• ot economics, bad

    From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 14 07:59:23 2022
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and corruption.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 14 09:19:42 2022
    torsdag den 14. juli 2022 kl. 16.59.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters inflation.

    if you have cash in the bank inflation makes that money shrink in value,
    so increase the interest rates making that money increase in value ...

    Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    or you got it backwards

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Thu Jul 14 12:36:56 2022
    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    torsdag den 14. juli 2022 kl. 16.59.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation.

    if you have cash in the bank inflation makes that money shrink in value,
    so increase the interest rates making that money increase in value ...

    Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    or you got it backwards



    In normal times, when people actually own things, increasing real
    interest rates makes it more attractive to save money, which defers
    demand. It also reduces investment, because a new venture has to be
    that much more lucrative to be worth doing.

    In a world where everything is ridiculously leveraged after years and
    years of near-zero real rates and an orgy of printing money that went
    into asset price bubbles, raising rates is going to be inflationary
    initially.

    It's when real estate starts getting foreclosed on, people's cars get
    repo'ed, and margin calls get issued that we can get on with the very
    painful and messy business of deleveraging all of that.

    Of course, rate increases directly affect the sustainability of the
    ridiculous levels of sovereign (and near-sovereign) debt.

    Getting out of this one is not going to be painless.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Thu Jul 14 10:00:02 2022
    On Thursday, 14 July 2022 at 18:37:08 UTC+2, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    torsdag den 14. juli 2022 kl. 16.59.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation.

    if you have cash in the bank inflation makes that money shrink in value,
    so increase the interest rates making that money increase in value ...

    Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    or you got it backwards


    In normal times, when people actually own things, increasing real
    interest rates makes it more attractive to save money, which defers
    demand. It also reduces investment, because a new venture has to be
    that much more lucrative to be worth doing.

    In a world where everything is ridiculously leveraged after years and
    years of near-zero real rates and an orgy of printing money that went
    into asset price bubbles, raising rates is going to be inflationary initially.

    It's when real estate starts getting foreclosed on, people's cars get repo'ed, and margin calls get issued that we can get on with the very
    painful and messy business of deleveraging all of that.

    Of course, rate increases directly affect the sustainability of the ridiculous levels of sovereign (and near-sovereign) debt.

    Getting out of this one is not going to be painless.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs
    it's easy
    china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    cash is what makes us happy

    if interest rates are at Zero level, it's easy to get cash from a bank, since overheads are low.
    So markets are flooded with cheap money (cash)
    making us all happy.

    This is an official version, theory,
    but in practice
    central bank emits unlimited flow of cash to perform some secrete business operations home and in abroad, to control the globe via oil, natural gas contracts, future options

    So central bank should be described as cassino
    which lets us win one day to make you looser on another day

    If you sell $Bs in credits, as central bank does, at Zero level interest rates for 5-10 years to attract borrowers,
    raising interest rates generates huge profit with any risk or extra effort

    Keep in mind, money ( cash) is manufactured by central bank, exactly the same way, Elon manufactures Teslas

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Thu Jul 14 11:57:10 2022
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 12:36:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    torsdag den 14. juli 2022 kl. 16.59.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation.

    if you have cash in the bank inflation makes that money shrink in value,
    so increase the interest rates making that money increase in value ...

    Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    or you got it backwards



    In normal times, when people actually own things, increasing real
    interest rates makes it more attractive to save money, which defers
    demand. It also reduces investment, because a new venture has to be
    that much more lucrative to be worth doing.

    In a world where everything is ridiculously leveraged after years and
    years of near-zero real rates and an orgy of printing money that went
    into asset price bubbles, raising rates is going to be inflationary >initially.

    It's when real estate starts getting foreclosed on, people's cars get >repo'ed, and margin calls get issued that we can get on with the very
    painful and messy business of deleveraging all of that.

    Of course, rate increases directly affect the sustainability of the >ridiculous levels of sovereign (and near-sovereign) debt.

    Getting out of this one is not going to be painless.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    We'll need a Giant Reset. That's going to hurt.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 14 16:44:39 2022
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    ,<https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/>

    .<https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html>

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >inflation.

    Phil Hobbs explained the theory, but there is also a animal spirits
    rationale - one must also break the cycle, which requires strong
    enough policies to *cause* a recession. The recession is a necessary
    feature, not just an annoying byproduct. So, no "soft landing".

    In the 1980s, Ronald Reagan ended the inflation of the Carter years by
    allowing Paul Volker to cause a well-timed recession. Which ended
    after two years, and was over by the time Reagan ran for re-election,
    on a rising economy.

    The papers were saying 9.1% inflation in the US today. Carter peaked
    at ~14%, and loans were 21%. This is when I disintermediated, moving
    my savings (at 5.25%) out of a local bank into few-year US Treasury
    Bills (which had just become available to non-millionaires, at more
    like 15%, never to return.


    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >corruption.

    Well, yes, but to somewhat differing degrees. The difference being
    that in the US the population can dismiss a government rather easier
    than in China, certainly with far less bloodshed.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Thu Jul 14 18:54:15 2022
    On 7/14/2022 10:59 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:



    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and corruption.

    Lamestream media:

    <https://i.redd.it/9skgfml89hb91.jpg>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu Jul 14 18:38:47 2022
    On 7/14/2022 2:57 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 12:36:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    torsdag den 14. juli 2022 kl. 16.59.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation.

    if you have cash in the bank inflation makes that money shrink in value, >>> so increase the interest rates making that money increase in value ...

    Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    or you got it backwards



    In normal times, when people actually own things, increasing real
    interest rates makes it more attractive to save money, which defers
    demand. It also reduces investment, because a new venture has to be
    that much more lucrative to be worth doing.

    In a world where everything is ridiculously leveraged after years and
    years of near-zero real rates and an orgy of printing money that went
    into asset price bubbles, raising rates is going to be inflationary
    initially.

    It's when real estate starts getting foreclosed on, people's cars get
    repo'ed, and margin calls get issued that we can get on with the very
    painful and messy business of deleveraging all of that.

    Of course, rate increases directly affect the sustainability of the
    ridiculous levels of sovereign (and near-sovereign) debt.

    Getting out of this one is not going to be painless.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    We'll need a Giant Reset. That's going to hurt.


    Gosh I hope someone manages to save all the landlords. Without their
    valuable check-cashing skills I have no idea how we'll survive as a society.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bitrex on Thu Jul 14 18:09:33 2022
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 18:38:47 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/14/2022 2:57 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 12:36:56 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    torsdag den 14. juli 2022 kl. 16.59.30 UTC+2 skrev jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation.

    if you have cash in the bank inflation makes that money shrink in value, >>>> so increase the interest rates making that money increase in value ... >>>>
    Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    or you got it backwards



    In normal times, when people actually own things, increasing real
    interest rates makes it more attractive to save money, which defers
    demand. It also reduces investment, because a new venture has to be
    that much more lucrative to be worth doing.

    In a world where everything is ridiculously leveraged after years and
    years of near-zero real rates and an orgy of printing money that went
    into asset price bubbles, raising rates is going to be inflationary
    initially.

    It's when real estate starts getting foreclosed on, people's cars get
    repo'ed, and margin calls get issued that we can get on with the very
    painful and messy business of deleveraging all of that.

    Of course, rate increases directly affect the sustainability of the
    ridiculous levels of sovereign (and near-sovereign) debt.

    Getting out of this one is not going to be painless.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    We'll need a Giant Reset. That's going to hurt.


    Gosh I hope someone manages to save all the landlords. Without their
    valuable check-cashing skills I have no idea how we'll survive as a society.

    We don't need landlords. People can live just fine in tents.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Les Cargill@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 15 18:13:42 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:



    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* inflation.


    Related but not equivalent:

    "The act of raising interest rates is generally a signal of
    disinflationary intent, but periods of rising interest rates are often inflationary (i.e. the 1960s and 1970s). "

    https://www.themoneyillusion.com/nick-rowe-on-interest-rates-and-inflation/

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and corruption.


    Politics means a variation on bad spaghetti dinners for months on
    end. Think about the sort that attracts. ( stolen from PJ
    O'Rourke )

    The Chinese at least draw on engineers for their political class.

    --
    Les Cargill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Les Cargill@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri Jul 15 18:23:57 2022
    Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    torsdag den 14. juli 2022 kl. 16.59.30 UTC+2 skrev
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com:
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/


    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html


    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation.

    if you have cash in the bank inflation makes that money shrink in value,
    so increase the interest rates making that money increase in value ...

    Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    or you got it backwards



    In normal times, when people actually own things, increasing real
    interest rates makes it more attractive to save money, which defers
    demand.  It also reduces investment, because a new venture has to be
    that much more lucrative to be worth doing.

    In a world where everything is ridiculously leveraged after years and
    years of near-zero real rates and an orgy of printing money that went
    into asset price bubbles, raising rates is going to be inflationary initially.

    It's when real estate starts getting foreclosed on, people's cars get repo'ed, and margin calls get issued that we can get on with the very
    painful and messy business of deleveraging all of that.

    Of course, rate increases directly affect the sustainability of the ridiculous levels of sovereign (and near-sovereign) debt.


    As it used to be said - "where are the bond vigilantes"? There should
    be market based action if the debt is too much.

    Global uncertainty makes the dollar and US bonds look better.

    Getting out of this one is not going to be painless.


    I actually think we're at the cusp of a small renaissance. The level of
    unused human potential right now is staggering.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    The other side is that low interest rates provide one method of keeping
    zombie firms alive and zombie firms directly attenuate productive capacity.

    Throw in the sheer volume of VC money not going to anything of very much utility - in particular the iron triangle of phone "tech", engagement
    and ads.

    Even if you get firms rising, they want to be private equity now and
    that's usually a recipe for bad governance. Not always.

