distance power cable with even a high-temperature super-conductor.

    The initial hype about fullerene nanotubes hasn't lead to any commercial products yet. Maybe it will eventually.

    John Larkin will ignore it as marketing hype right up to the point where he can buy reels of the stuff from DigiKey.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to bitrex on Fri Jul 15 20:29:39 2022
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 11:49:40 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 11:09 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.

    It's unfortunate that adding copper to aluminum (most abundant metal) or aluminum to copper basically makes either one way worse than if you'd
    left it pure.

    Like you'd think by adding say 10% aluminum to copper you'd get a wire
    that was some small percentage less conductive than copper but still
    retained most of copper's other nice properties, but IIRC it basically
    ruins it and above some pretty low percentage aluminum you can't pull a copper/aluminum alloy into a wire, anyway.

    You mean like adding an impurity to a substance lowers the melting point no matter the melting point of the impurity? Yeah, it's like that. That's why they can use the melting point as a quick measure of purity.

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Ricky on Sat Jul 16 00:10:21 2022
    On 7/15/2022 11:29 PM, Ricky wrote:
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 11:49:40 AM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 11:09 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.

    It's unfortunate that adding copper to aluminum (most abundant metal) or
    aluminum to copper basically makes either one way worse than if you'd
    left it pure.

    Like you'd think by adding say 10% aluminum to copper you'd get a wire
    that was some small percentage less conductive than copper but still
    retained most of copper's other nice properties, but IIRC it basically
    ruins it and above some pretty low percentage aluminum you can't pull a
    copper/aluminum alloy into a wire, anyway.

    You mean like adding an impurity to a substance lowers the melting point no matter the melting point of the impurity? Yeah, it's like that. That's why they can use the melting point as a quick measure of purity.


    A paper on the conductivity of copper aluminum alloys, from the good ol'
    days (1937):

    <https://digitalcommons.mtech.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1071&context=bach_theses>

    It sez when alloying aluminum with copper at just 7.7% aluminum the conductivity is down to 16% of pure copper

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From upsidedown@downunder.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 16 15:17:47 2022
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 08:09:50 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:


    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.

    What is wrong with aluminium cables ? The electric conductivity is
    only slightly worse than in copper, just make the cables somewhat
    thicker (and also save some mass).

    Get rid of the bulky 51/60 Hz AC distribution (which needs bulky
    transformers) and replace it with HVDC/MVDC/LVDC distribution with
    small high frequency transformers.

    For LVDC distribution, standardize some voltages, such as:

    - 1500 Vdc: fits into the EU LV directive and a lot of LVD certified
    electric components can be used

    - 400 Vdc: Common in EV and in fast chargers. Also 380 Vdc (+/-190
    Vdc) is a common voltage in data centers and also increasingly in
    telecom centers

    - 48 Vdc, common telecom voltage. Also PoE

    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    Are these used for anything else than electric clocks driven by AC
    mains ?


    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting >resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.

    In India, they make TVs, computers and kitchen utilities that operate
    from 48 Vdc. These are intended for small local village nets driven by
    solar panels (e.g. four 12 V panels). This avoids much of the DC/AC/DC conversion losses.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to upsid...@downunder.com on Sat Jul 16 06:01:57 2022
    On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 10:17:56 PM UTC+10, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 08:09:50 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting >resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too.

    If you go to the trouble of setting up a grid system. Stick a battery bank next to you solar cells and/or windmill and you need a much smaller grid,and less wire.

    The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.

    Long runs tend to be cheaper if you convert to higher voltage and lower current for the long run, and convert back down again at the point of use. The utility companies having been doing this for a century or so now.

    In India, they make TVs, computers and kitchen utilities that operate
    from 48 Vdc. These are intended for small local village nets driven by
    solar panels (e.g. four 12 V panels). This avoids much of the DC/AC/DC conversion losses.

    The main point is that telephone systems used to be set up around a stack of four 12V lead-acid cells, so 48V is a kind of industry standard. Lead acid cells aren't as good as lithium ion cells, but if you can sell good old-fashioned lead acid batteries
    why spend time and energy on offering a better system?

    Individual solar cells produce a roughly hyperbolic current versus voltage curve. You get maximum power by operating at about 0.46V.

    You can stack 36 of them to get an array that will charge a 12V lead acid battery. Running a smaller number into an inverter and using mark-to-space modulation to tweak the voltage step-up can let you get close to optimal performance, but that takes
    design work.

    People tend to avoid doing that, if they can get away without it.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to bitrex on Sat Jul 16 06:47:12 2022
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:32 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/15/2022 11:09 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    It's unfortunate that adding copper to aluminum (most abundant metal) or >aluminum to copper basically makes either one way worse than if you'd
    left it pure.

    Like you'd think by adding say 10% aluminum to copper you'd get a wire
    that was some small percentage less conductive than copper but still
    retained most of copper's other nice properties, but IIRC it basically
    ruins it and above some pretty low percentage aluminum you can't pull a >copper/aluminum alloy into a wire, anyway.

