• Kamyr - Norwegian wod.

    From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 21 01:24:31 2022
    David Brown has suggested that I don';t know as much about Norway as I ought, but I am a full bottle on one aspect Norwegian industrial history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Richter_(inventor)

    worked for the company Kamyr, which made and sold equipment for the paper industry. I met him when he and his wife visited Tasmania in the 1950s.

    Around 1950 Kamyr sold a continuous digester to the Associated Pulp and Paper Mills at Burnie, Tasmania where my father was research manager .

    It was the sixth one sold and the only one modified to run my father's patented two stage cook.

    Instead of sticking fresh NaOH solution into the top of the digester with the raw wood chips, his scheme stuck it halfway down and took out the depleted solution with the digested wood chips at the bottom, but then piped it up to the top of the digester
    where it was still strong enough to start the process of digesting the raw wood chip. That let you get by with 16 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, rather than 22 tons.

    Obviously this was a crude approximation to counter-current cooking.

    Mu father eventually worked out a scheme to run his digester fully counter current and it worked, and the company patented the idea. That got by with 12 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, and cooked the chips even faster.

    Johan Richter had spent ten years trying to get his counter-current scheme to work, and was impressed. Kamyr - as an organisation - wasn't and never paid any royalties, though they did sell their digesters set up to run counter-current.

    Johan Richter's history of the company reflects the official line, but the copy he sent to my father had a rather more complimentary handwritten message on the title page.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 21 10:13:23 2022
    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

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    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Clive Arthur on Thu Apr 21 03:57:43 2022
    On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 7:13:30 PM UTC+10, Clive Arthur wrote:
    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Who needs repeated vowels anyway. Repeated consonants are another matter.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Thu Apr 21 12:01:38 2022
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    I wish he'd research the difference between its and it's.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Thu Apr 21 15:10:32 2022
    On 4/21/2022 4:24 AM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    David Brown has suggested that I don';t know as much about Norway as I ought, but I am a full bottle on one aspect Norwegian industrial history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Richter_(inventor)

    worked for the company Kamyr, which made and sold equipment for the paper industry. I met him when he and his wife visited Tasmania in the 1950s.

    Around 1950 Kamyr sold a continuous digester to the Associated Pulp and Paper Mills at Burnie, Tasmania where my father was research manager .

    It was the sixth one sold and the only one modified to run my father's patented two stage cook.

    Instead of sticking fresh NaOH solution into the top of the digester with the raw wood chips, his scheme stuck it halfway down and took out the depleted solution with the digested wood chips at the bottom, but then piped it up to the top of the
    digester where it was still strong enough to start the process of digesting the raw wood chip. That let you get by with 16 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, rather than 22 tons.

    Obviously this was a crude approximation to counter-current cooking.

    Mu father eventually worked out a scheme to run his digester fully counter current and it worked, and the company patented the idea. That got by with 12 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, and cooked the chips even faster.

    Johan Richter had spent ten years trying to get his counter-current scheme to work, and was impressed. Kamyr - as an organisation - wasn't and never paid any royalties, though they did sell their digesters set up to run counter-current.

    Johan Richter's history of the company reflects the official line, but the copy he sent to my father had a rather more complimentary handwritten message on the title page.


    IDK if it's this way everywhere but paper plants in the US tend to stink
    like shit, I'd rather hang out down wind of a sewage treatment facility
    than a paper plant.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to bitrex on Thu Apr 21 12:37:18 2022
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:10:32 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 4/21/2022 4:24 AM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    David Brown has suggested that I don';t know as much about Norway as I ought, but I am a full bottle on one aspect Norwegian industrial history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Richter_(inventor)

    worked for the company Kamyr, which made and sold equipment for the paper industry. I met him when he and his wife visited Tasmania in the 1950s.

    Around 1950 Kamyr sold a continuous digester to the Associated Pulp and Paper Mills at Burnie, Tasmania where my father was research manager .

    It was the sixth one sold and the only one modified to run my father's patented two stage cook.

