• more gold FR4

    From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Wed May 4 11:19:11 2022
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for proto
    circuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is 1/2 oz copper,
    which dremels nicely.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1

    Min order was 3 square feet, which is maybe a 10 year supply.


    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Martin Rid@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu May 5 12:15:09 2022
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?

    Cheers
    --


    ----Android NewsGroup Reader---- https://piaohong.s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/usenet/index.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to martin_riddle@verison.net on Thu May 5 09:43:50 2022
    On Thu, 5 May 2022 12:15:09 -0400 (EDT), Martin Rid
    <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:

    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?

    Cheers

    Not much dissolves gold.

    It solders beautifully and stays shiny forever.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com on Thu May 5 13:15:54 2022
    On Thursday, May 5, 2022 at 12:44:04 PM UTC-4, jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Thu, 5 May 2022 12:15:09 -0400 (EDT), Martin Rid
    <martin...@verison.net> wrote:

    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?

    Cheers
    Not much dissolves gold.

    It solders beautifully and stays shiny forever.

    Hmmm, I thought it dissolves very readily in solder.

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Martin Rid on Thu May 5 19:55:25 2022
    On 05/05/2022 10:15 AM, Martin Rid wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?

    Cheers


    Probably need aqua regia. Ferric chloride is miserable to work with but
    it makes aqua regia look like soda pop.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Martin Rid on Fri May 6 12:01:38 2022
    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    --
    Jasen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org on Fri May 6 07:04:26 2022
    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri May 6 14:23:14 2022
    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts ><usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Fri May 6 07:30:56 2022
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened >jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in ><g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts >><usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.




    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jeroen Belleman@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri May 6 17:32:23 2022
    On 2022-05-06 16:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.

    I lightly sand a piece of copper clad and then paint it with
    a very thin layer of rosin. That works too, though not as well
    as ENIG.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Jeroen Belleman

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri May 6 16:13:19 2022
    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:30:56 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <22ca7hh5pnch8m0a3mk8q7jqvnu9setseb@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened >>jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in >><g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts >>><usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square
    feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be
    content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick >>>dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.

    Maybe for wimin
    I do it this way (boards that is):
    http://panteltje.com/pub/test_board_wiring_side_IMG_3921.GIF
    the long wires are the MHz part, the other stuff on the right is giggle Hertz

    Still looks the same today.
    I do use 60/40

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to jeroen@nospam.please on Fri May 6 09:09:01 2022
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 17:32:23 +0200, Jeroen Belleman
    <jeroen@nospam.please> wrote:

    On 2022-05-06 16:30, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.

    I lightly sand a piece of copper clad and then paint it with
    a very thin layer of rosin. That works too, though not as well
    as ENIG.

    Jeroen Belleman

    Jeroen Belleman

    SoftScrub is great for shining up copperclad or ENIG copperclad. It's
    almost optical-grade polish.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Rich S@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 6 10:56:19 2022
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits
    , so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx
    43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall
    end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    Bling bling!

    When I'm building stuff for customers (e.g. bits of a POC proto), I
    sometimes spray some clear acrylic Krylon on the clean copper-clad
    before gettting started. That keeps the board looking nice for a long
    time as well, and you can solder right through it with no issues.

    I'm not as posh as John, is all. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Different stroke for different folks
    I was going to suggest same kind of thing, a cheap clear coat like clear
    spray "paint". Good to know the idea has Phil's endorsement ;-)

    I'm not in you guy's bizness but I remember long ago a former
    co worker (who once ran elec assy lines at GE, Schenectady, NY)
    mention something called "Stay Bright" -- when ordering bare
    non-plated etched PCBs. Searching for that now turns up
    other unrelated things. But I suppose PCB makers can
    offer clean meltable coatings, yes?
    = RS

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Jan Panteltje on Fri May 6 13:35:35 2022
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.


    Bling bling!

    When I'm building stuff for customers (e.g. bits of a POC proto), I
    sometimes spray some clear acrylic Krylon on the clean copper-clad
    before gettting started. That keeps the board looking nice for a long
    time as well, and you can solder right through it with no issues.

    I'm not as posh as John, is all. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Lasse Langwadt Christensen@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 6 11:43:55 2022
    fredag den 6. maj 2022 kl. 19.35.45 UTC+2 skrev Phil Hobbs:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened jla...@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pph...@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <use...@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin...@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    Bling bling!

    When I'm building stuff for customers (e.g. bits of a POC proto), I
    sometimes spray some clear acrylic Krylon on the clean copper-clad
    before gettting started. That keeps the board looking nice for a long
    time as well, and you can solder right through it with no issues.


    you can even get some some green paint to make it look like soldermask

    http://www.fortex.co.uk/product/green-coat-solder-laquer/

    or clear meant for soldering

    https://www.amazon.de/-/en/Contact-Chemie-Soldering-Paint-74513-AA/dp/B003A61VI6/

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to richsulinengineer@gmail.com on Fri May 6 11:54:51 2022
    On Fri, 6 May 2022 10:56:19 -0700 (PDT), Rich S
    <richsulinengineer@gmail.com> wrote:

    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >> >>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits
    , so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx >43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall
    end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    Bling bling!

    When I'm building stuff for customers (e.g. bits of a POC proto), I
    sometimes spray some clear acrylic Krylon on the clean copper-clad
    before gettting started. That keeps the board looking nice for a long
    time as well, and you can solder right through it with no issues.

    I'm not as posh as John, is all. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Different stroke for different folks
    I was going to suggest same kind of thing, a cheap clear coat like clear >spray "paint". Good to know the idea has Phil's endorsement ;-)

    I'm not in you guy's bizness but I remember long ago a former
    co worker (who once ran elec assy lines at GE, Schenectady, NY)
    mention something called "Stay Bright" -- when ordering bare
    non-plated etched PCBs. Searching for that now turns up
    other unrelated things. But I suppose PCB makers can
    offer clean meltable coatings, yes?
    = RS

    There is some liquid that you can dip copperclad into that plates it
    with tin. It's not any better than bare copper.