    You can get solid plated copper wire from Amazon or ebay. It's
    intended for jewelry makers, is very hard, and a terrible electrical
    and thermal conductor. Real copper bus wire is soft and much more
    expensive.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to bitrex on Sat Jul 16 06:59:31 2022
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 19:33:11 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/15/2022 4:11 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 12:32:51 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    You could probably put DC-DC converters on, and run the collecting feeds >>> sort of like 70V audio line, only backwards and at HV DC. There would >>> be some safety issues, for sure.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    The USA is blessed. We have coal, copper, lead, tin, uranium,
    molybdenum, lithium, nickel, phosphates, silver, rare earth elements,
    bauxite, gold, iron, mercury, zinc, potash, tungsten, salt, oil,
    natural gas, water, sand, trees, grass, and girls.


    Well, you couldn't make them any less beautiful:

    <https://www.wboy.com/news/west-virginia/legislation-passed-to-turn-former-coalfields-into-solar-farms/>

    Bingham Canyon Mine:

    <https://youtu.be/Qgd2ggcL7EQ>

    A relative of mine used to work there, in his opinion it all kind of
    went to shit once Rio Tinto bought it out and their management came in;
    lots of perks for the execs while the little guy got extra shifts and
    pay cuts, the usual. Doing truck maintenance for UPS was a much better gig


    When a better gig is available, take it. We outlawed slavery in 1865.

    I've wondered why various minerals are concentrated in smallish clumps
    here and there. Copper here, uranium there, gold somewhere else. We're
    very lucky that it's not all uniformly distributed, PPMs or PPBs of
    important stuff uniformly in the rocks everywhere.

    Nice planet.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 16 07:03:03 2022
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 10:30:57 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
    wrote:


    On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have to >adapt.

    Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking.

    Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.


    Like we've been doing since our distant ancestors left the trees!

    The cost is low but the drama high with that method.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 16 07:15:20 2022
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."

    These are cool:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/08w3pg72wml0eac/PL300.jpg?raw=1

    Kapton pcb windings. Good for 300 watts, more with some air.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed8o1h3v8gptvul/SER2918.jpg?raw=1

    How can they wind that inductor?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 16 07:25:20 2022
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 16.15.34 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."
    These are cool:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/08w3pg72wml0eac/PL300.jpg?raw=1

    Kapton pcb windings. Good for 300 watts, more with some air.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed8o1h3v8gptvul/SER2918.jpg?raw=1

    How can they wind that inductor?

    soft wire and constraint it from bending any other way than you want it to

    https://youtu.be/rsbfOWiA420

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to upsidedown@downunder.com on Sat Jul 16 07:28:43 2022
    On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 15:17:47 +0300, upsidedown@downunder.com wrote:

    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 08:09:50 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.

    What is wrong with aluminium cables ? The electric conductivity is
    only slightly worse than in copper, just make the cables somewhat
    thicker (and also save some mass).

    Get rid of the bulky 51/60 Hz AC distribution (which needs bulky >transformers) and replace it with HVDC/MVDC/LVDC distribution with
    small high frequency transformers.

    For LVDC distribution, standardize some voltages, such as:

    - 1500 Vdc: fits into the EU LV directive and a lot of LVD certified
    electric components can be used

    - 400 Vdc: Common in EV and in fast chargers. Also 380 Vdc (+/-190
    Vdc) is a common voltage in data centers and also increasingly in
    telecom centers

    - 48 Vdc, common telecom voltage. Also PoE

    We use 48v as the prime DC power in some of our products, starting
    with a kilowatt of MeanWell boxed power supply or a Phihong wart.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/gr57bhafemypi63/P940_box_9.jpg?raw=1

    The first step is to get it down to something friendlier for the small
    stuff, like 12 or 24 volts, and then sub-regulate. LM2576HV-ADJ is
    klunky but reliable.

    SRH05S12 is a cool little part. I have some test data.


    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    Are these used for anything else than electric clocks driven by AC
    mains ?

    Are there electrostatic motor clocks? Cool. One could maybe make a
    million RPM electrostatic motor just for fun.



    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting >>resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.

    In India, they make TVs, computers and kitchen utilities that operate
    from 48 Vdc. These are intended for small local village nets driven by
    solar panels (e.g. four 12 V panels). This avoids much of the DC/AC/DC >conversion losses.


    Yeah, 48 is great.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 16 08:29:22 2022
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.



    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
    strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
    through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ralph Mowery@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 16 11:18:21 2022
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh87nnaaa2vk1sgejoa@4ax.com>, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.




    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
    strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
    through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sat Jul 16 11:21:47 2022
    On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 7:15:34 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    ... Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."

    These are cool:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/08w3pg72wml0eac/PL300.jpg?raw=1

    Kapton pcb windings. Good for 300 watts, more with some air.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed8o1h3v8gptvul/SER2918.jpg?raw=1

    How can they wind that inductor?

    Wire drawing takes multiple passes, with annealing and capstans between the dies, to eventually
    neck down a rod to wire. A big hydraulic press can instantly stamp sheet into complex shapes,
    as evidenced by each old solid-copper one cent coin. The windings look like stampings.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Robertson@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sat Jul 16 11:17:37 2022
    On 2022/07/16 7:03 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 10:30:57 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
    wrote:


    On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have to
    adapt.

    Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking.

    Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    I doubt people would mine the moon/asteroids for gold, they might for
    copper if it got too expensive on Earth.
    You'd need Heinlein's shipping method to make it worth while - and
    copper can be pushed in a magnetic accelerator...

    John :-#)#

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 16 13:21:08 2022
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 20.21.50 UTC+2 skrev whit3rd:
    On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 7:15:34 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote:
    ... Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."