    Instead of sticking fresh NaOH solution into the top of the digester with the raw wood chips, his scheme stuck it halfway down and took out the depleted solution with the digested wood chips at the bottom, but then piped it up to the top of the
    digester where it was still strong enough to start the process of digesting the raw wood chip. That let you get by with 16 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, rather than 22 tons.

    Obviously this was a crude approximation to counter-current cooking.

    Mu father eventually worked out a scheme to run his digester fully counter current and it worked, and the company patented the idea. That got by with 12 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, and cooked the chips even faster.

    Johan Richter had spent ten years trying to get his counter-current scheme to work, and was impressed. Kamyr - as an organisation - wasn't and never paid any royalties, though they did sell their digesters set up to run counter-current.

    Johan Richter's history of the company reflects the official line, but the copy he sent to my father had a rather more complimentary handwritten message on the title page.


    IDK if it's this way everywhere but paper plants in the US tend to stink
    like shit, I'd rather hang out down wind of a sewage treatment facility
    than a paper plant.


    I have toured the sewers of Paris and the giant wastewater treatment
    plant in se San Francisco. The sf tour was much more interesting and
    smelled a lot better.

    SF has one combined sewage and runoff system, but it doesn't rain a
    lot here so that's not too unreasonable.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Fri Apr 22 00:37:49 2022
    On 4/21/2022 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    I wish he'd research the difference between its and it's.


    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to All on Thu Apr 21 23:32:30 2022
    On 21/04/2022 22:37, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    I wish he'd research the difference between  its  and  it's.


    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8

    Yes, a song about sexual frustration provoking arson.

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Clive Arthur on Fri Apr 22 01:34:28 2022
    On 4/22/2022 1:32, Clive Arthur wrote:
    On 21/04/2022 22:37, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    I wish he'd research the difference between  its  and  it's.


    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8

    Yes, a song about sexual frustration provoking arson.


    Above all a very beautiful song.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From John Larkin@21:1/5 to jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology. on Thu Apr 21 15:45:51 2022
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 12:37:18 -0700, John Larkin <jlarkin@highland_atwork_technology.com> wrote:

    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:10:32 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 4/21/2022 4:24 AM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    David Brown has suggested that I don';t know as much about Norway as I ought, but I am a full bottle on one aspect Norwegian industrial history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Richter_(inventor)

    worked for the company Kamyr, which made and sold equipment for the paper industry. I met him when he and his wife visited Tasmania in the 1950s.

    Around 1950 Kamyr sold a continuous digester to the Associated Pulp and Paper Mills at Burnie, Tasmania where my father was research manager .

    It was the sixth one sold and the only one modified to run my father's patented two stage cook.

    Instead of sticking fresh NaOH solution into the top of the digester with the raw wood chips, his scheme stuck it halfway down and took out the depleted solution with the digested wood chips at the bottom, but then piped it up to the top of the
    digester where it was still strong enough to start the process of digesting the raw wood chip. That let you get by with 16 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, rather than 22 tons.

    Obviously this was a crude approximation to counter-current cooking.

    Mu father eventually worked out a scheme to run his digester fully counter current and it worked, and the company patented the idea. That got by with 12 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, and cooked the chips even faster.

    Johan Richter had spent ten years trying to get his counter-current scheme to work, and was impressed. Kamyr - as an organisation - wasn't and never paid any royalties, though they did sell their digesters set up to run counter-current.

    Johan Richter's history of the company reflects the official line, but the copy he sent to my father had a rather more complimentary handwritten message on the title page.


    IDK if it's this way everywhere but paper plants in the US tend to stink >>like shit, I'd rather hang out down wind of a sewage treatment facility >>than a paper plant.


    I have toured the sewers of Paris and the giant wastewater treatment
    plant in se San Francisco. The sf tour was much more interesting and
    smelled a lot better.

    SF has one combined sewage and runoff system, but it doesn't rain a
    lot here so that's not too unreasonable.


    The Paris sewer visit includes a cafe, which makes lunch interesting.