    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Walliker@21:1/5 to Jasen Betts on Fri May 6 12:06:22 2022
    On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 13:30:59 UTC+1, Jasen Betts wrote:
    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin...@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?
    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    If you do need to dissolve a thin layer of gold without using really nasty reagents,
    then an iodine solution is quite effective.

    John

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerhard Hoffmann@21:1/5 to All on Fri May 6 21:07:47 2022
    Am 06.05.22 um 19:56 schrieb Rich S:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits
    , so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is

    When I'm building stuff for customers (e.g. bits of a POC proto), I
    sometimes spray some clear acrylic Krylon on the clean copper-clad
    before gettting started. That keeps the board looking nice for a long
    time as well, and you can solder right through it with no issues.

    I'm not as posh as John, is all. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Different stroke for different folks
    I was going to suggest same kind of thing, a cheap clear coat like clear spray "paint". Good to know the idea has Phil's endorsement ;-)

    I'm not in you guy's bizness but I remember long ago a former
    co worker (who once ran elec assy lines at GE, Schenectady, NY)
    mention something called "Stay Bright" -- when ordering bare
    non-plated etched PCBs. Searching for that now turns up
    other unrelated things. But I suppose PCB makers can
    offer clean meltable coatings, yes?


    I use solder laquer SK10 by Kontakt Chemie. It is an excellent
    flux and protects the copper but is not very hard against
    mechanical abuse.

    When I want to test my circuit today, I use these Bungard
    presensitized boards:

    <
    https://www.bungard.de/en/consumables/consumables/presensitized-boards: >

    4 mil / 4 mil is no problem when the mask is good.
    I my case, 1 signal layer and 1 unetched ground layer.
    The layout can be recycled easily for dual sided
    multilayers for the final product.
    1.5 h from computer to solder.

    For microwave filters, where it counts, the print
    shop in the next village makes me an offset film
    from my PDF with true 2400 dpi.

    For the flight hardware of space projects we had
    to remove the gold from the transistor legs etc.
    Looks good, but the Au makes the solder joints brittle.
    Non-compliance ==> junk pile.
    There was a tin bath just for this purpose.

    A friend told me his grief when he tried to repair
    a YIG oscillator. Tried to solder a golden bond wire
    under the microscope. The gold wire disappeared as
    fast in the tin as he moved the tin blob. Shocking.
    It went simply into solution.

    Cheers, Gerhard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Gerhard Hoffmann on Fri May 6 21:36:53 2022
    Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 06.05.22 um 19:56 schrieb Rich S:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in
    message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for >>>>>>>> protocircuits
    , so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is

    When I'm building stuff for customers (e.g. bits of a POC proto), I
    sometimes spray some clear acrylic Krylon on the clean copper-clad
    before gettting started. That keeps the board looking nice for a long
    time as well, and you can solder right through it with no issues.

    I'm not as posh as John, is all. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Different stroke for different folks
    I was going to suggest same kind of thing, a cheap clear coat like clear
    spray "paint". Good to know the idea has Phil's endorsement ;-)

    I'm not in you guy's bizness but I remember long ago a former
    co worker (who once ran elec assy lines at GE, Schenectady, NY)
    mention something called "Stay Bright" -- when ordering bare
    non-plated etched PCBs.  Searching for that now turns up
    other unrelated things. But I suppose PCB makers can
    offer clean meltable coatings, yes?


    I use solder laquer SK10 by Kontakt Chemie. It is an excellent
    flux and protects the copper but is not very hard against
    mechanical abuse.

    When I want to test my circuit today, I use these Bungard
    presensitized boards:

    <
    https://www.bungard.de/en/consumables/consumables/presensitized-boards:


    4 mil / 4 mil is no problem when the mask is good.
    I my case, 1 signal layer and 1 unetched  ground layer.
    The layout can be recycled easily for dual sided
    multilayers for the final product.
    1.5 h from computer to solder.

    For microwave filters, where it counts, the print
    shop in the next village makes me an offset film
    from my PDF with true 2400 dpi.

    For the flight hardware of space projects we had
    to remove the gold from the transistor legs etc.
    Looks good, but the Au makes the solder joints brittle.
    Non-compliance ==> junk pile.
    There was a tin bath just for this purpose.

    A friend told me his grief when he tried to repair
    a YIG oscillator. Tried to solder a golden bond wire
    under the microscope. The gold wire disappeared as
    fast in the tin as he moved the tin blob. Shocking.
    It went simply into solution.

    Yup, been there. 2% silver solder is a big help in preserving the gold.
    Indium-tin eutectic also works well, but it's so low-melting that flux doesn't work well.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerhard Hoffmann@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 7 04:39:26 2022
    Am 06.05.22 um 20:54 schrieb John Larkin:

    There is some liquid that you can dip copperclad into that plates it
    with tin. It's not any better than bare copper.


    This one is good and much better than copper:

    < https://www.buerklin.com/de/Zinnpulver-f%C3%BCr-Glanzzinn-B%C3%A4der-Seno-3211/p/13L217
    >

    The Cu surface must be _absolutely_ clean. They have a special
    eraser rubber for it, quite abrasive. "Poliblock"

    For me. it works best to put the etched Bungard presensitized
    board without photo mask under UV again and then use the NaOH
    developper to remove the photo resist.

    cheers, Gerhard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Fri May 6 19:37:27 2022
    On Fri, 6 May 2022 21:36:53 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Gerhard Hoffmann wrote:
    Am 06.05.22 um 19:56 schrieb Rich S:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in
    message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for >>>>>>>>> protocircuits
    , so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is

    When I'm building stuff for customers (e.g. bits of a POC proto), I
    sometimes spray some clear acrylic Krylon on the clean copper-clad
    before gettting started. That keeps the board looking nice for a long
    time as well, and you can solder right through it with no issues.

