• power supply 1-wire remote sense

    From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 17 09:45:27 2022
    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri Jun 17 12:39:59 2022
    On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1


    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Walliker on Fri Jun 17 13:01:28 2022
    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
    On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

    Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
    wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
    has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
    or heater, or some other milliseconds-don't-matter system?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to jrwalliker@gmail.com on Fri Jun 17 13:29:50 2022
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 12:39:59 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1


    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

    John

    Similar concept, an assumption of equal wire resistances.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Robertson@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Jun 17 15:05:08 2022
    On 2022/06/17 2:39 p.m., John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
    On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

    Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
    wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
    has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
    or heater, or some other milliseconds-don't-matter system?

    It's a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
    remote sense.

    Here's the opposite extreme of remote sense:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zd779cob33zyg/P941_Rem_Sense_4.jpg?raw=1

    That has some nice features.



    I remember the early 80s when Atari used to use sense lines to monitor
    the power supply output at the game board.

    Many smoked card edge connectors later they gave up on the sense lines.
    What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
    deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
    sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
    edge connectors and the plugs.

    We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
    designed in the 70s and 80s.

    I assume your design allows for this - I was just doing some reminiscing...

    John :-#)#

    --
    (Please post followups or tech inquiries to the USENET newsgroup)
    John's Jukes Ltd.
    #7 - 3979 Marine Way, Burnaby, BC, Canada V5J 5E3
    (604)872-5757 (Pinballs, Jukes, Video Games)
    www.flippers.com
    "Old pinballers never die, they just flip out."

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 17 14:39:53 2022
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
    On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

    Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
    wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
    has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
    or heater, or some other milliseconds-don't-matter system?

    It's a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
    remote sense.

    Here's the opposite extreme of remote sense:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zd779cob33zyg/P941_Rem_Sense_4.jpg?raw=1

    That has some nice features.


    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Fri Jun 17 15:24:02 2022
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:05:08 -0700, John Robertson <spam@flippers.com>
    wrote:

    On 2022/06/17 2:39 p.m., John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
    On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

    Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
    wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
    has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
    or heater, or some other milliseconds-don't-matter system?

    It's a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
    remote sense.

    Here's the opposite extreme of remote sense:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zd779cob33zyg/P941_Rem_Sense_4.jpg?raw=1

    That has some nice features.



    I remember the early 80s when Atari used to use sense lines to monitor
    the power supply output at the game board.

    Many smoked card edge connectors later they gave up on the sense lines.
    What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
    deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
    sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
    edge connectors and the plugs.

    We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
    designed in the 70s and 80s.

    I assume your design allows for this - I was just doing some reminiscing...

    John :-#)#

    Yes, rs can be connected wrong and make a power supply go nuts. The
    dual ADC allows us to compare the output and the rs feedback and see
    if they make sense.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Sat Jun 18 00:27:03 2022
    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 3:24:13 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:05:08 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com> wrote:
    On 2022/06/17 2:39 p.m., John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
    On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

    Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
    wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
    has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
    or heater, or some other milliseconds-don't-matter system?

    It's a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
    remote sense.

    What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards >deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the >sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card >edge connectors and the plugs.

    We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
    designed in the 70s and 80s.

    Yes, rs can be connected wrong and make a power supply go nuts. The
    dual ADC allows us to compare the output and the rs feedback and see
    if they make sense.

    I'd prefer fewer ADCs (thinking of these as feedback elements into an op amp-style
    regulator) because of their delays. Ideally, just program a reference, and apply gain to that, with suitable filter caps on the output. MHz power currents
    come from the capacitors, kHz power currents come from the amplifier, and
    a single ADC can alternate reading the reference and the output; using three ADCs seems overcomplex. If you just integrate DC errors (P-I-D style)
    using the digital stuff, the delay isn't an issue.

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
    not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate
    with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
    that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
    the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to John Robertson on Sat Jun 18 08:37:35 2022
    John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

    Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or
    mismatch in current-delivery wire resistance does it in.
    Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and has
    better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this
    a motor control, or heater, or some other milliseconds-don't-matter
    system?

    It's a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
    remote sense.

    Here's the opposite extreme of remote sense:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zd779cob33zyg/P941_Rem_Sense_4.jpg?raw=1

    That has some nice features.

    I remember the early 80s when Atari used to use sense lines to monitor
    the power supply output at the game board.

    Many smoked card edge connectors later they gave up on the sense lines.
    What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
    deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
    sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
    edge connectors and the plugs.

    We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
    designed in the 70s and 80s.

    I assume your design allows for this - I was just doing some
    reminiscing...

    Not electronics...