    --

    If a man will begin with certainties, he shall end with doubts,
    but if he will be content to begin with doubts he shall end in certainties. Francis Bacon

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Thu Apr 21 19:03:33 2022
    Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    -----------------------------------

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8

    ** Brilliant song and recording.
    Believed to be the first use of a Sitar or any Indian instrument on a pop song.

    Kicked off the whole Indian classical sound in the late 60s - the Rolling Stones
    ( Paint it Black) and Eric Burdon ( Monterey) followed up with hit songs
    using the same musical ideas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASviQQinEbk



    ..... Phil

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu Apr 21 21:22:29 2022
    On 4/21/2022 3:37 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:10:32 -0400, bitrex <user@example.net> wrote:

    On 4/21/2022 4:24 AM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    David Brown has suggested that I don';t know as much about Norway as I ought, but I am a full bottle on one aspect Norwegian industrial history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Richter_(inventor)

    worked for the company Kamyr, which made and sold equipment for the paper industry. I met him when he and his wife visited Tasmania in the 1950s.

    Around 1950 Kamyr sold a continuous digester to the Associated Pulp and Paper Mills at Burnie, Tasmania where my father was research manager .

    It was the sixth one sold and the only one modified to run my father's patented two stage cook.

    Instead of sticking fresh NaOH solution into the top of the digester with the raw wood chips, his scheme stuck it halfway down and took out the depleted solution with the digested wood chips at the bottom, but then piped it up to the top of the
    digester where it was still strong enough to start the process of digesting the raw wood chip. That let you get by with 16 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, rather than 22 tons.

    Obviously this was a crude approximation to counter-current cooking.

    Mu father eventually worked out a scheme to run his digester fully counter current and it worked, and the company patented the idea. That got by with 12 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, and cooked the chips even faster.

    Johan Richter had spent ten years trying to get his counter-current scheme to work, and was impressed. Kamyr - as an organisation - wasn't and never paid any royalties, though they did sell their digesters set up to run counter-current.

    Johan Richter's history of the company reflects the official line, but the copy he sent to my father had a rather more complimentary handwritten message on the title page.


    IDK if it's this way everywhere but paper plants in the US tend to stink
    like shit, I'd rather hang out down wind of a sewage treatment facility
    than a paper plant.


    I have toured the sewers of Paris and the giant wastewater treatment
    plant in se San Francisco. The sf tour was much more interesting and
    smelled a lot better.

    SF has one combined sewage and runoff system, but it doesn't rain a
    lot here so that's not too unreasonable.


    I think sewage treatment plants have gotten a lot better about hydrogen
    sulfide and other noxious fume releases, I can't think of a time I've
    driven past one where it smelled very foul. Maybe paper plants are
    better now too, the one I'm remembering is from maybe 20 years ago in
    northern New Hampshire, a really large facility and boy did it stink
    that day from several miles away.

    When I was a kid there was a chocolate bar factory a few towns over from
    the town I grew up in, it often smelled like hot cocoa on summer days
    driving by with my late father. But imagine being a neighbor and
    smelling the hot cocoa for hours, days, weeks at a time...probably gets
    old fast

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to John Larkin on Thu Apr 21 20:10:35 2022
    On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 5:01:49 AM UTC+10, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <cl...@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it Good, Norwegian wood?
    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    John Larkin is turning into Flyguy. He can't tell the difference between typos and spelling errors.

    I wish he'd research the difference between its and it's.

    I'm well aware of the difference, but typos happen anyway. John Larkin is actually channeling James Arthur here.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to bitrex on Thu Apr 21 20:33:03 2022
    On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 5:10:42 AM UTC+10, bitrex wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 4:24 AM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    David Brown has suggested that I don';t know as much about Norway as I ought, but I am a full bottle on one aspect Norwegian industrial history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Richter_(inventor)

    worked for the company Kamyr, which made and sold equipment for the paper industry. I met him when he and his wife visited Tasmania in the 1950s.

    Around 1950 Kamyr sold a continuous digester to the Associated Pulp and Paper Mills at Burnie, Tasmania where my father was research manager .

    It was the sixth one sold and the only one modified to run my father's patented two stage cook.

    Instead of sticking fresh NaOH solution into the top of the digester with the raw wood chips, his scheme stuck it halfway down and took out the depleted solution with the digested wood chips at the bottom, but then piped it up to the top of the
    digester where it was still strong enough to start the process of digesting the raw wood chip. That let you get by with 16 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, rather than 22 tons.