    I'm not as posh as John, is all. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    Different stroke for different folks
    I was going to suggest same kind of thing, a cheap clear coat like clear >>> spray "paint". Good to know the idea has Phil's endorsement ;-)

    I'm not in you guy's bizness but I remember long ago a former
    co worker (who once ran elec assy lines at GE, Schenectady, NY)
    mention something called "Stay Bright" -- when ordering bare
    non-plated etched PCBs.† Searching for that now turns up
    other unrelated things. But I suppose PCB makers can
    offer clean meltable coatings, yes?


    I use solder laquer SK10 by Kontakt Chemie. It is an excellent
    flux and protects the copper but is not very hard against
    mechanical abuse.

    When I want to test my circuit today, I use these Bungard
    presensitized boards:

    <
    https://www.bungard.de/en/consumables/consumables/presensitized-boards:


    4 mil / 4 mil is no problem when the mask is good.
    I my case, 1 signal layer and 1 unetched† ground layer.
    The layout can be recycled easily for dual sided
    multilayers for the final product.
    1.5 h from computer to solder.

    For microwave filters, where it counts, the print
    shop in the next village makes me an offset film
    from my PDF with true 2400 dpi.

    For the flight hardware of space projects we had
    to remove the gold from the transistor legs etc.
    Looks good, but the Au makes the solder joints brittle.
    Non-compliance ==> junk pile.
    There was a tin bath just for this purpose.

    A friend told me his grief when he tried to repair
    a YIG oscillator. Tried to solder a golden bond wire
    under the microscope. The gold wire disappeared as
    fast in the tin as he moved the tin blob. Shocking.
    It went simply into solution.

    Yup, been there. 2% silver solder is a big help in preserving the gold.
    Indium-tin eutectic also works well, but it's so low-melting that flux
    doesn't work well.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    The gold on my boards is microinches thick. I'm sure that it dissolves
    in solder. But then the solder sticks to the nickel somehow.

    The gold plated FR4 solders agressively. I have to be careful about
    little solder splashes ruining the prettiness.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to jrwalliker@gmail.com on Fri May 6 19:39:54 2022
    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:06:22 -0700 (PDT), John Walliker
    <jrwalliker@gmail.com> wrote:

    On Friday, 6 May 2022 at 13:30:59 UTC+1, Jasen Betts wrote:
    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin...@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is 1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?
    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    If you do need to dissolve a thin layer of gold without using really nasty reagents,
    then an iodine solution is quite effective.

    John

    But I don't want to dissolve it.

    One board house wanted $1200 a square foot. Cirexx did 3 sq feet for
    $500.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Fri May 6 20:10:23 2022
    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat May 7 15:59:34 2022
    rbowman wrote:
    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in
    message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for
    protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels
    nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min
    order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with
    certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to >>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    †plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is
    gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    Doesn't work. You have to coat it first.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat May 7 13:18:48 2022
    On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Sat May 7 17:27:48 2022
    On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r >>>>>>>> I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
    like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
    despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Rich S on Sat May 7 14:41:11 2022
    On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Rich S wrote:

    ...I remember long ago a former
    co worker (who once ran elec assy lines at GE, Schenectady, NY)
    mention something called "Stay Bright" -- when ordering bare
    non-plated etched PCBs. Searching for that now turns up
    other unrelated things.

    Yeah, I recall that stuff; it just rubs on, and by electroless plating puts a bit
    of silver on a copper surface. Don't see any suppliers, but this shows up
    on a web search
    <https://www.protext.com//Metals/SilverChloridePlating1.htm>

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Sat May 7 16:42:53 2022
    On 05/07/2022 01:59 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    rbowman wrote:
    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in
    message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for >>>>>>>> protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels
    nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min
    order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with
    certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to >>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold
    plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is
    gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    Doesn't work. You have to coat it first.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    https://electrolube.com/knowledge_base/what-are-conformal-coatings/ https://www.techspray.com/the-essential-guide-to-conformal-coating

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sat May 7 20:07:35 2022
    rbowman wrote:
    On 05/07/2022 01:59 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    rbowman wrote:
    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in
    message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for >>>>>>>>> protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels
    nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min

    order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with
    certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be
    content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold >>>>>>>> †plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and
    solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is
    gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    Doesn't work.† You have to coat it first.


    https://electrolube.com/knowledge_base/what-are-conformal-coatings/ https://www.techspray.com/the-essential-guide-to-conformal-coating

    I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
    often, as I said upthread.

    Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.

    You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sat May 7 20:10:07 2022
    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon

    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold >>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel
    can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick
    dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
    like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
    despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals underneath are good?

    You must not have dealt with many customers. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Sun May 8 02:51:58 2022
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    [...]

    I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
    often, as I said upthread.

    Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.

    You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    So how do you remove fingerprints? Isoprop, acetone, soap and water?

    (need to plan my next crime:)



    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Miles, KE5FX@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Sat May 7 19:56:34 2022
    On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 5:10:14 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals underneath are good?

    http://hobbs-eo.com

    Guess you never had the chance to see the Jim Williams workbench exhibit
    at CHM. Bummer.

    The electrons don't care about aesthetics and the photons will get over it.
    The customers might, but you don't want those sorts of customers anyway.

    -- john, KE5fx

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to joegwinn@comcast.net on Sun May 8 05:23:07 2022
    On a sunny day (Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <fpod7ht1b63l5niqipk45kumqqemakn2tq@4ax.com>:

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
    like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
    despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    Its a good investment....
    https://goldprice.org/live-gold-price.html

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Jan Panteltje@21:1/5 to joegwinn@comcast.net on Sun May 8 05:29:35 2022
    On a sunny day (Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <fpod7ht1b63l5niqipk45kumqqemakn2tq@4ax.com>:

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
    like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
    despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    Its a good investment....
    https://goldprice.org/live-gold-price.html

    But you cannot eat gold, better have some prepper stuff too.
    As enjineers keep some trannies and a solar powered solderig iron.
    ehh
    Any day now

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 8 01:42:28 2022
    John Miles, KE5FX wrote:
    On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 5:10:14 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals
    underneath are good?

    http://hobbs-eo.com

    Guess you never had the chance to see the Jim Williams workbench exhibit
    at CHM. Bummer.