    As a kid, I was gifted $60 and spent most of it on pinball. Maybe a nickel
    per game. As an adult, played pinball after work, my favorite being
    Firepower when quick action flippers came along. Then noticed video games
    on the other side of the arcade... After sinking maybe $50 into Asteroids, played it for hours on one quarter. Then Missile Command. Coincidently,
    met an electronics engineer (I had played once in a high school chess tournament) who recommended separating the fire between the left and the
    right screen, left button half way then right button the other half way.
    Then could play Missile Command for an hour or two on one quarter. Little
    after that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to John Doe on Sat Jun 18 12:53:36 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Off topic troll...

    --
    John Doe <always.look@message.header> wrote:

    Path: not-for-mail
    From: John Doe <always.look@message.header>
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Subject: Re: power supply 1-wire remote sense
    Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 08:37:35 -0000 (UTC)
    Organization: A noiseless patient Spider
    Lines: 56
    Message-ID: <t8k2sf$nna$1@dont-email.me>
    References: <jqbpahdaj72a4ar3sfban3hgmulttrbfi3@4ax.com> <a8f77647-1b36-4621-87df-264512a2cc27n@googlegroups.com> <fee7c65c-1e2e-4a44-b7be-2f06c609715bn@googlegroups.com> <53ppah1es0nl6tsgblhnjs8f96jvadcgbt@4ax.com> <P7qdnSQX-_EIZzH_nZ2dnUU7-ffNnZ2d@
    giganews.com>
    Injection-Date: Sat, 18 Jun 2022 08:37:35 -0000 (UTC)
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    User-Agent: Xnews/2006.08.05
    Cancel-Lock: sha1:r7KGig83sueiMQRqx0EM/rEa9N4=
    X-Received-Bytes: 3408

    John Robertson <spam@flippers.com> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

    Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or
    mismatch in current-delivery wire resistance does it in.
    Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and has
    better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this
    a motor control, or heater, or some other milliseconds-don't-matter
    system?

    It's a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
    remote sense.

    Here's the opposite extreme of remote sense:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/d3zd779cob33zyg/P941_Rem_Sense_4.jpg?raw=1

    That has some nice features.

    I remember the early 80s when Atari used to use sense lines to monitor
    the power supply output at the game board.

    Many smoked card edge connectors later they gave up on the sense lines. What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card edge connectors and the plugs.

    We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
    designed in the 70s and 80s.

    I assume your design allows for this - I was just doing some
    reminiscing...

    Not electronics...

    As a kid, I was gifted $60 and spent most of it on pinball. Maybe a nickel per game. As an adult, played pinball after work, my favorite being
    Firepower when quick action flippers came along. Then noticed video games
    on the other side of the arcade... After sinking maybe $50 into Asteroids, played it for hours on one quarter. Then Missile Command. Coincidently,
    met an electronics engineer (I had played once in a high school chess tournament) who recommended separating the fire between the left and the right screen, left button half way then right button the other half way.
    Then could play Missile Command for an hour or two on one quarter. Little after that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 18 13:04:27 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me> (http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022
    12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) John Dope stated:

    Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
    NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope's post ratio
    to USENET (**) has been 61.2% of its posts contributing "nothing except insults" to USENET.

    ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
    least 1898 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
    989 have been John Dope "troll format" postings.

    The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
    <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has continued to post incorrectly
    formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Sat, 18 Jun 2022 12:53:36 GMT in message-id <kVjrK.298018$3%%8.92995@usenetxs.com>).

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that John Dope does not even follow
    the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    QIMDPZ0HUYw9

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 18 06:29:37 2022
    On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 00:27:03 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 3:24:13 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:05:08 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com>
    wrote:
    On 2022/06/17 2:39 p.m., John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
    On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection.

    Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
    wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
    has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
    or heater, or some other milliseconds-don't-matter system?

    It's a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
    remote sense.

    What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards
    deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the
    sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card
    edge connectors and the plugs.

    We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
    designed in the 70s and 80s.

    Yes, rs can be connected wrong and make a power supply go nuts. The
    dual ADC allows us to compare the output and the rs feedback and see
    if they make sense.

    I'd prefer fewer ADCs (thinking of these as feedback elements into an op amp-style
    regulator) because of their delays. Ideally, just program a reference, and >apply gain to that, with suitable filter caps on the output. MHz power currents
    come from the capacitors, kHz power currents come from the amplifier, and
    a single ADC can alternate reading the reference and the output; using three >ADCs seems overcomplex. If you just integrate DC errors (P-I-D style)
    using the digital stuff, the delay isn't an issue.

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
    not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate >with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, >that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
    the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    The power supply dynamics (voltage regulation, current limiting,
    output impedance, slew rates) will be done in an FPGA. The FPGA reads
    ADCs and generates PWM into the output fets.

    The ADCs are ADUM7703, an isolated delta-sigma thing. It makes
    essentially a 1-wire random noisy duty cycle whose average value tells
    the input voltage. It needs to be decimated, digitally lowpass
    filtered, in the FPGA, and we have choices. We can get 160 KHz
    bandwidth at 15 bits effective a/d resolution, or 20 bits at about 50
    KHz, both overkill for a power supply. They are $6 each, which isn't a
    big deal here.