    But the frontier of new technology is very troubled right now for lots
    of reasons. The so-called "tech sector" is mainly that way to mark time.

    There's ML this and that but applications are weird at best. But
    it beats learning to do real work I suppose.

    --
    Les Cargill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Les Cargill on Fri Jul 15 18:07:30 2022
    On 07/15/2022 05:13 PM, Les Cargill wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:



    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/


    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html


    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.


    Related but not equivalent:

    "The act of raising interest rates is generally a signal of
    disinflationary intent, but periods of rising interest rates are often inflationary (i.e. the 1960s and 1970s). "

    https://www.themoneyillusion.com/nick-rowe-on-interest-rates-and-inflation/

    https://www.thebalance.com/who-is-paul-volcker-3306157

    I doubt the current crew has balls the size of Volcker so they'll most
    likely go for the Hayes yo-yo approach.

    Disclaimer: my one course in economics used Samuelson so I know nothing
    except some dimly remembered Keynesian mysticism.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jul 16 06:41:30 2022
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 18:13:42 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargil99@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:



    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.


    Related but not equivalent:

    "The act of raising interest rates is generally a signal of
    disinflationary intent, but periods of rising interest rates are often >inflationary (i.e. the 1960s and 1970s). "

    https://www.themoneyillusion.com/nick-rowe-on-interest-rates-and-inflation/


    "That’s also my ultimate thing. Keynesianism is another example of how
    this can go badly wrong. Not ideal New Keynesianism, but actual, real
    world Keynesianism."

    Ah, humor.


    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.


    Politics means a variation on bad spaghetti dinners for months on
    end. Think about the sort that attracts. ( stolen from PJ
    O'Rourke )

    I wasn't going to mention this, being off-topic, but you did open the
    issue:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascatelli

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wqsw4gb0714tugr/AADrQVtSGhejmKbmfiSWkeswa?dl=0

    I boiled it for 18 minutes, near sea level. Try it.


    The Chinese at least draw on engineers for their political class.

    I know. That's embarassing. Muslim terrorist bombers are often
    educated as engineers.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 17 18:00:46 2022
    On 15/7/22 00:59, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* inflation.

    The biggest chunk of domestic budgets is housing costs.

    Raising interest rates increases mortgage outgoings (and more slowly,
    rental prices) so reduces available discretionary spending. That reduces
    demand for goods, which pushes prices down.

    So goes the theory anyhow

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to no_spam@please.net on Sun Jul 17 06:52:47 2022
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:00:46 +1000, Clifford Heath
    <no_spam@please.net> wrote:

    On 15/7/22 00:59, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    The biggest chunk of domestic budgets is housing costs.

    And a million or so immigrants per year need somewhere to sleep.


    Raising interest rates increases mortgage outgoings (and more slowly,
    rental prices) so reduces available discretionary spending. That reduces >demand for goods, which pushes prices down.

    So goes the theory anyhow

    I get it. Increasing the price of things reduces the price of things. Economics!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 18 09:38:40 2022
    On 17/7/22 23:52, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:00:46 +1000, Clifford Heath
    Raising interest rates increases mortgage outgoings (and more slowly,
    rental prices) so reduces available discretionary spending. That reduces
    demand for goods, which pushes prices down.

    So goes the theory anyhow
    I get it. Increasing the price of things reduces the price of things.

    Increasing the price of borrowing reduces the price of goods.
    Money is not a "good".

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 17 18:29:44 2022
    On Thursday, July 14, 2022 at 10:59:30 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and corruption.

    "In short, if making monetary policy is like driving a car, then the car is one that has an unreliable speedometer, a foggy windshield, and a tendency to respond unpredictably and with a delay to the accelerator or the brake," former Federal Reserve
    chair Ben Bernanke said in 2004 while still a Fed governor.

    "Interest rates and inflation tend to move in the same direction but with lags, because policymakers require data to estimate future inflation trends, and the interest rates they set take time to fully affect the economy. Higher rates may be needed to
    bring rising inflation under control, while slowing economic growth often lowers the inflation rate and may prompt rate cuts.

    The Fed targets a range of the federal funds rate, in part, by setting the rate it pays on banking reserve balances."

    They've been doing a pretty decent job at this for a few decades at least. The pandemic threw a wrench into the works so what we're seeing now is a lag response. Their financial models are lacking consideration of the human element apparently.

    https://www.investopedia.com/ask/answers/12/inflation-interest-rate-relationship.asp

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jul 17 20:43:27 2022
    On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:29:06 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:40 +1000, Clifford Heath
    <no_...@please.net> wrote:

    On 17/7/22 23:52, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:00:46 +1000, Clifford Heath
    Raising interest rates ...reduces
    demand for goods, which pushes prices down.

    So goes the theory anyhow

    I get it. Increasing the price of things reduces the price of things.

    Increasing the price of borrowing reduces the price of goods.

    Sure. When businesses have to pay more interest, they cut their prices
    to make up for that.
    Money is not a "good".
    Not any more.

    Pricing is about supply and demand. What increased interest does, is make
    the inventory (on which sunk costs are carried as a debt) expensive to keep on the shelf,
    so the seller lowers prices to reduce that operating expense (or perhaps to put money
    into other investments than inventory, which in increased-interest days, get a better return).

    Supply AND demand; you can't just look at one half of the equation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to no_spam@please.net on Sun Jul 17 20:28:56 2022
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:40 +1000, Clifford Heath
    <no_spam@please.net> wrote:

    On 17/7/22 23:52, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:00:46 +1000, Clifford Heath
    Raising interest rates increases mortgage outgoings (and more slowly,
    rental prices) so reduces available discretionary spending. That reduces >>> demand for goods, which pushes prices down.

    So goes the theory anyhow
    I get it. Increasing the price of things reduces the price of things.

    Increasing the price of borrowing reduces the price of goods.

    Sure. When businesses have to pay more interest, they cut their prices
    to make up for that.

    Money is not a "good".

    Not any more.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 18 09:41:18 2022
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:29:06 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:40 +1000, Clifford Heath
    <no_...@please.net> wrote:

    On 17/7/22 23:52, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:00:46 +1000, Clifford Heath
    Raising interest rates ...reduces
    demand for goods, which pushes prices down.

    So goes the theory anyhow

    I get it. Increasing the price of things reduces the price of things.

    Increasing the price of borrowing reduces the price of goods.

    Sure. When businesses have to pay more interest, they cut their prices
    to make up for that.
    Money is not a "good".
    Not any more.

    Pricing is about supply and demand. What increased interest does, is make the inventory (on which sunk costs are carried as a debt) expensive to keep on the shelf,
    so the seller lowers prices to reduce that operating expense (or perhaps to put money
    into other investments than inventory, which in increased-interest days, get a better return).

    Supply AND demand; you can't just look at one half of the equation.


    You're leaving out our main problem, which is wholesale distortion of
    markets by governments, both by money-printing and by intenitonally
    destructive regulations.

    You're also thinking down at DC, where there's an equilibrium that can
    be tweaked slowly enough that things like inventory levels equilibrate
    on their own.

    The axe-swinging idiots that are running the show at the moment make
    sure that's not the case.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Mon Jul 18 06:53:14 2022
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 11:41:25 PM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:29:06 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:40 +1000, Clifford Heath <no_...@please.net> wrote:
    On 17/7/22 23:52, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:00:46 +1000, Clifford Heath

    <snip>

    Supply AND demand; you can't just look at one half of the equation.

    You're leaving out our main problem, which is wholesale distortion of markets by governments, both by money-printing and by intentionally destructive regulations.

    This is the right-wing nit-wit perception. Their idea is that the market always works perfectly, and any attempt to interfere with it's natural tendency to decline into market-fixing cartels is dangerously socialist.

    You're also thinking down at DC, where there's an equilibrium that can
    be tweaked slowly enough that things like inventory levels equilibrate
    on their own.

    The axe-swinging idiots that are running the show at the moment make sure that's not the case.

    “People of the same trade seldom meet together, even for merriment and diversion, but the conversation ends in a conspiracy against the public, or in some contrivance to raise prices.”

    ― Adam Smith, An Inquiry into the Nature and Causes of the Wealth of Nations

    Clearly somebodie's conspiracy against the public hasn't gone as well as he had hoped.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Mon Jul 18 06:59:19 2022
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:41:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:29:06 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:40 +1000, Clifford Heath
    <no_...@please.net> wrote:

    On 17/7/22 23:52, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:00:46 +1000, Clifford Heath
    Raising interest rates ...reduces
    demand for goods, which pushes prices down.

    So goes the theory anyhow

    I get it. Increasing the price of things reduces the price of things.

    Increasing the price of borrowing reduces the price of goods.

    Sure. When businesses have to pay more interest, they cut their prices
    to make up for that.
    Money is not a "good".
    Not any more.

    Pricing is about supply and demand. What increased interest does, is make >> the inventory (on which sunk costs are carried as a debt) expensive to keep on the shelf,
    so the seller lowers prices to reduce that operating expense (or perhaps to put money
    into other investments than inventory, which in increased-interest days, get a better return).

    Supply AND demand; you can't just look at one half of the equation.


    You're leaving out our main problem, which is wholesale distortion of
    markets by governments, both by money-printing and by intenitonally >destructive regulations.

    You're also thinking down at DC, where there's an equilibrium that can
    be tweaked slowly enough that things like inventory levels equilibrate
    on their own.

    The axe-swinging idiots that are running the show at the moment make
    sure that's not the case.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Economists have no clue about causalities, but that dosen't stop them
    from wanting to manage things a trillion dollars at a time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 18 11:39:40 2022
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >corruption.




    Looks like Canadian economists are just as destructive as US ones.

    https://wolfstreet.com/2022/07/18/front-loading-canadas-mortgage-rates-housing-market-react-to-monster-rate-hikes/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 18 15:28:05 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:41:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:29:06 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:40 +1000, Clifford Heath
    <no_...@please.net> wrote:

    On 17/7/22 23:52, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:00:46 +1000, Clifford Heath
    Raising interest rates ...reduces
    demand for goods, which pushes prices down.