    I've seen photos of it. My bench isn't super neat either, but most of
    my stuff has microwave transistors in it these days, so I don't use that
    many huge through-hole parts anymore.

    The electrons don't care about aesthetics and the photons will get over it. The customers might, but you don't want those sorts of customers anyway.

    -- john, KE5fx

    Au contraire. A nice-looking dead bug gizmo in an aluminum stomp box is
    easy to make and IME really makes the punters take an interest in how
    the gizmo works.

    I only bother if it's for a POC proto. For little testers and stuff
    like that, I don't much care about the fingerprints.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Mike Monett on Sun May 8 01:36:19 2022
    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    [...]

    I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
    often, as I said upthread.

    Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty
    fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.

    You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.


    So how do you remove fingerprints? Isoprop, acetone, soap and water?

    (need to plan my next crime:)

    I usually clean the bare board with soap and water, or occasionally some Barkeeper's Friend or 0000 steel wool with soap.

    Once the board is dry, you hit it with the Krylon, then just do the
    dead-bug thing (using SMT breakouts when needed) as usual. It solders
    like a bare board.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Mike Monett@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Sun May 8 10:47:38 2022
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    [...]

    I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
    often, as I said upthread.

    Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty
    fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.

    You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.


    So how do you remove fingerprints? Isoprop, acetone, soap and water?

    (need to plan my next crime:)

    I usually clean the bare board with soap and water, or occasionally some Barkeeper's Friend or 0000 steel wool with soap.

    Once the board is dry, you hit it with the Krylon, then just do the
    dead-bug thing (using SMT breakouts when needed) as usual. It solders
    like a bare board.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Thanks!



    --
    MRM

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com on Sun May 8 07:22:32 2022
    On Sun, 08 May 2022 05:23:07 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400) it happened Joe Gwinn ><joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote in <fpod7ht1b63l5niqipk45kumqqemakn2tq@4ax.com>:

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
    like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity >>despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    Its a good investment....
    https://goldprice.org/live-gold-price.html

    ENIG has a few micro-inches of gold. Not worth much.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sun May 8 07:16:35 2022
    On Sun, 8 May 2022 01:36:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    [...]

    I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
    often, as I said upthread.

    Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty
    fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.

    You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.


    So how do you remove fingerprints? Isoprop, acetone, soap and water?

    (need to plan my next crime:)

    I usually clean the bare board with soap and water, or occasionally some >Barkeeper's Friend or 0000 steel wool with soap.

    Once the board is dry, you hit it with the Krylon, then just do the
    dead-bug thing (using SMT breakouts when needed) as usual. It solders
    like a bare board.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs


    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sun May 8 07:19:16 2022
    On Sun, 8 May 2022 01:36:19 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Mike Monett wrote:
    Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    [...]

    I know a fair amount about conformal coatings--I've used them fairly
    often, as I said upthread.

    Thing is: if you apply them to bare copper, on top of a lot of sweaty
    fingerprints, they don't keep the copper from corroding.

    You want to put the coating on _before_ the fingerprints.


    So how do you remove fingerprints? Isoprop, acetone, soap and water?

    (need to plan my next crime:)

    I usually clean the bare board with soap and water, or occasionally some >Barkeeper's Friend or 0000 steel wool with soap.

    Once the board is dry, you hit it with the Krylon, then just do the
    dead-bug thing (using SMT breakouts when needed) as usual. It solders
    like a bare board.

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    Dead bug is confusing, not to mention insect cruelty.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/9av93ul8148zdjm/Z356_SN2.JPG?raw=1



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sun May 8 15:06:24 2022
    On Sat, 7 May 2022 20:10:07 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon >>>>>>>>>
    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold >>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel >>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick >>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
    like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
    despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals >underneath are good?

    You must not have dealt with many customers. ;)

    Many. Some have a sense of humor. This excludes Contracts, though.

    But none would like a dead-bug implementation (which I do only in the
    privacy of my own lab). Actually, I did do a project many years ago
    where I packaged the logic circuitry in a tub of paraffin wax, for
    mechanical robustness. If change or repair was need, melt wax, pour
    out, make change, pour wax back in.

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 8 15:10:38 2022
    On Sat, 07 May 2022 16:01:16 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>wrote:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon >>>>>>>>>
    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold >>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel >>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can
    them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick >>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show
    etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
    like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity >>despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    Joe Gwinn

    I only need to please myself.

    And of course sell things. I built this and brought it into a meeting
    with a potential customer. They were very impressed.

    <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlnyna48107t0km/AADzQiRs7zww682eL_swPFONa?dl=0?

    It's a Pockels Cell driver. The production version is water cooled and
    makes 1200 volt pulses at 5 MHz.

    It's very pretty, and works even: nice Gaussian pulse.

    But how many prototypes did it take to be able to make those scalloped
    dremel line freehand?

    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sun May 8 16:01:18 2022
    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sat, 7 May 2022 20:10:07 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>>
    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon >>>>>>>>>>
    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold >>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel >>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can >>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick >>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show >>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
    like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
    despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals
    underneath are good?

    You must not have dealt with many customers. ;)

    Many. Some have a sense of humor. This excludes Contracts, though.

    But none would like a dead-bug implementation (which I do only in the
    privacy of my own lab). Actually, I did do a project many years ago
    where I packaged the logic circuitry in a tub of paraffin wax, for
    mechanical robustness. If change or repair was need, melt wax, pour
    out, make change, pour wax back in.

    Joe Gwinn

    Depends.

    Ten years or so ago, I built a *working* transcutaneous blood glucose measurement system, made mostly out of optics from my drawer and
    dead-bug electronics built in stomp boxes. (It also had some purchased
    parts: an RC airplane servo and some aluminum angle from Servo City, a diffraction grating, a LabJack 7 Pro, and a Thinkpad from eBay.