    Three ADCs isn't complex, it's actually simple.

    If the customer doesn't elect to enable remote sense, they get a free
    high-res DVM. Either way they can verify the actual voltage at the
    load. They do high-value tests (like blowing blades off jet engines to
    test containment) and want to be sure everything works.

    I've noticed that some engineers will go to great lengths, and add a
    lot of complexity, to save trivial parts cost. Like building a fancy charge-pump power supply just because they can, instead of buying a $3
    dc/dc converter, to cite one fictitious example.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to dtgamer99@gmail.com on Sat Jun 18 06:33:01 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:04:27 GMT, Edward Hernandez
    <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

    In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me> >(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022 >12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) John Dope stated:

    Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
    NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope's post ratio
    to USENET (**) has been 61.2% of its posts contributing "nothing except >insults" to USENET.

    ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
    least 1898 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
    989 have been John Dope "troll format" postings.

    The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id ><sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id ><sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has continued to post incorrectly
    formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Sat, 18 Jun 2022 12:53:36 GMT in message-id ><kVjrK.298018$3%%8.92995@usenetxs.com>).

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that John Dope does not even follow
    the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    QIMDPZ0HUYw9

    You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.

    Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
    you can't design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sat Jun 18 13:53:34 2022
    Here, John Larkin appears to be confusing me with the forger of my ID.

    The fact nym-shifting trolls can so easily dupe regular USENET posters is
    one reason I started pointing out header information.

    Some people are still not cognizant enough to get it...



    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:04:27 GMT, Edward Hernandez
    <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

    In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me> >>(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022 >>12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) John Dope stated:

    Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
    NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope's post ratio
    to USENET (**) has been 61.2% of its posts contributing "nothing except >>insults" to USENET.

    ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
    least 1898 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
    989 have been John Dope "troll format" postings.

    The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id >><sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id >><sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has continued to post incorrectly
    formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on >>Sat, 18 Jun 2022 12:53:36 GMT in message-id >><kVjrK.298018$3%%8.92995@usenetxs.com>).

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that John Dope does not even follow
    the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    QIMDPZ0HUYw9

    You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.

    Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
    you can't design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Sat Jun 18 14:33:18 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    John Dope stated the following in message-id
    <svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me>
    (http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=164904625100) posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022
    08:01:09 -0000 (UTC):

    Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
    except insults to this group.

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope's post ratio
    to USENET (**) has been 61.2% of its posts contributing "nothing except insults" to USENET.

    ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
    least 1906 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
    994 have been John Dope "troll format" postings.

    The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
    <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has itself posted yet another
    incorrectly formatted USENET posting on Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:53:54 -0000
    (UTC) in message-id <t8kldh$cug$2@dont-email.me>.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that John Dope does not even follow
    the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    1uwkxZECbDJh

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jun 19 01:51:55 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:04:27 GMT, Edward Hernandez
    <dtgamer99@gmail.com> wrote:

    Yet

    You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.

    Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
    you can't design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.

    There is a distinct possibility "Edward Hernandez" would've made it into
    this group (coming from the electronics repair group where it was jilted)
    even if not for me, similar to how "Bertrand Sindri" appeared around the
    same timeframe (also coming from the electronics repair group) for no
    apparent reason.

    Obviously I have nothing to do with that troll now flagging what it sees
    as off-topic, while copying my ID to do so.

    Some regulars here like Bozo and Ricksy have encouraged it, and it's
    gotten worse. The trolling "Edward Hernandez" does here most certainly
    isn't my fault.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Sun Jun 19 04:52:12 2022
    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 3:52:02 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:04:27 GMT, Edward Hernandez
    <dtga...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Yet
    You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.

    Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
    you can't design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.
    There is a distinct possibility "Edward Hernandez" would've made it into this group (coming from the electronics repair group where it was jilted) even if not for me, similar to how "Bertrand Sindri" appeared around the same timeframe (also coming from the electronics repair group) for no apparent reason.

    Obviously I have nothing to do with that troll now flagging what it sees
    as off-topic, while copying my ID to do so.

    Some regulars here like Bozo and Ricksy have encouraged it, and it's
    gotten worse. The trolling "Edward Hernandez" does here most certainly
    isn't my fault.

    He wouldn't do it if John Doe weren't posting here. Since John Doe posts absolutely nothing of any value at all, we'd all be very grateful if he went away, along with all the people who feel the need to point out that he is an obnoxious half-wit without
    having anything else to offer.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Three Jeeps@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun Jun 19 08:27:21 2022
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 9:33:15 AM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:04:27 GMT, Edward Hernandez
    <dtga...@gmail.com> wrote:

    In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3...@dont-email.me> >(http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022 >12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) John Dope stated:

    Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
    NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope's post ratio
    to USENET (**) has been 61.2% of its posts contributing "nothing except >insults" to USENET.

    ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
    least 1898 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
    989 have been John Dope "troll format" postings.