    Obviously this was a crude approximation to counter-current cooking.

    Mu father eventually worked out a scheme to run his digester fully counter current and it worked, and the company patented the idea. That got by with 12 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, and cooked the chips even faster.

    Johan Richter had spent ten years trying to get his counter-current scheme to work, and was impressed. Kamyr - as an organisation - wasn't and never paid any royalties, though they did sell their digesters set up to run counter-current.

    Johan Richter's history of the company reflects the official line, but the copy he sent to my father had a rather more complimentary handwritten message on the title page.

    IDK if it's this way everywhere but paper plants in the US tend to stink like shit, I'd rather hang out down wind of a sewage treatment facility than a paper plant.

    That's only paper plants that use the Kraft process, which use NaS as well as NaOH in the process of turning wood chips in to paper pulp.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kraft_process

    The stink is mercaptans rather skatole (which doesn't contain any sulphur at all).

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skatole

    The joke is that if you run the Kraft process in a counter-current continuous digester as described in my father's patent, the counter-current wash of the pulp as it comes out of the digester means that there isn't as much time for mercaptans to form,
    and there's a lot less stink.

    The counter-current process was trialed in a Kraft process mill in New Zealand a few years after it had been patented, and my father was over there for the trials, and everybody noticed that the mill stank a whole lot less.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to bitrex on Thu Apr 21 23:58:28 2022
    On 4/21/2022 11:46 PM, bitrex wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 10:03 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
      Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    -----------------------------------

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?
      >
    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8

    ** Brilliant song and recording.
      Believed to be the first use of a Sitar or any Indian instrument on
    a pop song.

    They were still experimenting with stereo too I think, panning the lead vocals that far right for much of the song would be rare for a pop song today, keeping the lead vocal front and center is where you usually find
    it.

    Reminds me of what seems like an odd decision to pan Eddie Van Halen's
    guitar hard left and the reverb to the right thru most of Van Halen 1:

    <https://youtu.be/Y-IUB62zDlA>

    Maybe they wanted to make it sound like a live concert is my guess with
    the panning choices on that album.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From bitrex@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Thu Apr 21 23:46:38 2022
    On 4/21/2022 10:03 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
    Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    -----------------------------------

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?
    >
    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8

    ** Brilliant song and recording.
    Believed to be the first use of a Sitar or any Indian instrument on a pop song.

    They were still experimenting with stereo too I think, panning the lead
    vocals that far right for much of the song would be rare for a pop song
    today, keeping the lead vocal front and center is where you usually find it.

    Reminds me of what seems like an odd decision to pan Eddie Van Halen's
    guitar hard left and the reverb to the right thru most of Van Halen 1:

    <https://youtu.be/Y-IUB62zDlA>

    Kicked off the whole Indian classical sound in the late 60s - the Rolling Stones
    ( Paint it Black) and Eric Burdon ( Monterey) followed up with hit songs
    using the same musical ideas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASviQQinEbk

    The Mahavishnu Orchestra - "Meeting Of The Spirits":

    <https://youtu.be/WhzDBGiOTvg>

    Still a barn-burner 50 years later.

    ..... Phil




    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Fri Apr 22 14:04:48 2022
    On 4/22/2022 5:03, Phil Allison wrote:
    Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    -----------------------------------

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?
    >
    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8

    ** Brilliant song and recording.
    Believed to be the first use of a Sitar or any Indian instrument on a pop song.

    Kicked off the whole Indian classical sound in the late 60s - the Rolling Stones
    ( Paint it Black) and Eric Burdon ( Monterey) followed up with hit songs
    using the same musical ideas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASviQQinEbk



    ..... Phil


    Hah! Had never noticed that it is a sitar in "Paint it Black".
    And to me the is "the" Rolling Stones song (I also like many
    others but this one stands out).

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Anthony William Sloman@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Fri Apr 22 08:16:32 2022
    On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:04:58 PM UTC+10, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 4/22/2022 5:03, Phil Allison wrote:
    Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    -----------------------------------

    Isn't it Good, Norwegian wood?

    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) Maybe he meant it.

