• lidar chip

    From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 11 14:00:27 2022
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777

    I think that gets really cheap in volume. I'm impressed.

    These guys used one of our delay generators when they did their
    development.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Jul 11 14:08:31 2022
    On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 23:00:38 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777

    I think that gets really cheap in volume. I'm impressed.

    These guys used one of our delay generators when they did their
    development.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon
    0 In Stock
    Request Stock Notification
    Quantity

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 11 14:24:39 2022
    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:08:31 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 23:00:38 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777

    I think that gets really cheap in volume. I'm impressed.

    These guys used one of our delay generators when they did their
    development.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. >> Francis Bacon
    0 In Stock
    Request Stock Notification
    Quantity

    Practically nothing is in stock these days, especially from Digikey.

    It's still impressive. It has a laser, a photodiode, drivers, tia's,
    maybe an ADC, lots of logic, packaging.



    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Jul 11 14:49:37 2022
    On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 23:24:49 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:08:31 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 23:00:38 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777

    I think that gets really cheap in volume. I'm impressed.

    These guys used one of our delay generators when they did their
    development.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
    Francis Bacon
    0 In Stock
    Request Stock Notification
    Quantity
    Practically nothing is in stock these days, especially from Digikey.

    It's still impressive. It has a laser, a photodiode, drivers, tia's,
    maybe an ADC, lots of logic, packaging.
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon
    Lidar is an old fake
    Lidar is not fit for cars like Tesla due to power limit of laser in public outdoor use

    Lidar for drones is just another fake, for the same reason

    1st generation Lidar can be easily replaced by 2nd Gen. 2D Lidar, generating and scanning 2D points cloud in parallel
    to get 3D scanner live technology at pocket money

    hint: Kinect

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Jul 11 16:33:51 2022
    On Tuesday, 12 July 2022 at 01:30:24 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 23:24:49 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:08:31 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 23:00:38 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777

    I think that gets really cheap in volume. I'm impressed.

    These guys used one of our delay generators when they did their
    development.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
    Francis Bacon
    0 In Stock
    Request Stock Notification
    Quantity
    Practically nothing is in stock these days, especially from Digikey.

    It's still impressive. It has a laser, a photodiode, drivers, tia's,
    maybe an ADC, lots of logic, packaging.
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
    Francis Bacon
    Lidar is an old fake
    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    How are those investments working out?
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon
    -hint: Kinect

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 11 16:30:13 2022
    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 23:24:49 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:08:31 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 23:00:38 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777

    I think that gets really cheap in volume. I'm impressed.

    These guys used one of our delay generators when they did their
    development.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
    Francis Bacon
    0 In Stock
    Request Stock Notification
    Quantity
    Practically nothing is in stock these days, especially from Digikey.

    It's still impressive. It has a laser, a photodiode, drivers, tia's,
    maybe an ADC, lots of logic, packaging.
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. >> Francis Bacon
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    How are those investments working out?

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology. on Tue Jul 12 05:36:35 2022
    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in <rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9c7vithf2qi8vggheu@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    Much in the US is fake these days, say Hunter ByeThen.. was just reading
    people cracked his cellphone, he sold US oil reserves to China it seems
    ByeThen a criminal club.
    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make peace with Russia
    better for cold winters too,

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 12 06:56:21 2022
  • From Edward's Mother@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Jul 12 08:03:39 2022
    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    a a <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:

    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    Much in the US is fake these days, say Hunter ByeThen.. was just reading people cracked his cellphone, he sold US oil reserves to China it seems ByeThen a criminal club.

    Most impressive is how obvious our current crop of politicians are, about making big money off of being politicians. It's getting worse here in
    America.

    But the rest of the world was already there a long time ago.

    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make
    peace with Russia better for cold winters too,

    What country are you from?

    "We in Europe" are chomping at the bit to go after Russia. Doesn't take
    much encouragement from America. Apparently you missed all of the nasty anti-Russian rhetoric coming out of European nations, when the
    Russia-Ukraine war started, before (and even after) they started feeling
    the oil pinch.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to Mother" on Tue Jul 12 09:41:00 2022
    XPost: us.politics

    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 08:03:39 -0000 (UTC)) it happened "Edward's Mother" <always.see@post.header> wrote in <taj9sq$202t8$3@dont-email.me>:

    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    a a <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:

    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    Much in the US is fake these days, say Hunter ByeThen.. was just reading
    people cracked his cellphone, he sold US oil reserves to China it seems
    ByeThen a criminal club.

    Most impressive is how obvious our current crop of politicians are, about >making big money off of being politicians. It's getting worse here in >America.

    But the rest of the world was already there a long time ago.

    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make
    peace with Russia better for cold winters too,

    What country are you from?

    I am in the Netherlands, where I come from?
    You must know babies are brought by storks,
    but in my case it was obvious from the beginning I was
    dropped here by a flying cup and saucer.


    "We in Europe" are chomping at the bit to go after Russia. Doesn't take
    much encouragement from America.

    Well I followed the thing from the beginning,
    from US sabotaging Northstream 2 to Merkel shutting down nuclear plants,
    what not.
    It is all about US weapon sales, after US left Afghanstan (and their weapons there)
    they needed to sell more
    So a war in Europe (as the other demon-crate Kill Blinton, ehh Bil Klignon, or whatever
    Monica's lover's name, did make war in Europe before).
    Far from their US bad. Cowards!!!

    So, Hunter ByeThen was preparing for war in Ukrain all the way from the begging,
    I notice CNN (Certified No News) and other main news channels are quiet, have Precedent ByeThen show
    Webb telescope pictures, as if he had anything to do with that or even can graps its meaning,
    so media under demon-crate control, Suing Trump for attacking demon-crazy
    so I drop CNN now.. just a ByeThen channel...
    Rise up Americans!!!!! Those reserves were meant to make fuel cheaper for you! As to the glowbal warming crap, CO2 has NOTHING to do with warming, climate change is caused by earth orbit changes, in the past at times CO2 was lagging behind warm periods (use google).
    Your are all being played like a fiddle!!!
    Earthlings rise up, your young generation has been brainwashed by the Al Gore and his polar bear club
    and is now brain dead, beware it may take many generations and a thousand years or more after WW3
    before you can fall for the next plot again!
    Enjoy it now!! Storm the ...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Tue Jul 12 06:36:57 2022
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in ><rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9c7vithf2qi8vggheu@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    Much in the US is fake these days, say Hunter ByeThen.. was just reading >people cracked his cellphone, he sold US oil reserves to China it seems >ByeThen a criminal club.
    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make peace with Russia
    better for cold winters too,




    Let them have all the soviet satellite countries back, in exchange for
    the fossil fuels that you don't want to make?

    That's generous. Include East Germany too. And Poland, the classic
    european play-toy.

    I bet Putin lusts after both. We cound donate Alaska.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 12 06:26:24 2022
    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:33:51 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Tuesday, 12 July 2022 at 01:30:24 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 23:24:49 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:08:31 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    On Monday, 11 July 2022 at 23:00:38 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777

    I think that gets really cheap in volume. I'm impressed.

    These guys used one of our delay generators when they did their
    development.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
    Francis Bacon
    0 In Stock
    Request Stock Notification
    Quantity
    Practically nothing is in stock these days, especially from Digikey.

    It's still impressive. It has a laser, a photodiode, drivers, tia's,
    maybe an ADC, lots of logic, packaging.
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
    Francis Bacon
    Lidar is an old fake
    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    How are those investments working out?
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. >> Francis Bacon
    -hint: Kinect

    Hint: gaming will destroy your brain, or has already.

    Designing electronics is great mental exercize.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Jul 12 15:29:10 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 06:36:57 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <rltqchhma7e2stcf5e7o9h1t3pv04g8k6k@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin >><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in >><rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9c7vithf2qi8vggheu@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com> >>>wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    Much in the US is fake these days, say Hunter ByeThen.. was just reading >>people cracked his cellphone, he sold US oil reserves to China it seems >>ByeThen a criminal club.
    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make peace with Russia
    better for cold winters too,




    Let them have all the soviet satellite countries back, in exchange for
    the fossil fuels that you don't want to make?

    Well, remember Russia did most of the work defeating nazi Germany in WW2 in Europe.
    What is bad? Look at the living conditions _now_ in the US.
    Hell they block all Russian channels and now even Cuba is no longer on sat TV ..
    Was just appreciating how peaceful that place was..
    ByeThen looks a lot like a fascist pig to me, he and his cronies.
    He plays the masses and you jump and do not even know you are just a puppet. Sanctions here sanctions there, using agents everywhere..
    So much fear the US has CREATED, mass murders by US and its 'allies' no end
    was just reading today about the murders by UK forces in Afghanistan.
    Human nature, no reason for me to believe US is better than Russia.
    One ant heap against the other.
    May the best one win (evolution) but radiation after WW3 lasts a long time
    and US is outnumbered.


    That's generous. Include East Germany too. And Poland, the classic
    european play-toy.

    I bet Putin lusts after both. We cound donate Alaska.

    You are in no position to donate anything, your country is bankrupt, fort Knox is empty.
    All you have left is what you stole from others.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Tue Jul 12 09:13:23 2022
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:29:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 06:36:57 -0700) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><rltqchhma7e2stcf5e7o9h1t3pv04g8k6k@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in >>><rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9c7vithf2qi8vggheu@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com> >>>>wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say >>>>much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea >>>most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    Much in the US is fake these days, say Hunter ByeThen.. was just reading >>>people cracked his cellphone, he sold US oil reserves to China it seems >>>ByeThen a criminal club.
    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make peace with Russia
    better for cold winters too,




    Let them have all the soviet satellite countries back, in exchange for
    the fossil fuels that you don't want to make?

    Well, remember Russia did most of the work defeating nazi Germany in WW2 in Europe.
    What is bad? Look at the living conditions _now_ in the US.

    US per capita GDP is about 6x Russia's.




    Hell they block all Russian channels and now even Cuba is no longer on sat TV ..
    Was just appreciating how peaceful that place was..
    ByeThen looks a lot like a fascist pig to me, he and his cronies.
    He plays the masses and you jump and do not even know you are just a puppet. >Sanctions here sanctions there, using agents everywhere..
    So much fear the US has CREATED, mass murders by US and its 'allies' no end >was just reading today about the murders by UK forces in Afghanistan.
    Human nature, no reason for me to believe US is better than Russia.
    One ant heap against the other.
    May the best one win (evolution) but radiation after WW3 lasts a long time >and US is outnumbered.


    That's generous. Include East Germany too. And Poland, the classic
    european play-toy.