    The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id ><sdhn7c$pkp$4...@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id ><sg3kr7$qt5$1...@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has continued to post incorrectly
    formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on >Sat, 18 Jun 2022 12:53:36 GMT in message-id ><kVjrK.298018$3%%8.9...@usenetxs.com>).

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that John Dope does not even follow
    the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    QIMDPZ0HUYw9
    You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.

    Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
    you can't design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.
    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    +1, and I'd add the need for constant attention seeking. Severe mental disorder.
    J

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Three Jeeps on Sun Jun 19 17:05:44 2022
    Three Jeeps <jjhudak4@gmail.com> wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Edward Hernandez <dtga...@gmail.com> wrote:

    <trolling>

    You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.

    This time... Not just this group, but all of USENET!

    Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course
    you can't design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.

    +1, and I'd add the need for constant attention seeking. Severe mental disorder.

    It's always something or another.

    There is a distinct possibility "Edward Hernandez" would've made it into
    this group (coming from the electronics repair group where it was jilted)
    even if not for me, similar to how "Bertrand Sindri" appeared around the
    same timeframe (also coming from the electronics repair group) for no
    apparent reason.

    I have obviously nothing to do with that troll now flagging what it sees
    as off-topic (while copying my ID to do so). Some regulars here like Bozo
    and Ricksy have encouraged it, and it's gotten worse.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Sun Jun 19 16:57:02 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    No point in discussing anything with Bill "Bozo" Sloman, the Australian
    troll. Bozo is an incessant liar who cannot be reasoned with. Its fiction
    never ends.

    "the user has posted under the same name in other places, so not
    nym-shifting" (Bozo sucks at logic)

    "the Mueller investigation was about Trump only because Trump made it so"
    (Bozo being Bozo)

    "the concepts "male" and "female" are essentially social constructions"
    (Bozo is a textbook cannibal leftist)

    --
    Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    X-Received: by 2002:adf:d1ea:0:b0:210:3e22:51b0 with SMTP id g10-20020adfd1ea000000b002103e2251b0mr17705689wrd.72.1655639533863; Sun, 19 Jun 2022 04:52:13 -0700 (PDT)
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    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!news.uzoreto.com!feeder1.cambriumusenet.nl!feed.tweak.nl!209.85.128.87.MISMATCH!news-out.google.com!nntp.google.com!postnews.google.com!google-groups.googlegroups.com!not-for-mail
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 04:52:12 -0700 (PDT)
    In-Reply-To: <t8lvfr$f00$20@dont-email.me>
    Injection-Info: google-groups.googlegroups.com; posting-host=192.87.79.65; posting-account=SJ46pgoAAABuUDuHc5uDiXN30ATE-zi-
    NNTP-Posting-Host: 192.87.79.65
    References: <jqbpahdaj72a4ar3sfban3hgmulttrbfi3@4ax.com> <a8f77647-1b36-4621-87df-264512a2cc27n@googlegroups.com> <fee7c65c-1e2e-4a44-b7be-2f06c609715bn@googlegroups.com> <53ppah1es0nl6tsgblhnjs8f96jvadcgbt@4ax.com> <P7qdnSQX-_EIZzH_nZ2dnUU7-ffNnZ2d@
    giganews.com> <t8k2sf$nna$1@dont-email.me> <kVjrK.298018$3%%8.92995@usenetxs.com> <v3krK.171478$b_.162195@usenetxs.com> <mrkrahlqe1cq9o2sb4g2gbj0497s1gg9bo@4ax.com> <t8lvfr$f00$20@dont-email.me>
    User-Agent: G2/1.0
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Message-ID: <799ec9e2-6a16-46b7-8e31-13cc596c01b5n@googlegroups.com>
    Subject: Re: power supply 1-wire remote sense
    From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    Injection-Date: Sun, 19 Jun 2022 11:52:13 +0000
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:672029

    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 3:52:02 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    On Sat, 18 Jun 2022 13:04:27 GMT, Edward Hernandez
    <dtga...@gmail.com> wrote:
    Yet
    You idiots have mostly ruined usenet with your endless hen-clucking.

    Your are either bots, or have astounding boredom tolerance. Of course

    you can't design electronics; your personalities are all wrong.
    There is a distinct possibility "Edward Hernandez" would've made it into

    this group (coming from the electronics repair group where it was jilted)

    even if not for me, similar to how "Bertrand Sindri" appeared around the

    same timeframe (also coming from the electronics repair group) for no
    apparent reason.

    Obviously I have nothing to do with that troll now flagging what it sees

    as off-topic, while copying my ID to do so.

    Some regulars here like Bozo and Ricksy have encouraged it, and it's
    gotten worse. The trolling "Edward Hernandez" does here most certainly
    isn't my fault.

