• Spoke sensor for bicycle

    From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 18:51:21 2022
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.


    ======================================================
    Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com ====================================================== http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/

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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 11:57:18 2022
    On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.


    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor>


    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 17:29:46 2022
    On 14/06/2022 16:51, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    The ones I've had just used an encapsulated reed switch on the fork with
    a magnet on a spoke. It woke up the processor as well as providing a
    rotation signal.

    This was a few years back though.

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

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  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Tue Jun 14 20:09:26 2022
    On 6/14/2022 18:57, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.


    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor>


    Joe Gwinn

    Hmmm, but will that work at really low speed (like when pushing the
    bike uphill)? It is an idea to do it this way (I did not even know the
    name of the method so the idea is more than welcome), yet what I was
    thinking was more in the line of changing some oscillation frequency
    (thus detecting the spokes also "at DC").

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  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to dp@tgi-sci.com on Tue Jun 14 17:16:27 2022
    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I have
    been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the
    MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
    placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive sensors
    than I have.

    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these days,
    at least here in America.

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  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Jun 14 10:25:44 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:16:34 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I have been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
    placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive sensors than I have.
    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these days,
    at least here in America.

    People often talk about cell phones as if they had universal coverage. That is true for 99.9% of where people spend their time. But that 0.1% of the time, like biking in the woods, you are out of cell phone range. So any solution needs to not depend
    on a cell phone connection. If you can use the GPS in your phone without a cell connection, great! But I haven't found such a program as yet. Maybe I just haven't dug deep enough.

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Ricky on Tue Jun 14 20:35:15 2022
    On 6/14/2022 20:25, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:16:34 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I have
    been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
    indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the
    MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
    placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive >>> sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive sensors >>> than I have.
    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these days,
    at least here in America.

    People often talk about cell phones as if they had universal coverage. That is true for 99.9% of where people spend their time. But that 0.1% of the time, like biking in the woods, you are out of cell phone range. So any solution needs to not depend
    on a cell phone connection. If you can use the GPS in your phone without a cell connection, great! But I haven't found such a program as yet. Maybe I just haven't dug deep enough.


    Oh where I bike there is coverage allright, and I think I had seen
    references to some apps for biking. Looks like the only thing making
    me think of that "project" I am unlikely to ever even start is the
    sensor design.... (I am vague because I am not so sure myself why I
    keep thinking of this every now and then for 4 years and still have
    nothing in use when I bike :).

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to dp@tgi-sci.com on Tue Jun 14 17:43:00 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <t8aapr$ab6$1@dont-email.me>:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    Or you could make something like my gm_pic2:
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/

    It uses GPS and writes to SDcard or EEPROM where you were at any time, logs radiation there too
    There is software to replay the trip on google maps.
    After all the GPS talk here ..
    Simple maaz using the space and time between data points will allow you to find speed and distances.
    A GPS module and a Microchip 18F14k22 + EEPROM is all you need.
    Oh and a battery...
    Now been working 24/7 for 8 years... As clock mostly.
    No tinkering with your bike needed.
    Also logs trips per bus or train.

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  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Tue Jun 14 21:00:44 2022
    On 6/14/2022 20:43, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <t8aapr$ab6$1@dont-email.me>:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    Or you could make something like my gm_pic2:
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/

    It uses GPS and writes to SDcard or EEPROM where you were at any time, logs radiation there too
    There is software to replay the trip on google maps.
    After all the GPS talk here ..
    Simple maaz using the space and time between data points will allow you to find speed and distances.
    A GPS module and a Microchip 18F14k22 + EEPROM is all you need.
    Oh and a battery...
    Now been working 24/7 for 8 years... As clock mostly.
    No tinkering with your bike needed.
    Also logs trips per bus or train.



    Is the GPS accuracy/latency of the speed measurement close to that of
    a car's speed indicator?

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  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to Ricky on Tue Jun 14 17:59:46 2022
    Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:

    John Doe wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I
    have

    been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
    indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like
    the MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
    placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some
    inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one
    before the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on
    topic and I am sure there are people with more experience making
    inductive sensors than I have.

    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these
    days, at least here in America.

    People often talk about cell phones as if they had universal coverage.
    That is true for 99.9% of where people spend their time. But that 0.1%
    of the time, like biking in the woods, you are out of cell phone range.
    So any solution needs to not depend on a cell phone connection. If you
    can use the GPS in your phone without a cell connection, great! But I haven't found such a program as yet. Maybe I just haven't dug deep
    enough.

    On Android? Can anybody name one such Android app (with a decent rating)
    that DOESN'T work off-line (at least after you have paid the 1 or $2 for
    it)? There are plenty of hiking apps, obviously all of them work off-line.

    Another benefit is the logging, keeping a record of your travels. Plus it
    can use a phone's altimeter. Disclaimer: I haven't used any for real, just played with them.

    In the iPhone 3 days, I was pleasantly STUNNED by the fact weather radar
    was already available on a smartphone. I thought that was futuristic, but
    we were already there and there it was! Now the best for that is probably NOAH's website version. It's not perfectly functional, it could pause on
    the last frame and it could allow adjusting the frame rate, but it's easy
    to set up. It requires Internet. Use that sort of app on my PC ALL the time.

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  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Tue Jun 14 11:21:53 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 8:51:30 AM UTC-7, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    ...use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, ... I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    A magnet secured to a spoke, and a reed switch, makes a durable sensor, but
    is somewhat clumsy. A sensor of the metal spoke is hard, because spokes aren't all magnetic, there's stainless steels. Have you considered a reluctance
    sensor on a gear-cluster tooth? There's some DC insensitivity, unlike with Hall
    sensors, but maybe a low-speed signal dropout isn't going to be a bother.

    A reluctance sensor is a coil of wire between a long weak-ish magnet (you don't want to
    attract metal bits) and a tooth's circular trajectory. Into a high impedance, it generates a
    peak/valley two-lobed pulse at a tooth passage, where the volt-seconds of the peak
    and the volt-seconds of the valley are constants (so voltage goes low when speed is slow).
    A set/reset flipflop makes a good debouncer for that.

    You might consider putting a magnet not on a spoke, but inside
    the tire; a button-size rare earth magnet won't show, but a Hall sensor of the non-hysteresis
    type should pick it up easily. I'd put the magnet center-of-tread, and affix the sensor near the bottom bracket.

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  • From Joerg@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Jun 14 11:24:25 2022
    On 6/14/22 10:16 AM, John Doe wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I have
    been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
    indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the
    MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
    placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive
    sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive sensors
    than I have.

    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these days,
    at least here in America.


    Then, later in the afternoon during an all-day ride, there will be a low battery warning, followed by a dark screen.

    Why do we always have to make things so complicated? When I grew up speedometers didn't even need any electrical power. They just worked.

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

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  • From Joerg@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 11:22:18 2022
    On 6/14/22 8:51 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.


    There are at least two reasons for the magnet. One is that it triggers a
    reed contact on the other side. This allows the whole speedometer to not
    have to be turned off by hand for battery conservation. It simply does
    that on its own and when the reed switch changes state again it turns
    itself back on. So you can just park your bike and walk away. Well,
    maybe not in a large city because then it gets stolen.

    The second reason is that this system works down to very low speeds.
    There isn't actually a lower limit and it will still clock the miles
    correctly.


    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.


    I can already smell an engineer's solution coming up. Huge sensor,
    multiple bus cables, a laptop mounted to the handlebar ... :-)

    --
    Regards, Joerg

    http://www.analogconsultants.com/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to John Doe on Tue Jun 14 11:15:47 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:59:54 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
    Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:

    John Doe wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I
    have

    been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
    indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like
    the MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet >>> placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some
    inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one
    before the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on
    topic and I am sure there are people with more experience making
    inductive sensors than I have.

    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these
    days, at least here in America.

    People often talk about cell phones as if they had universal coverage. That is true for 99.9% of where people spend their time. But that 0.1%
    of the time, like biking in the woods, you are out of cell phone range.
    So any solution needs to not depend on a cell phone connection. If you
    can use the GPS in your phone without a cell connection, great! But I haven't found such a program as yet. Maybe I just haven't dug deep
    enough.
    On Android? Can anybody name one such Android app (with a decent rating) that DOESN'T work off-line (at least after you have paid the 1 or $2 for it)? There are plenty of hiking apps, obviously all of them work off-line.

    I can't get Alltrails to do much offline. It does have a numeric display that shows your lat/long, but that's not much use. To do anything else it's asking me to log in! That's hard to do without a connection. I guess people download stuff in advance
    of a hike or whatever... or they just use their data connection, when they have one.

    --

    Rick C.

    + Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    + Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Tue Jun 14 11:27:57 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 2:00:52 PM UTC-4, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 6/14/2022 20:43, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff
    <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <t8aapr$ab6$1...@dont-email.me>:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before >> the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and >> I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    Or you could make something like my gm_pic2: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/

    It uses GPS and writes to SDcard or EEPROM where you were at any time, logs radiation there too
    There is software to replay the trip on google maps.
    After all the GPS talk here ..
    Simple maaz using the space and time between data points will allow you to find speed and distances.
    A GPS module and a Microchip 18F14k22 + EEPROM is all you need.
    Oh and a battery...
    Now been working 24/7 for 8 years... As clock mostly.
    No tinkering with your bike needed.
    Also logs trips per bus or train.


    Is the GPS accuracy/latency of the speed measurement close to that of
    a car's speed indicator?

    "Close" is probably the best you can claim. Each 1 second update is a second old by the time you get it from the GPS. The accuracy can be there, but it depends on the constellation. With some xx feet of accuracy, each calculation can have errors that
    are significant if you are not moving fast. 30 mph is 44 fps, so 14 foot accuracy (what I'm seeing now and a typical value) is significant. GPS measurements are typically filtered. That's one reason why your car navigation can prompt you rather late
    sometimes (or early). It is hard for a GPS to know what lane you are in, but can tell if you are on the parallel access road and not the main highway.

    --

    Rick C.

    -- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 11:36:43 2022
    tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 20.28.02 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 2:00:52 PM UTC-4, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 6/14/2022 20:43, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff
    <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <t8aapr$ab6$1...@dont-email.me>:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor. >>
    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before >> the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and >> I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    Or you could make something like my gm_pic2: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/

    It uses GPS and writes to SDcard or EEPROM where you were at any time, logs radiation there too
    There is software to replay the trip on google maps.
    After all the GPS talk here ..
    Simple maaz using the space and time between data points will allow you to find speed and distances.
    A GPS module and a Microchip 18F14k22 + EEPROM is all you need.
    Oh and a battery...
    Now been working 24/7 for 8 years... As clock mostly.
    No tinkering with your bike needed.
    Also logs trips per bus or train.


    Is the GPS accuracy/latency of the speed measurement close to that of
    a car's speed indicator?
    "Close" is probably the best you can claim. Each 1 second update is a second old by the time you get it from the GPS. The accuracy can be there, but it depends on the constellation. With some xx feet of accuracy, each calculation can have errors that
    are significant if you are not moving fast. 30 mph is 44 fps, so 14 foot accuracy (what I'm seeing now and a typical value) is significant. GPS measurements are typically filtered. That's one reason why your car navigation can prompt you rather late
    sometimes (or early). It is hard for a GPS to know what lane you are in, but can tell if you are on the parallel access road and not the main highway.


    https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

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  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 11:31:59 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 2:21:58 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 8:51:30 AM UTC-7, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    ...use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, ... I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.
    A magnet secured to a spoke, and a reed switch, makes a durable sensor, but is somewhat clumsy. A sensor of the metal spoke is hard, because spokes aren't all magnetic, there's stainless steels. Have you considered a reluctance
    sensor on a gear-cluster tooth? There's some DC insensitivity, unlike with Hall
    sensors, but maybe a low-speed signal dropout isn't going to be a bother.

    Does it have to be magnetic? A conductor moving in a magnetic field creates a current which also creates a magnetic field which can be detected, no?

    --

    Rick C.

    -+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 11:44:56 2022
    tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 20.00.52 UTC+2 skrev Dimiter Popoff:
    On 6/14/2022 20:43, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <t8aapr$ab6$1...@dont-email.me>:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    Or you could make something like my gm_pic2: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/

    It uses GPS and writes to SDcard or EEPROM where you were at any time, logs radiation there too
    There is software to replay the trip on google maps.
    After all the GPS talk here ..
    Simple maaz using the space and time between data points will allow you to find speed and distances.
    A GPS module and a Microchip 18F14k22 + EEPROM is all you need.
    Oh and a battery...
    Now been working 24/7 for 8 years... As clock mostly.
    No tinkering with your bike needed.
    Also logs trips per bus or train.


    Is the GPS accuracy/latency of the speed measurement close to that of
    a car's speed indicator?

    a car speedometer is only required to be -0 to +10%

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Ricky on Tue Jun 14 12:04:00 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 11:32:03 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 2:21:58 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:

    ... a reluctance
    sensor on a gear-cluster tooth? There's some DC insensitivity, unlike with Hall
    sensors, but maybe a low-speed signal dropout isn't going to be a bother.

    Does it have to be magnetic? A conductor moving in a magnetic field creates a current which also creates a magnetic field which can be detected, no?

    A nonmagnetic gear tooth will (in motion) disturb a magnetic field, and make a pulse.
    The eddy current response, though, is less than a ferromagnetic material's, and has a time decay
    of its own, added to the coil's DC insensitivity.

    An IR (modulated? polarized?) source, aimed at a retroreflector on a spoke, has good range and sensitivity, at a cost
    of some power usage. Rejecting ambient light and dirt are other issues there.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 22:01:01 2022
    On 6/14/2022 21:21, whit3rd wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 8:51:30 AM UTC-7, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    ...use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, ... I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    A magnet secured to a spoke, and a reed switch, makes a durable sensor, but is somewhat clumsy. A sensor of the metal spoke is hard, because spokes aren't all magnetic, there's stainless steels.

    Aaaah, the stainless steel is a game changer of course. Had not thought
    of that at all - though I know the spokes are not rusty (some at the end
    where they are tightened to the wheel but not all and not much). And it
    is not like they have not seen water, 1-2 months ago getting back
    after waiting for a torrential rain to subside I was nearly in submarine
    mode ...