    I bet Putin lusts after both. We cound donate Alaska.

    You are in no position to donate anything, your country is bankrupt, fort Knox is empty.


    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the
    US every year?

    All you have left is what you stole from others.

    Not stole, gave. We rebuilt Europe and Japan.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Tue Jul 12 10:52:16 2022
    On 07/12/2022 10:13 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the
    US every year?

    It's a step up from Haiti...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Jul 12 22:52:36 2022
    On 7/12/2022 18:29, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 06:36:57 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <rltqchhma7e2stcf5e7o9h1t3pv04g8k6k@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>> <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
    <rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9c7vithf2qi8vggheu@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    Much in the US is fake these days, say Hunter ByeThen.. was just reading >>> people cracked his cellphone, he sold US oil reserves to China it seems
    ByeThen a criminal club.
    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make peace with Russia
    better for cold winters too,




    Let them have all the soviet satellite countries back, in exchange for
    the fossil fuels that you don't want to make?

    Well, remember Russia did most of the work defeating nazi Germany in WW2 in Europe.
    What is bad? Look at the living conditions _now_ in the US.
    Hell they block all Russian channels and now even Cuba is no longer on sat TV ..
    Was just appreciating how peaceful that place was..
    ByeThen looks a lot like a fascist pig to me, he and his cronies.
    He plays the masses and you jump and do not even know you are just a puppet. Sanctions here sanctions there, using agents everywhere..
    So much fear the US has CREATED, mass murders by US and its 'allies' no end was just reading today about the murders by UK forces in Afghanistan.
    Human nature, no reason for me to believe US is better than Russia.
    One ant heap against the other.
    May the best one win (evolution) but radiation after WW3 lasts a long time and US is outnumbered.

    You may need to visit your doctor.



    That's generous. Include East Germany too. And Poland, the classic
    european play-toy.

    I bet Putin lusts after both. We cound donate Alaska.

    You are in no position to donate anything, your country is bankrupt, fort Knox is empty.
    All you have left is what you stole from others.

    Same suggestion.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Jul 12 19:20:47 2022
    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in news:tak4gb$22s33$1@dont-email.me:

    You are in no position to donate anything,

    You are a goddamned idiot. The text I cut your country is
    bankrupt, fort Knox is empty. All you have left is what you stole
    from others.

    You are a goddamned idiot. A conspiracy theory spouting lunatc,
    that's what Jan Panteltje is.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Jul 12 13:16:24 2022
    On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:45:10 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make peace with Russia
    better for cold winters too,

    Er... how does 'make peace with Russia' work for Ukraine? They aren't aware of any immediate way to do so other than surrender.

    Do you want to 'make peace with Russia' enough to immediately surrender?
    Europe is mostly democratic nations, they could vote to do so, if it were a good
    idea. I'm thinking, there won't be such a vote.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 12 13:52:09 2022
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:52:16 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/12/2022 10:13 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the
    US every year?

    It's a step up from Haiti...

    Actually, we get a lot of immigrants from Europe too. And Asia. San
    Francisco is 34% Asian.

    What the US has always stolen is the world's best brainpower.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Tue Jul 12 16:12:59 2022
    On 07/12/2022 02:52 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:52:16 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/12/2022 10:13 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the
    US every year?

    It's a step up from Haiti...

    Actually, we get a lot of immigrants from Europe too. And Asia. San
    Francisco is 34% Asian.

    What the US has always stolen is the world's best brainpower.


    https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-countries-where-most-of-the-illegal-immigrants-came-from-560962/?singlepage=1

    India, China, and South Korea probably are a net gain in brainpower. I'm
    not sure about the other countries on the top ten list.

    It reminds me when Fat Teddy (Kennedy) was against illegal immigration
    before he was for it after he found all his favorite Irish bartenders
    and maids didn't have green cards.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to rbowman on Tue Jul 12 15:21:53 2022
    On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 00:13:08 UTC+2, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/12/2022 02:52 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:52:16 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/12/2022 10:13 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the >>> US every year?

    It's a step up from Haiti...

    Actually, we get a lot of immigrants from Europe too. And Asia. San Francisco is 34% Asian.

    What the US has always stolen is the world's best brainpower.

    https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-countries-where-most-of-the-illegal-immigrants-came-from-560962/?singlepage=1

    India, China, and South Korea probably are a net gain in brainpower. I'm
    not sure about the other countries on the top ten list.

    It reminds me when Fat Teddy (Kennedy) was against illegal immigration
    before he was for it after he found all his favorite Irish bartenders
    and maids didn't have green cards.
    since none-green-card workers were paid half the rate

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward's Mother@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Jul 13 03:48:02 2022
    Power tends to corrupt.

    Considering how powerless Holland is, being so corrupt is impressive.

    You guys are famous for wooden shoes, the slave trade, and child
    pornography.

    America isn't the only problem. If any other country were as powerful, the world would be much worse off.

    BTW... Your "ByeThen" is cryptic, unlikely anybody can tell for sure what
    that means.





    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 08:03:39 -0000 (UTC)) it happened "Edward's Mother" <always.see@post.header> wrote in <taj9sq$202t8$3@dont-email.me>:

    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    a a <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:

    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    Much in the US is fake these days, say Hunter ByeThen.. was just reading >>> people cracked his cellphone, he sold US oil reserves to China it seems
    ByeThen a criminal club.

    Most impressive is how obvious our current crop of politicians are, about >>making big money off of being politicians. It's getting worse here in >>America.

    But the rest of the world was already there a long time ago.

    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make
    peace with Russia better for cold winters too,

    What country are you from?

    I am in the Netherlands, where I come from?
    You must know babies are brought by storks,
    but in my case it was obvious from the beginning I was
    dropped here by a flying cup and saucer.


    "We in Europe" are chomping at the bit to go after Russia. Doesn't take >>much encouragement from America.

    Well I followed the thing from the beginning,
    from US sabotaging Northstream 2 to Merkel shutting down nuclear plants,
    what not.
    It is all about US weapon sales, after US left Afghanstan (and their weapons there)
    they needed to sell more
    So a war in Europe (as the other demon-crate Kill Blinton, ehh Bil Klignon, or whatever
    Monica's lover's name, did make war in Europe before).
    Far from their US bad. Cowards!!!

    So, Hunter ByeThen was preparing for war in Ukrain all the way from the begging,
    I notice CNN (Certified No News) and other main news channels are quiet, have Precedent ByeThen show
    Webb telescope pictures, as if he had anything to do with that or even can graps its meaning,
    so media under demon-crate control, Suing Trump for attacking demon-crazy
    so I drop CNN now.. just a ByeThen channel...
    Rise up Americans!!!!! Those reserves were meant to make fuel cheaper for you!
    As to the glowbal warming crap, CO2 has NOTHING to do with warming, climate change is caused by earth orbit changes, in the past at times CO2 was lagging behind warm periods (use google).
    Your are all being played like a fiddle!!!
    Earthlings rise up, your young generation has been brainwashed by the Al Gore and his polar bear club
    and is now brain dead, beware it may take many generations and a thousand years or more after WW3
    before you can fall for the next plot again!
    Enjoy it now!! Storm the ...





    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to a a on Tue Jul 12 21:50:43 2022
    On 07/12/2022 04:21 PM, a a wrote:
    On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 00:13:08 UTC+2, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/12/2022 02:52 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:52:16 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 07/12/2022 10:13 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the >>>>> US every year?

    It's a step up from Haiti...

    Actually, we get a lot of immigrants from Europe too. And Asia. San
    Francisco is 34% Asian.

    What the US has always stolen is the world's best brainpower.

    https://www.insidermonkey.com/blog/10-countries-where-most-of-the-illegal-immigrants-came-from-560962/?singlepage=1

    India, China, and South Korea probably are a net gain in brainpower. I'm
    not sure about the other countries on the top ten list.

    It reminds me when Fat Teddy (Kennedy) was against illegal immigration
    before he was for it after he found all his favorite Irish bartenders
    and maids didn't have green cards.
    since none-green-card workers were paid half the rate


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pc38jZQnhhU

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Edward's Mother on Tue Jul 12 21:43:52 2022
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 1:48:08 PM UTC+10, Edward's Mother wrote:
    Power tends to corrupt.

    Considering how powerless Holland is, being so corrupt is impressive.

    Holland is merely one of the seven united provinces of the Netherlands. It's a mistake on par with calling Great Britain England.
    And it isn't corrupt. Jake Isk might be thinking of Belgium.

    You guys are famous for wooden shoes, the slave trade, and child pornography.

    Only with idiots like Jake Isk. Clogs are popular across a rather broader area of northern Europe. Portugal is more famous for the slave trade, and the UK isn't far behind, with France behind them . The Netherlands was barely ahead of Spain, and while
    the US was late getting involved it stiil seems to have shipped half as many slave as those two in the brief time it was active.

    Child pornography does seem to be all over the place. The Dutch are rather more open than most about prosecuting it when they do catch up with a trafficker.

    America isn't the only problem. If any other country were as powerful, the world would be much worse off.

    Some stupid Americans do seem to think so.

    BTW... Your "ByeThen" is cryptic, unlikely anybody can tell for sure what that means.

    Only Jake Isk has a problem decrypting it.

    <snipped the rest>

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Wed Jul 13 06:12:17 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 13:16:24 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in <eb6e43f2-3f5d-4bc0-93fd-d9bc3ef771bdn@googlegroups.com>:

    On Monday, July 11, 2022 at 10:45:10 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make peace with Russia
    better for cold winters too,

    Er... how does 'make peace with Russia' work for Ukraine? They aren't aware >of any immediate way to do so other than surrender.

    Do you want to 'make peace with Russia' enough to immediately surrender? >Europe is mostly democratic nations, they could vote to do so, if it were a good
    idea. I'm thinking, there won't be such a vote.

    Media here and politicians controlled by US..
    Ukrain's shitlensky burning his own people in a fight he cannot win
    EU countries and UK and US supplying him with weapons creating
    debt he can never repay, US selling new weapons like crap F35 to EU.
    What's new?
    Our current dictator US agent rutte in power for his third term.
    EU ruled by flipped out green old women that are against technology ..

    Destruction is imminent
    From the US perspective destroying the Euro seems to work ..
    But US is technological so far behind now, bad Boeing planes,
    not working ICBMs, even Musks latest super thing went just up into flames. China will have a mars base and ask landing rights long before US astronuts even get there, Chinese restaurants on moon and mars...