    The whole thing took six weeks by the calendar, and cost $70k all up,
    including the photon budget, optical and mechanical design,
    construction, software, and informal clinical demo. (I had a few
    friends over for drinks, and we looked at all of our blood signals every
    half hour or so. The data were crunched by some machine learning folks
    from USC into good-looking data that matched the physiological estimates
    based on sex, body mass and consumption rate.

    Customer was very pleased indeed. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    (The technique relies on a couple of patents that haven't quite
    expired--I may revisit it once they do.)

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical. on Sun May 8 17:24:47 2022
    On Sun, 8 May 2022 16:01:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sat, 7 May 2022 20:10:07 -0400, Phil Hobbs
    <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>>>
    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon >>>>>>>>>>>
    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold >>>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel >>>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can >>>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick >>>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>
    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show >>>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason, >>>> like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
    despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals
    underneath are good?

    You must not have dealt with many customers. ;)

    Many. Some have a sense of humor. This excludes Contracts, though.

    But none would like a dead-bug implementation (which I do only in the
    privacy of my own lab). Actually, I did do a project many years ago
    where I packaged the logic circuitry in a tub of paraffin wax, for
    mechanical robustness. If change or repair was need, melt wax, pour
    out, make change, pour wax back in.

    Joe Gwinn

    Depends.

    Ten years or so ago, I built a *working* transcutaneous blood glucose >measurement system, made mostly out of optics from my drawer and
    dead-bug electronics built in stomp boxes. (It also had some purchased >parts: an RC airplane servo and some aluminum angle from Servo City, a >diffraction grating, a LabJack 7 Pro, and a Thinkpad from eBay.

    I think you've described this in prior SED postings.


    The whole thing took six weeks by the calendar, and cost $70k all up, >including the photon budget, optical and mechanical design,
    construction, software, and informal clinical demo.

    For $70K, there was more than just you involved I assume.


    (I had a few
    friends over for drinks, and we looked at all of our blood signals every
    half hour or so. The data were crunched by some machine learning folks
    from USC into good-looking data that matched the physiological estimates >based on sex, body mass and consumption rate.

    Customer was very pleased indeed. ;)

    But remembers little else?



    (The technique relies on a couple of patents that haven't quite
    expired--I may revisit it once they do.)

    So you are free to use them?


    Joe Gwinn

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to All on Sun May 8 14:41:50 2022
    On Sun, 08 May 2022 15:10:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 16:01:16 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>wrote:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon >>>>>>>>>>
    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold >>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel >>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can >>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder >>>>>>>> mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick >>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1

    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show >>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason, >>>like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity >>>despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    Joe Gwinn

    I only need to please myself.

    And of course sell things. I built this and brought it into a meeting
    with a potential customer. They were very impressed.
    <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlnyna48107t0km/AADzQiRs7zww682eL_swPFONa?dl=0? >>
    It's a Pockels Cell driver. The production version is water cooled and >>makes 1200 volt pulses at 5 MHz.

    It's very pretty, and works even: nice Gaussian pulse.

    But how many prototypes did it take to be able to make those scalloped
    dremel line freehand?

    Joe Gwinn

    That one, just one. But I've had a lot of practice.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Sun May 8 18:42:00 2022
    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Sun, 8 May 2022 16:01:18 -0400, Phil Hobbs <pcdhSpamMeSenseless@electrooptical.net> wrote:

    <sniiiip>
    Ten years or so ago, I built a *working* transcutaneous blood
    glucose measurement system, made mostly out of optics from my
    drawer and dead-bug electronics built in stomp boxes. (It also had
    some purchased parts: an RC airplane servo and some aluminum angle
    from Servo City, a diffraction grating, a LabJack 7 Pro, and a
    Thinkpad from eBay.

    I think you've described this in prior SED postings.

    Yup. It's one of my most compelling technical war stories. (At least I
    don't get tired of telling it--listener mileage may vary!) ;)

    Last time we talked about it was in early 2020: <https://groups.google.com/g/sci.electronics.design/c/q29AQaupCyw/m/_R5bev3ZDQAJ>.

    The whole thing took six weeks by the calendar, and cost $70k all
    up, including the photon budget, optical and mechanical design,
    construction, software, and informal clinical demo.

    For $70K, there was more than just you involved I assume.

    Nope, just me. There were a few parts involved, some late nights, and
    of course the statutory minimum quantity of JB Weld. ;) It was neatly
    trimmed and painted flat black to make it less obvious.

    (I had a few friends over for drinks, and we looked at all of our
    blood signals every half hour or so. The data were crunched by
    some machine learning folks from USC into good-looking data that
    matched the physiological estimates based on sex, body mass and
    consumption rate.

    Customer was very pleased indeed. ;)

    But remembers little else?

    He was in California at the time.

    (The technique relies on a couple of patents that haven't quite
    expired--I may revisit it once they do.)

    So you are free to use them?

    Not till they expire. The founder got into the glue with some of his
    former investors, so the patent ownership is very unclear at this point.
    Thus it isn't worth pursuing, at least not without a lot of backing.

    I'd also need some machine learning folks to help out, because IIRC the detection algorithm wasn't anything straightforward such as spectral differencing. I wasn't privy to that part of the scheme, so it would
    have to be reinvented.

    Great gizmo though!

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Sun May 8 20:01:43 2022
    On 05/08/2022 03:41 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 08 May 2022 15:10:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 16:01:16 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>> wrote:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>>>
    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon >>>>>>>>>>>
    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold >>>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel >>>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can >>>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot.

    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick >>>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>>
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>
    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show >>>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1

    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason, >>>> like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
    despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    Joe Gwinn

    I only need to please myself.

    And of course sell things. I built this and brought it into a meeting
    with a potential customer. They were very impressed.

    <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlnyna48107t0km/AADzQiRs7zww682eL_swPFONa?dl=0? >>>
    It's a Pockels Cell driver. The production version is water cooled and
    makes 1200 volt pulses at 5 MHz.