    Have you considered a reluctance
    sensor on a gear-cluster tooth? There's some DC insensitivity, unlike with Hall
    sensors, but maybe a low-speed signal dropout isn't going to be a bother. > A reluctance sensor is a coil of wire between a long weak-ish magnet (you don't want to
    attract metal bits) and a tooth's circular trajectory. Into a high impedance, it generates a
    peak/valley two-lobed pulse at a tooth passage, where the volt-seconds of the peak
    and the volt-seconds of the valley are constants (so voltage goes low when speed is slow).
    A set/reset flipflop makes a good debouncer for that.

    You might consider putting a magnet not on a spoke, but inside
    the tire; a button-size rare earth magnet won't show, but a Hall sensor of the non-hysteresis
    type should pick it up easily. I'd put the magnet center-of-tread, and affix the sensor near the bottom bracket.

    Putting the magnet underneath the tire is an idea. Of course I might
    lose it if I have a flat and repair it on the road (you won't believe
    how often I was getting a flat until I got my latest tires, they claim
    to have some Kevlar and I had just one flat in a year or two (can't
    remember if I got them last year or the year before, almost replacement
    due now). But then I have a decent supply of coin magnets, too (say 1mm thick/10mm diameter)...

    The Hall sensors I have "in the drawer" are some with hysteresis though,
    they need such a magnet really close (within 1mm if not less) to work,
    would need some other kind but that should be the easiest part.
    But well, it looks I am not going to start the project any time soon.
    And I did download some biking app to the phone, this makes the
    project's prospects even more bleak...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 12:20:41 2022
    On 6/14/2022 8:51 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.

    As the COTS units are "super cheap", one has to assume you want
    to do something MORE -- or differently...

    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    You need to consider your goal. If you simply want to know your
    "physical displacement" on the globe, then periodic fixes from a GPS
    (with straightline interpolation of route traveled) is a crude
    approximation. Advantage: you likely are already carrying a cell
    phone that could give you that data. Disadvantage: GPS accuracy
    varies (from moment to moment) as does reception. Likely won't
    tell you you're moving at all if your pedaling in a tight circle!

    A variable reluctance sensor noting the passing of one or more
    "slugs" on the wheel gives you an idea of rotation -- if you
    aren't concerned with direction of rotation (software to filter out
    "jitter" if you're stopped and rocking forwards and backwards on
    a "sense point"). A magnet and reed switch can do comparable.

    Optical ON THE WHEEL is likely not practical due to weather
    conditions.

    All of these have issues with proximity of sensor -- an out of
    true wheel (wobble) could complicate things.

    Personally, if I saw some added value to rolling my own, I'd
    opt for a "vintage" speedometer's pickup:

    <https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JkMAAOSws21iGSc9/s-l1600.jpg>

    transferring motion through a "cable-in-cable" to a "head
    unit" that has been gutted. Mount a toothed gear on the end
    of the cable shaft *in* the head unit and sense rotation optically
    or variable reluctance. Quadrature detector if you want to
    be able to note direction of movement for FINE sensitivity.

    Electronics mounted on a little board that also supports the
    inductive/optical sensors -- display, controls, etc.

    This lets you move the electronics (and display) away
    from the wheel -- which is likely kicking up mud, water, etc.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Tue Jun 14 13:05:40 2022
    On 6/14/2022 12:39 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 21.21.00 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
    On 6/14/2022 8:51 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    As the COTS units are "super cheap", one has to assume you want
    to do something MORE -- or differently...
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.
    You need to consider your goal. If you simply want to know your
    "physical displacement" on the globe, then periodic fixes from a GPS
    (with straightline interpolation of route traveled) is a crude
    approximation. Advantage: you likely are already carrying a cell
    phone that could give you that data. Disadvantage: GPS accuracy
    varies (from moment to moment) as does reception. Likely won't
    tell you you're moving at all if your pedaling in a tight circle!

    A variable reluctance sensor noting the passing of one or more
    "slugs" on the wheel gives you an idea of rotation -- if you
    aren't concerned with direction of rotation (software to filter out
    "jitter" if you're stopped and rocking forwards and backwards on
    a "sense point"). A magnet and reed switch can do comparable.

    Optical ON THE WHEEL is likely not practical due to weather
    conditions.

    All of these have issues with proximity of sensor -- an out of
    true wheel (wobble) could complicate things.

    Personally, if I saw some added value to rolling my own, I'd
    opt for a "vintage" speedometer's pickup:

    <https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JkMAAOSws21iGSc9/s-l1600.jpg>

    transferring motion through a "cable-in-cable" to a "head
    unit" that has been gutted. Mount a toothed gear on the end
    of the cable shaft *in* the head unit and sense rotation optically
    or variable reluctance. Quadrature detector if you want to
    be able to note direction of movement for FINE sensitivity.

    how would that make any sense compared to the simple and ultra reliable reed and magnet?

    "As the COTS units are "super cheap", one has to assume you want
    to do something MORE -- or differently..."

    He can *buy* the "ultrareliable reed switch and magnet". Presumably,
    that doesn't meet his needs. It doesn't, for example, register correctly
    if the magnet happens to be CLOSE (rotationally) to the switch and
    you are stopped -- chatting with someone -- while rocking forwards and backwards with the bicycle. (it has no sense of direction)

    It doesn't register variations in speed within a single revolution
    (e.g., cranking up hill) or the instantaneous WHEEL acceleration from
    the rider's efforts.

    It also requires the wheel to be true (no wobble) to ensure the distance
    from magnet to switch is sufficient to reliably engage -- while not getting *whacked* by some other portion of the wheel as it passes that isn't
    true.

    The magnet can be dislodged, sensor alignment botched, etc. If
    you swap out the wheel, you have to remount a new magnet on the
    replacement wheel, ensure proper alignment, etc.

    And, you're still going to have to run a (electrical) cable up
    to some sort of display/control unit. And, protect that input
    to the electronics (i.e., you wouldn't want to directly expose a
    pin to that external signal) lest the device die with the first
    bit of ESD.

    Instead, bring the motion (ALL of it) up to that unit and let *it* decide
    what criteria are appropriate to measure. Instead of cable-in-cable plugging into the back of a legacy "speedometer" (indicator), let it drive a slotted wheel/gear mounted on a board already aligned with the sensors (which need
    not worry about the same environmental issues that sensing ON the wheel imposes) and UNBUFFERED inputs to whatever processing/display/control logic.

    Rube Goldberg would be proud

    Most of his designs worked!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 12:39:58 2022
    tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 21.21.00 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:
    On 6/14/2022 8:51 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    As the COTS units are "super cheap", one has to assume you want
    to do something MORE -- or differently...
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.
    You need to consider your goal. If you simply want to know your
    "physical displacement" on the globe, then periodic fixes from a GPS
    (with straightline interpolation of route traveled) is a crude
    approximation. Advantage: you likely are already carrying a cell
    phone that could give you that data. Disadvantage: GPS accuracy
    varies (from moment to moment) as does reception. Likely won't
    tell you you're moving at all if your pedaling in a tight circle!

    A variable reluctance sensor noting the passing of one or more
    "slugs" on the wheel gives you an idea of rotation -- if you
    aren't concerned with direction of rotation (software to filter out
    "jitter" if you're stopped and rocking forwards and backwards on
    a "sense point"). A magnet and reed switch can do comparable.

    Optical ON THE WHEEL is likely not practical due to weather
    conditions.

    All of these have issues with proximity of sensor -- an out of
    true wheel (wobble) could complicate things.

    Personally, if I saw some added value to rolling my own, I'd
    opt for a "vintage" speedometer's pickup:

    <https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JkMAAOSws21iGSc9/s-l1600.jpg>

    transferring motion through a "cable-in-cable" to a "head
    unit" that has been gutted. Mount a toothed gear on the end
    of the cable shaft *in* the head unit and sense rotation optically
    or variable reluctance. Quadrature detector if you want to
    be able to note direction of movement for FINE sensitivity.

    how would that make any sense compared to the simple and ultra reliable reed and magnet?

    Rube Goldberg would be proud

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From amdx@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 15:35:30 2022
    On 6/14/2022 12:35 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 6/14/2022 20:25, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:16:34 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I
    have
    been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
    indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the >>>> MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
    placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some
    inductive
    sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one
    before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic
    and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors
    than I have.
    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these
    days,
    at least here in America.

    People often talk about cell phones as if they had universal
    coverage.  That is true for 99.9% of where people spend their time. 
    But that 0.1% of the time, like biking in the woods, you are out of
    cell phone range.  So any solution needs to not depend on a cell
    phone connection.  If you can use the GPS in your phone without a
    cell connection, great!  But I haven't found such a program as yet. 
    Maybe I just haven't dug deep enough.


    Oh where I bike there is coverage allright, and I think I had seen
    references to some apps for biking. Looks like the only thing making
    me think of that "project" I am unlikely to ever even start is the
    sensor design.... (I am vague because I am not so sure myself why I
    keep thinking of this every now and then for 4 years and still have
    nothing in use when I bike :).
    Google tracks me all over, it knows if I drive, bike or walk. I'm not
    sure the times that has come in handy is worth being tracked.
    But at least if a bank is robbed my phone should be able to prove it
    didn't do it.

    --
    This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. https://www.avast.com/antivirus

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to lang...@fonz.dk on Tue Jun 14 13:39:30 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:40:03 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
    tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 21.21.00 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:

    Personally, if I saw some added value to rolling my own, I'd
    opt for a "vintage" speedometer's pickup:

    <https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JkMAAOSws21iGSc9/s-l1600.jpg>

    transferring motion through a "cable-in-cable" to a "head
    unit" that has been gutted. Mount a toothed gear on the end
    of the cable shaft *in* the head unit and sense rotation optically
    or variable reluctance. Quadrature detector if you want to
    be able to note direction of movement for FINE sensitivity.
    how would that make any sense compared to the simple and ultra reliable reed and magnet?

    Rube Goldberg would be proud

    Two advantages: it knows forward from reverse, and it has angular sensitivity to sub-one-revolution
    movement. It also doesn't need an adjustment-type mount for the sensor, just slap it around the axle and mount the wheel. There's nothing to prevent that kind
    of axle-mount item from having a magnet and quadrature reed switches, of course; the speedometer-cable
    is a bit of a hassle compared to a signal wire.

    A better solution would be to instument a hub and axle, but the axle diameter is fixed by the bicycle frame, and
    the hub by the wheel-builders. That means redesigns of the mechanical bits unless one lucks out and
    finds a compatible generator hub off-the-shelf.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 20:37:09 2022
    Okay then, just clip a playing card to the fork.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to dp@tgi-sci.com on Tue Jun 14 22:02:59 2022
    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in
    news:t8aapr$ab6$1@dont-email.me:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle
    computers" I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive
    sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one
    before the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be
    on topic and I am sure there are people with more experience
    making inductive sensors than I have.

    Most out there do not sense every spoke, but instead sense a metal
    flag attached to one spoke and most use a hall effect sensor
    transducer for that.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 17:56:50 2022
    On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:09:26 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    On 6/14/2022 18:57, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.


    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor>


    Joe Gwinn

    Hmmm, but will that work at really low speed (like when pushing the
    bike uphill)? It is an idea to do it this way (I did not even know the
    name of the method so the idea is more than welcome), yet what I was
    thinking was more in the line of changing some oscillation frequency
    (thus detecting the spokes also "at DC").

    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be
    solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
    brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John Dope on Tue Jun 14 22:08:50 2022
    John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t8afpb$t21$6@dont-email.me:

    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle
    computers" I have been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4
    years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously. While this
    may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking about it -
    not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just the
    rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one of
    the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for pretty
    precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc., but I
    only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I imagine
    it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one
    before the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be
    on topic and I am sure there are people with more experience
    making inductive sensors than I have.

    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone
    these days, at least here in America.


    With a range of error. At least unless you are using militsry grade
    hardware and getting military grade resolves logged.

    Phones are slow at keeping up. Use one riding a bus and you can
    watch the lags in real time.

    Johnny loses the phone on a bus gps test! Ehhhh!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc on Tue Jun 14 22:15:28 2022
    Record-setting gas prices every day.

    Highest inflation rate since 1981 when Ronald Reagan entered office.



    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

    John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t8afpb$t21$6@dont-email.me:

    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle
    computers" I have been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4
    years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously. While this
    may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking about it -
    not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just the
    rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one of
    the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for pretty
    precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc., but I
    only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I imagine
    it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one
    before the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be
    on topic and I am sure there are people with more experience
    making inductive sensors than I have.

    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone
    these days, at least here in America.


    With a range of error. At least unless you are using militsry grade
    hardware and getting military grade resolves logged.

    Phones are slow at keeping up. Use one riding a bus and you can
    watch the lags in real time.

    Johnny loses the phone on a bus gps test! Ehhhh!


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John Dope on Tue Jun 14 22:24:20 2022
    John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t8b1a0$h8t$1 @dont-email.me:


    Record-setting gas prices every day.

    You forgot to mention record setting profits for oil companies AND
    for the local gas stations, as they all jumped onto Trump's jack the
    price to make Biden look bad bandwagon. You ain't fooling anyone,
    you retarded fucks.

    Highest inflation rate since 1981 when Ronald Reagan entered
    office.

    The fault also of the oil companies as the food prices, etc. all
    have logistical ties to fuel prices via the transportation industry
    that distributes the end products.

    You dopey Republitard idiots always conveniently ignore the factors
    driving inflation that besets a new administration, especially if the
    other party of previous admin is a bunch of vindictive idiots not
    caring about the nation as they take their jabs at the other party.

    Another reason why the likes of Perry should never hold a public
    office.

    You could not be more stupid if you tried.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc on Tue Jun 14 23:40:55 2022
    Record-setting gas prices every day.

    Highest inflation rate since 1981 when Ronald Reagan entered
    office.

    The stock market is down to below when Joe Biden entered office.

    Biden's approval rating is falling to new lows.



    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

    John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t8b1a0$h8t$1 @dont-email.me:


    Record-setting gas prices every day.

    You forgot to mention record setting profits for oil companies AND
    for the local gas stations, as they all jumped onto Trump's jack the
    price to make Biden look bad bandwagon. You ain't fooling anyone,
    you retarded fucks.

    Highest inflation rate since 1981 when Ronald Reagan entered
    office.

    The fault also of the oil companies as the food prices, etc. all
    have logistical ties to fuel prices via the transportation industry
    that distributes the end products.