    So, as Ukrain now counter attacks with US weapons Russia can only respond by nuking the whitehouse or something
    like Kiev.
    2024
    Musk made so many children maybe some will survive WW3 and rebuild what's left..
    ??
    He'd better focus on his business, I warned about his twitter deal here.
    After WW3 not a single 'lectrick thing will work.
    Archaeologists of possible a new species will dig up cellphones and wonder 'how on earth did those humming beans build that?
    Like we now do with pyramids and Maya stuff.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc on Wed Jul 13 06:12:17 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 19:20:47 -0000 (UTC)) it happened DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote in <takhif$331$1@gioia.aioe.org>:

    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in >news:tak4gb$22s33$1@dont-email.me:

    You are in no position to donate anything,

    You are a goddamned idiot. The text I cut your country is
    bankrupt, fort Knox is empty. All you have left is what you stole
    from others.

    You are a goddamned idiot. A conspiracy theory spouting lunatc,
    that's what Jan Panteltje is.

    Native Americans
    And US then did nuke tests on their land

    Right of the strongest?
    But with a dropping IQ below 75 as you confirm here
    other countries being above 100 will be stronger.
    Planet of the apes, I remember that shot of the statute of glibbery laying in the sand.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Jul 13 06:12:17 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:13:23 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <a67rchhsbngehtmf405mtdr8gl0s7t4uta@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:29:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 06:36:57 -0700) it happened >>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >><rltqchhma7e2stcf5e7o9h1t3pv04g8k6k@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in >>>><rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9c7vithf2qi8vggheu@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com> >>>>>wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say >>>>>much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea >>>>most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    Much in the US is fake these days, say Hunter ByeThen.. was just reading >>>>people cracked his cellphone, he sold US oil reserves to China it seems >>>>ByeThen a criminal club.
    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make peace with Russia
    better for cold winters too,




    Let them have all the soviet satellite countries back, in exchange for >>>the fossil fuels that you don't want to make?

    Well, remember Russia did most of the work defeating nazi Germany in WW2 in Europe.
    What is bad? Look at the living conditions _now_ in the US.

    US per capita GDP is about 6x Russia's.




    Hell they block all Russian channels and now even Cuba is no longer on sat TV ..
    Was just appreciating how peaceful that place was..
    ByeThen looks a lot like a fascist pig to me, he and his cronies.
    He plays the masses and you jump and do not even know you are just a puppet. >>Sanctions here sanctions there, using agents everywhere..
    So much fear the US has CREATED, mass murders by US and its 'allies' no end >>was just reading today about the murders by UK forces in Afghanistan.
    Human nature, no reason for me to believe US is better than Russia.
    One ant heap against the other.
    May the best one win (evolution) but radiation after WW3 lasts a long time >>and US is outnumbered.


    That's generous. Include East Germany too. And Poland, the classic >>>european play-toy.

    I bet Putin lusts after both. We cound donate Alaska.

    You are in no position to donate anything, your country is bankrupt, fort Knox is empty.


    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the
    US every year?

    All you have left is what you stole from others.

    Not stole, gave. We rebuilt Europe and Japan.

    Stole from the Native Americans
    nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki
    making wars in Europe

    Vietnam agent Orange
    Iraq depleted uranium
    Afhanistan mass murder by drones
    Iran sanctions stealing money and fuel

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Jul 13 01:00:04 2022
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:13:23 -0700) it happened jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <a67rchhsbngehtmf4...@4ax.com>:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:29:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You are in no position to donate anything, your country is bankrupt, fort Knox is empty.

    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the
    US every year?

    All you have left is what you stole from others.

    Not stole, gave. We rebuilt Europe and Japan.

    Stole from the Native Americans

    ... negotiated a bunch of privileges for them as well; fishing rights are still being negotiated,
    because dams are both water resources and encroachments on obligatory rights-to-fish

    nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki

    not without provocation

    making wars in Europe

    no, rather joining them when the Atlantic became a battlefield (according to some hisorians)

    Vietnam agent Orange

    Poisoning our own soldiers with a pesticide? Relevance?

    Iraq depleted uranium

    Antitank weaponry used appropriately... no issue there, just minor waste cleanup

    Afhanistan mass murder by drones

    No, selectivity rather than area weaponry.

    Iran sanctions stealing money and fuel

    Huh? Iran first looted our embasssy, kept our diplomats as hostages, a clear act of war.

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement to speak of.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Wed Jul 13 07:09:55 2022
    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 06:12:17 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:13:23 -0700) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><a67rchhsbngehtmf405mtdr8gl0s7t4uta@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:29:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 06:36:57 -0700) it happened >>>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >>><rltqchhma7e2stcf5e7o9h1t3pv04g8k6k@4ax.com>:

    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje >>>><pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>>><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in >>>>><rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9c7vithf2qi8vggheu@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com> >>>>>>wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say >>>>>>much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea >>>>>most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    Much in the US is fake these days, say Hunter ByeThen.. was just reading >>>>>people cracked his cellphone, he sold US oil reserves to China it seems >>>>>ByeThen a criminal club.
    We in Europe should immediately ditch the Criminal lead US and make peace with Russia
    better for cold winters too,




    Let them have all the soviet satellite countries back, in exchange for >>>>the fossil fuels that you don't want to make?

    Well, remember Russia did most of the work defeating nazi Germany in WW2 in Europe.
    What is bad? Look at the living conditions _now_ in the US.

    US per capita GDP is about 6x Russia's.




    Hell they block all Russian channels and now even Cuba is no longer on sat TV ..
    Was just appreciating how peaceful that place was..
    ByeThen looks a lot like a fascist pig to me, he and his cronies.
    He plays the masses and you jump and do not even know you are just a puppet. >>>Sanctions here sanctions there, using agents everywhere..
    So much fear the US has CREATED, mass murders by US and its 'allies' no end >>>was just reading today about the murders by UK forces in Afghanistan. >>>Human nature, no reason for me to believe US is better than Russia.
    One ant heap against the other.
    May the best one win (evolution) but radiation after WW3 lasts a long time >>>and US is outnumbered.


    That's generous. Include East Germany too. And Poland, the classic >>>>european play-toy.

    I bet Putin lusts after both. We cound donate Alaska.

    You are in no position to donate anything, your country is bankrupt, fort Knox is empty.


    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the
    US every year?

    All you have left is what you stole from others.

    Not stole, gave. We rebuilt Europe and Japan.

    Stole from the Native Americans

    Natives are welcome to return to being hunter-gatherers living in
    tents with no electricity, no jeeps, no horses, no guns, no medicine,
    no written language, and no internet. Then they could possibly find
    someone from another tribe to torture, in the traditional manner.

    Few seem to make that choice.




    nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki

    Saved a million lives probably.

    making wars in Europe

    Europe has been at peace, Pax Americana, for 75 years now. I think
    that's a 2000-year record.

    Well, it was until Russia started this war. Patton wanted to keep
    charging east into Russia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Jul 13 14:53:53 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    <snip>

    Stole from the Native Americans

    Natives are welcome to return to being hunter-gatherers living in
    tents with no electricity, no jeeps, no horses, no guns, no medicine,
    no written language, and no internet. Then they could possibly find
    someone from another tribe to torture, in the traditional manner.

    Few seem to make that choice.

    Take a look at this picture, John. It illustrates how Warren Buffett's
    greed takes precedence over the Fort Laramie Treaty.

    <https://d3oj2y7irryo5z.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/STANDING-ROCK19.jpg>

    The civilians are indigenous people at Standing Rock Indian Reservation.
    Warren Buffett sent in outsiders, the uniformed quasi-military force, to protect his financial interests.

    Danke,

    --
    Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
    There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
    She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Wed Jul 13 14:47:29 2022
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in <62706c9e-b801-47da-b1c1-91defd323cf9n@googlegroups.com>:

    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:13:23 -0700) it happened
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <a67rchhsbngehtmf4...@4ax.com>:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:29:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You are in no position to donate anything, your country is bankrupt, fort Knox is empty.

    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the
    US every year?

    All you have left is what you stole from others.

    Not stole, gave. We rebuilt Europe and Japan.

    Stole from the Native Americans

    ... negotiated a bunch of privileges for them as well; fishing rights are still being negotiated,
    because dams are both water resources and encroachments on obligatory rights-to-fish

    nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki

    not without provocation

    making wars in Europe

    no, rather joining them when the Atlantic became a battlefield (according to >some hisorians)

    Vietnam agent Orange

    Poisoning our own soldiers with a pesticide? Relevance?

    Iraq depleted uranium

    Antitank weaponry used appropriately... no issue there, just minor waste cleanup

    Afhanistan mass murder by drones

    No, selectivity rather than area weaponry.

    Iran sanctions stealing money and fuel

    Huh? Iran first looted our embasssy, kept our diplomats as hostages, a clear act of war.

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement >to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Jul 13 15:28:12 2022
    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in news:talo8d$2a6go$2@dont-email.me:

    Native Americans
    And US then did nuke tests on their land

    Whoopie doo. Nations have done bad things thoughout history.
    Idiots like you do bad things throught generations. Your entire
    bloodline should be erased, punk.

    Right of the strongest?

    You are a goddamned retard, JanPan. It does not get more stupid
    than you are. I just cannot wait till you have your heart attack and
    die in writhing pain.

    But with a dropping IQ below 75 as you confirm here

    More petty, holier than thou stupidity, from the group's most
    stupid dope. You could be a little more stupid, just not in this
    life.

    other countries being above 100 will be stronger.

    You have no grasp of how a bell curve works either, obviously.

    Planet of the apes, I remember that shot of the statute of
    glibbery laying in the sand.

    "glibbery"? How about Jan Panteltje is about the most stupid
    motherfucker claiming to be a scientist in the entire world. It does
    not get more stupid than you are, with the exception of Donald John
    Trump, the criminal buffoon.

    You are simply a nut case buffoon. With the stupid shit you
    embrace, you will never even make "100 IQ", child.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Jul 13 15:35:38 2022
    Jan Panteltje <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote in news:tammee$2d43r$1@dont-email.me:

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    You are a goddamned liar. Goddamned liars like you are who folks
    should go around killing. Liars deserve death. Liars like you
    deserve painful death.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was)

    More retarded foreigner spouting his retarded disrespect, trying to
    get a rise out of folks in this group. You went from someone with a
    little intelligence to a complete buffoon nearly everyone in the
    group has blocked.

    financed
    creating covid

    You are a goddamned utter idiot.

    and that backfired too and killed millions.