    Of course I did. It's a far-fetched joke. Kamyr was a branch of the Norwegian wood processing industry.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8

    ** Brilliant song and recording.
    Believed to be the first use of a Sitar or any Indian instrument on a pop song.

    Kicked off the whole Indian classical sound in the late 60s - the Rolling Stones
    ( Paint it Black) and Eric Burdon ( Monterey) followed up with hit songs using the same musical ideas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASviQQinEbk

    Hah! Had never noticed that it is a sitar in "Paint it Black".
    And to me the is "the" Rolling Stones song (I also like many
    others but this one stands out).

    "Norwegian Wood" is Beatles - Lennon/McCartney, if mostly Lennon - from 1965.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Wood_(This_Bird_Has_Flown)

    The Rolling Stones may have been almost as famous, bu they never struck me as being in the same league.

    --
    Bill Sloman, Sydney

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
    * Origin: fsxNet Usenet Gateway (21:1/5)
  • From Ricky@21:1/5 to bitrex on Fri Apr 22 09:21:18 2022
    On Thursday, April 21, 2022 at 9:22:38 PM UTC-4, bitrex wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 3:37 PM, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 15:10:32 -0400, bitrex <us...@example.net> wrote:

    On 4/21/2022 4:24 AM, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    David Brown has suggested that I don';t know as much about Norway as I ought, but I am a full bottle on one aspect Norwegian industrial history.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Johan_Richter_(inventor)

    worked for the company Kamyr, which made and sold equipment for the paper industry. I met him when he and his wife visited Tasmania in the 1950s.

    Around 1950 Kamyr sold a continuous digester to the Associated Pulp and Paper Mills at Burnie, Tasmania where my father was research manager .

    It was the sixth one sold and the only one modified to run my father's patented two stage cook.

    Instead of sticking fresh NaOH solution into the top of the digester with the raw wood chips, his scheme stuck it halfway down and took out the depleted solution with the digested wood chips at the bottom, but then piped it up to the top of the
    digester where it was still strong enough to start the process of digesting the raw wood chip. That let you get by with 16 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, rather than 22 tons.

    Obviously this was a crude approximation to counter-current cooking.

    Mu father eventually worked out a scheme to run his digester fully counter current and it worked, and the company patented the idea. That got by with 12 tons of NaOH per hundred tons of wood chips, and cooked the chips even faster.

    Johan Richter had spent ten years trying to get his counter-current scheme to work, and was impressed. Kamyr - as an organisation - wasn't and never paid any royalties, though they did sell their digesters set up to run counter-current.

    Johan Richter's history of the company reflects the official line, but the copy he sent to my father had a rather more complimentary handwritten message on the title page.


    IDK if it's this way everywhere but paper plants in the US tend to stink >> like shit, I'd rather hang out down wind of a sewage treatment facility >> than a paper plant.


    I have toured the sewers of Paris and the giant wastewater treatment
    plant in se San Francisco. The sf tour was much more interesting and smelled a lot better.

    SF has one combined sewage and runoff system, but it doesn't rain a
    lot here so that's not too unreasonable.

    I think sewage treatment plants have gotten a lot better about hydrogen sulfide and other noxious fume releases, I can't think of a time I've
    driven past one where it smelled very foul. Maybe paper plants are
    better now too, the one I'm remembering is from maybe 20 years ago in northern New Hampshire, a really large facility and boy did it stink
    that day from several miles away.

    When I was a kid there was a chocolate bar factory a few towns over from
    the town I grew up in, it often smelled like hot cocoa on summer days driving by with my late father. But imagine being a neighbor and
    smelling the hot cocoa for hours, days, weeks at a time...probably gets
    old fast

    I think it is Seattle that has a pulp mill near the airport. You walk out of the building and WHAM! Welcome to Seattle!

    I'll take hot cocoa any day!

    --

    Rick C.

    - Get 1,000 miles of free Supercharging
    - Tesla referral code - https://ts.la/richard11209

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  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Anthony William Sloman on Fri Apr 22 20:08:44 2022
    On 4/22/2022 18:16, Anthony William Sloman wrote:
    On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:04:58 PM UTC+10, Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    On 4/22/2022 5:03, Phil Allison wrote:
    Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    -----------------------------------

    Isn't it Good, Norwegian wood?