    You dopey Republitard idiots always conveniently ignore the factors
    driving inflation that besets a new administration, especially if the
    other party of previous admin is a bunch of vindictive idiots not
    caring about the nation as they take their jabs at the other party.

    Another reason why the likes of Perry should never hold a public
    office.

    You could not be more stupid if you tried.


    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 17:22:00 2022
    On 6/14/2022 1:39 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 12:40:03 PM UTC-7, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
    tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 21.21.00 UTC+2 skrev Don Y:

    Personally, if I saw some added value to rolling my own, I'd
    opt for a "vintage" speedometer's pickup:

    <https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/JkMAAOSws21iGSc9/s-l1600.jpg>

    transferring motion through a "cable-in-cable" to a "head
    unit" that has been gutted. Mount a toothed gear on the end
    of the cable shaft *in* the head unit and sense rotation optically
    or variable reluctance. Quadrature detector if you want to
    be able to note direction of movement for FINE sensitivity.
    how would that make any sense compared to the simple and ultra reliable reed and magnet?

    Rube Goldberg would be proud

    Two advantages: it knows forward from reverse, and it has angular sensitivity to sub-one-revolution
    movement. It also doesn't need an adjustment-type mount for the sensor, just
    slap it around the axle and mount the wheel. There's nothing to prevent that kind
    of axle-mount item from having a magnet and quadrature reed switches, of course; the speedometer-cable
    is a bit of a hassle compared to a signal wire.

    A better solution would be to instument a hub and axle, but the axle diameter is fixed by the bicycle frame, and
    the hub by the wheel-builders. That means redesigns of the mechanical bits unless one lucks out and
    finds a compatible generator hub off-the-shelf.

    The biggest win is it gets you away from the wheel. E.g., you could affix a bar magnet to the end of the cable-in-cable and detect it's rotation (to whatever extent you desire) as well as using its motion to generate *power*
    for the circuit (esp with the ultra low power technologies now available;
    think about the tire-rubbing generators that used to power headlamps...)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Don Y on Tue Jun 14 18:07:54 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 5:22:18 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
    On 6/14/2022 1:39 PM, whit3rd wrote:

    A better solution would be to instument a hub and axle, but the axle diameter is fixed by the bicycle frame, and
    the hub by the wheel-builders. That means redesigns of the mechanical bits unless one lucks out and
    finds a compatible generator hub off-the-shelf.

    The biggest win is it gets you away from the wheel. E.g., you could affix a bar magnet to the end of the cable-in-cable and detect it's rotation (to whatever extent you desire) as well as using its motion to generate *power* for the circuit (esp with the ultra low power technologies now available; think about the tire-rubbing generators that used to power headlamps...)

    Yeah; those delivered 2 or 3 watts; enough for a halogen flashlight lamp,
    and to charge a 6V lead/acid battery for standstill lighting. If you use
    one built into a wheel hub, the dynamo pole count determines the AC cycles per mile travelled.
    The friction type can be precalibrated easily (the drive drum circumference is better known
    than the tire's) if it engages the tread rather than the sidewall of the tire.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 19:11:36 2022
    On 06/14/2022 12:00 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 6/14/2022 20:43, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300) it happened
    Dimiter_Popoff
    <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <t8aapr$ab6$1@dont-email.me>:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    Or you could make something like my gm_pic2:
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/

    It uses GPS and writes to SDcard or EEPROM where you were at any time,
    logs radiation there too
    There is software to replay the trip on google maps.
    After all the GPS talk here ..
    Simple maaz using the space and time between data points will allow
    you to find speed and distances.
    A GPS module and a Microchip 18F14k22 + EEPROM is all you need.
    Oh and a battery...
    Now been working 24/7 for 8 years... As clock mostly.
    No tinkering with your bike needed.
    Also logs trips per bus or train.



    Is the GPS accuracy/latency of the speed measurement close to that of
    a car's speed indicator?


    Most of the time. The 14" studded tires I run in the winter have a
    smaller rolling diameter than the 15" tires the speedometer is
    calibrated for so it's off by about 5mph. For that reason I'm in the
    habit of looking at the Nuvi speed rather than the speedometer.

    In some weather conditions or when I'm driving at the base of a ridge
    that blocks the southern sky the GPS is wildly inaccurate so much so it
    is easy to detect when it's having issues.

    I often carry a GPSr when I'm hiking (Garmin Etex 20). The terrain is mountainous here so satellite coverage can be sketchy. Sometimes the
    distance is radically off as is the maximum speed. Unless I just rolled
    down a slope I'm probably not hitting 4.7 mph. I don't think the device
    has the intelligence to discard obvious false data points.

    I've got one of the step apps on the phone. It says it does not use the
    GPS so it's working off the accelerometer data and it's surprisingly
    accurate for the mileage particularly considering there was no setup for
    the length of my stride.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Tue Jun 14 20:03:12 2022
    On 06/14/2022 06:22 PM, Don Y wrote:
    The biggest win is it gets you away from the wheel. E.g., you could
    affix a
    bar magnet to the end of the cable-in-cable and detect it's rotation (to whatever extent you desire) as well as using its motion to generate *power* for the circuit (esp with the ultra low power technologies now available; think about the tire-rubbing generators that used to power headlamps...)

    What a wondrous invention they were... All that aggro for a one
    candlepower headlamp. Somehow I associate those with the Sturmey-Archer
    three speed hubs.

    I suppose driving a generator that way is better than driving the
    bicycle with a 26cc motor in a similar way:

    http://bumblebeebolton.com/front_instructions.html

    I thought the concept might have been relegated to the trash bin of
    history but I've seen a similar design for a DIY low rent eBike.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 19:30:30 2022
    On 06/14/2022 01:01 PM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 6/14/2022 21:21, whit3rd wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 8:51:30 AM UTC-7, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    ...use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, ... I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    A magnet secured to a spoke, and a reed switch, makes a durable
    sensor, but
    is somewhat clumsy. A sensor of the metal spoke is hard, because spokes
    aren't all magnetic, there's stainless steels.

    Aaaah, the stainless steel is a game changer of course. Had not thought
    of that at all - though I know the spokes are not rusty (some at the end where they are tightened to the wheel but not all and not much). And it
    is not like they have not seen water, 1-2 months ago getting back
    after waiting for a torrential rain to subside I was nearly in submarine
    mode ...


    Carbon fiber spokes would be a problem too. The LCD odometer on my
    motorcycle is old and is only legible if the temperature is close to 90
    F so I adapted a bike speedometer/odometer. I epoxied the magnet on the
    rim near the tire bead and built a bracket for the sensor. It works
    quite well and since I can program in the rolling diameter of the front
    wheel it is very accurate.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Joerg on Tue Jun 14 19:47:20 2022
    On 06/14/2022 12:24 PM, Joerg wrote:
    On 6/14/22 10:16 AM, John Doe wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I have
    been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
    indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the
    MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
    placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive >>> sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive sensors >>> than I have.

    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these days,
    at least here in America.


    Then, later in the afternoon during an all-day ride, there will be a low battery warning, followed by a dark screen.

    Why do we always have to make things so complicated? When I grew up speedometers didn't even need any electrical power. They just worked.


    They just worked until the core of the flexible shaft broke. If you were
    lucky the strands didn't tear up the housing so you could buy a new
    core, figure out how long it had to be, cut if off, and crimp on the
    square drive end. If you were really lucky the transmission end of the
    drive was above the lubricant level so you didn't have Type F fluid
    running down your arm.

    While I can get nostalgic for the good old days I'm not senile enough to
    forget what a pain in the butt it was when things just didn't work.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Tue Jun 14 19:19:01 2022
    On 06/14/2022 12:44 PM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 20.00.52 UTC+2 skrev Dimiter Popoff:
    On 6/14/2022 20:43, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff >>> <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <t8aapr$ab6$1...@dont-email.me>:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor. >>>>
    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before >>>> the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and >>>> I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    Or you could make something like my gm_pic2:
    http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/

    It uses GPS and writes to SDcard or EEPROM where you were at any time, logs radiation there too
    There is software to replay the trip on google maps.
    After all the GPS talk here ..
    Simple maaz using the space and time between data points will allow you to find speed and distances.
    A GPS module and a Microchip 18F14k22 + EEPROM is all you need.
    Oh and a battery...
    Now been working 24/7 for 8 years... As clock mostly.
    No tinkering with your bike needed.
    Also logs trips per bus or train.


    Is the GPS accuracy/latency of the speed measurement close to that of
    a car's speed indicator?

    a car speedometer is only required to be -0 to +10%


    And for most Japanese motorcycles it is +10%. The conventional wisdom is
    it's a liability thing. Since they can't control aftermarket tires they overstate the speed. You get used to subtracting 5 mph from the reading.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 21:07:52 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 3:04:05 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 11:32:03 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 2:21:58 PM UTC-4, whit3rd wrote:
    ... a reluctance
    sensor on a gear-cluster tooth? There's some DC insensitivity, unlike with Hall
    sensors, but maybe a low-speed signal dropout isn't going to be a bother.

    Does it have to be magnetic? A conductor moving in a magnetic field creates a current which also creates a magnetic field which can be detected, no?
    A nonmagnetic gear tooth will (in motion) disturb a magnetic field, and make a pulse.
    The eddy current response, though, is less than a ferromagnetic material's, and has a time decay
    of its own, added to the coil's DC insensitivity.

    An IR (modulated? polarized?) source, aimed at a retroreflector on a spoke, has good range and sensitivity, at a cost
    of some power usage. Rejecting ambient light and dirt are other issues there.

    I know they use induced currents in aluminum cans to separate them using a magnet. The magnet spins under the conveyor belt making the cans jump off the end, while the rest of the stream simply falls off. A friend who worked in the industry complained
    that my crushing cans made this not work as well. But my cans are sold as aluminum, not mixed into the all-in-one stream.

    --

    Rick C.

    --- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to lang...@fonz.dk on Tue Jun 14 21:03:31 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 2:36:47 PM UTC-4, lang...@fonz.dk wrote:
    tirsdag den 14. juni 2022 kl. 20.28.02 UTC+2 skrev Ricky:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 2:00:52 PM UTC-4, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 6/14/2022 20:43, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff
    <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <t8aapr$ab6$1...@dont-email.me>:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" >> I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    Or you could make something like my gm_pic2: http://panteltje.com/panteltje/pic/gm_pic2/

    It uses GPS and writes to SDcard or EEPROM where you were at any time, logs radiation there too
    There is software to replay the trip on google maps.
    After all the GPS talk here ..
    Simple maaz using the space and time between data points will allow you to find speed and distances.
    A GPS module and a Microchip 18F14k22 + EEPROM is all you need.
    Oh and a battery...
    Now been working 24/7 for 8 years... As clock mostly.
    No tinkering with your bike needed.
    Also logs trips per bus or train.


    Is the GPS accuracy/latency of the speed measurement close to that of
    a car's speed indicator?
    "Close" is probably the best you can claim. Each 1 second update is a second old by the time you get it from the GPS. The accuracy can be there, but it depends on the constellation. With some xx feet of accuracy, each calculation can have errors that
    are significant if you are not moving fast. 30 mph is 44 fps, so 14 foot accuracy (what I'm seeing now and a typical value) is significant. GPS measurements are typically filtered. That's one reason why your car navigation can prompt you rather late
    sometimes (or early). It is hard for a GPS to know what lane you are in, but can tell if you are on the parallel access road and not the main highway.

    https://www.gps.gov/systems/gps/performance/accuracy/

    "This measure must be combined with other factors outside the government's control, including satellite geometry, signal blockage, atmospheric conditions, and receiver design features/quality, to calculate a particular receiver's speed accuracy."

    --

    Rick C.

    ++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    ++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jun 14 22:55:34 2022
    On 6/14/2022 6:07 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 5:22:18 PM UTC-7, Don Y wrote:
    On 6/14/2022 1:39 PM, whit3rd wrote:

    A better solution would be to instument a hub and axle, but the axle diameter is fixed by the bicycle frame, and
    the hub by the wheel-builders. That means redesigns of the mechanical bits unless one lucks out and
    finds a compatible generator hub off-the-shelf.

    The biggest win is it gets you away from the wheel. E.g., you could affix a >> bar magnet to the end of the cable-in-cable and detect it's rotation (to
    whatever extent you desire) as well as using its motion to generate *power* >> for the circuit (esp with the ultra low power technologies now available;
    think about the tire-rubbing generators that used to power headlamps...)

    Yeah; those delivered 2 or 3 watts; enough for a halogen flashlight lamp,
    and to charge a 6V lead/acid battery for standstill lighting.

    I've not seen one in decades. They seem to predate the "10 speed" time in
    my life.

    But, I recall them as putting lots of drag on the wheel. And, as a
    "rotation sensor", they would be inadequate as I doubt the signal
    would "integrate" well.

    If you use
    one built into a wheel hub, the dynamo pole count determines the AC cycles per mile travelled.

    OK. That would be similar to my "spinning magnet" idea.

    The friction type can be precalibrated easily (the drive drum circumference is better known
    than the tire's) if it engages the tread rather than the sidewall of the tire.

    I don't think the output would translate into "revolutions" well, across the range of possible speeds. Likewise, I imagine it would still produce an
    output when the wheel moved *backwards* (?)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Tue Jun 14 23:02:15 2022
    On 6/14/2022 7:03 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 06/14/2022 06:22 PM, Don Y wrote:
    The biggest win is it gets you away from the wheel. E.g., you could
    affix a
    bar magnet to the end of the cable-in-cable and detect it's rotation (to
    whatever extent you desire) as well as using its motion to generate *power* >> for the circuit (esp with the ultra low power technologies now available;
    think about the tire-rubbing generators that used to power headlamps...)

    What a wondrous invention they were... All that aggro for a one candlepower headlamp. Somehow I associate those with the Sturmey-Archer three speed hubs.

    I suppose driving a generator that way is better than driving the bicycle with
    a 26cc motor in a similar way:

    http://bumblebeebolton.com/front_instructions.html

    I thought the concept might have been relegated to the trash bin of history but
    I've seen a similar design for a DIY low rent eBike.

    I've been looking for an "alternate" form of transportation for the
    little jaunts -- to the library, post office, etc. Just a couple of
    miles, likely off-road.

    Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind. But, none
    have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
    on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).