    So goes the theory anyhow

    I get it. Increasing the price of things reduces the price of things. >>>
    Increasing the price of borrowing reduces the price of goods.

    Sure. When businesses have to pay more interest, they cut their prices >>>> to make up for that.
    Money is not a "good".
    Not any more.

    Pricing is about supply and demand. What increased interest does, is make >>> the inventory (on which sunk costs are carried as a debt) expensive to keep on the shelf,
    so the seller lowers prices to reduce that operating expense (or perhaps to put money
    into other investments than inventory, which in increased-interest days, get a better return).

    Supply AND demand; you can't just look at one half of the equation.


    You're leaving out our main problem, which is wholesale distortion of
    markets by governments, both by money-printing and by intenitonally
    destructive regulations.

    You're also thinking down at DC, where there's an equilibrium that can
    be tweaked slowly enough that things like inventory levels equilibrate
    on their own.

    The axe-swinging idiots that are running the show at the moment make
    sure that's not the case.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Economists have no clue about causalities, but that dosen't stop them
    from wanting to manage things a trillion dollars at a time.


    Oh, it gets worse: <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 18 18:13:04 2022
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 11:59:31 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:41:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:29:06 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:40 +1000, Clifford Heath <no_...@please.net> wrote:
    On 17/7/22 23:52, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:00:46 +1000, Clifford Heath

    <snip>

    The axe-swinging idiots that are running the show at the moment make
    sure that's not the case.

    Economists have no clue about causalities, but that dosen't stop them from wanting to manage things a trillion dollars at a time.

    John Larkin has no clue about economics, but that doesn't save up from his bizarre opinions.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Jul 18 18:18:11 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:39:51 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >corruption.

    Looks like Canadian economists are just as destructive as US ones.

    https://wolfstreet.com/2022/07/18/front-loading-canadas-mortgage-rates-housing-market-react-to-monster-rate-hikes/

    Wolf Richter is another right wing lunatic, in the Steve Bannon (Breitbart class). They are good at pressing John Larkin's buttons. Less influential with better informed readers.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Mon Jul 18 18:28:25 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:41:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 8:29:06 PM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 09:38:40 +1000, Clifford Heath <no_...@please.net> wrote:
    On 17/7/22 23:52, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 18:00:46 +1000, Clifford Heath

    <snip>

    Supply AND demand; you can't just look at one half of the equation.


    You're leaving out our main problem, which is wholesale distortion of
    markets by governments, both by money-printing and by intenitonally
    destructive regulations.

    You're also thinking down at DC, where there's an equilibrium that can
    be tweaked slowly enough that things like inventory levels equilibrate
    on their own.

    The axe-swinging idiots that are running the show at the moment make
    sure that's not the case.

    Economists have no clue about causalities, but that dosen't stop them
    from wanting to manage things a trillion dollars at a time.

    Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>

    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide victory in the 2019 election was misread by
    him as a people’s mandate to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with his relatives and sycophants.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Wed Jul 20 09:17:04 2022
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>

    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide victory in the 2019 election was misread by
    him as a people’s mandate to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with his relatives and sycophants.

    Even nepotism is survivable in a highly productive economy that isn't
    wasting its productive capacity on war. Corruption and nepotism don't
    guarantee economic failure, but they certainly worsen it when it occurs. Something the USA (which has never *not* been at war) might learn from.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Tue Jul 19 19:10:03 2022
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 9:17:13 AM UTC+10, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>

    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide victory in the 2019 election was misread
    by him as a people’s mandate to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with his relatives and sycophants.

    Even nepotism is survivable in a highly productive economy that isn't wasting its productive capacity on war. Corruption and nepotism don't guarantee economic failure, but they certainly worsen it when it occurs. Something the USA (which has never *not* been at war) might learn from.

    If you put somebody sufficiently incompetent in charge they can wreck even the most productive economy. The problem with nepotism isn't so much that you install completely incompetent managers, as that you can be very reluctant to side-line them when
    it should have become obvious that they urgently needed to be replaced.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 20 07:19:49 2022
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Wed Jul 20 10:19:01 2022
    On 7/19/2022 7:17 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>


    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely
    responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the
    president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide
    victory in the 2019 election was misread by him as a people’s mandate
    to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the
    Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the
    Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is
    demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd
    been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with his
    relatives  and sycophants.

    Even nepotism is survivable in a highly productive economy that isn't
    wasting its productive capacity on war. Corruption and nepotism don't guarantee economic failure, but they certainly worsen it when it occurs. Something the USA (which has never *not* been at war) might learn from.

    Weird how people seem to intuitively understand that sending every
    average Joe $2000 checks semi-regularly is inflationary, but when they
    see that America's billionaires became like 1 trillion dollars wealthier
    over the past two years they figure what. that they just EARNED all that themselves through hard work and not a bit of it was just printed? ????

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Wed Jul 20 10:23:19 2022
    On 7/19/2022 10:10 PM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 20, 2022 at 9:17:13 AM UTC+10, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>

    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide victory in the 2019 election was misread
    by him as a people’s mandate to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with his relatives and sycophants.

    Even nepotism is survivable in a highly productive economy that isn't
    wasting its productive capacity on war. Corruption and nepotism don't
    guarantee economic failure, but they certainly worsen it when it occurs.
    Something the USA (which has never *not* been at war) might learn from.

    If you put somebody sufficiently incompetent in charge they can wreck even the most productive economy. The problem with nepotism isn't so much that you install completely incompetent managers, as that you can be very reluctant to side-line them when
    it should have become obvious that they urgently needed to be replaced.


    Printing money to give to cronies isn't just a hobby in the USA anymore,
    it's been Job #1 for some time.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Jul 20 10:40:58 2022
    On 7/20/2022 10:19 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.


    People that matter protect their own.

    In the USA people that don't matter tend to be heavily propagandized to
    work for the best interests of people that matter:

    <https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5cd99eb82100005800d066d8.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale&format=webp>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Jul 20 08:21:51 2022
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:40:58 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 10:19 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.


    People that matter protect their own.

    In the USA people that don't matter tend to be heavily propagandized to
    work for the best interests of people that matter:

    <https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5cd99eb82100005800d066d8.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale&format=webp>

    Do you pay dues to a union?

    Another wonderful concept: join a union to help export your job.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Jul 20 11:37:16 2022
    On 7/20/2022 11:21 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:40:58 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 10:19 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.


    People that matter protect their own.

    In the USA people that don't matter tend to be heavily propagandized to
    work for the best interests of people that matter:

    <https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5cd99eb82100005800d066d8.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale&format=webp>

    Do you pay dues to a union?

    There isn't any union of freelance hardware/software designers that I
    know of. As far as I can tell most everyone in the field tends to view
    everyone else as competition anyway, how would you even form one to
    begin with.

    I figure a lot of conservatives figure e.g. working in a warehouse
    should work the same way. Whomever is the strongest and can lift the
    heaviest box gets the most box-lifting contracts. Survival of the
    fittest, nature red in tooth and claw and all that. Isn't it all
    wonderfully brutal!

    Another wonderful concept: join a union to help export your job.

    The Clinton president seemed to do that pretty effectively, more
    effectively than unions ever could on their own I think.

    I wasn't old enough to vote in 1996 by a few days so can't hang all that
    on me, neener.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Jul 20 09:07:21 2022
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 11:37:16 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 11:21 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:40:58 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 10:19 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.


    People that matter protect their own.

    In the USA people that don't matter tend to be heavily propagandized to
    work for the best interests of people that matter:

    <https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5cd99eb82100005800d066d8.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale&format=webp>

    Do you pay dues to a union?

    There isn't any union of freelance hardware/software designers that I
    know of. As far as I can tell most everyone in the field tends to view >everyone else as competition anyway, how would you even form one to
    begin with.

    Yeah, it must be discouraging to lose business to people who are
    better programmers than you are.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Jul 20 12:14:56 2022
    On 7/20/2022 12:07 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 11:37:16 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 11:21 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:40:58 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 10:19 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >>>>>> inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.


    People that matter protect their own.

    In the USA people that don't matter tend to be heavily propagandized to >>>> work for the best interests of people that matter:

    <https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5cd99eb82100005800d066d8.jpeg?ops=scalefit_720_noupscale&format=webp>

    Do you pay dues to a union?

    There isn't any union of freelance hardware/software designers that I
    know of. As far as I can tell most everyone in the field tends to view
    everyone else as competition anyway, how would you even form one to
    begin with.

    Yeah, it must be discouraging to lose business to people who are
    better programmers than you are.


    There's plenty of work to go around, and most programmers out there
    develop apps or desktop/web software and don't know a thing about
    small-iron.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Wed Jul 20 16:50:08 2022
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar
    d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130
    720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-
    gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?


    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Jul 20 12:44:59 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 20 10:19:48 2022
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar >>>> d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130 >>>> 720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu- >>> gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    I would think that increasing productivity is the way to make people
    better off, but I'm old fashioned that way.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Jul 20 14:25:12 2022
    On 7/20/2022 1:19 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar >>>>> d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130 >>>>> 720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu- >>>> gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    I would think that increasing productivity is the way to make people
    better off, but I'm old fashioned that way.


    I'm old-fashioned also I miss the days when how much of a man you were
    was largely based on how many women you slept with, nowadays it seems to
    be based largely on how many trucks & guns you own and how "tough" one
    can present oneself as being. Selling "tough" is good business:

    <https://www.motherjones.com/wp-content/uploads/danieldefense-poundspain-00.jpg>

    But there's finally not that much money to bilk out of men who're to a
    large degree happy with their lives. Not easy people to control, either.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Wed Jul 20 15:47:05 2022
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar >>>> d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130 >>>> 720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu- >>> gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.