    It's very pretty, and works even: nice Gaussian pulse.

    But how many prototypes did it take to be able to make those scalloped
    dremel line freehand?

    Joe Gwinn

    That one, just one. But I've had a lot of practice.



    https://www.tinaja.com/flut01.shtml

    Now what you do first is build an x/y axis milling machine and program
    it in PostScript...

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Sun May 8 20:30:35 2022
    On 05/08/2022 04:42 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Nope, just me. There were a few parts involved, some late nights, and
    of course the statutory minimum quantity of JB Weld. ;) It was neatly trimmed and painted flat black to make it less obvious.


    Was it a one-off or did your client intend to go into production?

    I did a project for a woman who was interested in Kirlian photography.
    My non-professional opinion was she was nuttier than a fruitcake but her
    money spend as well as any and she was happy with the outcome.

    At times I took a pass when I knew I couldn't deliver. For example one
    person wanted to develop a PPG heart rate monitor. It was a perfectly
    valid idea as evidenced by the number of devices on the market today but
    wasn't feasible in the '80s, at least not at the level of
    miniaturization for a consumer product.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com@21:1/5 to rbowman on Sun May 8 20:05:01 2022
    On Sun, 8 May 2022 20:01:43 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:

    On 05/08/2022 03:41 PM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    On Sun, 08 May 2022 15:10:38 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 16:01:16 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 17:27:48 -0400, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net>
    wrote:

    On Sat, 07 May 2022 13:18:48 -0700, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com >>>>> wrote:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 20:10:23 -0600, rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote: >>>>>>
    On 05/06/2022 08:30 AM, jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote: >>>>>>>> On Fri, 06 May 2022 14:23:14 GMT, Jan Panteltje
    <pNaonStpealmtje@yahoo.com> wrote:

    On a sunny day (Fri, 06 May 2022 07:04:26 -0700) it happened >>>>>>>>> jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote in
    <g8aa7httutkr62pphmi2k0376kvovt2fcj@4ax.com>:

    On Fri, 6 May 2022 12:01:38 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-05-05, Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>> John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> Wrote in message:r
    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This is
    1/2 oz copper,which dremels nicely.https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1Min order was 3 square feet,
    which is maybe a 10 year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to
    begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon >>>>>>>>>>>>
    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch gold >>>>>>>>>>>> plated boards with ferric chloride?


    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the nickel >>>>>>>>>>> can probably then be plated off leaving the copper which can >>>>>>>>>>> them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot. >>>>>>>>>>
    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias and solder
    mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 are for quick >>>>>>>>>> dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>>
    The big question is:
    What difference does it make for those small proto boards if it is gold plated?
    else it is just show.

    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will show >>>>>>>> etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1 >>>>>>>>
    Beautiful things work better.





    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason, >>>>> like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity >>>>> despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    Joe Gwinn

    I only need to please myself.

    And of course sell things. I built this and brought it into a meeting
    with a potential customer. They were very impressed.

    <https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlnyna48107t0km/AADzQiRs7zww682eL_swPFONa?dl=0?

    It's a Pockels Cell driver. The production version is water cooled and >>>> makes 1200 volt pulses at 5 MHz.

    It's very pretty, and works even: nice Gaussian pulse.

    But how many prototypes did it take to be able to make those scalloped
    dremel line freehand?

    Joe Gwinn

    That one, just one. But I've had a lot of practice.



    https://www.tinaja.com/flut01.shtml

    Now what you do first is build an x/y axis milling machine and program
    it in PostScript...


    We have a Tormach n/c milling machine that can do PCBs. And I was
    toying with a pantogtraph-Dremel thing. But freehand is a lot faster
    than either.



    --

    Anybody can count to one.

    - Robert Widlar

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Doe@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com on Mon May 9 08:38:12 2022
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:

    rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    rbowman <bowman@montana.com> wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Jan Panteltje wrote:
    jlarkin@highlandsniptechnology.com wrote:
    Jasen Betts wrote:
    Martin Rid <martin_riddle@verison.net> wrote:
    John Larkin Wrote:

    I was almost out of the ENIG gold-plated FR4 that I dremel >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for protocircuits, so we had Cirexx make us some more. This >>>>>>>>>>>>>> is 1/2 oz copper,which dremels
    nicely.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/wgzr56dx43z14rp/Gold_FR4_3x.jpg?raw=1

    Min order was 3 square feet, which is maybe a 10
    year supply.-- If a man will begin with certainties, he >>>>>>>>>>>>>> shall end with doubts, but if he will be content to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> begin with doubts he shall end in certainties.Francis Bacon >>>>>>>>>>>>>
    Certainly better than tin plate. Has anyone tried to etch >>>>>>>>>>>>> gold plated boards with ferric chloride?

    Gold is fairly inert, but Mercury will dissolve it. the >>>>>>>>>>>> nickel can probably then be plated off leaving the copper >>>>>>>>>>>> which can them be etched chemically.

    Seems kind of messy.

    Why dissolve it? The gold plating cost $150 a square foot. >>>>>>>>>>>
    If I want an ENIG etched PCB, I can just buy one, with vias >>>>>>>>>>> and solder mask and all that. The big slabs of gold plated FR4 >>>>>>>>>>> are for quick dermeled prototypes.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/yd19osiwz1z74s4/HV_Proto_2.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/pa9mu4ehtrjei8m/Z384_1.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>>>>
    https://www.dropbox.com/s/zaftysxtgclxj82/Z412_Proto.JPG?raw=1 >>>>>>>>>>
    The big question is: What difference does it make for those >>>>>>>>>> small proto boards if it is gold plated? else it is just show. >>>>>>>>>
    It solders beautifully and doesn't tarnish. Plain copper will >>>>>>>>> show etched fingerprints and grunge in a couple of weeks.

    https://www.dropbox.com/s/ejbuveodplo5m61/BreadBoards.jpg?raw=1 >>>>>>>>>
    Beautiful things work better.