    But, recently, I'm liking the idea of a small gas powered generator
    tucked in the battery compartment of my electric wheelchair (!).
    This would eliminate the maintenance issue of the batteries
    ($400/set) as well as increase the possible RELIABLE range of
    the chair. (of course, you couldn't use it indoors but that's fine)

    Building on that idea, a gas powered Segway? <grin>

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  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Jun 15 16:47:06 2022
    On 15/6/22 16:02, Don Y wrote:
    On 6/14/2022 7:03 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 06/14/2022 06:22 PM, Don Y wrote:
    The biggest win is it gets you away from the wheel.  E.g., you could
    affix a
    bar magnet to the end of the cable-in-cable and detect it's rotation (to >>> whatever extent you desire) as well as using its motion to generate
    *power*
    for the circuit (esp with the ultra low power technologies now
    available;
    think about the tire-rubbing generators that used to power headlamps...)

    What a wondrous invention they were... All that aggro for a one
    candlepower headlamp. Somehow I associate those with the
    Sturmey-Archer three speed hubs.

    I suppose driving a generator that way is better than driving the
    bicycle with a 26cc motor in a similar way:

    http://bumblebeebolton.com/front_instructions.html

    I thought the concept might have been relegated to the trash bin of
    history but I've seen a similar design for a DIY low rent eBike.

    I've been looking for an "alternate" form of transportation for the
    little jaunts -- to the library, post office, etc.  Just a couple of
    miles, likely off-road.

    Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind.  But, none
    have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
    on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).

    Cargo bike? Or trike? Possibly electric?

    But, recently, I'm liking the idea of a small gas powered generator
    tucked in the battery compartment of my electric wheelchair (!).
    This would eliminate the maintenance issue of the batteries
    ($400/set) as well as increase the possible RELIABLE range of
    the chair.  (of course, you couldn't use it indoors but that's fine)

    Building on that idea, a gas powered Segway?  <grin>

    You could carry a genset on a cargo bike.

    Ch

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to dp@tgi-sci.com on Wed Jun 15 06:52:43 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 22:01:01 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <t8altd$uqm$1@dont-email.me>:
    The Hall sensors I have "in the drawer" are some with hysteresis though,
    they need such a magnet really close (within 1mm if not less) to work,
    would need some other kind but that should be the easiest part.
    But well, it looks I am not going to start the project any time soon.
    And I did download some biking app to the phone, this makes the
    project's prospects even more bleak...

    An other way would be a laser diode shining through the spikes and a photocell picking it up on the other side.
    Be careful not to burn out eyes of some kids.
    The acceleration sensor would work nice too,
    some code is on my site that uses a 6 axis accelerometer but not for speed.. math seems easy enough though.
    Did I not write code for a navigation system using only such accelerometers, yes,
    needed an oven, some uni redid the experiment .. its on Usenet..

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to joegwinn@comcast.net on Wed Jun 15 06:52:43 2022
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7ig0k1nidjn95mqbbg1@4ax.com>:

    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be
    solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
    brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    Just thinking, use a camera looking down
    The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
    Almost like a computah mouse...

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  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 15 10:29:30 2022
    On 14/06/2022 18:09, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

    <snipped>

    Hmmm, but will that work at really low speed (like when pushing the
    bike uphill)? It is an idea to do it this way (I did not even know the
    name of the method so the idea is more than welcome), yet what I was
    thinking was more in the line of changing some oscillation frequency
    (thus detecting the spokes also  "at DC").

    A former colleague used a clever method for an impeller type flow
    sensor. He used a small unshielded inductor with a parallel capacitor connected to a PIC pin. Set the pin to be an output, kick the LC with a
    pulse, then set the pin to be an input and count oscillations. In air,
    you get a few counts, near metal, you get fewer counts. I don't know
    details, but he was able to sample sufficiently quickly for it to work.

    My guess is that it wouldn't be practical over the clearance distance
    you'd need for a spoke, but it's a neat method.

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Jun 15 07:50:16 2022
    On 06/15/2022 12:02 AM, Don Y wrote:
    Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind. But, none
    have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
    on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).

    There are quite a few cargo bikes or if you already have a bike,
    trailers. A friend has a BOB Yak that worked out well. It's easy to
    disconnect if you don't need it and the single wheel means it tracks on
    the same path as the bike if you ride single track.

    The low cost solution would be looking for one of those child trailers
    at a yard sale.

    There are also bike panniers but you wind up repacking the groceries to
    get everything to fit. Two wheeled grocery shopping on either a bicycle
    or motorcycle tends to limit impulse purchases.

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  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Jun 15 07:18:07 2022
    On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 2:56:59 AM UTC-4, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 22:01:01 +0300) it happened Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote in <t8altd$uqm$1...@dont-email.me>:
    The Hall sensors I have "in the drawer" are some with hysteresis though, >they need such a magnet really close (within 1mm if not less) to work, >would need some other kind but that should be the easiest part.
    But well, it looks I am not going to start the project any time soon.
    And I did download some biking app to the phone, this makes the
    project's prospects even more bleak...

    An other way would be a laser diode shining through the spikes and a photocell picking it up on the other side.
    Be careful not to burn out eyes of some kids.
    The acceleration sensor would work nice too,
    some code is on my site that uses a 6 axis accelerometer but not for speed.. math seems easy enough though.
    Did I not write code for a navigation system using only such accelerometers, yes,
    needed an oven, some uni redid the experiment .. its on Usenet..

    Optics get dirty and stop working. They also are impacted by precipitation. No one wants an intermittent speed-o-meter.

    I think the clear winner in this contest is the playing car against the spokes.

    Actually, I think people have trivialized away the variable reluctance sensor. While the spoke may not be magnetic, it's no trouble adding a small piece of metal to the spoke or spoke nipple or even the hub. I believe spokes on most bikes are arranged
    to cross and form an X. The crossing point may be a good place to put the metal badge.

    --

    Rick C.

    --+ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    --+ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From bob prohaska@21:1/5 to dp@tgi-sci.com on Wed Jun 15 14:25:00 2022
    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.

    Can any of the commercially available bicycle odometer/speedometers
    use the output from a hub dynamo for measuring distance/speed? The
    Shimano DH3N72 gives, I think, 14 cycles per turn. Using a diode to
    half-wave rectify it would make 7 pulses per turn.

    Thanks for reading,

    bob prohaska


    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.


    ======================================================
    Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com ====================================================== http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/










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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Wed Jun 15 11:00:19 2022
    On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 06:52:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn ><joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7ig0k1nidjn95mqbbg1@4ax.com>:

    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be >>solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
    brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    Just thinking, use a camera looking down
    The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
    Almost like a computah mouse...

    Need to also block the view beyond those spokes, or nearby scenery can
    affect speed readings.

    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Wed Jun 15 08:33:44 2022
    On 6/15/2022 6:50 AM, rbowman wrote:
    On 06/15/2022 12:02 AM, Don Y wrote:
    Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind. But, none
    have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
    on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).

    There are quite a few cargo bikes or if you already have a bike, trailers. A friend has a BOB Yak that worked out well. It's easy to disconnect if you don't
    need it and the single wheel means it tracks on the same path as the bike if you ride single track.

    Bikes won't work well as I'd want to be able to take the "shortcuts"
    over dirt/gravel/grass. Something more "ATV-ish" is called for.
    Hence the Segway option. (The Segway "egg" looks do-able)

    [I can save half a mile on the trip to the library using "walkable"
    shortcuts]

    I also have to be wary of the laws regarding where you can operate
    said "conveyance". E.g., I don't think bicycles are allowed on sidewalks.
    And, the rules for ebikes might be different.

    OTOH, the wheelchair probably squeaks through the legalities in the
    most permissive ways. (and, I don't think there is anything that
    says the rider must NEED the wheelchair... just like the driver of
    a vehicle with disabled plates needn't be disabled!)

    The gas-powered genset might run afoul of "something", though...

    The low cost solution would be looking for one of those child trailers at a yard sale.

    There are also bike panniers but you wind up repacking the groceries to get everything to fit. Two wheeled grocery shopping on either a bicycle or motorcycle tends to limit impulse purchases.

    Years ago, I tried the bike approach. Driving on the roads is just too perilous. Having to cross 4 lanes of 45+MPH traffic several times on each "short trip" left my nerves jangled.

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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Wed Jun 15 11:45:56 2022
    On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 06:52:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn ><joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7ig0k1nidjn95mqbbg1@4ax.com>:

    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be >>solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
    brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    Just thinking, use a camera looking down
    The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
    Almost like a computah mouse...

    Second answer: Ignore spokes. Looking down at the street surface
    flying by? How does this work on featureless concrete or tarred
    blacktop? Or a painted surface?

    Or if it's raining or snowing?

    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 15 11:42:29 2022
    On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 20:03:12 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com>
    wrote:

    On 06/14/2022 06:22 PM, Don Y wrote:
    The biggest win is it gets you away from the wheel. E.g., you could
    affix a
    bar magnet to the end of the cable-in-cable and detect it's rotation (to
    whatever extent you desire) as well as using its motion to generate *power* >> for the circuit (esp with the ultra low power technologies now available;
    think about the tire-rubbing generators that used to power headlamps...)

    What a wondrous invention they were... All that aggro for a one
    candlepower headlamp.

    I had one of those generators as well. The drag from that generator
    was quite significant. And I could see better by ambient (street
    lamp) light. I went to using an ordinary flashlight to warn cars of
    my presence.


    Somehow I associate those with the Sturmey-Archer
    three speed hubs.

    A blast from the past. I got very good at adjusting and repairing
    them.

    It took me a year to figure out why, when pedaling strongly the foot
    crank would abruptly come loose, free-rotate a half-turn or so, and
    then reconnect, as if nothing had happened.

    It turned out that the bronze C-ring that expanded against the inside
    of the hub to brake the wheel had become worn enough to allow the four
    drive pins to pull out of their sockets under heavy load, rotate
    sliding un till managing to drop back into the same sockets, clocked
    but undamaged. Replacing the C-ring solved the problem.

    Sturmey-Archer still exists, and has all the old documentation online.

    .<http://www.sturmey-archerheritage.com/index.php?page=history&type=technic&era=1>


    I suppose driving a generator that way is better than driving the
    bicycle with a 26cc motor in a similar way:

    http://bumblebeebolton.com/front_instructions.html

    I thought the concept might have been relegated to the trash bin of
    history but I've seen a similar design for a DIY low rent eBike.

    I recall similar things from the 1960s as well. Was never tempted. I
    bet they sounded like an infuriated bumblebee, only higher pitched.
    And LOUD.

    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Don@21:1/5 to Joerg on Wed Jun 15 16:00:45 2022
    Addendum: My own links need to be read by me /before/ they're posted. It
    seems GPS sensors replaced magnets.

    Joerg wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.


    There are at least two reasons for the magnet. One is that it triggers a
    reed contact on the other side. This allows the whole speedometer to not
    have to be turned off by hand for battery conservation. It simply does
    that on its own and when the reed switch changes state again it turns
    itself back on. So you can just park your bike and walk away. Well,
    maybe not in a large city because then it gets stolen.

    The second reason is that this system works down to very low speeds.
    There isn't actually a lower limit and it will still clock the miles correctly.


    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.


    I can already smell an engineer's solution coming up. Huge sensor,
    multiple bus cables, a laptop mounted to the handlebar ... :-)

    My own mountain cycling takes place year around. Throughout the winter:

    <https://crcomp.net/arts/spintale/winter.png>

    as well as the summer:

    <https://crcomp.net/arts/spintale/summer.png>

    Here's a inverted perspective image of the outcrop show by the second
    picture. It's taken from the road's point-of-view. The outcrop is the
    smaller of the two shown. It appears to the left of the larger outcrop,
    on the left summit. The photo gives you an idea of the mountain trail's inaccessibility:

    <https://crcomp.net/arts/spintale/invert.png>

    My MP3 mod makes spins so much more enjoyable these days:

    <https://crcomp.net/mp3mod/index.php>

    Anyhow, long story short, here's 15 sensors:

    <https://heavy.com/sports/top-best-speed-cadence-sensors-bike-garmin-edge-zwift-computer/>

    The frames of some bicycles accommodate optional bolt-on sensors:

    <https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/02/look-at-trekbontrager-frame-integrated.html>

    Danke,

    --
    Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
    There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
    She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

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  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Wed Jun 15 09:04:59 2022
    On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 11:46:09 AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 06:52:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn ><joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7i...@4ax.com>:

    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be >>solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
    brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    Just thinking, use a camera looking down
    The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
    Almost like a computah mouse...
    Second answer: Ignore spokes. Looking down at the street surface
    flying by? How does this work on featureless concrete or tarred
    blacktop? Or a painted surface?

    Or if it's raining or snowing?

    I once had a mouse that would work on glass! Images have a lot more information than you might think. Nothing is completely uniform.

    --

    Rick C.

    -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Don on Wed Jun 15 09:39:37 2022
    On 6/15/2022 9:24 AM, Don wrote:
    Addendum: My own links need to be read by me /before/ they're posted. It seems GPS sensors replaced magnets.

    Addendum 2: It's unknown what role, if any, GPS plays with bicycle cadence/speedometer sensors. May your own Inet search discover reality,
    as my own Inet searches for quick answers are now a thing of the past.

    GPS-based "distance traveled" figures tend to overestimate the
    actual distance traveled. Even a beginner is taught to always
    reference measurements from a common point (instead of stacking
    measurement errors).

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  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to joegwinn@comcast.net on Wed Jun 15 16:39:37 2022
    On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Jun 2022 11:45:56 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <dhvjahhi98bc6se5ft4rmphtc0co0kbq8b@4ax.com>:

    On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 06:52:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn >><joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7ig0k1nidjn95mqbbg1@4ax.com>: >>
    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be >>>solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
    brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    Just thinking, use a camera looking down
    The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
    Almost like a computah mouse...

    Second answer: Ignore spokes. Looking down at the street surface
    flying by? How does this work on featureless concrete or tarred
    blacktop? Or a painted surface?

    Concrete is not that 'featureless' at all.
    As to the software, if you look up any open source mpegX encoding (X for 1, 2, whatever have you these days)
    you will see it, among other things, calculates a motion vector, remember using that long long time ago...
    Given fixed frames per second (30 or 25 depending on where you are), lens angle and hight,
    calibration would only take a short time.
    I use my puter mice on a white table and it never had a problem.
    Maybe shine a light or laser down to the ground.
    Its just a possible solution, not saying its better than other ones, but fun for experimenting.