    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?



    As far as I know nobody has tried to unwind a mess like this since maybe
    the South Sea Bubble. With most developed nations' sovereign and near-sovereign debt at or above GDP, a 3% increase in government bond
    rates very rapidly starts to cost >3% of GDP.

    Raising taxes or cutting spending by that amount would be far too
    painful for our current nearly-completely gormless governments, so the
    result would be more money printing, which leads to what happened to
    Germany in 1923.

    Seizing all private retirement savings would just about pay off the
    national debt, last time I checked.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Jul 20 13:18:55 2022
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 14:25:12 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 1:19 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar >>>>>> d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130 >>>>>> 720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >>>>>> inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu- >>>>> gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    I would think that increasing productivity is the way to make people
    better off, but I'm old fashioned that way.


    I'm old-fashioned also I miss the days when how much of a man you were
    was largely based on how many women you slept with,

    No, that is a measure of how shallow and juvenile you are.

    And indicates how many STDs you probably have.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Jul 20 15:44:31 2022
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 18:27:51 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 4:18 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 14:25:12 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 1:19 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> >>>> wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar
    d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130
    720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >>>>>>>> inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-
    gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of >>>>>>> inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    I would think that increasing productivity is the way to make people
    better off, but I'm old fashioned that way.


    I'm old-fashioned also I miss the days when how much of a man you were
    was largely based on how many women you slept with,

    No, that is a measure of how shallow and juvenile you are.

    Has anyone told Elon Musk?

    And indicates how many STDs you probably have.


    Ever notice how there are people who are against vaccines because they
    claim catching various bugs makes their natural immunity "stronger", but

    No, never noticed anyone saying that. There is an argument that excess cleanliness in childhood creates allergies.


    I've never heard of anyone saying they're going to try training their
    immune system to get stronger by getting chlamydia. Weird huh.

    A lot of old-time morality, about sex and food and things, was
    protective.

    Antibiotics changed some of that, but a jealous husband can still
    shoot you. Not to mention child support.

    Besides, having more than one woman gets confusing, and cuts into
    design time.

    This monkeypox thing is crazy. People are desperate to get vaccinated,
    when all they have to do is stop ****ing a lot of strangers. The first
    AIDS cases were in men who had had thousands of sexual partners. Maybe
    sex with women is more chemically satisfying or something.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Jul 20 18:27:51 2022
    On 7/20/2022 4:18 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 14:25:12 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 1:19 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar >>>>>>> d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130 >>>>>>> 720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >>>>>>> inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu- >>>>>> gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    I would think that increasing productivity is the way to make people
    better off, but I'm old fashioned that way.


    I'm old-fashioned also I miss the days when how much of a man you were
    was largely based on how many women you slept with,

    No, that is a measure of how shallow and juvenile you are.

    Has anyone told Elon Musk?

    And indicates how many STDs you probably have.


    Ever notice how there are people who are against vaccines because they
    claim catching various bugs makes their natural immunity "stronger", but
    I've never heard of anyone saying they're going to try training their
    immune system to get stronger by getting chlamydia. Weird huh.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Jul 20 19:08:25 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 18:27:51 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 4:18 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 14:25:12 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 1:19 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com> >>>>> wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>>>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar
    d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130
    720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >>>>>>>>> inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>>>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-
    gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of >>>>>>>> inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    I would think that increasing productivity is the way to make people >>>>> better off, but I'm old fashioned that way.


    I'm old-fashioned also I miss the days when how much of a man you were >>>> was largely based on how many women you slept with,

    No, that is a measure of how shallow and juvenile you are.

    Has anyone told Elon Musk?

    And indicates how many STDs you probably have.


    Ever notice how there are people who are against vaccines because they
    claim catching various bugs makes their natural immunity "stronger", but

    No, never noticed anyone saying that. There is an argument that excess cleanliness in childhood creates allergies.


    I've never heard of anyone saying they're going to try training their
    immune system to get stronger by getting chlamydia. Weird huh.

    Nah, even one of your guys got it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Wed Jul 20 19:08:51 2022
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 15:47:05 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar >>>>> d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130 >>>>> 720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu- >>>> gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.


    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?



    As far as I know nobody has tried to unwind a mess like this since maybe
    the South Sea Bubble. With most developed nations' sovereign and >near-sovereign debt at or above GDP, a 3% increase in government bond
    rates very rapidly starts to cost >3% of GDP.

    Raising taxes or cutting spending by that amount would be far too
    painful for our current nearly-completely gormless governments, so the
    result would be more money printing, which leads to what happened to
    Germany in 1923.

    Seizing all private retirement savings would just about pay off the
    national debt, last time I checked.

    It has been done in South America for one, but not yet in the US.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Wed Jul 20 19:15:43 2022
    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 15:47:05 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar >>>>>> d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130 >>>>>> 720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >>>>>> inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu- >>>>> gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.


    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?



    As far as I know nobody has tried to unwind a mess like this since maybe
    the South Sea Bubble. With most developed nations' sovereign and
    near-sovereign debt at or above GDP, a 3% increase in government bond
    rates very rapidly starts to cost >3% of GDP.

    Raising taxes or cutting spending by that amount would be far too
    painful for our current nearly-completely gormless governments, so the
    result would be more money printing, which leads to what happened to
    Germany in 1923.

    Seizing all private retirement savings would just about pay off the
    national debt, last time I checked.

    It has been done in South America for one, but not yet in the US.

    Joe Gwinn


    It turns out that you can grow banana palms in Connecticut, though you
    don't get any fruit. Stay tuned. :(

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Wed Jul 20 20:06:34 2022
    On 7/20/2022 7:08 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 18:27:51 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 4:18 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 14:25:12 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/20/2022 1:19 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett
    <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700,
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar

    d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130

    720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates >>>>>>>>>> counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest >>>>>>>>>> rates *are*
    inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political
    stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-

    gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of >>>>>>>>> inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    I would think that increasing productivity is the way to make people >>>>>> better off, but I'm old fashioned that way.


    I'm old-fashioned also I miss the days when how much of a man you were >>>>> was largely based on how many women you slept with,

    No, that is a measure of how shallow and juvenile you are.

    Has anyone told Elon Musk?

    And indicates how many STDs you probably have.


    Ever notice how there are people who are against vaccines because they
    claim catching various bugs makes their natural immunity "stronger", but

    No, never noticed anyone saying that. There is an argument that excess
    cleanliness in childhood creates allergies.

    I've never heard of anyone saying they're going to try training their
    immune system to get stronger by getting chlamydia. Weird huh.

    Nah, even one of your guys got it:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X29lF43mUlo

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    A million Americans died many of whom would very likely still be alive
    today, meanwhile there are usersh ere (not that their concerns are particularly unusual) who seem very preoccupied about what sports teams transsexuals play on and what bathrooms they use, among other reasons I
    expect because it's somehow a "safety issue."

    And back in '86 our fearless originalist Samuel Alito helped write a
    opinion that employers could legally fire AIDS victims because of a
    “fear of contagion, whether reasonable or not." It just made good
    business sense was what he was saying, Constitution-schmonstitution.

    So, Carlin was a comedian and was hyperbolic for effect a lot, but he
    wasn't entirely wrong by a long shot there are a lot of bizarre
    neurotics and petty tyrants around here in the good ol' USA, emphasis on
    the "petty."

    Hard to say exactly what he'd have to say about the current situation
    but I expect he'd have called conspiratorial anti-vaxxers the fools that
    they are, not much different than the hippies worried that their house
    wiring was giving them cancer in the 1990s. It's kinda weird how those
    two demographics horse-shoed together so well but here we are.

    But it's true Carlin did know that behind the glitz and promises of
    America you'll find mostly bullshit, and he treated the "moral
    majority", holy rollers, and Communists-under-every-bed set with about
    the amount of respect and consideration they deserve, i.e. not much.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Jul 20 22:28:39 2022
    On 07/20/2022 08:19 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.


    Positive feedback, love it.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Jul 20 22:31:23 2022
    On 07/20/2022 11:19 AM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar >>>>> d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130 >>>>> 720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu- >>>> gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    I would think that increasing productivity is the way to make people
    better off, but I'm old fashioned that way.

    Then you have to increase consumption to keep the capitalism ball rolling.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Jul 20 23:40:30 2022
    On Monday, July 18, 2022 at 6:59:31 AM UTC-7, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    Economists have no clue about causalities, but that dosen't stop them
    from wanting to manage things a trillion dollars at a time.

    Of course they 'want to manage' anything and everything at the trillion dollar scale!
    You can keep an untrained gerbil, but not a mastiff

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 21 03:52:32 2022
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 22:31:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/20/2022 11:19 AM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar >>>>>> d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130 >>>>>> 720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >>>>>> inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu- >>>>> gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    I would think that increasing productivity is the way to make people
    better off, but I'm old fashioned that way.

    Then you have to increase consumption to keep the capitalism ball rolling.

    Biden did that by sending people checks. It was inflationary.

    Another economics blunder is assuming that increasing consumption is a
    good thing to do.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 21 03:55:07 2022
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 22:28:39 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/20/2022 08:19 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.


    Positive feedback, love it.

    Please don't use complex terms like "positive feedback." It will
    confuse politicians and economists.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Thu Jul 21 07:20:14 2022
    On Thursday, July 21, 2022 at 8:52:44 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 22:31:23 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
    On 07/20/2022 11:19 AM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 16:50:08 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com> wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregar
    d-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130
    720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters >>>>>> inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>>> corruption.

    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    It's just the European Commission staff who have been granted an automatic pay raise to match the current levels of inflation.