    These are cool:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/08w3pg72wml0eac/PL300.jpg?raw=1

    Kapton pcb windings. Good for 300 watts, more with some air.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed8o1h3v8gptvul/SER2918.jpg?raw=1

    How can they wind that inductor?
    Wire drawing takes multiple passes, with annealing and capstans between the dies, to eventually
    neck down a rod to wire. A big hydraulic press can instantly stamp sheet into complex shapes,
    as evidenced by each old solid-copper one cent coin. The windings look like stampings.

    https://youtu.be/rsbfOWiA420

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From boB@21:1/5 to langwadt@fonz.dk on Sat Jul 16 16:32:14 2022
    On Sat, 16 Jul 2022 07:25:20 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

    lrdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 16.15.34 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
    generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."
    These are cool:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/08w3pg72wml0eac/PL300.jpg?raw=1

    Kapton pcb windings. Good for 300 watts, more with some air.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed8o1h3v8gptvul/SER2918.jpg?raw=1

    How can they wind that inductor?

    soft wire and constraint it from bending any other way than you want it to

    https://youtu.be/rsbfOWiA420


    That is a cool video ! We use flat wire just about like that.

    I had wondered how they did that. Not that hard to do evidently.

    I love the way they make woven/braided wire (Litz) and woven rope.

    boB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 17 09:26:54 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 10:30:57 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
    wrote:


    On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have to
    adapt.

    Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking.

    Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    One could use the Heinlein method to create very high grade deposits in
    the middle of the Sonoran Desert, say--let the rocks slow the payloads
    down, and then use mining methods to get the metal out. Of course it
    would flunk its environmental impact audit on account of all the NOx the re-entry would generate, and all the fine rock dust it would put in the air.

    "This rock contains substances known to the State of California to be
    unhealthy if it hits you at hypersonic speed."

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sun Jul 17 07:05:22 2022
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:26:54 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 10:30:57 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
    wrote:


    On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have to
    adapt.

    Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking.

    Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    One could use the Heinlein method to create very high grade deposits in
    the middle of the Sonoran Desert, say--let the rocks slow the payloads
    down, and then use mining methods to get the metal out. Of course it
    would flunk its environmental impact audit on account of all the NOx the >re-entry would generate, and all the fine rock dust it would put in the air.

    "This rock contains substances known to the State of California to be >unhealthy if it hits you at hypersonic speed."

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    I was speculating randomly on why we have clumps of cool stuff to dig
    up, instead of uniform basalt. Some things were separated by local
    processes, coal and salt for instance, but did critters make gold
    nuggets and metallic iron?

    If gold arrived by asteroid, why are there gold asteroids?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 17 16:37:32 2022
    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 08:09:50 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <0903dhhpmdat4e3fng4cjgplmq5a8gpql9@4ax.com>:


    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting >resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.

    Sup[p]er conductors come to mind, but cooling is hard
    Gold price in USD is dropping, gold is s good conductor.
    Horses...
    :-)
    Horses are green but full of shit.

    Remember that physics question if a car driven by a propellor in the wind
    can go faster than the wind?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Sun Jul 17 16:37:59 2022
    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in <f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
    some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Sun Jul 17 10:36:09 2022
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd ><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in ><f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
    some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

    Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
    Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

    My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically
    operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
    wind my own.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Graham Holloway@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 17 11:34:36 2022
    On Sunday, 17 July 2022 at 18:36:20 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <f9175eed-f332-4d34...@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.
    Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
    Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

    My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
    wind my own.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From keith@kjwdesigns.com@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 17 11:55:13 2022
    On Sunday, 17 July 2022 at 10:36:20 UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    ...
    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.
    Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
    Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.
    ...

    Please see section 1.6 in the Art of Electronics - The x-Chapters for how to minimize skin effects in large power cables where the skin effect is significant even at 50/60Hz.

    Litz cable has traditionally been used up to ~1-2Mhz to reduce skin-effect. Above that frequency the inter-conductor capacitance reduces the advantage.

    https://patents.google.com/patent/US1904162A/en

    Modern aircraft are changing to using DC power transmission at 270V or bipolar +/-270V and use high-frequency converters to change to the needed voltage close to the load.

    kw

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 17 15:20:45 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:26:54 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 10:30:57 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
    wrote:


    On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting >>>>> resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have to >>>> adapt.

    Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking.

    Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    One could use the Heinlein method to create very high grade deposits in
    the middle of the Sonoran Desert, say--let the rocks slow the payloads
    down, and then use mining methods to get the metal out. Of course it
    would flunk its environmental impact audit on account of all the NOx the
    re-entry would generate, and all the fine rock dust it would put in the air. >>
    "This rock contains substances known to the State of California to be
    unhealthy if it hits you at hypersonic speed."

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    I was speculating randomly on why we have clumps of cool stuff to dig
    up, instead of uniform basalt. Some things were separated by local
    processes, coal and salt for instance, but did critters make gold
    nuggets and metallic iron?

    If gold arrived by asteroid, why are there gold asteroids?


    Mostly hydrothermal AFAIK.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Sun Jul 17 15:27:50 2022
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd ><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in ><f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
    some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

    A traditional approach is to silver-plate the copper. Silver is
    cheaper than gold too.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sun Jul 17 13:28:03 2022
    On Sunday, 17 July 2022 at 20:28:00 UTC+1, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <f9175eed-f332-4d34...@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.
    A traditional approach is to silver-plate the copper. Silver is
    cheaper than gold too.