    Or if it's raining or snowing?

    I do not go biking in weather like that, I look at the rain-rader here first for what's coming.

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  • From a a@21:1/5 to Ricky on Wed Jun 15 09:19:07 2022
    On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 18:05:04 UTC+2, Ricky wrote:
    On Wednesday, June 15, 2022 at 11:46:09 AM UTC-4, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 06:52:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn ><joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7i...@4ax.com>:

    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be >>solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive >>brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    Just thinking, use a camera looking down
    The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
    Almost like a computah mouse...
    Second answer: Ignore spokes. Looking down at the street surface
    flying by? How does this work on featureless concrete or tarred
    blacktop? Or a painted surface?

    Or if it's raining or snowing?
    I once had a mouse that would work on glass! Images have a lot more information than you might think. Nothing is completely uniform.

    --

    Rick C.

    -+- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -+- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209
    optical/laser mouse as movement sensor or local LIDAR is still a hot item, loved by developers.


    GPS smartphones replaced old bike computers 10-15 years ago
    and there is no return

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don@21:1/5 to Joerg on Wed Jun 15 16:24:27 2022
    Addendum: My own links need to be read by me /before/ they're posted. It
    seems GPS sensors replaced magnets.

    Addendum 2: It's unknown what role, if any, GPS plays with bicycle cadence/speedometer sensors. May your own Inet search discover reality,
    as my own Inet searches for quick answers are now a thing of the past.

    Joerg wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.


    There are at least two reasons for the magnet. One is that it triggers a
    reed contact on the other side. This allows the whole speedometer to not
    have to be turned off by hand for battery conservation. It simply does
    that on its own and when the reed switch changes state again it turns
    itself back on. So you can just park your bike and walk away. Well,
    maybe not in a large city because then it gets stolen.

    The second reason is that this system works down to very low speeds.
    There isn't actually a lower limit and it will still clock the miles correctly.


    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.


    I can already smell an engineer's solution coming up. Huge sensor,
    multiple bus cables, a laptop mounted to the handlebar ... :-)

    My own mountain cycling takes place year around. Throughout the winter:

    <https://crcomp.net/arts/spintale/winter.png>

    as well as the summer:

    <https://crcomp.net/arts/spintale/summer.png>

    Here's a inverted perspective image of the outcrop show by the second
    picture. It's taken from the road's point-of-view. The outcrop is the
    smaller of the two shown. It appears to the left of the larger outcrop,
    on the left summit. The photo gives you an idea of the mountain trail's inaccessibility:

    <https://crcomp.net/arts/spintale/invert.png>

    My MP3 mod makes spins so much more enjoyable these days:

    <https://crcomp.net/mp3mod/index.php>

    Anyhow, long story short, FWIW, here's a 15 sensors link returned on the
    first page of an Inet search:

    <https://heavy.com/sports/top-best-speed-cadence-sensors-bike-garmin-edge-zwift-computer/>

    The frames of some bicycles accommodate optional bolt-on sensors:

    <https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/02/look-at-trekbontrager-frame-integrated.html>

    Danke,

    --
    Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
    There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
    She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Clive Arthur on Wed Jun 15 19:52:41 2022
    On 6/15/2022 12:29, Clive Arthur wrote:
    On 14/06/2022 18:09, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

    <snipped>

    Hmmm, but will that work at really low speed (like when pushing the
    bike uphill)? It is an idea to do it this way (I did not even know the
    name of the method so the idea is more than welcome), yet what I was
    thinking was more in the line of changing some oscillation frequency
    (thus detecting the spokes also  "at DC").

    A former colleague used a clever method for an impeller type flow
    sensor.  He used a small unshielded inductor with a parallel capacitor connected to a PIC pin.  Set the pin to be an output, kick the LC with a pulse, then set the pin to be an input and count oscillations.  In air,
    you get a few counts, near metal, you get fewer counts.  I don't know details, but he was able to sample sufficiently quickly for it to work.

    My guess is that it wouldn't be practical over the clearance distance
    you'd need for a spoke, but it's a neat method.


    The method is neat indeed. I think I could make that work, I'd say a 3mm maximum distance from the spokes is achievable mechanically. Hmm. Might
    not give up the idea yet after all. Especially after trying out so far
    3 apps for the phone, each useless for one reason or another.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Wed Jun 15 10:03:30 2022
    On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 18:44:04 UTC+2, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Wed, 15 Jun 2022 11:45:56 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in <dhvjahhi98bc6se5f...@4ax.com>:
    On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 06:52:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonSt...@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn >><joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7i...@4ax.com>:

    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be >>>solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive >>>brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    Just thinking, use a camera looking down
    The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
    Almost like a computah mouse...

    Second answer: Ignore spokes. Looking down at the street surface
    flying by? How does this work on featureless concrete or tarred
    blacktop? Or a painted surface?
    Concrete is not that 'featureless' at all.
    As to the software, if you look up any open source mpegX encoding (X for 1, 2, whatever have you these days)
    you will see it, among other things, calculates a motion vector, remember using that long long time ago...
    Given fixed frames per second (30 or 25 depending on where you are), lens angle and hight,
    calibration would only take a short time.
    I use my puter mice on a white table and it never had a problem.
    Maybe shine a light or laser down to the ground.
    Its just a possible solution, not saying its better than other ones, but fun for experimenting.
    Or if it's raining or snowing?
    I do not go biking in weather like that, I look at the rain-rader here first for what's coming.
    excellent
    laser/optical mouse can be easily turned into $10 3D LIDAR scanner

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Jun 15 10:01:25 2022
    On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 18:39:57 UTC+2, Don Y wrote:
    On 6/15/2022 9:24 AM, Don wrote:
    Addendum: My own links need to be read by me /before/ they're posted. It seems GPS sensors replaced magnets.

    Addendum 2: It's unknown what role, if any, GPS plays with bicycle cadence/speedometer sensors. May your own Inet search discover reality,
    as my own Inet searches for quick answers are now a thing of the past.
    GPS-based "distance traveled" figures tend to overestimate the
    actual distance traveled. Even a beginner is taught to always
    reference measurements from a common point (instead of stacking
    measurement errors).
    you are not correct

    you can easily switch GPS receiver in your smartphone into exact RTK GPS mode to get 20 cm accuracy

    so bike computer is an ancient stuff, no more hot

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Jun 15 20:08:32 2022
    On 6/15/2022 9:02, Don Y wrote:
    ......

    I've been looking for an "alternate" form of transportation for the
    little jaunts -- to the library, post office, etc.  Just a couple of
    miles, likely off-road.

    Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind.  But, none
    have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
    on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).

    I manage to carry a 5-6 kg backpack biking from the nearby (4-5 km)
    shops. And the way back is uphill (not dramatic though). If it is
    reasonably flat in your area you will just need a backpack similar
    to mine - Lucy gave it to me when I got the bike, she had used it
    years ago when she was walking up the mountains. Very light but
    strong enough.


    But, recently, I'm liking the idea of a small gas powered generator
    tucked in the battery compartment of my electric wheelchair (!).
    This would eliminate the maintenance issue of the batteries
    ($400/set) as well as increase the possible RELIABLE range of
    the chair.  (of course, you couldn't use it indoors but that's fine)

    Building on that idea, a gas powered Segway?  <grin> >

    I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
    motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
    to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
    (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
    would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to a a on Wed Jun 15 10:19:26 2022
    On 6/15/2022 10:01 AM, a a wrote:
    On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 18:39:57 UTC+2, Don Y wrote:
    On 6/15/2022 9:24 AM, Don wrote:
    Addendum: My own links need to be read by me /before/ they're posted. It >>> seems GPS sensors replaced magnets.

    Addendum 2: It's unknown what role, if any, GPS plays with bicycle
    cadence/speedometer sensors. May your own Inet search discover reality,
    as my own Inet searches for quick answers are now a thing of the past.
    GPS-based "distance traveled" figures tend to overestimate the
    actual distance traveled. Even a beginner is taught to always
    reference measurements from a common point (instead of stacking
    measurement errors).
    you are not correct

    you can easily switch GPS receiver in your smartphone into exact RTK GPS mode to get 20 cm accuracy

    So, I can move 8 inches to the left of where I am and your app will tell me that I've (1) moved, (2) which direction I've moved, (3) that it was 8 inches?

    Wow, so you can RELY on having a good constellation available to you,
    at all times, in all places? What world do YOU live in?

    <https://www.dcrainmaker.com/2011/12/why-new-york-times-gps-running-article.html>

    <https://spectrum.ieee.org/why_every_gps_overestimates_distance_traveled>

    <http://gpsinformation.net/articles/tripdistanceerror.htm>

    And, of course, your statement applies to ALL smartphones, right?

    so bike computer is an ancient stuff, no more hot

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Wed Jun 15 13:20:23 2022
    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Wed, 15 Jun 2022 06:52:43 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn
    <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7ig0k1nidjn95mqbbg1@4ax.com>:

    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be
    solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
    brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    Just thinking, use a camera looking down
    The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
    Almost like a computah mouse...

    Need to also block the view beyond those spokes, or nearby scenery can
    affect speed readings.

    Joe Gwinn


    Trying to keep any optical surface clean enough is a challenge. A
    theremin would be a fun way to do it, if not necessarily the most practical.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From a a@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Wed Jun 15 10:24:12 2022
    On Wednesday, 15 June 2022 at 19:08:41 UTC+2, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 6/15/2022 9:02, Don Y wrote:
    ......

    I've been looking for an "alternate" form of transportation for the
    little jaunts -- to the library, post office, etc. Just a couple of
    miles, likely off-road.

    Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind. But, none
    have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
    on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).
    I manage to carry a 5-6 kg backpack biking from the nearby (4-5 km)
    shops. And the way back is uphill (not dramatic though). If it is
    reasonably flat in your area you will just need a backpack similar
    to mine - Lucy gave it to me when I got the bike, she had used it
    years ago when she was walking up the mountains. Very light but
    strong enough.

    But, recently, I'm liking the idea of a small gas powered generator
    tucked in the battery compartment of my electric wheelchair (!).
    This would eliminate the maintenance issue of the batteries
    ($400/set) as well as increase the possible RELIABLE range of
    the chair. (of course, you couldn't use it indoors but that's fine)

    Building on that idea, a gas powered Segway? <grin> >
    I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
    motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
    to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
    (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
    would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.
    by global legislation
    you can't turn your bike into scooter

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Joerg on Wed Jun 15 13:24:40 2022
    Joerg wrote:
    On 6/14/22 10:16 AM, John Doe wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I have
    been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
    indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the
    MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
    placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive >>> sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive sensors >>> than I have.

    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these days,
    at least here in America.


    Then, later in the afternoon during an all-day ride, there will be a low battery warning, followed by a dark screen.

    Why do we always have to make things so complicated? When I grew up speedometers didn't even need any electrical power. They just worked.


    And then pissed transmission oil on your pant cuffs when the oil seal
    failed. ;)

    Plus the nanny software didn't prevent one from putting the top down
    while rolling, even turning round in the driveway. :(

    I really wish there were a "nanny disable" button next to the one for
    traction control.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 15 10:41:39 2022
    On 6/15/2022 10:08 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 6/15/2022 9:02, Don Y wrote:
    ......

    I've been looking for an "alternate" form of transportation for the
    little jaunts -- to the library, post office, etc. Just a couple of
    miles, likely off-road.

    Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind. But, none
    have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
    on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).

    I manage to carry a 5-6 kg backpack biking from the nearby (4-5 km)

    Yeah, that would work. Often, I'm not carrying anything more than
    something that needs to be mailed (at the post office) or returned
    (to the library). So, getting my body mass from here to there is
    the bigger issue.

    [I'm not afraid of the exercise but the time required can be
    annoying. E.g., at 4MPH, it takes me a little over an hour
    to do the 4.5mi round trip to the library (using shortcuts
    accessible to a pedestrian). OTOH, driving that same distance
    takes almost half an hour as the route is slightly longer,
    there are traffic signals to contend with, the car has to be
    parked and locked up, etc. So, I "discount" the time spent
    walking by the time it would take by car and figure I got
    an extra half hour of exercise "for free" -- in terms of
    time expended]

    shops. And the way back is uphill (not dramatic though).

    The trip to the library is a long SLOW climb. My pace *going* is
    a fair bit slower than returning (despite the fact that I'm more
    tired on the return trip).

    I've also noticed this within the neighborhood; traveling in
    one direction requires more exertion than the other. The differences
    in elevation aren't big but they take a toll on progress.

    If it is
    reasonably flat in your area you will just need a backpack similar
    to mine - Lucy gave it to me when I got the bike, she had used it
    years ago when she was walking up the mountains. Very light but
    strong enough.

    My purchases are usually tied to a trip that had some other goal.
    E.g., stopping in at the grocery store adjacent to the post
    office for a few small items. Or, the hardware store on the
    way BACK from the post office. Ditto at the library. I'd
    not be inclined to buy anything heavy or bulky -- or *frozen*
    (as it would *thaw* on the trip).

    On a bicycle, I've carried the (one) bag in my hand while
    also piloting the bike. It's not that difficult. But, avoiding
    traffic is a challenge (pedestrian and cyclist "accidents" are
    fairly common, here. Often fatal -- though rarely for the driver
    of the CAR! :-/ )

    But, recently, I'm liking the idea of a small gas powered generator
    tucked in the battery compartment of my electric wheelchair (!).
    This would eliminate the maintenance issue of the batteries
    ($400/set) as well as increase the possible RELIABLE range of
    the chair. (of course, you couldn't use it indoors but that's fine)

    Building on that idea, a gas powered Segway? <grin> >

    I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
    motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
    to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
    (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
    would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.

    I think the motor will propel you but doesn't have enough torque to
    get you moving from a dead stop (?). We also have a lot of gas-powered
    bicycle assist units in use, here as a cheap form of transportation for
    folks who don't want the cost/inconvenience of a car (e.g., students).
    There is no licensing requirement nor requirement for insurance as
    there is with a car.

    But, they need to be driven on roadways. So, the marginally safer
    use of sidewalks is out of the question. And, in many places, there
    are no sidewalks so you're riding in the ~3 ft shoulder of the roadway.
    (having cars pass within feet of you at 50 MPH is a disconcerting
    feeling! "I wonder if the next guy has his eyes on the road -- or
    on his phone???")