    If I were rich, I would go around the globe erasing absolute
    dumbfucks like you.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to Don on Wed Jul 13 08:58:48 2022
    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 14:53:53 -0000 (UTC), "Don" <g@crcomp.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    <snip>

    Stole from the Native Americans

    Natives are welcome to return to being hunter-gatherers living in
    tents with no electricity, no jeeps, no horses, no guns, no medicine,
    no written language, and no internet. Then they could possibly find
    someone from another tribe to torture, in the traditional manner.

    Few seem to make that choice.

    Take a look at this picture, John. It illustrates how Warren Buffett's
    greed takes precedence over the Fort Laramie Treaty.

    <https://d3oj2y7irryo5z.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/STANDING-ROCK19.jpg>

    The civilians are indigenous people at Standing Rock Indian Reservation. >Warren Buffett sent in outsiders, the uniformed quasi-military force, to >protect his financial interests.

    Danke,

    Water spray is rarely lethal.

    Are those Indigenous Peoples being hosed down? Dressed in jeans and
    tee shirts and running shoes and baseball caps?

    https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/standing-rock-sioux-defend-their-water-lands-fight-against-dakota-access-pipeline?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxpHujpv2-AIVzTytBh0dtAhiEAAYASAAEgLoQ_D_BwE

    I assume those natives abstain from using any fossil fuels that they
    don't gather themselves by hand. I guess they all walked to the
    protest.

    Interesting Native American name, Dave Archambault.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 13 09:42:02 2022
    On 07/13/2022 02:00 AM, whit3rd wrote:
    Iran sanctions stealing money and fuel
    Huh? Iran first looted our embasssy, kept our diplomats as hostages, a clear act of war.

    I suppose the CIA sponsored overthrow of a democratically elected
    government in 1953 on behalf of the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company was fine?


    Try google for US regime change since WW2
    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement to speak of.

    https://www.huffpost.com/entry/john-bolton-coup-trump-jan-6-committee_n_62cde555e4b007c97c83fa1f?8iv

    I wonder if he and Nuland cooked up Euromaidan?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Wed Jul 13 16:32:04 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Don wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    <snip>

    Stole from the Native Americans

    Natives are welcome to return to being hunter-gatherers living in
    tents with no electricity, no jeeps, no horses, no guns, no medicine,
    no written language, and no internet. Then they could possibly find
    someone from another tribe to torture, in the traditional manner.

    Few seem to make that choice.

    Take a look at this picture, John. It illustrates how Warren Buffett's >>greed takes precedence over the Fort Laramie Treaty.
    <https://d3oj2y7irryo5z.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/STANDING-RO CK19.jpg>

    The civilians are indigenous people at Standing Rock Indian Reservation. >>Warren Buffett sent in outsiders, the uniformed quasi-military force, to >>protect his financial interests.

    Danke,

    Water spray is rarely lethal.

    Are those Indigenous Peoples being hosed down? Dressed in jeans and
    tee shirts and running shoes and baseball caps?

    https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/standing-rock-sioux-defend-their-water-lands-fight-against-dakota-access-pipeline?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxpHujpv2-AIVzTytBh0dtAhiEAAYASAAEgLoQ_D_BwE

    I assume those natives abstain from using any fossil fuels that they
    don't gather themselves by hand. I guess they all walked to the
    protest.

    Interesting Native American name, Dave Archambault.

    Two wrongs don't make a right. You need to offer me something more than
    non sequitors if you want to convince me to change my mind about how the
    Fort Laramie Treaty was trumped by Warren Buffett's greed.

    Danke,

    --
    Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
    There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
    She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Jul 13 20:59:10 2022
    On 7/13/2022 17:47, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote in <62706c9e-b801-47da-b1c1-91defd323cf9n@googlegroups.com>:

    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 12 Jul 2022 09:13:23 -0700) it happened
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <a67rchhsbngehtmf4...@4ax.com>:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 15:29:10 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    You are in no position to donate anything, your country is bankrupt, fort Knox is empty.

    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the >>>> US every year?

    All you have left is what you stole from others.

    Not stole, gave. We rebuilt Europe and Japan.

    Stole from the Native Americans

    ... negotiated a bunch of privileges for them as well; fishing rights are still being negotiated,
    because dams are both water resources and encroachments on obligatory rights-to-fish

    nuked Hiroshima and Nagasaki

    not without provocation

    making wars in Europe

    no, rather joining them when the Atlantic became a battlefield (according to >> some hisorians)

    Vietnam agent Orange

    Poisoning our own soldiers with a pesticide? Relevance?

    Iraq depleted uranium

    Antitank weaponry used appropriately... no issue there, just minor waste cleanup

    Afhanistan mass murder by drones

    No, selectivity rather than area weaponry.

    Iran sanctions stealing money and fuel

    Huh? Iran first looted our embasssy, kept our diplomats as hostages, a clear act of war.

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,
    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.


    So the doctor could not help after all.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Jul 13 11:31:05 2022
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop. <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Wed Jul 13 14:53:45 2022
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in ><rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9c7vithf2qi8vggheu@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.


    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it's
    pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be microwatts.



    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Jul 13 15:50:28 2022
    On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 23:54:04 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in ><rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9...@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.
    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it's
    pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be microwatts.
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon
    you are not correct
    it doesn't matter pulsed or not,
    laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people

    Use of Lidar should be banned in crowded environments world-wide

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 13 16:41:47 2022
    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:50:28 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 23:54:04 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin
    <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
    <rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9...@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.
    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it's
    pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be microwatts.
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. >> Francis Bacon
    you are not correct
    it doesn't matter pulsed or not,
    laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people


    Except that this is hardly a beam; it's a wide fan. Just because it's
    a laser doesn't make it dangerous. Power density makes light
    dangerous.

    I don't think ST would sell it if it's dangerous.

    Around here, we have swarms of Waymo cars that have spinning lidar
    things all over them. I bet they are 1000x as powerful as that tiny ST
    brick.

    https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/21/71/20/21468178/3/1200x0.jpg

    Once in a while we even see a giant thermonuclear light source in the
    sky. I hear it can be dangerous to look at.



    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 13 20:03:57 2022
    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 16:41:47 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:


    .<https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777>

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:50:28 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 23:54:04 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>> ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
    <rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9...@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.
    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it's
    pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be microwatts.
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. >>> Francis Bacon
    you are not correct
    it doesn't matter pulsed or not,
    laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people


    Except that this is hardly a beam; it's a wide fan. Just because it's
    a laser doesn't make it dangerous. Power density makes light
    dangerous.

    I don't think ST would sell it if it's dangerous.

    Around here, we have swarms of Waymo cars that have spinning lidar
    things all over them. I bet they are 1000x as powerful as that tiny ST
    brick.

    .<https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/21/71/20/21468178/3/1200x0.jpg>

    Once in a while we even see a giant thermonuclear light source in the
    sky. I hear it can be dangerous to look at.

    I bet that lidar unit meets the same eye safety requirements as for an
    ordinary laser pointer or fiber optic IR communications laser.
    Otherwise, ST would have to jump through impossible hoops.

    Looked at the VL53L4CX datasheet. See Chapter 8 (Laser safety
    considerations): IEC 60825-1:2014 (third edition). Meets Class I
    safety, which means no restrictions, even without eye protection.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jul 13 17:18:56 2022
    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 20:03:57 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 16:41:47 -0700, John Larkin ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:


    .<https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777>

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:50:28 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 23:54:04 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>> ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
    <rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9...@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say >>>> >>much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea >>>> >most can be done better and safer with cameras.
    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it's
    pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be microwatts.
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
    Francis Bacon
    you are not correct
    it doesn't matter pulsed or not,
    laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people


    Except that this is hardly a beam; it's a wide fan. Just because it's
    a laser doesn't make it dangerous. Power density makes light
    dangerous.

    I don't think ST would sell it if it's dangerous.

    Around here, we have swarms of Waymo cars that have spinning lidar
    things all over them. I bet they are 1000x as powerful as that tiny ST >>brick.

    .<https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/21/71/20/21468178/3/1200x0.jpg>

    Once in a while we even see a giant thermonuclear light source in the
    sky. I hear it can be dangerous to look at.

    I bet that lidar unit meets the same eye safety requirements as for an >ordinary laser pointer or fiber optic IR communications laser.
    Otherwise, ST would have to jump through impossible hoops.

    Looked at the VL53L4CX datasheet. See Chapter 8 (Laser safety >considerations): IEC 60825-1:2014 (third edition). Meets Class I
    safety, which means no restrictions, even without eye protection.

    Joe Gwinn


    I wonder if it's pulsed. It has picosecond distance resolution so any
    laser pulses would have to be very short, hence low power.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to Don on Wed Jul 13 20:01:16 2022
    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 16:32:04 -0000 (UTC), "Don" <g@crcomp.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Don wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:

    <snip>

    Stole from the Native Americans

    Natives are welcome to return to being hunter-gatherers living in
    tents with no electricity, no jeeps, no horses, no guns, no medicine,
    no written language, and no internet. Then they could possibly find
    someone from another tribe to torture, in the traditional manner.

    Few seem to make that choice.

    Take a look at this picture, John. It illustrates how Warren Buffett's >>>greed takes precedence over the Fort Laramie Treaty.
    <https://d3oj2y7irryo5z.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2016/12/STANDING-RO
    CK19.jpg>

    The civilians are indigenous people at Standing Rock Indian Reservation. >>>Warren Buffett sent in outsiders, the uniformed quasi-military force, to >>>protect his financial interests.

    Danke,

    Water spray is rarely lethal.

    Are those Indigenous Peoples being hosed down? Dressed in jeans and
    tee shirts and running shoes and baseball caps?

    https://www.culturalsurvival.org/news/standing-rock-sioux-defend-their-water-lands-fight-against-dakota-access-pipeline?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIxpHujpv2-AIVzTytBh0dtAhiEAAYASAAEgLoQ_D_BwE

    I assume those natives abstain from using any fossil fuels that they
    don't gather themselves by hand. I guess they all walked to the
    protest.

    Interesting Native American name, Dave Archambault.

    Two wrongs don't make a right. You need to offer me something more than
    non sequitors if you want to convince me to change my mind about how the
    Fort Laramie Treaty was trumped by Warren Buffett's greed.

    Actually, I don't need to do that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From boB@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology. on Wed Jul 13 20:53:08 2022
    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:00:27 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:


    https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777

    I think that gets really cheap in volume. I'm impressed.

    These guys used one of our delay generators when they did their
    development.

    CooL part !