    Joe Gwinn

    At microwave frequencies plated silver often has worse conductivity than copper.
    The surface finish of the plating tends to be irregular which increases the length
    of the surface.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to John Walliker on Sun Jul 17 16:38:22 2022
    John Walliker wrote:
    On Sunday, 17 July 2022 at 20:28:00 UTC+1, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <f9175eed-f332-4d34...@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
    generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. >>>>
    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
    some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.
    A traditional approach is to silver-plate the copper. Silver is
    cheaper than gold too.

    Joe Gwinn

    At microwave frequencies plated silver often has worse conductivity than copper.
    The surface finish of the plating tends to be irregular which increases the length
    of the surface.

    John


    The first RF thing I ever made for hire (1981) was a 12-GHz microwave absorption cavity for a phase-noise measurement setup. I still have it
    on my windowsill at the lab.

    It was machined from solid OFHC copper, and then electroless-copper
    plated to improve its surface conductivity.

    The inside of the cavity is still very shiny-looking, 40 years later.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to bill....@ieee.org on Sun Jul 17 13:48:20 2022
    On Saturday, 16 July 2022 at 15:02:01 UTC+2, bill....@ieee.org wrote:
    On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 10:17:56 PM UTC+10, upsid...@downunder.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 08:09:50 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting >resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too.
    If you go to the trouble of setting up a grid system. Stick a battery bank next to you solar cells and/or windmill and you need a much smaller grid,and less wire.
    The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.
    Long runs tend to be cheaper if you convert to higher voltage and lower current for the long run, and convert back down again at the point of use. The utility companies having been doing this for a century or so now.
    In India, they make TVs, computers and kitchen utilities that operate
    from 48 Vdc. These are intended for small local village nets driven by solar panels (e.g. four 12 V panels). This avoids much of the DC/AC/DC conversion losses.
    The main point is that telephone systems used to be set up around a stack of four 12V lead-acid cells, so 48V is a kind of industry standard. Lead acid cells aren't as good as lithium ion cells, but if you can sell good old-fashioned lead acid
    batteries why spend time and energy on offering a better system?

    Individual solar cells produce a roughly hyperbolic current versus voltage curve. You get maximum power by operating at about 0.46V.

    You can stack 36 of them to get an array that will charge a 12V lead acid battery. Running a smaller number into an inverter and using mark-to-space modulation to tweak the voltage step-up can let you get close to optimal performance, but that takes
    design work.

    People tend to avoid doing that, if they can get away without it.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney
    --individual solar cells produce a roughly hyperbolic current versus voltage curve. You get maximum power by operating at about 0.46V.

    Solar cell - Wikipedia
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_cell

    Individual solar cell devices are often the electrical building blocks of photovoltaic modules, known colloquially as solar panels. The common single junction silicon solar cell can produce a maximum open-circuit voltage of approximately 0.5 volts to 0.6
    volts.

    so for 60-cell solar panel I get 30V nominal output

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From boB@21:1/5 to jrwalliker@gmail.com on Sun Jul 17 23:23:20 2022
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 13:28:03 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, 17 July 2022 at 20:28:00 UTC+1, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >> ><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <f9175eed-f332-4d34...@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
    generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make
    some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.
    A traditional approach is to silver-plate the copper. Silver is
    cheaper than gold too.

    Joe Gwinn

    At microwave frequencies plated silver often has worse conductivity than copper.
    The surface finish of the plating tends to be irregular which increases the length
    of the surface.

    John

    Interesting ! And makes sense with waveguide being so smooth and all.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 18 07:06:58 2022
    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <pth8dh1osgj6lsgkifehtkji10jsufd54q@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in >><f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >>some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

    Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
    Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
    but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
    tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans..
    google 'cantenna'.

    For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


    Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
    Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

    My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically >operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
    wind my own.

    What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Mon Jul 18 07:07:50 2022
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><pth8dh1osgj6lsgkifehtkji10jsufd54q@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >>><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in >>><f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>>>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. >>>>
    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >>>some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

    Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
    Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
    but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
    tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans.. >google 'cantenna'.

    For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


    Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
    Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

    My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically >>operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
    wind my own.

    What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?

    My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It's for aircraft equipment
    testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some
    alternators get into the mid audio range.

    I'll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.

    The Pockels Cell driver was SiC.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John S@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Mon Jul 18 11:58:08 2022
    On 7/15/2022 1:30 PM, John Robertson wrote:

    On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385


    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have to adapt.

    Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking.

    Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

    Like we've been doing since our distant ancestors left the trees!

    John :-#)#

    We've been mining the asteroids? When? Which one?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Mon Jul 18 17:11:11 2022
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.



    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
    strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
    through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one

    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:

    https://www.brilliantearth.com/lab-created-diamonds/

    Not that long ago the only colour of synthetic diamond was yellow since
    they couldn't prevent nitrogen impurities getting in but today you can
    have most any colour you like including water clear.

    Technology for making them is not unlike some semiconductor processes
    but with rather more aggressive conditions!

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to John S on Mon Jul 18 10:25:58 2022
    On 07/18/2022 09:58 AM, John S wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 1:30 PM, John Robertson wrote:

    On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385


    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have
    to adapt.

    Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking.

    Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

    Like we've been doing since our distant ancestors left the trees!