    [Folks who ride recumbant bikes often have a tall "flag" attached
    tot he bike frame to increase visibility. I'm not sure I'd rely on
    that as a protective measure! :< ]

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Clive Arthur on Wed Jun 15 13:56:46 2022
    Clive Arthur wrote:
    On 14/06/2022 18:09, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:

    <snipped>

    Hmmm, but will that work at really low speed (like when pushing the
    bike uphill)? It is an idea to do it this way (I did not even know the
    name of the method so the idea is more than welcome), yet what I was
    thinking was more in the line of changing some oscillation frequency
    (thus detecting the spokes also  "at DC").

    A former colleague used a clever method for an impeller type flow
    sensor.  He used a small unshielded inductor with a parallel capacitor connected to a PIC pin.  Set the pin to be an output, kick the LC with a pulse, then set the pin to be an input and count oscillations.  In air,
    you get a few counts, near metal, you get fewer counts.  I don't know details, but he was able to sample sufficiently quickly for it to work.

    My guess is that it wouldn't be practical over the clearance distance
    you'd need for a spoke, but it's a neat method.


    A digital theremin!

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Jun 15 18:04:49 2022
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
    On 6/15/2022 9:24 AM, Don wrote:
    Addendum: My own links need to be read by me /before/ they're posted. It
    seems GPS sensors replaced magnets.

    Addendum 2: It's unknown what role, if any, GPS plays with bicycle
    cadence/speedometer sensors. May your own Inet search discover reality,
    as my own Inet searches for quick answers are now a thing of the past.

    GPS-based "distance traveled" figures tend to overestimate the
    actual distance traveled. Even a beginner is taught to always
    reference measurements from a common point (instead of stacking
    measurement errors).

    FWIW, my bicycle is not electric. (Apparently some or all of those 15
    cadence sensors cited by me earlier pertain to electric bicycles??) The
    whole idea behind my spins is to get a good workout.

    People sometimes ask me about my bicycle's fat tires. The tires are
    fatter than those found on small motorcycles. They help me navigate
    through light, dry snow. Fat tires are also ideal to yield three feet
    over on the gravelly shoulder of the paved highway through the foothills
    when a big pickup truck with extra wide mirrors screams past. If you
    look closely at the left handlebar of my bike, you can spot a rear-view
    mirror to keep me situationally aware of things going on behind my back.

    My bike needs rear taillights and turn indicators more than a cadence
    counter. The bike's NiteRider headlight battery ought to provide plenty
    of juice as-is. But the rear lights will probably end up as DIY for lack
    of any viable alternatives.

    Danke,

    --
    Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
    There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
    She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to Don on Wed Jun 15 12:07:29 2022
    On 6/15/2022 11:04 AM, Don wrote:
    Don Y <blockedofcourse@foo.invalid> wrote:
    On 6/15/2022 9:24 AM, Don wrote:
    Addendum: My own links need to be read by me /before/ they're posted. It >>> seems GPS sensors replaced magnets.

    Addendum 2: It's unknown what role, if any, GPS plays with bicycle
    cadence/speedometer sensors. May your own Inet search discover reality,
    as my own Inet searches for quick answers are now a thing of the past.

    GPS-based "distance traveled" figures tend to overestimate the
    actual distance traveled. Even a beginner is taught to always
    reference measurements from a common point (instead of stacking
    measurement errors).

    FWIW, my bicycle is not electric. (Apparently some or all of those 15
    cadence sensors cited by me earlier pertain to electric bicycles??) The
    whole idea behind my spins is to get a good workout.

    I'm looking for options when I *don't* want a workout. There's a
    difference between "going out for some chores" and "going out
    for some execise". The former has a (immediate) purpose while the
    latter's purpose is more long term.

    People sometimes ask me about my bicycle's fat tires. The tires are
    fatter than those found on small motorcycles. They help me navigate
    through light, dry snow. Fat tires are also ideal to yield three feet
    over on the gravelly shoulder of the paved highway through the foothills
    when a big pickup truck with extra wide mirrors screams past. If you
    look closely at the left handlebar of my bike, you can spot a rear-view mirror to keep me situationally aware of things going on behind my back.

    Yes, my wheelchair's drive wheels are good enough for packed dirt
    and firm lawns (and asphalt, concrete, etc.). But, tend to "spin"
    in the decomposed granite that is common in place of lawns, here.

    I'll mount more aggressive wheels if I take this approach:

    <https://www.grizzlycentral.com/attachments/img_20161231_145627-jpg.42386/>

    (Disabled) Folks who really go into this sort of thing can get
    really aggressive in their solutions:

    <https://i.pinimg.com/736x/b1/c4/b9/b1c4b9ede3aeeee5e134762c980db6d0.jpg>

    <http://www.automotivenews.co.nz/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/10497961_526645007463753_6858744401557386684_o.jpg>

    <https://bloximages.chicago2.vip.townnews.com/suncommercial.com/content/tncms/assets/v3/editorial/b/fb/bfbbc882-a630-11e3-ba40-0019bb2963f4/531a21b2150ce.image.jpg?resize=400%2C240>

    But, they are truly looking for ATV-style solutions to ATV-style
    problems. I'm just looking for a non-driving, non-walking way
    to cover reasonably short distances (I'd never rely on walking
    OR this sort of kludge if I wanted to travel a dozen miles)

    My bike needs rear taillights and turn indicators more than a cadence counter. The bike's NiteRider headlight battery ought to provide plenty
    of juice as-is. But the rear lights will probably end up as DIY for lack
    of any viable alternatives.

    My wheelchair already has headlights, tail lights and turn signals.
    And a horn! :-/

    And (I think) a BT tie-in for "remote control". Battery isn't a problem
    as there's ~100 pounds of them under the seat!

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Jun 15 21:43:58 2022
    On 06/15/2022 09:33 AM, Don Y wrote:

    Bikes won't work well as I'd want to be able to take the "shortcuts"
    over dirt/gravel/grass. Something more "ATV-ish" is called for.
    Hence the Segway option. (The Segway "egg" looks do-able)

    https://www.montaguebikes.com/product/paratrooper/

    Any mountain bike will be at home off the pavement. I've got a Montague
    because I wanted a full-sized folding bike I can put in the back of the
    Yaris. Bike racks and hatchbacks don't play well together.

    I also have to be wary of the laws regarding where you can operate
    said "conveyance". E.g., I don't think bicycles are allowed on sidewalks. And, the rules for ebikes might be different.

    I don't think sidewalk riding is illegal here but I wonder about the
    people who ride on sidewalks or the shoulder of the road when there's a perfectly good bike path six feet away.

    Ebikes are up in the air. They're banned on quite a few trails but
    there's no blanket prohibition. There's an attempt to distinguish
    between electric assist and outright electric drive.

    Years ago, I tried the bike approach. Driving on the roads is just too perilous. Having to cross 4 lanes of 45+MPH traffic several times on each "short trip" left my nerves jangled.

    Forty tears ago I'd ride on Boston streets. Over the years I gotten much
    more paranoid. I gave up a favorite route because it's a narrow two lane
    road with no shoulder. The fog line is the edge of the pavement and
    there's only a ditch past it. Most people are good but it is frequented
    by F350 dualies pulling stock trailers.

    The other route is on a very wide shoulder for about three miles and
    then a bike/pedestrian path.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Wed Jun 15 21:53:19 2022
    On 06/15/2022 09:42 AM, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    Somehow I associate those with the Sturmey-Archer
    three speed hubs.
    A blast from the past. I got very good at adjusting and repairing
    them.

    It took me a year to figure out why, when pedaling strongly the foot
    crank would abruptly come loose, free-rotate a half-turn or so, and
    then reconnect, as if nothing had happened.

    I was very please when I moved from a balloon tire coaster brake model
    to my first 'English' bicycle. I bought it used and abused with my 8th
    grade graduation presents. I learned quite a bit about springs, cogs,
    pins, and the other internals.

    After that experience there was close to a 20 year gap before I bought a
    10 speed. Derailleurs have their moments but nothing like a SA.

    I recall similar things from the 1960s as well. Was never tempted. I
    bet they sounded like an infuriated bumblebee, only higher pitched.
    And LOUD.


    I was tempted but moved on to a real motorcycle, a '55 panhead. It was
    loud but not to be mistaken for a bumblebee.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don on Wed Jun 15 22:04:53 2022
    On 06/15/2022 12:04 PM, Don wrote:
    People sometimes ask me about my bicycle's fat tires. The tires are
    fatter than those found on small motorcycles. They help me navigate
    through light, dry snow. Fat tires are also ideal to yield three feet
    over on the gravelly shoulder of the paved highway through the foothills
    when a big pickup truck with extra wide mirrors screams past. If you
    look closely at the left handlebar of my bike, you can spot a rear-view mirror to keep me situationally aware of things going on behind my back.

    They must be a joy to pedal. Some I've seen are actually bigger than the
    front tire on my DR650 and that has a 650cc thumper to do the pedaling.

    Definite yes on the rear view. I have one bike without a mirror and I
    keep glancing at the hole where it's supposed to be. I've never come to
    terms with those mirrors mounted on your glasses.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Wed Jun 15 22:07:51 2022
    On 06/15/2022 11:08 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 6/15/2022 9:02, Don Y wrote:
    ......

    I've been looking for an "alternate" form of transportation for the
    little jaunts -- to the library, post office, etc. Just a couple of
    miles, likely off-road.

    Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind. But, none
    have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
    on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).

    I manage to carry a 5-6 kg backpack biking from the nearby (4-5 km)
    shops. And the way back is uphill (not dramatic though). If it is
    reasonably flat in your area you will just need a backpack similar
    to mine - Lucy gave it to me when I got the bike, she had used it
    years ago when she was walking up the mountains. Very light but
    strong enough.


    But, recently, I'm liking the idea of a small gas powered generator
    tucked in the battery compartment of my electric wheelchair (!).
    This would eliminate the maintenance issue of the batteries
    ($400/set) as well as increase the possible RELIABLE range of
    the chair. (of course, you couldn't use it indoors but that's fine)

    Building on that idea, a gas powered Segway? <grin> >

    I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
    motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
    to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
    (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
    would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.

    Some do not require any pedaling. Locally they're trying to find a way
    to legally differentiate between the two.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don Y on Wed Jun 15 22:10:19 2022
    On 06/15/2022 11:41 AM, Don Y wrote:
    n 6/15/2022 10:08 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 6/15/2022 9:02, Don Y wrote:
    ......

    I've been looking for an "alternate" form of transportation for the
    little jaunts -- to the library, post office, etc. Just a couple of
    miles, likely off-road.

    Things like bicycle, Segway, one-wheels, etc. come to mind. But, none
    have really checked all the boxes (e.g., carrying a bag of groceries
    on a bike or Segway is really not ideal).

    I manage to carry a 5-6 kg backpack biking from the nearby (4-5 km)

    Yeah, that would work. Often, I'm not carrying anything more than
    something that needs to be mailed (at the post office) or returned
    (to the library). So, getting my body mass from here to there is
    the bigger issue.

    I tacoed a wheel while carry groceries in a backpack. Not a good idea,
    getting slammed with a few cans of tunafish.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don on Wed Jun 15 21:56:00 2022
    On 06/15/2022 10:24 AM, Don wrote:
    My own mountain cycling takes place year around. Throughout the winter:

    <https://crcomp.net/arts/spintale/winter.png>

    Do you run studs?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John Dope on Thu Jun 16 04:20:50 2022
    John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t8aiai$34s$1@dont-email.me:

    On Android? Can anybody name one such Android app (with a decent
    rating) that DOESN'T work off-line (at least after you have paid
    the 1 or $2 for it)? There are plenty of hiking apps, obviously
    all of them work off-line.


    There are a lot of games that do not work offline for obvious
    reasons.

    Cant play Euchre with a worldwide set of opponents offline.

    D'Oh! John Dope is not very bright.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Don Y@21:1/5 to rbowman on Wed Jun 15 23:35:06 2022
    On 6/15/2022 8:43 PM, rbowman wrote:
    On 06/15/2022 09:33 AM, Don Y wrote:

    Bikes won't work well as I'd want to be able to take the "shortcuts"
    over dirt/gravel/grass. Something more "ATV-ish" is called for.
    Hence the Segway option. (The Segway "egg" looks do-able)

    https://www.montaguebikes.com/product/paratrooper/

    Any mountain bike will be at home off the pavement. I've got a Montague because
    I wanted a full-sized folding bike I can put in the back of the Yaris. Bike racks and hatchbacks don't play well together.

    Bike relies heavily on rider. My body is no longer as "pliable"
    as it used to be, making reaction times a significant issue to
    ridership.

    I also have to be wary of the laws regarding where you can operate
    said "conveyance". E.g., I don't think bicycles are allowed on sidewalks. >> And, the rules for ebikes might be different.

    I don't think sidewalk riding is illegal here but I wonder about the people who
    ride on sidewalks or the shoulder of the road when there's a perfectly good bike path six feet away.

    Bike paths, for the most part, run along the washes; a few in town but they share the pavement with vehicles (which is where bikes are supposed to ride).

    Here, cities have final authority over regulating bikes. Tucson prohibits riding bikes on sidewalks (unless posted otherwise). Other localities can
    set their own restrictions/permissions.

    Ebikes are up in the air. They're banned on quite a few trails but there's no blanket prohibition. There's an attempt to distinguish between electric assist
    and outright electric drive.

    eBikes (of all kinds) and "motorized bikes" are treated like bicycles wrt sidewalk riding. There are some distinctions (Watts or cc's) that allow for the bike to be classed as a "scooter"/moped which just makes it harder
    to think of it as suitable for sidewalk use.

    Wheelchairs are deliberately accommodated on sidewalks with specifications
    as to the slope of the on/off ramps, "texture" to alert users that they
    are entering/exiting the roadway, etc.

    I'm sure electric wheelchairs are classed the same as regular wheelchairs. There's the possibility that some narrow-minded cop might consider a gas-generator powered electric wheelchair to be considered a "motor bike"
    but I suspect that wouldn't hold up in court (there is nothing that
    states HOW the power is sourced)

    I suspect Segways would be classed as ebikes, if the statutes were
    parsed carefully.

    Years ago, I tried the bike approach. Driving on the roads is just too
    perilous. Having to cross 4 lanes of 45+MPH traffic several times on each >> "short trip" left my nerves jangled.