    Mouser has them in stock. Same price as Digikey

    boB

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Wed Jul 13 22:57:57 2022
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 6:52:20 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 10:52:16 -0600, rbowman <bow...@montana.com> wrote:
    On 07/12/2022 10:13 AM, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Is that why millions of people emigrate, legally and illegally, to the US every year?

    It's a step up from Haiti...

    Actually, we get a lot of immigrants from Europe too. And Asia. San Francisco is 34% Asian.

    The US is a less popular destination than it used to be. For most Europeans it isn't a great place to raise your kids, since the US education system now sucks as badly as the health care system. This wasn't true when I was young, but the current crop of
    gradate students and post-docs may still want to spend a year or so there to polish their English, but they really don't want to make careers there.

    What the US has always stolen is the world's best brainpower.

    It used to. It no longer offers an attractive environment for intelligent people. John Larkin isn't all that intelligent, and he hasn't noticed.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to a a on Thu Jul 14 07:09:08 2022
    a a <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote in news:69444b2d-186b-4687-b830-d799fb04c2c0n@googlegroups.com:

    On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 23:54:04 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
    <rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9...@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a
    <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to
    not say much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad
    idea most can be done better and safer with cameras.
    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If
    it's pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be
    microwatts. --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in
    certainties. Francis Bacon
    you are not correct
    it doesn't matter pulsed or not,
    laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people

    Use of Lidar should be banned in crowded environments world-wide


    LIDAR (all caps acronym) is harmless. A laser pointer, at a mere
    few milliwatts, however, can cause retinal damage. You obviously
    have only a cursory grasp of the situation.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Thu Jul 14 07:12:24 2022
    Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in news:vrmuch552ud1rv83u946ev0ndf9c7mnctc@4ax.com:

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 16:41:47 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:


    .<https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL5 3L4CXV0DH-1/16123777>

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:50:28 -0700 (PDT), a a
    <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 23:54:04 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
    <rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9...@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a
    <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to
    not say much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a
    bad idea most can be done better and safer with cameras.
    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED.
    If it's pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be
    microwatts. --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in
    certainties. Francis Bacon
    you are not correct
    it doesn't matter pulsed or not,
    laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people


    Except that this is hardly a beam; it's a wide fan. Just because
    it's a laser doesn't make it dangerous. Power density makes light >>dangerous.

    I don't think ST would sell it if it's dangerous.

    Around here, we have swarms of Waymo cars that have spinning lidar
    things all over them. I bet they are 1000x as powerful as that
    tiny ST brick.

    .<https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/21/71/20/21468178/3/1200x0.jpg>

    Once in a while we even see a giant thermonuclear light source in
    the sky. I hear it can be dangerous to look at.

    I bet that lidar unit meets the same eye safety requirements as
    for an ordinary laser pointer or fiber optic IR communications
    laser. Otherwise, ST would have to jump through impossible hoops.

    Looked at the VL53L4CX datasheet. See Chapter 8 (Laser safety considerations): IEC 60825-1:2014 (third edition). Meets Class I
    safety, which means no restrictions, even without eye protection.

    Joe Gwinn

    Yes, class 1. It meets that, however, a simple class 1 laser
    pointer is dangerous if one looks directly at the beam.

    LIDAR is a pulsed fanning. A laser pointer is a focused beam.

    Both class one, but the latter is dangerous.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez Loves Porn@21:1/5 to a a on Thu Jul 14 09:01:24 2022
    a a <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    a a wrote:

    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it's
    pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be microwatts.

    you are not correct
    it doesn't matter pulsed or not,
    laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people

    My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
    laser beam on certain patient's eyes.

    One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to Edward Hernandez Loves Porn on Thu Jul 14 04:12:30 2022
    On Thursday, 14 July 2022 at 11:01:31 UTC+2, Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:
    a a <mant...@gmail.com> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    a a wrote:

    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say >> >> much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea >> > most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it's
    pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be microwatts.
    you are not correct
    it doesn't matter pulsed or not,
    laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people
    My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
    laser beam on certain patient's eyes.

    One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.
    use of lasers in crowdy environments is banned

    Pointing a laser at an airplane pilot is considered a terrorist act

    ====

    Laser safety standards, classes, regulations make no difference, since implemented by laser stackholders

    So use of Lidar in public cars is banned, use of Lidar in road traffic is banned
    and Elon fired the whole 200-man Autopilot team, experimenting with lasers in Teslas.

    https://www.marketwatch.com/story/teslas-top-ai-exec-andrej-karpathy-who-helped-develop-autopilot-is-leaving-11657753546?mod=mw_latestnews

    ==

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety

    "Laser pointers
    Main article: Laser pointer
    Laser pointers

    In the period from 1999 to 2016, increasing attention has been paid to the risks posed by so-called laser pointers and laser pens. Typically, the sale of laser pointers is restricted to either class 3A (<5 mW) or class 2 (<1 mW), depending on local
    regulations. For example, in the US, Canada and the UK, class 3A is the maximum permitted, unless a key actuated control or other safety features are provided.[31] In Australia, class 2 is the maximum allowed class. However, because enforcement is often
    not very strict, laser pointers of class 2 and above are often available for sale even in countries where they are not allowed.

    Van Norren et al. (1998)[32] could not find a single example in the medical literature of a <1 mW class III laser causing eyesight damage. Mainster et al. (2003)[33] provide one case, an 11-year-old child who temporarily damaged her eyesight by holding
    an approximately 5 mW red laser pointer close to the eye and staring into the beam for 10 seconds; she experienced scotoma (a blind spot) but fully recovered after three months. Luttrull & Hallisey (1999) describe a similar case, a 34-year-old male who
    stared into the beam of a class IIIa 5 mW red laser for 30 to 60 seconds, causing temporary central scotoma and visual field loss. His eyesight fully recovered within two days, at the time of his eye exam. An intravenous fundus fluorescein angiogram, a
    technique used by ophthalmologists to visualise the retina of the eye in fine detail, identified subtle discoloration of the fovea.

    Thus, it appears that a brief 0.25-second exposure to a <5 mW laser such as found in red laser pointers does not pose a threat to eye health. On the other hand, there is a potential for injury if a person deliberately stares into a beam of a class IIIa
    laser for few seconds or more at close range. Even if injury occurs, most people will fully recover their vision. Further experienced discomforts than these may be psychological rather than physical. With regard to green laser pointers the safe exposure
    time may be less, and with even higher powered lasers instant permanent damage should be expected. These conclusions must be qualified with recent theoretical observations that certain prescription medications may interact with some wavelengths of laser
    light, causing increased sensitivity (phototoxicity).

    Beyond the question of physical injury to the eye from a laser pointer, several other undesirable effects are possible. These include short-lived flash blindness if the beam is encountered in darkened surroundings, as when driving at night. This may
    result in momentary loss of vehicular control. Lasers pointed at aircraft are a hazard to aviation. A police officer seeing a red dot on his chest may conclude that a sniper is targeting him and take aggressive action.[34] In addition, the startle reflex
    exhibited by some exposed unexpectedly to laser light of this sort has been reported to have resulted in cases of self-injury or loss of control. For these and similar reasons, the US Food and Drug Administration has advised that laser pointers are not
    toys and should not be used by minors except under the direct supervision of an adult.

    ===
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_safety

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology. on Thu Jul 14 10:04:42 2022
    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 17:18:56 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 20:03:57 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 16:41:47 -0700, John Larkin >><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

    .<https://www.digikey.com/en/products/detail/stmicroelectronics/VL53L4CXV0DH-1/16123777>

    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 15:50:28 -0700 (PDT), a a <manta103g@gmail.com> >>>wrote:

    On Wednesday, 13 July 2022 at 23:54:04 UTC+2, John Larkin wrote:
    On Tue, 12 Jul 2022 05:36:35 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Mon, 11 Jul 2022 16:30:13 -0700) it happened John Larkin >>>>> ><jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote in
    <rgcpchl8hbtbbcgs9...@4ax.com>:

    On Mon, 11 Jul 2022 14:49:37 -0700 (PDT), a a <mant...@gmail.com>
    wrote:
    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say >>>>> >>much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea >>>>> >most can be done better and safer with cameras.
    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it's >>>>> pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be microwatts.
    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.
    Francis Bacon
    you are not correct
    it doesn't matter pulsed or not,
    laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people


    Except that this is hardly a beam; it's a wide fan. Just because it's
    a laser doesn't make it dangerous. Power density makes light
    dangerous.

    I don't think ST would sell it if it's dangerous.

    Around here, we have swarms of Waymo cars that have spinning lidar
    things all over them. I bet they are 1000x as powerful as that tiny ST >>>brick.

    .<https://s.hdnux.com/photos/01/21/71/20/21468178/3/1200x0.jpg>

    Once in a while we even see a giant thermonuclear light source in the >>>sky. I hear it can be dangerous to look at.

    I bet that lidar unit meets the same eye safety requirements as for an >>ordinary laser pointer or fiber optic IR communications laser.
    Otherwise, ST would have to jump through impossible hoops.

    Looked at the VL53L4CX datasheet. See Chapter 8 (Laser safety >>considerations): IEC 60825-1:2014 (third edition). Meets Class I
    safety, which means no restrictions, even without eye protection.

    Joe Gwinn


    I wonder if it's pulsed. It has picosecond distance resolution so any
    laser pulses would have to be very short, hence low power.

    The datasheet implies that it is pulsed. Probably a ultra-wideband
    signal modulating the laser.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to always.view@post.header on Thu Jul 14 07:27:44 2022
    On Thu, 14 Jul 2022 09:01:24 -0000 (UTC), Edward Hernandez Loves Porn <always.view@post.header> wrote:

    a a <manta103g@gmail.com> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    John Larkin wrote:
    a a wrote:

    Lidar is an old fake

    You are determined to be both ignorant and offensive, and to not say
    much about electronics.

    He gave some good reasons pointing lasers at the public is a bad idea
    most can be done better and safer with cameras.

    The laser emission angle is 29 degrees, no worst than an LED. If it's
    pulsed, I'd expect the average optical power to be microwatts.

    you are not correct
    it doesn't matter pulsed or not,
    laser beam should never been directed at eyes of people

    My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
    laser beam on certain patient's eyes.

    One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is for >cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the stitch >without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.

    After cataract surgery, I got a "secondary cataract", namely clouding
    of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the
    center part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes.
    He left some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed
    that later.

    I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it
    welded to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach,
    so that helps.

    I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
    other eye soon. I'll ask them to spot weld that one too.