    John :-#)#

    We've been mining the asteroids? When? Which one?

    https://www.cnet.com/pictures/swords-from-the-stars-weapons-forged-from-meteoric-iron/6/

    Sort of...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 18 09:32:50 2022
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds. >>>


    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
    strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
    through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
    isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 18 09:38:00 2022
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 16.08.01 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened >jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <pth8dh1osgj6lsgki...@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >>><whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <f9175eed-f332-4d34...@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >>>>> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>>>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. >>>>
    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >>>some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

    Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
    Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
    but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
    tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans.. >google 'cantenna'.

    For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


    Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters? >>Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

    My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically >>operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to >>wind my own.

    What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?
    My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It's for aircraft equipment
    testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some
    alternators get into the mid audio range.

    I'll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.

    how happy are they in linear mode? the datasheet SOA doesn't show DC

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 18 16:39:29 2022
    On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:07:50 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <brpadh1iiiht69se2thu7vb46bbbv37vvr@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened >>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >><pth8dh1osgj6lsgkifehtkji10jsufd54q@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >>>><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in >>>><f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >>>>>> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>>>>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. >>>>>
    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >>>>some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

    Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
    Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
    but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
    tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans.. >>google 'cantenna'.

    For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


    Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters? >>>Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

    My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically >>>operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to >>>wind my own.

    What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?

    My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It's for aircraft equipment
    testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some
    alternators get into the mid audio range.

    OK that thing, I thought you mentioned GHz

    I'll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.

    Impressive specs..
    Yes downloaded the datasheet, Ciss is a bit too big for GHz :-)
    RthJC is .28 max...
    That by itself at 446 W is alrady 116 degrees C..



    The Pockels Cell driver was SiC.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to langwadt@fonz.dk on Mon Jul 18 10:17:44 2022
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:00 -0700 (PDT), Lasse Langwadt Christensen <langwadt@fonz.dk> wrote:

    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 16.08.01 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <pth8dh1osgj6lsgki...@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <f9175eed-f332-4d34...@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and
    generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. >> >>>>
    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >> >>>some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

    Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
    Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
    but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
    tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans..
    google 'cantenna'.

    For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


    Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters?
    Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

    My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically
    operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to
    wind my own.

    What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?
    My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It's for aircraft equipment
    testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some
    alternators get into the mid audio range.

    I'll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.

    how happy are they in linear mode? the datasheet SOA doesn't show DC

    Yeah, switcher-rated fets can blow up at low power in linear mode.
    This one is good for a kilowatt dissipation for 10 ms, and we'll be
    running at 100 watts max DC per fet. It might be prudent to limit the
    peak voltage to 250 maybe to keep low in the SOAR.

    We'll test it for sure. Our FPGA will snoop voltage and current pretty
    often so it can protect the fets.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/4nxm7m2q3j3buvc/ExFets.jpg?raw=1

    We filled a coffee cup with blown-up fets when we designed our big NMR
    gradient driver.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Mon Jul 18 11:17:01 2022
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 16:39:29 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:07:50 -0700) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><brpadh1iiiht69se2thu7vb46bbbv37vvr@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 07:06:58 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 10:36:09 -0700) it happened >>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >>><pth8dh1osgj6lsgkifehtkji10jsufd54q@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:37:59 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >>>>><whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in >>>>><f9175eed-f332-4d34-ae3f-a0740dbbb72an@googlegroups.com>:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they >>>>>>> could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>>>>>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however, >>>>>>and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets. >>>>>>
    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."


    I wonder with high frequency transformers if the skin effect would make >>>>>some other metal than copper coated with say gold a solution.

    Dunno, I know about tubes as waveguides in GHz stuff.
    Not sure the coating on the inside (if any) matters much (somebody will correct me I am sure),
    but smooth surface is better (no reflections)
    tried everything from alu chimney pipes to soldered together food cans.. >>>google 'cantenna'.

    For lower frequency coils at up to to a few hundred MHz I always use silvered wire.


    Aren't copper tubes, optionally water cooled, use in transmitters? >>>>Anything below skin depth is a waste of copper.

    My Pockels Cell driver fried several commercial inductors technically >>>>operating within their specs, from skin and proximity effects. Had to >>>>wind my own.

    What FET do you use for that high power variable programmable GHz load?

    My load board works at KHz, not GHz. It's for aircraft equipment
    testing, and the most common frequencies are DC and 400 Hz. Some >>alternators get into the mid audio range.

    OK that thing, I thought you mentioned GHz

    I'll use four of IRFPS37N50A, which spec at 446 watts each.

    Impressive specs..
    Yes downloaded the datasheet, Ciss is a bit too big for GHz :-)
    RthJC is .28 max...
    That by itself at 446 W is alrady 116 degrees C..


    We'll have 4 fets on the CPU cooler. In DC mode, each fet will
    dissipate 100 watts max. Dumping power from an AC source, each
    dissipates 50 watts.

    The decision to make is, how hot can we allow the cooler to get? 75C?
    95C? That determines our max power spec, which is still TBD.

    The cooler itself seems to be about 0.25 K/W at max fan speed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 18 19:21:31 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    I call bullshit on this, same with any other weird future crisis. None of the claims are anything but
    laughable. I like the "data processing and storage" theory of where all the copper is going now.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Cydrome Leader@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 18 23:01:06 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 11:49:11 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:09:57 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    If you only consider big-scale projects, superconducting motors and >>generators are small, with low copper content, and kilohertz transformers are likewise
    compact and need less wire volume. Copper's ductility, however,
    and wire-drawing technology, are always going to be engineering assets.