    He wouldn't do it if John Doe weren't posting here. Since John Doe posts absolutely nothing of any value at all, we'd all be very grateful if he went away, along with all the people who feel the need to point out that he is an obnoxious half-wit
    without having anything else to offer.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 19 17:27:00 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me> (http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022
    12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe stated:

    Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
    NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe's post ratio
    to USENET (**) has been 61.8% of its posts contributing "nothing except insults" to USENET.

    ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) Troll Doe has posted at
    least 1954 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
    1035 have been Troll Doe "troll format" postings.

    The John Dope troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Dope troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Dope troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:57:02 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t8nkgt$5j9$5@dont-email.me>).

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that John Doe does not even follow
    the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    6gGXGD9dZRVQ

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 19 11:26:52 2022
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 3:24:13 PM UTC-7, John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 15:05:08 -0700, John Robertson <sp...@flippers.com> wrote:
    On 2022/06/17 2:39 p.m., John Larkin wrote:
    On Fri, 17 Jun 2022 13:01:28 -0700 (PDT), whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com>
    wrote:

    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 12:40:06 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote: >>>> On Friday, 17 June 2022 at 17:45:41 UTC+1, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1 >>>>>
    That looks just like a three-wire resistance thermometer connection. >>>
    Yep, and the downside is, any contact resistance in connectors or mismatch in current-delivery
    wire resistance does it in. Point-of-load regulation is cheaper (wire has real cost) and
    has better latency and bandwidth than digitizing-at-the-source. Is this a motor control,
    or heater, or some other milliseconds-don't-matter system?

    It's a programmable DC power supply, and the customer has requested
    remote sense.
    What was happening was the ground connections to the game boards >deteriorated at the same rate as the +DC ones and this confused the >sense(s) so they would allow more current to flow - and toasted the card >edge connectors and the plugs.

    We had a lot of problems with ground/common connections on games
    designed in the 70s and 80s.
    Yes, rs can be connected wrong and make a power supply go nuts. The
    dual ADC allows us to compare the output and the rs feedback and see
    if they make sense.
    I'd prefer fewer ADCs (thinking of these as feedback elements into an op amp-style
    regulator) because of their delays. Ideally, just program a reference, and apply gain to that, with suitable filter caps on the output. MHz power currents
    come from the capacitors, kHz power currents come from the amplifier, and
    a single ADC can alternate reading the reference and the output; using three ADCs seems overcomplex. If you just integrate DC errors (P-I-D style)
    using the digital stuff, the delay isn't an issue.

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
    not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
    that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
    the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Ricky on Sun Jun 19 13:57:38 2022
    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
    not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
    the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?

    The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
    nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's
    not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

    I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
    and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 19 15:11:36 2022
    On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate
    with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
    The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
    nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's
    not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

    I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
    and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

    A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
    to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if only I could buy them!
    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to jrwalliker@gmail.com on Sun Jun 19 16:27:43 2022
    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually >> > > not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate
    with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, >> > > that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get >> > > the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
    The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
    nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's
    not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

    I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
    and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

    A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
    to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
    only I could buy them!
    John

    It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
    stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

    The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

    Mouser is expecting some in 2023!



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun Jun 19 21:22:48 2022
    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker ><jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually >>> > > not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate
    with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, >>> > > that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get >>> > > the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
    The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
    nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's
    not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

    I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling, >>> and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

    A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
    to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
    only I could buy them!
    John

    It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
    stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

    The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

    Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

    I guess I'll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
    isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
    but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

    Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jun 20 05:19:38 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    Ricky wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would
    usually not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do
    something appropriate with a protective relay, circuit breaker,
    fuse... Undervoltage though, that's where a sense wire solution
    shines (take a millisecond, but get the value RIGHT before a guy
    with a meter sees the problem).

    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control
    it??? A RELAY?

    The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
    nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current
    pulse. It's not lightning protection here, just craziness of the
    switching logic to be considered.

    I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in
    sampling, and decision logic, and switch period, may not be
    negligible.

    A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem to
    have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a
    few if only I could buy them!

    It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data >>stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

    The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

    Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

    I guess I'll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly isolated
    ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt, but there
    are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

    Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

    It might get worse still. Prolonging the Russian-Ukrainian conflict will
    curb Russian and Ukrainian exports of noble gasses like neon, krypton, and xenon, all key ingredients in the manufacturing of semiconductor chips. If
    I read it correctly, chips manufactured in China might be less affected
    than others.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Mon Jun 20 06:48:10 2022
    On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 7:19:44 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    Ricky wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:

    <snip>

    It might get worse still. Prolonging the Russian-Ukrainian conflict will curb Russian and Ukrainian exports of noble gasses like neon, krypton, and xenon, all key ingredients in the manufacturing of semiconductor chips. If
    I read it correctly, chips manufactured in China might be less affected
    than others.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas

    "Neon, argon, krypton, and xenon are obtained from air in an air separation unit using the methods of liquefaction of gases and fractional distillation."