    There aren't enough of them for the money to make any practical difference to the economy. Breitbart wants to make a political point but it could be argued that the European Commission staff are in a unique position to fix the economy, it might make
    sense to give them enough money to concentrate on doing that rather than working out how to pay their bills.

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of inflation.

    Like all right-wing lunatics, John Larkin likes to generalise particular solutions to particular problems until he's got something that looks absurd.

    And therefore make folks with savings pay for all of it.

    Inflation does make everybody's savings less valuable, and government debt less expensive.

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    I would think that increasing productivity is the way to make people better off, but I'm old fashioned that way.

    That does involve investing money in education and infrastructure, and John Larkin is much too old-fashioned to ever want to do that.

    Then you have to increase consumption to keep the capitalism ball rolling.

    Biden did that by sending people checks. It was inflationary.

    Not at the time. When the economy is in recession, handing out free money boosts the economy, but doesn't create the kind of demand that pushes up prices.

    Keynesians do know when they need to stimulate the economy, and when it stops being a good idea. Right-wing nitwits find this idea much too complicated to deal with, and much prefer to satirise the kind of approach they can get their minds around.

    Another economics blunder is assuming that increasing consumption is a good thing to do.

    If the economy is in recession it is an excellent thing to do. Once the economy has got all it's spare productive capacity working, you don't want people to start competing for products they don't actually need. Keynesians do taper off economic
    stimulation when it has served its purpose. Trump didn't.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Thu Jul 21 23:40:56 2022
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    As far as I know nobody has tried to unwind a mess like this since maybe
    the South Sea Bubble. With most developed nations' sovereign and near-sovereign debt at or above GDP, a 3% increase in government bond
    rates very rapidly starts to cost >3% of GDP.

    Raising taxes or cutting spending by that amount would be far too
    painful for our current nearly-completely gormless governments, so the
    result would be more money printing, which leads to what happened to
    Germany in 1923.

    Seizing all private retirement savings would just about pay off the
    national debt, last time I checked.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Turkey is a disaster. Their economy is in ruins, they are running out of
    money, and Erdogan promises to keep it that way.

    Background

    The most prevalent form of Islam practiced in Turkey is Sunni Islam,
    another departure from neighboring countries where most people
    adhere to Shia Islam.

    https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/middle-east/turkey/how-strict-is- islam-in-turkey

    A Muslim is not allowed to benefit from lending money or receiving
    money from someone. This means that earning interest (riba) is not
    allowed - whether you are an individual or a bank. To comply with
    these rules, interest is not paid on Islamic savings or current
    accounts, or charged on Islamic mortgages.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/oct/29/islamic-finance-sharia- compliant-money-interest

    Erdogan is Muslim. He believes in low interest rates

    Turkey's inflation for the month of May rose by an eye-watering
    73.5% year on year, its highest in 23 years, as the country grapples
    with soaring food and energy costs and President Recep Tayyip
    Erdogan's long-running unorthodox strategy on monetary policy.

    Turkey has enjoyed rapid growth for years, but Erdogan has for years
    refused to meaningfully raise rates to cool the resulting inflation,
    describing himself as a sworn enemy of interest rates. The result
    has been a plummeting Turkish lira and far less spending power for
    the average Turk.

    Erdogan instructed the country's central bank - which analysts say
    has no independence from him - to repeatedly slash borrowing rates
    last year even as inflation continued to rise. Central bank chiefs
    who expressed opposition to this course of action were fired; by the
    spring of 2021, Turkey's central bank had seen four different
    governors in two years.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/03/turkeys-inflation-soars-to-73percent-as- food-and-energy-costs-skyrocket.html

    Erdogan Destroys The Country

    Investors have fled Turkey in recent years and the currency is by
    far the worst performer in emerging markets.

    They say Erdogan - who has long described himself as an enemy of
    interest rates - has swayed monetary policy with his frequent calls
    for stimulus and his rapid overhaul of the central bank's
    leadership.

    A day before a central bank policy meeting at which it is expected
    to ease again, the president repeated his unorthodox view that
    higher rates were the cause of inflation and questioned why some of
    our "friends" defended tight policy.

    "We will lift this scourge of interest rates from people's backs. We
    certainly cannot allow our people to be crushed by interest rates,"
    he told lawmakers from his ruling conservative AK Party in
    parliament.

    "I cannot and will not stand on this path with those who defend
    interest rates," Erdogan said.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/17/turkeys-erdogan-says-continuing-his-battle- against-interest-rates.html

    Turkey unveils scheme to bring gold savings at home into banking system
    12.02.2022

    Turkey Saturday announced a new plan to encourage people to bring
    their "under-the-mattress" gold into the banking system.

    Under a tradition of turning to gold to safeguard wealth by storing
    it at home, Turkiye's government estimates the presence of around
    5,000 tons of gold savings at home worth $250-350 billion.

    Touting the plan in Istanbul, Treasury and Finance Minister Nureddin
    Nebati told reporters that gold conversion bank accounts offer the
    public risk-free incomes.

    People can safely and easily move their gold holdings to the
    financial system through jewelers and banks, with 10,000 jewelers
    joining the effort by the end of this year, he added.

    The gold put into the financial system under the new plan can be
    taken back if requested, he also said.

    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/economy/turkiye-unveils-scheme-to-bring-gold- savings-at-home-into-banking-system/2500891

    The scheme doesn't seem to be working well. Nobody trusts the government, especially to give them all your money.

    NATO is trying to find a way to remove Turkey for snuggling up with Russia. This is a problem because there is no way to do this in the rules.




    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 22 10:20:09 2022
    On 21/7/22 20:55, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 22:28:39 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/20/2022 08:19 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.


    Positive feedback, love it.

    Please don't use complex terms like "positive feedback." It will
    confuse politicians and economists.

    Whooosh. That proposal has been tried, and every single time it has only produced hyperinflation. Just as you would expect.

    It's only a "good idea" to folk who are rich in assets that inflate,
    because it pushes everyone else down.

    It's the short path to complete social collapse.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Thu Jul 21 20:40:56 2022
    Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 21/7/22 20:55, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 22:28:39 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/20/2022 08:19 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/


    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html


    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and >>>>> corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/


    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.


    Positive feedback, love it.

    Please don't use complex terms like "positive feedback." It will
    confuse politicians and economists.

    Whooosh. That proposal has been tried, and every single time it has only produced hyperinflation. Just as you would expect.

    It's only a "good idea" to folk who are rich in assets that inflate,
    because it pushes everyone else down.

    It's the short path to complete social collapse.

    I suppose that in 2022 everybody has to use a smiley every time they say something ironically.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Thu Jul 21 20:57:16 2022
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    As far as I know nobody has tried to unwind a mess like this since maybe
    the South Sea Bubble. With most developed nations' sovereign and
    near-sovereign debt at or above GDP, a 3% increase in government bond
    rates very rapidly starts to cost >3% of GDP.

    Raising taxes or cutting spending by that amount would be far too
    painful for our current nearly-completely gormless governments, so the
    result would be more money printing, which leads to what happened to
    Germany in 1923.

    Seizing all private retirement savings would just about pay off the
    national debt, last time I checked.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Turkey is a disaster. Their economy is in ruins, they are running out of money, and Erdogan promises to keep it that way.

    Background

    The most prevalent form of Islam practiced in Turkey is Sunni Islam,
    another departure from neighboring countries where most people
    adhere to Shia Islam.

    https://www.worldnomads.com/travel-safety/middle-east/turkey/how-strict-is- islam-in-turkey

    A Muslim is not allowed to benefit from lending money or receiving
    money from someone. This means that earning interest (riba) is not
    allowed - whether you are an individual or a bank. To comply with
    these rules, interest is not paid on Islamic savings or current
    accounts, or charged on Islamic mortgages.

    https://www.theguardian.com/money/2013/oct/29/islamic-finance-sharia- compliant-money-interest

    Erdogan is Muslim. He believes in low interest rates

    Turkey's inflation for the month of May rose by an eye-watering
    73.5% year on year, its highest in 23 years, as the country grapples
    with soaring food and energy costs and President Recep Tayyip
    Erdogan's long-running unorthodox strategy on monetary policy.

    Turkey has enjoyed rapid growth for years, but Erdogan has for years
    refused to meaningfully raise rates to cool the resulting inflation,
    describing himself as a sworn enemy of interest rates. The result
    has been a plummeting Turkish lira and far less spending power for
    the average Turk.

    Erdogan instructed the country's central bank - which analysts say
    has no independence from him - to repeatedly slash borrowing rates
    last year even as inflation continued to rise. Central bank chiefs
    who expressed opposition to this course of action were fired; by the
    spring of 2021, Turkey's central bank had seen four different
    governors in two years.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2022/06/03/turkeys-inflation-soars-to-73percent-as- food-and-energy-costs-skyrocket.html

    Erdogan Destroys The Country

    Investors have fled Turkey in recent years and the currency is by
    far the worst performer in emerging markets.

    They say Erdogan - who has long described himself as an enemy of
    interest rates - has swayed monetary policy with his frequent calls
    for stimulus and his rapid overhaul of the central bank's
    leadership.

    A day before a central bank policy meeting at which it is expected
    to ease again, the president repeated his unorthodox view that
    higher rates were the cause of inflation and questioned why some of
    our "friends" defended tight policy.

    "We will lift this scourge of interest rates from people's backs. We
    certainly cannot allow our people to be crushed by interest rates,"
    he told lawmakers from his ruling conservative AK Party in
    parliament.

    "I cannot and will not stand on this path with those who defend
    interest rates," Erdogan said.

    https://www.cnbc.com/2021/11/17/turkeys-erdogan-says-continuing-his-battle- against-interest-rates.html

    Turkey unveils scheme to bring gold savings at home into banking system
    12.02.2022

    Turkey Saturday announced a new plan to encourage people to bring
    their "under-the-mattress" gold into the banking system.