    Solder it and spray on the conformal coating of your choice.

    No thanks. I like the gold.

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical
    reason, like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface
    resistivity despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    I only need to please myself.

    And of course sell things. I built this and brought it into a
    meeting with a potential customer. They were very impressed.

    https://www.dropbox.com/sh/nlnyna48107t0km/AADzQiRs7zww682eL_swPFONa?dl=0?

    It's a Pockels Cell driver. The production version is water cooled
    and makes 1200 volt pulses at 5 MHz.

    It's very pretty, and works even: nice Gaussian pulse.

    But how many prototypes did it take to be able to make those
    scalloped dremel line freehand?

    That one, just one. But I've had a lot of practice.

    https://www.tinaja.com/flut01.shtml

    Now what you do first is build an x/y axis milling machine and program
    it in PostScript...

    We have a Tormach n/c milling machine that can do PCBs. And I was toying
    with a pantogtraph-Dremel thing. But freehand is a lot faster than
    either.

    Did you get any use out of the dirt-cheap mini tablesaw?

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to rbowman on Mon May 9 11:05:54 2022
    rbowman wrote:
    On 05/08/2022 04:42 PM, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Nope, just me. There were a few parts involved, some late nights,
    and of course the statutory minimum quantity of JB Weld. ;) It was
    neatly trimmed and painted flat black to make it less obvious.


    Was it a one-off or did your client intend to go into production?


    It was a POC, not a production proto. I did a feasibility calculation
    to show that it could work, then a POC demo to show that it did in fact
    work.

    The idea was for the founder to use those data to raise some more dough,
    which he did, and then hire a CE firm with biomed experience to make a
    solid product, which they did not--they ran through what I discover was actually nearly $1.5E6 and produced, um, something apparently from their
    lower back.

    I posted a link to the whole story upthread.


    I did a project for a woman who was interested in Kirlian
    photography. My non-professional opinion was she was nuttier than a
    fruitcake but her money spend as well as any and she was happy with
    the outcome.

    Some Kirlian photos are pretty cool-looking--nothing wrong with making
    those. It's when people start getting into partly-baked spiritualism
    and stuff that they really start circling the drain. (Spiritualism is a dangerous delusion if you don't believe in the supernatural world, and
    even more dangerous if you do.)


    At times I took a pass when I knew I couldn't deliver. For example
    one person wanted to develop a PPG heart rate monitor. It was a
    perfectly valid idea as evidenced by the number of devices on the
    market today but wasn't feasible in the '80s, at least not at the
    level of miniaturization for a consumer product.

    Sure, nobody likes failures. I turned down one gig with a surgical
    instruments company who wanted to put RFID tags inside stainless steel
    surgical instruments, to reduce errors.

    Would have been great, except that to get approved, the RFID tag would
    have had to be inside the metal. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 9 11:36:53 2022
    whit3rd wrote:
    On Friday, May 6, 2022 at 10:56:23 AM UTC-7, Rich S wrote:

    ...I remember long ago a former
    co worker (who once ran elec assy lines at GE, Schenectady, NY)
    mention something called "Stay Bright" -- when ordering bare
    non-plated etched PCBs. Searching for that now turns up
    other unrelated things.

    Yeah, I recall that stuff; it just rubs on, and by electroless plating puts a bit
    of silver on a copper surface. Don't see any suppliers, but this shows up on a web search
    <https://www.protext.com//Metals/SilverChloridePlating1.htm>


    It's sold as "Cool Amp", intended for improving high-current bolted connections.

    https://www.cool-amp.com/cool-amp

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 9 09:53:19 2022
    On Sat, 7 May 2022 04:39:26 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
    wrote:

    Am 06.05.22 um 20:54 schrieb John Larkin:

    There is some liquid that you can dip copperclad into that plates it
    with tin. It's not any better than bare copper.


    This one is good and much better than copper:

    < >https://www.buerklin.com/de/Zinnpulver-f%C3%BCr-Glanzzinn-B%C3%A4der-Seno-3211/p/13L217
    >

    The Cu surface must be _absolutely_ clean. They have a special
    eraser rubber for it, quite abrasive. "Poliblock"

    For me. it works best to put the etched Bungard presensitized
    board without photo mask under UV again and then use the NaOH
    developper to remove the photo resist.

    cheers, Gerhard

    What does that do?

    Linecard. Services. News. Image Coming Soon. Service-Hotline. It's
    half English already.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 9 12:27:22 2022
    On Mon, 9 May 2022 21:16:03 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
    wrote:

    Am 09.05.22 um 18:53 schrieb John Larkin:
    On Sat, 7 May 2022 04:39:26 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
    wrote:

    Am 06.05.22 um 20:54 schrieb John Larkin:

    There is some liquid that you can dip copperclad into that plates it
    with tin. It's not any better than bare copper.


    This one is good and much better than copper:

    <
    https://www.buerklin.com/de/Zinnpulver-f%C3%BCr-Glanzzinn-B%C3%A4der-Seno-3211/p/13L217
    >

    The Cu surface must be _absolutely_ clean. They have a special
    eraser rubber for it, quite abrasive. "Poliblock"

    For me. it works best to put the etched Bungard presensitized
    board without photo mask under UV again and then use the NaOH
    developper to remove the photo resist.

    cheers, Gerhard

    What does that do?

    Linecard. Services. News. Image Coming Soon. Service-Hotline. It's
    half English already.



    The web site takes forever to load, it has an English section, too.
    But I sit in the glass house regarding my own site.
    I better don't throw rocks. :-(


    Oh, I see that now. The little pull-down thing in the corner.



    Product name: SENO 3211

    The bottle contains powder for 1 liter of a tin solution.
    It is dissolved in warm water, can be used at room temp.
    The bath creates a tin layer that is shiny, scratch proof,
    good enough for edge contacts. Simply place the copper board
    into the solution. An hour should do. The longer, the thicker.
    Manufacturer claims up to 5 um.


    I've used a tin plate solution like that one. Didn't like it.