    Everybody liquifies air and sells liquid nitrogen. Elaborating the the plant a bit to pull out the noble gases isn't rocket science. Russia and the Ukraine may have tooled up for cheap mass production, but replacing them isn't going to be a big deal. It
    would probably just mean taking old kit out of mothball storage.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jun 20 14:13:16 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually >>>>>> not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate
    with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, >>>>>> that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get >>>>>> the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
    The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its
    nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's
    not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

    I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling, >>>> and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

    A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
    to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
    only I could buy them!
    John

    It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
    stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

    The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

    Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

    I guess I'll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
    isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
    but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

    That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable
    to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement.

    Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

    We're exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get.
    We're also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards
    because some asshole bought up the world's supply of ADA4899s in the
    sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish.

    Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to
    normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn't like
    the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe.)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Mon Jun 20 12:06:39 2022
    On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 14:13:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually >>>>>>> not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate
    with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, >>>>>>> that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get >>>>>>> the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
    The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its >>>>> nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's
    not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

    I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling, >>>>> and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

    A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
    to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
    only I could buy them!
    John

    It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
    stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

    The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

    Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

    I guess I'll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
    isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
    but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

    That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable
    to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement.

    Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

    We're exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get.
    We're also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards
    because some asshole bought up the world's supply of ADA4899s in the
    sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish.

    Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to >normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn't like
    the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe.)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    M**** scrooed us badly, so we had to make 3000 of this:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzvv09ymjxwpdtj/Break2.jpg?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/50b1af02vcoqjgk/OnBoard.jpg?raw=1


    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Piotr Wyderski@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon Jun 20 21:33:37 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1

    Another trick worth mentioning is to use a 595 with two sufficiently
    different tau RC integrators at the inputs. With the built-in Schmitt
    triggers these form monostable multivibrators and allow piggy-backing of
    the strobe signals on the data line. One can further steal the idea from
    the Dallas 1-wire chips and by adding a diode merge the VDD and the data
    line. By PWMing the VDD it becomes a truly one-way 1-wire digital link.
    Now, if the current consumption of the receiver is known, the receiver
    can connect (or not) a digitally controlled load, say 3x the current consumption for easy discrimination. The transmitter now sees I_load or 3xI-load and a receiver -> transmitter channel is formed with the same
    VDD line. You end up with a bidirectional 1-wire link using jellybean
    parts at the receiver end. The complexity is in the transmitter.

    Best regards, Piotr

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Mon Jun 20 16:01:11 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 14:13:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
    not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate
    with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though, >>>>>>>> that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get >>>>>>>> the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
    The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its >>>>>> nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's
    not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

    I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
    and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

    A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
    to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
    only I could buy them!
    John

    It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data
    stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

    The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

    Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

    I guess I'll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
    isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
    but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

    That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable
    to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement.

    Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

    We're exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get.
    We're also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards
    because some asshole bought up the world's supply of ADA4899s in the
    sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish.

    Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to
    normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn't like
    the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe.)


    M**** scrooed us badly, so we had to make 3000 of this:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzvv09ymjxwpdtj/Break2.jpg?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/50b1af02vcoqjgk/OnBoard.jpg?raw=1


    Yup, that's the plan for us too.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to Piotr Wyderski on Mon Jun 20 14:28:01 2022
    On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 20:33:55 UTC+1, Piotr Wyderski wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    This ought to work and has some real virtues.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/s3swzhh7b0kd8f9/1-wire_sense.jpg?raw=1
    Another trick worth mentioning is to use a 595 with two sufficiently different tau RC integrators at the inputs. With the built-in Schmitt triggers these form monostable multivibrators and allow piggy-backing of
    the strobe signals on the data line. One can further steal the idea from
    the Dallas 1-wire chips and by adding a diode merge the VDD and the data line. By PWMing the VDD it becomes a truly one-way 1-wire digital link.
    Now, if the current consumption of the receiver is known, the receiver
    can connect (or not) a digitally controlled load, say 3x the current consumption for easy discrimination. The transmitter now sees I_load or 3xI-load and a receiver -> transmitter channel is formed with the same
    VDD line. You end up with a bidirectional 1-wire link using jellybean
    parts at the receiver end. The complexity is in the transmitter.

    Best regards, Piotr

    Something similar has been done in cochlear implants where low
    bandwidth telemetry is sent back to the external rf transmitter by
    modulating the load .

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jun 20 22:46:50 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    John Dope stated the following in message-id
    <svsh05$lbh$5@dont-email.me>
    (http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=164904625100) posted Fri, 4 Mar 2022
    08:01:09 -0000 (UTC):

    Compared to other regulars, Bozo contributes practically nothing
    except insults to this group.

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope's post ratio
    to USENET (**) has been 61.9% of its posts contributing "nothing except insults" to USENET.

    ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
    least 2000 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
    1065 have been John Dope "troll format" postings.