    "Gold is for the mistress, silver for the maid, copper for the craftsman, cunning at his trade..."

    These are cool:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/08w3pg72wml0eac/PL300.jpg?raw=1

    Kapton pcb windings. Good for 300 watts, more with some air.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ed8o1h3v8gptvul/SER2918.jpg?raw=1

    How can they wind that inductor?

    You can edgewind copper strip. Copper is one of the best examples of malleable that there is.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Tue Jul 19 08:09:26 2022
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds. >>>>>


    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
    strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
    through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
    isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic

    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Tue Jul 19 00:38:17 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:09:33 PM UTC+10, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    <snip>

    There are plenty of diamonds. For a long time the DeBeers have had a >>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go >>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one.

    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic.

    The local newspaper did a commercial puff for diamond jewellery and claimed that al the vapour deposited synthetic stones were laser-marked.

    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

    Sounds plausible but built-in features would be easier and cheaper to find.

    Natural C-14 shows up at the the roughly one part per trillion level, so you have to volatilise a trillion C-12 atoms to see just one C-14 atom in freshly photosynthesised carbon-containing compound. This still isn't all that much, but you are looking
    for needle in a haystack.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Tue Jul 19 07:19:12 2022
    Martin Brown wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of
    diamonds.



    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
    strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
    through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
    isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic

    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.


    Nah, you just make the new ones out of coal. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Tue Jul 19 06:21:36 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 9:19:24 PM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Martin Brown wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of
    diamonds.



    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a >>>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go >>>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one

    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
    isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) >>
    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic

    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

    Nah, you just make the new ones out of coal. ;)

    IIRR you grow gem quaiity diamonds by plasma enhanced chemical vapour deposition, from a stream of hydrogen and methane (mainly hydrogen). Natural gas is mostly methane, and it's spent long enough underground to be just as short of C-14 as coal. Turning
    coal into methane would be a waste of effort.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Les Cargill@21:1/5 to rbowman on Thu Jul 21 21:06:11 2022
    rbowman wrote:
    On 07/18/2022 09:58 AM, John S wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 1:30 PM, John Robertson wrote:

    On 2022/07/15 8:09 a.m., jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385



    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.


    Time to invest in copper mines I guess...and humans will simply have
    to adapt.

    Or some genius will notice something we've been overlooking.

    Or at some point it will become cost effective to mine the asteroids.

    Like we've been doing since our distant ancestors left the trees!

    John :-#)#

    We've been mining the asteroids? When? Which one?

    https://www.cnet.com/pictures/swords-from-the-stars-weapons-forged-from-meteoric-iron/6/


    Sort of...

    Ah, the Terry Pratchett sword. Great story.

    --
    Les Cargill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From none) (albert@21:1/5 to '''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk on Mon Jul 25 11:59:41 2022
    In article <tb5lb6$74n$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds. >>>>>>


    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a
    strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go
    through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
    isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them)

    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic

    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

    The artificially created diamonds are actually better.
    The propaganda to use "real" diamonds faces a loosing battle.


    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown
    --
    "in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
    alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
    die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
    albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to albert on Mon Jul 25 07:46:09 2022
    albert wrote:
    In article <tb5lb6$74n$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds. >>>>>>>


    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a >>>>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go >>>>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
    isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) >>>
    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic

    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

    The artificially created diamonds are actually better.
    The propaganda to use "real" diamonds faces a loosing battle.

    I remember when De Beers et al. were pushing "expert suggestions" that
    the right price for an engagement ring was _four_month's_pay_.

    Hint: the right sort of girl to marry is the sort who'd be charmed by
    the idea, and then give you a dope slap for making her start out married
    life in a financial hole that large.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Mon Jul 25 06:52:34 2022
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:46:09 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    albert wrote:
    In article <tb5lb6$74n$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery:
    In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on
    asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds. >>>>>>>>


    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a >>>>>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go >>>>>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond
    isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) >>>>
    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic

    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

    The artificially created diamonds are actually better.
    The propaganda to use "real" diamonds faces a loosing battle.

    I remember when De Beers et al. were pushing "expert suggestions" that
    the right price for an engagement ring was _four_month's_pay_.

    Hint: the right sort of girl to marry is the sort who'd be charmed by
    the idea, and then give you a dope slap for making her start out married
    life in a financial hole that large.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    A wedding could cost 10 months pay. Ours cost $20, and another $25 for
    the wedding feast afterwards.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 25 09:17:00 2022
    On 7/25/2022 8:52 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:46:09 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    albert wrote:
    In article <tb5lb6$74n$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery: >>>>>>>> In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...
    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on >>>>>>>>> asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.



    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a >>>>>>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go >>>>>>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.
    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:

    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond >>>>> isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) >>>>>
    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic
    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.
    The artificially created diamonds are actually better.
    The propaganda to use "real" diamonds faces a loosing battle.
    I remember when De Beers et al. were pushing "expert suggestions" that
    the right price for an engagement ring was _four_month's_pay_.