    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) Maybe he meant it.

    Of course I did. It's a far-fetched joke. Kamyr was a branch of the Norwegian wood processing industry.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8

    ** Brilliant song and recording.
    Believed to be the first use of a Sitar or any Indian instrument on a pop song.

    Kicked off the whole Indian classical sound in the late 60s - the Rolling Stones
    ( Paint it Black) and Eric Burdon ( Monterey) followed up with hit songs >>> using the same musical ideas.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASviQQinEbk

    Hah! Had never noticed that it is a sitar in "Paint it Black".
    And to me the is "the" Rolling Stones song (I also like many
    others but this one stands out).

    "Norwegian Wood" is Beatles - Lennon/McCartney, if mostly Lennon - from 1965.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Wood_(This_Bird_Has_Flown)

    The Rolling Stones may have been almost as famous, bu they never struck me as being in the same league.


    Well nobody is in the league of the Beatles of course, nobody
    can even come close.
    But many - myself included - would argue that the Stones are
    pretty much in a league of their own, plenty of great, memorable
    songs they did in the 60-s.

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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Fri Apr 22 16:36:15 2022
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 23:32:30 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/04/2022 22:37, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    I wish he'd research the difference between its and it's.


    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.
    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8>

    Yes, a song about sexual frustration provoking arson.

    Teasing leading to furniture combustion in a fireplace.

    Hardly rises to the level arson. Vandalism?

    I'm not sure what it would be called in the US.

    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Dimiter Popoff on Fri Apr 22 14:28:15 2022
    Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    =================

    "Norwegian Wood" is Beatles - Lennon/McCartney, if mostly Lennon - from 1965.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Wood_(This_Bird_Has_Flown)

    The Rolling Stones may have been almost as famous, bu they never struck me as being in the same league.

    Well nobody is in the league of the Beatles of course, nobody
    can even come close.


    ** Here is a list of all Beatles songs ever released.

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/

    I counted 341 and can recall the sound of most of them.

    IMO there were just a few good Beatles covers - like this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBGBBMLZ6bQ


    ...... Phil

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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Fri Apr 22 14:33:15 2022
    Joe Gwinn wrote:
    =============

    Yes, a song about sexual frustration provoking arson.
    Teasing leading to furniture combustion in a fireplace.

    Hardly rises to the level arson. Vandalism?

    ** Not a crime at all.

    But the owner of the chair or whatever is entitled to compensation.


    ..... Phil

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  • From Phil Allison@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Fri Apr 22 15:43:55 2022
    Phil Allison wrote:
    ============================

    IMO there were just a few good Beatles covers - like this one:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F2sn2rQiXo


    .... Phil

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  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Sat Apr 23 02:54:50 2022
    On 4/23/2022 0:28, Phil Allison wrote:
    Dimiter Popoff wrote:
    =================

    "Norwegian Wood" is Beatles - Lennon/McCartney, if mostly Lennon - from 1965.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norwegian_Wood_(This_Bird_Has_Flown)

    The Rolling Stones may have been almost as famous, bu they never struck me as being in the same league.

    Well nobody is in the league of the Beatles of course, nobody
    can even come close.


    ** Here is a list of all Beatles songs ever released.

    https://www.beatlesbible.com/songs/

    I counted 341 and can recall the sound of most of them.

    IMO there were just a few good Beatles covers - like this one:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SBGBBMLZ6bQ


    ...... Phil




    I was sceptic about the cover but it was not bad at all actually.
    And the song is anything but easy to do I think.

    My take on the "best cover I ever listened to" is the Beatles
    cover of Chuck Berry's "Rock and Roll Music" (with G. Martin at the
    piano IIRC). Among other things John had this incredible voice.
    One can hear how impeccable his singing is in the stereo version
    of "I Should Have Known Better", one channel is just his voice.