    Forty tears ago I'd ride on Boston streets. Over the years I gotten much more paranoid. I gave up a favorite route because it's a narrow two lane road with no shoulder. The fog line is the edge of the pavement and there's only a ditch
    past it. Most people are good but it is frequented by F350 dualies pulling stock trailers.

    The other route is on a very wide shoulder for about three miles and then a bike/pedestrian path.

    When I was younger, traffic wouldn't bother me. I'd ride from my place in Medford, down Mystic Valley/Alewife Brook/Fresh Pond -Parkways to pick up take-out at Big Joyce Chen's -- navigating the delightful 55MPH rotaries
    along the way (talk about hair-raising!).

    Or, down Mass Ave to school, crossing Harvard Sq "the wrong way" to cut a block off the trip.

    I was more "nimble" on the bike than on foot. Now, the reverse is the case
    (I can get my body out of harms way a lot easier than I'd be able to get
    it AND a bike out!)

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc on Thu Jun 16 12:51:18 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    Typical idiotic irrelevant response from Always Wrong...

    --
    DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org wrote:

    Path: eternal-september.org!reader02.eternal-september.org!aioe.org!5U2ooNuM5UP0Ynf/GmOnCg.user.46.165.242.91.POSTED!not-for-mail
    From: DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadence.org
    Newsgroups: sci.electronics.design
    Subject: Re: Spoke sensor for bicycle
    Date: Thu, 16 Jun 2022 04:20:50 -0000 (UTC)
    Organization: Aioe.org NNTP Server
    Message-ID: <t8eb32$1448$1@gioia.aioe.org>
    References: <t8aapr$ab6$1@dont-email.me> <t8afpb$t21$6@dont-email.me> <c5ca6563-7e71-4ec9-b167-5ffb2b3482e6n@googlegroups.com> <t8aiai$34s$1@dont-email.me>
    Injection-Info: gioia.aioe.org; logging-data="37000"; posting-host="5U2ooNuM5UP0Ynf/GmOnCg.user.gioia.aioe.org"; mail-complaints-to="abuse@aioe.org";
    User-Agent: Xnews/5.04.25
    X-Notice: Filtered by postfilter v. 0.9.2
    Xref: reader02.eternal-september.org sci.electronics.design:671764

    John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t8aiai$34s$1@dont-email.me:

    On Android? Can anybody name one such Android app (with a decent
    rating) that DOESN'T work off-line (at least after you have paid
    the 1 or $2 for it)? There are plenty of hiking apps, obviously
    all of them work off-line.


    There are a lot of games that do not work offline for obvious
    reasons.

    Cant play Euchre with a worldwide set of opponents offline.

    D'Oh! John Dope is not very bright.



    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Edward Hernandez@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 16 12:56:08 2022
    XPost: free.spam

    In message-id <t6nt3e$7bp$3@dont-email.me> (http://al.howardknight.net/?ID=165357273000) posted Thu, 26 May 2022
    12:50:54 -0000 (UTC) John Dope stated:

    Always Wrong, the utterly foulmouthed group idiot, adding absolutely
    NOTHING but insults to this thread, as usual...

    Yet, since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope's post ratio
    to USENET (**) has been 59.3% of its posts contributing "nothing except insults" to USENET.

    ** Since Wed, 5 Jan 2022 04:10:38 -0000 (UTC) John Dope has posted at
    least 1785 articles to USENET. Of which 173 have been pure insults and
    885 have been John Dope "troll format" postings.

    The John Dope troll stated the following in message-id <sdhn7c$pkp$4@dont-email.me>:

    The troll doesn't even know how to format a USENET post...

    And the John Dope troll stated the following in message-id <sg3kr7$qt5$1@dont-email.me>:

    The reason Bozo cannot figure out how to get Google to keep from
    breaking its lines in inappropriate places is because Bozo is
    CLUELESS...

    And yet, the clueless John Dope troll has continued to post incorrectly formatted USENET articles that are devoid of content (latest example on
    Thu, 16 Jun 2022 12:51:18 -0000 (UTC) in message-id <t8f906$n4h$3@dont-email.me>).

    NOBODY likes the John Doe troll's contentless spam.

    This posting is a public service announcement for any google groups
    readers who happen by to point out that Troll Doe does not even follow
    the rules it uses to troll other posters.

    zT5LYfOE1c7c

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Don@21:1/5 to rbowman on Thu Jun 16 15:28:31 2022
    rbowman wrote:
    Don wrote:
    My own mountain cycling takes place year around. Throughout the winter:

    <https://crcomp.net/arts/spintale/winter.png>

    Do you run studs?

    No. Winter spins on the storied North Face of the mountain south of town
    are more infrequent, shorter, and require more preconditions. Such spins primarily keep my legs in shape for summer fun. (If you don't use it you
    lose it.)
    In the Winter the paved road to a promontory called Lookout must be
    mostly dry. Although snowy patches here and there are OK and crunchy
    rime ice is OK; black ice is a show stopper.
    The temperature at the start must be above 39 degrees F. Your own
    body heat keeps you toasty under a windbreaker thrown over a long sleeve t-shirt. Your own sweat drenches you, and becomes a very big problem on
    the way down.
    Southern chinook winds warm the town in the dead of Winter. But,
    they also agonize ascents on the North Face. Imagine gale force
    headwinds as you pedal a bicycle up a mountain.
    The ideal time for an ascent in Winter is when a storm first starts
    to blow in. The chinook eases off to slowly give way to a Northern
    tailwind.
    Of course the tailwind's cold and it becomes a headwind on the way
    back down. Remember my sweat drenched clothes? Add a nominal North wind
    of 20 MPH to a nominal 40 MPH downhill speed and you face a 60 MPH wind
    chill. Frozen digits on the way down become your biggest problem.

    Danke,

    --
    Don, KB7RPU, https://www.qsl.net/kb7rpu
    There was a young lady named Bright Whose speed was far faster than light;
    She set out one day In a relative way And returned on the previous night.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From DecadentLinuxUserNumeroUno@decadenc@21:1/5 to John Dope on Thu Jun 16 20:31:52 2022
    John Dope <always.look@message.header> wrote in news:t8f906$n4h$3@dont- email.me:


    Typical idiotic irrelevant response from Always Wrong...


    The idiot John Dope challenges a response, it gets filled, and then
    the putz denies he challenged anyone and declares their response to be irrelevant, when it addressed the challenge 100%. And uses name
    calling like the immature little school boy putz mentality dumbfuck he
    is.

    You really are an immature old fool, John Dope.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to All on Thu Jun 16 23:58:42 2022
    In Today's News...

    Michigan Attorney General Dana Nessel said Wednesday that there should be "a drag queen for every school."

    https://www.breitbart.com/politics/2022/06/16/nolte-michigans-attorney-general-wants-drag-queen-every-school/

    "Drag queens are entertainment. And you know what I'll say that was totally
    not poll-tested, I'd say this - 'A drag queen for every school'""

    San Francisco Democrat DA was recalled last week (terminated), now Los
    Angeles Democrat DA is being pursued by Terminator Recall.

    Apparently the current administration is promoting record gas prices, to
    reduce consumption. Of course that will help Democrats get elected...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Don on Thu Jun 16 21:24:06 2022
    On 06/16/2022 09:28 AM, Don wrote:
    In the Winter the paved road to a promontory called Lookout must be mostly dry. Although snowy patches here and there are OK and crunchy
    rime ice is OK; black ice is a show stopper.

    It certainly is. I was riding a trail that was mostly clear and came to
    a patch of smooth ice. I figured I could blow past it but physics
    disagreed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to rbowman on Fri Jun 17 17:36:15 2022
    On 16/6/22 14:07, rbowman wrote:
    On 06/15/2022 11:08 AM, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
    motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
    to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
    (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
    would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.

    Some do not require any pedaling. Locally they're trying to find a way
    to legally differentiate between the two.

    Those aren't road-legal here in Australia, though some folk have them
    anyway.

    Road use has three legal requirements:
    * 250W max
    * no assist above 27km/hr
    * no assist unless pedalling (no throttle)

    Clifford Hetah.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to rbowman on Fri Jun 17 13:53:55 2022
    On 6/17/2022 6:24, rbowman wrote:
    On 06/16/2022 09:28 AM, Don wrote:
        In the Winter the paved road to a promontory called Lookout must be >> mostly dry. Although snowy patches here and there are OK and crunchy
    rime ice is OK; black ice is a show stopper.

    It certainly is.  I was riding a trail that was mostly clear and came to
    a patch of smooth ice. I figured I could blow past it but physics
    disagreed.

    To me riding when there is snow is too much of a madness. I do ride
    during the winter months when it is dry and I have occasionally landed
    on a patch of snow, barely being able to control the slide (it typically happens at a curve on my daily track where the snow melts slowest).
    My tires are perhaps half as wide as Don's, may be 1/3, but still.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to rbowman on Fri Jun 17 08:05:37 2022
    On Thursday, June 16, 2022 at 11:24:15 PM UTC-4, rbowman wrote:
    On 06/16/2022 09:28 AM, Don wrote:
    In the Winter the paved road to a promontory called Lookout must be
    mostly dry. Although snowy patches here and there are OK and crunchy
    rime ice is OK; black ice is a show stopper.
    It certainly is. I was riding a trail that was mostly clear and came to
    a patch of smooth ice. I figured I could blow past it but physics
    disagreed.

    You need at least one more wheel for that to work.

    --

    Rick C.

    -++ Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    -++ Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sat Jun 18 02:08:12 2022
    On 2022-06-14, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.


    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor>

    That requires a magnetic material, some spokes are almost
    non-magnetic stainless steel. (only very weakly paramagnetic)

    Your typical ring gear or tone wheel is steel which is paramagnetic
    and prodices a stronger signal as it acts as a conduiit for magnetic
    fields and thus influences reluctance more.

    You could try putting a strong manetic field parrallel to the axle and
    trying to sense when spoke passes by the eddy current that will be
    induced (perhaps using a figure-8 coil coaxuial with the magnet).
    This seems potentially unreliable though as there may be oxide layers
    blocking the current

    capacitive sensing is another option, done at base-band (DC bias, no
    carrier) it shouldn't need mugh power and a FET gate is probably
    sensitive enough, but this might not work well in the damp.

    --
    Jasen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Ricky on Sat Jun 18 02:14:48 2022
    On 2022-06-14, Ricky <gnuarm.deletethisbit@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:16:34 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I have
    been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
    indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the
    MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
    placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive >> > sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive sensors >> > than I have.
    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these days,
    at least here in America.

    People often talk about cell phones as if they had universal
    coverage. That is true for 99.9% of where people spend their time.
    But that 0.1% of the time, like biking in the woods, you are out of
    cell phone range. So any solution needs to not depend on a cell phone connection. If you can use the GPS in your phone without a cell
    connection, great! But I haven't found such a program as yet. Maybe
    I just haven't dug deep enough.

    Well it's GPS so it's less reliable in tall cities or deep ravines.
    but it doesn't need a cell signal.



    --
    Jasen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to dp@tgi-sci.com on Sat Jun 18 03:49:25 2022
    On 2022-06-14, Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
    On 6/14/2022 21:21, whit3rd wrote:

    Putting the magnet underneath the tire is an idea. Of course I might
    lose it if I have a flat and repair it on the road (you won't believe
    how often I was getting a flat until I got my latest tires, they claim
    to have some Kevlar and I had just one flat in a year or two (can't
    remember if I got them last year or the year before, almost replacement
    due now). But then I have a decent supply of coin magnets, too (say 1mm thick/10mm diameter)...

    you could attach the magnet using a tube patch.
    I have some 5mm magnets that would fit in a Schrader valve cap.

    --
    Jasen.

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  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to Jasen Betts on Fri Jun 17 22:39:50 2022
    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 10:30:56 PM UTC-4, Jasen Betts wrote:
    On 2022-06-14, Ricky <gnuarm.del...@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 1:16:34 PM UTC-4, John Doe wrote:
    Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago. And
    while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers" I have >> > been thinking of making my own. Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage
    indicator for me, obviously. While this may likely remain the case
    forever I am still thinking about it - not the obvious things like the >> > MCU, display etc., just the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet
    placed somewhere on one of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a
    Hall sensor for pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD
    reader etc., but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing
    because I imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive >> > sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before >> > the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and >> > I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive sensors >> > than I have.
    This might be blasphemy, but...

    Speed and mileage indication is easily done with a smartphone these days, >> at least here in America.

    People often talk about cell phones as if they had universal
    coverage. That is true for 99.9% of where people spend their time.
    But that 0.1% of the time, like biking in the woods, you are out of
    cell phone range. So any solution needs to not depend on a cell phone connection. If you can use the GPS in your phone without a cell
    connection, great! But I haven't found such a program as yet. Maybe
    I just haven't dug deep enough.

    Well it's GPS so it's less reliable in tall cities or deep ravines.
    but it doesn't need a cell signal.

    I suppose that's true if you have an app that doesn't require a network connection. The few apps I've tried don't seem to do much without a cell signal.

    Then there's the problem of cell phones running for very long in continuous use without being recharged. A friend's phone would only last a few hours when running a GPS app in his car.

    --

    Rick C.

    +-- Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    +-- Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Jasen Betts on Fri Jun 17 23:24:57 2022
    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:30:56 PM UTC-7, Jasen Betts wrote:
    On 2022-06-14, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:

    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor>

    That requires a magnetic material, some spokes are almost
    non-magnetic stainless steel. (only very weakly paramagnetic)

    So, sense a sprocket tooth instead, or clip a magnet onto a spoke and don't rely on the spoke material at all. Hardest problem with reluctance is the low-output-at-slow-speed problem (Wiegand wire being one solution already mentioned).

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  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to whit3rd@gmail.com on Sat Jun 18 07:01:31 2022
    On 2022-06-18, whit3rd <whit3rd@gmail.com> wrote:
    On Friday, June 17, 2022 at 7:30:56 PM UTC-7, Jasen Betts wrote:
    On 2022-06-14, Joe Gwinn <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote:
    On Tue, 14 Jun 2022 18:51:21 +0300, Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com>
    wrote:

    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Variable_reluctance_sensor>

    That requires a magnetic material, some spokes are almost
    non-magnetic stainless steel. (only very weakly paramagnetic)

    So, sense a sprocket tooth instead, or clip a magnet onto a spoke and don't rely on the spoke material at all. Hardest problem with reluctance is the low-output-at-slow-speed problem (Wiegand wire being one solution already mentioned).