    Hint: the right sort of girl to marry is the sort who'd be charmed by
    the idea, and then give you a dope slap for making her start out married
    life in a financial hole that large.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs
    A wedding could cost 10 months pay. Ours cost $20, and another $25 for
    the wedding feast afterwards.

     I told my daughter early on when she decides to get married, to just
    elope and I'd give her $20k for the down payment on a house.
    She married a guy in the military, they bought a house with a zero down mortgage. I funded both of their Roths, then he found a girlfriend
    she divorced him and he will retire with my funds, but he's probably
    stupid enough to spend it. She's married again, they paid for a
    very nice wedding on the beach in front of a place they rented that
    sleeps 37 people and every one stayed a day or two, best party I have
    every been to.
     She has now graduated as a dentist, this how I like to think about.
    https://tinyurl.com/3zcbntax    :-)
                          Mikek


    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to amdx on Mon Jul 25 07:32:55 2022
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 09:17:00 -0500, amdx <amdx@knology.net> wrote:

    On 7/25/2022 8:52 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:46:09 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    albert wrote:
    In article <tb5lb6$74n$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery: >>>>>>>>> In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...
    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on >>>>>>>>>> asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.



    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a >>>>>>>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go >>>>>>>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up. >>>>>>>> and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough, >>>>>>>> you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:

    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond >>>>>> isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) >>>>>>
    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them >>>>>> so you can tell it is synthetic
    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.
    The artificially created diamonds are actually better.
    The propaganda to use "real" diamonds faces a loosing battle.
    I remember when De Beers et al. were pushing "expert suggestions" that
    the right price for an engagement ring was _four_month's_pay_.

    Hint: the right sort of girl to marry is the sort who'd be charmed by
    the idea, and then give you a dope slap for making her start out married >>> life in a financial hole that large.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs
    A wedding could cost 10 months pay. Ours cost $20, and another $25 for
    the wedding feast afterwards.

    It was sweet. A really nice lady in a black robe married us in the
    beautiful rotunda of SF City Hall. That was the $20. Stars Cafe was
    the feast.



    I told my daughter early on when she decides to get married, to just
    elope and I'd give her $20k for the down payment on a house.
    She married a guy in the military, they bought a house with a zero down >mortgage. I funded both of their Roths, then he found a girlfriend
    she divorced him and he will retire with my funds, but he's probably
    stupid enough to spend it. She's married again, they paid for a
    very nice wedding on the beach in front of a place they rented that
    sleeps 37 people and every one stayed a day or two, best party I have
    every been to.
    She has now graduated as a dentist, this how I like to think about.
    https://tinyurl.com/3zcbntax :-)
    Mikek

    (401 on that link.)

    I paid for two daughters' pretty-big weddings, one in Austin and one
    on a golf course near Lake Tahoe. The bride and groom came down the
    isle in a golf cart and almost wiped out a couple of bridesmaids.
    Austin, I mostly remember the mosquitoes.

    So far, neither looks to need another guy.

    Girls are cute but expensive.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerhard Hoffmann@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 25 17:22:26 2022
    Am 25.07.22 um 15:52 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:46:09 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    albert wrote:
    In article <tb5lb6$74n$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery: >>>>>>>> In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on >>>>>>>>> asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.



    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a >>>>>>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go >>>>>>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond >>>>> isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) >>>>>
    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic

    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

    The artificially created diamonds are actually better.
    The propaganda to use "real" diamonds faces a loosing battle.

    I remember when De Beers et al. were pushing "expert suggestions" that
    the right price for an engagement ring was _four_month's_pay_.

    Hint: the right sort of girl to marry is the sort who'd be charmed by
    the idea, and then give you a dope slap for making her start out married
    life in a financial hole that large.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    A wedding could cost 10 months pay. Ours cost $20, and another $25 for
    the wedding feast afterwards.


    My brother's divorce did cost in a similar range. Both he and
    she were fully qualified lawyers, albeit working in completely
    different fields. First, they moved the material stuff to a
    different treaty, zeroing the financial value of the case. Then
    my brother represented both himself and and his ex as a lawyer.
    Net result was just the writing cost of the court.

    Such a thing takes some discipline.

    Gerhard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 25 11:28:32 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:46:09 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    albert wrote:
    In article <tb5lb6$74n$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Martin Brown <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery: >>>>>>>> In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on >>>>>>>>> asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of diamonds.



    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have had a >>>>>>>> strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had to go >>>>>>>> through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up.

    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough,
    you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond >>>>> isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on them) >>>>>
    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them
    so you can tell it is synthetic

    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

    The artificially created diamonds are actually better.
    The propaganda to use "real" diamonds faces a loosing battle.

    I remember when De Beers et al. were pushing "expert suggestions" that
    the right price for an engagement ring was _four_month's_pay_.

    Hint: the right sort of girl to marry is the sort who'd be charmed by
    the idea, and then give you a dope slap for making her start out married
    life in a financial hole that large.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    A wedding could cost 10 months pay. Ours cost $20, and another $25 for
    the wedding feast afterwards.


    Ours was fairly cheap too--$750 for the hall (Cecil Green Park at UBC),
    $500 for the band, $150 for the officiant, and all catered by relatives.

    Best wedding I was ever at, just about 39 years ago. According to Isaac Asimov, he used to introduce people to "Janet, my first wife." (Neither married more than once.)

    She always responded, "Oh, Isaac."