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  • From Dimiter_Popoff@21:1/5 to Phil Allison on Sat Apr 23 03:08:28 2022
    On 4/23/2022 1:43, Phil Allison wrote:
    Phil Allison wrote:
    ============================

    IMO there were just a few good Beatles covers - like this one:


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4F2sn2rQiXo


    .... Phil



    Aaah these girls are really good, they don't try to be too creative,
    just cover the songs as they are. And they do it really well, it is
    not just "Nowhere Man".

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  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Wed Apr 27 12:57:14 2022
    On 22/04/2022 21:36, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 23:32:30 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/04/2022 22:37, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    I wish he'd research the difference between  its  and  it's.


    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.
    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8>

    Yes, a song about sexual frustration provoking arson.

    Teasing leading to furniture combustion in a fireplace.

    Hardly rises to the level arson. Vandalism?

    I'm not sure what it would be called in the US.

    Joe Gwinn

    I had always thought it meant setting the room on fire. Seems I'm not
    alone...

    <Wikipedia>

    McCartney commented on the final verse of the song: "In our world the
    guy had to have some sort of revenge. It could have meant I lit a fire
    to keep myself warm, and wasn't the decor of her house wonderful? But it didn't, it meant I burned the fucking place down as an act of revenge,
    and then we left it there and went into the instrumental."

    </Wikipedia>

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Wed Apr 27 12:56:58 2022
    On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 12:57:14 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 22/04/2022 21:36, Joe Gwinn wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 23:32:30 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/04/2022 22:37, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    I wish he'd research the difference between its and it's.


    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.
    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8>

    Yes, a song about sexual frustration provoking arson.

    Teasing leading to furniture combustion in a fireplace.

    Hardly rises to the level arson. Vandalism?

    I'm not sure what it would be called in the US.

    Joe Gwinn

    I had always thought it meant setting the room on fire. Seems I'm not >alone...

    <Wikipedia>

    McCartney commented on the final verse of the song: "In our world the
    guy had to have some sort of revenge. It could have meant I lit a fire
    to keep myself warm, and wasn't the decor of her house wonderful? But it >didn't, it meant I burned the fucking place down as an act of revenge,
    and then we left it there and went into the instrumental."

    </Wikipedia>

    Hmm. Well, Counselor, you have a point there. So it was arson.

    Not that anything ever happened in consequence.

    Joe Gwinn

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  • From whit3rd@21:1/5 to Ricky on Wed Apr 27 13:01:48 2022
    On Friday, April 22, 2022 at 9:21:22 AM UTC-7, Ricky wrote:

    I think it is Seattle that has a pulp mill near the airport. You walk out of the building and WHAM! Welcome to Seattle!

    The main airport (Seattle-Tacoma international) did get some of the famed Aroma of Tacoma...

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  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Wed Apr 27 20:22:27 2022
    On 2022-04-22, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 23:32:30 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/04/2022 22:37, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    I wish he'd research the difference between  its  and  it's.


    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.
    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8>

    Yes, a song about sexual frustration provoking arson.

    Teasing leading to furniture combustion in a fireplace.

    There wasn't a chair.

    --
    Jasen.

    --- SoupGate-Win32 v1.05
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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org on Thu Apr 28 12:15:00 2022
    On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 20:22:27 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-04-22, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 23:32:30 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/04/2022 22:37, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    I wish he'd research the difference between its and it's.


    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.
    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8>

    Yes, a song about sexual frustration provoking arson.

    Teasing leading to furniture combustion in a fireplace.

    There wasn't a chair.

    I noticed that now as well, after the quote from a Beetle in the Wiki
    article.

    But I recall two versions of the lyrics, one saying "I once met a girl
    ...", the other saying that "I once had a girl ...", the difference
    being the implications of had versus met. This was always bothering
    me.

    Later, it came to me that the "had" story given in the Wiki didn't
    hold up:

    If the girl was already a mistress, there would not likely be any
    tease involved, and if her apartment had in fact been set alight,
    there would be no mystery as to who set the fire, or why for that
    matter, and we would have seen news reports of a real arson
    prosecution. Which never happened.

    The "met" story makes more sense. In that case, a tease could well
    have happened, and it's entirely possible that the girl did not know
    exactly who her guest was. If no accelerant was used, the fire
    investigators could well have had difficulty showing that this was
    anything more than a stove left on or the like.