    So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 14 12:22:14 2022
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop. <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try teasing
    him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
    dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jul 14 12:05:49 2022
    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:31:05 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    Great book:

    https://www.amazon.com/Band-Played-Politics-Epidemic-20th-Anniversary/dp/0312374631/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MY39G2KTGHC2&keywords=and+the+band+played+on&qid=1657825484&s=books&sprefix=and+the%2Cstripbooks%2C114&sr=1-1

    Randy wrote that as he was dying of AIDS.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Thu Jul 14 18:53:40 2022
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 2:22:23 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop. <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>

    Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try teasing
    him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
    dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)

    Holland was one of the original seven united provinces of the Netherlands. It's now divided into North and South Holland, and both are still provinces.

    If you want to be rude about the Dutch nation-state, the Netherlands, you need to get the name right, otherwise people won't take you seriously. "Wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause starvation overseas" seem to be similarly off-
    the-wall.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez Smells Funny@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 15 09:28:52 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:

    My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
    laser beam on certain patient's eyes.

    One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
    for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
    stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.

    After cataract surgery, I got a "secondary cataract", namely clouding
    of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
    part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
    some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
    later.

    I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
    to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
    helps.

    I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
    other eye soon. I'll ask them to spot weld that one too.

    So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

    Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific distance from the laser, so the beam doesn't damage tissue on the way to
    that point?

    Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of interest?

    Neat stuff.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Edward Hernandez Smells Funny on Fri Jul 15 04:34:34 2022
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 7:28:58 PM UTC+10, Edward Hernandez Smells Funny wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:
    My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
    laser beam on certain patient's eyes.

    One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
    for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
    stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.

    After cataract surgery, I got a "secondary cataract", namely clouding
    of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
    some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
    later.

    I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
    to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that helps.

    I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
    other eye soon. I'll ask them to spot weld that one too.

    So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

    Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific distance from the laser, so the beam doesn't damage tissue on the way to
    that point?

    It could be a focussing lens, but the aqueous and vitreous humors are transparent (as they have to be for the eye to work) so not a lot of the laser energy would get deposited there anyway.

    Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of interest?

    They may select the lasing medium (and any frequency multiplication that they may go in for) with a view to getting an effective frequency at the targetted point, but tweaking a laser frequency isn't all that easy

    Neat stuff.

    Neater than it used to be.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri Jul 15 14:27:07 2022
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
    whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
    were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
    involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
    covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
    instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
    rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
    dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
    *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
    people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From marty@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Fri Jul 15 22:58:55 2022
    On 15/7/22 21:34, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 7:28:58 PM UTC+10, Edward Hernandez Smells Funny wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:
    My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a >>>> laser beam on certain patient's eyes.

    One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is >>>> for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the >>>> stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.

    After cataract surgery, I got a "secondary cataract", namely clouding
    of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
    part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
    some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
    later.

    I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded >>> to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
    helps.

    I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
    other eye soon. I'll ask them to spot weld that one too.

    So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

    Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific
    distance from the laser, so the beam doesn't damage tissue on the way to
    that point?

    It could be a focussing lens, but the aqueous and vitreous humors are transparent (as they have to be for the eye to work) so not a lot of the laser energy would get deposited there anyway.

    Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of interest?

    They may select the lasing medium (and any frequency multiplication that they may go in for) with a view to getting an effective frequency at the targetted point, but tweaking a laser frequency isn't all that easy

    Neat stuff.

    Neater than it used to be.

    The sign on our eye surgeons laser room mentions a fixed frequency in
    its warning.

    --
    Marty

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 15 06:31:55 2022
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
    whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
    were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
    involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
    covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for
    instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy
    rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try teasing
    him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
    dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause
    starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the >Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, >technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
    *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
    people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
    be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
    country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
    history.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to Funny on Fri Jul 15 06:34:43 2022
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 09:28:52 -0000 (UTC), Edward Hernandez Smells
    Funny <view@post.header> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:

    My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
    laser beam on certain patient's eyes.

    One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
    for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
    stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.

    After cataract surgery, I got a "secondary cataract", namely clouding
    of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
    part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
    some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
    later.

    I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
    to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
    helps.

    I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
    other eye soon. I'll ask them to spot weld that one too.

    So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

    Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific >distance from the laser, so the beam doesn't damage tissue on the way to
    that point?

    Do they adjust the frequency so that it operates only on the material of >interest?

    Neat stuff.

    Your nym is dumb and repulsive.

    Do you have a name?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 15 07:47:13 2022
    fredag den 15. juli 2022 kl. 13.27.16 UTC+2 skrev Dimiter Popoff:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
    whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
    were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
    involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
    covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for
    instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy
    rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
    dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs
    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
    *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
    people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    seems like they have just convinced themselves that anything the western media, "establishment", and most people
    believe must be something the "Illuminati" has planted so it must be wrong, and the opposite how ever silly is it must be correct

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 15 17:20:24 2022
    On 7/15/2022 16:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
    whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>
    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
    were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
    involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
    covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
    instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
    rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try teasing >>> him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
    dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause >>> starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
    technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
    *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
    people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
    be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
    country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
    history.


    Unfortunately you are correct. No such thing as a "normal prosperous
    country" in sight. It appears that even the younger generations, those
    who were brought up in post soviet times has not evolved much. The
    regularity they put some psychopath in the Kremlin with speaks for
    itself.

    What is puzzling is how people *outside* of the Russian environment
    sympathize with the Russian imperial ambitions and believe their
    propaganda nonsense.
    Part of the reason for such people to exist must be some plain
    inferiority complex, they see themselves as having no chance in the
    civilized world so they look for the saviour, being fine with one
    who would erase the civilization they cannot fit in the way they
    would like to.
    But may be there is more than that to it, to fall for the *utter
    nonsense* of the Russian propaganda takes some sort of a mental
    condition.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 15 08:00:20 2022
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:20:24 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 7/15/2022 16:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened >>>>>> whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>
    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we >>>>>>> were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US >>>>>>> involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating >>>>>> covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for
    instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy
    rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try teasing >>>> him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their fingers in
    dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are going to cause >>>> starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is famous for. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense. >>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
    technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
    *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
    people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
    be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
    country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
    history.


    Unfortunately you are correct. No such thing as a "normal prosperous
    country" in sight. It appears that even the younger generations, those
    who were brought up in post soviet times has not evolved much. The
    regularity they put some psychopath in the Kremlin with speaks for
    itself.

    What is puzzling is how people *outside* of the Russian environment >sympathize with the Russian imperial ambitions and believe their
    propaganda nonsense.

    In the times before WWII it was obvious that the USSR was run by
    murderous psychopaths, but there were lots of people in England and
    the US who idolized the workers paradise.



    Part of the reason for such people to exist must be some plain
    inferiority complex, they see themselves as having no chance in the
    civilized world so they look for the saviour, being fine with one
    who would erase the civilization they cannot fit in the way they
    would like to.
    But may be there is more than that to it, to fall for the *utter
    nonsense* of the Russian propaganda takes some sort of a mental
    condition.

    Yes. When theory is confounded by reality, some people stick with
    theory.

    I made two good friends when I was in the USSR, and both came to live
    with me here for a year or so. Sergei, the native Russian, never
    learned English and didn't like America and went back to Moscow. Nick,
    a Ukranian, loved the US and stayed and imported his family. He's an
    IT consultant in Sacramento.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 15 12:35:45 2022
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
    whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
    were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
    involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
    covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
    instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
    rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
    teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
    fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are
    going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is
    famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
    *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
    people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too. Jan has a puckish sense of humor as
    well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
    on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 15 12:46:15 2022
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 16:31, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:
    <snip>
    I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
    be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
    country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
    history.


    Unfortunately you are correct. No such thing as a "normal prosperous
    country" in sight. It appears that even the younger generations, those
    who were brought up in post soviet times has not evolved much. The
    regularity they put some psychopath in the Kremlin with speaks for
    itself.

    What is puzzling is how people *outside* of the Russian environment sympathize with the Russian imperial ambitions and believe their
    propaganda nonsense.
    Part of the reason for such people to exist must be some plain
    inferiority complex, they see themselves as having no chance in the
    civilized world so they look for the saviour, being fine with one
    who would erase the civilization they cannot fit in the way they
    would like to.
    But may be there is more than that to it, to fall for the *utter
    nonsense* of the Russian propaganda takes some sort of a mental
    condition.

    I have a Russian history book whose preface begins, "It is not true that
    people get the government they deserve, and nowhere is it more
    grotesquely false than in Russia."

    After the local Slavs were taken over by Vikings, there was a long
    period of warlordism and foreign domination. After that, the Russians
    endured two centuries of Mongol rule, five centuries of serfdom that
    gradually became more and more crushing, a brief interlude of
    comparative freedom, then three quarters of a century of Bolshevism, two catastrophic wars, deliberately imposed starvation on a huge scale, the
    breakup of empire and the looting of the economy by oligarchs. Then
    they've had Putin.

    It's really no wonder that they're both crazy and pathologically suspicious--it's the only rational response. :(

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jul 15 12:46:52 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 11:31:05 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd >>> <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    Great book:

    https://www.amazon.com/Band-Played-Politics-Epidemic-20th-Anniversary/dp/0312374631/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1MY39G2KTGHC2&keywords=and+the+band+played+on&qid=1657825484&s=books&sprefix=and+the%2Cstripbooks%2C114&sr=1-1

    Randy wrote that as he was dying of AIDS.

    That was Fauci too.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri Jul 15 21:19:31 2022
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened
    whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>
    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we
    were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US
    involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed creating
    covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
    instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy
    rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
    teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
    fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are
    going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is
    famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
    technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
    *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
    people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor as
    well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
    on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
    And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 15 14:44:25 2022
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened >>>>>> whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>
    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we >>>>>>> were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US >>>>>>> involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
    creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
    instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more conspiracy >>>>> rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
    teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
    fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are
    going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is
    famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense. >>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
    technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
    *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
    people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor as
    well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
    on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
    And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons, <https://theeasternborder.lv>). One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin, which
    is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it. (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border is geopolitical
    insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin on my part. Once
    a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jul 15 12:13:12 2022
    fredag den 15. juli 2022 kl. 20.44.33 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened >>>>>> whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>
    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we >>>>>>> were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US >>>>>>> involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
    creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for
    instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy >>>>> rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try
    teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
    fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are >>>> going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is
    famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the >>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense. >>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, >>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake, >>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
    people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too. Jan has a puckish sense of humor as
    well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
    on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously. And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.
    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons, <https://theeasternborder.lv>). One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin, which
    is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it. (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border is geopolitical
    insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin on my part. Once
    a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Ukraine was no/is where near fulfilling the requirements to join NATO
    So Putin can't use that as an excuse

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Fri Jul 15 22:54:06 2022
    On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
    happened whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
    wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we >>>>>>>> were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no >>>>>>>> US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
    creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for >>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
    conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
    teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
    fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that
    are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland
    is famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the >>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
    nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, >>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake, >>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the
    people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor
    as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
    on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
    And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons, <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin, which
    is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.

    Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
    on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.

      (FWIW I think that
    enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border is geopolitical
    insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin on my part.  Once
    a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or
    be swallowed. It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
    it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets swallowed without giving a fight.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Edward Hernandez Smells Funny on Sat Jul 16 02:06:44 2022
    On 2022-07-15, Edward Hernandez Smells Funny <view@post.header> wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    Edward Hernandez Loves Porn wrote:

    My ophthalmologist does conventional surgery. He also regularly uses a
    laser beam on certain patient's eyes.

    One of multiple uses of a laser beam directed at the eyes of people is
    for cutting stitches after a Trabeculectomy. Somehow the laser cuts the
    stitch without damaging tissue on the way there. Doesn't even hurt.

    After cataract surgery, I got a "secondary cataract", namely clouding
    of the rear part of the lens capsule. My doc sawed a hole in the center
    part of the capsule with a YAG laser. That took a few minutes. He left
    some ragged edges that scattered light, so another guy trimmed that
    later.

    I also had my retina lasered to make scar tissue dots, to keep it welded
    to the back of my eyeball; my retinas tend to tear and detach, so that
    helps.

    I have to do the cataract surgery and retina repair/vitrectomy to my
    other eye soon. I'll ask them to spot weld that one too.

    So far, all this eye lasering works great and is quick and painless.

    Does anybody know how the laser beam energy is concentrated at a specific distance from the laser, so the beam doesn't damage tissue on the way to
    that point?

    they use a convex lens to concentrate the laser, in much the same way
    that one can be used to concentrate sunlight. So this only works through transparent tissue,

    --
    Jasen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 15 20:08:17 2022
    On Saturday, July 16, 2022 at 1:00:28 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 17:20:24 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote: >On 7/15/2022 16:31, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    What is puzzling is how people *outside* of the Russian environment >sympathize with the Russian imperial ambitions and believe their
    propaganda nonsense.

    In the times before WWII it was obvious that the USSR was run by
    murderous psychopaths, but there were lots of people in England and
    the US who idolized the workers paradise.

    Not all that many. H.G. wells wasn't too impressed by Stalin.

    Part of the reason for such people to exist must be some plain
    inferiority complex, they see themselves as having no chance in the >civilized world so they look for the saviour, being fine with one
    who would erase the civilization they cannot fit in the way they
    would like to.

    But may be there is more than that to it, to fall for the *utter
    nonsense* of the Russian propaganda takes some sort of a mental
    condition.

    Yes. When theory is confounded by reality, some people stick with
    theory.

    John Larkin can't process the facts that show that anthropogenic global warming is happening right now, and like's the theory that says that all these facts are being invented by a global conspiracy of climate scientists

    I made two good friends when I was in the USSR, and both came to live
    with me here for a year or so. Sergei, the native Russian, never
    learned English and didn't like America and went back to Moscow. Nick,
    a Ukranian, loved the US and stayed and imported his family. He's an
    IT consultant in Sacramento.

    Never learning English seems to have been the crucial difference. There may be something wrong with John Larkin's English, or perhaps just with the ideas he uses his English to express.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jul 15 19:50:59 2022
    On Friday, July 15, 2022 at 11:32:03 PM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 15 Jul 2022 14:27:07 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote: >On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    <snip>

    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems
    to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    I worked in the USSR for a month. It is a very weird place. It would
    be great if they could become a prosperous and boring european
    country, but I think they are too damaged by their language and
    history.

    The idea that Russian could be some kind of Babel-17 with built-in error generation is a trifle improbable.

    Every country is shaped - and damaged - by their history. If you haven't invested enough in manufacturing capacity, transport, public health service and education, your capacity to invest more in those areas is compromised.

    The US stopped investing enough a few years ago. Russia never did - Lenin did electrify the country in the 1920's, but that merely got them up from backwards to primitive, though the country was big enough that even a primitive manufacturing base was
    enough to let them out-produce, and eventually defeat the more advanced, but less numerous, Germans by 1945.

    Putin is trying to grow Russia's economy by taking over it's neighbours. Since this involves shelling the Ukraine back into the stone age before taking it over, this has to be a pretty silly idea.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Sun Jul 17 09:31:31 2022
    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    fredag den 15. juli 2022 kl. 20.44.33 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>>> On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened >>>>>>>> whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote: >>>>>>>
    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when we >>>>>>>>> were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no US >>>>>>>>> involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
    creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks. Dr. Fauci, for >>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak. A hundred more conspiracy >>>>>>> rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up. He does it all the time. Try
    teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
    fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that are >>>>>> going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff Holland is >>>>>> famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with the >>>>> Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that nonsense. >>>>> In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, >>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake, >>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the >>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems >>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too. Jan has a puckish sense of humor as >>>> well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and reasonable
    on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously. >>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.
    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
    <https://theeasternborder.lv>). One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin, which
    is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it. (FWIW I think that
    enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border is geopolitical
    insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin on my part. Once
    a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Ukraine was no/is where near fulfilling the requirements to join NATO
    So Putin can't use that as an excuse


    Finland?

    (Not even counting the coup the Obama swamp launched in Ukraine in 2014.)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jul 17 09:33:22 2022
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje
    wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
    happened whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>> wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when >>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no >>>>>>>>> US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
    creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for >>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
    conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try >>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their
    fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that
    are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
    Holland is famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with
    the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
    nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, >>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake, >>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the >>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems >>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to
    the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian
    and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor
    as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
    reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously. >>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
    <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
    which is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.

    Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
    on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.

      (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border
    is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin
    on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or
    be swallowed.

    You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)

    It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
    it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets swallowed without giving a fight.

    Yup. One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
    of the commies were overseas.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sun Jul 17 16:35:41 2022
    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:33:22 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in <9a675cd5-a5d3-fa92-6f3d-0fc0f4c3d538@electrooptical.net>:

    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
    happened whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>>> wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when >>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no >>>>>>>>>> US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
    creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for >>>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
    conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try >>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their >>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that >>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
    Holland is famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with >>>>>> the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
    nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, >>>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake, >>>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the >>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems >>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to >>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian >>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor >>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
    reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously. >>>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
    <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
    which is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.

    Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
    on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.

      (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border
    is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin
    on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or
    be swallowed.

    You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)

    It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
    it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets
    swallowed without giving a fight.

    Yup. One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
    of the commies were overseas.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Peaple like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
    googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

    ByeThen wants a common enemy to destract from his total failure
    You puppet, you dance,

    Simple Simon says:
    clap your hands ...
    sort of song comes to mind.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Sun Jul 17 20:33:29 2022
    On 7/17/2022 16:33, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
    happened whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>>> wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern
    example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when >>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no >>>>>>>>>> US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed
    creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, >>>>>>>> for instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
    conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try >>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their >>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that >>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
    Holland is famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize
    with the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
    nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an
    engineer,
    technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely
    believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a
    fake,
    *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the >>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems >>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to >>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian >>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor >>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
    reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken
    seriously.
    And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
    <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
    which is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.

    Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
    on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.

      (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border
    is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of
    Putin on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or
    be swallowed.

    You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)

    Living under a more direct threat certainly makes you more open-eyed
    about the world's vulnerabilities, of course.


    It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
    it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets
    swallowed without giving a fight.

    Yup.  One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
    of the commies were overseas.

    Today there are really no "commies", those who identify as such are
    just hypocrites. The real danger comes from the KGB mafia, which has
    spread its tentacles worldwide. The Chinese are following closely.

    I can sympathize with your lost feeling of having all (well, most)
    the truly criminal statesmen abroad but for me that time meant I had
    to live under them... (back then I "defected" because of this).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Sun Jul 17 18:25:52 2022
    On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 11:31:38 PM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    fredag den 15. juli 2022 kl. 20.44.33 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened >>>>>>>> whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    <snip>

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it. (FWIW I think that
    enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border is geopolitical
    insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin on my part. Once >> a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    With an expansionist creep like Putin in charge in Russia, places bordering on Russia would have to be insane to skip signing up with any defensive alliance that would have them. Putin is bound to see it as a provocation, but if he can't see a real
    provocation he'll invent one anyway, so inaction isn't a viable option.

    Ukraine was no/is where near fulfilling the requirements to join NATO
    So Putin can't use that as an excuse

    Finland?

    (Not even counting the coup the Obama swamp launched in Ukraine in 2014.)

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolution_of_Dignity

    Wikipedia does seems to think that that was largely home-grown. The US does seem to have had an opinion about it, but "launched" does sound like a Flyguy level right-wing fantasy.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Sun Jul 17 22:58:32 2022
    On Sunday, July 17, 2022 at 9:45:25 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    Peaple like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
    googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

    Yeah, we Americans figured McCarthy was excessive, long
    before Jan did. He has been an historic example for us to avoid.
    So was Stalin, even for his native Russia.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Mon Jul 18 08:34:17 2022
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:35:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:33:22 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in ><9a675cd5-a5d3-fa92-6f3d-0fc0f4c3d538@electrooptical.net>:

    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it
    happened whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern >>>>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when >>>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no >>>>>>>>>>> US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed >>>>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions.

    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for >>>>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more
    conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try >>>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their >>>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that >>>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
    Holland is famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with >>>>>>> the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that
    nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, >>>>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely >>>>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake, >>>>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the >>>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems >>>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to >>>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian >>>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor >>>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
    reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously. >>>>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
    <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
    which is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.

    Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
    on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.

      (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border >>>> is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin >>>> on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or >>> be swallowed.

    You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)

    It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
    it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets
    swallowed without giving a fight.