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Gerhard Hoffmann on Mon Jul 25 11:31:50 2022
    Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 25.07.22 um 15:52 schrieb jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    On Mon, 25 Jul 2022 07:46:09 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    albert wrote:
    In article <tb5lb6$74n$2@gioia.aioe.org>,
    Martin Brown  <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:
    On 18/07/2022 17:32, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    mandag den 18. juli 2022 kl. 18.11.19 UTC+2 skrev Martin Brown:
    On 16/07/2022 16:29, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    lørdag den 16. juli 2022 kl. 17.18.32 UTC+2 skrev Ralph Mowery: >>>>>>>>> In article <b3h5dhlvkucvi0cuh...@4ax.com>,
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com says...

    That sounds tricky. If there were tons of gold or diamonds on >>>>>>>>>> asteroids or on the moon, would it be worth harvesting?

    Of course, getting lots of diamonds would crash the price of >>>>>>>>>> diamonds.



    There are plenty of diamons. For a long time the DeBeers have >>>>>>>>> had a
    strangle hold on them. Almost all diamonds worth anything had >>>>>>>>> to go
    through them. They only let so many out to keep the price up. >>>>>>>>
    and convinced people that "used" diamonds are not good enough, >>>>>>>> you have to get a new one
    They are running scared of the synthetic diamond producers now:


    and tried their best to convinced everyone that the synthetic diamond >>>>>> isn't quite as good as the real thing (I guess not enough blood on >>>>>> them)

    And that manufacturers of synthetic diamonds should lasermark them >>>>>> so you can tell it is synthetic

    I reckon you could tell them apart by mass spectrometry or
    radioactivity. True old diamonds will be severely C14 depleted.

    The artificially created diamonds are actually better.
    The propaganda to use "real" diamonds faces a loosing battle.

    I remember when De Beers et al. were pushing "expert suggestions" that
    the right price for an engagement ring was _four_month's_pay_.

    Hint: the right sort of girl to marry is the sort who'd be charmed by
    the idea, and then give you a dope slap for making her start out married >>> life in a financial hole that large.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    A wedding could cost 10 months pay. Ours cost $20, and another $25 for
    the wedding feast afterwards.


    My brother's divorce did cost in a similar range. Both he and
    she were fully qualified lawyers, albeit working in completely
    different fields. First, they moved the material stuff to a
    different treaty, zeroing the financial value of the case. Then
    my brother represented both himself and and his ex as a lawyer.
    Net result was just the writing cost of the court.

    Such a thing takes some discipline.

    Gerhard

    So does staying married.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amal banerjee@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Jul 26 04:41:11 2022
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:39:57 PM UTC+5:30, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.
    Maybe we the solid state guys should start looking ar graphene. Already
    light weight but extremely strong sports equipment are being made with
    this material. The base material for gtaphene is abundant(compared to
    copper) and processing it much simpler.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to daku...@gmail.com on Tue Jul 26 06:35:08 2022
    On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 9:41:15 PM UTC+10, daku...@gmail.com wrote:
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 8:39:57 PM UTC+5:30, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.

    Maybe we the solid state guys should start looking ar graphene. Already light weight but extremely strong sports equipment are being made with
    this material. The base material for gtaphene is abundant(compared to copper) and processing it much simpler.

    Carbon nanotubes are just rolled up graphene, though they tend also to be described as stretched out buckyballs. Loads of people have looked at them, but commercial quantities of properly insulated cable with connectors on either end still seem to be
    some way off.

    Sticking metal atoms in the centre of the nanotube is another trick that does interesting stuff in the lab but hasn't yet lent itself to mass production either.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon_nanotube

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Tue Jul 26 09:16:41 2022
    On 7/15/2022 9:34 PM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 12:00:57 PM UTC+10, Jasen Betts wrote:
    On 2022-07-15, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 11:09 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://gizmodo.com/a-copper-shortage-is-likely-coming-for-the-energy-trans-1849178385

    Motor and transformer design are pretty advanced. I wonder if they
    could be made with more electronics and less copper somehow.
    Electrostatic motors miss by an enormous factor.

    As Africa and Asia advance and electrify, copper might be a limiting
    resource. Solar and wind power need a lot of copper for power
    gathering too. The numbers there could be interesting, lots of long
    runs at relatively low voltage and power, used at low duty cycle.

    It's unfortunate that adding copper to aluminum (most abundant metal) or >>> aluminum to copper basically makes either one way worse than if you'd
    left it pure.

    Like you'd think by adding say 10% aluminum to copper you'd get a wire
    that was some small percentage less conductive than copper but still
    retained most of copper's other nice properties, but IIRC it basically
    ruins it and above some pretty low percentage aluminum you can't pull a
    copper/aluminum alloy into a wire, anyway.
    So don't mix, CCA works quite well for many tasks.
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Copper-clad_aluminium_wire

    Room-temperature super-conductors have got to be the long term solution, but nobody has yet set up a long-distance power cable with even a high-temperature super-conductor.

    The initial hype about fullerene nanotubes hasn't lead to any commercial products yet. Maybe it will eventually.

    John Larkin will ignore it as marketing hype right up to the point where he can buy reels of the stuff from DigiKey.

    Just as a point of interest, in Panama City Fl. we have a port. There
    are many semi trucks coming out of the port with 5 stacks of copper plates evenly dispersed on the trailer. They are 12" to 18" tall.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

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