    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Clive Arthur@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Thu Apr 28 18:07:23 2022
    On 28/04/2022 17:15, Joe Gwinn wrote:

    <snip>

    But I recall two versions of the lyrics, one saying "I once met a girl
    ...", the other saying that "I once had a girl ...", the difference
    being the implications of had versus met. This was always bothering
    me.

    The "I once had a girl" line is a feed for "Or should I say, she once
    had me". In this context the meaning of the second 'had' is 'fooled',
    which is common English informal usage.

    --
    Cheers
    Clive

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  • From Joe Gwinn@21:1/5 to clive@nowaytoday.co.uk on Thu Apr 28 13:26:36 2022
    On Thu, 28 Apr 2022 18:07:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 28/04/2022 17:15, Joe Gwinn wrote:

    <snip>

    But I recall two versions of the lyrics, one saying "I once met a girl
    ...", the other saying that "I once had a girl ...", the difference
    being the implications of had versus met. This was always bothering
    me.

    The "I once had a girl" line is a feed for "Or should I say, she once
    had me". In this context the meaning of the second 'had' is 'fooled',
    which is common English informal usage.

    Yep, and I also read it that way.

    But met can also be used two ways, the second implying intent to meet
    versus accidental meeting.

    Joe Gwinn

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  • From Mike@21:1/5 to joegwinn@comcast.net on Thu Apr 28 18:59:58 2022
    In article <klel6h5hu0bqdvr9i6q0a050kjf5v96kce@4ax.com>,
    Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:

    But I recall two versions of the lyrics, one saying "I once met a girl
    ...", the other saying that "I once had a girl ..."

    I suspect a dual meaning of "had" in Lennon's wordplay is relevant
    here ...

    "I once had a girl" (had a relationship with) versus
    "she once had me" -- as in "she conned me" (had me over) due to him not
    getting any sex out of it, despite putting in the groundwork. Biding
    his time, as it were.

    The "met" version of the lyric (an early draft?) would not lead to that wordplay.
    --
    --------------------------------------+------------------------------------ Mike Brown: mjb[-at-]signal11.org.uk | http://www.signal11.org.uk

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  • From Jasen Betts@21:1/5 to Joe Gwinn on Thu Apr 28 19:51:51 2022
    On 2022-04-28, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
    On Wed, 27 Apr 2022 20:22:27 -0000 (UTC), Jasen Betts
    <usenet@revmaps.no-ip.org> wrote:

    On 2022-04-22, Joe Gwinn <joegwinn@comcast.net> wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 23:32:30 +0100, Clive Arthur >>><clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    On 21/04/2022 22:37, Dimiter_Popoff wrote:
    On 4/21/2022 22:01, John Larkin wrote:
    On Thu, 21 Apr 2022 10:13:23 +0100, Clive Arthur
    <clive@nowaytoday.co.uk> wrote:

    Isn't it God, Norwegian wod?

    Sloman corrects everyone's spelling but his own.

    I wish he'd research the difference between  its  and  it's.


    Forget the typo, what I though of was the song from
    "Rubber Soul"... :) May be he meant it.
    <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y_V6y1ZCg_8>

    Yes, a song about sexual frustration provoking arson.

    Teasing leading to furniture combustion in a fireplace.

    There wasn't a chair.

    I noticed that now as well, after the quote from a Beetle in the Wiki article.

    But I recall two versions of the lyrics, one saying "I once met a girl
    ...", the other saying that "I once had a girl ...", the difference
    being the implications of had versus met. This was always bothering
    me.

    Later, it came to me that the "had" story given in the Wiki didn't
    hold up:

    Had can also mean tricked, many 3 letter words are quite versitile.

    If the girl was already a mistress, there would not likely be any
    tease involved, and if her apartment had in fact been set alight,
    there would be no mystery as to who set the fire, or why for that
    matter, and we would have seen news reports of a real arson
    prosecution. Which never happened.

    It's probable that some of the story is fantasy... just like the
    Yellow Submarine and and Sergeant Pepper (etc)

    wiki says that the story is mostly John's but the arson was added by
    Paul.

    --
    Jasen.

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