    Yup. One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
    of the commies were overseas.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Peaple like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
    googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

    But there were commies everywhere.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 18 16:08:59 2022
    On a sunny day (Mon, 18 Jul 2022 08:34:17 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <oavadhljphjvu85lqdddj7pk007tel6fh9@4ax.com>:

    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:35:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:33:22 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs >><pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in >><9a675cd5-a5d3-fa92-6f3d-0fc0f4c3d538@electrooptical.net>:

    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it >>>>>>>>>>> happened whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern >>>>>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when >>>>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no >>>>>>>>>>>> US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed >>>>>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions. >>>>>>>>>>
    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for >>>>>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more >>>>>>>>>> conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try >>>>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their >>>>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that >>>>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
    Holland is famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with >>>>>>>> the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that >>>>>>>> nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, >>>>>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely >>>>>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake, >>>>>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the >>>>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems >>>>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to >>>>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian >>>>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor >>>>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
    reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously. >>>>>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
    <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
    which is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.

    Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
    on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.

      (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border >>>>> is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin >>>>> on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or >>>> be swallowed.

    You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)

    It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
    it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets >>>> swallowed without giving a fight.

    Yup. One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
    of the commies were overseas.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Peaple like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
    googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

    But there were commies everywhere.

    Well, "beauty is in the beholders eye" (is the expression), so is evil I think. Are not all commies united in the Demoncrates party these days?
    Oh wait ...
    probably a bit more complicatiantiated than that
    There was an science topic in sci.daily.com about the making an enemy and that making
    people more happy or something (header all the way down that page)
    I personally believe more in cooperation, make peace with Russia, China, Iran, better for business, kills less people, sentence war criminals / mass murderers like Dr Faulty
    and ByeThen to: well what have you these days...
    Is the last chance for the US, drop the support for that Military Industrial Complex and it political salesmen.
    Putin is just selling gas US tries to destroy the competition by selling stuff they got using fracking
    a system that poisons their own people,
    Bit of a big bully US is... it keeps asking for something, was reading Iran now enriched enough plutonium
    to make a bomb...
    US people will have to rise up against that US weapon industry, you are outnumbered many times.
    US mafia

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 18 14:50:22 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:35:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:33:22 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
    <9a675cd5-a5d3-fa92-6f3d-0fc0f4c3d538@electrooptical.net>:

    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it >>>>>>>>>>> happened whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern >>>>>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when >>>>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no >>>>>>>>>>>> US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed >>>>>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions. >>>>>>>>>>
    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for
    instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more >>>>>>>>>> conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try
    teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their >>>>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that >>>>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff
    Holland is famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with >>>>>>>> the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that >>>>>>>> nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer, >>>>>>>> technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely >>>>>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake, >>>>>>>> *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the >>>>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems >>>>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to >>>>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian >>>>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor >>>>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
    reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously. >>>>>> And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
    <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin,
    which is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.

    Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts
    on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.

      (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border >>>>> is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin >>>>> on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or >>>> be swallowed.

    You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)

    It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
    it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets >>>> swallowed without giving a fight.

    Yup. One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most
    of the commies were overseas.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Peaple like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
    googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

    But there were commies everywhere.

    Not on the present scale.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Mon Jul 18 12:14:20 2022
    On Mon, 18 Jul 2022 14:50:22 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:35:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:33:22 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote in
    <9a675cd5-a5d3-fa92-6f3d-0fc0f4c3d538@electrooptical.net>:

    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>>>> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it >>>>>>>>>>>> happened whit3rd
    <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in
    <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje >>>>>>>>>>>>> wrote:

    Try google for US regime change since WW2

    Nothing in such a list really compares with, for a modern >>>>>>>>>>>>> example, the ongoing invasion in Ukraine. Mostly, it was when >>>>>>>>>>>>> we were all infants.
    Biggest regime change during that period, was Mao in China; no >>>>>>>>>>>>> US involvement
    to speak of.

    And then US created HIV, killed many many people,

    That fails any kind of reality check.

    and recently Dr Faulty (or whatever his name was) financed >>>>>>>>>>>> creating covid and that backfired too and killed millions. >>>>>>>>>>>
    ... which also fails a number of reality checks.   Dr. Fauci, for >>>>>>>>>>> instance, was clearly at work on the wrong
    continent to connect with the outbreak.   A hundred more >>>>>>>>>>> conspiracy rumors can be found, or created,
    but ought not command our respect either.

    RationalWiki calls this sort of thing a Gish Gallop.
    <https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Gish_Gallop>


    Guys, Jan is just winding you up.  He does it all the time.  Try >>>>>>>>>> teasing him back about cheese, or mud, or little boys with their >>>>>>>>>> fingers in dikes, or, wrongheaded environmental regulations that >>>>>>>>>> are going to cause starvation overseas--you know, the stuff >>>>>>>>>> Holland is famous for. ;)


    I don't think he is. I know other people who follow/sympathize with >>>>>>>>> the
    Russian media bullshit and they all seriously believe all that >>>>>>>>> nonsense.
    In fact you won't believe how far it goes, I know a guy - an engineer,
    technical support on the nuclear power plant here - who genuinely >>>>>>>>> believes that and more - e.g. that the moon landings were just a fake,
    *all* sorts of utter nonsense. And he is far from alone, many of the >>>>>>>>> people in his working environment are no better.
    I know how ludicrous this all sounds to a sane person but there seems >>>>>>>>> to be some sort of mental illness making plenty of people prone to >>>>>>>>> the ridiculous Russian propaganda (if you could understand Russian >>>>>>>>> and listened to it for 5 minutes the effect on you would be
    literally jaw dropping, yet plenty of people fall for it).

    He does it about other stuff too.  Jan has a puckish sense of humor >>>>>>>> as well as many strong opinions, and posts enough sane and
    reasonable on-topic stuff that he gets taken seriously.


    I know he does it and I agree his on topic posts can be taken seriously.
    And I stand by my post about his pro-Russian nonsense.

    I follow a Latvian podcaster (Kristaps Andrejsons,
    <https://theeasternborder.lv>).  One of his regular segments is
    translating the amusing pro-Russian propaganda of one Igor Girkin, >>>>>> which is very much along the lines you mention.

    I'm just not at all sure Jan actually believes it.

    Well I hope you are right. But I did not sense any irony in his posts >>>>> on that topic, may be I just don't know him well enough.

      (FWIW I think that enlarging NATO all the way up to Russia's border >>>>>> is geopolitical insanity, but not because of any good opinion of Putin >>>>>> on my part.  Once a KGB colonel, always a KGB colonel.)

    Insanity or not, on this world we all live with two options - swallow or >>>>> be swallowed.

    You've lived in the Balkans too long. ;)

    It would be a shame if our civilization is lost because
    it was swallowed by the barbarians; it will be triple shame if it gets >>>>> swallowed without giving a fight.

    Yup. One of the things I really miss about the Cold War was that most >>>> of the commies were overseas.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Peaple like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
    googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

    But there were commies everywhere.

    Not on the present scale.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Oh. Good point.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jul 18 18:41:36 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 1:34:29 AM UTC+10, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:35:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:33:22 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs ><pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote in <9a675cd5-a5d3-fa92...@electrooptical.net>:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    <snip>

    People like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US, googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

    But there were commies everywhere.

    John Larkin has some very silly ideas. This is just one them.

    The US Communist Party membership peaked at 75,000 people in 1940-41. That's not a lot in a population of about 130 million. McCarthy had a famous list of 205 communists who he imagined to be working in the State Department. It never got tested against
    reality.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Mon Jul 18 18:50:30 2022
    On Tuesday, July 19, 2022 at 4:50:29 AM UTC+10, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 17 Jul 2022 16:35:41 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Sun, 17 Jul 2022 09:33:22 -0400) it happened Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamM...@electrooptical.net> wrote in <9a675cd5-a5d3-fa92...@electrooptical.net>:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 21:44, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/15/2022 19:35, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 7/14/2022 19:22, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Wednesday, July 13, 2022 at 7:56:21 AM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 13 Jul 2022 01:00:04 -0700 (PDT)) it happened whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> wrote in <62706c9e-b801-47da...@googlegroups.com>:
    On Tuesday, July 12, 2022 at 11:21:07 PM UTC-7, Jan Panteltje wrote:

    <snip>

    People like McCarthy did see commies everywhere in the US,
    googgle wikipedia mccarthysism

    But there were commies everywhere.

    Not on the present scale.

    People like Phil Hobbs and John Larkin seem to think that everybody more left wing than they are is a communist.

    They probably think that Noam Chomsky is a communist - when he is actually an anarcho-syndicalist, which is the group that threw Karl Marx out of the international socialist movement back in 1871 because they (correctly) saw his enthusiasm for the
    leading role of the (what became the communist) party as undemocratic and likely to lead to tyranny.

    It's one of those convenient simplifications that makes life a lot easier, but does tend to lead you into destructive errors.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From Don@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Tue Jul 19 16:58:56 2022
    Anthony William Sloman wrote:

    <snip>

    They probably think that Noam Chomsky is a communist - when he is actually
    an anarcho-syndicalist, which is the group that threw Karl Marx out of the international socialist movement back in 1871 because they (correctly) saw his enthusiasm for the leading role of the (what became the communist) party as undemocratic and likely to lead to tyranny.

    Perhaps some people feel Chomsky says things better left unsaid? Out of
    sight, out of mind???

    Welcome to a Science-Fiction Planet

    How George Orwell's Doublethink Became the Way of the World:
    David Barsamian interviews Noam Chomsky

    Barsamian: I've got a little puzzle for you. It's in two parts.
    Russia's military is inept and incompetent. Its soldiers have very
    low morale and are poorly led. Its economy ranks with Italy's and
    Spain's. That's one part. The other part is Russia is a military
    colossus that threatens to overwhelm us. So, we need more weapons.
    Let's expand NATO. How do you reconcile those two contradictory
    thoughts?

    Chomsky: Those two thoughts are standard in the entire West. I just
    had a long interview in Sweden about their plans to join NATO. I
    pointed out that Swedish leaders have two contradictory ideas, the
    two you mentioned. One, gloating over the fact that Russia has proven
    itself to be a paper tiger that can't conquer cities a couple of
    miles from its border defended by a mostly citizens' army. So,
    they're completely militarily incompetent. The other thought is:
    they're poised to conquer the West and destroy us.

    George Orwell had a name for that. He called it doublethink, the
    capacity to have two contradictory ideas in your mind and believe
    both of them. Orwell mistakenly thought that was something you could
    only have in the ultra-totalitarian state he was satirizing in 1984.
    He was wrong. You can have it in free democratic societies. We're
    seeing a dramatic example of it right now. Incidentally, this is not
    the first time.

    Danke,

    --
    Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
    There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
    She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

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