    You can mitigate the amplitude problem somewhat by parallelling a
    capacitor, but that won't boost the voltage at low speed, it just puts
    a hard limit on the high-speed output.

    Wiegand needs to be re-magnetised to the opposite polarity to produce a pulse, but two magnets
    are probably not a deal breaker if one is acceptable.

    --
    Jasen.

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  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Thu Jun 23 09:41:24 2022
    On 15/06/2022 07:52, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7ig0k1nidjn95mqbbg1@4ax.com>:

    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic. This can be
    solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
    brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive. The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    Just thinking, use a camera looking down
    The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
    Almost like a computah mouse...

    Forty years or so ago I was doing some work for either Austin Rover or
    British Leyland, can't remember which world-leading high-quality British
    car manufacturer, there were so many.

    Anyway, a test car they used had something like that - an optical device looking at the road to accurately measure speed. IIRC it was very
    expensive.

    I have a feeling it was something to do with diffraction gratings and
    prisms.

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

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  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Clive Arthur on Mon Jun 27 08:03:16 2022
    Clive Arthur wrote:
    On 15/06/2022 07:52, Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Tue, 14 Jun 2022 17:56:50 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn
    <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in
    <4a0iahhpmhi9ocv7ig0k1nidjn95mqbbg1@4ax.com>:

    Well, there is also Wiegand-wire sensors:

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_effect>

    .<https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wiegand_Sensor>

    But as others have noted, the spokes may be non-magnetic.  This can be
    solved by adding a bit of zinc-plated mild steel tubing (automotive
    brake line) glued to at least one spoke with a silicon rubber
    adhesive.  The spoke would pass through an inch of tube, with silicon
    rubber filling the gap between tube and spoke.

    Joe Gwinn

    Just thinking, use a camera looking down
    The speed can be derived from the moving pattern it sees
    Almost like a computah mouse...

    Forty years or so ago I was doing some work for either Austin Rover or British Leyland, can't remember which world-leading high-quality British
    car manufacturer, there were so many.

    Anyway, a test car they used had something like that - an optical device looking at the road to accurately measure speed.  IIRC it was very expensive.

    I have a feeling it was something to do with diffraction gratings and
    prisms.


    There's a fun effect that's sometimes used in sensors for things like
    paper handlers: if you shine a laser on a rough surface, the speckle
    pattern moves exactly twice as fast as the surface. This turns out to
    be a fairly deep consequence of the law of reflection.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

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  • From Fred Bloggs@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Mon Jun 27 12:30:27 2022
    On Tuesday, June 14, 2022 at 11:51:30 AM UTC-4, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    I started cycling again (used to as a kid...) some 4 years ago.
    And while I know there are plenty of super cheap "bicycle computers"
    I have been thinking of making my own.
    Thus so far 4 years no speed/mileage indicator for me, obviously.
    While this may likely remain the case forever I am still thinking
    about it - not the obvious things like the MCU, display etc., just
    the rotation sensor. They all use a magnet placed somewhere on one
    of the wheels and some sensor, I have used a Hall sensor for
    pretty precise positioning of the rotor of our TLD reader etc.,
    but I only still keep on thinking of making the thing because I
    imagine it sensing just the spokes, i.e. making some inductive sensor.

    I know what I will try out etc., I may even get to designing one before
    the millennium is over but well, these thoughts seem to be on topic and
    I am sure there are people with more experience making inductive
    sensors than I have.

    You're talking about devices that sell on Aliexpress for $1.29.

    If you're a halfway serious cyclist, there are computers that measure cadence, pedal rotations per minute, again with a magnet attached to the pedals, in addition to the usual RPM/ speed and total distance. Looks like the reed relays have been abandoned
    in favor of hall effect or the giant magntoresistance technology, dunno which. The packages are way too flat to house a relay. The little magnets and their housing look unchanged from the reed relay days.
    Plotting the actual route has always been a big deal for road cyclists, so I imagine GPS is used for that in the high end units- but they still need magnets and sensors for cadence measurement, and probably a backup for wheel RPM.

    The so-called industrial designers look first at the kind of functionality and form the prospective users will most likely want, and only then hand the design off to nuts and bolts people capable of making a physical product.
    You'll be hard pressed to improve upon or innovate existing products.



    ======================================================
    Dimiter Popoff, TGI http://www.tgi-sci.com ====================================================== http://www.flickr.com/photos/didi_tgi/

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  • From none) (albert@21:1/5 to dp@tgi-sci.com on Mon Jul 11 10:59:04 2022
    In article <t8d3mh$hc9$1@dont-email.me>,
    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
    <SNIP>

    I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
    motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
    to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
    (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
    would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.

    Everybody uses a bike here, including elderly with a heart condition.
    In the Netherlands electric bikes are quite popular. They are bought
    by people to occasionally take a slope easier, or go slightly faster.
    They are eminently practical and handle as normal bikes with benefits.
    At least 10 % of new bikes sold are electric (probably more).

    Groetjes Albert
    --
    "in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
    alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
    die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
    albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to albert on Mon Jul 11 08:55:46 2022
    On 07/11/2022 02:59 AM, albert wrote:
    In article <t8d3mh$hc9$1@dont-email.me>,
    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
    <SNIP>

    I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
    motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
    to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
    (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
    would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.

    Everybody uses a bike here, including elderly with a heart condition.
    In the Netherlands electric bikes are quite popular. They are bought
    by people to occasionally take a slope easier, or go slightly faster.
    They are eminently practical and handle as normal bikes with benefits.
    At least 10 % of new bikes sold are electric (probably more).

    Groetjes Albert


    Are they as expensive as in the US where they start at 1600 USD and go
    to more than twice that? I watched a video by a man in his '60s that was
    very informative. He liked the bike but pointed out some of the
    disadvantages. Since they're a hot commodity they tend to get stolen.
    The best U-lock or chain is no obstacle for someone with a portable
    angle grinder. The batteries are also vulnerable, at around $500. They
    do have a lock but according to him a couple of sharp blows with spring it.

    He'd had knee problems and hadn't ridden a bicycle in 30 years. Between
    that and the higher center of gravity he'd fallen twice. He did a survey
    of the ebike forums and found that was common. My thought was they may
    attract people who have little experience on two wheels. That's
    concerning since they seem to fall into two categories, 20 mph motors
    with more torque and 27 mph motors wound for a little less torque but
    more speed.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Mon Jul 11 08:48:31 2022
    mandag den 11. juli 2022 kl. 16.55.54 UTC+2 skrev rbowman:
    On 07/11/2022 02:59 AM, albert wrote:
    In article <t8d3mh$hc9$1...@dont-email.me>,
    Dimiter_Popoff <d...@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
    <SNIP>

    I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
    motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
    to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
    (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
    would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.

    Everybody uses a bike here, including elderly with a heart condition.
    In the Netherlands electric bikes are quite popular. They are bought
    by people to occasionally take a slope easier, or go slightly faster.
    They are eminently practical and handle as normal bikes with benefits.
    At least 10 % of new bikes sold are electric (probably more).

    Groetjes Albert

    Are they as expensive as in the US where they start at 1600 USD and go
    to more than twice that? I watched a video by a man in his '60s that was very informative. He liked the bike but pointed out some of the disadvantages. Since they're a hot commodity they tend to get stolen.
    The best U-lock or chain is no obstacle for someone with a portable
    angle grinder. The batteries are also vulnerable, at around $500. They
    do have a lock but according to him a couple of sharp blows with spring it.

    He'd had knee problems and hadn't ridden a bicycle in 30 years. Between
    that and the higher center of gravity he'd fallen twice. He did a survey
    of the ebike forums and found that was common. My thought was they may attract people who have little experience on two wheels. That's
    concerning since they seem to fall into two categories, 20 mph motors
    with more torque and 27 mph motors wound for a little less torque but
    more speed.

    in EU regular electric bikes are max 250W and no electric aid above 25km/h (~16mph)
    you can get one from ~800€ and up

    here there also a trail with the so called "speed pedelec", they are more like a moped.
    max speed 45km/h it needs to be registered and have insurance and you have to wear a helmet and have a moped or car license

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  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Lasse Langwadt Christensen on Mon Jul 11 22:43:57 2022
    On 07/11/2022 09:48 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    in EU regular electric bikes are max 250W and no electric aid above 25km/h (~16mph)
    you can get one from ~800€ and up

    The specs are all over the place. I even saw one that claimed 500w, 250w nominal in Europe. Somehow I'm suspicious of a 750w claim by Bafang.
    There was a flood of Chinese scooters for a while, some claiming 150cc's
    which it turned out was the oil volume. It was actually a 50cc engine.

    here there also a trail with the so called "speed pedelec", they are more like a moped.
    max speed 45km/h it needs to be registered and have insurance and you have to wear a helmet and have a moped or car license

    Some trails here have signs posted banning any ebikes but they are
    traditional mountain bike trails, not the paved multiuse trails in town.
    I have a couple of pedal powered bicycles, and three motorcycles so I'm
    not anti-bike but I'm not comfortable sharing a pedal bike / pedestrian
    trail with something capable of 45 km/h. They would be better suited
    for city streets with bike lanes where they could keep up with traffic
    in many cases.

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  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Tue Jul 12 00:03:21 2022
    tirsdag den 12. juli 2022 kl. 06.44.05 UTC+2 skrev rbowman:
    On 07/11/2022 09:48 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    in EU regular electric bikes are max 250W and no electric aid above 25km/h (~16mph)
    you can get one from ~800€ and up
    The specs are all over the place. I even saw one that claimed 500w, 250w nominal in Europe. Somehow I'm suspicious of a 750w claim by Bafang.

    unless it is type approved, max 250W, no aid above 25km/h it is not legal on public roads
    if stopped by police you'll get a fine, possibly confiscated the bike and in an accident you'll
    have problems with insurance

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  • From none) (albert@21:1/5 to bowman@montana.com on Thu Jul 14 14:40:59 2022
    In article <jj2rvjFtmn4U1@mid.individual.net>,
    rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    On 07/11/2022 02:59 AM, albert wrote:
    In article <t8d3mh$hc9$1@dont-email.me>,
    Dimiter_Popoff <dp@tgi-sci.com> wrote:
    <SNIP>

    I have seen "normal" bicycles with a battery and some electric
    motor... I was told the motor just helps you, they are made not
    to move on their own, you have to pedal but you get assistance
    (making life easier uphill I suppose). Some nonsense that, why
    would I bike if I didn't want the exercise.

    Everybody uses a bike here, including elderly with a heart condition.
    In the Netherlands electric bikes are quite popular. They are bought
    by people to occasionally take a slope easier, or go slightly faster.
    They are eminently practical and handle as normal bikes with benefits.
    At least 10 % of new bikes sold are electric (probably more).

    Groetjes Albert


    Are they as expensive as in the US where they start at 1600 USD and go
    to more than twice that? I watched a video by a man in his '60s that was
    very informative. He liked the bike but pointed out some of the >disadvantages. Since they're a hot commodity they tend to get stolen.
    The best U-lock or chain is no obstacle for someone with a portable
    angle grinder. The batteries are also vulnerable, at around $500. They
    do have a lock but according to him a couple of sharp blows with spring it.

    New electric bikes start well under 1000 euro's, second hand still less.
    The batteries are a concern, but one will live with that.
    Stolen bicycles is a concern, but there are electronic ways to counter
    that.

    Concerning spoke detectors.

    If the material is stainless, the conclusion that it has no
    magnetic properties is not warranted. Check with a magnet.
    My 30 year old race bike has stainless spokes, but they are magnetic.

    Yesterday I walked home from my restaurant,
    inspecting 200 bicycles. From those approximately half
    have galvanised spokes. No need to inspect those, they are magnetic.
    From the other bikes there were few we expected to have non magnetic
    spokes.
    I suspected especially those that are black and thin.
    These are not carbon fiber,
    but they are slightly magnetic, sufficiently to detect I guess.

    The bottom line suggests that the news is good if you want to market a
    device that works on spokes. However I found something strange.
    My friend has magnetic spokes front, non-magnetic at the rear.
    Another friend has slightly magnetic spokes... in the even positions
    right and non-magnetics spokes in the odd positions.
    Apparently there are batches of spokes and they switch in the middle
    of spoking a wheel, and the magnetic properties are apparently of
    no concern.

    Groetjes Albert
    --
    "in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
    alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
    die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
    albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clifford Heath@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun Jul 17 17:51:18 2022
    On 12/7/22 14:43, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/11/2022 09:48 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    in EU regular electric bikes are max 250W and no electric aid above
    25km/h (~16mph)
    you can get one from ~800€ and up
    The specs are all over the place. I even saw one that claimed 500w, 250w nominal in Europe. Somehow I'm suspicious of a 750w claim by Bafang.

    Bafang have a 750W crank-mount motor, and a 1000W one. If they're
    efficient enough they don't have to dissipate much of that, of course.

    They can be road-legal if the controller limits the output to 250W.
    You might need to prove that however, especially if the bike can unlock
    full power for off-road use.

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  • From none) (albert@21:1/5 to no_spam@please.net on Sun Jul 17 12:57:59 2022
    In article <17028e82e5d5a448$1$1440173$68dd626a@news.thecubenet.com>,
    Clifford Heath <no_spam@please.net> wrote:
    On 12/7/22 14:43, rbowman wrote:
    On 07/11/2022 09:48 AM, Lasse Langwadt Christensen wrote:
    in EU regular electric bikes are max 250W and no electric aid above
    25km/h (~16mph)
    you can get one from ~800€ and up
    The specs are all over the place. I even saw one that claimed 500w, 250w
    nominal in Europe. Somehow I'm suspicious of a 750w claim by Bafang.

    Bafang have a 750W crank-mount motor, and a 1000W one. If they're
    efficient enough they don't have to dissipate much of that, of course.

    They can be road-legal if the controller limits the output to 250W.
    You might need to prove that however, especially if the bike can unlock
    full power for off-road use.

    Remember there are also electric powered scooter and bikes, that
    are considered motor vehicles, and fall under the same regulations
    as gas powered, e.g. registration and insurance.

    Groetjes Albert
    --
    "in our communism country Viet Nam, people are forced to be
    alive and in the western country like US, people are free to
    die from Covid 19 lol" duc ha
    albert@spe&ar&c.xs4all.nl &=n http://home.hccnet.nl/a.w.m.van.der.horst

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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