    Under a tradition of turning to gold to safeguard wealth by storing
    it at home, Turkiye's government estimates the presence of around
    5,000 tons of gold savings at home worth $250-350 billion.

    Touting the plan in Istanbul, Treasury and Finance Minister Nureddin
    Nebati told reporters that gold conversion bank accounts offer the
    public risk-free incomes.

    People can safely and easily move their gold holdings to the
    financial system through jewelers and banks, with 10,000 jewelers
    joining the effort by the end of this year, he added.

    The gold put into the financial system under the new plan can be
    taken back if requested, he also said.

    https://www.aa.com.tr/en/economy/turkiye-unveils-scheme-to-bring-gold- savings-at-home-into-banking-system/2500891

    The scheme doesn't seem to be working well. Nobody trusts the government, especially to give them all your money.

    NATO is trying to find a way to remove Turkey for snuggling up with Russia. This is a problem because there is no way to do this in the rules.


    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10, unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Thu Jul 21 23:12:29 2022
    On 07/21/2022 04:55 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 22:28:39 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/20/2022 08:19 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:59:23 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:




    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are* >>>> inflation.

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.




    This is a wonderful concept:

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/07/20/against-its-own-advice-eu-gives-employees-inflation-matched-pay-rise/

    Adapt to inflation by increasing everyone's salary at the rate of
    inflation.


    Positive feedback, love it.

    Please don't use complex terms like "positive feedback." It will
    confuse politicians and economists.


    Maybe a film of the Tacoma Narrows Bridge collapse but they wouldn't get
    the metaphor either.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Thu Jul 21 23:04:15 2022
    On 07/21/2022 04:52 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Another economics blunder is assuming that increasing consumption is a
    good thing to do.

    It's essential to capitalism, not implying capitalism isn't an economic blunder.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri Jul 22 12:36:22 2022
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10, unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct solution.

    (And Banking is one of the top 10 problems!)


    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Fri Jul 22 09:31:39 2022
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10,
    unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct solution.

    (And Banking is one of the top 10 problems!)


    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting
    there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri Jul 22 13:55:07 2022
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10,
    unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct
    solution.

    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting
    there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    And that is precisely where Turkey is headed. That's why they want to steal private gold. Because their economy is wrecked since they won't increase interest rates.


    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 22 08:47:58 2022
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10,
    unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct
    solution.

    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting
    there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    And that is precisely where Turkey is headed. That's why they want to steal >private gold. Because their economy is wrecked since they won't increase >interest rates.


    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 22 14:40:23 2022
    On 07/22/2022 09:47 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10,
    unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct
    solution.

    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting
    there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    And that is precisely where Turkey is headed. That's why they want to steal >> private gold. Because their economy is wrecked since they won't increase
    interest rates.


    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.


    If you look at the roots of central banks like the Bank of England or
    the Second Bank of the United States you usually find a government
    living beyond its means.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 22 14:26:37 2022
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 14:40:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/22/2022 09:47 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10,
    unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct
    solution.

    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting >>>> there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    And that is precisely where Turkey is headed. That's why they want to steal >>> private gold. Because their economy is wrecked since they won't increase >>> interest rates.


    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a
    supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.


    If you look at the roots of central banks like the Bank of England or
    the Second Bank of the United States you usually find a government
    living beyond its means.

    Usually?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 22 16:26:07 2022
    On 07/22/2022 03:26 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 14:40:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/22/2022 09:47 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10, >>>>>>> unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct >>>>>> solution.

    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting >>>>> there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    And that is precisely where Turkey is headed. That's why they want to steal
    private gold. Because their economy is wrecked since they won't increase >>>> interest rates.


    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a
    supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.


    If you look at the roots of central banks like the Bank of England or
    the Second Bank of the United States you usually find a government
    living beyond its means.

    Usually?


    Possibly sometime in the history of the world there was an exception.
    I'm a programmer by trade and seldom make absolute statements.

    It wasn't exactly a central bank but Rome had a monopoly on minting
    coinage and kept debasing it to support their wars. Biden would be proud
    of Diocletian's attempt to set maximum prices and blame it all on
    merchants and hoarders. iirc the story didn't end well.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 22 21:18:10 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10,
    unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct
    solution.

    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting
    there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    And that is precisely where Turkey is headed. That's why they want to steal >> private gold. Because their economy is wrecked since they won't increase
    interest rates.


    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.


    Sort of hard to avoid when the currency is based on nothing but the
    promises of the government. That's true whether the currency is backed
    by gold or (as currently) apparently by unicorn farts.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 22 18:34:51 2022
    On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 1:48:09 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com> wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:

    <snip>

    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    This is right-wing nit-wit economic fundamentalism. It ignores the fact that the supply-and-demand economic market comes down to human decisions, and humans are subject to irrational swings between feckless optimism, which gives you the Tulip Mania or
    the South Sea Bubble, and despairing pessimism which gave you the Great Depression. There are also the crooks who set up cartels and other price-fixing schemes which can stop the market from being as free as it needs to be

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and interest rates, expect troubles.

    If they have enough sense to use that control to regulate the market, clean out the crooks and damp down the irrational exuberance, you won't get trouble. If they are silly enough to believe in the wisdom of the totally free market, you will get trouble
    - but from the market rather than the government.

    You can get even sillier people in government, as Sri Lanka managed to do recently, and they can wreck the economy without any help from the market.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri Jul 22 18:45:34 2022
    On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 11:18:17 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com> wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:

    <snip>

    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.

    Sort of hard to avoid when the currency is based on nothing but the
    promises of the government. That's true whether the currency is backed
    by gold or (as currently) apparently by unicorn farts.

    Currency is merely a medium of exchange. The economy actually works by barter, and currency lubricates the barter.

    Governments can screw up the process by making a mess of the money supply, setting up a situation where nobody is gong to bother making anything because they can't barter with enough people to swap what they make for what they need, but if there is
    enough currency in circulation (not too much or too little) it doesn't matter how it is "backed".

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Sat Jul 23 16:26:57 2022
    On 23/7/22 11:45, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 11:18:17 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com> wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:

    <snip>

    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a
    supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.

    Sort of hard to avoid when the currency is based on nothing but the
    promises of the government. That's true whether the currency is backed
    by gold or (as currently) apparently by unicorn farts.

    Currency is merely a medium of exchange. The economy actually works by barter, and currency lubricates the barter.

    Money is exchangeable debt. When you buy some thing from me, I give you
    the thing, and I take the money (debt) that you offer. Some time later I
    can call in the debt by offering it to someone else in return for what
    they have.

    When governments print new money, they're saying they think the economy
    would work better with more outstanding debt.

    When there's too much debt, inflation is the mechanism for eroding it.

    What's wierd about the world economy right now is that globally we have
    well over 10x the amount of debt as we have total value of all the
    things held or potentially available for sale. That's a bit scary. It's
    musical chairs, but there is only 1 chair for every ten people.

    Clifford Heath

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Brown@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat Jul 23 09:31:27 2022
    On 22/07/2022 21:40, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/22/2022 09:47 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems.  Banking is not in the top 10, >>>>>> unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct
    solution.

    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting >>>> there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    And that is precisely where Turkey is headed. That's why they want to
    steal
    private gold. Because their economy is wrecked since they won't increase >>> interest rates.


    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a
    supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.


    If you look at the roots of central banks like the Bank of England or
    the Second Bank of the United States you usually find a government
    living beyond its means.

    But that is what the people want and populist politicians will promise
    anything they think will get them elected however crazy it may be.

    You only have to look at the UK's blue on blue dogfight for PM.

    The honest guy Rishi Sunak stands no chance of winning by telling the
    truth about our rather dire situation as a result of Brexit and Covid
    whereas clueless Liz Truss will walk it on a tax cuts for all ticket.

    Tinkerbellism is alive and well. If you believe in enough impossible
    things before breakfast like the red/blue queen they will happen...

    --
    Regards,
    Martin Brown

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Sat Jul 23 04:07:55 2022
    On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 4:27:07 PM UTC+10, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 23/7/22 11:45, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Saturday, July 23, 2022 at 11:18:17 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com> wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:
    Mike Monett wrote:

    <snip>

    Sort of hard to avoid when the currency is based on nothing but the
    promises of the government. That's true whether the currency is backed
    by gold or (as currently) apparently by unicorn farts.

    Currency is merely a medium of exchange. The economy actually works by barter, and currency lubricates the barter.

    Money is exchangeable debt. When you buy some thing from me, I give you
    the thing, and I take the money (debt) that you offer. Some time later I
    can call in the debt by offering it to someone else in return for what
    they have.

    That's saying the same thing in different words. Clearly you were priming us for your claim about the volume of global debt.

    When governments print new money, they're saying they think the economy would work better with more outstanding debt.

    When there's too much debt, inflation is the mechanism for eroding it.

    What's wierd about the world economy right now is that globally we have
    well over 10x the amount of debt as we have total value of all the
    things held or potentially available for sale.

    What makes you think that? And what do you class as a "thing that is potentially available for sale"?

    The NSW government spends money on building longer and wider roads, which aren't exactly negotiable objects, but then sells off the right to charge motorists tolls for driving along them

    That's a bit scary. It's musical chairs, but there is only 1 chair for every ten people.

    it might be, if it were true. It sounds more like one of those pseudo facts that get invented by people who want to sound impressive.

    Historically, governments sell bonds to raise money to pay for weapons when they are fighting a war. Weapons get used up, and aren't all that much use after the war has ended. Were you counting the war bonds issued by the Russian imperial government
    before 1917 as part of the debt you were talking about?

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Martin Brown on Sat Jul 23 12:56:27 2022
    On 07/23/2022 02:31 AM, Martin Brown wrote:
    On 22/07/2022 21:40, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/22/2022 09:47 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10, >>>>>>> unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct >>>>>> solution.