    The Troll Doe stated the following in message-id
    <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the Troll Doe stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless Troll Doe has continued to post incorrectly
    formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Mon, 20 Jun 2022 22:24:14 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t8qs2e$u6p$1@dont-email.me>).

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that John Dope does not even follow
    the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    aI0yujn9zAQo

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Mon Jun 20 22:24:14 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Anybody can take some words from my reply to John Larkin, stick them in Google's search engine, and find ACCURATE information about the subject.

    Bozo should stick to arguing with "a a", they make a good pair...

    --
    Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org> wrote:

    X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:4f10:b0:39c:7e7d:b9de with SMTP id l16-20020a05600c4f1000b0039c7e7db9demr24959191wmq.94.1655732891782; Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:48:11 -0700 (PDT)
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    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 06:48:10 -0700 (PDT)
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    googlegroups.com> <679d5a33-3dbf-4bd0-9a94-7b9b6114dc60n@googlegroups.com> <6fa7a5c0-acea-4ade-b7ec-98a18ec30817n@googlegroups.com> <b4bd89b6-2032-4593-8860-431a128bb87en@googlegroups.com> <dubvahtdfopbrsb256jgijm1vqevhq6iii@4ax.com> <
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    User-Agent: G2/1.0
    MIME-Version: 1.0
    Message-ID: <3238a30d-1aff-410f-9b36-7b2d0ea6ac39n@googlegroups.com>
    Subject: Re: power supply 1-wire remote sense
    From: Anthony William Sloman <bill.sloman@ieee.org>
    Injection-Date: Mon, 20 Jun 2022 13:48:11 +0000
    Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8"
    Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:672134

    On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 7:19:44 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    Ricky wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:

    <snip>

    It might get worse still. Prolonging the Russian-Ukrainian conflict will

    curb Russian and Ukrainian exports of noble gasses like neon, krypton, an
    d
    xenon, all key ingredients in the manufacturing of semiconductor chips. I
    f
    I read it correctly, chips manufactured in China might be less affected

    than others.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas

    "Neon, argon, krypton, and xenon are obtained from air in an air separation unit using the methods of liquefaction of gases and fractional distillation."

    Everybody liquifies air and sells liquid nitrogen. Elaborating the the plant a bit to pull out the noble gases isn't rocket science. Russia and the Ukraine may have tooled up for cheap mass production, but replacing them isn't going to be a big deal.
    It would probably just mean taking old kit out of mothball storage.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Mon Jun 20 16:05:28 2022
    On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 16:01:11 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 14:13:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
    not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate
    with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
    that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
    the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem).

    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
    The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its >>>>>>> nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's
    not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

    I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
    and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

    A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem
    to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
    only I could buy them!
    John

    It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data >>>>> stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

    The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

    Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

    I guess I'll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
    isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt,
    but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

    That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable >>> to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement.

    Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

    We're exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get. >>> We're also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards
    because some asshole bought up the world's supply of ADA4899s in the
    sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish.

    Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to
    normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn't like
    the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe.)


    M**** scrooed us badly, so we had to make 3000 of this:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzvv09ymjxwpdtj/Break2.jpg?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/50b1af02vcoqjgk/OnBoard.jpg?raw=1


    Yup, that's the plan for us too.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Mouse bites too? That worked great.

    Maxim trashed us by discontinuing the MAX9690 comparator, and then
    they started failing in the field after about a year. Some sort of
    oxide diffusion problem.

    To be fair, they "sampled" us 3000 of the MAX9691 that we used on the
    adapter boards.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to John Walliker on Mon Jun 20 16:12:57 2022
    On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 2:28:08 PM UTC-7, John Walliker wrote:
    On Monday, 20 June 2022 at 20:33:55 UTC+1, Piotr Wyderski wrote:

    Another trick worth mentioning is to use a 595 with two sufficiently different tau RC integrators at the inputs. With the built-in Schmitt triggers these form monostable multivibrators and allow piggy-backing of the strobe signals on the data line. One can further steal the idea from the Dallas 1-wire chips and by adding a diode merge the VDD and the data line. By PWMing the VDD it becomes a truly one-way 1-wire digital link. Now, if the current consumption of the receiver is known, the receiver
    can connect (or not) a digitally controlled load, say 3x the current consumption for easy discrimination. The transmitter now sees I_load or 3xI-load and a receiver -> transmitter channel is formed with the same
    VDD line. You end up with a bidirectional 1-wire link using jellybean
    parts at the receiver end. The complexity is in the transmitter.

    Something similar has been done in cochlear implants where low
    bandwidth telemetry is sent back to the external rf transmitter by
    modulating the load .