    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Gerhard Hoffmann@21:1/5 to All on Mon May 9 21:16:03 2022
    Am 09.05.22 um 18:53 schrieb John Larkin:
    On Sat, 7 May 2022 04:39:26 +0200, Gerhard Hoffmann <dk4xp@arcor.de>
    wrote:

    Am 06.05.22 um 20:54 schrieb John Larkin:

    There is some liquid that you can dip copperclad into that plates it
    with tin. It's not any better than bare copper.


    This one is good and much better than copper:

    <
    https://www.buerklin.com/de/Zinnpulver-f%C3%BCr-Glanzzinn-B%C3%A4der-Seno-3211/p/13L217
    >

    The Cu surface must be _absolutely_ clean. They have a special
    eraser rubber for it, quite abrasive. "Poliblock"

    For me. it works best to put the etched Bungard presensitized
    board without photo mask under UV again and then use the NaOH
    developper to remove the photo resist.

    cheers, Gerhard

    What does that do?

    Linecard. Services. News. Image Coming Soon. Service-Hotline. It's
    half English already.



    The web site takes forever to load, it has an English section, too.
    But I sit in the glass house regarding my own site.
    I better don't throw rocks. :-(


    Product name: SENO 3211

    The bottle contains powder for 1 liter of a tin solution.
    It is dissolved in warm water, can be used at room temp.
    The bath creates a tin layer that is shiny, scratch proof,
    good enough for edge contacts. Simply place the copper board
    into the solution. An hour should do. The longer, the thicker.
    Manufacturer claims up to 5 um.

    Ordinary FR4 board, tin-plated maybe 5 years ago, laying open
    in a plastic drawer:

    <
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/52061042842/in/dateposted-public/
    >

    This is the manufacturer:
    < https://www.seno.de/seno-3211-glanzzinn >



    I also have a silver solution. It contains mostly KCN and AgCN.
    The little bottle probably has enough to kill all your fiends.

    <
    https://www.flickr.com/photos/137684711@N07/52062322254/in/dateposted-public/
    >

    Works fine, too.

    Cheers, Gerhard

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Mon May 9 20:09:59 2022
    On 05/09/2022 09:05 AM, Phil Hobbs wrote:


    I did a project for a woman who was interested in Kirlian
    photography. My non-professional opinion was she was nuttier than a
    fruitcake but her money spend as well as any and she was happy with
    the outcome.

    Some Kirlian photos are pretty cool-looking--nothing wrong with making
    those. It's when people start getting into partly-baked spiritualism
    and stuff that they really start circling the drain. (Spiritualism is a dangerous delusion if you don't believe in the supernatural world, and
    even more dangerous if you do.)

    I did get some nice photos but the woman signing the checks was
    definitely into auras. I learned quite a bit about Eastman Kodak's
    specialized film and photographic techniques. Nothing I ever used again
    but I've always been too curious for my own good.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Miles, KE5FX@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Mon May 9 21:30:39 2022
    On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:42:40 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Au contraire. A nice-looking dead bug gizmo in an aluminum stomp box is
    easy to make and IME really makes the punters take an interest in how
    the gizmo works.

    I don't want the customer to think I'm David Copperfield.
    I want them to think I'm Gandalf.

    ("But Gandalf never actually DOES much of anything. He just stands around stroking his beard and offering advice that nobody dares question." "Exactly.")

    -- john, KE5FX

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Hobbs@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 10 10:22:46 2022
    John Miles, KE5FX wrote:
    On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 10:42:40 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Au contraire. A nice-looking dead bug gizmo in an aluminum stomp box is
    easy to make and IME really makes the punters take an interest in how
    the gizmo works.

    I don't want the customer to think I'm David Copperfield.
    I want them to think I'm Gandalf.

    ("But Gandalf never actually DOES much of anything. He just stands around stroking his beard and offering advice that nobody dares question." "Exactly.")

    -- john, KE5FX


    I'm holding out for Oberon's job from Amber--hanging out in the basement
    and casually changing the structure of reality. ;)

    Cheers

    Phil Hobbs

    --
    Dr Philip C D Hobbs
    Principal Consultant
    ElectroOptical Innovations LLC / Hobbs ElectroOptics
    Optics, Electro-optics, Photonics, Analog Electronics
    Briarcliff Manor NY 10510

    http://electrooptical.net
    http://hobbs-eo.com

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Phil Hobbs on Tue May 10 12:05:20 2022
    On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 5:10:14 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Joe Gwinn wrote:

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
    like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals underneath are good?

    Well, I'm not sure 'looks like a Yugo' is the apt image; the Yugo, after
    all, was a fine Italian design. But, yeah, when the discussion of should-we-buy
    happens, you don't want a visible blemish to be part of the discussion.

    Science labs are full of lashups-that-work, though.
    I kinda like the caveman craftsmanship look, and have spent a great
    deal of time admiring vacuum tubes... but don't often buy them.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From rbowman@21:1/5 to All on Tue May 10 19:25:09 2022
    On 05/10/2022 01:05 PM, whit3rd wrote:
    On Saturday, May 7, 2022 at 5:10:14 PM UTC-7, Phil Hobbs wrote:
    Joe Gwinn wrote:

    As engineers, don't we need to come up with a pseudo technical reason,
    like a gold surface is smoother and keeps its low surface resistivity
    despite sweaty palms and caustic looks?

    So something that looks like a Yugo is fine, as long as the mechanicals
    underneath are good?

    Well, I'm not sure 'looks like a Yugo' is the apt image; the Yugo, after
    all, was a fine Italian design. But, yeah, when the discussion of should-we-buy
    happens, you don't want a visible blemish to be part of the discussion.

    The Fiat 128 was no beauty and translating it to Serbo-Croatian didn't
    help. While I was not in favor of the whole fiasco bombing the Zastava
    factory was a plus.

    I may be a little OCD but while my shop space looks like the aftermath
    of a hurricane I always wanted anything produced for public consumption
    to look good.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)