    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting >>>>> there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    And that is precisely where Turkey is headed. That's why they want
    to steal
    private gold. Because their economy is wrecked since they won't
    increase
    interest rates.


    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a
    supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.


    If you look at the roots of central banks like the Bank of England or
    the Second Bank of the United States you usually find a government
    living beyond its means.

    But that is what the people want and populist politicians will promise anything they think will get them elected however crazy it may be.

    You only have to look at the UK's blue on blue dogfight for PM.

    The honest guy Rishi Sunak stands no chance of winning by telling the
    truth about our rather dire situation as a result of Brexit and Covid
    whereas clueless Liz Truss will walk it on a tax cuts for all ticket.

    Tinkerbellism is alive and well. If you believe in enough impossible
    things before breakfast like the red/blue queen they will happen...


    When a sizable segment of the electorate supports its life style with
    smoke, mirrors, and credit card debt you can hardly expect them to vote
    for a politician with a realistic view.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to '''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk on Sat Jul 23 13:42:27 2022
    On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:31:27 +0100, Martin Brown
    <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

    On 22/07/2022 21:40, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/22/2022 09:47 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spamme@not.com>
    wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems.  Banking is not in the top 10, >>>>>>> unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct >>>>>> solution.

    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting >>>>> there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    And that is precisely where Turkey is headed. That's why they want to
    steal
    private gold. Because their economy is wrecked since they won't increase >>>> interest rates.


    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a
    supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.


    If you look at the roots of central banks like the Bank of England or
    the Second Bank of the United States you usually find a government
    living beyond its means.

    But that is what the people want and populist politicians will promise >anything they think will get them elected however crazy it may be.

    You only have to look at the UK's blue on blue dogfight for PM.

    The honest guy Rishi Sunak stands no chance of winning by telling the
    truth about our rather dire situation as a result of Brexit and Covid
    whereas clueless Liz Truss will walk it on a tax cuts for all ticket.

    Tinkerbellism is alive and well. If you believe in enough impossible
    things before breakfast like the red/blue queen they will happen...

    There are basic conservation principles at work. When governments
    trash productivity, the payment means - taxes, inflation, crime,
    whatever - are details. Less stuff produced, less stuff there is.

    But people can be bought short-term, and it's a hard sell, policies
    that will make things better in 20 years.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 25 01:04:52 2022
    On Sunday, July 24, 2022 at 6:42:38 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 23 Jul 2022 09:31:27 +0100, Martin Brown
    <'''newspam'''@nonad.co.uk> wrote:

    On 22/07/2022 21:40, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/22/2022 09:47 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 22 Jul 2022 13:55:07 -0000 (UTC), Mike Monett <spa...@not.com> >>> wrote:

    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:

    Isn't raising interest rates the correct solution?

    [...]

    Yeah, Islam has a lot of problems. Banking is not in the top 10, >>>>>>> unfortunately.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    But I think this proves that raising interest rates is the correct >>>>>> solution.

    Except for the aforementioned sovereign debt problem, which is sitting >>>>> there like a bear trap.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    And that is precisely where Turkey is headed. That's why they want to >>>> steal
    private gold. Because their economy is wrecked since they won't increase
    interest rates.


    No government should control interest rates. They should be set by a
    supply-and-demand microeconomic market, like apples and paper clips.

    When a government controls money supply and public spending and
    interest rates, expect troubles.


    If you look at the roots of central banks like the Bank of England or
    the Second Bank of the United States you usually find a government
    living beyond its means.

    But that is what the people want and populist politicians will promise >anything they think will get them elected however crazy it may be.

    You only have to look at the UK's blue on blue dogfight for PM.

    The honest guy Rishi Sunak stands no chance of winning by telling the >truth about our rather dire situation as a result of Brexit and Covid >whereas clueless Liz Truss will walk it on a tax cuts for all ticket.

    Tinkerbellism is alive and well. If you believe in enough impossible >things before breakfast like the red/blue queen they will happen...

    There are basic conservation principles at work.

    But none that John Larkin knows anything about.

    When governments trash productivity, the payment means - taxes, inflation, crime, whatever - are details. Less stuff produced, less stuff there is.

    But governments don't produce stuff. That is mostly down to businesses, some of them operating under government control, and governments rarely trash productivity - or at least, not in their own countries. Russia is trashing the productivity of the
    Ukranian economy at the moment, and Reagan's support for the Contra's trashed the productivity of Nicaragua back in thev late 1980's.

    Right-wing nit-wits do see any kind of government intervention as "trashing productivity" because the interventions have a habit of stopping crooked businessmen ripping off their customers, and the businessmen - criminals - involved do like to claim that
    their rip-offs are perfectly legitimate business activities.

    But people can be bought short-term, and it's a hard sell, policies that will make things better in 20 years.

    Pretty much impossible. And if John Larkin claimed that some scheme would make things better in 20 years - such burning even more fossil carbon as fuel - there might be some scepticism expressed, if not downright incredulity.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Les Cargill@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Jul 26 19:24:24 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 18:13:42 -0500, Les Cargill <lcargil99@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:



    https://www.breitbart.com/asia/2022/07/14/china-urges-world-to-disregard-protesters-storming-banks-for-cash/

    https://ca.finance.yahoo.com/news/bonds-slump-inflation-surge-fuels-130720879.html

    I don't understand the concept that raising interest rates counters
    inflation. Maybe that's an economics myth. Rising interest rates *are*
    inflation.


    Related but not equivalent:

    "The act of raising interest rates is generally a signal of
    disinflationary intent, but periods of rising interest rates are often
    inflationary (i.e. the 1960s and 1970s). "

    https://www.themoneyillusion.com/nick-rowe-on-interest-rates-and-inflation/ >>

    "That’s also my ultimate thing. Keynesianism is another example of how
    this can go badly wrong. Not ideal New Keynesianism, but actual, real
    world Keynesianism."

    Ah, humor.




    Yep. Although it's seasoning and not the soup. He just keeps the
    madness to a minimum.

    IOW - "trimpots bad".

    The Chinese and US issues are both driven by political stupidity and
    corruption.


    Politics means a variation on bad spaghetti dinners for months on
    end. Think about the sort that attracts. ( stolen from PJ
    O'Rourke )

    I wasn't going to mention this, being off-topic, but you did open the
    issue:

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascatelli

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/wqsw4gb0714tugr/AADrQVtSGhejmKbmfiSWkeswa?dl=0

    I boiled it for 18 minutes, near sea level. Try it.


    The Chinese at least draw on engineers for their political class.

    I know. That's embarassing. Muslim terrorist bombers are often
    educated as engineers.


    So it goes. They don't have prospects at home. Islamic terrorism was
    invented in its present form while Sayyid Qutb was at school in
    Colorado Springs.

    --
    Les Cargill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Les Cargill@21:1/5 to bitrex on Tue Jul 26 19:28:07 2022
    bitrex wrote:
    On 7/19/2022 7:17 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>


    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely
    responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the
    president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide
    victory in the 2019 election was misread by him as a people’s mandate
    to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the
    Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the
    Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is
    demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd
    been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with
    his relatives  and sycophants.

    Even nepotism is survivable in a highly productive economy that isn't
    wasting its productive capacity on war. Corruption and nepotism don't
    guarantee economic failure, but they certainly worsen it when it
    occurs. Something the USA (which has never *not* been at war) might
    learn from.

    Weird how people seem to intuitively understand that sending every
    average Joe $2000 checks semi-regularly is inflationary,

    Maybe. Maybe not. That's the thing - it's all "sensitive dependence on
    initial conditions." They sent all the checks and next to nothing
    happened, unless you can account for a what, two-year lag?

    but when they
    see that America's billionaires became like 1 trillion dollars wealthier
    over the past two years they figure what. that they just EARNED all that themselves through hard work and not a bit of it was just printed? ????


    That's asset inflation which is distinct from inflation-inflation.

    --
    Les Cargill

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to bitrex on Wed Jul 27 01:50:03 2022
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:19:01 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/19/2022 7:17 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>


    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely
    responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the
    president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide
    victory in the 2019 election was misread by him as a people’s mandate
    to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the
    Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the
    Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is
    demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd
    been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with his
    relatives  and sycophants.

    Even nepotism is survivable in a highly productive economy that isn't
    wasting its productive capacity on war. Corruption and nepotism don't
    guarantee economic failure, but they certainly worsen it when it occurs.
    Something the USA (which has never *not* been at war) might learn from.

    Weird how people seem to intuitively understand that sending every
    average Joe $2000 checks semi-regularly is inflationary, but when they
    see that America's billionaires became like 1 trillion dollars wealthier
    over the past two years they figure what. that they just EARNED all that >themselves through hard work and not a bit of it was just printed? ????

    A person acumulating a billion dollars worth of something (stock
    shares, real estate, bitcoins) isn't inflationary unless he turns it
    all into cash and empties the shelves at all the WalMarts and Costcos
    around, and orders all the available refrigerators and pizzas in the
    country.

    Whereas sending millions of people $2000 checks does those things.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Jul 27 04:42:49 2022
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:50:13 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:19:01 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/19/2022 7:17 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>


    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely
    responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the
    president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide >>> victory in the 2019 election was misread by him as a people’s mandate >>> to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the
    Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the
    Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is
    demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd
    been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with his >>> relatives and sycophants.

    Even nepotism is survivable in a highly productive economy that isn't
    wasting its productive capacity on war. Corruption and nepotism don't
    guarantee economic failure, but they certainly worsen it when it occurs. >> Something the USA (which has never *not* been at war) might learn from.

    Weird how people seem to intuitively understand that sending every
    average Joe $2000 checks semi-regularly is inflationary, but when they
    see that America's billionaires became like 1 trillion dollars wealthier >over the past two years they figure what. that they just EARNED all that >themselves through hard work and not a bit of it was just printed? ????