    Even with high voltages, a 4-to-20 mA signal can be workable with a
    single wire (and some notion of ground). I've also had occasion to run a VCO from a follower transistor power supply, taking the frequency as my analog signal by loading
    the oscillator's output and observing the follower's collector current swing.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Jun 21 06:05:38 2022
    On Tuesday, June 21, 2022 at 12:24:24 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:
    Anthony William Sloman <bill....@ieee.org> wrote:

    On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 7:19:44 AM UTC+2, John Doe wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    John Walliker wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:
    Ricky wrote:
    whit3rd wrote:

    <snip>

    It might get worse still. Prolonging the Russian-Ukrainian conflict will curb Russian and Ukrainian exports of noble gasses like neon, krypton, and xenon, all key ingredients in the manufacturing of semiconductor chips. If I read it correctly,
    chips manufactured in China might be less affected than others.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noble_gas

    "Neon, argon, krypton, and xenon are obtained from air in an air separation unit using the methods of liquefaction of gases and fractional distillation."

    Everybody liquifies air and sells liquid nitrogen. Elaborating the the plant a bit to pull out the noble gases isn't rocket science. Russia and the Ukraine may have tooled up for cheap mass production, but replacing them isn't going to be a big deal.
    It would probably just mean taking old kit out of mothball storage.

    Anybody can take some words from my reply to John Larkin, stick them in Google's search engine, and find ACCURATE information about the subject.

    Anybody except John Doe. He hasn't done it at all.

    He's implicitly claiming that my words are inaccurate, but he hasn't bothered to tell us why he thinks this. In fact he's just an idiot who resents have his idiocy jeered at. Quite how my bland assertion of simple - easily verified - facts could be "
    inaccurate" is hard to imagine, but John Doe doesn't understand enough to realise this.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Tue Jun 21 12:24:40 2022
    John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 16:01:11 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    John Larkin wrote:
    On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 14:13:16 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 16:27:43 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:

    On Sun, 19 Jun 2022 15:11:36 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Sunday, 19 June 2022 at 21:57:45 UTC+1, whit3rd wrote:
    On Sunday, June 19, 2022 at 11:26:59 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Saturday, June 18, 2022 at 3:27:11 AM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote: >>>>>>>>
    As for 'make sense' decisions: overcurrent or overvoltage would usually
    not wait for a smart digital chip's decision, but do something appropriate
    with a protective relay, circuit breaker, fuse... Undervoltage though,
    that's where a sense wire solution shines (take a millisecond, but get
    the value RIGHT before a guy with a meter sees the problem). >>>>>>>>
    What? A relay is too fast to wait for a digital chip to control it??? A RELAY?
    The input is a switchmode supply, intrinsically power limited by its >>>>>>>> nature, and only responding to logic input after finishing a current pulse. It's
    not lightning protection here, just craziness of the switching logic to be considered.

    I'd not trust the switching logic more than a relay. Latency in sampling,
    and decision logic, and switch period, may not be negligible.

    A much bigger concern is that none of the usual distributors seem >>>>>>> to have ADUM7703s in stock. It looks like a nice device - I could use a few if
    only I could buy them!
    John

    It's really cool. If you clock it at 20 MHz, you can process the data >>>>>> stream to get 15 bits at 625 ks/s or 27 bits at 39 ks/s.

    The fpga sinc3 filter looks insane to me, but it works.

    Mouser is expecting some in 2023!

    I guess I'll use diffamps into a grounded ADC instead of truly
    isolated ADCs. The ADUM is great for hanging across a current shunt, >>>>> but there are not-quite-isolated ways to digitize currents too.

    That also avoids problems with multiple grounds. Connecting a BNC cable >>>> to something at the load end could trash the 1-wire sense measurement. >>>>
    Looks like we can still buy opamps and resistors! Not much else.

    We're exploring new micros, because the new products are all we can get. >>>> We're also having to make DFN-to-SOIC turret-style adapter boards
    because some asshole bought up the world's supply of ADA4899s in the
    sane packages, and is selling them for $15ish instead of $5ish.

    Using the adapter saves spinning the board, and allows us to go back to >>>> normal whenever that blessed state arrives. (Hopefully it isn't like
    the starship waiting for the lemon-scented paper napkins in The
    Restaurant at the End of the Universe.)


    M**** scrooed us badly, so we had to make 3000 of this:

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/lzvv09ymjxwpdtj/Break2.jpg?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/50b1af02vcoqjgk/OnBoard.jpg?raw=1


    Yup, that's the plan for us too.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Mouse bites too? That worked great.

    Yeah, we use that 'castellated holes' trick reasonably often for that
    sort of job. I learned it by examining a TMB (transfer-molded board)
    LED package, which uses it. (I used those TMB-packaged LEDs as the
    femtoamp multiplexer in my Footprints pyroelectric imagers. (If you call
    96 pixels per sensor an image.) ;)

    Maxim trashed us by discontinuing the MAX9690 comparator, and then
    they started failing in the field after about a year. Some sort of
    oxide diffusion problem.

    To be fair, they "sampled" us 3000 of the MAX9691 that we used on the
    adapter boards.

    Like the Vogons, Maxim is/was "not actually evil, but bad-tempered, bureaucratic, officious, and callous." ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

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