    A person acumulating a billion dollars worth of something (stock
    shares, real estate, bitcoins) isn't inflationary unless he turns it
    all into cash and empties the shelves at all the WalMarts and Costcos around, and orders all the available refrigerators and pizzas in the country.

    Whereas sending millions of people $2000 checks does those things.

    John Larkin can't get it into his head that Keynesian pump priming is a device to get an economy out of recession.

    As long as there are refrigerators and a pizzas in stock around the country, giving people money to buy them isn't inflationary. Once that back-long has been run down, the economy isn't in recession, and you don't have to stimulate the economy any more.
    This means that you need a control loop to monitor the state of the economy, and start turning down the stimulation as demand starts matching potential output - the sort of thing he claims that economists don't know about.

    What he actually means is the he doesn't know anything about it.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Thu Jul 28 11:07:32 2022
    On 27/7/22 21:42, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:50:13 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:19:01 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/19/2022 7:17 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>


    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely >>>>> responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the >>>>> president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide >>>>> victory in the 2019 election was misread by him as a people’s mandate >>>>> to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the
    Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the
    Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is
    demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd
    been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with his >>>>> relatives and sycophants.

    Even nepotism is survivable in a highly productive economy that isn't
    wasting its productive capacity on war. Corruption and nepotism don't
    guarantee economic failure, but they certainly worsen it when it occurs. >>>> Something the USA (which has never *not* been at war) might learn from. >>>
    Weird how people seem to intuitively understand that sending every
    average Joe $2000 checks semi-regularly is inflationary, but when they
    see that America's billionaires became like 1 trillion dollars wealthier >>> over the past two years they figure what. that they just EARNED all that >>> themselves through hard work and not a bit of it was just printed? ????

    A person acumulating a billion dollars worth of something (stock
    shares, real estate, bitcoins) isn't inflationary unless he turns it
    all into cash and empties the shelves at all the WalMarts and Costcos
    around, and orders all the available refrigerators and pizzas in the
    country.

    Whereas sending millions of people $2000 checks does those things.

    John Larkin can't get it into his head that Keynesian pump priming is a device to get an economy out of recession.

    What actually happened is that those who didn't have spare cash (perhaps because their cafe had no customers) went and spent it on something at
    the local homewares store, so all the extra money went straight into the pockets of folk who own big retail chains - Walmart, or Harvey Normal in Australia. I.e. people who were already billionaires.

    Almost none of it went on improving someone's life, except in the few
    cases where folk made rent to weren't evicted, or fed the kids for
    another month - folk who were just on the edge of poverty IOW.

    The "pump priming" did not actually prime the pump, it just delayed the inevitable by a month or two. I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but you
    have to be realistic about how effective is was(n't).

    CH

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Wed Jul 27 18:55:20 2022
    On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 11:07:41 AM UTC+10, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 27/7/22 21:42, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:50:13 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:19:01 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/19/2022 7:17 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>> Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>


    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely >>>>> responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the >>>>> president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide >>>>> victory in the 2019 election was misread by him as a people’s mandate
    to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the >>>>> Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the
    Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is
    demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd >>>>> been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with his >>>>> relatives and sycophants.

    Even nepotism is survivable in a highly productive economy that isn't >>>> wasting its productive capacity on war. Corruption and nepotism don't >>>> guarantee economic failure, but they certainly worsen it when it occurs.
    Something the USA (which has never *not* been at war) might learn from. >>>
    Weird how people seem to intuitively understand that sending every
    average Joe $2000 checks semi-regularly is inflationary, but when they >>> see that America's billionaires became like 1 trillion dollars wealthier >>> over the past two years they figure what. that they just EARNED all that >>> themselves through hard work and not a bit of it was just printed? ???? >>
    A person acumulating a billion dollars worth of something (stock
    shares, real estate, bitcoins) isn't inflationary unless he turns it
    all into cash and empties the shelves at all the WalMarts and Costcos
    around, and orders all the available refrigerators and pizzas in the
    country.

    Whereas sending millions of people $2000 checks does those things.

    John Larkin can't get it into his head that Keynesian pump priming is a device to get an economy out of recession.

    What actually happened is that those who didn't have spare cash (perhaps because their cafe had no customers) went and spent it on something at
    the local homewares store, so all the extra money went straight into the pockets of folk who own big retail chains - Walmart, or Harvey Normal in Australia. I.e. people who were already billionaires.

    Who spent most of it on paying their employees and their suppliers- big retail chains run on tight margins. If you turn over enough money you can still make lots of money out of tight margins.

    Almost none of it went on improving someone's life, except in the few
    cases where folk made rent to weren't evicted, or fed the kids for
    another month - folk who were just on the edge of poverty IOW.

    If you can spend money which you previously couldn't, you life has been improved. The improvement may not be dramatic, but this is about getting the economy turning over, not about spreading sweetness and light.

    The "pump priming" did not actually prime the pump, it just delayed the inevitable by a month or two.

    Feeding money into big retail chains that run on tight margins really does prime the pump. Giving it to people who don't need to spend the money and leave it in their back accounts doesn't.

    What was this this "inevitable" that you seem to think happened and I and the Sydney Morning Herald don't happen to have noticed. We aren't in an kind of re-run of the 1930 Great Depression - employment is up, rather than down

    I'm not saying that's a bad thing, but you have to be realistic about how effective is was(n't).

    An obligation that you don't seem to feel any need to take seriously.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Thu Jul 28 17:32:20 2022
    On 28/7/22 11:55, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 11:07:41 AM UTC+10, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 27/7/22 21:42, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:50:13 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:19:01 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

    On 7/19/2022 7:17 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote: >>>>>>>> Oh, it gets worse:

    <http://www.slguardian.org/2022/07/the-death-of-democracy-caused-sri-lanka.html>


    " This is unpardonable government failure and one family is squarely >>>>>>> responsible. It was the Rajapaksa family and Gotabaya Rajapaksa, the >>>>>>> president, who personally led to this downfall. Gotabaya’s landslide >>>>>>> victory in the 2019 election was misread by him as a people’s mandate >>>>>>> to do whatever he liked.

    He transformed himself into a constitutional dictator, twisted the >>>>>>> Constitution, erased the democratic spirit, and amended the
    Constitution to confer immense powers to the president."

    The problem isn't economists, but nepotists. Sri Lanka is
    demonstrating what Donald Trump could have done for the US if he'd >>>>>>> been left in power for long enough to fill the administration with his >>>>>>> relatives and sycophants.

    Even nepotism is survivable in a highly productive economy that isn't >>>>>> wasting its productive capacity on war. Corruption and nepotism don't >>>>>> guarantee economic failure, but they certainly worsen it when it occurs. >>>>>> Something the USA (which has never *not* been at war) might learn from. >>>>>
    Weird how people seem to intuitively understand that sending every
    average Joe $2000 checks semi-regularly is inflationary, but when they >>>>> see that America's billionaires became like 1 trillion dollars wealthier >>>>> over the past two years they figure what. that they just EARNED all that >>>>> themselves through hard work and not a bit of it was just printed? ???? >>>>
    A person acumulating a billion dollars worth of something (stock
    shares, real estate, bitcoins) isn't inflationary unless he turns it
    all into cash and empties the shelves at all the WalMarts and Costcos
    around, and orders all the available refrigerators and pizzas in the
    country.

    Whereas sending millions of people $2000 checks does those things.

    John Larkin can't get it into his head that Keynesian pump priming is a device to get an economy out of recession.

    What actually happened is that those who didn't have spare cash (perhaps
    because their cafe had no customers) went and spent it on something at
    the local homewares store, so all the extra money went straight into the
    pockets of folk who own big retail chains - Walmart, or Harvey Normal in
    Australia. I.e. people who were already billionaires.

    Who spent most of it on paying their employees and their suppliers- big retail chains run on tight margins. If you turn over enough money you can still make lots of money out of tight margin


    Ahhhhahahha look mummy, someone who still believes in trickle-down!
    (Crowd gathers, points and laughs).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Clifford Heath on Thu Jul 28 01:25:43 2022
    On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 5:32:26 PM UTC+10, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 28/7/22 11:55, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Thursday, July 28, 2022 at 11:07:41 AM UTC+10, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 27/7/22 21:42, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 27, 2022 at 6:50:13 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Wed, 20 Jul 2022 10:19:01 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote: >>>>> On 7/19/2022 7:17 PM, Clifford Heath wrote:
    On 19/7/22 11:28, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 5:28:15 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:

    A person acumulating a billion dollars worth of something (stock
    shares, real estate, bitcoins) isn't inflationary unless he turns it >>>> all into cash and empties the shelves at all the WalMarts and Costcos >>>> around, and orders all the available refrigerators and pizzas in the >>>> country.

    Whereas sending millions of people $2000 checks does those things.

    John Larkin can't get it into his head that Keynesian pump priming is a device to get an economy out of recession.

    What actually happened is that those who didn't have spare cash (perhaps >> because their cafe had no customers) went and spent it on something at
    the local homewares store, so all the extra money went straight into the >> pockets of folk who own big retail chains - Walmart, or Harvey Normal in >> Australia. I.e. people who were already billionaires.

    Who spent most of it on paying their employees and their suppliers- big retail chains run on tight margins. If you turn over enough money you can still make lots of money out of tight margin.

    Ahhhhahahha look mummy, someone who still believes in trickle-down!
    (Crowd gathers, points and laughs).

    Trickle-down was Reagan's favourite fallacy. Keynesian pump-priming is quite a bit older, and actually works, not that any monetarist economist can actually believe it

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monetarism

    The money that sticks to the hands of people who run Walmart or Harvey Norman doesn't trickle down, but with low margin high volume businesses most of the money going through their tills does get recirculated.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)